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Hollywood Has Ruined Relationship With ISP It Sued Over Piracy

In his presentation to the “The Future of Audio” hearing yesterday, RIAA chief Cary Sherman spoke of the music industry more frequently steering towards voluntary agreements for dealing with online infringement, such as the “six strikes” deal struck with ISPs recently. But what can happen when agreements can’t be reached? After Hollywood couldn’t get an ISP to voluntarily play ball they sued – and lost – and now find themselves being chastised by the ISP in public.

In November 2008 and after three years of voluntary discussions that went nowhere, the Hollywood movie studios under the banner of the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT) decided to would be a good business decision to sue ISP iiNet.

Their aim was to hold the ISP responsible for the copyright infringements of its subscribers, an effort that ultimately failed in April this year.

For two and a half years, iiNet – who never engaged in any wrongdoing – were distracted by this massive legal action. Many of their key staff had to take huge amounts of time out from their normal roles in order to fend off the Hollywood attack dogs.

With the case now closed iiNet is getting back to its core business, but it’s apparent that the bad taste left behind after the earlier failed negotiations and subsequent legal action is going to take longer to go away. Reading through a blog post today by iiNet chief regulatory officer Steve Dalby, one has to wonder if the damage will ever be repaired.

Dalby’s article precedes a closed-door meeting today between Australia’s major ISPs, AFACT and other rightsholders, a consumer group, the Internet Society of Australia and the government. The topic is once again online infringement and from Dalby’s tone today and comments he made previously, it’s clear that iiNet have already lost faith in the process.

“I don’t need a crystal ball to tell you that the likely conclusion will be negligible change; as has been the situation since the 2005 Australia – US free trade agreement was signed,” Dalby writes.

“Little, if anything at all, is to be gained by engaging with rights holders for a commercial solution.”

The notion that rights holders cannot be negotiated with towards any mutually useful end is hugely problematic. As highlighted yesterday by RIAA chief Cary Sherman, negotiated agreements are now high on the recording industry’s agenda for moving forward, with ISPs and search engines for example.

But of course, the RIAA and its overseas counterparts haven’t yet sued an ISP in frustration after failing to get what they want, although publicly attacking Google is moving dangerously close to alienating a potentially useful partner. Hollywood has taken the nuclear option, however, and the results are visible on Dalby’s blog in black and white.

“AFACT and other rights holder bodies don’t care much for consumers. As you may have read, Neil Gane of AFACT thinks consumers are “unreasonable” to tell their suppliers of entertainment what they want.

“Actually, AFACT don’t have any customers in Australia, they are all in California, which unfortunately means that consumer pressure is unlikely to have much impact on their strategies. iiNet have suggested that they focus on what the market is demanding, but it’s a waste of breath. Their masters have set the agenda and rights holders will only do their bidding.

“A solution needs to be found but as far as AFACT goes, you might as well be talking to a brick wall,” Dalby continues.

It seems then that having failed in four years of negotiations and more than two and a half years of litigation, the people the studios need onside have already lost faith in reaching a voluntary agreement second time around.

That only leaves two options – having the law changed to favor Hollywood or giving those “unreasonable” consumers what they want. Place your bets gentlemen, please.

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  • Master

    I’m placing all my money on “having the law changed to favor Hollywood”

    • http://cheapassfiction.com/ Aelius Blythe

      Going to have to bet against you, my friend!

      I’d bet that ultimately, the consumers will win.  Not because it’s right.  Not because the industry gives a sht.  Not because the politicians give a sht.  But one of the virtues of capitalism is the power consumers have over business.  Or rather, the power consumers CAN have if they choose to take it up.  And in the case of the entertainment industries, consumers ARE taking up that power – little by little.  Both by supporting the legal solutions and not supporting the antiquated distribution methods, they are voting with their dollars.  

      Not soon, not easily, not happily, but ultimately, Hollywood – and the rest of the entertainment posse – will need to give us “unreasonable” consumers what we want or lose our patronage forever.

      But then again, I am an exceedingly foolish optimist.

      Oh, and go iiNet for sticking up for its customers!  Now if only more ISPs could take a lesson from them…

      • Flash

         I absolutely agree, the consumer will win. This Hollywood discussion is absolute bullcrap. The Internet did NOT invent pirating. I just remember my highschooldays when we were exchanging CDs and videocassettes in the breaks. And I mean tons of stuff, everyone had his own big CD-leather case that holds dozens of CDs. I don’t know a single person in my highschool days that DID NOT SHARE. If Hollywood succeeds in messing up the Internet we will come back to the old school methods of filesharing like LAN parties, open WirelessLAN meetups or new more secure filesharing services will circumvent it. You can’t force people to buy your stuff. I never understood a friend of me spending all his money on DVDs. But that’s just my way of viewing it, I don’t mind if it makes him happy – not me. I don’t like to spend loads of money on a DVD i watch 1 or 2 times and then the plastic-waste ends up in my shelf til it gets thrown away sometime. Maybe we should buy more of the enviromental unfriendly Hollywood stuff huh? If a friend invites me to a bottle (or more) of wine and wants to watch a movie afterwards (that i don’t possess) – it won’t make me run home crying because i feel guilty of not having bought the movie. Go f**** yourself for bringing up this nonsense shit on us.

        • Pamela J. Clark

          get their tiny little greedy brains around anything other than their own outmoded business plans. http://FoxGetRealJobs.notlong.com

        • http://lazycash1.com/ Anonymous

          my best friend’s sister-in-law got paid $14696 the prior month. she is making money on the inte<!–truth is almight–>rnet and bought a $372500 home. All she did was get blessed and work up the steps uncovered on this link 

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        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Agreed with that statement about high school. The only one in the entire school that didn’t share CD’s was me and that was because I didn’t really listen to that much music to be able to share.

        • http://zapit.nu/29o Teresa A. Shutt

           I think in a way it already has, given that the 6 strikes thing is toothless. http://DailyJobPosition7.notlong.com

        • CLL

           Reminds me of my highschool days. All someone had to do was buy some blank tapes, and if someone had a CD that someone wanted, they’d just dub it off. Even the teachers were participating in this. Hell, I had a friend who worked in the electronics section at the local Walmart, and I’d just hand him some blanks, and he’d dub the latest releases that I was interested in. Piracy has been around a lot longer than the internet, and people have felt that sharing music was a perfectly acceptable thing to do way before Napster came around.

        • Anonymous

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        • Anonymous

          my best friend’s sister-in-law got paid $14696 the prior month. she is making money on the inte<!–truth is almight–>rnet and bought a $372500 home. All she did was get blessed and work up the steps uncovered on this link 

          ?????? (Click At My Name For Link)

      • Sketch

        well said…..I will now bow to you with great respect,……

      • Andrew Lee

         Nah you’re right it’s bound to happen when shit gets bad enough. It’s just sad peoples definition of bad is so far away from mine. IMO Shit has been bad since the late 90′s and especially after 9/11.

        I’ve been mainstream media-less since the raid of Megaupload. I refuse to support the morons that want us in chains.

        Killing freedom is sick and they’ve been doing it for years now one string at a time. Just remember these people think ahead not in years or decades but in centuries. It’s great that people can think so far ahead but FFS it should be on problems that actually matter.

        What I am curious about is the six strikes what kind of deals of handing information over freely has been made. It’s very very important aspect of the deal for a few reasons.

        1.No more court subpenas to collect information.
         That is very important since it will allow them to be much more harsh with their threats.
        2. It allows them to ignore all jurisdictional laws completely.
         They can go after far more people like that instead of having to work with courts in largely populated areas.
        3. Options to use illegal methods to extort cash.
         With no courts involved it would not surprise me if a few people end up forking over material possessions to avoid being beat half to death. “Sounds crazy? Well think about this. Someone that has no problem suing you for 12 grand for a 8$ movie ticket do you think they care about morals?”

        That’s just a few things that will be available. I guarantee ISPs will have be handing over data when asked or this deal would be pointless. Six warnings then you can do what you like? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit is what I think about that.

        I’m sure people will find out soon enough just how much the ISPs are willing to sell out for. It’s not above the RIAA or others to offer some kick backs to the ISPs for giving them names,addresses, and more for a piece of the pie.

        • Andy P

          Six warnings then you can do what you like? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit is what I think about that.
          Agreed.  I smell something funny.

        • Guest

          What I don’t get is what’s to stop me from requesting other peoples details under the guise of copyright infringement with no court involved? Identity theft is already on the increase and this will only be another avenue for cyber crime.

        • F AFACT

          Fuck AFACT

      • The guy

        *Bows* with a great deal of respect for your choice of words to easily deduce the situations.

      • Anonymous

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    • Wizard of Odds

      The House always win… and we are The House
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  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    As long as there is this open form of bribery called lobbying and ppl will be silently staying by as if it doesnt concern them it will more likely be law changed in favor of Hollywood

    • Guest

      It’s really amazing how bribe can be such a normal thing.
      You’ll never see a politician voting against a law proposed by the same guys that payed the marketing that got him in office.
      Everyone somehow pretends it’s not bribery.

  • Master

    Neil Gane of AFACT must be braindead. Keep that attitude, and you’ll be out of a job in no time!

  • Anonymous

    no need to bet when there’s a sure thing running. when Gillard is so obviously being ‘encouraged’ by the entertainment industries to fall on their side, what do you expect? like stated, consumers are bottom of the list when it comes to being supplied with what they want to watch and listen to. funny though, how without those consumers, there would be nothing consumed, therefore with nothing bought, no salaries, no companies and no execs making c***ish decisions. if instead of demanding what they wanted to happen, the entertainment industries went into discussions prepared to negotiate, to listen to others, to realise that no one is going to take their side when it costs others money but them nothing to achieve only a one sided solution, perhaps then there would be sensible change. until that happens (and Hell freezes over!) there wont be anything gained by anybody. lose-lose situation for all! stupid!!

  • Dumb Hollywood

    These are the same organisations that tried (unsuccessfully) to get the video recorder blocked through the courts when it was first invented as they said it would be the end of the film industry. They were wrong then, they are wrong now, but just can’t get their tiny little greedy brains around anything other than their own outmoded business plans.

    Fuck off and die MAFIAA, you are a plague on humanity.

    • Guest

      Please stop thinking that they don’t know that their business model is outdated. The idea is if they can get technology to conform with their old business model then they will get to keep it. And with no plastic discs to sell this time, they would make a lot more money… These people are not stupid. Although they sure do act like idiots…

    • Anonymous

      Actually…you should read Rick Falkvinge’s blog post “A century of deceit”.

      http://falkvinge.net/2012/01/27/the-copyright-industry-a-century-of-deceit/ 

      This didn’t start with the VCR, it started in 1905. The enemy then and “the end of music” was the self-playing piano and the gramophone.

      “A famous letter in 1906 claims that both the gramophone and the self-playing piano will be the end of artistry, and indeed, the end of a vivid, songful humanity. People called for its ban, too.”

      • Techanon

        very interesting read, thanks.

      • Dumb Hollywood

        Wow, I didn’t realise it was anywhere as bad as that! Thanks for the link, a great read indeed.

        My favourite quote – “The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone”

        Kind of sums up their whole outlook on new technology!

        What really gets my goat though is that they have gone on to make shed loads of our cash from practically every item on that list once they stopped trying to bully the tech out of existence and embraced it. Fuckers.

  • Gearmentation

    Wonderful, let’s hope reason prevails with other ISPs.  I think in a way it already has, given that the 6 strikes thing is toothless.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!
  • Mark

    Keep you comsumers happy and adapt to what they want and listen to there feedback, at least that what should be done! But then then this is the hollywood we are talking about….

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/RKKPBJMHI22ZE7BO2BHOFA3TMM Volker

    I am so sick and tired of the propaganda, lies and bullshit coming from the MAAFIA
    and their lobby-whores

  • Anona

    If it had been left up to Hollywood, nobody would have bought tapes or records or cd’s or  vhs/dvd’s or bluray, so lets go back to that which they wanted. lets remove every innovation they fought against and only give them the income from those they supported, which were the cinema and the radio. All based on advertising.

    If that is where they wish they were lets go back to that, and kick them off the internet so it can be used for what it was made for, i.e sharing. And if they want to innovate and come onto the internet fine we will let them but with our rules and free sharing being the model they have to abide by. If they dont want to do this i am sure some entreprenure will come up with a way to generate the conditions needed to create good tv shows and great movies.

    If the movie industry is alienating all of there business partners, the people who provide the infrastructure for there content to be sold, they need to be very careful that the business partners don’t say enough is enough we are not going to bow down to you, you can bow down to us , the people who actually innovated to keep your business viable.

    Imagine if the studio that produces Game of Thrones suddenly decide to use kickstart to generate funds for the next season, around $50 million, that would only need 50 million people worldwide to donate $1 each and they would have the funds needed, And from what i see more than 200 million people worldwide watch there show. So some donate $5 and some $100 , kickstart could probably fund 5 seasons overnight if the advertised it enough, then they could provide it free of charge on the internet.And charge Tv Stations a minimum to air it.
    Now that is a business model that i personally would support, and don’t think kickstart would not get those funds ,I imagine they would have so much money they could produce a few other ideas that the people supported. I am not one for donating as i see what charities do with there money in most cases, salaries and fancy cars…
    But i would donate towards this and if they offered a few extras I would be very tempted to donate a little more than i would if i was going to watch a movie at a theater

    • Anonymous

      It’s a particularly delicious irony when you contemplate the salient fact that every business model used as a cash cow by the entertainment industry had to be forced on them.

      What we take for granted today is stuff they had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into accepting.

      And this is the entire problem in a nutshell. We are, in essence, butting heads with an organization whose dogmatic view literally is comparable only with that of the catholic church in the 16th century.

      When you look at AFACT of course, as well as the RIAA and MPAA however, what we are looking at is said church’s enforcement arm. Even should their clients adopt a more liberal and progressive view, these worthies would fight it tooth and nail. After all, copyright enforcement is where they see the bulk of their jobs.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Good point there. Every single change in business that has kept the recording industry and entertainment industry as a whole in business has had to be forced upon them by consumers.

        It’s getting old and it’s about time for our legislators (yes, they belong to us because it is us who vote them into office) stood with us and told these companies “Stop fighting new business models. Adapt to them or die, we are not going to prop up your old business models anymore.”

    • Mike Hunthurtz

      Game of thrones thing… Would not be classified as “Safe”, actors would need to be involved in some kind of “guild”, the film hands/camera people etc would have to be in some local “union”… None of these things can be done privately… I mean it’s private money that does it now, but it’s all so intertwined with societies basic rules and laws in any given area, you’d be surprised the kinds of roadblocks that come up when you “just want to pay whatever it costs to get it done how I want it”.
      Roadblocks on permits, roadblocks on union stuff, local stuff, government stuff, municipal (local) federal, etc… You have to ask for permission everywhere you go, for everything, and it’s default deny, unless you’re with or working for some kind of company that’s paid it’s bribes, erm, dues.
      Roadblocks on how/where/from which country you can then sell your finished product, which technologies were used in filming and post production and thus are or aren’t allowed certain access or priorities on “shaped” networks.
      You’d have to have your product deemed satisfactory, or safe, or of decent content, or whatever for every whatever you wanted to market on, through and in… It’s tiring.
      Entertainment is a preferred junta-only/line-tower role in any society you can name.  

  • Anonymous

    No surprise at all that iiNet have no love for AFACT after being dragged through the court system and appeal after appeal for years. Then these negotiations are simply an insult. iiNet’s position has been validated in the highest Court in Australia but here they are still trying to team up to twist their arm.

    We may also recall that iiNet has already offered them a fair deal in that Hollywood provides official content to Australia and iiNet will help protect against infringement or in other words content not available in Australia is not protected.

    There is also the key topic of who will pay the many millions involved in order to establish such a protection scheme and naturally AFACT’s members have little desire to pay that bill.

    My only hope now is that Hollywood does not bribe the Government to regulate and force iiNet to tale action. They already did that in the UK with the DEA. :-/

    • Danny

       We should have killed mandy for the DEA!

  • Anonymous

    Well now that makes a whole lot of sense dude.
    Anon-Privacy.tk

    • Spam_Dammers

       If you do that again, I’m gonna stick an umbrella up your ass and open it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/orphicdragon Trisha Lynn Dragon

        Vid please :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/II3GBDZ3CN2A525UWZ35PIFVNA Eddie

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  • Randy_Lahey

    Hollywood: Why we can’t have nice things.

  • Anonymous

    Everything would be better if everyone just do their job and stopped screwing around.

    MAFIAA (australian or not), should just do whatever they are supposed to do, instead of bitch and moan every step of the way

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pac-Ducor/100000183951976 Pac Ducor

    I got €50 on the irresponsible people

  • Hh

    I cant believe this pathetic society we have.

    Sooner or later people aren’t going to feel at home n thier own country.
    And it is going to get to the point where I may just want to move to a country that lets me be free

    • Anonymous

       If I had the money I would leave USA in a heartbeat.

  • Guest

    And this will be one of the biggest fators in the inevitable eventual fall of the RIAA and MPAA.
    They are bigots and they’re making a PR mess by fighting everyone, their own industries, other industries, technology and the people.

    Nobody wants to bother dealing with them or relating to them anymore and with good reasons.
    That will kill them and it’s just a matter of time.
    The trend has already begun, numbers don’t lie and it’s become normal over the internet to see statments such as “I won’t buy that song/movie” or “Let’s not make deals with that artist/studio” because they’re with the RIAA/MPAA.
    Yep

    • Anonymous

       Yes !
      Boycott ALL MAFIA
      SUPPORT & PURCHASE INDIE
      CHECK OUT KICKSTARTER & OTHERS LIKE IT
      If 6 Strikes comes to you raise living hell on the ISP who did it.
      Fuck you RIAA & MPAA & your stooges

  • Gae

    The problem is their idea of negotiations is ‘you better do what we demand or were going to force you to do it anyway’

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Basically and I don’t understand why the ISP’s don’t give them the middle finger and say “I’ll see you in court! Expect to lose after your latest setback however!”

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    • SparksGeorge Fuck Off And Die

      @twitter-601898118:disqus “as Phillip explained I am stunned that any one can get paid $8654 in 1 month on the computer.”

      $8654 in one month for whoring isn’t bad actually. Who paid the $4?

      “everyone”

      • Anonymous

        Don’t effin reply to spam comments -.-!
        They can’t be deleted entirely if you do. Just flag them and move on.. 

        • Point Taken

           fair enough

  • h33t

    excellent article. that is what it is all about now throughout the vertical
    chain from consumers to websites to ISPs to governments to rights’
    holders:

    “The notion that rights holders cannot be negotiated with towards
    any mutually useful end is hugely problematic.”

    i tried negotiating with them and i was accused of criminal extortion. there is no reasoning with these people

    the specific rights holders making all the problems are a very small
    but very well funded body of sociopaths. one wonders how they came to be
    so well funded that they can play puppeteer with national interests
    of citizens. where the hell did they get all their money? from ripping off consumers

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=537907264 Tro Den

    iiNet is my ISP and I’m proud to be there customer.

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  • Anonymous

    I totallt agree  ”That only leaves two options – having the law changed to favor Hollywood or giving those “unreasonable” consumers what they want. Place your bets gentlemen, please.”

  • BMTillman

    Have the ISP’s pull the plug on their internet access at these studios and the RIAA.  See who needs who the most.

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  • http://www.paliinstitute.com/ Sheena Whitt

    I don’t need a crystal ball to tell you that the likely conclusion will be negligible change.

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