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Illegal Downloading Is Scumbag Theft By Copyright Bandits Says Media Giant CEO

The chief executive of one of Australia’s biggest media companies has come out all guns blazing in an attack on Internet piracy and those who carry it out. Speaking at the Australian International Movie Convention, News Limited CEO Kim Williams described movie downloading as “scumbag theft” carried out by “copyright bandits” and called for new legislation to protect the entertainment industries. “The scale of this theft makes the London riots of last year look like children stealing [candy] from a shop,” he said.

The failure of the Australian AFACT vs iiNet trial to force Internet service providers to take responsibility for online piracy has not dampened the anti-piracy rhetoric down-under. Indeed, if a keynote speech from the CEO of one of Australia’s largest media corporations is anything to go by it has already reached new levels.

Kim Williams, CEO of News Limited, a News Corporation owned company behind nearly 150 newspapers and wide interests in pay TV, film and Internet, gave a keynote speech at the Australian International Movie Convention today. He used the opportunity to launch a broadside on illegal downloading and called for fresh legislation to tackle the “scumbag theft” being carried out by file-sharers.

Mr Williams claimed that more than a third of all Australians have downloaded material without permission and that 65% of all BitTorrent-distributed material is consumed illegally. He said that without action that percentage would only worsen to the point where the current 65% would “look like a pathetically modest nun’s picnic.”

Williams was quoting figures provided by the Intellectual Property Awareness Foundation, a group directly linked to AFACT and one that has had its conclusions questioned before. Nevertheless, he wasn’t done with that 65% stat just yet.

“Imagine the great works that are not being produced because the digital bandits are creating virtual pirate Globe Theaters and virtual literary magazines and making off with possibly 65 per cent of the profits,” Williams said.

“If you think I’m exaggerating, think again, because the copyright bandits of the paper age of Shakespeare and Dickens had nothing on the copyright kleptomaniacs of the digital age.”

Williams said that film piracy cost the Australian economy $1.37 billion last year and claimed that downloaders were less likely to buy movie products or use services such as iTunes, despite reports and music industry stats to the contrary.

And to those who say they download because the legal alternatives just aren’t there, Williams said that he rejects that claim, but even if true it would amount to a poor defense.

“Your honour, I did smash that window, and I did steal that piece of jewelry, because the shop was shut, and anyway they were asking too much for it,” Williams quipped.

“My response is an unequivocal -‘Take him down constable’,” he said.

In addition to calling on government to tighten up copyright law, Williams said that ISPs need to play their part and take responsibility for the actions of their users. He said that research had shown that more than 70% of illegal downloaders would stop if their ISP threatened to cut their service.

However, as noted in our earlier article on 2011 figures from IPAF that reached an almost identical conclusion, a closer look at the numbers shows a different picture.

“Illegally downloading [digital content] is the equivalent of smashing a window and taking it,” Williams added. “But the scale of this theft makes the London riots of last year look like children stealing [candy] from a shop. It may be hidden from view but internet piracy has become the biggest heist since Ronnie Biggs took an interest in trains.”

Earlier this year News Limited was mired in a copyright controversy of its own when the company was accused of pay TV piracy, claims that were vigorously denied by Williams.

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  • Gargamel

    I think i’ll go download some Aussie Films right now just to piss him off :)

    Fuck you, and throw another shrimp on the barbie :D

    • yello

      yer… looks like im part of that trash that makes australia  a great place to live… except for the nice, lovely personalitied guys like kim williams

      • Guest

        Kim Williams, fuck you.

    • JordanKratz

       The Big Media Corporations are the SCUMBAG THIEVES !
      FUCK YOU !

      • http://twitter.com/Ernestpxj Ernestpxj

        like Eva answered I am blown away that some one able to make $5596 in a few weeks on the network. have you seen this(Click on menu Home)

      • http://twitter.com/Ernestpxj Ernestpxj

        ….
        goo.gl/J3Ufg

      • Axeman

        Agreed. Price-fixing by a megalomaniac monopoly is also theft in my opinion, so as the guy said, FUCK YOU.

        • Crafty Shrub

          Pirates are making off with 65% of the profits? I download plenty and have yet to see my share of the cut. Hopefully my cheque for thousands of dollars will arrive in the mail soon.

          Go ahead. Bribe government officials and get all the laws you want. It won’t change a damn thing, except perhaps make the general public more inclined to rise up against your oppressive agenda.

          Humanity has been sharing since the dawn of time and we’ll all still be sharing, just like all good people should, when the curtains close for the final time on this little blue planet.

          In the meantime you’re welcome to stand on the beach, attempting to tell the tide it cannot come in. Just a friendly warning though, your odds of success are about the same as preventing a category five hurricane from making landfall right where your house is located so you might want to take that into account when deciding whether or not to make the attempt.

          Good luck! :)

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      That’s totally my kneejerk reaction too. Fuck that asshole. Fucking propaganda.

    • Anon

      Dude, your post made me laugh. Too funny. :-) Thanks!

    • Banana

       Scumbag is their oligopoly and dirty practices against supposed “pirates”.

    • chronoss chiron

      ya then ill burn movies it all goto a park and hand them out by tossing them inside cases  all over the park…..then wearing my eye patch make a speeding get away on my pirate ship hahaha

      • John Spartan

        lol im soo doing that now

    • meowmix

      heh. i dled all 4 series of underbelly a while back. i just started watching them last night. i like the way the roo fuckers (a bunch of criminals exported from england) complain about ilegal dl’s from ciminals of imoral cunts exploiting crime to make money on tv.

      if none of you have watched underbelly, i highly recommend it.

      • Snoopy

        As an Australian I wouldn’t watch a second of Underbelly. It’s total crap! As for your opinion about roo fucking and criminals from England you couldn’t be more wrong. You typically (as in Amerikkan world outlook) have no idea how Australia was founded.

        • Danny

          We (the British) conquered and built prisons which is where the history starts.
          It was a penal colony to start with!

          Though a bit later a lot of people thought it was a nice place so emigrated.

        • GDay Cobber

          I thought it was founded (and continues to be) on the blood of the native aboriginals, a bit like the americas. When you’ve given them back their land, then I’ll listen to your opinions about the birth of your country. After all, they were only there about 50,000 years before you.

        • Guest

          GDay Cobber -

          You’re entirely correct. The “miracle” of the Australian economy is based on selling mining resources to China. We Australians don’t actual produce anything much.

          And those resources were stolen from the original Australians who weren’t even recognised as human until 1967. Think Avatar.

          Unfortunately, the British have an iron grip on the politics/media here. Both our PM and alternative PM are from the UK. Despite a lot of racist hand-wringing about trivial numbers of refugees seeking asylum in Australia, the vast majority of illegal immigrants hail from the British Isles. But the Immigration Dept isn’t too keen to put white faces in the concentration camps, so the problem goes unnoticed.

          Not-so-amusingly, the loudest Australian “patriots” are usually first generation English who will bleat about the originals being primitive nothings, undeserving of enjoying the riches of their own lands.

          Australia has a very rich history of non-Anglo immigration, but it isn’t taught in the curriculum. (My ancestor emmigrated from Norway in the mid 19th century and merged their bloodlines with Irish and local indigenous folk.) Everyone from the Dutch, to the Portuguese to the Chinese discovered Australia prior to the English, who promptly claimed it as their own and exported Irish political dissidents here – the so-called “convicts.” Many of their “crimes” were “Gathering more than three in public,” and “Speaking out against King and crown.”  You get the idea.

          TL:DR

          Australia is not the British-based paradise of propaganda. It is so much more.

        • Guest

          Australia was the offshore prison that the UK sent it’s prisoners too!

          Why do you think people refer to Australia as the land of convicts? go figure!

        • Tseug

          Guest:
          You could say nearly the exact same thing about America and it would still be entirely incorrect, and typical “emmigrant” ancestry isn’t taught in schools for clear and obvious reasons does it really need to be spelled out for you?

          Thinking Australia is or even was rich in any way because of the tiny threads of immigrant history would be identical to calling Skyrim overflowing with content because of it’s many side fetch quests.

          Your point is invalid as it is pathetic.

    • Zolpa

      Aussie films?! This guy is from News Limited – a branch of News Corporation – Rupert Murdoch’s Australian media company.

      Most Aussie films have nothing to do with these guys, and are in fact, low-budget independent productions. Because Australia doesn’t have a big enough market for home-made blockbusters, apparently.

      So please Boycott News Limited, News Corporation, Fox, and 20th Century Fox, as well as Harper Collins books.

      • taau

        but I like Harper Collins (and more to the point psychical books), Hmm what if I just buy them 2nd hand cause that is just as bad a piracy, isn’t it? what it’s not! no way!

    • Musa Angelica

      well… if you find anything worth stealing let me know… because I can count the number of good Australian films on one hand

      • Aussie

        Coming from an Australian there is honestly nothing of real quality film wise that comes to mind, Australian music has more influence then our movies internationally. Though you can check out “Animal Kingdom” but in saying that, it’s not for everyone.

        also just to throw out there, Australian politicians like to be the “First” to do something against a “bad” cause to show their devotion to their whip holding american counterparts. My bets on parliament bringing in some stupid useless law before the public gets a say. A law that fixes nothing.

      • lattari

        How about Romper Stomper :)

    • Itsmeruthere

      There will always be a “black market” for merchandise.
      Isn’t it ironic that media giants and electronics producers who have controlled the formatting from day one got what they deserved. How many times have I had to upgrade my stuff to be able to enjoy what I like. They got my money for this laptop and my internet bill was $50 this month alone to the big media company here. So I say sorry thats all I can afford and yes its against the law and honestly yes I know I am a thief. But when you gouge the consumer beyond their means then there will always be shady alternatives and it sucks cause I really liked having extra money and shopping at the record shop for music and going to the movies to see a show. But all my disposable income is gone along with most of my hours at work thanks to big business. Maybe if you weren’t so greedy we could all afford to pay honestly.

      PS to 1% – Go fuck yourself.

  • Clueless Leaders

    Stupid and clueless – the new trademark for business leaders.

    • Nick

       I love the way he argues with his own sources lol…

  • John

    Fat, balding dude is a puppet of the Illuminati.  He just doesn’t know it.

    • Alfred Nonymous

      Please don’t. It’s hard enough as it is now to counter organizations like the MIAA and their non-US counterparts without Illuminati-conspiracy-guys like you running around damaging the credibility of our cause with every single word you say. If we are to make a proper stand, we have to be taken serious by the mainstream media, which will cause the politicians who make the legislation to take us seriously. Saying someone is an Illuminati puppet will not help with that (whether it’s true or not, but that’s not the point here), I hope you can see why without having it spelled out for you.

      • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

        MIAA = Missing In Action Association. Love it.

      • Guest

         but it IS true…     :(

        • Bobb

          Far too often that which is ascribed to shadowy and malicious manipulations is simply the results of chaos, incompetance and overactive imaginations.

      • Yogaflame

         No one listens or cares about mainstream media anymore, unless you’re a baby boomer.

      • chronoss chiron

        except the main stream media is owned by the very people that dont take you seriously aka mpaa friends LOOK at media ownership pal….better off being crazy and passionate, fact is yes the illuminati is a joke …to out the most violent of us that may be required should we actually on this earth have to rebel against the corporate control that keeps tightening.

        never forget that we are the real power and we give it to them by sitting here all day whining and posting while they pass more laws…..

      • PiRat

        Look who owns these media conglomerates, bankers, they want complete control over distribution of information so they can have their one world government.

        Also people that tend to label others for radical views as ‘conspiracy theorists’ are either in the bankers pocket or thick as shit as they don’t present a counter argument.

        • Guest

          Bankers don’t give a shit about controlling the distribution of information, they just want banks to be privatized. 

          Don’t blame something else for the sins of these media conglomerates. You’re  letting them off the hook if you do that.

        • FakeElections

          The Banks, the media/news companies along with the largest corporation all want to control the flow of free media. They have too many countries left to invade or exploit. This isn’t a conspiracy, its common sense. Its all about money.

      • Guest

         A global elite is the reality. You should wake the fuck up!

      • Snoopy

        Oh you’re a puppet to. There is no case for supporting piracy which is the bad point you are pushing. Therefore you have no credibility to begin with.

        • 2 Cases For Piracy

           Course there is, 1) it means I get free stuff, and 2) fuck you.  :p

      • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

         It is easy to ridicule these conspiracy theories, and I have little doubt there is much imagination involved. However, do you really believe that the obscenely rich and frighteningly powerful 1% do not get together over bottles of Bolly to figure out how they can manipulate the world to their own selfish advantage? Whether they succeed or not, I do not know, but I think one has to be naive to believe they do not try, whatever we choose to call them.

        Having said that, I agree with you about not pushing the Illuminati line; it is too airy-fairy and liable to be laughed at. The MAFIAA is a much more emotive and worrying prospect, and even the most sanguine of folk are, I feel, getting pretty sick of their openly disgusting behaviour. For me, publicly claiming that downloading a movie is worse than major riots, destruction and mass murder in a city full of innocent people deserves him the sack. What an imbecile. I hope the Australian people will implement a total boycott of his company.

      • lattari

        Thank you for that. These conspiracy-gospel guys are driving me crazy. They’re all over the place.

  • hmm

    knob

  • Flex

    they always make it out worse than it is to cover up thier greed funny that these companys think they are the law and we should all do as wer told lol

    • chronoss chiron

      YOUR WINNING – charlie sheen great example for kids aint he 

  • Duke

    Interesting (and a little odd) to see that you’ve translated “a lolly” into “candy” in your summary. Does that word really not translate into American English?

    • Twelve

      I’m American and what’s a lolly?

      • IvAnn

        Part of a song.  You know… “Lolly lolly lolly get your adverb here.”   AND some kind of candy I guess.

      • Lolk

         I’m also American, and I’m guessing it’s a lollipop.

        • Mmm Lollies

           I’m not american, do I get a lolly?

        • AusMonkey

           google FTW

    • Yogaflame

       A lolly is short for Lollipop here in America, which is hard candy on a stick.

      • IvAnn

        You honestly think he was being serious and not messing with the other guy?   “hard candy on a stick”?  Wow.  It’s a SUCKER!   And I can’t even imagine a guy saying they’d like a ‘lolly’.  That’s so damn prissy. 

  • British Buccaneer

    People pirate what they don’t intend to purchase. I pirate movies, music and games that I couldn’t give a rats ass about.

    People still buy the things they really do want. Why so butthurt Australia?

    • Wormlore

      And the answer is if you don’t care about these, why do you pirate them at all?
      If that’s the “test run” excuse, don’t phrase it like you’re just piling up trash without a reason. If you are piling up trash without a reason, don’t brag about it. It hurts people trying to fight a reasonnable fight against unreasonnable odds. You’re just giving free excuses to lobbies to push for more regulations. “Look, they want our products, they crave for it, they want to pile them up like there’s no tomorrow… but they just don’t want to pay for it.” And honestly, when I read you, for a very short moment I can’t help but wondering if they are not in the right.

      So stop bragging about pirating any and every thing you “don’t want”. Either don’t get them, or at least stay quiet. It’s already hard trying to explain people making laws that these laws are abused by the ones asking for them, trying to fight the pure power of nearly unlimited money, you come and destroy our only advantage: reason.

      • No Invites

        Your argument makes no sense. BB stated that the 1 download 1 sale argument was crap as he wouldn’t buy the things he downloaded anyway. I am exactly the same – I have albums that I’ve downloaded that I’ve listened to once, some never. I stopped buying music a long time ago as it was a complete rip off, there is no way that I would purchase albums now whether I download them to listen to a track once or not.

        I download games, try them for 5 mins and bin them because most games are shit. You think I should be paying £40 a pop for the pleasure of that do you? Thats the reason I stopped buying games, I realised I was paying for big steaming piles of turd.

        Piracy gives me access to things that I would not be paying for anyway, and to be honest most things wouldn’t be worth the asking price. If piracy stopped tomorrow, the corporations would genuinely not get an extra penny from me, and lets not kid ourselves that the artists are suffering – this is all about corporate profits and fat cats. And they can go fuck themselves.

        • Wormlore

          What you didn’t understand is that I know that the “1 dl/1 lost sale” argument is completely baseless. But there are two kinds of “massive downloaders” I can think of:
          - the “trial downloader”: one who downloads things he wants to test before buying. In a world where you can’t buy everything, you want to know what you buy and the offer is lacking in that regard. This kind of download shouldn’t be too massive, since it’s supposed to aim at creations you might like. If you just know you won’t like the latest Justin Bieber song, why bother at all? Otherwise, I totally agree with the point of downloading to try before paying when games (particularly) are so expensive. That’s not the way I do things, but I can relate to this.
          - the “compulsive downloader”: this one just downloads anything just because it’s there for the taking. He knows he will never have use for most, if any at all, of those “products”. He just likes “taking things for free”. Though it’s not specially harmful either (as he just wouldn’t have bought all this either if it wasn’t free), it has no moral or commercial justification.
          - then there is a less massive “downloader” kind, the one who actually downloads what he would have bought if there wasn’t a free version available. This one does make a loss to the “industry”, but even part of these losses are the own industries fault for making defective offers (DRM, incomplete selections, …) However, no study conclusively proved that this proportion of downloaders is high enough to actually harm creation.

          The way BB talked, he belongs to the second category. (I might be mistaken that’s why I asked him to phrase it another way if he’s not.) Though, as I already stated, this kind of downloader is not harming the “industries”, it gives them argument to plead their cause to unknowledgeable law-makers. (And I think it’s just stupid to brag about it anyway.) It’s not harmful to them, but it’s still harmful to us.

      • DrMarijuana

        Douche

        • Wormlore

          And your point is …?

  • djnforce9

    Yes, imagine the creative works that “don’t actually exist and were never going to” and the [insert large figure here] amount of money lost due to [insert percentage made up on the spot] of the people downloading illegally.  

    Seriously, Kim Williams is a moron just like the rest of the people trying to run anti-piracy campaigns. What takes the cake is “Earlier this year News Limited was mired in a copyright controversy of its own when the company was accused of pay”. Ever practice what you preach? Didn’t think so. Hopefully his retarded message simply fell on deaf ears and was not taken the least bit seriously. Just some rich guy’s whining.

  • Sekhand

    But just a question, is it morally correct to download a movie when the makers say they do not want you too?
    Why is it public property just because it is ‘art’?
    What about the small indie band that wants to sell CD’s or Flash Drives at the gig, but everyone says they will rather go to the bay and download?

    Just asking.

    • Sir

      Your question is asked in a very specific way without seeing the whole picture. It might not be right to download the indie band’s stuff per se, but the devil’s in the details. In poor countries, a cd, dvd or movie ticket might cost the equivalent of $600 or more (compared to the wages of the people). Would you pay $600 to buy a movie? Or would you download it (since the reproduction cost of a download is virtually zero).

      Even if you don’t think downloading is fair or moral, the “war on piracy” is a joke. Why would it be “fair” that a poor person would pay $250,000 in damages to a rich company, just to compensate for downloading a single mp3? Why would it be “fair” when USA ignores international law to take down megaupload, which has many legal uses and which actually helped indie artists get money (for sharing stuff for free!) before it was taken down.

      • Sekhand

        Agree on all points with war on piracy. My question is purely one of an individual making a choice and what the moral, not legal, implications are. Assuming there is some middle ground and acceptance of general right and wrong of course.

        • Anyone

          most of the stuff I download I would not pay to see
          it’s just more convenient to be able to download instead of having to wait until it comes to TV in a few years or ask friends to borrow their DVDs

          furthermore it is morally wrong to give any money to the MPAA/RIAA, because they use that money to ruin the lives of countless innocent people

        • IDIOCRACY

           Is it morally right to sell a DVD with a movie on it with the quality of a home video of Dan Quale (ok that could be very funny). Is it then morally wrong to first download it and see if it is worth buying.
          Is it morally right to sell a DVD from an indie artist that was kicked out first round of Idols because he or she can’t keep key. Is it than morally wrong to download it first to see if it is any good and then decide to buy or not.
          The problem is that once you open the seal from a DVD or CD, you cannot return it to the store when it sucks.

          What about when I own the DVD from (example) James Bond, I bought it in belgium and it has the subtitles dutch german and french and I speak and read all of those, but my wife is russian and would like to see the subtitles in russian, is it morally right that I have to buy the DVD 2 times and 2 different DVD players (region) only for the subs?

          Just pointing out how ridiculous the Entertainment industry is set up….. it is indeed a big setup.

          So my answer on all above would be, yes it is morally very right to pirate content. it will make me buy more.

        • FakeElections

          Honestly, who cares if its morally right or not. Morales are just peoples opinions of what they think is “the right thing to do”

          Each person has a different set of ideas of whats morally right..

          So i think you asking for peoples opinions so that’s all you’ll get for answers..

          My opinion is that i don’t care if its right or not, i’ve got one life, i’m not going to  work for some shitty wage to then spend all my money on inflated priced dvd’s. That then have to be converted to mp4 so i can keep them on my computer. Its a waste of time and these people that call me a “thief” can go fuck themselfs because i don’t have to answer to them.. Who are they to tell me what to do.

        • Guest

           Most of the stuff I download is fan translated anime, which is typically a better quality translation, released faster than the official translations, assuming there ever is one.  At the end of the day the ‘pirated’ content is delivered faster, for free, and is better quality than the version I could potentially pay for, assuming that they will even shut up and take my money by releasing it in my country.

          The other major thing I download a lot of is audiobooks, where I probably would be willing to pay for them if they lowered the price point on them, most I see start at 40 dollars a book and go higher from there.  I try to support my favorite authors, and frequently own the books I’m downloading audio copies of, but I can’t afford to pay five or more times the price of a paper book for the audio version.

          I feel like if you want me to pay for something, I need to get some guarantee that it’s going to be a reasonably high quality version of it, and it needs to be a price I can afford to pay.  The argument I hear is that I should pay a lot of money for something that isn’t as good as what someone wants to give me for free,  because it’s moral for me to bend over and take what the content companies feel I deserve.  Fuck that.

      • ME

        This is true. I live in Latin America, so choices for movies, music, books, whatever cultural/art work you want are pretty limited. So I download everything, I am already paying to an ISP that charges in dollars, even though that’s NOT our national currency, and thanks to inflation, paying dollars is fucking ridiculous. So I’m not gonna get in Amazon or whatever site, purchase shit in bucks, pay the shipping, wait for MONTHS, fuck that. I think is great artists try to live on their work, but availability is not up to them, hell, most artists don’t even know they’re listened to in other places.

    • Duke

       Just a minor point, but it isn’t public property. It’s not any kind of property. It’s an idea (or the expression of one).

      • Sekhand

        True it is an idea, which becomes very hard to express in a way that incorporates its metaphysical nature. However some have found the term ‘intellectual property’ to adequately define some of this grey area. Still unsatisfactory though.

        • puddpuddi

          Is it morally wrong? Maybe.  The problem is, most people don’t feel bad downloading the avengers when they know the cast and crew already got paid, and the movie already made 600 million.  Maybe if half of that 600 million was going to the talent and not the studio, I’d have second guesses.

          As for music, I don’t listen to mainstream, so they are missing out on my money either way.  I support bands by going to their shows, which is where they make their real money.  I live in a city area, and we have a good music scene.  Most of these bands give their music away for free, so I buy a shirt for support.  If they sell a cd, I buy it and make an EAC rip and upload it to music sites.

          And honestly for me, it’s mostly about convenience.  I’m on a couple decent private trackers.  My rss feed downloads what I want while I’m at work.  Everything is so simple, and the entertainment industries have absolutely NO service that compares to a private torrent tracker.  I would pay $500 a year for mine if it were run legally by the studios. 

        • Anyone

          @ae0d62ae034f677a0c78c8b8abebc583:disqus
          furthermore while you can currently illegally download Avengers in DVD quality if you want to buy it you have to wait until September 25
          if you want to rent it on Netflix you have to wait until 2013

          so yeah, they clearly don’t want our money

    • Violated0

      Is it morally correct to download a movie when the makers say they do not want you too?

      For over a decade I have seen how major rights holders rewrite copyright law using technical means like content control and encryption. And for much of that time I have used my technical knowledge to help normal honourable people to regain their fair use rights.

      Let us also keep in mind that for the majority of years that Internet file sharing has taken off there was no lawful alternatives at all. These copyright people were really on the last boat out when they wanted to protect their established markets. Can you really blame fans for wanting to do fan stuff and to enjoy the latest media? It is also true to say that the MPAA/RIAA and their International version have already much corrupted the law, like with the copyright term lasting life plus 70 years, where now is our time to fight back.

      Why is it public property just because it is ‘art’?

      We are not claiming ownership to the media here (beyond improved public domain rights) when we are actually claiming ownership to the market. This is all about the time, place and device people use to enjoy this media and how they can transport and convert this media. The problem is for far too long and even now these media people have failed to serve the public demand. So instead the pirates stepped in and said look at this awesome stuff we can do and sure enough downloading provides their needs very quickly and efficiently.

      A good example of this fight is the MP3 when this is not a creation of the big media companies. Where is the encryption? Where is the content control? They of course did try with DRM but that quickly failed when people already had a better choice even if infringing. Then look at their gain when now people can bluetooth around their MP3s between their laptop, their cell phone and their MP3/4 player. They now have the ability to listen to their music anywhere they want and at any time and to enjoy this music with their friends and family.

      So all we are saying is that this is the market now. It is here now and it is not going away. These media owners with their art we simply say this is the market go and profit. Sure enough those people meeting the public needs do make good profit.

      What about the small indie band that wants to sell CD’s or Flash Drives at the gig, but everyone says they will rather go to the bay and download?

      We do often support Indie bands and they often support us. Keep in mind that this is moving the market away from big content where the Indie bands have flourished as a result now controlling about 53% of the entire music market. They often do not mind people sharing when it helps give them more fans. People do indeed pay if they like the media, Indie artists have also learned to merchandise with t-shirts, mugs and more to rebalance their income and many do indeed make good income.

      Look around when due to the freedom people now have content creation has boomed to levels never before seen it human history. You can see over much of the Internet people creating, sharing and enjoying with others.

      Kim Williams is simply a dinosaur pining for days long gone when they had everything locked up under their control and people could only view at different times on a fixed schedule. So people should just enjoy what they want to enjoy in anyway they want knowing that one day the media services and law will catch up to them. These are not bad people looking to steal but only friendly people looking to enjoy.

      • Sekhand

        I like what you say that the main thing is to respond to the demands of people who want to share or enjoy ideas and art in a free way.
         In fact one of the only good things about globalisation is the free flow of art and knowledge, not the corporate greed ironically represented by Kim Williams in his diatribe.

      • Nopaytroll

        This discussion should have occurred 10 years ago but you know what? you don’t talk to terrorists. There is no way to reason or negotiate anything with this type of people specially after they started blowing up your society your government and you justice system.. You kill them all instead. It is the only way we have and the only way we will take.

        • FakeElections

           You said it right there, “this discussion should have occurred 10 years ago” I saw and advert on a billboard yesterday advertising a new online TV service which claims to change the way you watch TV.. My point is i should have been seeing these businesses 10 years ago….

          Its too little too late, they’ve lost a lot customers for ever.

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      Morals are unrelated to the discussion. Your basic premise is flawed. Economics ! = morality.

      People have every right to try to get products at the lowest possible price, even if that price is free.

      If it is immoral to download as you claim, it is then equally immoral to artificially increase demand by limiting supply, as the industries have done for decades, so I’d call the moral quagmire that you suggest a draw.

    • Guest

      “But just a question, is it morally correct to download a movie when the makers say they do not want you too?”

      Well, it doesn’t hurt anyone or result in the loss of anything so I’d say it’s actually very hard to argue that it’s morally wrong. 

      A movie’s makers only ask people not to download it based on the false premise that it harms them. If I go against their wishes and download it anyway, but it doesn’t harm them, then have I done something morally questionable?  

      • Guest

        Thanks for putting my last paragraph in italics for no reason, Disqus. Best comment system ever!

    • Wallace

      “is it morally correct to download a movie when the makers say they do not want you too?”

      I’m up in the air about this, but I do know two things:

      - we are under no obligation to ASSUME they don’t want us to. It’s OK for a rightsholder’s rights to override free speech and private property rights, but they must at the bare minimum ask first. And don’t put that burden on the wires and hubs – the Internet can’t distinguish between authorized and unauthorized data.
      - Downloading a movie against a creator’s wishes, if wrong, is a minor, minor moral offense, less morally threatening than jaywalking. Creation does not confer ownership.

      “Why is it public property just because it is ‘art’?”

      It’s not. it’s PRIVATE property, so the owner has a greater say in what he or she does with it than someone who had a hand in making it, with exceptions. This is a debate about establishing new exceptions to a rule.

  • ahwront

    Kim Williams  ? never heard of him, so go back to the hole u came from sissie.

    Imagine ..is like a dream, only exists in ur head.

  • http://www.facebook.com/marianne.ibbotson Marianne Ibbotson

    Kim Williams, fuck you, you insensitive stupid cunt. As a disabled British woman, the riots (which were across the country, not just in London, you ignorant dick) made me fear for my safety, and essentially kept me housebound for weeks. I’d be jumping at every noise or shout I heard outside. People downloading torrents, on the other hand? Not something that causes me the slightest fear, or causes me to stay in my home for weeks for my own safety. But hey, why not go further in your insensitive bullshit? Why not say that downloading a TV show is morally equivalent to being a violent serial rapist? I’m *sure* all the victims of violent rape will be just *queuing* up to agree with you (sarcasm, since your alcohol-addled brain probably can’t tell).

    • Wombat

      I like how this post starts :) angry woman

  • BlurrTheTechnicolor

    He deserves a punch to the throat for comparing illegal downloads with the  London riots.
    He is a disgrace especially spewing the same old LIES as always about so-called Pirates.
    Someone better slap some sense into people like him. I´m so sick of hearing it over and over again the whole repetition of it doesnt make it the truth

    VIVA LA PIRATERIA

  • Flash

    “The scale of this theft makes the London riots of last year look like children stealing [candy] from a shop,” he said.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots#Deaths_and_injuries 
    So downloading movies is worse than murder, arson and shoplifting alltogether?!!! Allright brave new world!!!!!!!!! I mean…do you really need to comment what this insane guy said? Really? 

    • FakeElections

      The “London riots” as that even has now been coined is a total joke. It was mainly just young people stealing shit because they’d seen it ADVERTISED on the NEWS. Yet the News is in now way responsible.

      It should be renamed the “2012 London steal fest featuring a bunch of chavs”

  • tman

    Stupid and clueless. As an Aussie, what many readers around the world may not know is we get shafted every which way by big media. Not only do we have to wait up to six months for content we also get charged double than in the US, although $1 AUD is worth $1.05USD.
    He had a huge bitch about loosing $1.3billion in sales, well guess what? I’m taking my money and grey importing what I want into australia at better than US pricing from overseas and that includes shipping. Brick and mortar store sales are as dead as the crappy business model these dopey barstards are trying to shove down our throats.
    Don’t even get us started on software, hardware and bloody iTunes that also region prices us! Australian consumers are getting ripped off. These wankers have fleeced us for so long people aren’t paying AUD RRP anymore and are simply getting it from OS. That is the real story here! Thats here their $1.3billion in lost sales.

    • Sekhand

      But what about music and movies, you download those for free, and then what do the artists get out of that?

      • Importing is cheaper

         Actually he said importing. Nice job reading an internal monologue there.

      • Anyone

        that’s not my responsibility

        if they fail to sell something, why should they get any money?
        offer a better product and it will be bought

      • Danny

        The artists get fuck all either way.

      • cgimusic

        It is up to artists to work for companies that will do the best job of promoting their work. If an artist distributes their work as an indie without DRM or location restrictions I have a great deal of respect for them. On the other hand, if an artist thinks there is more money to be made in screwing over consumers then it is their problems if people decide to pirate rather than buy.

      • tman

         I don’t pirate music and movies. I buy legit content. Im trying to make the point that people buying/downloading legit content are getting fucked over and it has to do with regional pricing descriminations although somehow were suppose to have a free trade agreement withthe US. Sorry I’m not paying double for something I can get from the US at less than half the price I can get here. Kim is bitching that $1.37B in lost profit, well sorry there is a real reason for that and he isn’t saying what it really is, but that point was lost on you completely. Nice comprehension skills.

    • chronoss chiron

      and in canada its just not dvdrs and it stuff its everything we pay more then americans yet they are in debt and whine aobut us downloading well time we paid the same prices and maybe lower wedeserve it for that ten cent piece a plastic and go get 3dsmax , carrara , bryce 7 ( a free download ) and start making your own stuff to hell with them.

      • tman

         Mate I hear ya! Friggin free trade agreement my arse. We get shafted and they bitch and whine like no tomorrow.

  • Anyone

    because if piracy stopped everyone in the world suddenly has 65% more money to buy what they previously downloaded

    flawless logic

    • They’ll be rich!

       Think of it though, piracy vanishes and overnight the us debt gets paid off. Cause its x billion per year of proven lost sales.

      • Tom

        The money isn’t lost to the country though, if i download a movie then the $25 i don’t spend on it still gets spent on something else, the economy isn’t losing the money.

  • Wombat

    Bugger off you silly wombat is all I say

  • Heystoopidone

    News Limited is the Australian Arm of Rupert Murdoch media conglomerate empire. Rupert owns or directly controls 70% of Australia’s print media. 

    Kim Williams, upon ascending the throne sent this memo to all staff

    link: http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/02/17/memo-from-kim-williams-a-laser-like-focus-on-our-customer-needs/

    extract ” Our mission is to see the company prosper and thrive in that environment and to ensure it does so through adopting fresh and relevant approaches that are relevant to the needs of consumers and advertisers.”

    AFACT, the organization he quotes,as his source, has constantly been caught out fabricating, providing pure fiction and supplying misleading doctored evidence.

    The Murdoch Media down under in Oz , is not noted as a reliable news or political comment source. In addition, one it’s key players Andrew Bolt, is a serial convicted liar(libel).

    Such is life.   

    • Who

       Somewhere there’s a guy whose sole job is to whip these guys up into a rage with false stats about all the lost cash and harm and send them off to spew it all over. Wonder how much they pay him.

    • Jon7272

       well said my friend i wouldnt even run andrew bolt over with my car as i couldnt be bothered cleaning my car after

    • Hollywood Bigshot Wanker

       Ahaha.. a victim of the luvvie left who are watching their unelected PM die in a blaze of embarassment.

      Bolt is Australia’s number one blogger.. and Gillard and Labor will be in opposition for decades.

      Let me guess.. wamist??

  • Andrew me

    So his solution to a better business model is to keep doing the same thing and just call his customers thieves and say they should be locked up , great way to encourage people to buy your content.

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  • Nsmkklfm

    Gawd almighty.
    The retard is comparing broken windows to digital stuff.

    Your momma must be real proud of you, Kim.

  • Violated0

    “And to those who say they download because the legal alternatives just aren’t there, Williams said that he rejects that claim, but even if true it would amount to a poor defense”

    Actually it is a very good defence. If such a vast percentage of the population is doing it then you have three option.

    1. The law is wrong which is why so many oppose it. Governments do not like to admit mistakes of course.

    2. These honourable citizens have problems with access to legitimate media which is where Game of Thrones proved a popular example with it being proved that BT was their only choice.

    3. Vast parts of society are dishonest thieves but few beyond Kim Williams would say that Australia is a harbour for scum and villainy. You could even class the human species as doomed.

    So we blame 1 & 2, Governments blame 2 & 3, where people like Ken pick door number 3.

    At least he is right that numbers will grow in time but lets ask what will happen when the 50% majority line is reached and this is represented in political forums around the World? It is not hard to see that many law changes could then soon follow. This is why Governments now sit up and take notice when it is a hot political subject and where the Internet hosts this conflict.

    Anyway Ken Williams is one of Murdoch’s minions where a good rule in life is that whatever Rupert Murdoch wants to do the complete opposite. Follow that advice and all works out fine.

    • 1hhh1

       Alternatives are there,legal pay to view sites.Even my internet supplier offers me this service just choose a movie click to PAY and it downloads automatically,a few others too like Canal+ ect

      • Anyone

        not in every country
        and often with silly restrictions

        most of the times you would pay for an inferior product, noone in their right mind does that

        • Sekhand

          Ok so what you’re saying is that you know you are getting something that takes many hours of work and dedication for free, but because the business model art uses for renumeration is so cumbersome and shit in general, you are OK with it.

          It’s nice to get stuff for free though. Maybe the artists will get more exposure through ‘piracy’ then if everyone was forced to pay for their work.

        • Anyone

          @60ecd69c605c0817efd6e9d6046952be:disqus
          it doesn’t take many hours of dedication
          it takes a few minutes to download

          but yes, piracy is overall positive for the artist, it’s just negative for the middlemen screwing the artists and the customer alike
          for example Louis CK posted his latest standup recording on his website, without any restrictions or DRM for $5

          sure, it got downloaded for free by lots of people, but he made over $1 million in roughly 2 weeks

          offer a good product, don’t insult your fans as “scumbag” or “bandits”, and you will get money

        • Sekhand

          ummm, the many hours of work refers to the artist creating the media!!!!!

          I assume you respect Louis CK and his work Did he allow pwople to download his stuff for free? No, he asked you to pay for it. What respect are people showing for him and themselves then to go and download it without his permission. It is after all HIS OWN WORK.

          Just asking.

        • Anyone

          @60ecd69c605c0817efd6e9d6046952be:disqus
          sure, he asked people to pay for it, as is his right
          but he didn’t throw a hissy fit or threatened to throw people in jail or sued them for millions of $ when they downloaded it for free

          furthermore the show he was releasing was already mostly paid for with the tickets of the people that attended it, anything more was just a bonus (most of which he donated)

          personally, I neither paid for it nor did I download it for free
          while I like him on the occasional interviews on shows I watch I don’t watch his show and am not sure if I could stand a whole hour of him ;)
          he is just a great example of artists doing it right (currently he is starting a new tour where he sells the tickets exclusively through his website, therefore being able to offer it 50% cheaper because he doesn’t have to pay countless middlemen)

        • chronoss chiron

          ya all that sourceforge.net free downloadable software people put many hours into damn its sooo awful that people share there time and effort and where would apple be without the freebsd hackers…..in a toilet gates is making thats where

    • Danny

       ’whatever Rupert Murdoch wants, do the complete opposite’

      +1000000000000000

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      Techdirt had a great article yesterday comparing copyright as this generation’s prohibition. Seems like a perfect analogy to me. You can’t legislate laws that make the masses criminals, and you’ll go broke enforcing them.

    • chronoss chiron

      hahahahaha ohhh noooo were all doomed better download and enjoy shit then

  • 1hhh1

    Of-course,he right.Movie companies make a product to sell not give away for free.

    • Anyone

      but they don’t even try to sell it
      all I get when I want to buy it is “this content is not available in your region”

      if they don’t want my money I won’t give them my money

    • chronoss chiron

      thats why several movie theatres are almost out of business cause were going to movie theatres right?
      and its cause a dvdr at 60$ is able to sell right?40$ 30$ for a 10 cent piece a plastic come on 

  • Guest

    I want to kick the crap out of this guy

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  • Peasant O’ CouncilHouse

    Just a working class cocksucker trying to play a blue blood game.
    We all know the riots were about encryption, whispers and facebook.
    Not corruption, class wars and oppression.
    This is the same.
    The day I’m morally subservient to this cunt and his ilk will never come.
    I will murder before I’m crushed

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      Already jumping to the 4th box? Viva la revolution!

  • :/

    Seems like the idiocy that is Hollywood, USA has infected Australia too.

  • YarickZan

    If the numbers of this “scumbag” crime are so high, then there is a problem. If so much is consumed illegally, then it stands to reason that people aren’t getting what they want legally in an easily accessed, easily used, pretty much DRM free way. In this day and age of instant information having a business model as old, plodding, and ineffective as they have is pretty much economic suicide. This is an age of instant gratification, instant communication, and they need to get with the times or go the way of the dinosaurs.

  • C Oppenheim

    He suggests Shakespeare and Dickens would have suffered from pirates and then would not have produced anything more.  Well, there was NO copyright law in Shakespeare’s time,  and in Dickens’ time there was no protection for his works in the USA.  Both of them were constantly ripped off, but still kept producing.  So his basic thesis is simply wrong.  And his analogy with the London riots is pathetic.

  • Baba

    Sounds like a clueless idiot that has swallowed up every phoney study that has ever been made. 

    Just look, 70% reduction in downloading with isp warnings… because france has had a 70% reduction since it started doing that right???

    • MattVRX

      To be fair, there probably IS a 70% reduction in downloading.
      For the next 2 or 3 days before that person switches ISPs.

      This is why no ISP in a country that doesn’t require it is stupid enough to do it.

  • Anonymous

    the man is obviously as thick as fuck and will come out with whatever bullshit lies and excuses he can dream up to put the blame on anyone else shoulders rather than face up to the truth, that he, his business and the rest of the entertainment industries need to adapt, to change. they know the way to overcome the problem but it involves using a modicum of intelligence, something which is either impossible for them or because they cant stand having to admit that what they have been doing up til now, just to try to keep control of their failing business model, doesn’t and never will work! as for calling anyone ‘scumbags and thieves’, he would do well to look a damn sight closer to home than he is at the moment. that also is known to him but yet again it is easier to try to blame everyone else rather than to admit to being a megalomaniac that just wont listen!

  • Email

    Dudes, wtf? if we were to pay for all the stuff we download it will be tens of thousands of dollars or more for each of us, just explain to me were can u download legally a 10 GB or more collection of MP3′s ? Secondly, artists have never been richer, they make their money from advertising and concerts etc.

    • chronoss chiron

      and then the new super duper purple ray player comes out and you have to pay tens of thousands all over again and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again
       and again and again and again and again and again

      • Kadronline

        You don’t have to at all. You only pay if you want to upgrade to the new format.

        • Anyone

          why should you pay for the upgrade if the new format is available for free?

        • Kadronline

          In what sense would the ‘format’ be free?

        • Anyone

          @4ea59d857bbac524c94a278706e6a51d:disqus
          in the sense that I can download it from thepiratebay

        • Kadronline

          In that case you just invalidated the OP’s statement here that “you have to pay tens of thousands all over again”.

          And the answer is: You pay to be fair to those that created the product you enjoy – a mutually-beneficial arrangement where each side benefits, versus one where you take and they lose until they quit and you lose too.

  • BIG MICO

    Avatar – one of the biggest $$$ making movies of all time in a time where downloads are at its peak…

    Moral of story? PEOPLE WILL STILL $$$ TO SEE GOOD MOVIES…!

    • FTFY

      C’mon, we’re talking about Avatar here:

      PEOPLE WILL STILL $$$ TO SEE SHIT MOVIES…!

  • Danny

    Way to charm the crap out of your customers!

  • Haha

    actually he really was conservative in his figures. In truth around 1billion an hour is lost due to pirate fat cats sailing around in ships, and that’s just in Australia alone. It’s scientifically proven beyond a doubt that without piracy of films the world economy would immediately improve. Global standards of living would rise, violent crime would drop. Man who knew.

  • Jimbo

    if he were so worried about illegal downloading worsening, he would do something to give more legal alternatives. that is something that the public has been asking for for years but none of the entertainment industries have supplied what has been asked for, only supplying what they want. listening to customers is the way a business moves forward. giving what is asked for, all ‘under one roof’, without charging stupid money is the way forward. trouble with that is it is too obvious and sensible for the industries to do. they prefer to sue as many customers as possible and ultimately run the business into the ground

  • Sean

    The problem with Australia – Its full of Australians.

    • downunder

       yeah all those hot blondes baking on the sandy beaches

      nothing wrong with that..

      sadly it lucked out badly when they got a red croc
      slide into power of the gov there
      who would sell the country to the rich americans
      so she gets what she wants

      i recall the great show called HUNGRY BEAST which
      was cancelled.. if never seen it grab it and watch
      it pokes fun in each episode at the rich and powerful
      and exposes the greed and lies as well.. so no wonder
      a great show like that was axed.. but theres one episode
      they expose this new Prime ministers corruption in
      funding catholic schools so all have a priest in them
      when they have counselors for that anyhow.. complate
      waste of money.. cos shes a catholic?

      but going back to that statement thats like saying america is bad cos its full of americans or should we say.. gypsies and italians and irish

      remember theres always some bad in every country dont mean they are all bad

  • Anonymous

    A decade of angry ranting and ever-increasing legal enforcement has not stopped piracy, and may have actually made it more prevalent and resilient.

    But by all means, Mr. Williams, keep ranting and demanding more legal enforcement. We’ll be over here, laughing at the bellowing dinosaur as it sinks into the tar.

  • theonlyone

     Kim Williams is just another glaring example of a failure of the copyright industry and organizations like the MAFFIA to recognize that their business model is outdated and a change in their marketing and sales of content is needed to catch up with the times.

  • downunder

    is the the guy that gets 3 million a year in salary.. no one is worth that
    in this world.(not even actors that demand that per episode for 5min of acting in it!). I dont care what they think they are..they arent better then the rest of us. they always want more to fill their greedy butts

    obviously this CEO still dont get how to stamp out illegal downloading is by providing an alternative thats affordable world wide without limits so people can watch and support their fav tv shows as many dont want to break the so called law watch a show

  • MonkeysaysMonkeydoes

    As much as I hate pirates (those guys keeping stealing ships and kidnapping people for randsom) , I have to say Kim Williams, CEO of News Limited, is an employee of Rupert Murdoch

    The same Rupert Murdoch that’s been involved in plenty of scandals lately (that though so fortunately seem to be punished it a slap on the wrist or just fade into oblivion)

    And really dowloading a string of binary code from that net is like London riot (surely Kim Williams never in is life been in a riot situation) them why so worried about dowloads the stores are burning and virtual people are getting molested go Kim Williaws put your super copyright hero suit and run

    • chronoss chiron

      you hate us why, because i am in fact a preserver of culture and knowledge you wish to control and profit from? That you make the world a worse place to stop sharing of said culture and knowledge? DO you for one second think mans future will depend on knowledge and culture OR from you ability to control it and what happens as its starting to slow the development of the human race. WHAT if your actions doom us? DO you in your sportscar give a fraking real shit what your really doing. YOUR worse then some drug addicts….your addiction is wealth and power. YOU better hope there is no god and heaven cause your satan.

  • downunder

    the guys got a Girls name (KIM) what a panzy too

    his parents must of been idiots naming him KIM

    • chronoss chiron

      kim dotcom? is that you

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

       i suppose you will now take the piss out of Kim dotcom now then?

      • chronoss chiron

        i wouldn’t he aint a small lad

      • downunder

         yep its a girls name.. guys that have it normally spell it Kym but its still a girls name.. in my books.. known many girls called kim but no guys. some asians have it as a last name but thats different.. it does mean gold and hero to them.

        kim dot com not sure if thats his initials or abbrev though

        but if not he should change it to TIM dot com :)

        Thrash International Media – TIM

  • Ninetynine

    I don’t understand how it is they arrived at only 65%…

  • Guest

    pff.. eF you CEO of the richland.. where you eat gold and fly on the pony, wake up of your cocaine dream already!

  • http://profiles.google.com/orfetheo Orfeas Theofanis

    “Your honour, I did smash that window, and I did steal that piece of jewelry, because the shop was shut, and anyway they were asking too much for it,”
    Because downloading a film is like breaking a window (which costs 1000$+) and stealing jewellery (1000$+).
    I basically cost the studios 2000$ every time i download.
    Wow! How aren’t they bankrupt yet?

    • Anyone

      you clearly aren’t downloading enough

    • chronoss chiron

      they are getting there and its cause we arent going to movie theatres any more

      • Guest

        Though I’d say that’s more due to crappy movies in general (and Michael Bay in particular) than to downloading movies.  

        It’s been a long, long time since I’ve seen a movie that would justify taking up space on my hard drive.  

    • chronoss chiron

      and i have a hammer and someone once used a hammer to pound someone to death lets require every use of a hammer ot be regulated and watched so we never have that happen and see how few of you humans can buy houses…..

      applying copyright as it is now to all other things makes capitalism die a quick death…don’t kid yur self HOLLYWOOD IS COMMUNIST

    • Strawbear

      It’s weird how they never actually show these losses they make, only talk about them.

      All you ever really hear is how so & so is the best selling movie ever. You never get them detailing how in debt they are.

      Weird huh?

  • chronoss chiron

    aww the poor lawyer cant get more cash for another yacht POOR baby , me thinks he needs to see a shrink for anger issues lest he go postal and cut people into little parts like ohhhhh someone did and sent them to political parties in canada supporting lawyers like YOU….

    a few more chopped up severed heads of actors and lawyers might actually send the right message.

  • Lethn

    How exactly can you steal something that doesn’t exist in reality?

    • Kadronline

      But it does exist in reality.

      • Wallace

        Yeah, but you know what he means. An even better question is, how can you smash a shop window that doesn’t exist in reality?

        • Kadronline

          But it does exist in reality.

          I think you’re both confusing physical form versus existence.

    • Dirty_Bear

      How can walking away from a barber without paying be considered stealing?

      • Anyone

        in that case the barber actually provided a service

        if I download something from thepiratebay the MAFIAA had no part in it

        • Dirty_Bear

          Your initial comment didn’t have anything to do with the MAFIAA. Regardless of whether it is a service or not payment is still required unless stated otherwise.  

        • Anyone

          you are confusing me with someone

        • Dirty_Bear

          Regardless, it still applies to you.

        • Elycrxrq

          And the mafiaa never gave you a haircut either.

          LMAO

        • Dirty_Bear

          Wow, Torrent Freak deleted my post. Who would have thought. Anyway what does this have the MAFIAA? The statement made by Lethn was about “something that doesn’t exist in reality” and a service is just that an intangible. Your statement is invalid.

      • Nopaytroll

        Don’t bother corporate pay troll we know who you are and what you are doing so keep your fake opinion for yourself You are fooling no one.  And don’t bother changing  your name. we will still spot you.

    • chronoss chiron

      its a um er all in my er um ahhh mind (winks)

    • The_Bear

      “in that case the barber actually provided a service

      if I download something from thepiratebay the MAFIAA had no part in it”

      This has nothing to do with the MAFIAA and this was about an intagible (something that doesn’t exist in reality) that is precisely what a service is. Keep on deleting “PropagandaFreak” and I’ll keep on posting. 

      • Anyone

        true
        if there is a service and they ask you to pay for it, you should pay for it

        luckily TPB doesn’t ask me to pay for their service, so I don’t feel guilty

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  • Water is cool

    Ignorant twit!

    How the hell can one compare stealing (London Riots) to downloading a digital file? -_-

    • Kadronline

      He’s talking about the free-for-all nature of the act and calculated costs to honest businesses.

      • Anyone

        “honest businesses” don’t exist
        and piracy is not costing anyone anything

        • Kadronline

          So all business is unfair?

        • Anyone

          @4ea59d857bbac524c94a278706e6a51d:disqus
          yes
          the bigger the business, the bigger the asshole running it

        • Kadronline

          Nobody’s forcing you to do business.  You do business because you want something they have.  They set the price, you decide if you’re prepared to pay it.  Where’s the dishonesty there?

        • Anyone

          @4ea59d857bbac524c94a278706e6a51d:disqus 
          and if I’m not happy with that price or the goods offered I go somewhere else where I get a better product for a better price

          if the other business wants me back they better offer a good product and don’t insult me as “scumbag” and “bandit”

        • Kadronline

          Yes, that is true, but in doing so you deprive the people that worked to create the product you desired of fair recompense for their effort.  If enough people do that then continuation of production of what you desire becomes unsustainable and you soon find yourself left with nothing.  Both sides lose.

          You’re the one engaged in dishonest business here by not being fair towards the other party who worked to give you what you want.  You’re just taking without giving anything in return.

          Do you hit-and-run in BitTorrent swarms too?

          Ever been broken into and had your gear taken?  What would you think about the people who did that?  Do you think it would be reasonable call them scumbags?  Would that be fair?

      • Nopaytroll

        Did I told you to stop trolling?

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  • Bustedgutt

     “Imagine the great works that are not being produced because the digital
    bandits are creating virtual pirate Globe Theaters and virtual literary
    magazines and making off with possibly 65 per cent of the profits,”
    Williams said.

    So, is he saying, we bandits should compensate them for the future theft of works that haven’t even been produced/invented yet ?

    We asked, and they came up with their new business model !!!

  • Hogspace

    What this dickhead Williams fails to realise is that when I buy a product it’s MINE. I’ll do with it as I wish. If I want to share it, that’s my prerogative. It’s been happening since tape recorders and VHS players. Indeed some people were able to copy their vinyl.
    What the artists and producers need to wake up and recognise is that because of interference in my internet useage and their rhetoric my purchases of music, film and cinema going have gone from around £50/month to ZERO. Yes folks, I refuse to even pay for the cinema. Refuse to buy CD’s or DVD’s.  Many people already do the same.  The more people who join up, the more people who shout it out, the better.  Maybe the message will get home. 

  • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

     http://www.facebook.com/newsspace  < only seemingly way to send a message to them via FB's message service

  • John Space

    He mad?

    Because if he mad, his story sounds less plausible.

  • Kenl8888

    I have tried buying original blu-ray discs from Amazon; however these being targeted for the US market, don’t even have Chinese subtitles (Yes I am a Chinese living in South East Asia) Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind freezes on my BD player due to copyright and regional encryption; so MR KIM can you help me on this ??

  • TongReee

    lol, I give him a huge Middle Finger Salute! Boo yah!

    Private-IP.tk

  • YOU FAILED

    It should be ILLEGAL to make products that can be so easily copied/cammed/ripped. It is you in the media industry who are FAILING in coding & implementing proper protections. So instead you are going after the users – IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, and NOT THE USERS. Laws should be made to protect the civilians, and not some greedy moneyloving corporations !!

    • Anyone

      DRM doesn’t work

      the internet is built on copying bytes, you can’t stop that

  • Guest

    Only 65% illegally through bittorrent? and only $1.37 billion lost? Hollywood is disappoint.

  • Gear Mentation

    Sigh.  Illegal just doesn’t carry the sting it once did.  I just barely remember the days when it was still expected that politicians were respectable people, and that you had “company loyalty,” and people actually believed it was not just their loyalty to the company… They believed that the company had loyalty to them as well.  I lived through that transformation.  This is the world that the corporations created, where people no longer respect the laws which the corporations made, and no longer believe that corporations are there for the good of the people.  If it isn’t all cream and peaches for them well too fucking bad.

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  • Guest

    pots and kettles lol

    • Guest

      yeah especially that the UK transported its criminals to Australia in the 1700′s and to whence the people of Australia descends from criminals lol

  • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

    This guy took it up a notch.  Most file sharers *are* scumbags, though, and total idiots.  I’ve talked to a lot of them right here at TF. 

    • Anyone

      the idiots here are MAFIAA trolls

      • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

        I wish I was a Mafiia troll – id be making a lot more money, that’s for sure!

        • Ivo Liondov

          Someone here sounds sour. No proper jobs anymore?

        • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

          I guess not, otherwise dickhead pirates wouldn’t have to steal everything.

        • Monster

           I have a great job & a great salary. I could buy all the garbage that comes out no problem.  Here’s the problem though…99% of it is total garbage and I’m not going to spend my hard earned money on it. I’m not stupid. I might as well light the cash on fire. lol

        • http://modmyi.com/forums/iphone-4-new-skins-themes-launches/740147-neurotech-hd.html#post5637502 Jay

          That makes sense – I know what it’s like to pinch pennies. What if you liked the movie? Would you pay to own the blu-ray or whatever?

        • Anyone

          @Kunu:disqus
          not if it is from one of the MPAA studios
          they use that money to ruin the lives of countless people, it cannot be justified to give them money

    • Elycrxrq

       ’cause now TF comes with full voice hahaha

      Share some of what you’re smoking buddy, it’s obviously good enough to hear written words LOL

    • Guest

      Maybe they act like scumbags towards you because you keep trolling them with shit like this.

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  • GUEST

    Another Fat Cat CEO. Him and Chris Dodd are in bed together. 

  • Guest

    This comparison is sick, the London riots were caused by the failing system and pure rage at law enforcement. Police killed an unarmed man then proceeded to frame him later they were busted in an inquest for falsifying evidence.

    I think the abuse of the system by the media industry and law enforcement is the similarity here.

  • John Spartan

    How can there be copyright in an age where there was none?
    (Dickens and Shakespeare)

  • SethoftheSea

    calling a 1/3 of the population of Australia scumbags is a really good way to get the consumers to buy and use your services Mr Williams….

  • Guest

    Kim Williams is a parasite who don’t deserve life.

  • chronoss chiron

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_economy
    now what does hollywood account for in this and they are crying?
    Population7 billion (2011)[1]GDPNominal: US$61.96 trillion (2010 est.)[2]PPP: US$74.00 trillion (2010 est.)[2]GDP growthPer capita (PPP): -0.8% (2009 est.)GDP per capitaNominal: US$7,178PPP: US$10,500Millionaires(US$)~10 million i.e. ~0.15% (2009)Unemployment30% combined unemployment and underemployment in many non-industrialized countries. Developed countries typically 4-12% unemployment.Billionaires(US$)1,011 (2010)[3]People paid below US$2 per dayNOW lets think about this. THIS COCKSUCKING faggit rich prick is crying about getting more then he has when almost half the world works at less then 2$ a dayand all that apple tech and dvdrs and cdrs that made them rich well they used those poor folks to do it.HERES A FUCK YOU FROMME PresidentChairperson andTreasurer ofTHE FUCKING LARGEST GROUP A HACKERS ON EARTH

  • Just Curious

    Australia rarely produces anything worth watching anyway. Most of what they watch there on TV and in the theatres is American… but then I guess that’s true of everywhere. 

  • Ali3nx

    Dear Mr. CEO,

    Cool story bro. Excuse me while i do download this tv show.

    Sincerely,

    Evolution

  • Fulun

    And here is US’s new puppet! Mr. Williams, I have a surprise for you, our virtual world of piracy is way bigger than your small brain can fathom, and there isn’t sh*t you can do about it. Stuff aren’t being produced because of piracy? Well, guess what? Nobody cares, those crap were most probably not even worth being pirated, let alone bought. Maybe you should start worrying about more important issues, for example, global warming, which is little by little sending the little island you live on under the water!

    P.S. WTH is wrong with aussies these days? First that Adult King idiot and his stupid campaign which is now even being challenged by his own co-workers in GFY and now this fagg*t; why don’t the aussie people get their things together and throw these good-for-nothings in the ocean?

  • Demonoid2012

    “Your honour, I did smash that window, and I did steal that piece of jewelry, because the shop was shut, and anyway they were asking too much for it,” Williams quipped.

    What the hell does sitting in your cute underwear, at the PC, randomly downloading content that you probably never knew existed in the first place, has to do with smashing Windows and stealing jewery? (Okay, I don’t really like Windows 7 but still)

    Perhaps the quote should go something like this: Your honour, I did randomly download that content while some theives smashed the company windows and stole all of their equipment, and, anyway, they were asking for it, because they were too busy fucking with me about some corny-ass music/movies that I randomly decided to check out, and definitely wasn’t planning on buying, in the first place.

  • huh

    Good ole News Corp.  Lying cheating and stealing is the way they do business.  Pot meet kettle.

  • Mr Roberts

    “‘My response is an unequivocal -‘Take him down constable’,” he said”
    My response is – It’s been 12 years of hearing this now Kim. I now have a seedbox, media servers and a fully setup HTPC – its going to be very hard to bring me back now. A lot harder than it would’ve been 10 years ago, if only you had have innovated instead of going down the track you did. Its not too late, sweep me off my feet with a fantastic legal alternative and you might win me back. Or you can keep doing whatever it is you think you’re doing now, you baffoon. You hear that Kim? That’s the sound of decades passing you by.

  • anon

    Cranky old man Kim Williams needs a nap.

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  • the_Don_Juggalo

    Um…seriously? What an idiot! Most of my downloading is replacing vinyl/cassettes/cds that I used to have, may have been ruined, and are not available anywhere anymore anyway! The others are stuff I download early and BUY ANYWAY when I want to support the artist. Yeah…I do download some stuff I didn’t have, but I wasn’t going to buy it anyway! Besides, if I download some new stuff I didn’t know about, I probably end up going to the concert or otherwise supporting the artist.

    But seriously…pressing computer keys to share something someone bought anyway is like breaking and entering? What an idiot!

    P.S. I didn’t address movies. Movies make millions of dollars and they can afford to pay actors (what do they add to the world?) millions of dollars for um…ACTING. Last I heard movie stars are not worried about where their next meals are coming from. If the key grips, gaffers, and others are ‘starving’ then get a real job. I bet people working at McDonalds, as janitors, and other jobs would LOVE to be in the movie business. Most people who are REALLY hurting for money can’t make commercials about how they’re being robbed. Seriously?!?!?

  • truther

     third of all Australians are scumbags that he makes his money off of. He is a damn idiot for calling all those people scumbags

  • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

    This kind of ludicrous, spoilt-little-Mummy’s-boy hysteria is a sure sign of rising, uncontrolled panic. This creep has had his toys taken away and is screaming like a baby with a wet nappy and no dummy. We should be laughing at the buffoon, not trying to explain him. His world is crumbling as he screeches, and no amount of MAFIAA thuggery will ever bring it back.

    When a supposedly intelligent CEO of a major company rants that downloading a crappy movie is worse than multiple murder, widespread arson, wholesale destruction of ordinary folk’s lives, and a terrifying breakdown of social order, we really have to wonder what his criminal bosses have been making him smoke.

    We should be cheering really. Such crazed ramblings are a sure sign that the MAFIAA has lost, and knows it. I have said elsewhere that this is a guerilla war waged by the Media Bosses against the people, and those cretins have failed catastrophically to understand the first rule of guerilla war – unless you win the hearts and minds of the people, you will lose.

  • Wallace

    ““Your honour, I did smash that window, and I did steal that piece of
    jewelry, because the shop was shut, and anyway they were asking too much
    for it’”

    Not every middle-aged person is going to understand the Internet. I get that. But how can you possibly get a shut shop confused with something not being for sale at all?

    Is this CEO really thinking of his entire out-of-print catalog as being merely a shut shop? If so, why is he still employed?

  • Strawbear

    A news corp company has the unbelievable cheek to criticize the legality of other people’s actions?!

    I’ll stop laughing sometime next year.

  • Internet

    Kim……….Suck My Dick!!!

  • Anonymous

    Translation of this:
    “Piracy is making it difficult for me to afford my yacht and multiple homes in foreign countries.  Pirating needs to stop so I can maintain my extravagant life style.”

  • I’m Batman

    ‘Scumbags’ ALL(!!!)  Quite right.

    Now . . . tell us, again, about your Tax Shelters and secret Swiss Bank accounts, Kim Williams . . .

  • Andrew Lee

    ROFL 1.37 billion and The Pirate Bay is equivalent to Hitler. You know what I say about that claim? BULL FUCKING SHIT

  • PRIVACY is priceless to me

    He’s a fucking worse than nazi scumbag who thinks he can own anything including what people should “think”.
    The only theft that matters is the one committed by the USELESS media industry in its only one century of existence, not that IT industry is any better btw.

    So Mr inbred aussie Big Shit, do humanity a favor and follow Tony Scott in suicide!

    PROPERTY IS THEFT, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS MASS MURDER!

  • tonyj

    Jeeze Mr. Williams, you don’t have to be so snippy. I’ll just wait till the digital content gets the Public Library.

  • TerribleTony

    Clearly they are getting desperate, why else would they be spreading the same old straw-man arguments that have been demolished many times over?

    • Anyone

      because people still believe them despite the facts

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003037095323 Jerilyn Nighy

    How do you steal a scumbag?

  • Roman

    “Yes, your honor. I did stand next to the jewellery shop. I did copy this beautiful ring using my matter cloning device. That’s right, I didn’t pay him, because he was asking too much to let me copy it. He still has the ring though, and I did NOT break any windows.”

  • Mr A Scumbag

    Hypocrite!

    “Earlier this year News Limited was mired in a copyright controversy of its own when the company was accused of pay TV piracy, claims that were vigorously denied by Williams.”

    BS = read up what this upstanding citizen gets up to:

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/pay-tv-piracy-hits-murdoch-20120328-1vxfw.html

  • MattVRX

    What’s that bullshit about people not going to the movies because of piracy?

    Does the idiot think me and my mates are content to sit at home and watch a bad cam copy of a movie with microwave popcorn?
    No, we go out to the movies and have a good night. We know the popcorn is nothing but profit, but we don’t care. Piracy in NO way damages movie sales – the dipshit companies that impose RIDICULOUS restrictions on the movie theaters are. Did you know the only way the theaters stay in business is because of that popcorn? They make maybe 50 cents off a ticket sale because of the cunts like fox who demand 99% of the ticket profits.

    I would also like to point out how me pirating all of those blu-ray movies has taken away exactly no money from anybody. Because my bitch ass doesn’t have enough money to buy those blu-rays anyway. If i couldn’t pirate them, i would never buy them in the first place.

  • JoeBidenSucksdik

    Kim Williams, Fuck you. Let me guess just because you and your company can’t make your profits quota, your company is going to pursue legislation to shit on internet freedoms. That is the trend now isn’t it?

  • Neotoasty

    Says the bastard who is in support of the MAFIAA acting like sactioned mobsters who think they can’t be touched.

  • womble71

    If my isp threatened my connection i would cut of all services to internet and phone from that same provider. we are the ones who pay for a service and we call the shots, if the music and movie industry don’t want piracy they should go out of business! Either offer a less expensive and better quality product or shut up!!

  • anon

    isn’t that 65% a majority voting against copyright laws? ;)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CH76QIKXYIFA2FZ2DXC6NUZ24A Andrei

    This guy might be right. Internet piracy could be the equivalent of smashing a window and taking it if after the smashing and the taking the owner of the window still has the same window up and functional and is still able to do whatever he wants with it (from cleaning it to selling it).

  • scottiwi

    What a maroon. I don’t download because the shop is shut.  I download because there isn’t any frakking shop in the first place!

  • red

    I fail to understand how choosing to download an episode of a broadcast
    television show to watch it – instead of streaming it at Hulu, or using
    TiVo, or VHS, or whatever – magically makes it illegal somehow.  Was it not
    just on the free TV for free?  Yes.  Yes, it was.  What difference does
    it make how I watch it later?  None, really.  I’m not trying to “steal”
    their shit.  I’m trying to watch their stupid show.  If it doesn’t
    suck, I may actually buy it.  You know… if it ever comes out for
    purchase.  Duh.  Makes me  think they’re still mad they never found a way to track
    at-home VHS recordings.  Hey, guys.  Not everyone is a criminal or trying to screw you over.  Stop being paranoid.

    Once upon a time, radio stations used to do this thing where they played more than the
    same 3 songs or artists all day.  It was amazing.  Occasionally, the DJs would even play
    an entire album and frequently throw out the ‘if you think
    this album rocks, maybe you should go and buy it’.  Incredible, how well
    that worked.  Maybe some of these asshats should pause and realize how
    they screwed not only themselves, but the artists who produce the goods
    that make them money, by getting all prissy with the radio.  Maybe they
    could take some cues from the bands who run their own webpages, who list
    their own songs to listen to for free on said pages, and see how it
    affects their sales.  When people know what they’re buying, they’re more
    likely to buy it.  People don’t buy visual art they’ve never seen… Why
    would they buy music they’ve never heard?

    As an aside – exactly how many times will I be expected to pay for a
    digital track (which I have already purchased in three other formats) so I can have it on more than one device?  I’m just wondering,
    because I’m pretty sure all my CDs, vinyls, tapes, and 8tracks work with
    any player that can play the particular format.  So… they need to figure this out already, because I know a lot of people not buying music *at all* because of this.

    While I’m at it…
    I’m sick of hearing anyone whine about how someone is
    “stealing” anything public domain.  You can’t “steal” public domain
    material.  FFS, buy a dictionary/legal guide/whateveryouneedto and learn the
    meaning of the damn words already.  Don’t send me a letter because I
    downloaded “Shock”.  That’s just stupid.  Also, stop
    removing/censoring/whatever things the right-holder has posted THEMSELVES and EXPLICITLY said they *want*
    SHARED for free! for everyone!  That includes you, Google Video.  If
    it’s THEIR property and THEY want to share it with the whole flippin’
    world for free that is THEIR prerogative.  Not yours, buddy.  So, stop.  Just stop it.

    Seems to me, a great part of this issue revolves around format and
    intention.  Not everyone is a frickin’ criminal.  People shared books, music, movies, art and whatever else long before the
    internet existed… and long before digital copies.  Were they all “stealing”?  There are families who have entire libraries of books, purchased only once, yet generations have read these same books.  Is that “stealing”?  If so, what would be the point of bothering to have a family library?  What would be the point of purchasing anything you only have use for once and can’t share with anyone ever?  I don’t buy new socks every day, and most cars seat more than one person.  So…

    If they want to send the FBI to my house to give me crap for downloading books I have
    already purchased in printed format because I’m too poor/sick/lazy/whatever to scan
    them myself and call it “theft”?  They can go right ahead and do that.  They can waste all that time and resource on my horrific criminal activities. 
    Clearly, I’m a monster.  I hope they bother to look at how much of my library is out of print/isn’t
    even protected anymore (if it ever was) items before they waste the effort.  Also, I’m pretty sure I can post my own works to whatever site accepts them and share them with anyone I please… and I’m pretty sure that works the other way, too.  So, Please.  Come arrest me for uploading my own personal things to share with others or download things like my best friends poetry, Ubuntu, or Firefox via torrentyoudon’tlike.  I’m sure it’ll make great news.

    Seriously, I hope they realize that all
    they really accomplish by doing things like this is the
    opposite of what they want. They don’t actually have any less control over their property than they did before.  Perspective.  They need some.  They’re never going to be able to stop
    people from sharing.  They really need to update their ideas of what
    they consider “theft”.  The format has changed.  That’s it.  Much of
    this so-called “problem” would be easily solved if they would simply
    understand the difference and adjust accordingly.  It would also help if they’d stop trying so hard to protect things that aren’t even theirs to begin with.
     

  • ManBush

    LOL – Also popular downloads are movies like the Transformers and Madonna, so it’s like breaking into someone’s house, going into their bathroom and stealing human shit from their fucking toilet. Fuck the entertainment industry, start putting out a product worth paying for. I saw a DL of paranormal activity, that was sold as a movie, if I saw that shit in the theater I would have demanded my money back within 15 minutes, I donate and support artists not shit.

  • Guest

     i love how you faggots cry when someone tells the truth that you’re all thieves.

  • DrMarijuana

    That phat cat rich prick is upset that he is losing millions, hes already a fucken billionare, i pirate because i cant afford some of the media and games i would like to have, i eat roman noodles for dinner and he eats fucken 1,000$ stakes, i think he can live

  • Mandar0106

    I just watched the movie australian movie,deleted it ,now starting download it again.
    “Fuck You Mate”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Morgan-Hardingham/100003531082002 David Morgan Hardingham

    The is a war Plain and simple and started when we were denyed the ability of backing up what we bought and we were made criminal  when we had to hacks a disk to do what should be and was a legal right to be able to back up. as I no longer buy software I can not back up or recover free on the web

  • Phattex

    Sky TV part of New Corporation has systematically outbid Free to Air TV for major sports broadcasting. But then instead of keeping a tight ship and ensuring that none of their transmissions is broadcast by themselves or their customers over the interntet, they actuially allow eastern European countries who stream tv to computers to buy ans distribuye their streams. Once on the net it is public property. Tough!

  • Error

    Radiohead, Charles Eisenstein, Maudlin of the Well.

    Three examples where creators allowed people to pay whatever they wanted for their product and they seem to be doing fine. 

    I’ve noticed that a lot of this whining and moaning over “internet piracy” is coming from companies that control the distribution of said products, and not the creators themselves.

    Middlemen reaping the majority of profits off media damages the creative process. Instead of artists and art trying to put itself out there and attract an audience these companies controlling distribution call in focus groups and attempt to manufacture things that will merely be popular, all originality and creativity be damned. 

  • Torr4VP

    I don’t get the issue?!?
    It’s “file SHARING”!!!
    Anyone can share whatever they want of their own property.
    Most of us who went to pre-school and kindergarten (and in some of the better parented families) were taught to share.
    I have shared my clothes (not giving MORE money to Gucci!), my laptops (no more money for Toshiba, Dell, HP), my videos and CD’s (ya, same thing), my home (does the developer, architect, plumber get a cut of that?), my body (uh, would my parents deserve a cut)?

  • http://akemi-mokoto.me/ Akemi Mokoto

    I agree with this man. I want to buy him a beer.

  • Marty1971

    I’ve got one thing to say Australia you’re so full of shit

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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