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Canada Set For Mass BitTorrent Lawsuits, Anti-Piracy Company Warns

Following an important court ruling last week, thousands of Canadians are now at risk of being exposed to mass BitTorrent lawsuits. That’s the message from the boss an anti-piracy outfit who says is company has been monitoring BitTorrent networks for infringements and has amassed data on millions of users. The court ruling involved just 50 Canadians but another case on the horizon involves thousands of alleged pirates.

As reported here on TorrentFreak every other week, copyright trolls are alive and well in the United States and Europe.

“Pay us a cash settlement,” the trolls advise, “or we’ll make your life a misery.”

While Canadians are known for their love of online file-sharing, in contrast they have engaged in their pastime largely unhindered for more than a decade. But a court ruling last week has the potential to change the landscape in the largely sharing-tolerant country.

The case involves NGN Prima Productions Inc, a Canadian company active in the US copyright troll scene gathering cash settlements from alleged sharers of its action movie “Recoil.”

Not content with trolling within the confines of the U.S., recently NGN filed a lawsuit in the Federal Court in Montreal.

The company claimed that data collected by anti-piracy company Canipre between September 1 and October 31 showed that 50 IP addresses allocated to four ISPs – 3 Web Corp., Access Communications Co-Operative Ltd., ACN Inc., and Distributel Communications Ltd – had engaged in copyright infringement of Recoil.

To this end, the ISPs should be ordered to hand over the names and addresses of the subscribers in question so that NGN could pursue them for damages, the company insisted.

On Monday November 19 the Federal Court in Montreal granted the request and ordered the four ISPs to hand over the data within two weeks, in Microsoft Excel format and encrypted on a CD.

Barry Logan, managing director of Canipre, says that this event marks the beginning of serious copyright enforcement in Canada. He claims that over the past five months his company has collected data on one million Canadians engaged in BitTorrent sharing and the decision of the Federal Court means that each one could face a damages claim in court.

Of course, what these individuals will actually receive is a letter from Logan’s paymasters at the movie and music studios asking them to settle the case for cash instead. It will come as no surprise that Canipre also works with the porn industry.

“I don’t think we have to limit this to just teenagers downloading Justin Bieber’s last record,” he said. “We represent a lot of mature titles that would be of interest to the 30/40/50 crowd.”

But while the United States has punishing statutory damages of $150,000 per item infringed, non-commercial statutory damages in Canada are capped at CAD$5000 ($5,038 US) meaning the fear factor will be considerably smaller.

Will Canadians feel compelled to pay? We may soon find out.

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  • MadAsASnake

    On IP addies? so at best 10% of those will actually be infringers and they have no way at all of knowing which 10%. 10% is nowhere near accurate enough to justify any demands and identities should not be revealed on this basis.

    • SS7

      “Pay us a cash settlement,” the trolls advise, “or we’ll make your life a misery.”

      My advice
      LOL i will never pay you mr troll but i will give you some bullets stright in your shit brain , just try to make make my life a misery and i will take your life , in that way i will save others by you – fat parasite , even i make jail for a crime – that is nothing , these crimes are for good and will save people by your tirany , will save this world by your shit existence as an parasite , i will win becouse i will be alive but you and your familly will be dead thats im very shure !

      • Guest

        Odds are you’ll get a smaller punishment for murder than for file-sharing anyway. After all, we already have a copyright troll on record here stating that file-sharing is the most vile crime imaginable.

      • Guest

        Welcome to the internet Mr Shakespeare.

        • Menno Siebach

          love it – what a twerp that SS7 is.

          im sure the LAW ENFORCEMENT SUPPORT folks have already swooped in and hes getting put really good in the ass now.

        • torontodude

          Ahhh, great, Menno is back! Are you really Barry Logan or just a$$ f*cking him?

      • Predator

        Ya, Barry Logan can keep the change in lead. That will stop this parasite from destroying our society for his own profit.

        • Menno Siebach

          you must be in math class or is it social studies this week? do you get a spare after lunch?

      • wesvvv

        You’d piss your pants if faced with actual lawyers. YAWN.

        • SS7

          You wesvvv, you slave .you makes me laugh..speak without you know me , i like to meet you and see me face to face and after speak,im shure you will piss your pants, im not afraid about any lawyers about any police about anyone becouse i know nobody can escape from death , i dont belive in these lies of the system – call laws , so is very simple to me if i kill first , i dont belive and i dont respect your laws , i fuck your laws or any laws , becouse laws is not maded be me or people ,so fuck them all laws, im lawbreaker and i will be as long i will be alive , i can kill a human like you or like actual lawyers ,politicians,trolls , policemans, like all slaves of system just with my hands and even just with one of my hand ,i ve skills and i can use it almoust anything like a weapon to kill , for me is very simple and without any regret ,actual system makes me to be like that and i dont regret anything becouse in actual system if you want to be free you must fight , you must break laws and try to escape , when cant escape you must choose best solution to survive and use bribe , relations to escape from jail , thats how system works

          Can i asking you wesvvv do you fight in a war ? do you kill a person ? Personal i fight in a war and i kill many , first time i was schoked but after i understand if i cant kill i will be killed by them without any regret , after i coem back at home i realized whos the real enemy in fact – these parasites who build this system like a cancer , they do everything to manipulate people to foolish them to enslave them , these greedy fat bastards who think they can do all they want becouse have money , they must be killed and destroyed they terrorize people ,they lie and destroy other people lifes , they make and pay for wars and use people like a tools

          So wesvvv go and fight in a real war when real people is killed everyday and after speak to me about laws, about shit people without capability to survive one day ouside the system like lawyer , with just one kick i can kill them or i can make them to feel hard pain

      • Menno Siebach

        are you really that stupid? like get a life buddy – this is about free movies ..sorry, that means you’d half to get off your fat lazy ass to get the newspaper classifieds.

        im sure they have the cops on you by now, i would.

        • torontodude

          Menno, go back to your boyfriend, I’m sure he’s lonely watching all that gay porn you and him have been buying, not downloading :)

    • Guestos

      Yup and too bad for them I am sharing my access with 7 other people… I have no logs and I have enough money to stall this in the courts for the next 20 years… Fuck them!

      • MadAsASnake

        All you have to do is deny all knowledge and refuse further co-operation. Unfortunately, a lot of people are either:
        - confused or frightened into believing they have some sort of responsibility
        - attempt to give a reasonable explanation (which only sees them sued – because this simply gives the trolls some real evidence)
        Unfortunately, both of these groups often end up paying which makes the exercise profitable.

        • Anon

          “All you have to do is deny all knowledge and refuse further co-operation.”

          Good plan.
          We’ve come to call that the “JoelTenenbaum/JammieThomas defense.” lol

        • MadAsASnake

          Yes, really. In the UK at least, the only step left is to sue – and as you have NO EVIDENCE, this doesn’t work out well for you. Fat Andy put that scam beyond doubt (though there is a pathetic little pornographer trying to revive it). Even better, the ludicrous idea of “statutory damages” does not exist here – which means you have to PROVE damages – in the UK at least, there is no prospect of getting more than a single copy – the idea that a little girl listening to her favourite artist costs the producers £100000′s would be thrown out for the idiocy it is. Disproportionate costs are generally disallowed, you could not run a case for what you would get back. Tanenbaum would have been laughing his face off at you had you tried that here :)

        • Anyone

          @Anon
          not all countries have a corrupt and fucked up system like the US

        • Anon

          @ anyone.

          “not all countries have a corrupt and fucked up system like the US”

          If they want a rich and vibrant marketplace in digital products and internet distribution in the future, they will. :-)

          And the United States has the economic clout to see to it.
          Stock up on lube. :-)

        • Anyone

          so killing the cloud storage business, driving hosters out, and creating an environment of uncertainty is the future?

          good luck with that

        • Guest

          @Anon:

          “And the United States has the economic clout to see to it.”

          Not for much longer. By the way, how’s the view from that cliff?

        • Guest

          @MAFIAA employee Anon

          We’re talking about copyright troll extortion artists, son. They have nothing to do with what happened to Joel and Jamie . Try to keep up.

          The reason why people should deny all knowledge, refuse further cooperation, and threaten to take it to court is because doing that makes copyright trolls fold like a cheap suit. They absolutely DO NOT want any of these settlement cases to go to trial.

          A. Because it takes just a few rulings against them to establish a precedent that copyright trolling is illegal
          And B., because they cannot prove that somebody committed infringement if they deny it.

          The trolls are actually fucking helpless and their whole scheme depends on people failing to stand up for themselves. So don’t do that. Somebody gets an extortion letter, they need to hit the trolls back like a ton of bricks and demand them to take it to court.

          Then the trolls will suddenly drop it.

          Of course… An even better option would be to bring a lawsuit against the trolls for attempted extortion. Then they would not even have the option for avoiding a trial. And this time, they’d be in the defendants’ seat. With no legal justification to defend their operation.

          The lulz would be immeasurable

        • Guest

          lol

          The United States’ economy is in horrible shambles, due in large part to rich sociopaths(such as the ones running the MAFIAA) bleeding the citizens dry of their money and then hoarding it for themselves, refusing to put it back into the economy.

          If every country were to follow the U.S.’s lead, they’d be destitute and owned by China.

        • MadAsASnake

          @anon – c’mon – two in a row and no reply? Haven’t got one?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @Anon

          “We’ve come to call that the “JoelTenenbaum/JammieThomas defense.” lol”

          You mean that in the sense that it will not work once in a thousand? Good one, Anon.

          But then again, when I look out the window I see something quite other than the hordes of pirates you seem to envision, parading in chains down the boulevard.

          So I assume that whatever “reality” is like solely within the confines of your own skull, you aren’t letting the one outside intrude on your thought processes.

          If it did you would know quite well by now that the “ip-adress mass extortion scam” isn’t viable any longer since most judges even on a local level – and every judge on the higher level – has been very consistently ruling that just an ip adress isn’t proof.

          Indeed, there would have been no need for your voluntary “six-strikes scheme” involving ISP’s if the law actually gave you even a hope and a prayer. It doesn’t. Not anymore.

        • Facefuck

          @ Anon FUCK YOU FAGGOT. (no offence homos) Better stuck up on some lube for yourself after we deal with the anti-piracy regime and put you fuckers in jail one by one. Gettin lots of love from one of your countries biggest industry products: Inmates! :DDD

          The US was almost bancrupt how many times in the past few years? Sitting on their copyright monopoly and claiming to be the top shit. Printing devaluated money like a motherfker. Inventing Too-Big-To-FAIL. Dream on. I guess it is the only thing left for sucha brainfucked deadbeat like Anon.

        • Guest

          stupid anon, he needs his profits in lead duckets too.

      • Menno Siebach

        what a bad ass MOFO you are, huh!

        Dear Mr. Computer ScienTITS:

        For I have seen the list and you sit at line 16! |Off to the gallows!

    • Nick

      well, I will re-send him a letter by : Thank you for the paper toilet, can I have more?

    • Ole Juul

      With use of NAT in some places you won’t even get 1% let alone 10%. I’m in Canada and my small ISP covers more than three different small towns with one single IP. I guess they’d just have to hand over their whole subscriber list. How would that work I wonder?

    • Menno Siebach

      boy, you’re pretty stoked!

  • Midas

    IP =/= Person

    • Hellscreamgold

      Which is why there’s more reason for ISPs to give each customer a fixed IP address so then that IP CAN be associated to a single address. Then, when people have their service, make it part of the agreement that the person who agreed to sign up for the service is responsible for any traffic going through it.

      • Anyone

        which is nonsense

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Um. You need to go back and read “networking for dummies”.

        Once you have and have a clue, come back and start offering suggestions on what ISP’s should and shouldn’t do.

        I’m reminded here of a mechanic who’s been given the advice on putting square wheels on every car in order to fix “speeding” and who is now giving the guy suggesting it a very funny look…

      • MadAsASnake

        The Internet is not there solely for the benefit of Copyright and Porn Extortionists. Stupid Idea.

      • Anon

        I think you are onto something there my friend. I don’t know whats worse, these pirates living a life of entitlement, or their abortionist friends killing innocent babies. Most pirates are baby killers and unbelievers you know, and are the first to run and hide when the military needs them to serve God and country. If everyone had a single IP, they couldn’t get away with all the theft they perpetrate. You just wait, we know who most of them are and God knows who all of these perps are, and they are going to jail, every last one of these miscreants.

        We can eat some popcorn and have some hot chocolate while these bad people pay the price for their sins.

        • Anyone

          what’s wrong with abortion?

        • icec0ld

          WTF does god, abortion and babies have to with anything here? Take this crap to your facebook or something.

        • djnforce9

          @icec0ld: Absolutely nothing but you must understand that copyright trolls like Anon see anything that threatens their multi-billion dollar enterprise as pure evil. Kind of ironic considering how his brethren overseas are ok with sending police to arrest nine year old girls sharing a single album.

          I doubt this scheme will fly in Canada given all the negative publicity it’s gotten. Anon is delusional as always.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “I don’t know whats worse, these pirates living a life of entitlement, or their abortionist friends killing innocent babies. Most pirates are baby killers and unbelievers you know…”

          Troll detected. Unless of course we are supposed to believe that even a religious dogmatist would equate copying a file with the taking of a life (which is what the fundie view stands for).

          Then again we could now make the case that you are a thoroughly confused copyright fanatic from the Westboro baptist church.

          “If everyone had a single IP, they couldn’t get away with all the theft they perpetrate…”

          Given the trolling above, I suspect this is more of the same but for those who didn’t get the joke…”won’t ever happen”, “yes, we certainly would” and “And copying still isn’t ‘theft’”.

          Obvious troll is obvious. And troll is obviously troll.

        • ForestSilverwood

          Anyone that runs from war is VERY smart.

        • harry krishna

          sarcasm is a tough sell for this bunch

        • Embrace Change

          Copying isn’t theft.

        • Mar

          i LOLd very VERY hard at OP. my fave bit: “serve God and country” LOL LOL LOL you poor bastard you

        • Gee

          @Anyone
          @icec0ld
          Well you see the more abortions that happen, the less money these guys can extort of the parents of 9-year-old. Mafiaa has no lows.

        • Who

          SINS? LOL again Anon is still a moron.

        • ZooKeeper

          Here folks in this cage is your common everyday Copyright Troll. You can recognize it by the sounds it makes.I believe in its mind it makes sounds which it believes are coherrent sentences and thoughts. But we all know differently and beg to differ.

        • Guest

          I think you are onto something there my friend. I don’t know whats worse, these pirates living a life of entitlement, or their abortionist friends killing innocent babies. Most pirates are baby killers and unbelievers you know, and are the first to run and hide when the military needs them to serve God and country. If everyone had a single IP, they couldn’t get away with all the theft they perpetrate. You just wait, we know who most of them are and God knows who all of these perps are, and they are going to jail, every last one of these miscreants.

          We can eat some popcorn and have some hot chocolate while these bad people pay the price for their sins.”

          Bravo! Well done. It’s gotten to the point that I honestly can’t tell whether this post came from the real MAFIAA troll Anon, or someone else making a parody of his usual posts.

        • Asd

          guys, anon is being sarcastic. cmon.

        • Predator

          “what’s wrong with abortion?”

          I support very late term abortion for entertainment industry executives.

        • MadAsASnake

          @Predator

          About 30 years post-term sounds about right.

        • Anon

          I agree with myself and Hellscreamgold. We should give everyone on the Internet the same fixed IP address. That way, they wouldn’t get away with any of the thefts because you would not need a court order to find out their IP address. Everybody would have the same IP address, and it would be public knowledge, so nobody would be able to hide their crimes of abortion, theft and rape of file and babies.

        • Anon

          Oh FFS, that’s not me and anyone who knows my tone knows that’s not me.

          Abortion? please.

        • Frank Sinatra

          lol that’s a funny one dude

        • nostrafarious

          And once it becomes impossible to share files through the internet then it will be taken to the streets where it will be impossible to stop. Japanese video stores have done this for decades selling bootlegged/copies of videos. Sure every now and then a store gets busted but for every one taken down 20 more start up. And they don’t need to be brick and mortar stores either. It can be flea markets, side walk sellers, or private “sharing” parties. Sharing can go underground just as easy as it can be removed from the internet, and then your sick greedy corporate fuckers can go fuck themselves. The people always get the last laugh.

          And maybe this is exactly where sharing needs to go. The internet for sharing was pretty much doomed to failure from the beginning anyway. The fascist sociopaths such as who you work for will eventually pay off the politicians to pass internet ID laws requiring log on to use the net. Once the anonymous use of the internet goes then you will be able also smell the smoke from the ovens as the world enters the new and improved police state. I hope the media pigs are paying you well to be the traitor to the people that you are, because at some point people will fight back and you will find yourself on the losing end of a rope attached by someone less forgiving than me.

          Black markets have never been able to be controlled, may you die trying.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @Anon

          “Oh FFS, that’s not me and anyone who knows my tone knows that’s not me.”

          Actually, given the tone, the diatribe, and the relevance of the contents of the message, I see very little difference between that “Anon” and the usual pro-copyright maximalist “Anon”.

          Are you claiming we are somehow magically meant to see the difference between two liars hell-bent on outdoing one another based on nothing more than which particular lie they are currently pushing?

          Sorry, my not-good man. If we were that good, we might be able to identify people by ip numbers as well.

        • FuckYourChrist

          Enjoy paying your tithe you fool, you do pay that, right? You give all of your wealth to your overLord, right? You’re supposed to, or you’re going to the Hell you believe in. Fool.

          I do pirate, pretty much everything unless it’s available on Steam. I also support abortion. Fetuses should be used for stem cell research, to better all of humanity, but ignorant fools such as yourself stand in the way with your antiquated and obsolete way of thinking. Thanks for ruining life for the rest of us, idiot!

        • Ole Juul

          @Anon
          You are obviously not a troll, but because of the literacy level of many posters here, they will assume your are. It’s too bad that even when someone like you is on their side, they will put you down. However, this being an international publication I suspect that many are not native English speakers and I would excuse them because of that.

        • Fuckoffanon

          What the fuck are you on about? Comparing piracy and abortion? Serving in the military. You really are a troll.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Still wouldn’t work because people can illegally hack into networks, use it in an infringing way without the person’s knowledge, etc. etc. etc.

        Come on, Netjillpirater…… we know you by now and know your insanity.

        • Guest

          We all know by now that Ntjillpirate will only argue that the account holder is responsible for all action on the account and should be the one held responsible and be the payer of all copyright infringement on that account and if they have an open wi-fi then it there responsibility to make sure that it is password protected so it can’t be hacked ans should pay up if someone uses it for illegal activity.

        • Gee

          Start doing that en-masse, eventually the law will get thrown out for lack of evidence.

        • Pelham123

          Most people already have “fixed” IP addresses. I toll the troll post as self-parody.

      • Guest

        Better hope no one hacks into your wifi router and goes on a torrenting spree on your account. It’s easier to do than you think.

      • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

        That’s the Internet you want….

        Question: Is it the Internet you can get?

      • RIAAtarded

        That isn’t practical or possible there is no retail network solution that can’t be compromised and rather easily with a few simple tools. Hell just sitting on my couch writing this I have 9 available networks. Get a decent antenna I can have range up to a few kilometers so my potential targets increase exponentially and those targets have no ability to stop me other then not have internet at all which isn’t practical. So should they be held responsible for what I do on their network? Of course not, worse yet nothing has the logging ability to even notify or track the fact i’ve done it. IP doesn’t = a person and it never should you can’t make people responsible for an object that operates autonomously 24/7 with flawed security then take a IP address collected under less then stellar circumstances as proof of guilt. It is the same reason the car doesn’t get the ticket the driver does.

        Not even entirely sure why they are bothering. It is ‘up to a max of $5000′ doesn’t mean that is the award they’ll get and it covers all infringement doesn’t matter if you have 1 song or a server farm full and if the later how do you divide it among the parties involved and it pretty much assures you can’t be chased for anything before the case if it goes to court. Pretty sure it won’t though legal retainers here are the award amount.

      • Guest

        @Hellscreamgold

        Hahaha, I love it how pro-industry shills are always technologicially clueless.

        Okay, look, bro: even “static IP” adresses aren’t really static. You can’t give every customer a truly fixed IP. Nice try, though.

        • MadAsASnake

          I know. And even if you did this, you’d still have the dire tracing to the home router and no idea beyond that – so instead of about 10% accuracy, they might get 12-15%. What is incredible is how far they have got with such totally false data.

        • Menno Siebach

          Ever heard of IP reconcilliation ?

          I cant believe you turds really go for this shit.

      • Ardvaark

        At least inform yourself before commenting on something, because you’re coming across as completely clueless.

        first there aren’t enough IP addresses of every machine in the world hence the NAT and your router at home (so several machines can share an IP).

        Second Static IP’s aren’t 100% static

        Third with the way the networks changes every single second! it would be impossible to keep communications going in the long term without a way to update said changes on the topology of the network so Dyn IP is needed

        Finally even if static IP was indeed possible on a global scale there’s nothing preventing me from hijacking my neighbor’s network, using a VPN, router, or simply encrypting my communications so you can’t tell apart the latest music hit from some other legitimate file.

        • Gah D. Lee

          ysosrs? You need to stop feeding the trolls, they’re getting too fat for me to move their corpses off my door step.

      • Masau Fuku

        Right. So when I use backtrace to get onto my neighbors wireless network that’s “secured” with WEP because that’s what the idiots at Charter put on it and my neighbors don’t know any better, they should be sued when I decide to upload a cam of the newest Batman movie (or whatever is in theaters these days…I don’t pay much attention to films).

        • Masau Fuku

          Er…backtrack. Fuck my inability to type and/or proofread.

  • Shamu

    This is the kind of music we need to know about.
    Not the next thing Kim “Dotcom” is going to launch that’s going to make him more rich & famous (yeah I know his funds were seized, that doesn’t mean he wont get SOME of it back – at one point in his life he had MILLIONS and didn’t give a fuck about any of us, and he probably still doesn’t).

    Wow I hope Canada doesnt allow the MPAA/RIAA to walk all over them and corrupt/fuck up their government.

    • Shamu

      news* not Music.
      Hell yeah, SwiftKey auto correction!

    • Whale

      Hes using his publicity to his economic advantage by creating a shitstorm of hype & “excitement” for his business ventures, and creating extreme hate towards the United States entertainment associations, fueling the popularity and anticipation of anything he says he is going to launch.
      So, yeah. I agree.

      • Guest

        He also said he’s going to become a major supporter of the Electronic Frontier Foundation when all this MAFIAA mess is over, and he wants to help revive the Pacific Fiber project and provide free fiber optic internet access to NZ homes. So even if what Shamu said was once true, it looks like the home visit from the ghosts of christmas past back in January was a wake up call for him.

        • Gmail

          If you actually think he will do any of that, you are higher than he is. He isn’t going to do jack squat for you, or anyone else.

        • Guest

          @Gmail:

          “If you actually think he will do any of that, you are higher than he is. He isn’t going to do jack squat for you, or anyone else.”

          Let’s just wait until he’s able to give the DOJ its much-needed rabies shot, and then judge him by his actions after the Megaupload case is dropped, m’kay?

          Otherwise, if you’d like to go ahead and judge him without anything to back up your claims or speculations, you’ll have to get in line behind the U.S. Government.

        • Whale

          Hes GOING to? Hah what a joke.
          Oh, so NOW he cares about the EFF? What happened when he had millions? What was he donating to?

    • torontoguy

      Stephen Harper’s conservative government doesn’t care about people’s rights at all, they are in power to drop the hammer on people, first and foremost. Of course, this doesn’t include crimes like murder, drunk driving, illegal drugs, pedophilia, assault or even child pornography. No, the conservatives are for big business and they endorse the courts going after file sharers and copyright infringements. A $5000 fine for downloading music or a movie is more than a lot of people pay for much more serious crimes (that really f**k up a lot of people along the way) yet the government still won’t lower the hammer on serious crime? Why? There’s no money in it of course.

      • Bob

        Your emotional assertions have no basis in fact and I suggest you look a what has actually gone on in our parliment. The reality has been so far that the Conservatives have not been hard on file sharing.

        Yes they are pro business but they have been better than any other party regarding a number of the serious crimes you say they don’t care about. Pro business is pro job creation and the reality under their leadership is that poor people don’t pay a penny in taxes after refunds. I made less than 10k last year and know this is true.

        Our economy has faired better than any other in the global recession under their leadership and while they certainly have their heads up their asses on certain issues (legalization of cannabis, oil sand environmental damage for example) they have had an overall positive influence on the country.

        Strident assertions prove nothing.

        • Gbobbed

          Says the guy clearly on welfare or are you just that lazy that you could only hold random jobs long enough to pull in a cool 10k?!?!?!

  • Arb1

    even though IP =/= person hasn’t stopped them from their blackmail extortion letters.

  • Anon

    “Pay us a cash settlement,” the trolls advise, “or we’ll make your life a misery.”

    Isn’t this sought of language illegal? Sounds like something I’d expect from the Mafia.

    • Moseiur Derp

      or MAFIAA!

    • Guest

      Why do you think everyone calls them the Music And Film Associations of America (MAFIAA)?

      • Guest

        Sorry, typo. I meant Music And Film Industry Associations of America.

    • torontoguy

      These trolls are a legal version of the mafia. They make money for everyone, including the courts!

      What people don’t understand is that big business and corporations OWN and RUN the civil courts in Canada (and pretty much everywhere else in the civilized world). Without companies going after smaller ones in the proverbial food chain, there’d be no civil courts. That means no plush jobs for retired judges (who often sit in on civil courts), no admin jobs, less process servers, less paralegals etc. It’s an entire system built on corporations using the law to go after the average Joe to make more $$$. You know how much someone makes in the Canadian civil court office as an admin staff? It starts at $24/hr and goes all the way up to over $40. That’s just for someone to process forms, let alone a judge who makes well over 6 figures to rule on civil cases, paralegals to file, process servers to serve documents, not to mention all the leaches and scumbag lawyers who file on behalf of these corporations too.

      All told, it’s an industry to suck out as much from people as possible, and it’s all legal.

    • Menno Siebach

      and they are here for you buddy!

  • grommy

    Resistance is futile, we own you all, you must pay us xxxxxxx money or life time slavery.

  • Hogspace

    Be nice to see an ISP that refuses to keep any IP data/logs for the customers.

    • Hellscreamgold

      Be nice to see people who don’t pirate….

      • Anyone

        you mean promote?
        every study so far has shown that piracy causes no harm but even increases the revenue of the items pirated

        but it’s nice to see a new troll-nick, the old ones were getting boring

        • Menno Siebach

          i gather those reports are from your kindergarten class? certainly of no authority!

          its okay ..i appreciate your help but your armchair commentary are of no value.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Be nice not to see “idiot-under-random-nickname-number-114″ making his lame little one-line contribution of personal opinion once again…

      • icec0ld

        There are. Surely you don’t pirate? Right?

      • Hogspace

        It’s very simple. If you don’t want people to share your “art”, don’t put it out in the public domain.
        As soon as you do it’s our property, no longer yours.
        We realise you just want to make money out of us, well sorry, we are not having it.
        Does this mean no more $100M Hollywood blockbusters? guess what, the world doesn’t give a shit.
        Want to make money from your music, get out, play gigs, sell high quality CD recordings/album art.
        The world caught up with your freeloading scams.

        • STeve-o

          In the wake of a record box-office year the answer is “no” this does not mean no more $100M Hollywood blockbusters.

        • Hogspace

          Well, I’ve not been to a cinema or rented a film or bought mainstream music for several years now, in protest at the Copytheft industry attacks on the internet. I hope many others are doing same.

        • Guest

          How do you propose bands make money if someone else puts their “high quality CD recordings / album art” out in the public domain without their permission?

        • Fredrika

          > “How do you propose bands make money if someone else puts their “high quality CD recordings / album art” out in the public domain without their permission?”

          By selling products that have an economical value of course? That possibility does not seize to exist because of filesharing, and the fact that the single particular business model of selling copies no longer has any economical value?

          The revenues in the music industry are currently higher than ever before, a growing majority of those revenues already comes from other business models than selling copies, and the artists currently make more money than ever before, in perfect working symbiosis with filesharing, so there’s really no reason for you to ask questions like that.

        • Hogspace

          That’s an entirely different matter to digital files. And my comment referred to At Gigs.
          Don’t suggest for a minute the current setup benefits musicians. Of the millions playing a few hundred artists and a few record companies/rights holders take all the money.

        • Guest

          @ Fredrika.

          Quite. However, as Hogspace says “don’t put it out in the public domain. As soon as you do it’s our property, no longer yours”. Where does the “economical value” exist (to the same extent) if the goods are available for free as a result of someone elses illegal sharing?

          Whilst I agree and acknowledge that there are additional alternative revenue streams I think it’s somewhat of a stretch to state that “the artists currently make more money than ever before”.

        • Fredrika

          > “Where does the “economical value” exist (to the same extent) if the goods are available for free as a result of someone elses illegal sharing?”

          You seem to be confused. No goods are available for free. The price for manufacturing copies however, which is a good, is free.

          The creative work in itself does not represent a good. The creative work is what goods and services are built up around the use of. There are many different such goods and services that are built up around the use of creative works, and only two lack an economical value, selling of copies and the service of selling copies on-line.

          The economical value you ask for exists in all the others products that are built up around the use of the creative work, and the economical value in those are currently higher than ever before, to a larger extent that what selling copies ever was.

          > “Whilst I agree and acknowledge that there are additional alternative revenue streams I think it’s somewhat of a stretch to state that “the artists currently make more money than ever before”.”

          It is not, it is a well known fact, and you asked the exact same question three weeks ago, you received these links then as well, and afterwards you no longer challenged that statement.

          http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/record-companies-lose-artists-gain-from-file-sharing/

          http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/artists-make-more-money-in-file-sharing-age-than-before-it/

          You did however respond with this straw-man:

          > “That aside, sales of records were not always the biggest source of revenues for the music industry. Revenue streams from repeat plays on commercial and non commercial radio stations globally far outstrip record sales (and return revenues to artists) – this has always been the case.

          Which was completely irrelevant, because i had never claimed otherwise, and the statement is also incorrect, because royalties from radio, in those countries that have such a system, not all do, was not bigger than revenues from record sales in the past for the music industry. The charts clearly show this.

          The artists however might have gotten more from radio play than record sales in the past, of that i am unsure(the charts somewhat corroborate this from 1999 and forward, but then again it does not differ between royalties from radio play and royalties from other use of their works), but if that’s the case, that’s irrelevant for this discussion, because it still diminishes the meaning of sales of copies for artists.

          On a different topic, let’s not forget that you are the ignorant and dishonest fuck who made a bunch of meaningless empty accusations against me a week or two ago, a dishonest behaviour from you that constitutes a logical fallacy. When asked to actually produce something substantial such as one single quote regarding any of my exact claims that you had a problem with, so that i could help you understand what i really wrote, you couldn’t come up with anything.

          http://torrentfreak.com/supreme-court-rejects-hearing-for-pirate-bays-peter-sunde-121108/#comment-704069541

          http://torrentfreak.com/supreme-court-rejects-hearing-for-pirate-bays-peter-sunde-121108/#comment-704023125

          http://torrentfreak.com/judge-stops-bittorrent-trolls-from-harassing-isp-account-holders-121113/#comment-710042486

          I’m still waiting.

        • Guest

          @ Hogspace “That’s an entirely different matter to digital files. And my comment referred to At Gigs. Don’t suggest for a minute the current setup benefits musicians. Of the millions playing a few hundred artists and a few record companies/rights holders take all the money. ”

          On the matter of your suggestion that artists “sell high quality CD recordings/album art” it clearly is an issue of digital files (and copies thereof) irrespective of whether or not it is sold at a gig in a store or online. You stated it yourself, once it’s “in the public domain” it is no longer under the control of the artist.

          You went on to contradict yourself by saying first “We realise you just want to make money out of us, well sorry, we are not having it.” and then you recommend that if they “Want to make money from your music, get out, play gigs, sell high quality CD recordings/album art”.

          Which is it? Are you prepared to buy “high quality CD recordings/album art” or would you just continue to consider the material in the public domain to be “our property” whether or not the artists permission was sought to put it there in the first place?

        • Hogspace

          Are you SO dumb as not to realize a lossless quality CD with great artwork in the sleeve isn’t just the music. Its something nice to have and to hold. It plays on high quality equipment. It offers an experience no digital file can. That’s why I have so many CD’s and LP’s. They can be displayed, fondled, treasured. When I see one in a friend’s house I want to go buy one too. There is real value, vested in a real product.
          Apple et all want me to pay as much for their electronic signal? fu@k right off.

        • Anyone

          @Guest
          concert experience for example cannot be copied
          for now 3D cinema also cannot be replicated by the majority of the people, at least not until 3D enters more homes
          signed copies of CDs/LPs/etc. are also (mostly) unique and not easily replicated

          there are lots of other ways to monetize your art, Amanda Palmer for example offered private concerts for her latest kickstarter which fans pooled their money together to get (or maybe some fans just had that kind of cash laying around ;))

          sueing and insulting your fans is not a road to success, neither is insisting that bits cannot be copied at near zero cost

        • Guest

          @ Anyone.

          Yes, I am aware of alterntive revenue streams and how they work and what can and cannot be “copied” per se.

          I also remember Amanda from her previous incarnation as a Dresden doll. What she elects to do with her own material is her right – nobody can knock her for that and I certainly wouldn’t but the fact is she is somewhat ahead of the game fanbase wise but she isn’t without controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Palmer#.22Oasis.22_controversy

          It is easy for people removed from the situation to make recommendations without having to qualify them. I agree with you that suing people is not the answer – but neither is making free copies of something which, in the ordinary course of business, you are expected to pay for.

          A common ground needs to be worked towards and advocates of both sides of the argument need to be pragmatic and realistic in their approaches.

        • Fredrika

          > “..but neither is making free copies of something which, in the ordinary course of business, you are expected to pay for.”

          You still don’t get it, do you? You’re never expected to pay for manufacturing something yourself, in the ordinary course of business.

          The ordinary course of business is that if you buy a good or a service, you pay for that purchase. If you don’t buy anything, but instead manufacture it yourself, there’s nothing to pay for, and there never has been.

          > “A common ground needs to be worked towards and advocates of both sides of the argument need to be pragmatic and realistic in their approaches.”

          Bullshit. The only possible solution to keep the concept of private communication is to partially dismantle the copyright monopoly and legalise all non-profit filesharing in private communication, which his the correct thing to do anyway, because society has no proven need for a ban on it in the first place. That’s a fully realistic, pragmatic and logical approach.

          After that it’s up to the entrepreneurs alone to find functioning business models, that’s never the responsibility of the pirates or the politicians.

        • Anyone

          @Guest
          if something can be so easily created for free, how can it have any value?
          answer me this basic question

        • Guest

          @Guest

          Your argument is moot. All music is free thanks to filesharing and yet artists continue to make money, ergo their work still has economic value.

          Why? Because people still want to reward their favourite artists even if their music is available for free. That’s why, for example, Trent Reznor was able to simultaneously release free music and make a shitton of money from the effort.

        • Guest

          @ Fredrika. I’m sorry if the law, business and economics as they stand disagree with and frustrate your aspirations but when you have to resort to calling someone an “ignorant and dishonest fuck” you really are losing the run of yourself in a despearate attempt to make yourself appear informed. I’ve offered and suggested mature debate on the subject – you are clearly incapable of either.

        • Fredrika

          > “I’m sorry if the law, business and economics as they stand disagree with and frustrate your aspirations..”

          I have no aspirations that law, business and economics disagree with, so i’m not really sure to what you refer.

          > “..but when you have to resort to calling someone an “ignorant and dishonest fuck”..”

          You yourself have openly proved both your dishonesty and ignorance. I clearly in great detail explained to what i referred. If you don’t like being called what you yourself have proven to be, well..

          > “..you really are losing the run of yourself..”

          Well, you’re welcome to have an opinon on that topic. But when an ignorant and dishonest fuck makes empty accusations against me, and in addition doesn’t respond when his incorrect claims are refuted, i have no problem calling them out on what they are.

          > “..in a despearate attempt to make yourself appear informed.”

          You keep telling yourself that, that calling you names has anything to do with trying to appear informed.

          > “I’ve offered and suggested mature debate on the subject – you are clearly incapable of either.”

          No, i’m fully capable, but when you asked for that two weeks ago i clearly stated that i don’t waste time on mature debate with ignorant people who don’t even grasp the most fundamental basics about what copyright is, but instead only comes up with empty dishonest accusations and other logical fallacies.

        • Guest

          Fredrika, it’s you who still doesn’t “get it”. You say “You’re never expected to pay for manufacturing something yourself, in the ordinary course of business”. Perhaps in your alternative reality this may be the case but back here in the real world that assertion is patently a nonsense.

          Help me out here, tell me a business which manufactures something which does not pay to do so.

          On another note, some of the links in your earlier attack on me are to comments / discussions in which I had no involvement.

        • Fredrika

          > “Perhaps in your alternative reality this may be the case but back here in the real world that assertion is patently a nonsense.”

          On the contrary, during no circumstances in the real world are you expected to pay when you manufacture something yourself.

          > “Help me out here, tell me a business which manufactures something which does not pay to do so.”

          The topic was not what businesses pay for. The topic was what you yourself pays for when you yourself manufacture something.

          > “On another note, some of the links in your earlier attack on me are to comments / discussions in which I had no involvement.

          You do realise that your comments are uniquely identified by your Disqus profile?

          http://disqus.com/guest/c098d518fba233209132fb1e4cacdf67/

          All three linked comments where replies to comments posted by your unique profile, which is clearly evident if you look at the comment all the quotes are from. Can you not see that or do i need to clarify it even further?

        • Anyone

          so how much should I charge myself when I cook myself dinner?

        • Guest

          @ Anyone. “so how much should I charge myself when I cook myself dinner?”

          There’s a difference between charging and paying. Assuming you bought the stuff to make your dinner then you’ll have paid for the raw ingredients and the energy used. So, you see, you will have paid for manufacturing something.

        • Anyone

          and when I download something from the internet I paid for the connection and electricity, as well as the hardware
          I even paid the MAFIAA for it, because my harddisks have a levy on them from my local MAFIAA

          how is that any different from cooking my dinner after I paid for the ingredients?
          in your world I’d have to pay the author of the cookbook or whoever taught me to cook this particular meal each time I cook, which is simply madness

        • Guest

          @ Fredrika.

          “On the contrary, during no circumstances in the real world are you expected to pay when you manufacture something yourself.”

          Wrong, in the ordinary course of business you pay for the goods and commodoties which enable you to manufacture something.

          “The topic was not what businesses pay for. The topic was what you yourself pays for when you yourself manufacture something.”

          Wrong, you yourself referenced business when you said “You still don’t get it, do you? You’re never expected to pay for manufacturing something yourself, in the ordinary course of business.”

          That aside even personal manufacturing has costs / overheads such as media / electricity.

          You do realise that your comments are uniquely identified by your Disqus profile?

          http://disqus.com/guest/c098d5

          All three linked comments where replies to comments posted by your unique profile, which is clearly evident if you look at the comment all the quotes are from. Can you not see that or do i need to clarify it even further?

          Yes, I do, I am aware of that thank you. On first viewing the second link provided appeared not to be referencing a comment by me. I stand corrected.

        • Fredrika

          > “Wrong, in the ordinary course of business you pay for the goods and commodoties which enable you to manufacture something.”

          But that’s not what was discussed. The discussing was regarding paying for the manufacturing. That is free when you do it yourself.

          Secondly, the only commodities involved are the computer the pirate uses, and he has already paid for that. The information does not constitute a commodity, and even if it did, it is given freely to the pirate from the uploader. There’s still nothing to pay for.

          > “Wrong, you yourself referenced business when you said “You still don’t get it, do you? You’re never expected to pay for manufacturing something yourself, in the ordinary course of business.”"

          Correct, yourself, being the relevant part.

          > “That aside even personal manufacturing has costs / overheads such as media / electricity.”

          Now you’re confusing the operating costs for the equipment with the cost of the manufacturing, the latter is zero. Nobody complains about the former.

        • Guest

          @ Fredrika.

          Great, at least we are now developing a civil discourse.

          “But that’s not what was discussed. The discussing was regarding paying for the manufacturing. That is free when you do it yourself.

          Secondly, the only commodities involved are the computer the pirate uses, and he has already paid for that. The information does not constitute a commodity, and even if it did, it is given freely to the pirate from the uploader. There’s still nothing to pay for.”

          I think, in real terms, if the computer has been paid for it, together with internet access etc, can be considered an investment / overhead / cost in relation to their part(s) in the manufacturing process. Certainly businesses (including sole traders) can claim tax rebates on such materials on that premise.

          “Correct, yourself, being the relevant part.”

          Yes, but there are still overheads & costs involved as outlined above.

          “Now you’re confusing the operating costs for the equipment with the cost of the manufacturing, the latter is zero. Nobody complains about the former.”

          I’m not “confusing” operating costs, I’m highlighting their part in the manufacturing process. It may be that nobody complains about the operating costs but they are still costs / overheads which must be paid for in order to facilitate the manufacture of any copy. To that end the manufacturing of a copy by an individual (oneself) is not “free” in the true sense of the word.

          Superficially the manufacturing costs are small by comparison to the perceived “savings” – to the point that copies made may be considered “free” by comparison – but they are still costs.

          I appreciate that this is a very semantic argument however I feel it has an important part to play in the future shaping of relationships between ISPs and their customers and the various industries who fear piracy.

          As a consumer (as opposed to customer by and large) of digital media I’m always interested to hear both sides of the argument – so I’m delighted that we appear to be moving forward on that issue.

          What are your thoughts on the soon to be introduced “six strikes” law in the States?

        • Fredrika

          > “Great, at least we are now developing a civil discourse.”

          Coming from the person who started the uncivilized behaviour with making empty accusation against me, which you then couldn’t back up when they were challenged. I called you an dishonest ignorant fuck because you are one, and you had proven that yourself weeks before i called you that. You still are one.

          > “I think, in real terms, if the computer has been paid for it, together with internet access etc, can be considered an investment / overhead / cost in relation to their part(s) in the manufacturing process.”

          No one has ever denied that people pay for all the equipment they have in their homes, and that it constitutes an investment / overhead / cost in relation to their part(s) in any process. That however does not mean that people go around saying that there was a cost associated with the card house that they just built with a deck of cards, just because they bought the cards at one point, and paid for the electricity that lit the room.

          > “I’m not “confusing” operating costs..”

          Indeed you did, electricity is a cost for running the computer, not for manufacturing a copy with it.

          > “..I’m highlighting their part in the manufacturing process.”

          The computer basically consumes the same amount of electricity when it idles as when it manufactures a copy. Therefore no added cost.

          > “To that end the manufacturing of a copy by an individual (oneself) is not “free” in the true sense of the word.

          Nor is it by that irrelevant nitpicking free to do anything in one’s own house, because there are always running costs or equipment cost. Do you then say that when you rearranged the furniture in your living room, that you paid for a new living room because you once paid for the furniture, and the electricity that lit up the room while doing so?

          > “Superficially the manufacturing costs are small by comparison to the perceived “savings” – to the point that copies made may be considered “free” by comparison – but they are still costs.”

          Not for the manufacturing of copies. You are not charged one single cent for clicking the copy key.

          > “I appreciate that this is a very semantic argument..”

          Irrelevant is the word you are looking for.

          > “however I feel it has an important part to play in the future shaping of relationships between ISPs and their customers..”

          It most certainly does not, because ISP’s sell a service, and customers pay for that service, end of story. Nobody of those two parties have any complaints about the cost for computers and electricity or anything else relevant.

          > “..and the various industries who fear piracy.”

          First of all they are according to the free market rules irrelevant for the relationship between the ISP and the account holder.

          Secondly, if you are are yet another one of those ignorant idiots who believe that any compensation system where the ISP’s should be legislatively forced to donate their revenues to another weak failed industry that can’t handle themselves on the free market is a good or functioning idea, you only again prove your ignorance and minuscule technical knowledge. That idea has already been squashed to pieces, not even the Mafiaa themselves bring it up any more.

          http://falkvinge.net/2011/03/09/an-internet-levy-is-a-terrible-idea/
          http://christianengstrom.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/cultural-flat-rate-a-non-solution-to-a-non-problem/

          Thirdly, no industries fear non-profit piracy, because nothing indicates it constitutes a problem in the first place. What the members of the Mafiaa however fear is to loose their position as exclusive gatekeepers and distributors for the content that the masses enjoy, and the technology the pirates use is a technology that artists can use to bypass the Mafiaa.

          That is their true fear, because eventually no new artists would ever do something so stupid as signing up with historically unprecedented incompetent gatekeepers, or letting them dictate any terms. That’s why they oppose torrents and cyberlockers that allows user generated content. Their claim about piracy being a problem is just a smoke screen.

          > ..so I’m delighted that we appear to be moving forward on that issue.”

          We aren’t? You bring one misconception after another to the table, and i then have to debunk those. The bottom line is that you have a problem with the free market, and you instead(because you clearly have misunderstood what copyright is about on a conceptual level) advocate some sort of legislative monopolies or government enforced bailouts to certain weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market, despite the fact that society has no proven need for any such interferences with the free market.

          > “What are your thoughts on the soon to be introduced “six strikes” law in the States?”

          Obviously the same as with all measures directed against non-profit piracy, that since no one has been able to prove any problem with it, obviously there’s no need for any solutions.

        • Guest

          Heh heh heh.

          Guest’s ignoring me because I killed his argument. =D

        • Guest

          @ Anyone.

          “and when I download something from the internet I paid for the connection and electricity, as well as the hardware I even paid the MAFIAA for it, because my harddisks have a levy on them from my local MAFIAA”

          “how is that any different from cooking my dinner after I paid for the ingredients?”

          You brought up charging yourself for making your dinner, not me. I merely pointed out that you making your dinner was not (as you thought) free but that there were costs involved which you had overlooked – like in your example above were you appear to justify downloading stuff without paying by saying you’ve paid for the conduit but won’t pay for the content.

          “in your world I’d have to pay the author of the cookbook or whoever taught me to cook this particular meal each time I cook, which is simply madness”.

          I neither said nor suggested any such thing.

        • Anyone

          why should I pay for the content if the people providing that content are not asking for any money?

          if I choose to download a copy from itunes or amazon, sure, I pay for it, since they are asking for money
          but when I download something via bittorrent noone is asking for money, the people are nice enough to upload to me free of charge

          so I manufacture a copy for myself with all the resources either paid for or provided for free

        • Guest

          “Indeed you did, electricity is a cost for running the computer, not for manufacturing a copy with it.

          The computer basically consumes the same amount of electricity when it idles as when it manufactures a copy. Therefore no added cost.”

          You seem confused Fredrika. Computers consume energy (whether idling or “manufacturing copies”). Electricity is not “free” it costs money – ask your parents.

          “Nor is it by that irrelevant nitpicking free to do anything in one’s own house, because there are always running costs or equipment cost. Do you then say that when you rearranged the furniture in your living room, that you paid for a new living room because you once paid for the furniture, and the electricity that lit up the room while doing so?”

          No, I don’t say that.

          “Not for the manufacturing of copies. You are not charged one single cent for clicking the copy key.”

          Correct, but you (or rather your parents) pay for the electricity / computer / etc.

          “Irrelevant is the word you are looking for.”

          No, you wish it were irrelevant. Costs are not irrelevant.

          “It most certainly does not, because ISP’s sell a service, and customers pay for that service, end of story. ”

          That relationship is changing – everyone can see that. Customers, more than previously, are going to be held to account for activities carried out on their account.

          “Nobody of those two parties have any complaints about the cost for computers and electricity or anything else relevant.”

          Now THAT’s irrelevant.

          “First of all they are according to the free market rules irrelevant for the relationship between the ISP and the account holder.”

          Where are these specific “Free market rules” to which you frequently refer? The actual “rules”, not a wiki or article describing the “Free market”.

          “Secondly, if you are are yet another one of those ignorant idiots who believe that any compensation system where the ISP’s should be legislatively forced to donate their revenues to another weak failed industry that can’t handle themselves on the free market is a good or functioning idea, you only again prove your ignorance and minuscule technical knowledge. That idea has already been squashed to pieces, not even the Mafiaa themselves bring it up any more.”

          You seem confused. Thankfully I’m not one of those people. I don’t believe I have suggested anything of the kind in this conversation. Please stick to the facts.

          “Thirdly, no industries fear non-profit piracy, because nothing indicates it constitutes a problem in the first place. What the members of the Mafiaa however fear is to loose their position as exclusive gatekeepers and distributors for the content that the masses enjoy, and the technology the pirates use is a technology that artists can use to bypass the Mafiaa.

          That is their true fear, because eventually no new artists would ever do something so stupid as signing up with historically unprecedented incompetent gatekeepers, or letting them dictate any terms. That’s why they oppose torrents and cyberlockers that allows user generated content. Their claim about piracy being a problem is just a smoke screen.”

          Are you now putting yourself forward as a spokesperson for all industries?

          “We aren’t? You bring one misconception after another to the table, and i then have to debunk those. The bottom line is that you have a problem with the free market, and you instead(because you clearly have misunderstood what copyright is about on a conceptual level) advocate some sort of legislative monopolies or government enforced bailouts to certain weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market, despite the fact that society has no proven need for any such interferences with the free market.”

          You seem confused. Again, you make assumptions and allegations. Where have I expressed problems with the free market or advocated legislative monopolies or government enforced bailouts?

          “Obviously the same as with all measures directed against non-profit piracy, that since no one has been able to prove any problem with it, obviously there’s no need for any solutions.”

          Then why are people being prosecuted and in some cases jailed for it?

          Serious question Fredrika.

          Whilst I’m happy to be corrected if someone has why, as far as I am aware, does it appear that nobody has ever successfully advanced or posited any of your arguments by way of a means of defense in any prosecutions to date?

        • Fredrika

          > “You seem confused Fredrika. Computers consume energy (whether idling or “manufacturing copies”). Electricity is not “free” it costs money – ask your parents.”

          No, you’re the one that’s confused because you still confuse the cost for running the computer with the cost for manufacturing the copy. The cost for the latter is zero. No cost arise from clicking copy.

          > “No, I don’t say that.”

          Yet you argue that manufacturing copies isn’t free?

          > “Correct..

          Thank you, you admit to there being no cost for the action of manufacturing copies.

          > “No, you wish it were irrelevant. Costs are not irrelevant.”

          Since no one has a problems with those costs in the copyright debate, they are irrelevant to the copyright debate.

          > “That relationship is changing – everyone can see that.”

          I don’t see that regarding even 1% of the ISP’s on this planet? Naturally there are always a few stupid ISP’s that try something new because of bribery, and then it gets shut down because it hurted them, or because privacy laws or net neutrality laws forbids them from doing anything else then delivering their services.

          > “Customers, more than previously, are going to be held to account for activities carried out on their account.”

          Are going to? You prophesying the future is uninteresting.

          > “Where are these specific “Free market rules” to which you frequently refer? The actual “rules”, not a wiki or article describing the “Free market”.”

          Please take a class in basic economics if your tired of being ignorant, i’m not your teacher. The free market is a place where no entrepreneurs are privileged with a legislative monopoly, such as the copyright monopoly, and where they are subjected to competition regarding the identical good or services they try to sell, and where the only act that entitles the entrepreneur to any money is the sale. No sale = not entitled to any money.

          > “You seem confused. Thankfully I’m not one of those people. I don’t believe I have suggested anything of the kind in this conversation.”

          What kind of a coward are you? Man up and admit that the only reason you brought the costs for electricity and Internet connection into the debate with the current paragraph..:

          > “I appreciate that this is a very semantic argument however I feel it has an important part to play in the future shaping of relationships between ISPs and their customers and the various industries who fear piracy.”

          ..was to argue that they should share of their revenues and give it to the Mafiaa in the future, because their revenues comes from services that the pirates use when they fileshare.

          > “Are you now putting yourself forward as a spokesperson for all industries?”

          You don’t have to be a spokesperson for an industry to be able look at all the data that exists and with simple logics realize what their true fear is.

          > “You seem confused. Again, you make assumptions and allegations. Where have I expressed problems with the free market or advocated legislative monopolies..

          Would you like me to dig up one of your comments where you say that the copyright monopoly is something good or that it should exist in one way or another????

          Actually you did under this very article:

          > “A common ground needs to be worked towards..”

          Those words to not describe a complete dismantling of the copyright monopoly, therefore they, and you, advocates a legislative monopoly to some degree.

          > “I have an interest in changing copyright law as it stands by the use of logic, law and reasoned debate.

          Again you talk of change, not a complete dismantling, so that the free market rules are allowed to take over.

          Please stop denying that you advocate a legislative monopoly to some degree. It’s obvious you don’t believe that the free market will sort things out on it’s own regarding culture and creators, and that you feel that the free market will treat certain self chosen entrepreneurs unfairly because of the competition they will be subjected to on it.

          > “..or government enforced bailouts?”

          You just tried to argue, although you couldn’t man up to it when shot down, that despite the fact that the relationship between the ISP and the customers is between them alone, the revenues the ISP’s receives is something which should qualify them to be legally compelled to give some sort of economical preferential treatment to a third party entrepreneur, despite them having made no sales.

          > “Then why are people being prosecuted and in some cases jailed for it?”

          Usually people are being prosecuted and jailed because it’s illegal? That something is illegal doesn’t necessarily mean that the illegal act actually constitutes a problem to society, or that the act should be illegal. History is full of examples where people have gotten jailed for acts that have constituted no problem, right up until the act has been legalised,

          > “Serious question Fredrika. Whilst I’m happy to be corrected if someone has why, as far as I am aware, does it appear that nobody has ever successfully advanced or posited any of your arguments by way of a means of defense in any prosecutions to date?”

          When have i ever claimed that anything of what i have stated changes that fact what any law currently says? When have i ever argued regarding what circumstances or claims that can get someone on trial acquitted? I haven’t.

        • Guest

          @ Anyone.

          “why should I pay for the content if the people providing that content are not asking for any money?”

          Do the people providing the content for free have the legal right to do so? That is the question.

        • Anyone

          I don’t know, it depends in which country they are

          but they have the moral right to do, since they either bought the original or manufactured a copy themselves, so it is their property and they can do with it whatever they want

        • Whysguy

          That’s exactly it, how people became accustomed to paying so much for a fecking copy of a recording is beyond me. I wonder if many “mainstream” even realize that “pirates” stole back the gold that colonist armies stole from the natives in the first place.

        • Guest

          @ Anyone, “I don’t know, it depends in which country they are

          but they have the moral right to do, since they either bought the original or manufactured a copy themselves, so it is their property and they can do with it whatever they want”

          You are mistaken. The country is irrelevant, the issue is a matter of legal rights, not moral rights. That is why people have been successfully legally prosecuted for what you think they have a “moral right to do”.

        • Hogspace

          People needed to ignore and challenge bad law

        • Fredrika

          > “You are mistaken. The country is irrelevant, the issue is a matter of legal rights, not moral rights.”

          Again proving your ignorance. The country is indeed relevant because the copyright monopoly is different from country to country, and there are many countries in the world where there either doesn’t exist a copyright monopoly at all, or where it doesn’t regulate non-profit use, where it’s therefore fully legal for people to upload the latest Hollywood movie on the Internet.

        • Menno Siebach

          wow hogspace ..i expected more from you. you let me down on your analogy. tell you what, i wont roast you – i will walk to the story and see if i can get away with stealing something for my own personal consumption. you know..steal it so i dont have to pay.

        • Hogspace

          Digital signals, like air, should be free!
          Freetards forever!

        • Fredrika

          > “..i will walk to the story and see if i can get away with stealing something for my own personal consumption. you know..steal it so i dont have to pay.”

          A better solution would be if you do as the pirates, you manufacture it yourself. And when you manufacture something yourself, there’s absolutely nothing to pay for.

        • GuesterHonor

          @Fredrika
          “The revenues in the music industry are currently higher than ever before”

          Correct.

          http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2012/01/30/why-we-shouldnt-worry-about-the-decline-of-the-music-industry/

        • Fredrika

          > “Correct.”

          Although i hadn’t read that particular article, rest assured i base every single claim and argument i put forward on actual existing numbers and verifiable facts. That the music industry and the entire culture industry is flourishing has been a well known fact for many years, a fact that the dishonest Guest i argued with below can’t seem to accept or understand.

      • Who

        and again another person that don’t know what the TRUE definition of PIRATE is. LOL

      • Asd

        “Be nice to see people who don’t pirate….”

        AHAHA

        Yeah, remember kids, don’t you DARE share anything with anyone. Greed is the only way to stay safe in this economy! Turn on your neighbours! Kick your wife in the box and shoot someone’s dog!

        Just be sure you don’t share ANY media or links to media. The copyright owners need to make sure no one EVER finds out about their content.

      • Pelham123

        “Be nice to see people who don’t pirate….”

        Stop downloading copyrighted articles without paying for them, then, hypocrite.

    • Violated0

      You will find in most countries the Governments force ISPs to track who you connect to and when. Here in the UK they go a lot further when they also record your IM user name and much more.

      Done for law enforcement reasons but what exists is soon abused.

      • MadAsASnake

        And it’s reliability depends on getting so many things right (including timestamps from external bodies) that it’s still worthless as evidence.

    • MadAsASnake

      be even nicer to see an ISP simply respond by telling the courts that their logs simply are not reliable for this purpose and were never intended to be.

  • Anonymous

    so it looks like the corruption has traveled over the border now to infect Canada. the judges involved in the Montreal case decision ought to be reminded that there is no way on Earth that an IP address can identify a user. i must admit though that i thought Canadian justice didn’t pander to copyright trolls in the same way the US courts had been doing. seems like they are now condoning the practice of extortion rather than the law. what a shame that another country has fallen for the entertainment industries bullshit

    • Arb1

      seems like sides flip flopped, US courts recently been starting to go against most these copyright trolls over last year or so.

      • Who

        yes that’s true but that wont last to long. /cry

    • Guest

      So the American cancer has metastasized again?

  • Violated0

    This is what I predicted would happen almost a year ago. Copyright trolls are now having a hard time in the USA making their usual easy money income dry up. So copyright tolls take up copyright tourism and start suing in new and more lucrative countries where Canada is top choice and Australia second.

    I can only hope Canadian citizens are now much more aware of this speculative invoicing scam and fight back hard along with deny, deny and deny much more. It is a shame though that the innocent and unaware are the ones exploited. In that regard I hope Canada has their own version of the EFF.

    • Bad Seed

      In the last five years, Canipre has interdicted an estimated 40,000,000 files and issued more than 3,500,000 take-down notices with a compliance rate of 100%.

      Sometimes its a phone call; our black book is deep.

      And if that doesn’t get it done, Canipre staff is extremely adept at manipulating file-sharing technology; the same technologies that are used to perpetuate piracy are used to effectvely quarantine piracy.

      • Jonas Salk

        You mean you might even *gasp* CALL ME!

        Your power and reach know no bounds.

      • MadAsASnake

        Not sure what you are smoking… how many of those 3,500,000 takedowns were actually valid?

      • Guest

        “compliance rate of 100%.”

        And that’s how you know their statistics are made up.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Very interesting since the hypothesis of even a 90% accuracy rate has been effectively falsified.

        In short, you claim that Canipre is able to perform magical acts in violation of hard physics.

        Tough act to follow. You should go on stage.

  • ScrewEwe2

    Jack & Joseph Nasser of NGN say they have made over 50 high quality movies in the past 15 years. I think they’re stretching the truth A LOT.

    http://nasserentertainment.com/completedproject.aspx

    http://nasserentertainment.com/players.aspx

    I haven’t seen any of their crappy movies and doubt I will.

    • Arb1

      i scrolled their list if i even seen 1 of the movies it wasn’t something good enough to remember it, rest never even heard of. “the Bad Son” sounds like a straight rip off of “the good son”

    • mommy

      nasser entertainmen or harassment entertainment

    • anonymous

      I scrolled through the list. I haven’t heard of ANY of their movies. Honestly, they sound like movies I’d only find through downloading. I support creators and usually buy their stuff afterward or buy their other offerings but given how they’re acting now, I’m going to ignore them entirely.

  • http://www.frontier-space.com/ Lethn

    “I don’t think we have to limit this to just teenagers downloading Justin Bieber’s last record,” he said. “We represent a lot of mature titles that would be of interest to the 30/40/50 crowd.”

    You know when he says something like that he’s just in it for the money entirely and it has nothing to do with the copyright of artists.

    • MadAsASnake

      What he saying is that a lot of mainstream folks are getting reluctant to annger their best customers – but porn outfits aren’t worried because no-one pays anymore anyway, because there is so much free washing around the internet.

      • Guest

        I’m always surprised people still make porn for profit (even creating something that can be “pirated”…) As long as there are people with cameras and idle fingers those people are going to be having some fun: on camera. Just silly to seriously expect to make money on something people do in abundance for fun.

        I think a lot of things won’t need a monetary exchange to accomplish as “amateurs” doing them for fun take precedence… News/blogs/live tweeting, etc, comes to mind… Economic incentives are actually undesirable IMHO. It’s better if people make out of interest, when possible, and simply share the fruits directly without the cash intermediary. For starters, you can’t tax what neither charged for (lowering the cost of production in yet another way), and secondly people reap more social fulfillment which is frequently absent in business exchanges (as long as they consciously avoid building assets simply for a business to “own” – like a database they can be sued for downloading – but instead work on open community products and projects)…

  • Guest

    Looks like all the titles are shit.. You can get them at redbox, at a discount!

    • Heisenberg7

      Or on the internet for free!

  • The_Strawbear

    Millions of users?

    At what point do we say ‘hey, if so many people want to do this, shouldn’t it be the law?’

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      At the precise point where enough of these users find the plethora of scam artists with mass extortion schemes more worrisome than whether sock puppet One or sock puppet Two happen to be sitting on a congressman’s or senator’s seat.

    • http://twitter.com/technobuddha TechnoBuddha

      instead of creating the law, it should be removed. Laws are created by politicians to keep the masses in control. do you see criminals saying: “oh no! there is a law, i need to be a good boy”. LOL When will society realise they are grown up enough to not need laws. i don’t know about you? but I know within myself, what is right or wrong. Namaste!

    • Schwartz

      In definition law mean desire of majority people, what people choose , what mass people are agree to respect or not , what people think are good for they , in theory people make laws ,but that it is just theory !
      In reality laws are maked by corrupted politicians bribed by corporations , trolls etc in capitalism or by dictators in dicatorial regims like comunism fascim etc, in both cases people become slaves of these fuckers , livin in a big jail with invisible bars , people are terorized by these fuckers whos beyond any rules , laws
      So only way for people remain REVOLUTION ! fuck all laws ( nobody will make a revolution if will respect laws – revolutions mean contest laws , mean change, mean distruction), kill them all fat stupid masters, destroy these systems based just on greed ,waisting ,money and terror – then i think people must make new good laws for society progress in acording with nature not to giving chance for few to be rich , to get monoploy , to foolish , manipulate and control others , to destroy kill people and nature, to waiste resources , to make polution, wars etc all in the name of greed – money , all in the name of freedom of democracy – btw democracy and freedom for which people ? o yes for rich people – you can call them tax evasoniers , master of slaves etc , remember the question -let me know mr rich how do you make first million ? they cannot answer becouse they know you cant be rich if you respect laws, actual laws are maked by them for other poor people , it s like a barrier to try stop others to do the same thing like they to become rich , they want to keep monopoly , control and exclusivity , they are a bunch of criminals thats the truth

      Remember people WE are billions ,,, billions people which can be free IF we stand up and fuck them , they cant win ,they will never win , if enough people will stop to work for them and start to fight against them they will be destroyed , maybe they will try to kill us but that s imposible , nobody can kill billions ,(Hitler and Stalin just trying and as you can see they fail ) maybe they will try to destroy people with nuclear bombs or other destructive weapons but in that case they will suicide becouse cant protect enough and after even will kill enough people im shure survivors will fight and even will become kamikaze to revenge , so in all way they will not win

      • Le_Fungus

        and thats why if i recieve a letter from any coypright trolls ill gladly send them a letter smeared in shit

        • ScrewEwe2

          A rectal response, LOL.

  • Guest

    Use a VPN and you’ll be okay… for $50-80/year beats being targeted.. encrypt torrent use! :)

  • Cofree

    You know i’ve been reading all this for years now. The mpaa/riaa think it’s a war on piracy.

    When will the mpaa /riaa understand we have not yet began to fight.

    Ok some start using a vpn and or proxy TO HIDE ( i do as well) but that is not a fight.
    There will come a day when WE THE FILE SHARERS will stand up and fight.
    We will flood the net with with easy to understand guides and start teaching everyone we know about P2P and encourage those to teach

    • RIAAtarded

      I’ll say it again what is needed is people to fight against this and stop it from becoming law not endorsing methods to evade and hide from it. Yes you can hide behind a proxy, vpn, server etc but that isn’t the point, the point is you shouldn’t need to.

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  • TeeTund

    Looks like someone in Canada has a wee bit too much spare time on their hands lol

    http://www.Anon-Tru.tk

  • Al Capwn

    Yup, can’t disagree with the VPN way of doing things, paying $70 a year to protect yourself is money well spent!

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      70 dollars a year? More like 70 dollars every 3 months.

      • Anyone

        that’s $70 the MAFIAA will never get

  • anon

    I’m surprise they didn’t go for Videotron. Welp, time to actually use a vpn.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      No, not time for that, since all court decisions have been against these guys.

  • John MacLane

    I hope Canadian’s realize that it is perfectly legal for us to download music for personal use as long as we put it on an MP3 player or burn it to CD. Canadian’s pay a tax on all MP3 players and blank CDs which goes to SOCAN. In Canada they just assumed we would steal music and taxed everyone to make sure they got their share. Since we’re already paying for it you might as well enjoy it.

    Note that movies do not fall into this category.

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  • Who

    “Pay us a cash settlement,” the trolls advise, “or we’ll make your life a misery.”

    ok so HOW is this NOT an act of TERRORISM?

    some one needs to sue them just for making this threat.

    • MadAsASnake

      In most jurisdictions it’s a criminal offense. Unfortunately, most police forces like easier targets, like 9yr old girls.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash

    LOL I’ll just keep downloading anyways so what’s the point? Plus if for some reason my internet gets capped I will just stop paying for it and will grab a free signal so ha!

    I’ll gladly pay for a VPN. Not to mention my upload speed has always been capped at 50kbs and when I do upload it slows down the web browser as well. When I tried a VPN it went between 1-2mbs.

  • Ngn

    NGN Productions Inc.
    8180 Winston Street
    Burnaby, BC V5A 2H5
    Tel: 604-637-9790
    Fax: 604-420-4840
    Email: nassent@pacbell.net

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash

    My VCR and radio had a record button. My DVD had a burner. My mouse a copy paste button.

    I mean come on. How do they expect us not to laugh at them when they want us to take their b.s seriously.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Do you realize how much money the MPAA/RIAA spent on lobbying to have the burner/recorder function made illegal on the VCR, the CD burner and the DVD burner?

      I’m not sure about the copy/paste function but that may be because they simply don’t know computers that well.

      The problem is that they can serve as much b.s. as they like as long as they can find politicians willing to eat it for a high enough price.

  • NaziAmerica

    Here’s an idea. Someone find the home address of these people and let’s use their wireless to download tons of torrents. They’re such geniuses, watch them sue themselves.

  • Eddie

    Looks like we have a new money making industry here that the mafia would love: Make a movie with your iphone, give it a catchy title, copyright it, upload it to Piratebay anonymously, wait a few months, then sue the sh*t out of anyone who downloads it. I gotta try this. Why work for a living?

  • http://twitter.com/technobuddha TechnoBuddha

    I admit I’m a little confused about this. My understanding is that its NOT illegal to use BitTorrent, ftp, http, or any other internet protocol to RECEIVE the music or movies here in Canada, because we pay a TAX on ALL MEDIA. such as MP3 players, CD recorders, iPhones, Androids, etc. The ISSUE is when the internet protocol SHARES the music/movies that have been downloaded onto the taxed device. I also realize that a LOT of people do not bother to change the sharing aspect, and people copy from them.

    can someone please confirm this aspect of the Canadian law?

    • MadAsASnake

      Not having a case has never stopped MAFIAA before.

      • Guest

        Just ask Kim Dotcom.

  • http://twitter.com/scootermcgee Scott, eh?

    Is it not a bit strange that NONE of the notifications will be sent to users on the large national ISPs, but rather four smaller providers?

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      Trust me! Pure Coincidence! ……… (lol)

  • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

    So, what happens in Canadian politics when this unlearned judge’s decision starts to produce millions of 30/40/50 victims (lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, teachers, engineers, college professors, research mathematicians, journalists, and just plain old run of the mill retardedly angry voters), whose immediate obsession is an abundance of deep infected Troll bite marks?

    Question: In Canada, can laws be repealed; and Court decisions Appealed?

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Yes and yes to both questions. In EVERY system of justice, even in Islamic countries, court decisions can be appealed.

      • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

        Yeah!!

  • mary effing hinge

    it’s too late. we’re doomed. we’re all gonna die…oh my god help, this is not happening, what will the future generation use their Apple zombie pies for , if not downloading torrents?

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  • Borharris1

    my isp gives them my name and address i will just … shut it all down … i have everything i want anyways … bye bye internet … getting useless anyways …

  • NewClear

    “Pay us a cash settlement or we’ll make your life a misery.”

    That my friends, is extortion at its finest. Such threats demanding cash you hear from deranged criminals, drug cartels, and the Mafia. Or in this case, the MAFIAA (that name has never been so fitting!)

  • Janelle

    I know! Lets take 1/30 (3%) of Canada’s population to court……. idiots!

  • Danny Trejo Rules !!!!!

    I will download any trashy action movie with Danny Trejo in he is the god of Z list movies.

    http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/joeblogs1933/dannytrejo.jpg

  • Gargamel

    It will cost the lawyers more then 5,000 dollars just to bring you to court and try you, so they are not going to follow up on anyone that doesn’t cough up on their bluff because if they do go after people in Canada they’ll be losing money hand over fist.

  • enzofloc

    Let’s get the semantics straight. File selling = piracy. File sharing is NOT piracy. It’s perfectly legal, I hope, to watch a DVD i rented with friends. I’d only be infringing on copy-rite if I charged them to watch. Reading a storybook to children is content sharing. Is that illegal? Is it criminal to copy an mp3 from my hard drive to a USB?

    Problem is anything to do with sharing is considered socialism. Community is the true enemy of capitalism. So the next time my neighbour asks to borrow a ladder I should say. “Go buy your own, you fucking communist.” And ironically, he’d have to buy one made in a communist country.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      All of the examples – reading to children, lending a DVD, and so on – have been contested by the copyright industry.

      Examples worth mentioning include the demand to have cab drivers and truckers pay performing fees since the car radio exists as part of the “workplace” and attempts to extort performance licenses on mobile phone ring tones – from end consumers.

      “Intellectual Property” in itself is actually in flagrant violation of the tenets of capitalism as the term is extremely deceptive – as it actually strips property rights from third parties. Intellectual “property” is actually the abolition of many property rights for everyone else.

      And copyright is nothing other than information control – as pursued by a private monopoly backed by government force.

      However, it’s an air castle a lot of people have invested in which is why copyright is so hotly defended by many who ought to know better.

  • Guest

    “He claims that over the past five months his company has collected data on one million Canadians engaged in BitTorrent sharing and the decision of the Federal Court means that each one could face a damages claim in court.”

    There is only about ~10 million households in Canada… so 1 in 10 will receive extortion letters from this guy.

    • Anyone

      which also means any politician opposing this bullshit will get at least 10% of the votes

  • Aye

    Quebec has its own laws.
    While some of them co-exist with the rest of canada.
    They are kind of in their own little world in that part of canada.

  • Danieldking

    Here’s how pirating works. I downloaded angry bird game for my son off pirate bay. We did not have any intention to buy it. We just downloaded it as we had heard about it. My son fell in love with it and ever since I have paid over $100.00 for angry games t-shirts, plushes, stickers, the actual physical angry birds game etc. I think the game developer is not at a loss here.

    • Im just saying

      That is good for them!!
      Right?

  • Calexicoca

    I will sue these idiots who downloaded “Recoil” but not because it is illegal to download but because it is an insult to intelligence to watch this shitty movie.

  • CharlestheGreat

    and I wonder how many of these IP address are VPNs

  • Kitlope

    Time for a seedbox! And just my luck… the same week I doubled my download and quadroupled my upload this happens. *sigh*

    Whats a good, cheap (or free), trustworthy reliable vpn?

    Kit

    • CharlestheGreat

      Hide my ass is great $78 for a year

      • Anyone

        and at the slightest pressure they will sell you out
        don’t use SellMyAss, they are not trustworthy in any sense of the word

      • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

        Keep as eye on that part of your ass that HMA leaves unhidden…..

  • kokoko

    So, what about canadian services like BTGuard? Are those not safe anymore?

  • Newbie Canuck

    I’m new to torrenting and being a Canadian, I wonder if this is only an isolated company flapping their gums or the shape of things to come? As a canuck, should I just use a US proxy (in uTorrent client) or go the full-blown vpn route? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    • Anyone

      getting a VPN (or VPS/Seedbox) is recommended, just because you get much better speed that way

      as for the safety, I’d just wait and see, if you have insurance that pays for lawyers you are set, simply call your lawyer, have him send back a threatening letter of your own and they should move on to easier targets

  • Hippowise

    This is pretty big news. I’m surprised that it’s not getting more press coverage. I wrote a blog post in response to this article here. http://hippowise.com/mass-bittorrent-lawsuits-are-coming-to-canada/

    • Thetech

      it was on the 6:00 news tonight in my neck of the woods ,, I’ve had many phone calls since looking for advice on vpn’s lol

  • Ricky,Bubbles&Julian

    usually i try to be mature and any posts i make i try to be insightfull but today think i`ll be a dick:

    “Will Canadians feel compelled to pay? We may soon find out.”

    Fuck Them!!! let them rain a SHIT-STORM OR A SHIT-NAMI DOWN ON ME IDK,

    I HOPE when i recieve my letter (be my second one now) there`s a 1-800 number

    so i can call it and SHIT ALL OVER THEIR PARADE!!

    THEY CAN SUCK MY FROZEN DICK AND I`LL USE THE LETTER TO WIPE MY FROZEN ASS!

    HELL I HOPE THE LETTER GETS HAND DELIVERED SO I CAN PUNCH THE SHIT-APPLE IN THE FACE!!

  • No

    Ah yes. This should drive up VPN subscriptions a bit.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Yup. Every time the copyright trolls come out in force, more of the internet migrates below ground. In a way this is a good thing as it means the darknet then becomes a public domain everyone moves through.

  • http://twitter.com/The_Curiosity The Curiosity

    Quebec has a different legal Civil system than the rest of Canada. Not sure, but I don’t think a court ruling in a Quebec court has that much weight in the rest of the country. Can anyone who is familiar with Quebec and the rest of Canada’s non-criminal courts verify?

  • http://twitter.com/The_Curiosity The Curiosity

    Quebec is pretty corrupt already. It is also pretty much a country within a country. They have a different Civil system than rest of the country with different requirements for evidence and stuff. Questionable if this will have any weight elsewhere in Canada. RCMP already on record for saying they have better things to do than raid people for harmless downloading.

  • Noma

    The end of piracy his here.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      Yeah!……but only when everything that could be pirated…… has been pirated…..

  • Acordingtobill

    I find it more interesting that the companies are all small time ventures,no mega companies,a good place for them to start,or is it? fishy!!

  • Me

    are usenet users at risk as well or just torrent users

    • Anyone

      just torrent

  • downunder

    aFTER ALL THEY can make more money sueing aledge file sharers based on a flimsy IP address then they can from actually
    selling it

    its better business for then to be a seeder and catch more people
    to extort money from :)

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  • enzofloc

    What about private trackers? Can they be traced?

    • Anyone

      of course
      they are in no way “private”

  • chronoss

    YOU all realize that unless someone has a warrant that its against the law to gather intelligence and scan your ip for protocol information

    as a hacker i know this to be fact. SO the data they gathered is and has been gotten by illegal means and would be removed form court.
    this is why fighting that vic toews internet spy law ( ergo without a warrant stuff ) was so important cause if it had gone through the harper govt could have let hollywood or this company gather this data and sue you….

    AS that did not happen and no warrant was or has been granted its illegal and they can be sued under the privacy law of canada and the charter of rights and freedoms.

    HAVE a nice fucking day hollystupid…nexxxxxxt…

  • chronoss

    “The company claimed that data collected by anti-piracy company Canipre between September 1 and October 31 showed that 50 IP addresses allocated to four ISPs – 3 Web Corp., Access Communications Co-Operative Ltd., ACN Inc., and Distributel Communications Ltd – had engaged in copyright infringement of Recoil.”

    and they got this without a warrant or permission if the user.
    THIS IS called scanning and is illegal in canada, if it is legal then hackers should get scanning in canada….GO GO GO lets see all the vulnerabilities in the great white north !!!!!!!!!

    and as the vic toews law did not pass its not legal for a third party to handle private or legal matters for the rcmp or govt….
    haha these guys and the court screwed up and someone needs to tell the lawyers wtf ….and smash this crap hard….
    want to sue me prove i have it and get a warrant….then you can spy…

    • BobMail

      It’s not scanning – it’s called using a regular bit torrent client to try to download something. Just keep track of the peer addresses, and away you go.

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is pretty much as public a piece of information as you can get, no scanning required.

    • torontoguy

      Exactly.

      It would have to go through civil or small claims court (most likely civil), therefore, no criminal charges. You don’t have to show a thing and for this company to try to get your private data from an ISP, good luck. The ISP does not have to hand it over unless there’s a warrant for it. That doesn’t guarantee an ISP won’t sell someone out or bow to the pressure, it just means you or the ISP don’t have to disclose a thing at all unless there’s a court order asking for it.

      This is all about intimidation and manipulation for these companies. 7 out of 10 people will pay it because they think they’ll be hauled into court, lose badly, have their names splashed over the internet or news and then their neighbours, co-workers and families will disown them.

      The other 3 out of 10 will realize it’s a shakedown by scummy lawyers and IP trolls and not pay the extortion fees at all. It’ll cost these companies and heck of a lot more $$$ to go after people in court than they’ll get back (assuming people can/will pay after court) and, eventually, they’ll stop calling or writing for their $$$

      Don’t pay these creeps, not one dime. If everyone didn’t pay, they’ll go away and out of business.

  • vpn is vulnerable!

    In 6 months I got suspended 3 accounts
    from differents companys!!
    Always from downloading crapy porn!
    My actual vpn account has last me more that the other ones!
    Here is a tip! When u open an account try the one month first! If u pay the hole year just remember! They don,t make refund!

  • Guest

    Does anyone know which movies are being targetted specifically?

  • chronoss

    Host Name : DNS1.EHOSTPROS.COM

    IP Address : 174.121.90.229

    Host Name : dns2.ehostpros.com

    IP Address : 174.121.90.227

    yankies this is gonna go over well….
    at least if you start suing canucks get some smuck canadian to do it…

  • Non

    Wasn’t this scheme already invalidated by an earlier supreme court ruling.
    Heck I’m sure the announcement was on torrent freak
    Why the change in policy for canada?

    • Anyone

      exactly because it doesn’t work anymore in the US they moved on to the next country

  • Rohe

    There should be a face slapping punishment for everybody who shares movies with a IMDB rating below 6.0. Seriously, this is bad. They don’t even pretend! to hit people!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2AgSvzMiz4

  • anon1

    even if i’m taken to court they won’t get anything, i’m unemployed and drive a $1,000 car, no money for them to make here :D

    • torontoguy

      If they try to take you to court for $5000, it will cost them more than what they’ll be able to get from you. That’s assuming they win and can get people to pay up, the courts won’t help them collect a dime after a winning verdict.

  • guest

    Theoretically, if no one paid these trolls, it would force them to file an individual lawsuit for each person who supposedly infringed. You know how long that would take to bring each person to court? As well, even if these creepy trolls won in court, they’d still have to get people to pay and for $5000 a piece, they’d either have to garnish someone at work or try to put a writ on their name, not exactly easy to do. Of course, it would cost these trolls money to get the person into court, then lawyers fees on top of that as well… this is all assuming they’d ever get someone to pay after court.

    I wouldn’t pay at all, I’d let them try to take me to court. It would be a long time to get to court as well, so in the meantime I would stall it further and further and wait for them to eventually set a date. I would show up in court and ask to see the proof (if they didn’t provide it to me before) and then claim it wasn’t me. Even if I lost, try to get the money from me, it’s not easy to do.

  • Eric

    OK… so never buy obtain anything made by NGN Productions again, legal or otherwise? No problem.

    Seems like this suit will accomplish EXACTLY what they want.

    • torontoguy

      I went to NGN Productions website and saw a list of their movies. I’ve honestly never heard of one of their movies, let alone watched or downloaded. It’s all crap! No wonder they are going after people… it’s easy money and gets them free publicity.

    • Cbilljones

      nah, im going to download whatever i can find and promptly delete it, all for the hopes that i get a blackmail letter so i can sue the fuck out of them

  • enzofloc

    What boggles the mind here is that file-sharers are the ones who spend the most money on music and movies. One could assume that if they stop sharing, they would pay less, since they would know less about what is available.

    What boggles the mind even more is that the movie studios are not suffering, each year they continue to break box-office records.

    Probably not so surprising since fie-sharers are teased with crappy cam versions of new releases which encourage them to see it on the big screen.

  • torontoguy

    I know most people think Kim DotCom is fully of crap but he pointed out that pretty much every single movie studio, software company, music label and even federal departments had IP addresses logged with Mega (when it was up and running).

    So, this can only go one of two ways:

    1). These companies are loading up their own torrents or files, either to spread around to people or creating dummy torrents. However, if they are dummy ones, normally they are reported by people, they don’t stay up for too long. If they are legit files, then these companies are freely uploading them to Mega for people to share.

    2). These companies employ people who use P2P torrents from work or their company-owned equipment. These employees download via P2P without their employers knowledge and some may even do it from their work.

    Whatever way you look at it, the whole witch hunt for IP is severely flawed at best. W

    If IP addresses are exposed, will some be hidden if they are from say a provincial or federal government address? What about if it’s from a law firm IP address? Or someone who’s well-known? Or someone who works in the court system? What if they work for a music label or even a movie company?

    Seems to me the whole IP witch hunt is to go after anyone who’s not connected to this corrupt system and try to dredge up $5000 from them. It’s a form of extortion, manipulation and downright evil.

    BTW, just because an ISP has the whole safe harbour clause, why is it no ISP is directly responsible for people downloading yet they are willing to give up names so easily?

    In the case of civil court in Canada, ISP’s are not required to give up names as well, it’s civil court, not criminal.

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  • Femida

    we will paint Canadian streets with your blood copyright mafia.
    you will not meet the NEw year.

  • Eric

    This is either:

    a) an extortion tactic as they will never waste money going to court for a maximum settlement of $5000

    b) a pathetic attempt to gain publicity as, let’s face it, every movie they’ve produced is a no-name most likely straight-to-DVD flic

    c) all of the above

    NGN is a nobody production group. Look at their address on Google maps in Canada. It’s a small office in the back of a business strip facility. Even their LA office is on a side street somewhere that Google car didn’t drive by.

    No way they have the financial resources to go after anyone in court. If you get a letter from them, ignore it. Chances are you won’t hear from them again.

    • torontoguy

      Well said, you are correct sir.

    • ass fucker, get lube mafiaa

      don’t ignore, file a counter suit, extortion is not legal. These guys want lawsuits lets bring them to court

  • Tmc80tmc

    Screw that! Canadians ALREADY pay a piracy tax on blank media.. how much more do the greedy bastards want?!?
    Crazy… I’ve known Canada to be very anti consumer.. but this takes the cake!

  • BS

    This is why the death sentence needs to come back; so these morons in charge of these “legal” companies can go away.

  • hiomio
  • Trelew

    The Harper Gov’t is nothing but stooges for Big Business, so this is not really surprising. I’m pretty sure Harper will make the min. allowed for damages disappear in the next omnibill he so likes doing.

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  • Sorsja

    Im Canadian. What was that movie called? Recoil? Thanks will go download it right now.

    Oh and mail me the extortion letter on legal-sized paper please. Out of toilet paper atm.

    Thanks!

  • giofio
  • Cujo

    give all Canadians software/hardware to grab 5TB and more and then say ……you can’t do that ……..I’m going to sue

    this sounds like entrapment

  • Jaykanning

    I just want free stuff and not get caught for it. If I had to, I wouldn’t pay for almost all of it, but it would have to be pretty much the second coming for you to get a cent out of my tight ass. Not saying it is right. It is just what I do now and having gotten so much for free, I don’t think I could ever go back. I don’t even have cable now. My only regret is all the money I spend on VHS movies, CD and Vinyl back in my youth. I wish I could get it all back.

  • Edwood

    I’m in Canada, and yes, it’s been great for file-sharers for a decade or more. I haven’t read all the comments, but I want everybody to back away from commenting on the new law for a minute, and consider this:

    The genie is out of the bottle. File sharing, by one means or another, is rampant in every country, under every kind of law. This includes United States. This includes Canada. This is the case now, and will be the case for the next century.

    That’s the reality of creating digital works of art (music, videos, e-books, whatever) that can be perfectly replicated because of their digital nature. CDs and DVDs are nothing but ones and zeros in a certain order. If you offer a product that can be perfectly copied and shared for a few cents, guess what? It’s gonna happen.

  • bluesborn

    Well no surprise here-the writing has been on the wall for sometime.Shaw hasn’t created it’s “movie club” for no reason-they’re all set to cash in by charging us twice-once for internet connection and again to watch the movies we’ve been enjoying without extra charge.It’s been a fun 10 years or so but greed always ALWAYS wins out in the end.

  • guess

    This company is doing lot of legal assumptions. 1. Do they know and the people know that it was the full movie and not just a trailer (NO) 2. P2P is not illegal 3. Connection to the file does not prove that you obtained the file. They have to prove that you downloaded the entire file since it’s not functional in pieces. I doubt they have that in there info. People download trailers from P2P all the time and trailers are publically accessible on the internet so they will have to prove intent that you wanted to download the full movie (and that is nearly impossible to prove). How reliable is IP as a proof of indentity? Is there a possibility of error in the IP logs? Can IP’s be falsified? Who determines the fine? The judge. It is highly unlikely he we charge you the full fine on such weak evidence on your first charge. Maybe at the most 1000 bucks which would not even cover the legal cost of the people needed to come at you with the issue in the first place. It would not be cost affective in the least. Just to start a small claims court you are looking(not including the lawyer fee’s) close to 1000 bucks.

  • Menno SIebach

    3/4 of you illiterate goombas could’nt tell shit from silly-putty.

    why don’t ya take some time to read up before you post. i hope they toss the lot of you in the bucket because thats where y’all belong!

  • Menno Siebach

    I have taken a fair bit of time to walk around the internet and see what you little heathens are up to, who feeds who, and your views on this whole troll thing. here is what i find:

    1. most of you are misinformed
    2. more than half technologically inept
    3. most to all of you would cave when you get that ufirst letter
    4. you are all poor examples of an intelligent community, save about 3-4 individuals
    5. 90% have taken no time to read any material that directly affects you
    6. your statements would be great evidence in court matters regardless of country
    7. torrentfreak is a platform that i suspect will be raided and the server boxes seized
    8. your all really a let down in terms of what you post.

    have fun!

    • ass fucker

      see you in court fucker, i hope you gots lotsa money because as soon as i can find an extortion letter i will be filling a civil claim. By the way most of family are lawyers so my representation is free. Stock up on lube.

    • Bruce Murray

      Menno, You take a strong position. Having taken very little time to read your comment here is what I find:
      1. You cannot say, to paraphrase, “I find that most of you” without statistical evidence.
      2. Again to paraphrase “I find “more than half technologically inept” Your sentence lacks a verb, and again lacks statistical proof
      3. Ummm… what? This is not a sentence.
      4. This is where we see the only punctuation mark in your letter. Oddly you have used it correctly.
      5. There you go with the quantitative thing.
      Enough. Punctuate. Capitalize[press shift]. Learn to spell. Stop stating your incoherent opinions as fact, rather than as inanely trans-scientificlly opinedly rantings Wait,have I been trolled? [donotfeedthetrolls]

  • Guest

    Canipre makes me very angry.

    Can we get some savvy people to find out where they are specifically operating out of in Montreal? Maybe follow their P.O. mailbox pickup guy as a start? Use as much technology as we can against them.

    It would be nice if we could get accurate and verified information about all their employees? Gather their photos and home addresses? The more details the better.
    Maybe start a website to track and monitor them for fun.
    (reversing the game on them could be fun, right?)

    I’m sure we can find some ways to put an end to companies like this. Relentless constant public exposure is the first step.

    The message we need to drive home to companies like this: “Don’t mess with our internet.”

  • anon

    So all these comments basically say, if you get a letter, ignore it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash

    I’m Canadian and I’m also looking forward to receive a warning just so I can tell them to shove it deep down in their behinds and to suck my fucking cock!

  • Fuckyou!

    Its sick and terrible, that big corporations govern the resources of our police forces and create such intolerable messes of our court systems. Why not do something really good, and healthy for the population of Canada, and go after organised crime that is importing death into Canada. Utilize our resources of crime fighting for good, and not evil and get the support of your people! Stop allowing organized crime to import drugs into Canada, and creating such a horrible strain on the welfare system, hospital system, criminal justice system, and every other social system put in place to protect and help people that are being exploited by them. If you want to create change that is positive and beneficial to our society you need to start telling big corporations to fuck off and take care of your people instead!…

  • torontoguy

    All this is going to do is drive more savvy users to darknet groups and use VPN’s as a way of circumnavigating the whole process of getting caught.

    Torrents are too risky, darknet is the way to go as well as cloud-based sharing (where the files are encrypted).

    The good thing about technology is that the good guys are always one or more steps ahead of the scumbags who try to burn everyone else and destroy it.

  • Yabba dabba doo

    I am just wondering, if i download a movie which costs $25 in the store, how they going to justify their $5000 damage???

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Trial-Error/550266554 Trial Error

    People doing it regularly and in large volumes should think twice – would you go into a store and lift items like that? Probably not…

    • Fredrika

      > “People doing it regularly and in large volumes should think twice..”

      About taking precations and start using a VPN or other solutions so that their filesharing can’t be detected? Maybe so.

      > “..would you go into a store and lift items like that? Probably not…”

      Property rights have a wide acceptance in society, and violations of them is generally looked down upon. But that has absolutely nothing to do with a completely different law that exists for a completely different purpose, or people performing non-profit intrusions into a legislative monopoly that society has no proven need for, an act that is socially fully accepted.

      So your entire comment was nothing more than a pathetic and ignorant attempt at using the logical fallacy of guilt by association, one of the trademarks of a failed troll that can come up with any sustainable arguments against pirates.

      Which actually means your signature correctly describes you, you tried and you failed.

      • guest

        download and stealing a dvd is two different things. One a dvd hold true value since one can buy and resell it. A digital file downloaded through any legit service hold not value since it cannot be resold and is only a duplication of data. You give me true value of my digital buys where I can resell them then you can claim it holds true value till then any argument that downloading is stealing is ludicrous.

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  • USAisgarbage

    USA is collapsing!!!!!!!!!! sing it people, ding dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead la la la laaaaaaaaa

  • torontodude

    We now know from the papers filed in Federal Court in Canada recently that Barry Logan resides in Stratford, Ontario. So, anyone who wants to visit Mr. Logan in Stratford can just look him up now.

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  • Frank

    Corporations can go fuck themselves. The sociopaths that run them should be taken into the street and shot, multiple times. We’ll never have freedom until the feudal corporate system is ended. Worker owned cooperatives and employees who have shares in businesses, that is the only way business will work with society and the environment. Mr Executive, I’m coming for you with my Boom Boom Stick.

  • james

    I am not surprised that some frog Montreal judge has decided that virtually all that was needed was an I.P. address and no amount of proof what so ever being offered was enough for him to hand over the identity of individuals who happen to be paying for a particular I.P. MUST be the pirates they seek for compensation because after all , it is their I.P. address .
    What a joke and a farce this is !

  • marcus

    Maybe if their movie wasn’t so mediocre they wouldn’t need to go after p2p users?

  • Downloaded 156

    Fuck u Hollywood

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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