Comments on: Anti-Piracy Group Raids P2P Admin’s House Without Warrant

By: Die wunderbare Welt von Isotopp

Die wunderbare Welt von Isotopp — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:54:08 +0000

URL-Sturm Medien und Politik…

Ich habe zu viele Tabs offen. Also kippe ich die URLs, Soundbites und meine Notizen hier einmal am Stück ab.Piratenpartei
Piratenpartei, EU: Christian Engström EU-Spitzenkandidat der schwedischen Piratenpartei,
»Der Netz-Experte beschäftig sich da…

By: law is ANTICHRIST

law is ANTICHRIST — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:14:17 +0000

@129 i dont say how naive i say how stupid!!!

for someone supposedly smart enough to run a site dont even know how to read?

the usa has long since been a socialist country… when ever i come across legal authorities i make sure i have my camera running (cell phone has one) and when asked to shut it off (they will demand it) i simple tell them sorry they will have to deal with it until our dealings are completed for my protection!!! they legally can not do anything to u for doing it…but they will demand u put it away…

you ppl better wise up it will only get worse!!! there is no such thing as cooperating with ppl like this… u cooperate with ppl with a common goal which we do not share with them…their goal is to put u in jail… make u out to be the criminal…and the legal system is on there side… the only thing we have is the written law… but u have to pay to have that for protection…

By: Wochenrückblick 24.05. – 01.06.2009 « Sikks Weblog

Wochenrückblick 24.05. – 01.06.2009 « Sikks Weblog — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:13:07 +0000

[...] http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-group-raids-p2p-admins-house-without-warrant-090528/ [...]

By: o???

o??? — Sun, 31 May 2009 10:46:41 +0000

To all people who just said “how naive”.
You clearly have never been confronted to such situation so stfu.
If a lawyer threatens you with a big fine and shows you a document of several pages that you understand only partially then probably it’s better to cooperate.
Now that it’s done, his cooperation will probably be in his favor as they clearly abused their power.
Thanks to this guy for being a p2p server admin.

By: Links 31/05/2009: Smartbooks Coming, New Mozillaca | Boycott Novell

Links 31/05/2009: Smartbooks Coming, New Mozillaca | Boycott Novell — Sun, 31 May 2009 08:19:17 +0000

[...] Anti-Piracy Group Raids P2P Admin’s House Without Warrant Ever since it became clear that running a P2P links site is not a crime in Spain, music anti-piracy group SGAE have threatened civil action. Yesterday the admin of two P2P sites had a home visit by members of SGAE, who took advantage of the admin’s legal naivety and conducted a search of his property without a suitable warrant. [...]

By: Bloodyscot

Bloodyscot — Sun, 31 May 2009 02:43:13 +0000

Depending on how they word it, this could be legal. How many people know what a search warrants should look like, many court papers look the same. I’m sure they had court papers to gather evidence, they may have trick him into letting them in but the lawyer and an expert are aloud to gather evidence. Always get the police there, which in most casts have to be there if they have a search warrant. This is wrong but police search cars all the time by just asking and hinting that they will toll the car in then get a warrant. ALWAYS CALL YOUR LAWYER OR THE POLICE BEFORE LETTING ANYONE IN YOUR HOME. Even if they are the police, call the police to be sure.

By: JIT

JIT — Sat, 30 May 2009 22:34:31 +0000

It’ll be real interesting to see what happens, what with politics being so … questioned.

But, I bet ‘em odds makers make the safest bet though, betting on all ‘em trolls. :p

By: el90

el90 — Sat, 30 May 2009 19:44:23 +0000

me to lawyer over phone “whats the deal with unwelcome visitors to my home… oh if they are not invited in I can defend my property…”

me to guys “you are not welcome here”

me to guys “in five seconds I’m going to find the largest blunt thing…”

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 30 May 2009 16:28:06 +0000

why do i get the feeling that most people droning on about guns are below the age requirement to own one?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 30 May 2009 15:05:23 +0000

“Well if he is smart he and the lawyer with have them charged with perpetrating a fraud. They lied about having legal documentation allowing them entry to the premise. They then removed property based on that which now becomes theft as well.”
———–

teenage armchair lawyering FTL. maybe stick to things you actually DO KNOW about, perhaps social phobias, abject loneliness and basement feng shui?

By: yais

yais — Sat, 30 May 2009 10:23:32 +0000

he should take lagal action himself imo.

By: RIAAtard

RIAAtard — Sat, 30 May 2009 10:20:14 +0000

Well if he is smart he and the lawyer with have them charged with perpetrating a fraud. They lied about having legal documentation allowing them entry to the premise. They then removed property based on that which now becomes theft as well.These copyright lawyers should check into the criminal code then they’d know that copyright infringement at best is a civil matter and in Spain it isn’t even that. You can’t collect money from the sale on blank media, ipods, etc to cover piracy and then sue them as well.

Juan sue them then put the cash into upgrading your sites and servers with a nice little sponsored by SGAE on the site.

By: Ben Hurr

Ben Hurr — Sat, 30 May 2009 10:17:08 +0000

They pretended to be the authorities, broke into this mans home and invaded his -families- privacy.

Anything less than straight up jail time for these folks wouldn’t be enough. ;o

By: fred

fred — Sat, 30 May 2009 03:10:42 +0000

“The guy let them into his house. Absolutely nothing wrong was done here. I understand that we all hate anti-P2P groups around here, but come on this is a non story. Everything they did was very obviously legal.”

they showed a document pretending it was a warranty, then they intimidate him;
so no legal at all

By: tedjones

tedjones — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:02:51 +0000

When seconds count always remember the police are minutes away!

By: tedjones

tedjones — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:00:32 +0000

Thankfully we have the right to bear arms!!! ……… Let them try that crap here in the good ol’ USA!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 17:36:39 +0000

The guy let them into his house. Absolutely nothing wrong was done here. I understand that we all hate anti-P2P groups around here, but come on this is a non story. Everything they did was very obviously legal.

So if you let me in in your house I can go to all rooms, search every cabinet and take your computer and it’s legal when I’m not even a police officer?

By: Robert

Robert — Fri, 29 May 2009 17:19:24 +0000

Just a hint of what to come from the Media MAFFIA, it shows super clear why parties like the Swedish Piratpartiet MUST get voted into a position of control.

And watch the Government doing nothing against these (SGAE TERRORISTS)

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 16:25:17 +0000

SGAE are criminals. Belong in jail.

By: anonymous

anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 15:16:39 +0000

i would not let them in my house

By: Nutman

Nutman — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:54:53 +0000

The guy let them into his house. Absolutely nothing wrong was done here. I understand that we all hate anti-P2P groups around here, but come on this is a non story. Everything they did was very obviously legal.

By: Frank

Frank — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:45:13 +0000

Wow this guy is really naive.

By: Anti-Piracy Group Raids P2P Admin?s House Without Warrant - The Hax Community

Anti-Piracy Group Raids P2P Admin?s House Without Warrant - The Hax Community — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:03:36 +0000

[...] Anti-Piracy Group Raids P2P Admin?s House Without Warrant Ever since it became clear that running a P2P links site is not a crime in Spain, music anti-piracy group SGAE have threatened civil action. Yesterday the admin of two P2P sites had a home visit by members of SGAE, who took advantage of the admin?s legal naivety and conducted a search of his property without a suitable warrant. Allow us to introduce computer science student, Juan Jose Carrasco Colonel. The 26 year-old resident of Bonar, Spain, lives with his parents and brother. He also ran two eD2k file-sharing link sites – Elitemula and Etmusica – which were recently shuttered after a court order was served on the site?s host. Yesterday things took a turn for the sinister. At around 12:00 noon and after a sleepless night, Juan heard a knock at his door and upon answering it he saw five people standing there who gave no other explanation who they were, other than they were from the court. They gave Juan documentation that he didn?t fully comprehend and gave him the impression that they had a warrant to enter his home and make an inspection of his computers and hard drives. It appears they came looking for the stats from Elitemula and Etmusica which reflect the downloads of music made via links on those sites between September and December 2007. Juan explains, ?They entered my house and I called them to show them where the computers were in the house. I showed them my personal laptop, but they insisted on seeing them all, including my brother?s.? This wasn?t enough for the unexpected visitors who proceeded to enter every room in the house and even opened up some cardboard boxes in Juan?s bedroom which merely contained personal family belongings. ?A man who identified himself as a ?computer expert? reviewed the contents of my personal computers and then tried to access my brother?s computer,? Juan explained. However, since the laptop was password protected the ?expert? prompted Juan to provide the password, which he couldn?t since he didn?t know it. After a telephone call to Juan?s brother which understandably worried him, he handed over the password which allowed the ?expert? to make a detailed investigation of the laptop. They went on to examine several other hard drives. After the five individuals had been inside for two hours, Juan finally managed to get lawyer David Bravo on the telephone who, along with Javier de la Cueva, recently defended P2P developer Pablo Soto. David asked Juan to read out the order which supposedly allowed these individuals to enter his home and search it. Over the telephone, David Bravo confirmed that the text of the order did not authorize entry to Juan?s house or examination of hardware held there. Understandably concerned, Juan asked David to demand that the five people in his home identify themselves. The first man was a lawyer for Spanish music rights/anti-piracy group SGAE, the second a SGAE computer expert, another a clerk and others unidentified. At this point David Bravo told Juan to order the individuals out of his home and demanded that they leave all of his property intact. After a long conversation where the SGAE lawyer tried to convince that seizure of hard drives was allowed, David Bravo urged him to leave Juan?s home immediately. David Bravo gave Juan instructions on how to proceed and offered to appear before the courts as a witness to what had happened. Javier de la Cueva, David?s partner, told TorrentFreak that he will be representing Juan. In the end the five left Juan?s house and left the hard drives behind, although Juan voluntarily allowed them to take a laptop. As soon as we have more on this story we will publish an update. ———————— source [...]

By: storm

storm — Fri, 29 May 2009 11:51:45 +0000

…If I were to understand this correctly from the passage below:

“…gave him the impression that they had a warrant…”

it mean they give him some very complicated document and most probably, ask if they can search his house.

If I’m correct, that mean they didn’t specifically say it’s a warrant and this in turn mean, the guy ‘willingly’ let the ‘computer experts’ in.

Which then mean, he CAN’T sue them.

…or i could be wrong. Anyone care to enlighten me?

By: phazik

phazik — Fri, 29 May 2009 11:48:24 +0000

Know your rights…..

By: SGAE

SGAE — Fri, 29 May 2009 06:19:27 +0000

SGAE in all fields

By: Sendaii

Sendaii — Fri, 29 May 2009 06:18:42 +0000

Wait, wait, wait, ann anti-pircay GROUP raided his house, not the police? I think there is room for a lawsuit here.

By: Troberg

Troberg — Fri, 29 May 2009 05:46:33 +0000

The correct thing to do is:

* Contact your lawyer.
* Have the lawyer confirm that they have no right being there.
* Order them to leave.
* If they don’t leave, order them to leave, and inform them that they will be forcibly removed if they don’t leave.
* If they still don’t leave, forcibly remove them.

By: Forget calling the police

Forget calling the police — Fri, 29 May 2009 04:32:50 +0000

If it was my home, they’d be leaving by ambulance or coroner.

By: Lefa

Lefa — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:46:39 +0000

I don’t think that there is a country where people who are not accompanied by a police officer in uniform or one to present a badge, can conduct anything like this. Just don’t let them in, ppl!

By: anon #2

anon #2 — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:41:44 +0000

Jesus!…. im shocked and appalled about this, if nothing seriously happens to the people involved and SGAE itself i will loose all faith in the legal system

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:37:52 +0000

Dumb/naive guy + aggressive corporate thugs = invasion of property.

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:57:28 +0000

#81 – Jorge – This guy Juan was still dumb to be intimidated by a “lawyer” at the door asking for his property. My employers have been sued and had process servers come to my work with subpoenas requesting all sorts of things. First thing I do is call the defense lawyer and if he says “don’t give them anything,” I don’t. The plaintiffs need an order from the judge to force you to turn evidence over.

By: deathracer

deathracer — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:07:58 +0000

this would never happen in the ghetto, i doubt they would even dare to show up on my block let alone in front of my house. i would scare these ppl ****less just by the way i answer the door sometimes yes i try and scare everyone that knocks on my front door wearing a suit. plus we know the laws in the ghetto.

By: anon

anon — Thu, 28 May 2009 23:48:45 +0000

If TF admin reads this comment, you guys should iReport this kind of thing on CNN and send these articles to major newspapers, like, for example, The Guardian, El Pais, La Reppublicca, Liberation, Spiegel etc.

This is crazyness. And can someone tell me how “stealing” a (maybe) 30 dollar movie should be punnishable by a 150 000 dollar fine? what ever happened to cruel and unusual punnishment?

By: Rekrul

Rekrul — Thu, 28 May 2009 23:03:49 +0000

Re: #25, Fecking Irate;

“It has finally come to this…these SGAE people should be publicly flogged by a band of rabid teenage wenches.”

Public flogging by rabid teenage wenches? How do I join SGAE? ;)

Re: #93, Use Your Brain?;

“Whats up with these americans and their fire-arms?”

Being able to protect yourself beats waiting for the police to show up, hopefully in time to save you.

By: nawap

nawap — Thu, 28 May 2009 22:41:59 +0000

Sue the bastards, sue the living fuck out of them. If theycan go to court then si can we. Go ahead…..sue them

By: AntiMatter

AntiMatter — Thu, 28 May 2009 22:31:03 +0000

That’s unbelievable. The nerve of them! Taking advantage of people like that.

amtech.exofire.net

By: PetFoodz

PetFoodz — Thu, 28 May 2009 22:04:45 +0000

Some people think that this would be thrown out in US courts etc…

When police show up at the door and you let them in they are now allowed to go about their buisness(party etc) .. I don’t think it would be thrown out etc since you let them in willingly.. Although if they falsely represented a warrant I hope that it would..

By: Jeff

Jeff — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:54:25 +0000

First of all, I hope something like this happens to #32 (the only troll comment here). What goes around, comes around.

Second, if this were a US court case, it would thrown out because the evidence was gathered without a proper search warrant. The SGAE, while part of the MAFIAA, are acting a lot like the real MAFIA here.

I’m not sure about the laws in Spain, but I would think that the way in which their so-called evidence was gathered invalidates their entire case. Anything claimed from such evidence had better not be allowed, and the lawyer for the SGAE disbarred.

In some ways, this incident makes the SGAE look worse than MediaSentry.

By: PetFoodz

PetFoodz — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:03:16 +0000

Albeit they were let into his home.. They falsely represented a warrant.. Im sure this will bare some sort of legal bounds.. Unless it states we have permission to blah blah when you voluntarily let us in your home.. Which it most likely does..

I hope he prevails none the less..

By: Use Your Brain?

Use Your Brain? — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:01:25 +0000

Whats up with these americans and their fire-arms?

“if a robber or these idiots actually did this knowing everyone may have a firearm in their house to protect themselves ,do you really believe half of this would happen.”

Ever heard this saying?:

“If your opponent brings a gun to the fight, you bring a canon!”

Political change is needed, not frenzy murdering. As @81 – Jorge, is saying, this will only bite them in the end, fueling public outrage, consequently bringing substantiel changes to society. They are shooting themselves in the foot…or head more likely :)

By: Truth

Truth — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:46:18 +0000

Wow, this “Juan” is really dumb.

By: Gordon Freeman

Gordon Freeman — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:35:19 +0000

They didn’t really do anything illegal, though it was deceiving

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:11:10 +0000

For those that like to link intelectual property to physical property there is something called “Adverse possession” where people hold the rights to a property in a “de facto” manner contrary to the guy who holds the paper saying his the owner and in most of the world those rules apply including inside the U.S.

So if the people hold the de facto rights to the music the original owners already lost that ownership it belongs now to the people (the public domain) because they proved time and again that is theirs and there is squat that copyright owners can do about it.

ECHO (Actual, Notorious, Exclusive, Continuous, Hostile, Open).

By: Rabbit80

Rabbit80 — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:03:09 +0000

Dont ya just love truecrypt – “Of course I will give you my password…” – just give em the wrong one so they see nothin but my “safe” partition!

By: Barse

Barse — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:58:52 +0000

@65

The price of property in Spain is cheap. Why do you think we buy them?

Barse (UK).

By: Anon

Anon — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:26:40 +0000

If the RIAA tries this shit in America, forget the fifth and fourteenth amendment, they’ll be dealing with the second.

By: GrX

GrX — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:24:51 +0000

this is one of the reason i have said all along everyone in the world not just people in the usa should have the right to bare arms,

the whole reason this kind of things happen to these people because these assholes who think they are above the law know no-body can do anything about it because of the stupid laws we have in this world about holding a firearm.

if a robber or these idiots actually did this knowing everyone may have a firearm in their house to protect themselves

do you really believe half of this would happen.

would you try to rob someone’s house if you thought or knew the person in that house had a firearm.

the big bang anarchy is coming mark my words people will just get sick and tired of all this bs and start to fight back anyway they can.

By: Bouncer

Bouncer — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:02:22 +0000

lol they ain’t pulling that shit with everyone,eventually they will get beat down lmao