EZTV Trials TV-Torrent Streaming
Written by Ben Jones on July 26, 2008Last week, we wrote about the new attempt to invigorate video distribution, by mixing torrents with streaming video. Our piece piqued the interest of the leading TV-torrent distribution group , EZTV , and just a few hours ago, they launched a live-beta test of the technology for their ‘warez’.
TorrentFreak likes to be right there reporting important news, but it’s not that often that we are the catalyst for P2P developments. This, however, is one of those times. EZTV administrator ‘Novaking’ told TorrentFreak that the decision to start experimenting with Swarmplayer came after reading about the technology here last week, and it left him “intrigued”.
The Swarmplayer EZTV is experimenting with uses slightly modified torrent files (.tstream), which make it possible to stream video files using the BitTorrent protocol. This new technology allows publishers to offer video steams without having to pay for expensive bandwidth. Theoretically, you can watch all torrent files with the player but it’s recommended to use newer releases, as they often offer a higher swarm speed. Streaming the typical TV show will run to around 100kb/sec, a speed unattainable with their older television torrents due in part to the low peer numbers, as much as the larger piece size used in the pre-stream torrents.
Novaking isn’t too worried about the sequential piece transfer, and loss of the tit-for-tat impacting the speeds of the swarm for those not trying to stream. “The spread will be so wide in the first week,” he tells us, “that it won’t affect it greatly. Of course it’s impossible to tell until it’s fully live and working.” Currently, only their own torrents will be available via .tstream files, but the hope is that should the test prove successful during the next week, to have them for the torrents from their partner sites, such as MVgroup as well.
BitTorrent streaming is the ideal low-cost distribution model for online video. Here at TorrentFreak we have been testing out the Swarmplayer since its very early beta days with Mininova, and it does look to be a very promising development. However, the client does not (yet) have an option to keep a fully saved copy of the file on your system for later re-watching, and it also doesn’t allow you to change the port it uses. But these are minor issues that should be solved easily.
It is interesting to see that this multi-million dollar research project collaborates with torrent sites like Mininova, and mainstream broadcasters such as the BBC. Could this be the future of television? It is at least a possibility, and something for major networks to look at, as some already are (the BBC is a member of the group behind P2PNext, for example). EZTV’s Novaking certainly seems to think so. “We are hoping that TV networks start seeing this as a method to provide people with what they want”.
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34 Responses
Although i like the idea, i’m wondering how effective the streaming will be, considering all the throttling going on and such,
My favourite TV site doing a noble deed… kewl :-D
“However, the client does not (yet) have an option to keep a fully saved copy of the file on your system for later re-watching,”
yes it does
im using it right now and it works realy well
what exactly is a tstream file? consider it broken.
but it appears there using a new server to distribute the content
“and it also doesn’t allow you to change the port it uses. But these are minor issues that should be solved easily.”
if its not broken) you can change the port
rick click icon > option > advanced > change port
If large commercial buisnesses start using bit-torrent, throttling will be a thing of the past.
It does seem promising. Yes, one can forsee the television industry using bit-torrent technology to garner/retain their viewers but to assume that the issue of illegal downloading would disappear is a bit presumptuous.
Is it just me, or is there something wrong with zoink.it? I can’t get any of the four TV shows that EZTV offers working. The two test files on trial.p2p-next.org works though.
Yes indeed, this sounds promising. Isn’t this exactly what the media industry should have developed a long time ago, rather than wasting billions on suing the shit out of their customers?
Two words…..WHOO HOO!!!
@flabberjack
“if its not broken) you can change the port
rick click icon > option > advanced > change port”
It is broken, it reverts straight back to the default port (8620 iirc)
it does indeed change back :-/
\Application Data\.SwarmPlayer\downloads
is the default save folder for the stream.. and it can be saved via the save buttom when its fully downloaded.
I have tried it now on several sources, some to great success. On a private site i even streamed a 720p x264. But on public sites like mininova i don’t see a very bright future for this software (unless all you dsl people gets a BW upgrade).
sounds promising, ive gotta say… i love the idea tho i think it will be not too smooth on my shitty comcast connection.
oh and those tstream files dont work on eztv just yet, 4 me atleast…
this basically means that people watching the stream will be leeching from those who download it via a normal client, without uploading anything. that doesnt sound very pleasant, and if the numbers of the stream users increase the swarm speed could drop dramatically. this is everything bittorrent was built to prevent.
not at all, the truth, it just doesn’t, from my understanding of the protocol, keep the entire file in a place that can be watched seperately. If I was wrong, I’ll gladly admit it. I have no problems admitting when I was wrong.
The client will keep running, and if you mouseover the icon in the systemtray, it will tell you how much you’re uploading, and how many peers you are helping.
You are uploading and downloading with Swarmplayer just like any other client.
ah, that does indeed sound better. i dont really know much about the swarmplayer, i just figured this from reading the article.
looks like i got it wrong
Is zoink.it down for anyone else? (The server with the .tstream files on it?)
This is idiotic. I’ve changed open-source clients to do this years ago. Instead of using rarest-first algorithm (which is the best for swarm health), use earliest-first (which effectively gets the file in linear order and is very detrimental to the swarm).
This won’t work on any torrent that contains .rar archives, which is what I would advice everyone to start doing again to put a stop to this type of bullshit.
(haven’t read any other commments yet)
Interesting idea, does seem like it could be good to be able to watch the latest episode of [whatever] without having to wait for it to complete, but I wonder about whether users will remain inclined to feed back into the swarm to a 1:1 ratio (to be fair) once they’ve finished watching. It could create a league of hit+runners, intentionally, or not.
Not sure why it was said that the swarmplayer doesn’t allow you to save out the file? There’s a button labelled ‘SAVE’ on the player and afaik (i did test it once) it does let you save the file out, at least after you’ve reached 100% data completion.
You can configure the port, too, if you right-click the systray icon and select options > advanced. You can set an upstream bandwidth limit there also.
Will be interesting to see what becomes of it.
I don’t think this will create any more hit and runs than there already is. You don’t need the video player running to keep seeding: Unless they clear their cashe between every torrent they will start seeding all torrents in their download folder again every time they download something new
Everything you stream (not live) are saved in \Application Data\.SwarmPlayer\downloads and every time you start your client you will start seeding those again.
Only video that is 100% done downloading is saved
Unless im wrong
18: This is idiotic. I’ve changed open-source clients to do this years ago. Instead of using rarest-first algorithm (which is the best for swarm health), use earliest-first (which effectively gets the file in linear order and is very detrimental to the swarm).
Correct. It’s just common sense - even the Azureus wiki warns against in-order downloading!
See, for the streaming to work correctly, everyone must have pretty high upload speeds. Almost no one does - I know I’m seeding all my torrents for at least a full day after the download completes just to get 1:1 because my upload speed is so much smaller than my download.
If too many people start using the streaming clients, it will be the same as when people use leeching clients. Bittorrent swarms will die off much too quickly.
@Flabberjack: The people who will use streaming clients won’t think of it that way. They’re the people who can’t wait a half hour or an hour for their show - and will also be the people that erase the file as soon as they’re done with it. At least with a regular client, they’re delayed for twice as long - the downloading + the watching.
There’s been lots of discussion on this on the p2p-hackers mailing list. The overall conclusion is unless you have high numbers of seeders and relatively few leechers, it’s not going to work.
A FoxTorrent developer says:
“when there are lots of seeders it works great, but otherwise it’s terrible. This seems more an artifact of the BitTorrent ‘positive amnesiac’ design
(intentionally forgetting downloaders) than any sort of implementation issue.”
The btfs developer says:
“I did some experiments with streaming using BitTorrent. I wrote btfs, which lets me mount a torrent as a FUSE file system, and then access only what I need. In short, the results are excellent if there are generous high-bandwidth seeds and few leaches, and sucks if otherwise.”
That said, there are peer-to-peer protocols designed specifically for video streaming. Joost is perhaps the most notable in practice, however it’s proprietary.
I began working on my own protocol some 5 years ago but haven’t yet managed to popularize it:
http://distribustream.org
There’s also Tribler, which is what P2P Next has thrown their weight behind.
Why anyone would try to convert BitTorrent into a streaming protocol, especially when there are protocols designed to do this from the ground-up, makes absolutely no sense to me.
@Flabberjack
I think you’ll probably be right there. I hope you are too. It’s just a concern really, and maybe an irrational one. ;)
yes i agree… this will NEVER work on public torrents because there are to many people with to low upload and the rest think just like you!
a program can only be as good as the people using it so don’t blame the software just because people are assholes
on the other hand it would work realy well on a private site since people there actualy seed!.
zoink.it the site that is hosting EZTV’s tstream files is currently down but will be back online soon apparently.
In regards to some of the comments here. EZTV has a huge initial seeding swarm therefore brand-new torrents will stream fine. Also older torrents with good ratios will stream fine. However, it’s the semi-new torrents with very large numbers of leechers and relatively few seeders that will have difficulties.
if i were EZTV i would have split the two swarms so that the “normal” torrent users dont mix with the .tstream users
And yes earliest-first in a normal torrent swarm would be less than optimal and it would slow down downloading. But in this case i don’t think its relevant since everyone wants the same pieces and you have the entire length of the movie to download it instead of trying to download it as fast as possible and then watch it.
at 100k per second that works out to around half the bitrate of standard torrent files, i wonder how the picture looks?
http://ladysmooth.com/
Wow, that was quite an interesting article was it not?
JT
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com
It’s an interesting concept and I’m looking forward to “next week”, the promised release date for SwarmPlayer for Mac. (I just wonder how for many weeks it’s been “due next week”.)
Even if the technology’s not perfect, it’s a step in the right direction. Television executives are sloooooowly getting on the bandwagon of non-traditional distribution methods, as most networks now stream some or all of their programs online. The problem here, and this is more a problem of antiquated copyright laws, is that legal streams are only available in the country that owns the network. I’d love to legally stream NBC programs from the UK, and when I get back to Canada, I’d love to watch Dr Who on BBC’s iPlayer.
I love to see technology developing to allow global sharing of media, and hopefully as the technology progresses, lawmakers will start to move in a more progressive direction as well.
Whats is the big deal, AntTV did this years ago.
I think that technology like this could really only work if you have a big distributor working to seed the files, like a tv company. That way the hit and runners dont matter, yet everyone still helps each other.
Call me old fashioned, but I dont like streaming that much, I like downloading it and having it. Also I hate watching stuff on my computer (I send it over to my HDTV) so if there was a cool interface in which I could choose to stream easily, I would, but im not gonna dig through torrents just to stream them.. im a couch potato.
I started tinkering around some myself. Not a lot of seeds on this public torrent at the moment, but quite a few seedboxes. It should be a good display of how things can initially get started. I’m in the US where the seede boxes are located, so it worked for me to my home swarmplayer with no issues at all. I’m sure those who are some distance away will have different results, but if anyone wants to give this a test, feel free:
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/tstream.php?id=24354&name=Syd.Barrett.Crazy.Diamond.2008-05-23.BBC4.Omnibus.tstream
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