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	<title>Comments on: Copyright Troll Causes Chaos By Suing Fans Without Band&#8217;s Permission</title>
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	<description>Breaking File-sharing, Copyright and Privacy News</description>
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		<title>By: Tommy Morriello</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-928679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tommy Morriello]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 12:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-928679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Could not agree more, I think people trying to make right by buying something at their shows is like donating money to starving children... a Roadie (not to mention Tour managers and FOH) make by far more money than 90% of the bands touring..... Even independent labels work their asses of to make good quality products to come out and they some of their A&amp;R earn less than a factory worker.....  People still blame labels.... jesus... this is sooo 80&#039;s! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Could not agree more, I think people trying to make right by buying something at their shows is like donating money to starving children&#8230; a Roadie (not to mention Tour managers and FOH) make by far more money than 90% of the bands touring&#8230;.. Even independent labels work their asses of to make good quality products to come out and they some of their A&amp;R earn less than a factory worker&#8230;..  People still blame labels&#8230;. jesus&#8230; this is sooo 80&#8242;s! </p>
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		<title>By: Music Pirates Will Be Unmasked, Despite Band’s Protests &#124; We R Pirates</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-926916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Music Pirates Will Be Unmasked, Despite Band’s Protests &#124; We R Pirates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 15:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-926916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the RIAA ended its infamous campaign. Two, the suing of All Shall Perish&#8217;s fans is being done without the band&#8217;s permission. Indeed, the band&#8217;s label, Nuclear Blast, didn&#8217;t even tell ASP that they&#8217;d signed [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the RIAA ended its infamous campaign. Two, the suing of All Shall Perish&#8217;s fans is being done without the band&#8217;s permission. Indeed, the band&#8217;s label, Nuclear Blast, didn&#8217;t even tell ASP that they&#8217;d signed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: En bref : All Shall Perish, Banned on the Run, Ray Charles en hologramme, One Direction &#124; Fan Actuel</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-924135</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[En bref : All Shall Perish, Banned on the Run, Ray Charles en hologramme, One Direction &#124; Fan Actuel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 12:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-924135</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] des fans qui partageaient leur dernier album sur Torrent. Après enquête de l&#8217;auteur de l&#8217;article en lien ici, l&#8217;auteur de la plainte serait en réalité World Digital Rights, Inc., une compagnie basée [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] des fans qui partageaient leur dernier album sur Torrent. Après enquête de l&#8217;auteur de l&#8217;article en lien ici, l&#8217;auteur de la plainte serait en réalité World Digital Rights, Inc., une compagnie basée [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Notrackingme &#124; Proxy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copyright Troll Causes Chaos By Suing Fans Without Band’s Permission</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-920756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Notrackingme &#124; Proxy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Copyright Troll Causes Chaos By Suing Fans Without Band’s Permission]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 21:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-920756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Source: Copyright Troll Causes Chaos By Suing Fans Without Band&#8217;s Permission [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source: Copyright Troll Causes Chaos By Suing Fans Without Band&#8217;s Permission [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JChrist</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-919153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JChrist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 04:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-919153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[f you took a moment to actually look up articles about the average
 financial input of a band like ASP or any other medium popularity metal
 band, you would understand that things like merch fees and music 
pirating are killing them.&quot;

Indeed. According to every article presented by the music industry, 
they are losing revenue. In fact they are still claiming that their 
&quot;losses&quot; by extension amount to 42 times the global GNP.


According to every independent scientific study commissioned by 
governments and produced by independent universities, the net &quot;loss of 
sales&quot; due to unauthorized copying and filesharing is nil.


I love it when some troll comes along blaming others for blatant 
ignorance while blithely asserting that his own &quot;knowledge&quot; comes from a
 source which has been proven to disregard any and all empirical 
evidence to the contrary, of which there is ample.


Nice try. I especially like how you make the claim that &quot;touring&quot; 
doesn&#039;t make money, given that every successful artist claims otherwise.
 Why don&#039;t you try asking Lady Gaga how much of her income comes from 
touring? Ah, you didn&#039;t want to hear &quot;80-90%&quot;? Fine.


And if you aren&#039;t successful enough as an artist to make money on 
touring then it&#039;s to be taken for granted that you wouldn&#039;t sell any 
records either. The silver lining is that no one will download you either. Enjoy.


You get a 10/10 for irrelevant nonsense, straw man argumentation and Lack of Facts.

Good job not understanding anything. You&#039;re comparing the finances of a platinum record, sold out arena, pop idol to that of a touring metal band? Using irrelevant comparisons to bend an arguement in your favor is really intelligent of you. No shit that major pop divas make a killing off of touring.

But if you actually took a moment to read what I posted, you would understand that I fairly clearly stated &quot;medium popularity metal bands.&quot; You know, like Periphery, All Shall Perish, Oh Sleeper. Bands that tour VENUES, not ARENAS, and arent backed by media campaigns so large it would make Michael Jackson jealous.

These bands themselves have posted accurate detailings of their finances. The average night on tour pays them about 300 in a guarantee, which is their immediate cut of the nightly profits. Then they make usually around 300 in Merch sales, and some in CD sales.

After subtracting gas, Tour Manager cut, merch guy cut, border fees, maintenance, food, necessities, they make around 10 bucks per person. Not millions like Lady Fucking Gaga. What precious little extra they make is directly associated with their own merch cut and cd sales.

The fact that venues are now demanding close to 30% cuts on merch sales, and increased music piracy leading to disinterest in cd sales, almost all privately interviewed metal bands have stated are their biggest profit cutters while on the road.

You see a band like Periphery, that has hundreds of thousands of fans? Sometimes they come home from tour with less money than they started with. Thats why Matt Halpern made BandHappy for extra income while on the road.

You may have general statistics but you have no real argument or facts when it comes to the actual metal scene specifically, Monastery.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>f you took a moment to actually look up articles about the average<br />
 financial input of a band like ASP or any other medium popularity metal<br />
 band, you would understand that things like merch fees and music<br />
pirating are killing them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed. According to every article presented by the music industry,<br />
they are losing revenue. In fact they are still claiming that their<br />
&#8220;losses&#8221; by extension amount to 42 times the global GNP.</p>
<p>According to every independent scientific study commissioned by<br />
governments and produced by independent universities, the net &#8220;loss of<br />
sales&#8221; due to unauthorized copying and filesharing is nil.</p>
<p>I love it when some troll comes along blaming others for blatant<br />
ignorance while blithely asserting that his own &#8220;knowledge&#8221; comes from a<br />
 source which has been proven to disregard any and all empirical<br />
evidence to the contrary, of which there is ample.</p>
<p>Nice try. I especially like how you make the claim that &#8220;touring&#8221;<br />
doesn&#8217;t make money, given that every successful artist claims otherwise.<br />
 Why don&#8217;t you try asking Lady Gaga how much of her income comes from<br />
touring? Ah, you didn&#8217;t want to hear &#8220;80-90%&#8221;? Fine.</p>
<p>And if you aren&#8217;t successful enough as an artist to make money on<br />
touring then it&#8217;s to be taken for granted that you wouldn&#8217;t sell any<br />
records either. The silver lining is that no one will download you either. Enjoy.</p>
<p>You get a 10/10 for irrelevant nonsense, straw man argumentation and Lack of Facts.</p>
<p>Good job not understanding anything. You&#8217;re comparing the finances of a platinum record, sold out arena, pop idol to that of a touring metal band? Using irrelevant comparisons to bend an arguement in your favor is really intelligent of you. No shit that major pop divas make a killing off of touring.</p>
<p>But if you actually took a moment to read what I posted, you would understand that I fairly clearly stated &#8220;medium popularity metal bands.&#8221; You know, like Periphery, All Shall Perish, Oh Sleeper. Bands that tour VENUES, not ARENAS, and arent backed by media campaigns so large it would make Michael Jackson jealous.</p>
<p>These bands themselves have posted accurate detailings of their finances. The average night on tour pays them about 300 in a guarantee, which is their immediate cut of the nightly profits. Then they make usually around 300 in Merch sales, and some in CD sales.</p>
<p>After subtracting gas, Tour Manager cut, merch guy cut, border fees, maintenance, food, necessities, they make around 10 bucks per person. Not millions like Lady Fucking Gaga. What precious little extra they make is directly associated with their own merch cut and cd sales.</p>
<p>The fact that venues are now demanding close to 30% cuts on merch sales, and increased music piracy leading to disinterest in cd sales, almost all privately interviewed metal bands have stated are their biggest profit cutters while on the road.</p>
<p>You see a band like Periphery, that has hundreds of thousands of fans? Sometimes they come home from tour with less money than they started with. Thats why Matt Halpern made BandHappy for extra income while on the road.</p>
<p>You may have general statistics but you have no real argument or facts when it comes to the actual metal scene specifically, Monastery.</p>
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		<title>By: Scjohnson</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-919017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scjohnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 21:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-919017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Corporations/Companies love handing out lengthy contracts full of judicial language that musicians simply do not understand. This is why we still have record companies in a whole, it&#039;s a grand money making scheme...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corporations/Companies love handing out lengthy contracts full of judicial language that musicians simply do not understand. This is why we still have record companies in a whole, it&#8217;s a grand money making scheme&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ninja</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-918907</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ninja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 18:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-918907</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ @34cd9fe4e56be69be82eea2bedd23468:disqus according to the Zediva case it all depends on the length of the cord. If it&#039;s too long it&#039;s public performance and they are screwed. lmao]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> @34cd9fe4e56be69be82eea2bedd23468:disqus according to the Zediva case it all depends on the length of the cord. If it&#8217;s too long it&#8217;s public performance and they are screwed. lmao</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ninja</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-918906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ninja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 18:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-918906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Paraphrasing                                       Fred:

Eh?
                                                                                                          ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Paraphrasing                                       Fred:</p>
<p>Eh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-918735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 10:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-918735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since a lot of labels use &quot;hollywood accounting&quot; when calculating royalty, the usual band will sign away those royalties as there is, in practice, never a profit to be shown from sales.

Underhanded? Well, yes. If you sign with a label you have in effect most of the time made a deal with the sleaziest con man in town. Stands to reason you either learn to swindle them right back or perish.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since a lot of labels use &#8220;hollywood accounting&#8221; when calculating royalty, the usual band will sign away those royalties as there is, in practice, never a profit to be shown from sales.</p>
<p>Underhanded? Well, yes. If you sign with a label you have in effect most of the time made a deal with the sleaziest con man in town. Stands to reason you either learn to swindle them right back or perish.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>/copyright-troll-causes-chaos-by-suing-fans-without-bands-permission-120429/#comment-918734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 10:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=50283#comment-918734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, not really. Personally I can hope that the band will have learned their lesson and - assuming there&#039;s anything left of their &quot;careers&quot; after this - will never sign with a label again unless they keep and maintain full and exclusive rights to their own music.

Option C in other words.

I would make a case that the law should bar &quot;rightsholders&quot; from legal intervention if person A makes a copy of a file for person B as this was extensively hashed out in court several times already in the legal battles surrounding the tape cassette, the CD, and even the vinyl record.

Copying without profit motive is fair use. It&#039;s that simple. Any law claiming differently is one which needs to be changed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, not really. Personally I can hope that the band will have learned their lesson and &#8211; assuming there&#8217;s anything left of their &#8220;careers&#8221; after this &#8211; will never sign with a label again unless they keep and maintain full and exclusive rights to their own music.</p>
<p>Option C in other words.</p>
<p>I would make a case that the law should bar &#8220;rightsholders&#8221; from legal intervention if person A makes a copy of a file for person B as this was extensively hashed out in court several times already in the legal battles surrounding the tape cassette, the CD, and even the vinyl record.</p>
<p>Copying without profit motive is fair use. It&#8217;s that simple. Any law claiming differently is one which needs to be changed.</p>
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