Really, the arguement that “I’m not stealing nothing” is REALLY getting old, especially when it cannot be defended with even the barest shred of validity.[/quote]

Copying = Ctrl+C
Stealing = Ctrl+X

As for your first argument. Transferring data over my internet cable does costs money, as does storing it on my harddrive.

This is however irrelevant, as economics has nothing to do with being able to charge money for things. Neither does economics have nothing about getting payed or paying for anything you do.

Economics is simply about the matching up the demands of the seller and buyer resulting in a possible trade if both parties agree, and no trade if the parties don’t agree. In many caes, such trade is done without money ever getting involved.

In the case of file sharing, the buyer thinks that the seller is charging too much for the distribution and instead chooses to trade with someone who is willing to distribute for free, although often with a hidden agreement that he should distribute it to someone else in exchange.

More advanced protocols such as bittorrent splits the information into pieces making it easier for both parties to ensure that the other party forfills his hidden agreement by conducting a more or less fair exchange of information.

As information is cheap to replicate, this works out great for both parties in the transaction. Of course, the original distributor that wanted to charge a lot of money for doing the same thing isn’t too happy about it.

The biggest misunderstanding that people have about economics is that Market Value is the same as the Real Value. This is a complete misunderstanding. It is actually the opposite.

The further apart the market value and the real value is, the better. Just look at air. You would spend a large part of your salary on air if you had to, but fortunally the market value is low (as in free) because of the great supply. This is a huge economic boon for society as a whole.

When market value and real value is close, it is usually because of either high production costs, low supply or both. In either case, society will profit if production costs goes down or supply increases.

Yes, it is more expensive to create a piece of information in the first place. This is why a goverment instituted distribution monopoly exists, which is pretty much the opposite of a market. However, a large percentage of the population disagree with it as they see the huge efficency losses it causes and are willing to illegally bypass it. Of course they are saving money on it also (which is how they recognize the inefficencies). Filesharing is a far better trade.

And no, stealing isn’t a trade since there aren’t two parties that are in agreement.[/quote]

Blabbity blah blah blah. All those words and not a lick of any relevant sense.

Warner Brothers produces a movie. They spend, let’s say, $30 million to make it. To earn back their investment, they sell theater tickets and DVD copies of the movie.

And you really want to see this movie! But you decide that the $10 to $20 price tag to watch it is just too high. The studio has provided a perfectly legal and equitable way for you to watch it. But no, you decide that $15 to watch a movie legally is too great a price, so you break the law and illegally download an illegally distributed copy that originally came from some other schlub that actually bought the DVD and illegally copied it.

Taking your arguments to an extreme, it would be perfectly ok in your world for one person to buy the DVD, copy it, and distribute it to the entire world. The studio would receive a total of $20 for their $30 million production, but that’s ok, to you that’s fair.

No, what is fair is for you to just not watch the movie. You do without. You wait for it to hit channel 13 and sit through the commercials instead. That’s the honest way. Sad but true. Anything short of that is stealing. As far as your “willing to distribute for free” nonsense, of course he is! He stole it, didn’t pay a dime for it! And even if he did, it is illegal to distribute a copy of the movie, song, book, etc, regardless of what percentage of the society disagrees. Start a grass roots movement to get the laws changed. Fight city hall, as it were. But do not try to “prove” that downloading a copy of a movie is not illegal by shoehorning the idea into a superficial analogy made up of Econ babble. You make yourself look deluded and irrational.

You can look at air all you want (I got enough of the hot kind out of your whimsical farce), but you can’t change the fact that all of these “advanced protocol” transactions originate with stealing, a situation where two parties (studio and thief) are not in agreement, as you pointed out. This little tidbit that you talked around until the last nullifies your entire charade. All you have is ill-gotten supply and greedy dishonorable demand.

TF is clearly pro file sharing. So why do I always see comments accusing file sharers of stealing? If these people hate file sharing so much, why did they visit a site like this? It’s clearly labeled as a pro file sharing community.

It’s obvious that the RIAA or some anti piracy group is paying people to post these comments. Why not do some investigation. Can you trace their ips? Or somehow trace them through their email? That would make a great article![/quote]

Hahaha! How naive of you Norm to think that everyone on this, or any website, is in total agreement with the content. To think that the only reason someone would disagree with you is because “the RIAA or some anti piracy group is paying people” is delusional.

I envy you Norm. It must be quite an exciting existence to see conspiracies and plots around every corner. Get fired from your job? It’s not your fault, the RIAA planned your downfall. It sounds like the plot to a two bit Hollywood thriller. Why not go steal one and keep telling yourself that it’s not illegal. You may actually believe it someday.

(Opinion not paid for by the RIAA, CIA, Boy Scouts of America, or Amway)

If they loose a few bucks, they’ll learn their lesson and it won’t kill them. I think about ANY other issue related to P2P is more important than this one. And I read this freaking article about 20 million times on here already. If you have nothing to talk about, it’s ok to shut up. Especially if you’re going to wrap yourself in your preacher cloth and bitch about monetizing from torrents when half of the posts here are just padding BS (like this very post) to keep the revenue stream coming in.

Hypocrites…[/quote]

Wow get the fuck off the site then idiot, if you dont like it then leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head.[/quote]

Wow, “love it or leave it”. Great rebuttal, Rycon, did you construct that counter-arguement all by yourself?[/quote]

I guess I have to clarify this again to another person who hasn’t really turned on there brain. That wasn’t a ‘Love it or leave it’ counter-argument, he was complaining about the site, and at that point when your calling the site owners ‘hypocrites’ you need the get off the site.. because you obviously don’t agree on the sites content. He could of proved his point without attacking the owners for simply posting news. So please.. read the entire post and think about it before barking off another pointless response.[/quote]

Whether Wack was complaining about the site or the posts, an offhanded “get the fuck off the site” without any indication as to why is still a very poor response. You didn’t offer any sort of rationale for your venom until you were called on it. Your opinion, justified or not, is irrelevant when you can’t or don’t even explain why you feel that way.

So next time please…think, and come up with a coherent criticism, before barking off a totally meaningless response.

The industry thinks of their customers as scum. Scum with money though. Unfortunately for the industry, people are not as stupid as they would like them to be. Eventually all their propaganda and lies will backfire. I can assure you, many people who have never used file-sharing at all and spent a lot of money on DVDs and CDs are sick and tired of the industry and boycott them silently. Industrial commercialization of art was of course a mistake in the first place. It worked for some time and it would have worked much longer if the industry wasn’t so inhumane, greedy and full of themselves. If a parasite becomes too selfish, it’s just killing itself.

TF is clearly pro file sharing. So why do I always see comments accusing file sharers of stealing? If these people hate file sharing so much, why did they visit a site like this? It’s clearly labeled as a pro file sharing community.

It’s obvious that the RIAA or some anti piracy group is paying people to post these comments. Why not do some investigation. Can you trace their ips? Or somehow trace them through their email? That would make a great article!

So illegal/immoral activities are fine with BitTorrent so long as they aren’t annoying to the users? That’s the line we don’t cross? Everything else is fair game?

Either way, if someone wants to go illegally download the latest Coldplay album and is too much of a moron to figure out that they downloaded a trojan instead, I do not have much sympathy. Learn to use a computer.[/quote]

Bit torrent isn’t illegal or immoral. Bit Torrent has many legitimate uses that don’t involve copyright infringement, and many of us consider even some forms of piracy moral.

There has never been any widespread or viruslike distribution of rootkits for Linux. As a concept, rootkits have existed for Unix since the end of the seventies and the principles could be also applied to Linux. But you have to have root access to install such a system, inserting a music CD or visiting a website is not enough. A hacker “might” be able to install a rootkit in a badly maintained system but that is something else.

In fact there have never been any widespread viruses, trojans, spyware or adware for Linux. Proof of concepts have existed but how could they be installed or spread? Should every Linux user with his particular dialect/version of Linux start to compile and install some suspicious code? I don’t think so.

BTW, is everybody under 15 here?

http://www.adverit.com

If you still use Windows you’re a fucking fool and deserve whatever rootkit you get. Windows is the biggest piece of shit ever.[/quote]

Rootkits appeared on Linux before they ever appeared on Windows.

It was 1996, to be precise.

It fills my body with absolute disgust (and freight) to have to write something like this to such a strong, large fan base as yourself. Now days it seems as if any person with 3 dollars and a can of green beans can act like me, and well, fact is, it hurts, it really hurts, it really hurts, it really hurts,,,,. So to make a long story short, (there are fakes out there ruining the true rhymes that can only come out of the true Rapper Alliance lips/keyboard!). I am hereby retiring. It was fun, TorrentFreaks.

Deeply caring,
but never sharing,
nigga bust my chops and he’ll be pairin’ with my mack 10 NIIGGGGGGAG NIGGGAGAA WHAT IMA BEAST
Rapper Alliance (The Real One, nigga)

Three guesses as to the brain size of this hired cockwarmer.

Walnut? Pea? I’d wager it’s on the scale of a deer tick.[/quote]

…and that _before_ it’s dined.

Three guesses as to the brain size of this hired cockwarmer.

Walnut? Pea? I’d wager it’s on the scale of a deer tick.[/quote]

[...] _before_ it’s eaten, no doubt. =]

Three guesses as to the brain size of this hired cockwarmer.

Walnut? Pea? I’d wager it’s on the scale of a deer tick.

Download speed slow?
accelerate for torrents download Speed up 100% and protect HD.
http://www.soft4kids.com

how ironic…

Gallus[/quote]

lol… Their graph is kinda disappointing and pretty obviously bad. Anyway I’d rather use an exponential graph to decide my BT dl speed than a logarithmic graph. I hope not too many people fell for that.

The haters should remember they didn’t know shit when they came out of that stinking garbage dumb called their mom’s womb.

Your little fetus ass was worthless, too bad that whore called mom didn’t abort you.

But, I’ll do my part and pray that all those assholes who were noobs at one time but hate noobs today get cancer.

Dear God, please finish the job and give these assholes colon cancer.

Please let them bleed and die a horrible fucking death.

Thank you God, Amen.

This sounds like site admins don’t control/know what ads are running on there sites.

I was already leery of clicking any ad on websites I vist.
More so now.

If they loose a few bucks, they’ll learn their lesson and it won’t kill them. I think about ANY other issue related to P2P is more important than this one. And I read this freaking article about 20 million times on here already. If you have nothing to talk about, it’s ok to shut up. Especially if you’re going to wrap yourself in your preacher cloth and bitch about monetizing from torrents when half of the posts here are just padding BS (like this very post) to keep the revenue stream coming in.

Hypocrites…[/quote]

Wow get the fuck off the site then idiot, if you dont like it then leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head.[/quote]

Wow, “love it or leave it”. Great rebuttal, Rycon, did you construct that counter-arguement all by yourself?[/quote]

I guess I have to clarify this again to another person who hasn’t really turned on there brain. That wasn’t a ‘Love it or leave it’ counter-argument, he was complaining about the site, and at that point when your calling the site owners ‘hypocrites’ you need the get off the site.. because you obviously don’t agree on the sites content. He could of proved his point without attacking the owners for simply posting news. So please.. read the entire post and think about it before barking off another pointless response.

I very much prefer the word beginner which is much more neutral.

Anyway. There are several things to be considered here. First of all, malware such as these should be illegal. Of course, that doesn’t help when criminals in hard to reach places do it, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t atleast put the foot down in civilized countries.

Now on to issue at hand. There are several levels of stupidty and non-stupidty involved here. Take for example shareaza.com. A well known site for a well known program that was highjacked. You can’t really except every single person that goes to that site to know that it is has been highjacked. As such, I feel pretty sorry for those who fell for it, trusting information that used to be correct.

However, this article is about people who click on random banner and download/buy completly random products without even doing the most basic fact checking.

I simply can’t feel as sorry for people who fall for such scams. I will tell beginners to be careful and not trust things, but that is about as much I can do. After that it is up to each user to use their brains.

I still want to see the scammer punished though. Just because I don’t have as much empathy for the victim doesn’t make the act itself any better. It is simply a crime where I don’t feel much empathy towards either side.

And more than anything else, I blame bad eductation systems (not targetted at the US, but pretty much every country) for not being able to teach kids to be critical of unknown sources.

Really, the arguement that “I’m not stealing nothing” is REALLY getting old, especially when it cannot be defended with even the barest shred of validity.[/quote]

Copying = Ctrl+C
Stealing = Ctrl+X

As for your first argument. Transferring data over my internet cable does costs money, as does storing it on my harddrive.

This is however irrelevant, as economics has nothing to do with being able to charge money for things. Neither does economics have nothing about getting payed or paying for anything you do.

Economics is simply about the matching up the demands of the seller and buyer resulting in a possible trade if both parties agree, and no trade if the parties don’t agree. In many caes, such trade is done without money ever getting involved.

In the case of file sharing, the buyer thinks that the seller is charging too much for the distribution and instead chooses to trade with someone who is willing to distribute for free, although often with a hidden agreement that he should distribute it to someone else in exchange.

More advanced protocols such as bittorrent splits the information into pieces making it easier for both parties to ensure that the other party forfills his hidden agreement by conducting a more or less fair exchange of information.

As information is cheap to replicate, this works out great for both parties in the transaction. Of course, the original distributor that wanted to charge a lot of money for doing the same thing isn’t too happy about it.

The biggest misunderstanding that people have about economics is that Market Value is the same as the Real Value. This is a complete misunderstanding. It is actually the opposite.

The further apart the market value and the real value is, the better. Just look at air. You would spend a large part of your salary on air if you had to, but fortunally the market value is low (as in free) because of the great supply. This is a huge economic boon for society as a whole.

When market value and real value is close, it is usually because of either high production costs, low supply or both. In either case, society will profit if production costs goes down or supply increases.

Yes, it is more expensive to create a piece of information in the first place. This is why a goverment instituted distribution monopoly exists, which is pretty much the opposite of a market. However, a large percentage of the population disagree with it as they see the huge efficency losses it causes and are willing to illegally bypass it. Of course they are saving money on it also (which is how they recognize the inefficencies). Filesharing is a far better trade.

And no, stealing isn’t a trade since there aren’t two parties that are in agreement.

Really, the arguement that “I’m not stealing nothing” is REALLY getting old, especially when it cannot be defended with even the barest shred of validity.[/quote]
[quote comment="301199"]
Internet connections cost money. Hard disks cost money. burners and removable media cost money. Either way, you’re paying for a product – you’re just not paying the people who made it.

And if piracy is stealing, point out a *single* person who has been convicted of theft because of it. You can’t, can you? because it’s not stealing – you’re not denying someone anything, it’s copyright infringement. The only reason people pull out words like stealing and theft is because they’re emotive and help fight the propaganda war.

@Rintaro: I hope you’re getting paid for this, cz otherwise you’re a fucking idiot.

Tap water drinkers deny water bottle manufacturers of billions of dollars and the wail and gansh teeth when someones takes advantage of THEM. What a bunch of hypocritical opportunists.

Really, the denying someone of income argument is getting really old.[/quote]

Lol, tap water costs money. Bottled water costs money. Either way, you are paying for a product. You’ll find that in an Economics 1A book, page one.

Really, the arguement that “I’m not stealing nothing” is REALLY getting old, especially when it cannot be defended with even the barest shred of validity.

So illegal/immoral activities are fine with BitTorrent so long as they aren’t annoying to the users? That’s the line we don’t cross? Everything else is fair game?

Either way, if someone wants to go illegally download the latest Coldplay album and is too much of a moron to figure out that they downloaded a trojan instead, I do not have much sympathy. Learn to use a computer.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense that the other posters should disagree with your post, Daniel.

Number 1, they are in total denial that sharing copyrighted files is illegal. Number 2, these scammers are actually affecting THEIR pockets, not the RIAA (generic term for whoever they are stealing copyrighted material from). Number 3, based on the ‘arguments’ that are used in here, it’s not a computer they need to learn how to use, it’s common sense.

Tap water drinkers deny water bottle manufacturers of billions of dollars and the wail and gansh teeth when someones takes advantage of THEM. What a bunch of hypocritical opportunists.

Really, the denying someone of income argument is getting really old.

Innocent BitTorrent users. yeah.[/quote]

Not everything you download using bittorrent protocol is copyrighted, idiot.[/quote]

YEAH!!! About 1% of 1% of the traffic is made up of actual legal downloads!

If they loose a few bucks, they’ll learn their lesson and it won’t kill them. I think about ANY other issue related to P2P is more important than this one. And I read this freaking article about 20 million times on here already. If you have nothing to talk about, it’s ok to shut up. Especially if you’re going to wrap yourself in your preacher cloth and bitch about monetizing from torrents when half of the posts here are just padding BS (like this very post) to keep the revenue stream coming in.

Hypocrites…[/quote]

Wow get the fuck off the site then idiot, if you dont like it then leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head.[/quote]

Wow, “love it or leave it”. Great rebuttal, Rycon, did you construct that counter-arguement all by yourself?

Downloaders deny artists of billions of dollars in revenue and then wail and gnash teeth when someone takes advantage of THEM. What a bunch of hypocritical opportunists.