TorrentFreak

The place where breaking news, BitTorrent and copyright collide

Senior Judge Warns of End To File-Sharing Cash Demands

A senior judge has given the clearest indications so far that patience could be running out with “pay up or else” letters currently being sent out in their thousands to alleged file-sharers. At a hearing to authorize yet more, the judge called the schemes “a huge sledgehammer to crack a nut” adding that once the Digital Economy Act is in force, further applications may not be successful.

After tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of letters sent out to alleged file-sharers demanding cash settlements, there are some early signs that the practice is starting to grind gears in the UK.

On Monday, lawyers Gallant Macmillan were in court on behalf of their client Ministry of Sound, a huge independent music label, to extract yet more identities of alleged file-sharers from UK ISPs.

The hearing, Ministry of Sound Recordings Ltd v Plusnet Plc, went ahead at 2:30pm in London before judge Chief Master Winegarten (CMW). Other ISPs detailed were BT, Sky and O2/Be Unlimited.

Among those who have been tirelessly campaigning against these actions, it’s long been hoped that CMW, a senior high court judge with a wealth of experience in this area, would take a more critical approach with these cases than he has done in the past. On Monday, for once, things didn’t go quite to plan for the applicants.

Although it’s thought that more than 100,000 identities have been handed over to lawyers like Gallant Macmillan and ACS:Law, worryingly CMW confirmed during the hearing that he didn’t possess the technical expertise to assess the nature or reliability of the evidence being used in the cases.

Not only that, CMW also told the court that he had been surprised at the amount of mail he had received from concerned individuals and remarked that this wouldn’t happen if there wasn’t a large degree of misaccusation.

“There wouldn’t be this hue and cry unless you were pursuing people who were innocent,” he told the applicants.

Condemning the actions as a “huge sledgehammer to crack a nut”, CMW pondered, “I can’t understand why in these thousands – hundreds of thousands – [of letters sent out] no-one has been sued.”

Of course, anyone following these cases knows why. This is all about money and one successfully contested case means the whole scheme comes to an end and these companies aren’t going to risk that.

However, there could be a light at the end of the tunnel. Chief Master Winegarten told the court Monday that once the Digital Economy Act is fully in force, further applications for court orders of this nature may not be successful.

CMW also refused to grant Ministry of Sound’s (MoS) application for a court order. He explained that he had received by letter “concerns from the public” that must be addressed before he could agree to it. The applicant (MoS) must respond on that by 27th September. The hearing itself was adjourned to be concluded 4th October 2010.

This decision to delay by CMW is particularly unusual and suggests that he is becoming more concerned by these actions. It is, however, commendable that he is doing so because without him trying to at least offer some protection to the public, these court orders would simply be granted.

The reason? Almost universally the UK’s ISPs have shown absolutely no desire to protect their customers, despite being well aware that people are being wrongfully accused. As an example, let’s look at Plusnet, the ISP shown as the primary target in this application by Ministry of Sound.

For months now there has been a storm brewing among Plusnet’s customer base. Dissent against the company’s approach to its handling of these court orders and particularly its relationship with ACS:Law has generated a near 40 page and often heated discussion on its customer service forums.

TorrentFreak has been in contact with Richard Fletcher of Plusnet previously but it seems that for legal reasons, whatever they might be, he hasn’t really been able to answer either our questions or those posed by Plusnet customers. Today there will be many more.

Despite promising that a member of their group’s legal team would be present in court to hear this Ministry of Sound application Monday, no one with any legal ability was sent, just a single observer who sat at the back in silence. On Monday evening, Richard Fletcher posted the following response:

I know a number of you have expressed disappointment at our approach, and that we are co-operating wholly with ACS:Law – I wish to be clear that Plusnet consider each application for Norwich Pharmacal Relief [court orders to reveal customer identities], however the decision as to whether a Norwich Pharamcal Order should be made, or not is a decision for the Court and Plusnet only disclose information when it is compelled to do so by the Court.

However, as TorrentFreak pointed out to Richard in an email yesterday morning (we also asked several questions and provided a summary of what happened in court Monday but have yet to receive a reply), this statement is missing the point somewhat.

The facts are that the judge hearing this case cannot find against the applicant (Ministry of Sound) because the ISP (Plusnet) is the defendant and Plusnet as a company are privately agreeing not to contest these court orders even before they are formally asked for in court. This type of agreement was illustrated very clearly when Plusnet didn’t even bother to send a lawyer.

While we all know that an ISP must comply with a court order once it’s issued, Plusnet and virtually every other ISP in the UK are giving the likes of Gallant Macmillan and ACS:Law a free ride by agreeing not to contest in advance.

But it doesn’t have to be this way. ISP TalkTalk have told TorrentFreak time and again that they refuse to cooperate with these companies and – surprise, surprise – TalkTalk are never required to hand over the details of their customers since they are never included on a court order application. All this despite being one of the country’s largest ISPs.

While the dawning of the Digital Economy Act may put an end to the schemes of ACS:Law and Gallant Macmillan, that time is still a while off and in the meantime many more thousands of people will receive letters and untold numbers of those will be wrongly accused as has been the case up to now.

It is clear. The country’s ISPs, Plusnet included, have the power to do something about this. Do the ISPs share the reservations of Chief Master Winegarten? Will they have the courage to add momentum to his concerns?

Will any UK ISP have the courage to oppose the next court order application based on Chief Master Winegarten’s concerns? If you are one such ISP, tell us. We’ll be happy to let the world know about it.

Related Posts

Previous Post | Next Post

  • Mr.Afghanistan

    WTF ?

    really WTF ?

  • Anonymous Coward

    Smaller ISPs just bend over most of the time. On the other hand some of them are just too big though, and even the “mighty” entertainment industry is afraid to take them to court in that case.

  • Hickster

    SHAME on PlusNet, i truly felt they would do something and HAVE been in contact with them myself. A lot of talk and NO action so far, but I realy felt they would do something.

    Well done CMW, with this decision maybe there might well be justice for all those accused.

    For those who have NOT seen my Blog it provides some background on these people who are accusing innocent people

    http://acsbore.wordpress.com/

  • AN UK ISP

    >delete log
    >problem solved

  • Undead

    become an hero

  • daniel

    I have recently herd that BT and talk talk are against the new bill and are trying to fight against it have anyone else herd this ?

  • anonymous

    until the UK ISPs actually get hit where it hurts, ie, in the pocket, they will do nothing! maybe the alternative ISPs are providing a poorer service, but at least it is better than no service at all. have said many times here, that until there is an amalgamation of ISPs, regardless of the country concerned, to fight this type of injustice, it will continue. when the only customers they have are only prepared to have a dial-up or free broadband service, maybe then they will take note. this is, however, typical UK attitude. ‘i am all jack, so f**k you’, until the fight gets to the respective doorsteps, that it is!

  • new saying

    should’av went to Talk Talk

  • Acce

    No file sharing = No use for broadband.

  • e21

    looks like http://www.gmlegal.co.uk are due a nice DDoS attack ;)

  • Dida

    “However, there could be a light at the end of the tunnel. Chief Master Winegarten told the court Monday that once the Digital Economy Act is fully in force, further applications for court orders of this nature may not be successful.”

    You appear to have a very strange understanding of what the DEA does.

    Copyright owners will force ISPs to send notifications based on IP addresses (same evidence as used by ACS law and co, collected by the same dodgy agencies). After three notifications the copyright owners get the subscriber details through a Norwich Pharmacal order, i.e. court order (same process as above), and then they may take them to court or force them to settle before that for vast amounts of money. Once the technical measures stage kicks in, 12 months or so after the notification stage starts, anybody who has received three notifications is subject to technical measures, no court involved what so ever….

    So I really don’t know what you mean with light at the end of the tunnel.

    Fact of the matter is, it is all based on the same dodgy evidence, i.e. IP addresses harvested through an undisclosed process, which has led to a large number of false accusations, and will lead to a large number of false notifications. And in turn, large number of innocent people being disconnected from their internet unless they can prove that there was no infringement on their connection. Which is obviously way better than people being harassed into paying £500 to be left alone.

  • Anonymous

    11

    i was falsely accused of file sharing, and my IP was rejected, thus leaving me without internet service. I work out of my home, and they took way of making ends meat from me. i fought it and tried to prove that i was innocent, but in the end i paid 100 cash to get my ip reconfigured.

    bastards.

    i had no previous considerations about the torrenting frenzy going on.

    now i do.

  • Ramonçito

    I don’t get it..

    The Ministry of Sound does exactly the same thing as the downloaders do: steal from artists..

    They make VA CDs, use 1 or 2 real tracks from well known artists and let some one-man synthesizer company recreate the other tracks so they don’t have to pay the real artist!

    That is exactly the same thing they say we do when downloading their stuff: stealing from artists!

  • TrustAvidity

    If I was Chief Master Winegarten, I’d make people call me Master Chief Winegarten just because I could.

  • Pingback: New 4chan DDoS Targets Hated Anti-Piracy Law Firm – TorrentFreak | Piracy Network

  • Whatever

    It seems that the scheme is already falling in pieces the moment ANY defense is mounted. This implies that the ISPs that agree not to contest are the cause of all this. Maybe some get some of the profit from them. As long as the customers don’t move it’s profitable. Otherwise refusing is even cheaper than not defending because once is sufficient.

    @11 Just wondering, if you’re a slow downloader would you get 3 notices in 3 days for the same torrent ?

  • Iwillfightthem

    If you want to see one of the reasons ISPs are not fighting see this PDF pages 14,20,21 it shows how much tele west broadband (now Virgin media) charged Davenport-Lyons for 156 IP addresses
    http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/resources/logistep_doc.pdf

    £18473

  • Ex Convict

    Willing to bet that is is one of their home numbers http://www.gmlegal.co.uk/emergency.aspx lol

  • Boba Fett

    You’re most likely to need our urgent help in dealing with the media.

    -A journalist may be outside your home or office and refuses to go away.

    -Someone is stalking you.

    +44(0)20 7758 4720

  • Dida

    @12 – was that in the UK? which ISP was that, K-Com?

    You know really, even with the DEA you still got the option of settling, and because it will be the BPI, they will want around £2,500 to leave you alone, that is what they did in 2005 – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/4166784.stm

    This is madness – the real issue is that they are using dodgy evidence and it is about time that a judge actually looks into the evidence; how it was collected, what the margin of error is etc.

    I really don’t get people who say it will all be better if everybody uses the DEA process, if ACS law and co use the DEA process what will change, nothing, apart from the fact that you can actually have your internet cut off if you received three notifications from them and you can’t prove that there was no infringement on your connection. If you get taken to court for copyright infringement they have to prove that you infringed copyright, if they can’t prove that it does not matter if there was any infringement on your connection as long as you have not authorised it.

    That’s why they don’t want to go to court. The only people that were ever convicted of filesharing in the UK admitted to it and did not turn up in court to defend themselves.

  • PiRat

    @4

    Records must kept for a year according to UK law.

  • Dida

    @15

    Ofcom is to determine that, in the moment they are saying that you can only get one notification per month… so it really depends on how slow your connection is :-)

    But no, you can get more than one notification for the same torrent, if you upload or download it for more than one month it is in theory possible.

  • Anonymous

    @20 by PiRat

    “Records must kept for a year according to UK law.”

    Opps!

    The HD crashed and the log has been lost!

    I am truly sorry your honor!

  • Anonymous

    The real problem is that the authorities let this kind of shit happen.

    It is time for the citizen of Uk to take the law into their own hands and do what is needed to do with ACS law.

  • FuzzyX

    I think plusnet are acting shamefully when any good business needs to protect their customer’s privacy.

    Not doing so leaves people open to being attacked, exploited, harassed and blackmailed.

    And often of course they attack the wrong person.

  • CMW Clueless

    CMW confirmed during the hearing that he didn’t possess the technical expertise to assess the nature or reliability of the evidence being used in the cases.

    If I for one did not have a clue about which subject I was a adjudicating about, I would have no hesitation deferring to to seeing guidance from a qualified authority before reaching a decision.

    Might as well be Homer Simpson sitting CMW’s chair.

  • sweet billy tuppence

    @11 Dida

    I think you’re a little bit confused, there is a world of difference between what ACS and others are dong with these NPO’s and what the record industry will do with them.

    Warnings issued by ACS law before demanding money = ZERO

    Everyone else = At least three, maybe more, yet to be decided.

    The music and movie companies will not be sending dirty little letters like this bunch demanding money.

    People will also get a chance at a proper appeal.

    The evidence gatherers will be approved and audited and we will know who they are, likely DtecNet in Denmark, not some mystery bullbrigade in Peru.

    That’s the light at the end of the tunnel

  • Gargamel

    Of course the ISP’s aren’t going to deal with this crap. All it means to them is more work they aren’t making money for doing.

  • the.dwarfer

    IPs for top filesharing sites (incase of DNS hijack)

    http://pastebin.com/N6wktp3i

    Your welcome

  • CMW Fan

    English judges are surprisingly liberal. All it would take is one case not to go their way and you have precedent. If only everyone would stand up to them they’d be powerless. It’s the only way to deal with bullies.

  • Pingback: ACS Law. Gallant McMillan. Illegal Filesharing - Page 2

  • Duke

    @26 First thing to note; this isn’t ACS:Law, this is a different law firm representing a Record Label, so this *is* the recording industry.

    Music, movie and game companies started doing this before ACS:Law took it up.

    Anyway, yes, to everything you said there… in theory. If the DEA is put into practice in the best possible way. Unfortunately, the DEA doesn’t absolutely require all these things. The current draft suggests that there won’t even be the option to appeal to a Court (also, what happened to trials?).

    As for the standards of evidence, Ofcom’s draft code asks for a “Quality Assurance” process, which will neither be open, transparent or approved (certainly not before it gets put into use).

    The difference between the DEA and what is happening here, is that the DEA adds a few extra steps that make it cheaper for large copyright owners and gives their extortion schemes some sort of legitimacy.

  • Bob

    Wow. Realization is a b*tch.

  • ahem

    @17

    That page of their contact..The GM legal logo at the top looks awfully similar to GM Motors.

    Compare:
    http://www.gmlegal.co.uk/image/head1.gif

    To:
    http://progressivegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/gm-logo.jpg

    Looks like they’re just as guilty of infringement..No surprise there.

  • dan

    Go TalkTalk!!

  • Dida

    @26 sweet billy tuppence

    Please have a look at the Ofcom proposal that was just out for consultation.

    There is no standard of evidence, so anybody can use the process as long as they have an IP address, does not matter where from. According to Ofcom the copyright owner has to self certify their evidence gathering process as robust. And they will not get audited as a matter of course, Ofcom reserves the right to do so. If a large number of innocent people get notifications there is absolutely nothing Ofcom will do, because as long as the copyright owner follows the process they have self certified they are compliant.

    As for the appeal process, please look at the ground for appeal, they do not include “I did not infringe copyright and I don’t know who did it”, you have to prove that there was no infringement on your connection otherwise you lose the appeal, which is to an administrative body, not even a judge. How are people suppose to prove that there was no infringement on their connection, and how is that a proper appeals process, its guilty until proven innocent?

    Really great, so you get put on some “copyright infringement list” because a copyright owner suspects your connection of copyright infringement and if you cant prove that you have not done it you are subject to technical measures.

    Re the notifications, the BPI has already sent dirty letters like this, and even worse, if you did not pay their first settlement offer, they demanded even more money.

  • Anonymous

    man i wish we had TalkTalk in our country too now

    at least some isp protecting their customers. would buy..

  • James

    If I was Chief Master Winegarten, I’d make people call me Master just because I could.

    Master! Master!
    Chop your breakfast on a mirror!

  • a

    Ministry of Sound Recordings

    ==

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/loic/

  • markie

    Does anybody know where to find all the hated discussion in the forums talked about in the article?

  • Concerned
  • seriously angry

    Here’s a clue for those money-grabbers:

    I too was accused falsely of filesharing and had to pay 100 pounds to get my ISP to give me my IP-connectivity back. And yes, I *was* innocent. Not only did it cost me lots of time, it also made me angry, VERY angry.
    Here’s what I decided to do:

    - I’m no longer going to be innocent. I’m now downloading at least 1000 pounds worth of new movies and music. Music I would by the way never even pay for even if I had the money, but I’ll do it to annoy them, to get entertained for free and to seed the files to others.
    - I now take part in every DDoS related to this bullshit. I do whatever the hell I want to online, and they can’t stop me.

    The fact that they consider this stealing is what makes me angry the most. If they don’t want stuff to be copied, they should not have made their creations digital, they should not have sold us computers, internet connections or harddisks. Not like all those were ever cheap you know.

  • jon7272

    once the isps go broke cause everybody gone somewhere else or pulled out of broadband. no torrenting no need for broadband full stop. lets sea what happenes then. fight now you stupid isps

  • Pingback: Senior Judge Warns of End To File-Sharing Cash Demands | Systema

  • some dude

    This is ridiculous!!
    there is no longer any freedom to do anything in this world.

  • FU FU FU FU FU

    Richard Fletcher – you are a spineless maggot!

    And Mistry of Shit, you can take that Synth-el-Cheapo and stick it where the sun don’t shine

  • cracktro

    @9
    “No file sharing = No use for broadband.”= exactly right.

    so who really loses? ISPs. when we all get disconnected.

    i have gotten 3 letters from DLing tv shows that I AM PAYING MY ISP TO SUPPLY ME WITH. i prefer to DL them to watch upstairs commercial free.. potentially i could get banned from net for that, even though NBC IS GETTING PAID FOR MY VIEWINGS OF THE SHOW= TOTAL BULLLSHEET!!! fockem.

    stick up for me or YOU lose my $60/month. choose.

  • cracktro addictro

    some dude? you said something intelligent. well done. well done.
    i actually approve of that sentiment and agree wholeheartedly..weird.

  • amy reid
  • somedude

    Crackto you haven’t been following my post lol.

    4 chan ddos read that reply
    European Parliament
    US Lawmakers Want to Quash Pirate Websites

    :)

  • Pingback: Online Global Week in Review 24 September 2010 from IP Think Tank

  • cracktro addictro

    …yeah i wasnt really following your post this time. just happened to see that you posted something i could agree with, and decided to be agreeable.. nothing more, nothing less.. ddos 4chan parliament squash some piracy meh, all that stuff you summarized is easily understood and discarded as old news.. sorry. but thanks for trying to point out that i wasnt following along. i was more interested in what teh judge had to say…

  • Pingback: Digital Economy Act in Practise – The Monitors

  • Dascrilla

    fight back against draconian anti-piracy companies while simultaneously demanding more from your torrent site.
    http://www.sharktorrents.com, they have a verified selection of torrents as well as a search bar that indexes over 15 torrent sites to find the most popular results to your query.
    http://www.sharktorrents.com

  • your not getting paid

    I can build several “NEW” MOS albums with the CD singles I bought from the ninetys – money for old rope.mp3

  • A.Bundy

    “The HD crashed and the log has been lost!

    I am truly sorry your honor!”

    #22, they don’t have honors in the uck…UK

    They call judges Lords, even though IMHO, anyone that bleeds can never be a lord. To me, a lord is any of the models in the Barrett line.

  • Toasty

    The only “Economy” here is the many wallets of executives and suits working for the media corporations and anti-piracy organizations.

  • Pingback: Anti-Piracy Lawyers Face DDoS Before Pivotal Court Decision | We R Pirates

  • Pingback: Anti-Piracy Lawyers Face DDoS Before Pivotal Court Decision | BJD Productions Blog

  • Pingback: Anti-Piracy Lawyers Face DDoS Before Pivotal Court Decision | Links Daily

  • Pingback: Anti Piracy Lawyers Face Ddos Before Pivotal Court Decision | IDTorrent Blog

  • Pingback: P2PTalk » Anti-Piracy Lawyers Face DDoS Before Pivotal Court Decision

  • Pingback: Anti Piracy Lawyers Face Ddos Before Pivotal Court Decision 2 | IDTorrent Blog

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

NewsBits

Even more news...

  • The Pirate Bay Isn’t Down Completely, Just Having a Few Issues

    Twitter and Facebook, not to mention the TorrentFreak inbox, are currently alive with complaints that The...

  • Pirate Bay Founder Gottfrid Svartholm on Freedom of Speech

    Freedom of speech is a highly valued commodity, but should people be allowed to say whatever...

  • Blu-ray Anti-Piracy Tech Stops Discs and Promotes Purchases

    An anti-piracy system present in all official Blu-ray players since 2012 has received a fresh update...

  • Foxtel Breeds Pirates by Locking Up Game of Thrones

    One of the main reasons why people turn to piracy is the lack of legal alternatives....

  • UK Student Admits Breaching Sony Copyrights With Leak of PS3 SDK

    Last year an Internet user known as El Nomeo leaked version 3.70 of Sony’s Playstation3 SDK...

MostDiscussed

Below are TorrentFreak's most discussed articles of the past month. Join the discussion if you like.

CopyQuote

Left Quote

“The Pirate Bay has been one of the most important movements in Sweden for freedom of speech, working against corruption and censorship.

Peter Sunde Left Quote

PopularArticles

A selection of some TorrentFreak's classics dug up from our archives.