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“Anonymous” File-Sharing Darknet Ruled Illegal by German Court

A court in Hamburg, Germany, has granted an injunction against a user of the anonymous and encrypted file-sharing network RetroShare . RetroShare users exchange data through encrypted transfers and the network setup ensures that the true sender of the file is always obfuscated. The court, however, has now ruled that RetroShare users who act as an exit node are liable for the encrypted traffic that’s sent by others.

anon pirateAnonymous file-sharing is booming. Whether it’s BitTorrent through a VPN, proxy, or other anonymizing services, people are increasingly looking to hide their identities online.

One application that gained interest earlier this year is RetroShare. Despite being actively developed for more than half a decade, its user-base suddenly increased tenfold in just a few months.

The RetroShare network allows people to create a private and encrypted file-sharing network. Users add friends by exchanging PGP certificates with people they trust. All the communication is encrypted using OpenSSL and files that are downloaded from strangers always go through a trusted friend.

In other words, it’s a true Darknet and virtually impossible to monitor by outsiders. At least, that’s the idea.

This week a Hamburg court ruled against a RetroShare user who passed on an encrypted transfer that turned out to be a copyrighted music file. The user in question was not aware of the transfer, and merely passed on the data in a way similar to how TOR works.

The court, however, ruled that the user in question, who was identified by the copyright holder, is responsible for passing on the encrypted song.

The judge ordered an injunction against the RetroShare user, who is now forbidden from transferring the song with a maximum penalty of €250,000 or a six month prison term. Since RetroShare traffic is encrypted this means that the user can no longer use the network without being at risk.

“The defendant is liable for the infringement of troublemakers,” the court explained in its ruling.

The Hamburg court’s decision goes quite far according to some legal experts. IT lawyer Thomas Stadler, for example, writes on his blog that the legal opinion is “quite risky” as it puts all users of RetroShare in danger.

“It ultimately accuses the offender of failing to secure his Internet connection by running RetroShare, and allowing other users of the RetroShare network to transfer copyright-protected works via his computer,” Stadler writes.

While the ruling is obviously a threat to RetroShare users, in part it’s also a human error by the user in question.

RetroShare derives its security from the fact that all transfers go through “trusted friends” who users themselves add. In this case, the defendant added the anti-piracy monitoring company as a friend, which allowed him to be “caught.”

More troubling is the precedent the ruling sets for people who run open wireless networks, as the same issues arise there. According to this ruling Internet subscribers are responsible for the transfers that take place on their networks, making them liable for the copyright infringements of others.

Update: Contrary to the U.S. and elsewhere, a previous ruling in Germany already makes wireless network operators liable for copyright infringements of others.

Update: Wilde Beuger Solmecke law firm told TorrentFreak that the ruling is “not compelling.”

“Exchanging data via Retroshare is not illegal as such. In contrast to many other file sharing websites, access to files to be exchanged can be restricted to selected friends and so these files are not offered to all users of the website. In such cases no copyright infringement occurs.”

“In my view, there is no evidence that copyright protected music has been made available to the general public. Although the firm Promedia’s investigations demonstrate that the respondent in this case offered a file via a file sharing website, these investigations are not conclusive of the fact that the said file was generally made available to the public. It is possible that Promedia posed as a “friend” of the respondent. The decision of LG Hamburg is not compelling.”


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  • cgimusic

    Unfortunate that people can actually be held liable for being couriers. Guess that means that post office worker that handled my death threat letter will have to be prosecuted as if he had written it.

    • Whatever

      Yes that would be it.

      However on the internet they should punish all the passing and offending devices. They should arrest the DSLAM (if user had DSL) it came from and went to. Then all the routers in between and take out the whole internet.

      I can be pretty sure that every router and cable used for the internet would be guilty of copying music files.

      • Dondilly

        It is interesting there seems to be an automatic assumption that where an ip address identifies an innocent account holder, it must be unsecured wifi.

        Aside from too many courts assuming the infallibility of IP address evidence, a once senior network engineer at Demon Internet in the UK, submitted an excellent expert written brief on the unreliability of IP evidence.

        One of the many points he made was that even assuming the IP address was correct, it could only get as far as the DSLAM in the telephone exhange. If the telco is providing broadband backhaul to multiple ISPs, anyone on any phoneline connect to the DSLAM could connect to any account. Any login credentials are dictated by the ISP where security is often limited to blocking multiple logins. Clearly any breach of security here is not down to the user.

        • chronoss

          thank god for the law in canada the way it is that this type a stupidity won’t be legal to make illegal….

        • http://twitter.com/PamelaMeyerso Pamela Meyerso

          @it’s a true Darknet and virtually impossible to monitor by outsiders. At least, that’s the idea. . http://youtube.qr.net/jNUN/watch?v=NMuze8T2Y5k

        • Guest

          flag the above as spam

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          The university of washington wrote a paper proving the same – once they noticed that their laser printers and network routers were receiving “cease-and-desist” notices in bulk.

          As I recall they came to the conclusion that even under the best of circumstances, ip adress notifications had a 13% error margin.

    • chronoss

      just send lots of donkey sex pics encrypted then say heres hte key
      hahaha each pic will have the words

      YOUR AN ASS
      on it

      • Biskit

        My an ass?

        • DSFARGEG

          It’s actually *our* an ass. Sharing is caring! :)

    • Badlaw

      Send the judge a file.

    • mary hinge

      the term, don’t shoot the messenger has some relevance here. however, in reality, messengers do get shot all the time. that still wont stop people from using the service

    • Chaz

      EVERYONE should use OpenDNS and DNS crypt, then no-one including even your ISP can monitor your browsing.

      Use PeerGuardian and a minor ISP. I’ve downloaded TERABYTES of music without hearing a dickeybird from the copyright molesters!!!!!

      For file sharing, set up groups of four or five people using the same IP address, making it IMPOSSIBLE for these wretched copyright companies (which incidentally make FORTUNES for their lawyers and directors and NO-ONE ELSE) to take ANY legal actions as they CANNOT PROVE who file-shared.

      All you have to do is share a connection (And broadband costs!) by laying a LAN cable between several houses.

      • Blah

        Then you will get sued by your ISP for violating TOS.

      • asdfwe

        PeerGuardian doesn’t do jack shit.

        • Badabup

          peer guardian is like using a condom with a crack whore. you’ll catch something eventually just maybe not this time.

      • Geri

        Terabytes? Did you, like, download every song in the world? My library’s only about 8 gigs in size, but that’s all I need so far.

        • Red John fjohn3141@yahoo.com.s

          Clearly, you don’t download lossless (e.g. FLAC).

          A typical FLAC-encoded album will be about 250-450MB in size. Even taking the lower end value, 8GB will be 32 albums. Is that your entire music collection?

          If Chaz was downloading FLAC files, then 1TB will correspond to “merely” 4000 albums. Not at all unreasonable. OK, he said Terabutes, plural. So maybe 10,000 albums. A big collection, but hardly “every song in the world”.

          Get with the times, most serious downloaders use FLAC nowadays because that’s as perfect as you can get. Once you have FLAC, you can transcode it to a lossy file at whatever quality you choose.

      • Guest

        They still see your connections to IP addresses straight out of your ISP’s network, which OpenDNS cannot ever prevent, your ISP may even have sophisticated logging software which resolves those IPs back to hostnames to log the actual sites instead of arbitrary IP addresses.

        the only way to truly hide your activities, is to use a VPN or SSH tunnel or even Tor.

        • Guest

          I forgot to add, They may even have DPI logging so they can still see what websites you’re requesting even though you’re using OpenDNS or Level3 DNS

  • flo

    It’s the court in Hamburg… Most of their “known” work gets appealed and overturned. Most copyright infringement cases are initially fought there, because the court is known to be very friendly to copyright holders.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Excellent info flo, thanks.

      Coz my initial thought to this stupid and awful Court decision is that it MUST be appealed against.on a number of different grounds for appeal too.

      And cgimusic also makes an important point that could even be used as one of the many grounds of appeal.

      Clearly this judge is a child-whipping animal who picks on his own cerebral palsy affected daughter -
      http://torrentfreak.com/texas-child-beating-p2p-hating-judge-reinstated-121109/

  • http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire

    Won’t this also have implications for TOR?

    • http://twitter.com/kejsarmakten Christopher Käck

      It will. And open wifi’s. All sorts of proxies, ISPs, hosting and sharing services. If you can’t forward something without being legaly responsible for the content you break the internet.

      • Anon

        “If you can’t forward something without being legaly responsible for the content you break the internet.”

        No you don’t. That’s bullsh*t. Just grow up, cut the crap and start being accountable to the things you do online and we won’t have any more trouble.

        • Anyone

          how could he have known what he was transmitting? it was encrypted

          this ruling has to be overturned, or you’d really break the internet
          or at least destroy all internet companies in germany

        • Guest

          Anon is clueless about how the internet works. I am so surprised.

          If forwarding something illegal made a service legally responsible then ISPs would be sued out of existence in about 2 seconds flat. So would web hosts. Email providers. IM networks.

          In short, yes, goodbye internet.

          Maybe you should grow up instead of wallowing in your own ignorance.

        • Who

          hm…now Anon thinks this is bullshit. LOL YOU need to grow up are realize that the court system’s are corrupted.

        • Guest

          In that case, I suppose we can sue your ISP out of existence.

        • Jmorse43508

          Clueless, ignorant troll.

          Nothing to see here whatsoever.

          Why continue to troll on what is a pro filesharing blog when only 2 or 3 others believe what you are saying or have the same opinions? You’re just bloviating.

        • IDIOCRACY

          That means that according to you, everyone his computer that is infected with a trojan or part of a botnet without knowing it, are accountable for the cybercrimes (hacks, creditcard data theft and use etc. etc.) done with that botnet.

          That also means that when your computer receives an mail with a virus, and this virus spreads using your computer to email it to others, (like an old-fashion virus) you are responsible for the damages.

          That also means that the suspected homo guy in IRAN that risks being shot for just being a homo, cannot use this and TOR anymore when sending info to Germany or any other country that makes the anonymous networks effectively illegal. Does the word STASI ring some bells, I guess it does for the Germans.

          You are so full of s**t when you burp you smell and taste the s**t coming up.
          Go somewhere else making a fool of yourself, really you have obviously no idea how much you look like a moron posting something utterly wrong and idiotic like this..hehe

        • Guest

          “Being accountable”? Said the guy who goes under a pseudonym, supports unverified information harvesting technology, ignores the fact that his heroes sues the wrong people more often than not, and constantly lies through his mouth, ears and all form of bodily orifices. Which is it, Anon? More online freedoms for all, or less so you can catch more 9-year-olds? Pirates have been breaking more law or less law in the last five or ten years? Make up your damn mind!

        • Superflyfishyguy

          That’s an irresponsible statement to make, to tell someone to “grow up”. At some point in the future, many of the companies paying you to hunt down people that file share will stop employing you, because they will realise that the cost to pay you is far more expensive.

          Furthermore, companies like EMI will become surplus to requirement for ‘new’ music distribution, because bands and artists will be giving their music away for free in downloadable format, thus making music on a CD obsolete. Artists and bands can earn their living from touring, and in doing so will retain all their own rights, instead of signing them away to corporate USA. Therefore, reducing EMI and those alike to the status of a ‘back catalogue’, whereby fewer and fewer will access due to already possessing what they need.

          There is reason to speculate that Hollywood will one day embrace the internet, by using this medium to distribute their releases. In doing, this will mean replacing or cutting out much of the traditional distribution and delivery chain and much of the associated costs will be saved. It is hoped that the end user will be asked for a fair price, if Hollywood do choose a route similar to that described, for example a $2 dollar viewing. It is more than possible that copying will still take place, especially in countries whose economies only provide for an estimated working wage of $20per week. However, the income from a global audience at $2 per viewing via the internet for the latest blockbuster is a perceived reasonable solution to maintain the film industry. The film industry and ‘actors’ should address their salaries. Are the ‘actors’ truly worth paying millions upon millions of dollars? The man or woman working 42hrs a week works just as hard as any other person who holds down a job, and it’s fair to assume that those who work 42hrs a week will never see a million $.

          The ‘industries’ should identify the GREED and do away with the greed, and begin to implement a better pricing structures for the Global market place. If this were to be the case, then it is likely that those who are hunted down for being illegal file sharers wouldn’t mind contributing a dollar or two to those industries for a one time viewing. The idea that we as members of society need to store an retain a physical copy of something is heading to a relic like status.

          Television Broadcasters could follow suit by a Global Audience to access their ‘media players’ through a small contributory charge, rather than seeking to be GREEDY through re- selling the programme rights whose costs have perhaps been subsidised through a nation of licence payers. The notion of having to pay up to $80 a month to subscribe to a satellite service is tantamount to mugging the subscriber, because the cost does not justify what can actually be watched in a month’s subscription to what is actually watched. Therefore, surely a better solution for the viewer is to pay for what you watch than being provided with an extensive garbage filled library of television.

          The result and not a cure, is to bring about change for the better. Democratic Governments are meant to serve the people not dictate on behalf of GREEDY Corporations. No good comes from criminalising people who are simply hard working, decent conforming members of society whose votes are required come election time. Established musicians need to review their own dealings, and perhaps consider not re-signing to the ‘record label’, and take charge of their own music. Music fans should encourage their favourite bands to distribute their own music. For music fans should demand more outdoor Summer Festivals, and indoors Winter Concerts.

          So you see MR.’coypright infringement chasing’ ANON, it is not the people of the internet that need to ‘grow up’, it is for the ‘industries’ to embrace change.

        • AnonIsAFail

          At least READ the article! You did not even read “it was about encrypted traffic” did you; and there you go spouting off about not using the internet for crimes and everyone has to be responsible YAWN. Off topic trolling = ultimate fail.

        • chronoss

          no it isnt when people wake up and realize this ruling affects every one including business then insurance also picks up and raises rates and you get a net cost affect of things being way more expensive and then there is the cost to detect it.

          IF i were these guys id stop file sharing and just send tons of encrypted “hello world” messages and make the govt eat shit and die

        • Lord of the Files

          What Anon really meant to say was, “Just grow up, cut the crap and start being accountable to the things everyone else does online and we won’t have any more trouble.”

          To which I say, ok! That is, of course, so long as absolutely everyone, from the richest multi-national corporations of the world all the way down to the lowliest, most insignificant user, like Anon here, agrees to follow that same advice and live with the resulting consequences without complaint no matter what they may be. Sound good, Anon?

        • nostrafarious

          Hey! Wipe your lips after felching the RIAA’s third eye. There’s some smelly brown liquid dripping from the corners of your mouth.

        • Wallace

          “No you don’t. That’s bullsh*t. Just”

          The greatest troll post of all time.

          Only copyright maximalists are ignorant and arrogant enough to actually post “I’m so right I don’t have to state my case.” Creationists say why they’re creationists. Anti-abortionists say why. Even racists say why. Not this lot.

          It’s almost like the point of being pro-copyright is to argue for something you know is wrong.

          And the same four likes Anon always gets. Hmm. They must all know him personally.

        • Ssblacks

          Anon ur an ignorant person. (or maybe ur related to anti-piracy people, somehow)
          (Maybe the MPAA, or RIAA)

        • Guest

          Do you know how networks work???

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          He could not have known what he was passing on. On a side note this means German users will not be able to use Tor in order to support government dissidents living in hellholes since NO person will be able to offer a 3rd party an encrypted connection.

          In this case, we’ll have to wait until the German supreme court challenges this ruling. And generally speaking, in cases such as these, where fundamental privacy and free speech is concerned, the local courts always become overturned in higher instances.

      • chronoss

        and then people stop spending on it and then the cell phones they use and suddenly it goes really dark as in sneakernet

      • http://ax11.myopenid.com/ Tom

        Not sure. Not even very likely.
        . Don’t mix up US/UK jurisdiction with the German one, which is fundamentally different in the way preliminary judgement is handled. Also the court in the article was not a revision or federal court, so it’s not normative in any way. The Hamburg court is frequently chosen as a first instance in similar case due to another particular German thing – but somebody up the thread explained that a lot better, than I could.

    • Nodelay

      Yes, all the FBI exit nodes will be liable. ;)

    • john doe

      @MAFIAAFire:

      Yes, and next will be VPNs. And that’s why ALL VPNs have logs.
      No small company wants to risk being held accountable.

      • Guest

        Don’t spread FUD. Many VPNs don’t keep logs.

        • EricPost

          Well they say they don’t.

      • Guest

        ya right any decent company would not risk their users like you describe.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        You obviously don’t know how a VPN operates or under what liability.

        This ruling will be overturned as in essence what it does is it legislates the internet out of existence. Say “fare-thee-well” to PGP and https if this one stands.

    • Hogspace

      C’mon this is the 4th Reich, TOR is incompatible.

  • Boy

    “RetroShare derives its security from the fact that all transfers go through “trusted friends” who users themselves add. In this case, the defendant added the anti-piracy monitoring company as a friend, which allowed him to be “caught.””

    lol this will never happen to me. I only give trust to my 1430 Facebook friends. Want to get added?

    • Kalgodric

      yes please….what do i need to do?

      • Guest22

        offer ‘Boy’ a packet of sweets with a cheeky smile…..

    • Guest

      Boy is joking. Obviously he doesn’t know his 1430 Facebook “friends”. So he will get caught the same way.

    • chronoss

      and through all the federal routers that copy everything and htus they want no ecnryption so they can spy on your pics of you wiping your ass in the bathroom

  • homo

    All those running Tor exit nodes in Germany prepare that lube.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      No, more like they will challenge this ruling in a SANER court and get the ruling overturned.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Yes, because – perhaps not so oddly – in Germany it’s a rule rather than an exception that the higher courts are more aware of the constitutional law than are the lower ones.

        And this ruling more or less guts the German constitution if it’s allowed to stand. It’s pretty clear cut.

  • wcg

    I have to think this is a tactic to scare users. I have used Retroshare and it works ok and wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. Any system like this only works when you add people you know and trust to your network.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      RShare/Stealthnet is a pretty decent network. Slower than popular torrents, but all in all it’s a nice retro-feel of KazaaLite over it.

  • Guest

    I guess its all about control and the MAFFIA will no doubt applauding this ruling. If this ruling stands on appeal then the MAFFIA will no doubt use this to make MEGA responsible for the transfer of encryption of copyright files of its users.

    • Red John fjohn3141@yahoo.com.s

      MAFIAA. Not MAFFIA. But I agree with you.

  • Guest

    German Court ruling ruled futile by Internet.

  • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

    “RetroShare derives its security from the fact that all transfers go through “trusted friends” who users themselves add. In this case, the defendant added the anti-piracy monitoring company as a friend, which allowed him to be “caught.””

    No matter what technology that is used – people will get caught when breaking the law. And you’re always responsible for your actions, even when you’re only passively participating in a transfer between two other persons through your client.

    • http://profiles.google.com/pianogamer Knut Harald

      Yeah, lets shut down these post offices!

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        No need to, post offices is a completely different matter.

        • Guest

          No they are not, A post office is a courier service just like retroshare.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Guest

          “A post office is a courier service just like retroshare.”

          The courier service through the post office is protected by laws. But there are also terms & conditions and laws regarding use of the post office for sending illegal goods. The police can open letters or parcels on suspicion.

          Retroshare has no such protection by law, neither has it an incentive to follow the law through terms and conditions the user must agree on, or having the possibility for the police to look into whats being transferred on suspicion.

          You want it to be the same but it’s not.

        • tonyj

          Post offices are government institutions, to say they are govern by law is, well, duh!
          But his point, baring a legal order to open a mailed container, is no one can see inside a box or an envelope as it is delivered, the postman is not held accountable for delivering the material.

        • Plix

          You still try to please yourself, right?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          The point is that it is not. The post office, just like the user described above, transmits a package which can contain literally anything without asking questions as to the content.

          The above ruling actually makes running an ISP illegal. To begin with. Indeed, even using a mail server with PGP enabled falls under the same category.

          And that is why this ruling will be overturned in the next instance.

    • Fredrika

      > “No matter what technology that is used – people will get caught when breaking the law.”

      No, not when using the software properly, which this user clearly didn’t.

      > “And you’re always responsible for your actions, even when you’re only passively participating in a transfer between two other persons through your client.”

      Please don’t comment on what the laws say around the globe, when you know nothing about that, ok?

      Do you remember when you made a fool of yourself a few years ago, when you refused to accept that all non-profit filesharing of copyrighted works was legal in Spain, based purely on your wishes regarding how things should be? Do you want a link to that dicsussion?

      Where you initially claimed with out most certainty that you were right. But in the end you had to admit that you had no idea what you were talking about.

      How is this any difference? You don’t even know what the copyright law in your own country says, ffs, which you proved the other day when you stated that filesharing of copyrighted works is illegal, when in fact the legal status can’t be determined by those premisses alone.

      • Passerby

        Does Anon == Nejtillpirater?
        Seems like it since he cant even come up with a proper argument against you, lol.

        • Fredrika

          > “Does Anon == Nejtillpirater?”

          No. Although their ignorance is similar, so the guess isn’t that far fetched.

          > “Seems like it since he cant even come up with a proper argument against you..”

          That goes for all ignorant copyright monopoly fanatics.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          I doubt it. Anon comes around to TF just about when “Jack Murdock” gives up and goes away. Both carry the same message and the same rhetoric.

          NTP on the other hand is a fairly well known swedish pro-copyright fanatic who has been trolling swedish pirate boards with the exact same message as “Anon” has for four years – and with about the same amount of facts, which is to say “none”.

          NTP’s normal approach when confronted with empirical data however, is to reply with a wordwall consisting of a straw man, one guilt-by-association argument, and a cry of “ad hominem” which to him appears to mean “factual refutal”. “Anon”, when confronted with fact simply tends to go away and spam another subthread.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        “No, not when using the software properly, which this user clearly didn’t.”

        Well, actually he probably was using the software properly. The problem being that what the ruling of law in this case says is that carrying a sealed package from place A to place B makes the carrier or conduit responsible for the contents of the package.

        In short, the ruling explicitly outlaws the post office and any form of common carrier or conduit.

        It’s to be expected from a lower court which does not realize or investigate the ramification of the case but any higher court must overturn this ruling.

        So Nejtillpirater is even more wrong than even you claim today. 8)

    • Guest

      “No matter what technology that is used – people will get caught when breaking the law.”

      Yeah! Uh, well, except for all the users of RetroShare who don’t add some MAFIAA thug as their trusted friend. And except for the millions upon millions of filesharers who will never be caught because it’s logistically impossible to catch that many people.

      “And you’re always responsible for your actions,”

      Except for when your decentralized P2P client automatically transfers a file without any of your knowledge whatsoever. Actually, in that case it isn’t even your action.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “Except for when your decentralized P2P client automatically transfers a file without any of your knowledge whatsoever. Actually, in that case it isn’t even your action.”

        It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic, the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack is. Using the DHT technology, bittorrent users are even taking part in the distribution of child porn. It doesn’t happen just because you don’t see it.

        • Freedom of Speech

          CP should be legal too. See falkvinge(dot)net.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          “CP should be legal too. See falkvinge(dot)net.”

          That opinion forced him to resign as leader of the Swedish Pirate Party. But at least he can be honest about it now.

        • Guest

          “It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic”

          Yes it does. If it’s automatic then I have no control over it, if I have no control over it then it’s not my action, and if it’s not my action then it’s not my responsibility. Lrn2logic.

          “the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack”

          No, the user is “responsible” in the same way as somebody who has had their PC zombified and unknowingly takes part in a DDOS attack. In otherwords, they’re really not responsible for it at all.

          “Using the DHT technology, bittorrent users are even taking part in the distribution of child porn. “

          LOL. Dragging out the childporn strawman.

          Using food and water, pedophiles are able to sustain themselves and continue their evil childmolesting ways!1! WE HAEV TO BAN FOOD AND WATER YOU GUYS!!!11!

        • Anyone

          “That opinion forced him to resign as leader of the Swedish Pirate Party.”

          he has resigned as that a long time before that (January 2011, to be precise)
          but facts aren’t your strong suit, we know that

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “he has resigned as that a long time before that (January 2011, to be precise)
          but facts aren’t your strong suit, we know that”

          His epic fail regarding legalizing child porn was in August 2010. After that he tried with “I was wrong” but it was too late. He was forced to resign in January 2011, in this case your facts were OK but not otherwise.

        • Fredrika

          > “His epic fail..”

          Having the same opinon as the Swedish journalist association is epic fail?

          > “After that he tried with “I was wrong” but it was too late.”

          That is a false quotation, and he did not say anything along those lines. Please stop with your history revisionism.

          > “He was forced to resign in January 2011..”

          He stepped down to the date five years after he started the party, a date which he had set in stone many years before. The date was well known within the party and had been so for several years, and the training of the successor had already been in the works for over a year by August 2010.

          But why stick to the facts when you can prove your dishonesty by making false allegations and resorting to slander? You do have a reputation to uphold.

        • Anyone

          his article was in September this year
          I wasn’t aware that he said something about it before, so consider me enlightened

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “I wasn’t aware that he said something about it before, so consider me enlightened”

          You’re welcome.

          His epic fail through the radio interview and another interview where he then said that he was wrong is available here:

          http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=3899644

          Fredrika is lying, he actually said “We was wrong”, and then clarified that the meaning was that *he* was wrong.

          If you understand Swedish, you’ll find the interviews rather amusing.

        • Fredrika

          > “Fredrika is lying, he actually said “We was wrong”, and then clarified that the meaning was that *he* was wrong.”

          No, you’re still the one lying. He said neither of those. And please stop trying to simplify what he said, when you in the process completely change what he actually said.

          If you have a problem understanding anything of what he actually said during that time period, please quote his actual statement, and i will help you read it properly.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          You’re having a problem when you delete a thread exposing your lies and then posting new text that explains your false view without making it possible to check what was really stated by me or you. Obviously truth is of no interest to you, only spreading your propaganda.

        • Fredrika

          > “You’re having a problem..”

          Which i haven’t any.

          > “..when you delete a thread..”

          Which i haven’t done.

          > “..exposing your lies and then posting new text that explains your false view without making it possible to check what was really stated by me or you.”

          Are you stupid? Every single comment regarding your lies about what Rick had said is still there? Look with your eyes? Would you like me to quote and link every single one in order? Ok then.

          1. The initial comment from Freedom Of Speech, where he mentioned Rick’s personal opinion:

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717659486

          > “CP should be legal too. See falkvinge(dot)net.”

          2. Your initial response where you started to lie about his opinion being why he left the party:

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717664681

          > That opinion forced him to resign as leader of the Swedish Pirate Party.”

          3. Your second comment where you continued to lie by making up false quotations:

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717675334

          > “His epic fail regarding legalizing child porn was in August 2010. After that he tried with “I was wrong” but it was too late. He was forced to resign in January 2011, in this case your facts were OK but not otherwise.”

          4. My first response where i pointed out that you lied about the entire process:

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717682182

          > “Having the same opinon as the Swedish journalist association is epic fail?”

          > “That is a false quotation, and he did not say anything along those lines. Please stop with your history revisionism.”

          > “He stepped down to the date five years after he started the party, a date which he had set in stone many years before. The date was well known within the party and had been so for several years, and the training of the successor had already been in the works for over a year by August 2010.”

          > “But why stick to the facts when you can prove your dishonesty by making false allegations and resorting to slander? You do have a reputation to uphold.”

          I never received an answer to the questions btw.

          5. Another one of your comments where you continued to lie about Rick’s opinion, and now you also started to lie about me. My response is directly underneath as a reply to the comment it actually responds to. Unlike you i always place my replies correctly placed as responses to the correct comment.

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717717422

          > “..Rick Falkvinge has gone back to his previous opinion since he was forced to leave the party.”

          6. Your final comment, which you edited and inserted your incorrect translation into later, where after i also edited my comment but unlike you clearly mentioned that it was edited, putting the edited added part after the initial response.

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717693055

          7. My final response where i, after i had added more text to respond to your edited comment, pointed out that the entire interview was about the Pirate Parties political manifestos and the changing of them, and Ricks opinion on what the Party’s opinion should be, unlike his personal opinion which was what was initially discussed, which was what you lied about:

          http://torrentfreak.com/anonymous-file-sharing-ruled-illegal-by-german-court-121123/#comment-717695670

          Nothing has been deleted.

          > “Obviously truth is of no interest to you..”

          On the contrary that exactly is of interest to me which was why i pointed out what you had lied about, and in great detail explained it.

          > “..only spreading your propaganda.”

          Your projecting. Not one single one of my claims constitutes of propaganda, every single claim can be verified unlike yours. If you have a problem understanding what i write about, please quote the relevant text, an ask for help, and i will help you read it properly so that you can understand what it actually says, and why it is indeed correct exactly as it is written.

        • Anyone

          I don’t speak any Swedish, so the quotes are useless to me
          I don’t trust you enough to provide a translation ;)

          in any case, if he said that he was wrong back then, he now again holds the position that possession of childporn should be legal, a view that I share

          sadly, this is such a toxic topic, because of “think of the children” religious nuts and the copyright mafia piggybacking this issue, that it is hard to have a real discussion about this

          censorship is never acceptable, no matter what is being censored, and in the case of childporn the victims of that agree with me (and Rick)
          so by supporting a ban on childporn you are actually hurting the victims

        • Fredrika

          > “I don’t speak any Swedish, so the quotes are useless to me
          I don’t trust you enough to provide a translation ;)”

          I didn’t see his edited comment with the quotes from the interview until now, and you where right in not trusting him one bit, because he both translated it incorrectly, cut out relevant parts and most importantly completely misinterpreted what the interview actually referred to. I have edited my comment as well now and clarified the interview.

          Nej’s initial statements regarding Rick’s opinions, and what they lead to, are still lies.

          > “sadly, this is such a toxic topic, because of “think of the children” religious nuts and the copyright mafia piggybacking this issue, that it is hard to have a real discussion about this”

          Not with intelligent rational people.

        • IDIOCRACY

          I think the reason why this was said is totally ripped out of context. The whole reason for legalizing the CP possession is because the law can be to easily misused with the CP as an argument.
          And when a law can be misused you should perfect it, Rick just thought it would be the most easy perfection to legalize the possession so it would not be misused again and the material already exists anyway. So the possession is not harmful to kids, (same like porn does not make people rape another… otherwise porn would be illegal too) …the making however.. that should be punished by 20 years jail in solitary and permanent castration and sterilization of all offenders.
          So please next time tell the whole story, maybe people will actually respect you (that does not mean they agree with you). hehe

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “I don’t trust you enough to provide a translation”

          I have no reason to lie and I don’t do that. I linked to the interviews, anyone speaking Swedish can verify the correctness. (Perhaps except of Fredrika since she’s unwilling to admit that she lied)

          “in any case, if he said that he was wrong back then, he now again holds the position that possession of childporn should be legal, a view that I share”

          Agreed, Rick Falkvinge has gone back to his previous opinion since he was forced to leave the party. There were to many members of the party that disagreed, in fact it was almost impossible to even make some of them understand that he had said that possession of child porn should be legal.

          “censorship is never acceptable, no matter what is being censored, and in the case of childporn the victims of that agree with me (and Rick)
          so by supporting a ban on childporn you are actually hurting the victims”

          “The victims of that agree”? That’s a lie or maybe wishful thinking. Seems like you’re the person “ForskarGurra”, the only one that has repeatedly stated on my blog that the victims of child porn wish to have the photos and movies spread on the Internet, which is completely insane.

        • Fredrika

          > “I have no reason to lie and I don’t do that.”

          Reason or not you lie continuously.

          > “I linked to the interviews, anyone speaking Swedish can verify the correctness.”

          The interviews does not corroborate the lies you put forward. What’s said in the interviews is something completely different. Again, please quote the statement which you believes corroborates your claim, and i will help you read them properly, and explain why they’re not the same as what you claimed.

          > “Agreed, Rick Falkvinge has gone back to his previous opinion..”

          No, he has never changed his opinion, that’s another one of your lies. His opinion has been the same all along, which just happens to be same thought trough opinion as that of the Swedish Journalist Association and several pother legal referral organisations, an opinion which is backed by scientific evidence and the police’s child porn head investigator.

          The only one’s that don’t agree with this opinion are those irrational ignorant selfish idiots that wants the law to pleasure their personal subjective lusts, before actually helping children.

          > “..since he was forced to leave the party.”

          Which he wasn’t, that’s another one of your lies.

          > “”The victims of that agree”? That’s a lie or maybe wishful thinking.”

          It is not. It is the clearly stated opinion of the worlds only organisation for child abuse survivors, Mogis, a rational thought trough opinion which is backed by all the scientific research that has been done on what’s best helps the children.

          > “..that the victims of child porn wish to have the photos and movies spread on the Internet, which is completely insane.”

          Are you to ignorant to understand that there is a clear fundamental difference between wanting them to be spread opposing a ban on possession of child porn, which was the only discussed topic? Unless one’s brain hasn’t completely shut down, that difference is rather obvious.

        • Anyone

          @NTP
          I never was on your blog, I wasn’t even aware that you had one, nor do I care

          anyway, you can read about that group of abuse victims here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MissbrauchsOpfer_Gegen_InternetSperren
          or if you speak german: http://mogis-verein.de/

          they don’t want their images and videos spread across the internet, but the alternative of hiding them and thus protecting the abusers is simply the worse choice

          so yes, possession of childporn should be legal, and instead of hunting people that stumble upon that, the people responsible for raping children should be persecuted.

        • Passerby

          ” the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack is.”

          @nej
          Obviously you know nothing. Including what a Ddos attack is.
          No wonder your constantly making a fool of yourself

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Passerby

          “Obviously you know nothing. Including what a Ddos attack is.
          No wonder your constantly making a fool of yourself”

          Based on what?

          You can either participate in a DDOS attack without knowing it, through an infected computer, or by installing software deliberately for this. Those who do it deliberately have a responsibility, they’re committing a crime, at least according to the Swedish law (DDOS attacks goes under the same law as data intrusion).

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          “You can either participate in a DDOS attack without knowing it, through an infected computer, or by installing software deliberately for this. Those who do it deliberately have a responsibility, they’re committing a crime”

          As stated by many before the transfer of files that are supposedly “infringing”, are through an encrypted connection, by your definition is the same as taking part in the activity without knowing it, therefore they do not have responsibility over whats being transferred, you said so yourself.

          by the way a DDoS and Mass DOS (such as LOIC) are two different things. In a DDoS, participants are also victims, by YOUR definition they should also be Tried for data intrusion, when they are unknowingly attacking a target.

        • Violated0

          It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic, the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack is.

          Maybe you are not aware that any reasonably good hacker can break into your computer using any number of thousands of security holes and then without your knowledge install a 5k proxy task on your system.

          If they want to go a bit further then they can certainly bounce lots of encrypted data off of your connection. Hell even share it with their friend and friends of friends to bounce shit loads of encrypted data for infringing files.

          So here you are only knowing that your connection is being a bit slow where you claim you should be punished for transferring encrypted data that you did not know was infringing. I think not but sure blame the weakest link.

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          @Violated
          thank you for posting that i was trying to edit my post to to fix it, but discus is being a bitch.

        • polsenpol

          Are you being paid for writing that idiotic garbage or are you being stupid for free ??

        • Guest

          “It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic, the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack is. Using the
          DHT technology, bittorrent users are even taking part in the distribution of child porn. It doesn’t happen just because you don’t see it.

          No, the user is not responsible. You surely don’t understand how the criminal law operates.

          In all civilized nations, mens rea as to all elements constituting the criminal offense is legally required.
          Even possession, distribution and transmission of child pornography is subject to the requirement that the defendant must have known the contents. Otherwise, child pornography is transformed into a strict liability crime.

          Copyright infringement is no strict liability crime, and given the way the internet and computers work imposition of strict liability for transmission of something you have no possibility to verify is absurd.

          You can’t be held responsible for something you can’t verify. The judge is surely an idiot. We should all send him some encrypted dummy files which might contain CP. If he keeps them, he can later be held responsible for CP possession.
          This is the logical outcome of such a silly ruling.

        • Pelham123

          “It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic, the user is still responsible”

          According to you, maybe. But you are not the law, God, or a sensible person. Rapists think their victims are responsible for being raped. Thinking that doesn’t make it so.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          The rapist is solely responsible for the rape, just as the pirate is solely responsible for the illegal action and not the victim (the creator and/or the “copyright industry”).

          At least we agree on that the victim has no responsibility for the illegal action.

        • Fredrika

          > “The rapist is solely responsible for the rape, just as the pirate is solely responsible for the illegal action and not the victim (the creator and/or the “copyright industry”).”

          Why not respond to what he actually wrote, and the fact that you incorrectly stated that an unknowingly automatic intermediary(which never is the same thing as a pirate) is responsible for a civil matter that someone else does completely out of his sight or control?

          According to the law, they aren’t.

          > “At least we agree on that the victim has no responsibility for the illegal action.”

          The problem is that you don’t understand the victim concept, and that there is no victim in connection to legislative monopolies, and intrusions into them.

        • Thomas Shaddack

          Then the telcos are responsible as well, as the data flow through their infrastructure. What’s the principial difference between a network router passing data from point A to point B, and a P2P client doing exactly the same?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          “What’s the principial difference between a network router passing data from point A to point B, and a P2P client doing exactly the same?”

          A network router doesn’t know anything about the traffic being routed, and in most cases the company/organization that owns and administers the router assumes that it’s being used legally, according to terms and conditions agreed on for all parties using it, like ISPs and ISP account owners.

          A person running a P2P client knows and often doesn’t even care that it’s being used to support piracy, though own downloading, seeding or just passing data on to another downloader of some illegal content. The person running that P2P client don’t give a damn about laws, terms and conditions.

        • Anyone

          running a P2P router is legal
          so why do you assume that everyone is using it for illegal activity?

        • Guest

          If I pay for someone to do a job, I fund their lifestyle which may include hurting children. You going to say I’d be responsible for that??? STFU!

        • Davecrawford606

          still voting up yr own comments under different aliases?what a cunt

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          I don’t. Must be very hard for pirates to see that other people like my comments.

        • Fredrika

          > “I don’t.”

          You do, would you like me to provide you with links to a couple of your different profiles?

          http://disqus.com/guest/dc0869fcbf95a942f6557efce336e481/

          http://disqus.com/guest/203657f7583f3a7a0d577ab88e687eb6/

          http://disqus.com/guest/6165afc3dfe762b76199efe739a245a8/

          Do you want more links?

          > “Must be very hard for pirates to see that other people like my comments.”

          If five different copyright trolls continuously likes each others comments, nobody cares about that.

        • Derpina

          Wrong.

          “It doesn’t matter if it’s automatic, the user is still responsible in the same way as a person that willingly participates in a DDOS attack is.”

          Except knowingly engaging in a DDoS _is_ illegal in itself, while knowingly engaging in a P2P network and passing off unknown encrypted messages between peers is NOT illegal (it itself), regardless of your little fantasies.

          Furthermore, in lots of countries, as you should probably know, even openly and willingly infringing copyright is not illegal in itself, if done on a personal level.

          Your point was…?

        • Guest

          your still wrong anon/jack murdock/beaky buzzard/whatever.

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      Actually.

      Maybe in Germany, where apparently there is no such thing as “burden of proof”, but not in the US, Canada, most other nations. There, copyright infringement depends on your intention. If you didn’t know you were transferring copyrighted material, you simply cannot have intended to infringe. QED.

      • Anyone

        in germany there is burden of proof
        just not when it comes to copyright infringement, that’s why trolls prosper there

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          I’m sure you’re right. It’s just that all the news we hear here about the German courts make me choke on my own indignance

    • 3erd847cgh8y4g

      “No matter what technology that is used – people will get caught when breaking the law.”
      Even drone operators?
      I don’t think so.
      Some life you must have, trolling for attention, choosing your words wisely, advocating child-rape.
      You are a horrible piece of shit, your parents should be ashamed of how you turned out.
      Encryption should not be made illegal.
      Do you suggest making whispers illegal too?
      Who knows what they’re saying? They could be terrorists.
      Oppressive governments despise this technology, and me and you both are oppressed.
      Wikileaks would not exist if they had their way. If you had your way.
      It’s bigger than you child.
      The day you regret your decisions and stance will be the day when there is no going back.
      Are you happy with the way of the world?

    • joexxx

      In this case, you’re also passively responsible since you’re discussing it.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        Not at all.

    • Me

      “And you’re always responsible for your actions, even when you’re only passively participating in a transfer between two other persons through your client.”

      Which is exactly what the post office does; passively transferring between two other persons through their client.

      The only difference is that they are protected by law and RetroShare are punished by law – for doing the exact same thing. The post office does not provide any terms and conditions anyone agrees to when sending a letter, either through contract, click through agreement or license.

      The difference in legal treatment is not a difference between the actions, but a difference in how the law treats the actions. It is unjust, unjustified and oppressive, and will therefore ultimately fall. Right now it’s causing harm.

    • Ssblacks

      Hey Nejtillpirater, ru related to Anon or u just like the RIAA a lot????
      Moron…..

      • SomeYahoo

        i think they’re paid to shill troll this site by the MAFIAA

    • Guest

      he didn’t break any law, he can share what he wants, and YOU just have to learn to like it.

  • Violated0

    This is a very stupid ruling that should be appealed.

    All this Judge did was to conclude that file sharing was unlawful and it needs to be shut down on the hub it appeared which ignores the uploader, storage and much more. Totally stupid when the traffic was encrypted so he had no idea what was being transferred which removes the wilful aspect.

    Well if they want to start attacking the links then ISPs would be first in line there where they would apply under the same line carrier concept. Why not go all the way and blame the electronics including hubs and routers? Blame the physical cables and fibre optic light for carrying the infringing signal. We know all these evil technicians conspired to defraud the MAFIAA right? Right? Anyone?

    Getting back to reality then this is the type of ruling that does need to be fought hard when over the next few years much of the Internet will encrypt making such a ruling an attack on the very infrastructure of the Internet. People under the law are allowed their privacy and anonymity but that fails if your encrypted nodes get shut down for the mere act of… transferring encrypted data.

  • Ebaumsworld thinks you suck

    So basically Retroshare is only as god as the idiots who share it, like this guy.

  • Greg

    I honestly don’t understand this stuff. Why do people trust a “justice system” like this? Why do they support it? What’s wrong with you people? Every time I read a title like “Court ruled” or “Judge says” I’m thinking: Who gives a flying fuck. Seriously. Are you all brain dead? Can none of you think for yourself? What drives you to accept bullshit like this from some random old fart? Furthermore, why do you keep supporting it? Are you all just too dumb to do something about it or is it just social stigma that makes you accept it? Do you really think this is how the world should be? Sometimes I really think that the world is populated by brainless sheep that do nothing but do what the majority does.

    • 1933

      Our Great Grandparents asked the same thing in 1933.

      • root@paypal.co.uk

        that would be my grandparents, junior.

      • joexxx

        Sadly, Germany is heading in the direction again more and more.

    • History

      Rise of Hitler: Hitler Becomes Dictator of Germany
      http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm

      Hitler Becomes Dictator. After the elections of March 5, 1933, the Nazis began a systematic takeover of the state governments throughout Germany.

      History Repeats Itself: The Ultimate Truth

  • Anon

    Pirates are making very clear they will not stop unlawful activity online until the government seriously f*cks the network up with surveillance. So sad. So stupid. So greedy and so selfish. The world is noticing.

    • Fredrika

      > “Pirates are making very clear they will not stop unlawful activity online until the government seriously f*cks the network up with surveillance.”

      Which still doesn’t work, ask China, where 60% of the Internet connected citizens fileshare illegally without problems.

      > “So sad. So stupid. So greedy and so selfish.”

      Trying to stop piracy yes. Ruining society for a non-problem, because a few weak useless failed entrepreneurs can’t make any sales of useless products that hold no economical value.

      > “The world is noticing.”

      Remind me, in the parliament of the worlds biggest economy, what did the only growing parliamentarian group do? Did they, or did they not, adopt the Pirate Party’s political program on copyright, including legalised filesharing?

      • Anon

        Like I said. Childish, warped reality.
        There’s one person left in the world who clings to the sad belief that this burgeoning governmental and court response isn’t because of internet piracy and thus is not piracy’s fault. lol Meet the condescending adolescent who argues that unlawful activity must be permitted and even facilitated because some will find a way to break the law either way.

        If your world view had been the basis of civilization, Fredrika, there would be no law, no organizing principles and we’d all still be living in caves. Like the one your shallow thinking circles round and round in.

        • Fredrika

          > “Meet the.. //..who argues that unlawful activity must be permitted and even facilitated because some will find a way to break the law either way.”

          Please stop lying, i have never argued something so stupid. If reading comprehension is a problem of yours, please quote the sentence from me which you interpreted in such a surreal manner, and i will gladly help you read it properly. Ok?

          > “If your world view had been the basis of civilization, Fredrika, there would be no law, no organizing principles and we’d all still be living in caves. Like the one your shallow thinking circles round and round in.”

          It sounds as if you are afraid on commenting on what i actually wrote, so you instead make a bunch of stuff up? Why are you so afraid of honest debate and responding to what was actually written? Is it because a little girl was mean to you?

        • Anon

          Years ago in London, so many people were jumping the turnstiles to beat the fare that government had to install cages around each entry point, inconveniencing those with packages and making nearly impossible baby carriages and such. Part of the operating budget then had to be pulled from service to create monitored portals for people with packages that could no longer fit in the security cages. All this to limit fare beating.

          In a for-sale digital file, the “fare” is the purchase price. Would the system come down if they allowed fare beaters and just hoped enough people payed?

          By Fredrika’s logic this inconvenience and monitoring and expense drawn from service is all the fault of the government, right? The fare jumpers and the cheaters and those trying all sorts of means to gain the advantage without paying the fare—exactly what piracy is by definition– were just exercising their rights in her view, and it was foolish of the government to even try to stop it.

        • Fredrika

          > “In a for-sale digital file..”

          You can not sell files, you can sell goods and services, why do you not understand this fundamental economical fact?

          > “..the “fare” is the purchase price.”

          Fare is what you pay when you have enjoyed a service that the seller of said service sells. Pirates do not enjoy a service that is for sale, they enjoy a services which is offered for free.

          > “By Fredrika’s logic this inconvenience and monitoring and expense drawn from service is all the fault of the government, right?”

          It’s not my logic? In reality the responsibility for all laws passed fall on the legislators, because those are the one’s in power. They chose of their own free will to pass them, therefore it’s there responsibility. Do you not understand the concept of responsibility?

          > “The fare jumpers and the cheaters and those trying all sorts of means to gain the advantage without paying the fare—exactly what piracy is by definition..”

          There is no fare for a service which the services provider offers for free, so piracy is definitely no the same thing.

        • Guest

          Hahaha, poor Anon. He can’t disprove a single thing Fredrika says and he knows it, so all he can do is go off on ad hominem tangents against her.

          You that only discredits you, right, Anon?

        • Guest

          *you know

        • Jmorse43508

          The only one who has a childish, warped reality is you, Anon, and your MAFIAA puppet masters.

        • Passerby

          “argues that unlawful activity must be permitted and even facilitated because some will find a way to break the law either way.”
          In the US this is exactly what they have been doing with weed. why should filesharing be any different? It’s all about Money and Control when the government has a chance to gain more control over what they can do to people.
          Correct me if I’m wrong, please.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anon

          “The fare jumpers and the cheaters and those trying all sorts of means to gain the advantage without paying the fare—exactly what piracy is by definition– were just exercising their rights in her view, and it was foolish of the government to even try to stop it.”

          Precisely. Both fare jumpers and pirates think that “someone else” should pay, as long as they can avoid it by all means.

        • Fredrika

          > “..pirates think that “someone else” should pay, as long as they can avoid it by all means.”

          You seen confused. Pirates enjoy a free service which the service provider expects no payment for, so there’s nothing to pay. No one else has to pay anything as a result of piracy. No costs arise from piracy.

          Is simple logics to much for you?

        • Anyone

          if I don’t use the service, why should I pay for it?

          if I use the subway, of course I pay for it
          if I use itunes, of course I pay for it
          if I use TPB, noone is asking for money, so why should I pay for it?

        • Pelham123

          “There’s one person left in the world who clings to the sad belief that this burgeoning governmental and court response isn’t because of internet piracy and thus is not piracy’s fault”

          All sane people “cling” to this very basic belief. A response is never the catalyst’s fault. Not in rape, not in abuse, not even in actual lawbreaking.

          If you steal a CD, you’re not at fault for being arrested. You’re at fault for stealing the CD. The police are responsibvle for your arrest – their action – and THEY are at fault if they do it improperly.

          If we are responsible for our actions, we are not responsible for someone else’s actions. What’s good for the citizen is also good enough for the government official.

          This all a distraction on your part, I know, from having to actually argue that piracy is wrong, which you can’t do. But do you see? In your zeal to bolster one incorrect argument, you must expand to make an evil one. You are the rot.

        • Wallace

          “In a for-sale digital file, the “fare” is the purchase price.”

          Exactly. And on Bittorrrent, the price is zero dollars. All users have paid the fare. None are cheating.

          So why ten-odd posts in this thread? What are you saying? Anything?

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      I agree, the pirates will destroy the open Internet but they’ll never admit it.

      • Fredrika

        > “I agree..”

        You agree to being wrong?

        > “..the pirates will destroy the open Internet but they’ll never admit it.”

        You seem confused. Pirates have no power to destroy the Internet. Politicians do however, but no one is responsible for the choices of politicians but the politicians themselves. Seriously, do you not understand the concept of responsibility?

      • Anon

        Bingo. It’s like an arsonist swearing setting fires does no harm and has absolutely nothing to do with surveillance of the arsonist networks.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Exactly! Good analogy!

        • Guest

          Except that filesharing is neither harmful nor a crime, making your analogy wildly delusional.

        • Anyone

          but we do have proof that filesharing causes no harm, so why compare it to fire?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “but we do have proof that filesharing causes no harm”

          You do not.

        • Fredrika

          > “You do not.”

          Reversed burden of proof again i see? The responsibility to prove it’s harmful falls on the one who believes it does and that society should act accordingly, but they haven’t proved it.

          But yes, they do have proof of the opposite.

        • Anyone

          @NTP
          ignoring all the studies, are we?

        • Guest

          “You do not.”

          Stop lying, Nej.

          http://www.google dot com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=filesharers+buy+more

        • joexxx

          You need to think through your statements more before posting. Right now you look very stupid and childish.

        • Guest

          @Guest:
          “Except that filesharing is neither harmful nor a crime, making your analogy wildly delusional.”

          I have to agree. Filesharing is neither harmful nor a crime, but it looks like this opinion is shared by a minority. A little and sad example that is true for a lot of developed western countries: They will put you for many years in prison if you share or obtain files that contain information about pixels that create a certain pattern on your monitor after the cpu and gpu finished the calculation. Looks like we are still in the dark ages.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          And why am I not surprised to see the self-confessed fascist “Anon” and “Nejtillpirater” clapping each other on the back for exalting the argument that it’s the uppity wife’s fault she was being beaten?

          Because that’s what basically goes on here. The ruling by the court explicitly makes any form of common carrier or conduit culpable for the contents of a sealed package – same as the post office. Same as an ISP handling mail traffic.

          And the two prize idiots see the ruling as “just” and the blame as falling on “pirates” when an incompetent judge makes a ruling he can not possibly see the ramification of.

          I guess when the next tier of courts overturn the ruling – and the two of you have been proven decisively wrong yet again – you will, as usual, ignore evidence staring you bluntly in the face.

          Because that it will be overturned is a given. According to that ruling, the inescapable conclusion is that no one may carry encrypted traffic or sealed packages at all.

        • Nix

          Arson? That’s laughable. Really?

          Piracy is like dropping nuclear bombs and wondering why the rad-zombies are out to get them.

      • Jmorse43508

        I agree, the MAFIAA will destroy the open Internet with idiotic laws like SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, TPP amd so on, but will never admit it.

        FTFY.

      • IDIOCRACY

        So all the murderers will destroy the sales / legality of knifes, stones, baseball bats, axes, motorbikes, cars…. etc…. hehe but nejtillpirater will never admit it.

        Same analogy

      • joexxx

        The pirates aren’t the ones destroying it. Corrupt governments are.

      • icec0ld

        This just in: Iraq destroys itself by being attacked by the USA.

        Not really, but using the analogy Nejtillpirater we can conclude that the very use of the internet is provoking it’s destruction. How sad. That were the internet to stop working, you would blame a group who actively loves and protects the free and independent net are responsible for it’s destruction.

        In short, if someone breaks my stuff are they responsible for breaking it? Or am I for provoking the overreaction? Any sane person knows the real culprit here.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Both Nejtillpirater and Anon are fanatical adherents to the view that it is the victim’s fault for provoking the response. Nejtillpirater stands on record for promoting this view for four years straight. And as for Anon not only has he admitted to the view but stated that he’s fine with it if said view makes him a fascist.

          To which Nejtillpirater repeatedly cheers.

    • Guest

      Implying the government doesn’t want to fuck up the network with surveillence simply because they’re paranoid oligarchs.

  • http://twitter.com/lzr9 lulzer ?????

    this does not seem rational in a technological context, especially for .DE, I will review the specifics of the case…

    The critical factor is that they are trying to claim an unknowing and irrelevant data transport is responsible for content which originated distinctly and verifiably elsewhere… this is impossible.

    .DE’s entire internet shall be shut down if such claims are true!

    and its an explicit contrast to existing legal policy in EU

    • Anon

      I think that’s right. The problem, Lulzer, is that government cannot and will never allow the injustice of all digital merch and product and patented formula intended for sale going free because some band of so-called pirates enjoy pulling the cash flow from industry while duplicating their products. No government will ever permit this without an enormous and damaging struggle. Just because the kind of control government seeks is unlikely or even impossible, they have constitutional duties to seek it and the voting public has not sent any message they disagree, except for a miniscule minority. Pirates know this. Pirates don’t care about the damage they compel, as long as they get their free stuff. That’s just historical fact by now.

      • Anyone

        by your logic Mercedes should sue people that buy Toyota, because people that buy Toyotas won’t buy Mercedes

        a company only makes money if they sell something, “potential sale” doesn’t exist, if the current products are not bought for whatever reason it is the responsibility of the company to make a better product or offer it at a more competitive price

        the copyright monopoly is just that, a monopoly
        and it is time that the MAFIAA joins the free market and competes, just like every other company out there. why should taxpayers money be wasted for a useless monopoly?

        • Anon

          “by your logic Mercedes should sue people that buy Toyota, because people that buy Toyotas won’t buy Mercedes”

          No. Actually by my logic pirates who allow Mercedes to do the research, design and development to create a new model car but then use secrecy, stealth and technology to make an illegal copy without purchasing the Mercedes product is much closer to my point. And both illustrations are unlawful and unethical, by the way.

        • Fredrika

          > “And both illustrations are unlawful and unethical, by the way.”

          No ethical person believes there to be anything unethical about acting according to the free market rules through disobeying a legislative monopoly which society has no proven need for.

          What would be unethical would be to defend said legislative monopoly and it’s obstruction of the free market without proving society’s need for it.

          But i guess ethics isn’t a grasped concept from someone who openly applauds fascism and rape of human beings?

        • Anon

          Fredrika, you must be breathing helium. lol

        • Anyone

          @Anon
          but the result is the same: the Mercedes is not getting bought

          so why do you see a difference between building your own car or buying a car from a different company? for Mercedes the effect is the same (their car doesn’t get bought)

          make a better offer than your competition and you will make a profit
          fail to adapt to the marketplace and you will go bankrupt

          sadly for the MAFIAA they have the politicians in their pockets, so they drag down other industries in their deathstruggle

        • Guest

          No laws exist to punish a wizard for magically duplicating a Mercedes, if that were possible.

          Holy fuck, bro, even your hypotheticals are wrong.

      • Guest

        “pirates enjoy pulling the cash flow from industry while duplicating their products.”

        I just schooled your boyfriend Nejtillpirater with this link. Looks like I have to school you with it, too.

        http://www.google dot com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=filesharers+buy+more

        We pirates give cash to the industry. More than any other demographic does. We *are* the best customers. I’m sorry that you live in denial of this, but it’s still true.

        The only damage we’re causing is to the likes of the MPAA and RIAA, which is a very good thing indeed. Those gangsters on their last legs as artists wise up and ditch them.

        (Although the damage we’re causing them is nothing compared to the damage that they’re causing to themselves)

        “Pirates don’t care about the damage they compel, as long as they get their free stuff.”

        We compel no damage and we pay for stuff more than any other consumers of media, as has been demonstrated to you many times. Your detachment from reality hazardous. Please check yourself in to a nice mental hospital before you hurt yourself or others.

        • Anon

          You appear to be saying that as long as you pay for some, you should be allowed to steal some if you don’t care for the rightsholder. Good luck with that.

        • Anyone

          noone is stealing
          copying is not stealing

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          If shoplifters buy more in the store than non shoplifters, then it’s OK to continue shoplifting?

          Piracy is similar to (but not the same as) stealing, is and shall be illegal for good reasons.

        • Fredrika

          > “If shoplifters buy more in the store than non shoplifters, then it’s OK to continue shoplifting?”

          Another guilt by association argument. you just can’t help yourself?

          > “Piracy is similar to (but not the same as) stealing..”

          There are no similarities whatsoever. The copyright monopoly does not exist for the same reason as property laws, and unlike with the exact harm that stealing causes, there is no harm caused by copying.

          > “..is and shall be illegal for good reasons.”

          But when asked what those reasons are you can’t come up with one single reason that stands up to any scrutiny, and that isn’t exclusively based on your personal subjective an rather ignorant opinion, which in turn completely denies copyright as a concept, and it’s in present day clearly stated purpose.

          Please understand that your ignorance is not a good reason.

        • Guest

          “You appear to be saying that as long as you pay for some, you should be allowed to steal some if you don’t care for the rightsholder. Good luck with that”

          I’m saying that when you claim piracy is harmful and causes artists to lose money and is threatening the entire global digital economy, you are lying through your fucking liebag teeth.

        • Anyone

          copyright is more like shoplifting than copyright infringement is

          because of copyright I am deprived of use of my property, that I bought, because I can’t do with it what I want
          with copyright infringement noone is deprived of their property

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Anon, once again: C O P Y I N G IS NOT S T E A L I N G!

          Copy /= to steal.

          It’s like saying that me ‘copying’ the design for a car that I build myself in my own home for my own personal usage is me ‘stealing’ from the people who designed that car.

          Don’t compute in the real world.

      • IDIOCRACY

        You should read up on your history of pirates, the real ones (from then still called Holland) got a letter of their government what said they could do what they did. legally for own profit and profit of the state. THAT is a real pirate..

        • Techanon

          @IDIOCRACY: “legally for own profit and profit of the state. THAT is a real pirate..”

          That’s a corsair. Corsairs are basically pirates with government licenses to pirate.

        • IDIOCRACY

          @techanon, sorry but in my native language that is really a “pirate” or “hijacker” and since my ancestors were pirates, I should know…. but this is just semantics clouded by differences in language and defies the true purpose of the post. That a pirate is actually something totally different than a file-sharer :)

    • Anyone

      Germany already has the “Störerhaftung”, which is just as nonsensical as this ruling

      so it’s nothing new for the lower courts to be this wrong (or possibly corrupt) when it comes to the internet

  • Pingback: “Anonymous” File-Sharing Darknet Ruled Illegal by German Court | Best Seedbox

  • Who

    this is Y you shouldn’t use usenet/cyber locker. $10 a month or more and its still not safe.

  • unusedcrayon

    What about everyone contributing routers to the internet? They forward encrypted traffic without knowing what is in it, so why not sue them!

    • IDIOCRACY

      In the Netherlands, ISP’s are starting to roll out their free WIFI network by giving clients a discount if half of their traffic bandwidth is open for everyone to use. that means that soon there will be in the Netherlands a huge open free WIFI network. How are you ever going to implement this technology in Germany with this ruling….. right never… so another piece of evidence that this copiright bullshit is hindering innovation instead of stimulating it.

      Same as for Finland ISP Elisa and others being sued for their new set top box that stores everything you record in the cloud instead of home on the machine (the hardrive of the machine is actually the cloud and the machine is a thinclient). TTVK wants to forbid this… again copyright hindering innovation.

      So indeed soon we have to sue the whole INTERNET.

      hehe

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  • Whatever

    I wonder how much different the behaviour of those antipiracy companies and this court is in comparison to some dictatorships that try to filter or shutdown the internet.

    This court has now caused that Germany is going to have a hard time explaining to China that freedom of speech is a humen right. They also made sure that any bad government (like a dictator) can torture anyone using TOR by refering to this case to silence critical civilized countries.

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    This decision makes not sense

    • Passerby

      It’le be overturned later on, if not Germany will end up suffering from it in the long run.

    • Guest

      Everything is fine. The court in Hamburg is famous for retarded decisions like that.

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  • Anonymous

    i said months ago that there would be rulings that made anonymous internet usage and anonymous file sharing/transfers illegal. looks like i wasn’t far wrong. i have also said that proxies and VPN will be deemed illegal and told that as there are so many companies using it, that it cant happen. i think we are on the brink of that starting as well. i wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the only way a proxie or VPN service is able to be used is if you are actually a company and not an individual, certainly not a home user. this shit is going to get worse people, just wait and see! i must admit that, given what happened 70 years ago, i find it strange that Germany is so high on the list of doing what it can to extinguish as many freedoms as possible, both on and off the Internet though.

    • Anon

      When privileges are respected and used lawfully, they are enshrined and beloved and maintained. When they are abused and exploited for unlawful behavior the way pirates are using encryption and vpn and darknets, they’ll be surveilled and in many cases, licensed or rendered outright illegal.

      Then the pirates drip their tears of entitled outrage, led by freetards, while blaming someone, ANYone else. OH I know! let’s blame the government! YEAH! the government! Piracy is obscuring, classless and destructive to an open and free society. You are deluded if you believe your privilege of privacy will trump government’s obligations to enforce the law.

      And yes, your privacy is no ‘right”, it’s a privilege you can justifiably lose. Don’t believe me? Visit a prison sometime.

      • Anyone

        copyright is abused
        so by your logic it should be outlawed

        finally we agree

      • Fredrika

        > “Then the pirates drip their tears of entitled outrage, led by freetards, while blaming someone, ANYone else.”

        Are you speaking of the weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market? They refuse to take responsibility themselves for trying to sell useless products that holds no economical value, instead blaming everyone else, including pirates, demanding to get money without selling anything, like some pathetic freetards?

        > “And yes, your privacy is no ‘right”, it’s a privilege you can justifiably lose. Don’t believe me? Visit a prison sometime.”

        On the contrary, privacy is a right, a human right, unlike the copyright monopoly, which isn’t a right, but a limited privilege, a privilege which society has no proven need for.

      • Guest

        lol

        Anon getting madder. If we keep this up he’s gonna cry soon. :(((

        “When they are abused and exploited for unlawful behavior the way pirates are using encryption and vpn and darknets”

        Our behavior may be unlawful(in some backwards parts of the world) but it isn’t immoral. And when the law clashes with morality, morality ultimately wins. Time to pack your bags and go home. Actually, it was time for that years ago.

        “they’ll be surveilled and in many cases, licensed or rendered outright illegal.”

        You can’t criminalize encryption, stupid. To do so you would have to criminalize math. This has been pointed out to you before. You also can’t really surveil it depending on the encryption strength.

        “Then the pirates drip their tears of entitled outrage”

        Really? Who’s the one dripping tears of entitled outrage? Because it honestly seems like it’s you. Rage moar, sweet Anon.

        ” OH I know! let’s blame the government!”

        Well, yeah. They along with the MAFIAA are the ones responsible for attempting to suppress the sharing of culture while destroying civil liberty in the process. So yes, let’s blame the ones that are doing this for doing this. Novel concept, eh?

        “Piracy is obscuring, classless”

        Hold on. Do you mean it’s classless in the sense that it tears down socio-economic classes and makes us all equal, and this is somehow a bad thing?

        And yes, your privacy is no ‘right”

        The law disagrees with you there.

      • Anonymous

        you talk shit, Anon, just like the industry troll you are. sooner or latyer, you will be on the receiving end of having your or your family’s rights violated and see how you handle it. privacy is a right, just as freedom is a right. it isn’t something that the entertainment industries have any say in who can and who cant have it or is entitled to it. it also isn’t down to those industries to decide who can and who cant be anonymous when doing anything on the net just as they dont have the right to read my letters!

      • Hypocrite.

        Sorry, anyone that thinks it should be legal to have sex with a 3yr old girl (ie: pro child pornography) has no moral ground for me to even listen to. Also, remove encryption and all journalists are in serious danger as are all government troops and actions. unless we’re back to one law for the rich and one for the poor.

        • Anyone

          raping a child and possessing information are 2 different things

          noone is arguing that raping 3 year olds should be legal, but documentation of that rape should be legal, so that the rapist can be found and prosecuted

        • Guest

          You are an ignorant fool. Porn is not just about sexual intercourse. Simple posing can also be porn and now please go and improve your typicall FOX new intellect. That’s embarrassing.

          The information in form of bits has also nothing to do with the real act.

        • ScrewEwe2

          There’s “Guest”, “HugASnowball”, “SnowballEater” (Below) still at it. Busy guy.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Too bad, Hypocrite. The fact is that pedosexuality is the new homosexuality, heterosexuality outside of marriage, and interracial sex.

          I.E. not as many people think that it is ‘wrong’ as you would like to believe. In fact, from talking with friends and relatives, most of them have said that as long as there is no physical force, they wouldn’t care and would turn a blind eye.

          3/5 majority there.

          That is also about the mean when talking with random strangers, unless you are talking with the extremely religious/brainwashed people.

          The only reason that pedosexuality was made illegal and child porn was made illegal (almost worldwide, it was legal up until the 1980′s) was so politicians could use it as the new ‘boogie man’ for society to direct attention away from their own bad actions.

          Oh, and Anyone…. don’t speak for everyone and don’t automatically use the word ‘rape’ to describe an adult and child having sex together.

          If there is physical force, it is rape. But glory be….. 99% of the time there is no physical force at all involved, contrary to what the police try to BS about.

      • Violated0

        Privacy and Anonymity are enshrined under the First Amendment in the US Bill of Right where you are talking pure insanity to say these rights will be denied to all just because a few people abuse the system. The European Union also has human rights and other laws reading much the same,

        All the time people use services like VPN and Tor for legitimate reasons, including political activism and journalism, then the Government has no place in monitoring who does what and when. The only exception is when there is enough evidence to believe someone is breaking the law which may require further examination.

        Copyright infringement is usually a civil matter in most countries which means no Police involvement which then excludes Government monitoring. So at best you may convince a Judge to grant discovery.

        What you are staying is that copyright should be 100% enforced with no stone unturned and no place to hide. The Judge in this case obviously believes much the same. The problem here then is that this would destroy the Internet as we know it and that idea only makes the population very upset and angry.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        “When they are abused and exploited for unlawful behavior…”

        Human rights are not “privileges”. Even thinking that free speech and the right of privacy is a privilege once again puts you in the seat of someone who subscribes to views not found in any civilized society.

        And secondly, no civilized society has ever done as you state – indeed, you need to go back to Germany in 1930 before you find a place where a human right was rolled back in the way you describe.

        And yes, privacy is indeed a right, not a privilege. Which is why prison systems not offering such are universally condemned by human rights agencies. And why incarceration is circumscribed by very stringent rules.

        But I shouldn’t be surprised to see you touting the fascist view once more.

  • root@paypal.co.uk

    how long until ip’s get so fucked off with all this crap they start pointing users to ways to hide thier arses and take whatever thier users are doing completely out of thier control, back to be no more than a gateway onto the internet?

    the sooner that day comes the better off we’ll all be, and the sooner the biggest headache and nightmare the facists governments and copywrong cunts will ever have to deal with, with regard to the internet, will beguin. (sorry for the screwy paragraph, i have adhd and getting stuff out can be damn hard work.)

  • warcaster

    Torrentfreak, can we please stop calling secure networks “darknets”. It implies so much negativity and bad stuff happening on them. If we promote them as “darknets” they’ll be easy to attack by politicians and the public who won’t understand what they are for, will support them.

    So please, stop giving these things such negative, evil-implying names.

    • Darkman

      The term Hacker comes from model train enthusiasts.
      The term Hack was simply making the toy trains do things they weren’t originally designed to do.

      The model train folks have always complained that “hacker” had a negative connotation as applied to IT. But it stuck.

      Darknets are simply non-public encrypted communications amoung peers.
      Heck, I consider RAS a form of Darknet. I mean all Darknets reside on the internet.

      I guess a Blacknet would be a network that doesn’t leave the building?

      • 4G

        Blacknet = no bars …
        “Can you hear me now?”
        “Can you hear me now?”
        “Can you hear me now?”

  • iMeZiV0x

    I’m confused. If an ‘Anti-pirating friend’ is added, surely they are then pirating themselves and should also be liable.

    • Anyone

      depending on the country this kind of entrapment is sadly legal

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Yes, which it shouldn’t be, Anyone. It’s like going up to a random guy on the street, telling him that you have a naked child/adult in your car that he can rape, and then trying to bust him for following you.

        It’s not only entrapment but the guy could have been following you to make sure you were telling the truth and to call the police.

  • Guest

    for money i would judge you for dead penalty :)) hard reality we live

  • Waseihou

    I will not duplicate my post regarding european directive 2000/31/ES twice, it’s already on RetroShare forum

    http://retroshare.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2382

    while being there, you can download RS too, it’s always good to interesting software.

    RetroShare is nice, nice software. It works for the purpose it was created quite well, I like it.

    Still it has it’s limitations. To add IPv6 support will be painful, I looked through the code it is very hardcoded, same with BitTorrent DHT it is using to save peers locations.

    This software was never meant for sharing with random unknown people, it is designed for sharing with a close group of friends. So if someone rips a DVD or BD, he does not have to visit his friend with HDD and can transfer to him directly. Result is as if he made a visit, nobody knows what he brought with him. Then he can also share with friends of their friends, but it’s still local think and only his direct friends serve as a proxy. It’s best for your big LAN in a city if you have something like that, not for semi-anonymous internet filesharing.

    The main flaw of the software – the proxy is allowed to transmit the whole file. There is also a screen where the downloader see through who the transfer is being made. That makes it easy for MAFIAA to pinpoint the user, it is the same as with eMule or DC++ then. Actually RetroShare has some similarity with DC++, there is a shared folder and possibility to show list of shared files to your friends (but not to their friends).

    The software will also have scalability issuses, as searching is being done by flooding. But it should not be problem when it is used as inteded. It is not another eMule.

  • Shogunreaper

    So if they can find out what the song is how exactly was it encrypted?

    • Waseihou

      The user who proxied the infringing file has added MAFIAA spy to his friends. In RetroShare you directly connect only to your friends and all other communication is traficked throught them. They work as a proxy for you and you are proxying for them. Anyone can have shared folders with files, those can be found by searching. Anyone can search and download the shared files. You can make your friends to be “trusted friends” and with them you can also share your filelist (they know what you share). You don’t have to use this feature.

      When file is being trafsered, it is first encrypted and then send through the proxies to downloader. Only downloader can decrypt it as the symmetric encryption key for the file was negotiated using assymetric cryptography (blah blah magic…). While the downloader does not know who is sharing the file, he can still see all his “friends” IP addresses. His friends does not know what he is downloading as it is being passed encrypted. Even if he is downloading something directly from them, they can’t se it is him or some another user who is downloading.

      The problem is, that proxy can’t prevent infringing content to be transferred, as it does not know what it is. Actually the data being transfered are meaningless withou decryption key, they seems to be a random white noise. So up till know it was supposed that the proxy is not responsible for data being transfered, because it CAN’T know what it is and therefore it can’t stop the transfer…

  • Guest

    That’s utter nonsense. You’re just a post office and you are certainly not responsible for the data that is send.

    Those judges in Hamburg do have some issues with the reality.

    PS: Don’t worry. A higher court will correct that crap.

  • Gargamel

    Didn’t we defeat the Nazi’s in 1945?

    Hamburg Courts: Still making Hitler Proud.

  • Jigsy

    I guess we all know what’ll be coming to the UK soon…

  • Anon123

    It doesn’t even work.

  • Guest

    i read all this Anon comennts and what i see its the guy feel like he come from past like last 90′ when cassette and cd players was used :D seriously its just funny to read xD

  • Foff

    Look this is bullshit but we have learned over and over again that any network can and will be infiltrated. In this case it would be interesting to know why this guy added this mafiaa troll. He was obviously deceived but just as important was what did this troll do to gain trust. Did this troll share any copyrighted data?

    Retroshare is apparently not a perfect solution. We need more and better solutions that guarantee anonymity. In the real world crooks have used P.O. boxes for years and the post office was never found guilty of aiding them. Our law makers have let the mafiaa run wild in the cyber world this pseudo charge of aiding copyright infringement needs to be stopped. How long before the mafiaa sues the owners of the cables that carry the internet and the makers of all the computing devices used to hook up to the internet? For years all copyright laws or proposed laws favor the copyright industry it is about time that we get some laws that protect consumers and the internet so the mafiaa can’t run wild suing and asking for ridiculous statutory fines the the average joe couldn’t pay in a lifetime.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Retroshare and Freenet ARE perfect solutions as long as you compile them yourself AND aren’t stupid enough to add any trusted friends to your list who you do not know in real life.

      Main reason why I run Freenet WITHOUT any trusted friends, because I know no one who uses it besides me.

      • Foff

        Ditto! If I used it I cannot think of anyone I would add right now. I would certainly never add some faceless facebook friend or some fellow pirate that I had a casual internet relationship with. Like I said it is not perfect because there are trusting people out there that are not as cautious.

  • JG

    Can someone enlighten me… If I, as a user, cannot tell what files I’m proxying between friends on my computer due to the encryption, how is it that the MAFIAA is able to tell the file is copyrighted? Shouldn’t they be just as clueless as myself to the actual, plain-text content of the file? I’d assume only the intended final recipient of the file would be able to decrypt the file using his/her own personal private key.

    Unless of course, the intended final recipient of the file was in fact the anti-piracy group the guy added to his friends list… I could see them saying “Well you sent it to us, so either tell us which of your friends used you as a proxy to get it to us or we’ll sue you” and if it is really an anonymous system, I doubt he’d be able to find out, short of sending a copy of his friends list…. Especially if it can use more than just one proxy node [A sends a file to B who passes it along to C who passes it to D .... who passes it to the final recipient Z].

    • Anyone

      they downloaded the file through the network and the guy they sued happened to be the end-point

      he didn’t have the file, he had no idea the file was passed through him, but this court is well known to be beyond incompetent and/or corrupt, that’s why the trolls use it.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Right in one.

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      If you participate in the distribution, even if it’s encrypted, you have a responsibility. If you don’t know what it is, don’t run the program. Or is it ok for you to take parcels with unknown stuff in your bag when travelling? OK as long as you don’t know what it is? Not according to the police.

      • Anyone

        so you want to arrest all postmen?

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Of course not, they’re not doing anything illegal. But on suspicion, letters or parcels may still be opened by the police.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          @Nejtillpirater

          Which is complete and utter shite. In one breath you claim that postmen are exempted from prosecution and in another you claim that being a courier for an encrypted file transfer makes you liable for possession of illegal materials.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          How do you get suspicion, Nejtillpirater, when the box is totally unopened/sealed/undamaged and you have no idea who sent it and are just passing it on to a friend? Answer: You cannot in the real world and they are trying to make third-parties responsible for first-parties, which is totally illegal and will be overturned once challenged.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Of course not, they’re not doing anything illegal. But on suspicion, letters or parcels may still be opened by the police.”

          And in this example, the letter was opened and the postman sued.

          So even your own argument makes this case stink.

      • Guest

        That is nonsense. Nejtillpirater is just trying to scare potential users of decentralized and encrypted networks away.

        They have probably control over the BitTorrent network, but they can’t fight a war against networks like RetroShare. Those networks are immune against the MAFIAA.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          No criminal use of a network or any other tool is immune. The criminals think that they’ll never get caught but look at what happened to the guys responsible for The Pirate Bay. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

  • tonyj

    Sort of like how UPS passes on Pedophile material to the recipient, they don’t know what’s in the box, they just facilitate the delivery.

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      Why do you like child porn being spread?

      • Anyone

        learn to read, he did say no such thing

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          He changed his text after my comment.

        • Guest

          @Nejtillpirater

          I don’t see his comment as edited.

        • Fredrika

          “I don’t see his comment as edited.

          If we’re speaking of tonyj’s comment, it’s original format, which i have access to here, was as follows:

          > “Sort of like how UPS passes on Pedophile material to the recipient, they don’t know what’s in the box, they just facilitate the delivery.”

          NoToABillionPeople’s original response which came only seconds later after tonyj had posted it was as follows:

          > “Why do you like child porn being spread?”

          And as anyone can see, that’s was an rather dishonest straw-man from Nej. If he now claims that it has been edited, which it hasn’t, it proves that he can’t even trust his own eyes. He really doesn’t understand what people actually write, he just sees what he thinks they write. A rather serious mental condition, but a regular one for people suffering from cognitive dissonance.

      • Guest

        So you are going to close down and arrest all postmen for distributing child porn in the post after all they are handling and distributing the packages of child porn. The post office and postmen are are network distributing child porn just like Retroshare being a network. If someone can be arrested for distributing on Retroshare then postmen can be arrested for distributing without knowing whats in packages.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          The post office have no intention of distributing child porn, in fact they have terms and conditions that prevents the users from sending illegal stuff. On suspicion letters or parcels may be opened in collaboration with the police.

          Using Retroshare, you’re actually willingly letting your computer take part in distributing “anything”, including child porn, in the same way as saying that as long as you’ve got a free space in your travelling bag, you’re willing to bring any letter or parcel wtih you when traveling from one country to another, as long as you don’t know the contents.

        • Anyone

          you can also send “anything” over the post office
          the post office is still not held liable for it

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Nejtillpirater, it’s the same thing here: you do not know what is being sent, you are just passing along a package/bits of data.

          Would you arrest a person who passed on a package to a friend, only to find out later that it had drugs/child porn in it? No, you would not and the police would be stretching the law to the breaking point if they tried to do that.

      • Guest

        The term “child porn” seems to be right on top of your “how to troll for MAFIAA” checklist. Am I right?

        I believe it’s useless to play that game with us. We aren’t stupid.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          I’m not trolling, I’m just trying to help the pirates with more facts.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “I’m not trolling, I’m just trying to help the pirates with more facts.”

          When your “facts” are invariably demonstrably false, illogical straw men, or guilt-by-association assumptions, then we “pirates” prefer to turn to science, dictionaries and empirical data for such information instead.

          All of which refutes everything you have claimed in this thread, aside from your own personal opinions – such as for instance, what should be legal or not. Even then you ten to lie by presenting your opinion as the fact where the law actually says otherwise.

      • Guest

        @Nejtillpirater
        There is actually an answer. Those pixels might help to prevent real and sometimes hurtful crimes on real humans. It can be used to prevent rape.

        It’s never a good idea to throw problems in dark corners. In corners where actually nobody is able to prevent and control them (laws can’t do anything). All you do is to cause more harm. It’s just like the fight against drugs. You can’t win that war. Drugs will always be a part of humanity. You have two effective options to solve that problem. Either you kill every human being on this planet or you legalize and put government based control over it. Just like Colorado(?) did.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Nejtillpirater, you are assuming that pedosexuality and child pornography is a ‘problem’.

        We had this same exact bullcrap back in the day with homosexuality, heterosexuality outside of marriage, and interracial relationships being illegal.

        The ONLY kind of sexual interactions you should be trying to protect children from are physically forced sexual interactions, which are the exact same kind you should be trying to protect adults from.

        Best way to do that is by teaching children and adults how to protect themselves, which does NOT equate to not having sex outside of marriage, but always telling people where you are going.

        But wonder of wonders, children today in relationships with adults and even older children cannot do that, because nosy adults love to butt into the relationships and try to get the adults and older children in question put into prison.

        I.E. we are creating the circumstances that lead to the truly bad things in the world today regarding children and sex, like the child rape/murders. Usually done by some pedosexual driven mad or close to it by lack of sexual contact with someone who they are sexually compatible with.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          “We had this same exact bullcrap back in the day with homosexuality, heterosexuality outside of marriage, and interracial relationships being illegal.”

          The major difference between “homosexuality, heterosexuality outside of marriage, and interracial relationships” and pedosexuality is that the former involves adults, mature and capable of making their own decisions, but for pedosexuality children are not capable or mature enough. The pedophiles want them to be that but this is not the case.

          “I.E. we are creating the circumstances that lead to the truly bad things in the world today regarding children and sex, like the child rape/murders. Usually done by some pedosexual driven mad or close to it by lack of sexual contact with someone who they are sexually compatible with.”

          So let’s remove punishments for rape, rapist are otherwise driven mad or close to it by lack of sexual contact with someone who they are sexually compatible with (the victims).

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          @Nejtillpirater

          Rape is not caused by sexual frustration or by lack of sexual contact. Rape is an act of power and control over its victims. Why do you think majority of rapists (both adult and child rapists) are someone close to the victim?

          By the same token, laws that define child rape as having sexual intercourse with an underaged partner cannot differentiate between true adults or the underaged guy/girl who was just making love to his/her partner.

          No one here is condoning rape or trying to abolish its punishment. But what we can do is to review the laws to reflect modern day morals and norms

  • chronoss

    i would also argue that being anonymous is a form of encryption to hide your real self thus
    you really break the net
    millions will just tune out and germany goes back to stone age ina few years as none of its people see using the net for knowledge and culture as anythign useful
    good ruling , france gone, germany gone , usa shortly
    there we got the morons off the net
    good
    back to having fun

  • Guest

    You know guys one can not get ride of these corporate parasites by being defensive.

    These guys can corrupt everything and pay judges and juries and cops to do their deeds. They can have law makers render illegal the simple fact of breathing.

    We know that these kind of people can induce the death of million of people if this will enrich them.

    What we have to do is kill them all.

    • Serf_no_more

      “You know guys one can not get ride of these corporate parasites”

      We’re not trying to get rid of them. They’re trying to create and impose new controls on the public. They’ve failed.

      They don’t want the death of millions. They want living millions to be their serfs. People in hell want ice water. Wanting something is not a crime.

      I have no intention of killing someone I’ve already beaten.

      • chronoss

        and they want to sell you the ice water at 5 trillion a glass cause you can only get water from them.

  • chronoss

    enjoy obama

    • Mitt Romney

      Get your sister off his knob.

  • Jeremy Bowers

    Does anybody else think its about time to leave the internet all together. I mean we have the ability to build a new one that’s just for illegal file sharing right? I looked up decentralized internet on Google and found something that referred to WiFi mesh networking as unpenetrable.

  • Guest

    This ruling will no doubt be overturned on appeal in a higher court.

  • Lo

    Germany is sad thought police state still occupied by the allies who control it behind the scenes.
    The same people that own corporate America, control most of the German’s media and judiciary.

  • Drozd

    “it’s a true Darknet and virtually impossible to monitor by outsiders.”

    “The court, however, ruled that the user in question, who was identified by the copyright holder, is responsible for passing on the encrypted song.”

    LOL … How did the copyright holder identify the user?

    • Anyone

      he was added as a “trusted friend” by the guy that got sued

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        And that is why using Freenet or anything else, you never add any ‘trusted friends’ that you do not know in real life. Enough said.

  • Undefined

    So the monitoring company was acting as a node for the user. So if the user downloaded anything the monitoring company didn’t have rights to they are just as guilty. You can’t infringe other people’s copyrights to enforce your own.

  • Serio

    i will download all day and night here in russia

  • Pingback: “Anonymous” File-Sharing Darknet Ruled Illegal by German Court | cloudguys.net

  • me

    This Hamburg Court ruling notwithstanding (and Hamburg is the East Texas Court of Germany, the laughing stock of the legal profession in this country)… this is natural selection at work.

    If this guy was stupid enough to add the MAFIAA or someone he doesn’t know and trust _personally_ to the list of his trusted friends, he ought to be spanked for it. RetroShare’s F2F subnetwork is only as good as the least careful of its users.

  • Athox

    I’m glad they keep discovering people involved in transactions online. It only helps speed up the process of discovering where things need to be better encrypted.

  • Pingback: Anonymous

  • got runs?

    Stupid phucking judge will make encryption illegal.

    • Anon

      You betcha. Knowledgable observers have been suggesting for years that if unlawful behavior online continues at present rates– credit card fraud, cyber bullying, identity theft and copyright infringement– slowly but with certainty and fierce intent government will remove freedoms and dismantle technical abilities from all except only the most hardened pirates, just as there are career criminals in every walk of life. Piracy will be marginalized with increased monitoring and soaring punishments (Hana Beshara, anyone?) while the general electorate watches, learns and understands this is not going to be tolerated, just like speed limits and daily societal controls that all but the most foolish acknowledge and obey. Constitutions and UN Charters will be amended to allow the installation of surveillance backdoors as they have ALWAYS had these abilities in morse code, paper mail and telephone. Online ID’s, iris and fingerprint scans to get on the open internet, we support all these measures and more, We will take from you whatever we like, one slow step at a time, and we will crucify you for resisting.

      When online lawlessness filters out of the general public—and it will, just like shoplifting was curtailed by a huge percentage, what will be left is to hunt and apprehend digital career criminals in such a fashion that they never see daylight again and are held up for the world to witness just like any other hardened criminal. And make no mistake. Ransacking and distributing digital product will become a felony, in time, just like counterfeiting.

      The world will not tolerate the promise of our digital marketplace being hijacked by pirates and other kinds of digital thieves and the trends are quite clear. 10 years ago the raid on KimDotCom and the incarceration of Beshara would have been unthinkable. Today it’s regular news and nobody gives a shit. Tomorrow? Everything I’ve predicted, including encryption and vpns being eyed by government for licensing is certainly coming true, and all because a small and foolish, selfish handful simply will not mature. So be it, then. Whatever it takes. If you think your privacy will remain intact, you’d better start lobbying your representatives now. We NEVER thought they could look up our ass at the airports but they do and we meekly let them. That’s perfect. We’re a long way from 1999 when we watched and studied and kept our hands off, but did not raid or apprehend. Those days are gone. The governments, courts and new forms of law enforcement are now finally getting started and the conviction curve will be straight up in the years ahead. You’ve seen nothing yet and we eat this shit for breakfast. Go run and hide and steal, cowards. While you still can.

      • BuddhaFacePalmed

        Well, you might as well built prisons for the entire 90′s generation. Oh, don’t forget that if corporations had their way, each and every file-infringer gets 30 years for mass-copying for a song. Holy shit. That means you have to turn an entire continent into a maximum security prison for them because apparently copying and sharing a 1gb file is worse that rape, homicide, and selling national secrets.

        Be real. If what you described has come to pass, there will be revolution by the youth, the educated, and the disenfranchised. Governments who pass these draconian laws are no longer worthy to called democracies but rather plutocracies where the rich monopolize everything and it sucks not be born rich

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Anon, Four words: Get mental health treatment.

        Enough said.

      • Ophelia Millais

        The great thing about anonymous doomsday predictions and gleeful pronouncements of the impending defeat of one’s enemies is that there’s absolutely no penalty for being wrong. You could be completely, utterly, brutally off the mark about this, very much like everyone other loudmouth who turned out to be on the wrong side of history (prohibitionists being a relevant example), and yet you’ll never have to utter the slightest mea culpa. You will just crawl back under your bridge and mutter to yourself about the depravity of the youth of today whilst the world fails to come to a disastrous end.

        Cheers, though, for recognizing that credit card fraud, cyber bullying, and identity theft are just as likely excuses as copyright infringement for the creation of a draconian surveillance state by reactionaries such as you. I’m surprised you didn’t throw in the most bulletproof excuse for curbing online privacy and liberty: child pornography. I mean, clearly, to protect society, we must think of the children. …naked, apparently.

        Since we’re making predictions, here’s one: Your side in the copyright wars, being motivated only by money, will ultimately only eek out a handful of weak protectionist advances through legislation and litigation, and you will suffer humiliating defeats along the way, as is happening right now in the realm of copyright trolling. The inefficiency of government bureaucracy, technological advances, and the sentiment and will of a populace accustomed to relatively unfettered, ubiquitous electronic communication will continue to undermine your efforts and prevent you from doing much real damage, except to the lives of the occasional unlucky sap you ineffectively try to hold up as an example.

        The most substantial assaults on privacy and freedom on the Internet, if they come at all, will not be at the behest of finger-wagging industries built on the exploitation of copyrights and other IP, nor from those who are concerned about credit card fraud, identity theft, child porn, or Anonymous’s botnets and 4chan’s script kiddies. Rather, it will come from those who insist that terrible changes are necessary to protect us all from terrorism, government-sponsored cyberwarfare, and the embarrassments and alleged threats to human life brought about by a free press. It’s not the fate of Google, Hana Beshara, Richard Dwyer, Jammie Thomas-Rasset and Joel Tenenbaum that should worry copyright scofflaws; it’s the fate of Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, and Wikileaks and its media partners.

    • Anyone

      you can’t make encryption illegal, because you can’t ban math

      the US tried in the 90s

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        Of course you can make encryption illegal, and that’s not banning math in the same way as illegal drugs is not banning chemistry or making rape illegal is not banning sex.

        • Anyone

          part of being encrypted is that you have no fucking idea what it is used for

          so, yeah, good luck banning math

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @Anyone

          “so, yeah, good luck banning math”

          Nobody’s banning math. Why are you sticking to such a foolish theory?

        • Anyone

          because you can’t ban encryption
          it’s like trying to ban math (what encryption basically is)

        • IDIOCRACY

          First of all, you seem not wanting to react on this post I made as a reaction on your CP & Rick combination

          I think the reason why this was said is totally ripped out of context. The whole reason for legalizing the CP possession is because the law can be to easily misused with the CP as an argument.
          And when a law can be misused you should perfect it, Rick just thought it would be the most easy perfection to legalize the possession so it would not be misused again and the material already exists anyway. So the possession is not harmful to kids, (same like porn does not make people rape another… otherwise porn would be illegal too) …the making however.. that should be punished by 20 years jail in solitary and permanent castration and sterilization of all offenders.
          So please next time tell the whole story, maybe people will actually respect you (that does not mean they agree with you), now they just think you are actually the one with the CP. We have a saing: “the innkeeper is exactly like he trusts his guests”. So you are probably pirating more than most of the people on this forum, this is just a way of creating evidence that pleads for you in case you get caught. coward!

          Second
          “Using Retroshare, you’re actually willingly letting your computer take part in distributing “anything”, including child porn” which is exactly the same as Google is doing when you send the file encrypted by email or documents to another using both fake email addresses. So Google is as bad as a retroshare user?? Personally I think google is worse…

          Third

          Further you comment that a internet router is something else than a P2P client, because when you use P2P, you should assume that the network is used for illegal things, the word network says it already, what is part of that network? Indeed a router or a switch, so when you supply bandwidth, you know it will be used for illegal activities, same as P2P, the one just has an other protocol layer (on top of it). Let me put it in another way, when you supply bandwidth, you know it will be used for P2P (which is legal) which will be used for downloading (which is in many countries legal) and therefore also for uploading (which is illegal in many countries). So you know when you supply bandwidth, that it will be used for illegal activities that by accident use P2P protocols over TCP-IP, because as you know this is by accident hence most uploading (and downloading) happens using FTP and HTTP and NOT P2P.
          Then you state that a person running a P2P client does not care or not even know he is passing illegal data to another. This is not by definition true because as you know the whole goal of the Bit-torrent protocol is only transport of bigger files with increased speed. What someone does with his client is only his responsibility and not another ones since someone else cannot use HIS client for transport without him actually having the content too. So he can actually choose to use it legal or illegal, just having the client does not make him acting illegal by definition. Same as the clients of the ISP over who’s routers and switches the data travels. Conclusion, you are wrong, a router passing data from A to B can indeed be seen the same as P2P clients passing data from A to B using that same router.

          Forth

          You cannot put a ban on encryption, this was tried in France for a while where someone was not allowed to be in the possession of encrypted files, the result was that it was very easy to hack Win NT4 by just changing the location to France in any user account, after reboot all password files were decrypted and readable so the administrator password was found very easy. It is technically not possible to make a law where you describe exactly when and when not you can use encryption. Lets take a DVD, this data is encrypted so you cannot posses it anymore?? Just a simple example for an exception, do you have any idea how much exceptions there must be in the law and how often the law must be updated due to new technologies… sever times in one hour I guess. Undo-able.

          You seem to ignore the truth all the time and then claim to help pirates get their facts strait, so let me be of your service here….hehe

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          @IDOCRACY

          “First of all, you seem not wanting to react on this post I made as a reaction on your CP & Rick combination”

          I can’t find that thread anymore, seems like Fredrik removed after me having exposed her lies by quoting the exact words by Rick Falkvinge in the radio interviews leading to his epic fail that forced him to resign as the leader of the Swedish Pirate Party. So much for transparency and against censoring.

          “The whole reason for legalizing the CP possession is because the law can be to easily misused with the CP as an argument.”

          In what way? Any law can be “misused” I guess but we still need them.

          “Using Retroshare, you’re actually willingly letting your computer take part in distributing “anything”, including child porn” which is exactly the same as Google is doing when you send the file encrypted by email or documents to another using both fake email addresses. So Google is as bad as a retroshare user?? Personally I think google is worse…”

          No, Google acts on reports of breaking the law and has no intention whatsover to distribute child porn. They will contact the police if they are informed of illegal use.

          “Let me put it in another way, when you supply bandwidth, you know it will be used for P2P (which is legal) which will be used for downloading (which is in many countries legal) and therefore also for…”

          Legal use will not justify illegal use. Use of a bittorrent client is not illegal unless you participate in sharing copyrighted files or child porn. It depends on the implementation of the (bittorrent or other) client exactly in what way you participate. You can’t ignore responsibility just because someone else has implemented some technology that is used in an illegal way, it’s your responsibility to make sure that nothing illegal is done with your help. An example:

          If someone sticks envelopes with heroin to the roof of your car, using your car as a transport over the border to another country, you’re not responsible if you don’t know that his happens. But if you do know, it’s your responsibility. When travelling on an airplane, the complete contents of your baggage is your responsibility, you must ensure that you’ve packed it by yourself and that noone else has put anything illegal in in. The same applies if you’re using some software like a bittorrent client to transfer files, encrypted or not. If you don’t know what’s being transferred – don’t run the software.

        • Fredrika

          > “..seems like Fredrik removed after me having exposed her lies by quoting the exact words by Rick Falkvinge in the radio interviews leading to his epic fail that forced him to resign as the leader of the Swedish Pirate Party.”

          Are you stupid? The lies were yours, because what was discussed during the interview was never Rick’s personal opinions(which was what your lies was about), is was about the political manifesto and Rick’s opinion on what it should say, and neither had anything to do with why he resigned.

          > “So much for transparency and against censoring.”

          You still haven’t understood what censorship is? Deleting comments that doesn’t follow the rules isn’t censorship, that’s moderating.

          > “..but we still need them.”

          Stop lying, Society has no proven need for the ban on possessing child porn.

          > “No, Google acts on reports of breaking the law and has no intention whatsover to distribute child porn. They will contact the police if they are informed of illegal use.”

          Which has no relevance for the claim you responded to, and the point made you completely ignored.

          > “Legal use will not justify illegal use.”

          Which isn’t the poiont he is making.

          > “You can’t ignore responsibility just because someone else has implemented some technology that is used in an illegal way, it’s your responsibility to make sure that nothing illegal is done with your help.”

          It is not according to the law. Please stop commenting on this topic any further when you don’t seem to understand what the law actually says.

        • IDIOCRACY

          As Fredrika already said, the comment is still there, for that matter I copied it from that location into this post you reacted on, still not reacting on the thing that Rick is not a CP lover or something similar like you make it look like, but due to the possibilities of ..ok for you a bit more explained hence you need it… easy to misuse law reasons he was in favor (at least that is what I understood from the official Swedish text and not your manipulated one).

          And for your comment of any law can be misused, that is not true, If a law is written in a good way, abuse will find the light in due process, for the stated CP possession based laws this is nearly impossible to correct if you keep following the letter of the law.

          The whole problem with outlawing digital content at all, is that it can easily be planted by someone with a bit more knowledge from IT then a possible average user.

          As an example: your PC has been infected with a Trojan, you do not know this and it does not fuck anything up so you keep oblivious to the fact it is compromised (http://www.darkreading.com/vulnerability-management/167901026/security/attacks-breaches/240000043/trojans-make-up-80-percent-of-all-new-malware.html). Now the hacker or someone who bought access to your PC uses this to store HIS by easy to abuse CP possession laws forbidden CP on YOUR computer.
          Next thing you know is that a swat team forces entry in your home where your 2 kids of 4 and 7 are peacefully sleeping and in the process your visiting grandmother gets an heart attack, next thing you find yourself in jail trying to explain the CP is not yours. YOU and not him, are in jail for possession of CP.

          See the problem with making digital data possession forbidden!!!

          Good I hope you now finally get the picture and understand why someone can be in favor of removing the illegality of the possession of CP. And for that matter, with the current CGI techniques, one could make it himself without the use of actual people and then really no harm has been done.

          But as your post showed you are not even interested in these facts, you just want people to believe Rick is a pedophile because you disagree with his and our copyright reform ideas.

          I think I do not need to address anything more to you hence you seem to be incapable of comprehending any form of logic but your own twisted one.
          I just want to let you know that, you might have missed it, people here are not being fooled with your cheap CP tricks trying to make someone look bad just only because you disagree with them.

          Oh just your last comment: “The same applies if you’re using some software like a bit-torrent client to transfer files, encrypted or not. If you don’t know what’s being transferred – don’t run the software.” do you know what your OS is transferring every time you start up your computer or just be online?” So you really want everybody to stop using the Internet that does not know exactly what their computer does.(with or without Trojans).

          According to your logic, is Microsoft the biggest criminal organization we know, they make it possible that the system is being compromised by delivering an OS full of security holes so criminals can send CP to your computer without you knowing it….

          For all your other word twisting and hiding truths, I will refer to Fredrika her comments (also the ones on the things you think are removed, you just seem so incapable … I try to say it nice……that you cannot find your own posts and the reactions on those anymore).

          I found out by now that my initial goal of helping you understand and straightening your twisted facts for your benefit, are a waste of time, I cannot take you serious, even I wanted to, I never evade a good discussion, but to do that, you… yes you should use your brain, admit your errors and use logic and not lies…. sorry but you do not fit that profile.. (ha and don’t try to say now… look who’s talking, then you really look stupid) hehe

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Nobody’s banning math. Why are you sticking to such a foolish theory?”

          Because that, in essence, is what you are claiming should be done.

          Here’s a clue – which you should know, having repeatedly claimed extensive experience in IT-related matters – when you encrypt communication it is not possible to tell the information is encrypted.

          In short, I could send you an encrypted file, a sequence of night-sky radiotelescope data, or a file corrupted in transit and you would never be able to tell which it was…unless you managed to de-encrypt it and open it with some application.

          Which basically means that in order to guess whether a transmission is encrypted or not you must first fail to open it in any format known to man, in it’s entirety, then ensure it isn’t simply damage or corrupted. That’s just not possible.

          Hence banning encryption is impossible as it assumes that every transmission must be intercepted in it’s entirety, then painstakingly analyzed in order to find that it is, in fact, an encrypted transmission…and by now we’ve already gove where science does not dare. We’re in Hogwarts, able to determine that a set of data is encrypted by muttering spells over it.

          Why do you think China, with such a draconian mindset, every political will possible, and an infinite budget, has been unable to stop encryption? Why do you think the US abandoned the project of banning encryption back in the day when the political establishment noticed the same thing you unloveable pro-copyright fanatics are noticing?

          Try to ban encryption if you like. It’s tantamount to making it illegal for anyone to utter a word in a voice where law enforcement could not fully understand it. You’d have to arrest people for belching. And online, that gets even worse.

      • me

        Well, banning encryption would also ban most DRM schemes. You can’t imagine how ubiquitous encryption is.

      • chronoss

        get more clever use ciphers of what appear as non encryption
        use one word to mean one bit etc and you change the ciphers regularly

        the idea is that they look and see text that seems to make sense but in reality it is a code.

        THIS is why they fail we hackers are always 2 steps ahead and we saw this coming ten years back…

  • Herodes

    How did the anti piracy monitoring company get hold of the copyrighted file and not get prosecuted?

  • Guest

    This seems excessive, as of all the possible files that may be transferred, this person is forbidden from transferring just one, but since he does not, indeed cannot, know what is being transferred, he is being shut off from the entire method.

  • waaminn

    lol, Like anyone cares about some German Kangaroo court ruling lol
    http://www.Max-Anon.tk

  • urdirdat

    why not add something like this in ‘user/share agreement’ that you are not allowed to sue over data transferred. i intuiting that a person is allowed to make any laws for other person/organization providing they agree on it. so here, this would not be a problem. its really a must because you would break the internet otherwise. i hope there be relatively mass opposition for this ruling.

  • joexxx

    I’m pretty sure that if gravity stands in the way of the corrupt court, it will have no issues declaring gravity illegal. The only problem with this is that gravity couldn’t care less.

    • Anyone

      gravity is just a theory, after all
      like evolution

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Actually, the ‘theory of gravity’ has pretty much been proven right, so it’s name should be changed to the LAW of gravity.
        Same thing for evolution actually, we have seen evolution in mutating (evolving) bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          No. The “law” of gravity has simply not been disproven. Science works by the strict rule that any hypothesis can be proven false by empirical experimentation but never “true”.

          If a hypothesis can not be falsified for a sufficiently long time, it begins to be referred to as the predominant theory instead. Hence even the laws of thermodynamics aren’t “proven”. Just not falsified.

          The various hypotheses of positives of copyright can – and have been falsified, and so most grounds for copyright are already demonstrably incorrect. The same holds with the hypothesis of the “lost sale”.

  • ScrewEwe2

    The more articles I read about the EU governments and courts chipping away at freedoms and access, the luckier I feel about being in the US. Yes, there are the ouragous cases like Jammie Thomas, the guy in Mississippi, etc., but 6 strikes isn’t even a soft breath on the wrist, compared to this.

    • ScrewEwe2

      ouragous should read outrageous.

      So solly.

  • http://twitter.com/fettemama fettemama

    Germany is a police state. That’s why you don’t run TOR exit nodes there. Or even open up your wifi – because you are the one they will blame for everything that happens.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Exactly right. Germany is going back to it’s fascist roots and I hate that people cannot see that.

      • Guest

        Don’t forget the Nazis and now Merkel…

  • Pingback: German Court Deems Anonymous File-Sharing As Illegal | The Tech Journal

  • Guest

    well written. the case is just: the user added a “rat”, a lawyer. so just dont unknow people as trusted. that´s it. the forwarding in the network will soon be disable, so who cares?

    How they made this: One lawyer A is connecting to many friends, one lawyer B is sharing a honeypot file, Lawyer A downloads this file and all friends delivering are accused.

    So dont add virtual friends, just add friends from real life to retroshare, you 100% can trust. simple.

    • Dude

      Use a vpn for added security if anyone plans on adding random people online.

  • polsenpol

    I wonder when ‘Nejtillpirater’ and ‘Anon’ start their war against American Radio-broadcasters .
    Are you 2 douches aware of the fact that American radio-stations pay exactly ZERO cents for filling up the space between commercials with music ??

    • Anyone

      there was a time when there were “pirate” radio stations
      so they already fought (and lost) that war

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      And wonder of wonders, artists have long since learned that being played on radio boosts real sales.

      Despite the fact that anyone with a receiver can also record a copy.

  • http://twitter.com/horsebones Leke

    Reading the title — for a minute there, I thought Germany had made RetroShare/darknet illegal.

    • Anyone

      by making the exit nodes liable, they practically did

      of course this nonsense ruling will be overturned by a higher court, but it just shows you the stupidity (or corruptness) of courts

  • mary effing hinge

    in the future, everything we do will be monitored and logged and we will be prosecuted and sentenced automatically and face recognition will collar us whilst going about our everyday business. the jails will be full of prisoners watching films and listening to music that they pay for out of their prison wages and the world will be a wonderful place and all criminals will be cured before release. we will all be blond haired and blue eyed and sex will be taxed. if you share something that you do not and can not own as the law states, then sharing that same object surely means that the person who originally produced that item is responsible for the future sharing of that item. therefore the original owner is liable as they did not take reasonable precaution to ensure that their product was protected against being shared. so we should counter sue the originator of said files on the grounds of irresponsible manufacture. oh i forgot, the law would then change and make it that we actually own the digital item after all and we are the ones responsible. and my last comment is that if the likes of mp4 and mkv etc are not really recognised as formats that are legal, then why does my kindle happily play them?

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Not going to happen unless the populace allows it, which they will never go for a world like that.

      • Anon

        “They” already are. It’s been happening right under your nose since Napster and more ground is gained everyday.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Court decisions do not equate to the populace allowing it and numerous people have stated that they have a problem with those decisions, Anon.

        • Wallace

          “Court decisions do not equate to the populace allowing it”

          Kidwell, most court decisions since Napster/Kazaa have come down on the side of sharing, as they should. The world’s courts, taken as one group, have given Bittorrent the pass its inventors thought they would. Thus, “six strikes.”

          Anon babbles nonsense for a reason. The facts do not support him.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Well, my happy little fascist, that’s where I’ll have to make you sad.

          Because in reality such a world as you envision will be unable to carry a digital online economy at all, while, in order to enforce what you claim should be enforced, the entire societal paradigm must become more draconic and repressive for everyone by far than even sovjet Russia in it’s heyday.

          Now, unless you think the US and the western world are going to go ahead and become more openly repressive nation-states than China, the reality is that – just like every other time when copyright clashed with fundamental rights – copyright will be dropped in favor of expanded fair use rights.

          Which this time around promises to bury the entire concept of copyright altogether.

          But, by all means, don’t let me stop you from having your delusions if they amuse you. Which it has to be. since the days of napster all that’s happened is that irrespective of legislative measures, you are losing more and more ground each day. SOPA, ACTA and PIPA were your LAST legislative effort with promise – and they were rejected, even as watered-down and ineffective shadows. Simply because despite being unable to curb or stop piracy, they threatened REAL and legal businesses around the world.

          The cost of stopping piracy is pretty steep. In effect, if you try to implement it, kiss any nation where it’s been implemented goodbye, because that nation no longer stands on a global stage.

        • Guest

          ya more ground on disposing of trash like you.

    • BuddhaFacePalmed

      No offense but try to capitalize the word at the beginning of every sentence? Wall of text hurts my eyes when I try reading it. Thks

    • chronoss

      no you will be monitored and logged
      i wont be
      i refuse and ill fight for my rights. you go ahead and bend over and take it up the internet ass….

  • KeyBeast

    “In this case, the defendant added the anti-piracy monitoring company as a friend, which allowed him to be “caught.””

    Jesus, stupid dumb guy !

  • Fdkxj

    Point the finger directly to all isp and tier 1 &2 FOR redirecting illegal trafic! Half the world will take fault and tax pot get filled or worse copyright pot fills up

  • No Joke

    People try to justify pedophilia, selling of illegal weapons, and illegal drugs with the darknet, at the same time though things such as sharing virtual downloads is being taken down at the same time. In a way I can understand why people think this way but eventually the people who get cought doing these REAL illegal things on the darknet will retaliate in some way or another against world leaders.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Those ‘real’ illegal things are violations of human rights by having them illegal, save for perhaps the selling of ‘illegal weapons’…. though even that doesn’t equate, because ‘illegal’ weapons is an illegitimate decision by a judge that you cannot have X or Y just because there is the POSSIBILITY of you using it in a harmful manner.

      With that thinking, they should also ban cars and knives.

      • BuddhaFacePalmed

        And pillows, blankets, matches, chairs, glass bottles, lighters, toothbrushes, paper-mache, scissors, cigarettes, pool cues, bowling balls, dumbbells, chainsaws, shears, rocks, water, toasters, and etc, etc.

        Might as well return to the Stone Age… Wait, rocks can be use in a “harmful manner” too…

        • Only A matter Of Time

          @ Christopher Kidwell @BuddhaFacePalmed Well in case you two have not noticed things are heading in that direction, I can just see it now.

          Year 2013

          Homeless man: I love my blanket, clothes, my food, and my drinks.

          Jack booted thug police: Sir do you realize it is illegal to be outside sleeping with food, water, clothes and blankets?

          Homeless man: what are talking about? Its not illegal!!

          Jack booted thug police: Sir you will have to come with me to the police station so we can interrogate you about where you got all of these in your possession.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Only, no, it is not heading in that direction. The last time that my VERY CONSERVATIVE (for some things) rural area had a law like that come up, it was shot down.

          This is in Maryland, U.S. by the way. So if a supposed ‘nanny state’ like Maryland cannot get those laws passed, no other area should be able to unless there is bribery of elected officials.

  • Guest

    This ruling is even more troubling than previous ones holding that owners of wireless access points must secure their networks.

    Why? Because these earlier cases were limited to imposing an obligation to secure the access point by an access key.

    This ruling goes beyond punishing the user for lack of access control to punishing the user for transmission of illicit contents.
    While it’s theoretically possible to lock down a router, it’s physically impossible to insure that no illicit contents is ever transmitted without requiring the user to use DPI and encryption cracking on all trafick.

    DPI is impractical, and encryption cracking is impossible.
    What if I invite a neighbor over to my house, and he uses my internet connection to transmit an encrypted message, that later turns out to contain CP or copyright infringing contents.
    According to this silly technology illiterate judge, I can be punished for not being able to insure which encrypted messages are transmitted over my network.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Technologically illiterate is probably being very kind to this judge.

  • Projekt-x83

    Hamburg is a good place to sue individuals who are dealing with problems of copyright infringements of their users. Other German courts are much more liberal than this one and I would wait for a rule of the BGH (Germanys highest court)

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Yes indeed. No other court in Germany has fucked up so decisively (or has had it’s decisions overturned so often) as the court of Hamburg.

  • FrickenGruber

    “…the defendant added the anti-piracy monitoring company as a friend”

    Well, there you go. Stupid is as stupid does.

  • Asd

    Where the tools can’t drill, money can system will crumble soon, as the future was always in young people and we are becoming more aware of this imbalanced system.

    We already saw the power of riots, soon they will not be able to stop us.

  • Johnadams1273

    hello

  • sonoro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gwvHs0cg0I

    they also censor this video Portugal

  • Guest

    @Nejtillpirater
    “A network router doesn’t know anything about the traffic being routed, and in most cases the company/organization that owns and administers the router assumes
    that it’s being used legally, according to terms and conditions agreed on for all parties using it, like ISPs and ISP account owners.

    A person running a P2P client knows and often doesn’t even care that it’s being used to support piracy, though own downloading, seeding or just passing
    data on to another downloader of some illegal content. The person running that P2P client don’t give a damn about laws, terms and conditions.”

    So if Retroshare, Tor and Freenet add a policy concerning legal use, I suppose everything is now legal?.

    I don’t think you would be satisfied unless all these networks shutdown.

    Under the laws of most civilized nations, it’s not sufficient for liability to attach to an information intermediary that you have general knowledge of something — that something illegal might be transmitted. You must either have specific knowledge, or have the ability to verify what you are transmitting.

    If you neither have specific knowledge nor the possibility to verify what is being transmitted over your network, you can’t be liable. Your copyright logic is really evolving into fascism, where it always belonged.

    Your side constantly moves the goalposts. First, it was the primary infringers whom should be responsible, next it was the internet service providers, next those “facilitating” anything making file sharing possible, owners of wireless access points who (according to your “logic) are responsible for not controlling who are using their networks.
    But this was never the limit. The goal was always and has always been converting copyright infringement into a strict liability offense.

    You can’t stop at holding third parties responsible for whom they allow access. You must also hold those responsible for the contents they transmit, even in situations where it’s physically impossible to do so.
    Falkvinge was right.

    And this ruling does nothing in the long run.
    The copyright troll was only lucky because he was added to the exit nodes friends list and Retroshare allows any friend to download the unencrypted file instantaneously.

    Next generation of file sharing software might well contain a delay decryption function.

    Everyone who is friend with the exit node can download a file, but both the name and contents is encrypted. The decryption key is only released with a delay of 7 days.

    Now, you are welcome to fetch 5 TB files from any Retroshare exit node hoping to get the exit node in trouble, but if you never get the decryption key, or the data turns out to be garbage, you must reserve terabytes of storage capacity.

    Your side can’t never win.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Actually…the RShare client known as “Stealthnet” would be what you are looking for here. Every transaction and request is encrypted and no one person in the chain knows what was transmitted, or by whom, by the next person in the chain.

      And “friends” do not exist. Only randomized ip adresses.

  • Guest

    @Nejtillpirater

    “Of course you can make certain use of encryption illegal, and that’s not banning math in the same way as illegal drugs is not banning chemistry or making
    rape illegal is not banning sex.”

    Actually it is. Because an encryption law in order to be effective in reducing piracy must forbid private persons from encoding information in any way the state can’t decipher.

    And the sex analogy is more apt than you think, because Sweden has already outlawed any sexual transaction for money.

    This ban is a dthrowback to earlier paternalism and has not reduced illegal prostitution. Banning sex for money only drives the market underground.

    And if you wanted to invoke a persuasive analogy in support of how the state ought to regulate intimate private conduct surely the war on drugs is very ill advised.

  • Xenexodus

    guess what fuckheads… I will share with my friends in finland encrypted P2P no matter what you do.

  • Pingback: German Court Deems Anonymous File-Sharing As Illegal | OMG-Gurubootcamp!! Singapore

  • Guest32

    @Nejtillpirater

    “If you participate in the distribution, even if it’s encrypted, you have a responsibility. If you don’t know what it is, don’t run the program. Or is it
    ok for you to take parcels with unknown stuff in your bag when travelling? OK as long as you don’t know what it is? Not according to the police.”

    Please provide a citation to the law as it is. You keep insisting that transportation and distribution of illicit material is a strict liability crime. This is so far I know not the case.

    And yes, if I am asked to bring a bag to someone, and it turns out to be illegal drugs or CP, I am not guilty by virtual of having transported the contents.

    Most criminal offenses predicate responsibility on subjective intend and knowledge.

    Swedish law is no exception. But please refer to the Swedish statute on child pornography imposing strict liability on users of encrypted communication.

    You can’t and you likely know it. And it has been pointed out to you several times.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Agreed. In all countries, if you are transporting something without knowledge of what it was, you have no liability under the law.

      Even if it is a dead body of a child, which has happened in the past where someone has had a dead body put into their vehicles trunk without their knowledge and they have an airtight alibi.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        It depends. If you drive your car over the border to another country each day and accept that someone puts packages with unknown contents in it and picks it up on the other side of the border, you should have understood that this probably was smuggling and you’re definitely liable.

        If you run software that does the equivalent to smuggling on the Internet and you’re fully aware of that illegal contents may be distributed through it, you’re liable. It might be the case that the court believes you when you claim “I didn’t know, I didn’t read the documentation”. But most of the pirates are fully aware of what they’re doing so in many cases such claims will be ignored, depending on other types of evidence, statements from witnesses, mail conversation etc.

        • Fredrika

          > “It depends.”

          Not according to the law.

          > “If you drive your car over the border to another country each day and accept that someone puts packages with unknown contents in it and picks it up on the other side of the border, you should have understood that this probably was smuggling and you’re definitely liable.”

          That’s your personal and rather ignorant opinion, but that does not equal that Mens Rea has been proven, and therefore you are simply wrong. Why do you insist on commenting on legislative issues when you don’t seem to understand anything about law, not even the most basic fundamentals?

          > “If you run software that does the equivalent to smuggling on the Internet and you’re fully aware of that illegal contents may be distributed through it, you’re liable.”

          Not according to the law.

          > “It might be the case that the court believes you when you claim “I didn’t know, I didn’t read the documentation”.”

          Unless the prosecutor can prove that you did, and had Means Rea, they are obligated to hand down an acquittal.

          > “But most of the pirates are fully aware of what they’re doing so in many cases such claims will be ignored, depending on other types of evidence, statements from witnesses, mail conversation etc.”

          Why does someone so ignorant of how the law and the judicial system actually works try to give prophesies? Statistically you have a bigger chance of winning the lottery than getting once single prophecy correct.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “If you run software that does the equivalent to smuggling on the Internet…”

          There is no such equivalent. None what so ever. The closest you could get is “software which allows unnamed parties to transmit untranslated information to other unnamed parties”.

          By your definition, you have just rendered ALL of the internet impossible, since EVERY ISP, EVERY network router, and EVERY node in a network does exactly that.

          The real world equivalent of your metaphor is that person A creates a joke and tells it to person B. Person B tells the same joke at a party. And you come along and compare it to “smuggling”. Nice little bit of utter irrelevance there…

          On the internet, every link in the chain passes on information which it cannot interpret or decipher in any realistic way. Quite a lot of it in encrypted form. But you, you sad sack of stumbling ignorance, decide that unless the information is “accountable” at all steps, it is not legal to carry?

          Do you even realize the monumental ramifications of what you are saying?

          Any network expert, any form of tech support, and any IT-savvy teenager and up to internet gurus with sixty years of experience in transmitting data would be looking at you in a funny way were you to tell them what you blithely spewed on this forum in that comment.

          Once and for all (again), NTP – go read a wiley book on networking for dummies so you at least have a bare-bones understanding of how things work.

    • Chaz

      Use Open DNS and DNScrypt. Then use PeerGuardian, also transfer your broadband to a smaller company. As for liability with encrypted communications, use 256 bit encryption. Cannot be decoded without the encryption key!

  • IDIOCRACY

    I guess after commenting several times here on this article, it really surprises me, when I read the posts of the well known trolls anon and even more his Swedish wannabe colleague nejtillpirater, how stupid they really are, to think that we do not see through their lies. At first I assumed they were just ignorant and bad educated and now I know they really are and to dumb to learn how to get their facts straight. I tried, but it is no use.
    I assume the reason they do this on this pro share site, is to convince casual visitors that sharing is wrong, using whatever lies and tactics they seem fit (even slander). I think we should thank them for that, it gives us the opportunity to explain and counter their false arguments so they are actually helping defending our point of view to the casual visitors.
    So here it goes: Thank you so much for your efforts anon and nejtillpirater, your help is really appreciated. hehe

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Actually, I suspect both Anon and Nejtillpirater are trying to wordwall people into thinking they know what they are talking about, in order to discourage fence-sitters.

      It tends to work the other way around. I usually ask fence-sitters to read first one commentary made by Geist or Doctorew – and then i present the opposing view. A choice posting by Nejtillpirater.

      Without hesitation I can say that Nejtillpirater is a pirates best recruitment tool. He provides a wonderful and persuasive backdrop of an inflexible, clueless, and willfully ignorant minority industry desperately grasping greedily for the freedoms of the common man to be taken away so that you can stop person A from sharing a file with person B.

      Recently I’ve begun sharing “Anon” comments as well. his juicy tidbits of where he defends ANY extremity which reduces filesharing – at ANY price…are priceless in this regard.

  • IDIOCRACY

    Another comment on the update:
    Update: Contrary to the U.S. and elsewhere, a previous ruling in Germany already makes wireless network operators liable for copyright infringements of others.

    That means if you have older equipment that really does not want to connect to your WLAN when it is secured (like my old phone and new phone and old laptop and new one all in ad-hoc configuration, it is impossible to secure the network, it will just not work, I have been downloading drivers manuals etc. until I got so mad it did not work I almost burned the whole shit… but then…. insecure it works, just update all firewalls to make exceptions, remove the encryption and it worked and still does. So In Germany my old (10 – 7 years) equipment is illegal to use on a WLAN. I “think” that is illegal to decide in a court due to certification of the equipment before selling. If unprotected is illegal, then for sales it needs to be impossible to use unprotected (radio transmitter related laws in EU a far as I know). So correct me if I am wrong..(oh and the trolls… don’t even try.. you will be ignored). hehe

  • Sanity_Vocal

    Do you know the implications of the ruling in the real world? It would mean that GOVERNMENTS can NO LONGER send encrypted data over the internet, cause the trasfers fall along similiar lines. It would be easier for criminals to trace moles in their organisations as the undercover officers can no longer send discrete messages to their contacts. All postings to government agents will have to be done directly and cannot be posted annonymously.

    Good job magistrate. You have just given criminal and drug organisations a boost in their attempts to kill cops and informers.

  • Pingback: RetroShare, di darknet e falsi amici | infropy - information entropy

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  • Drdionross

    So, honest question or maybe matter of opinion, but I currently use Peer Guardian.. Since someone reakons it “doesn’t do shit” what would be the recommended program to use?
    Our laws here in New Zealand are a little stranger after the whole Kim.Com fiasco..

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  • I.Am.An.Idiot

    Anybody has guide for dumbass like me on how to use darknet. When I last tried even with port forward I can’t connect to anybody public or private.

  • WellDone

    Actually if you have skype installed, you may get sued over helping a murderer? Because skype still uses some users as routing nodes to traverse NATs.. Wow thats funny! Its just the court in Hamburg b.t.w. they are known for such decicions, the case wont stand a chance at any other court in the country. OLG Köln recently made it clear, that parents can´t be held repsonsible if the children do fileharing and the parents have told them, that they are not allowed to do so.

    So basically its not that bad whatsoever here.. There is a big number of cases over open wlans and so on, it mainly depends on the court what is decided! But in general they nowerdays tend to reject the case!

  • Charles

    Take this analogy:

    Within a terraced row of houses, one of the residents is playing copyrighted material. The resulting pressure waves cause the shared wall to vibrate in sympathy with the music, travelling along the entire row of houses. Are the the neighbouring properties guilty of retransmitting copyrighted material?

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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