Mark Cuban: BitTorrent is Doomed

Written by Smaran on January 23, 2007 

The self-acclaimed guru of IPTV, Mark Cuban claims that P2P, and more specifically, BitTorrent is doomed. Apparently, “conflicting clients”, lack of knowledge, limited Internet plans, and “bandwidth premiums” are going to be jointly responsible for the death of BitTorrent.

Mark CubanSo, here’s Cuban’s argument. He believes that from the business standpoint, BitTorrent and other peer-to-peer technologies are great. They save massive amounts of bandwidth and help efficiently distribute large media files, possibly even speeding up transfers. We agree with everything up ’til here.

But now he goes on to say that although content creators can profit from BitTorrent, users are getting screwed. Why? Here are his reasons.

  • Conflicting Clients
  • End Users don’t understand how P2P works
  • The P2P model of seeding is a HUGE problem for those [...] with bandwidth constraints or per bit or per minute costs
  • There is a misconception that there is bandwidth savings for the end user
  • On conflicting clients he says, “When multiple clients are installed on a PC, not only does that create confusion among users, its a ‘last installed, first in charge’ approach. THat approach and lack of respect for other clients will lead to user configuration problems.”

    Okay, number one, if you’re referring to file associations, ie. the most recently installed app is associated with the file type, then this “problem” is not limited to BitTorrent clients. Everything from graphic editors (Photoshop, Gimp) to music management applications (iTunes, WinAmp) do this. Secondly, if this causes confusion among users, then how do millions of people manage to get their music into iTunes and sync it to their iPods without accidentally having their mp3s added to the Windows Media Player library? This “lack of respect” isn’t so much about BitTorrent client developers trying to steal users from their competitors, as it is about how operating systems function today.

    Onto point two. “End Users dont understand how P2P works, and once they do, they get concerned about giving up bandwidth.”

    I hear BitTorrent transfers make up about one third of all traffic on the Internet these days. It seems rather likely that end users do in fact understand how P2P works. And unless their other online activities are hindered by BitTorrent or P2P, I don’t see users really having a problem with the uploads. Most don’t even bother uploading once their file has been download, and since the majority of users download torrents from public trackers, they aren’t forced to either.

    Mark’s third point, “The P2P model of seeding is a HUGE problem for those using wireless broadband with bandwidth constraints or per bit or per minute costs. People are going to wake up and find that they owe Verizon, Sprint, whoever a lot more than they ever thought possible because they installed a client on their Laptops. That could lead to these networks blocking the protocol.”

    Point three actually makes sense. The real problem here is miscommunication. In developing countries like India, ISPs milk customers for money by charging them for every MB downloaded, and in some cases, for every minute spent online. Some ISPs (Sify, for one) even lie about unlimited plans and have per-day limits (eg. 200 MB), which, if exceeded, cause the number of days the plan is valid for (usually a month) to be reduced every time the download limit is excedded. Someone I know actually ran up a bill of several hundred dollars because he thought he was on an unlimited plan, whereas in reality his ISP hadn’t processed his request to change plans. But as BitTorrent and P2P grow in popularity, users are quickly starting to demand ‘unlimited’ plans. If you look at the trend, ISPs are more likely to cash in on the P2P phenomenon and offer unlimited plans for a premium than start blocking protocols. And although per-bit and per-minute plans are widespread in developing countries, I don’t know how much of a problem they are to European, Australian and North American users.

    Cuban’s last point is, “There is a misconception that there is bandwidth savings for the end user. If you want to download a 1gb size file, 1gb of data will be delivered to your PC. There is no savings of bandwidth on the client side. In fact, the client is charged a bandwidth premium because after they have received the entire file, they are asked to particpate in the peering by delivering parts of the file to other users.”

    Guess what, the end user doesn’t care if he’s uploading bits while downloading. Unlike hosting providers, the user incurs no cost from constantly uploading data. It doesn’t matter, as long as he can go about his other activities. And unless he’s on a per-bit or per-minute plan, no “bandwidth premiums” are going to be charged to him. Also, no one is asking the user to “participate in the peering” (or simply, seed) once his download is complete. That is only a requirement of select private trackers.

    When it comes to utilising BitTorrent in business, as part of a content store, I think Cuban’s looking at it the wrong way. When the various BitTorrent stores (BitTorrent.com, Zudeo.com) are up and running, content creators are not going to be getting a free ride. Users are not going to pay the same price they do at conventional stores like the iTunes Store and Amazon Unbox. Why should they? They’re acting as servers for content creators and are distributing content for no charge at all. But since money isn’t being deducted from their bank accounts, and seeding a torrent is not really affecting their web browsing, users are okay with uploading.

    Keep in mind, this business model will only work if the rates at BitTorrent-powered content stores are significantly lower than conventional ones. In other words, users aren’t just going to let themselves be ripped off. If they feel they’re getting a raw deal, they’ll head straight to “illegal” torrent sites like The Pirate Bay and Isohunt. In fact, that’s what users are doing right now!

    I’m open to the possibility that I’m dead wrong. I don’t know, maybe Cuban is right. Maybe BitTorrent is in fact doomed, and the video streaming technologies he pioneered with Broadcast.com in the 90s will make a major comeback. I mean, who uses BitTorrent these days? Just a bunch of pirates, soon to be exiled to metal platform in the middle of the North Sea. Right? Right.

    What do you think? Are the days of P2P over? Is the the balkanisation of BitTorrent imminent?

    Creative Commons photograph by kk+.

    If you don't like torrents try MP3 Fiesta. They hold nearly 67,000 albums from nearly 17,000 artists. Prices are around the $0.10 mark for single tracks with full albums coming in at roughly $1.00. Tracks are available from 192kbps and they take major credit cards and PayPal

    Previously: Isohunt Back Online

    Next: The Pirate Bay: Serving over 4 Million Torrents a Day

    102 Responses (Add yours or TrackBack)

    Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 5 » Show All

    26 Jan 24, 2007 at 05:50 by Jess

    The main and only reason BT will fail is because its slow as hell. No one wants to wait forever to download the movie or tv episode they bought, or the music.

    Try any of the supposed pay to download bittorrent based media distributors, they are slow as hell. Who wants that? The only way to get faster speeds is to seed, and the avg consumer will not give a shit about seeding. They paid money for their product & they have ZERO reason to help save the store money.

    The whole bittorrent concept is completely flawed and useless as a means of commerical distribution.

    27 Jan 24, 2007 at 05:50 by Michael

    “Guess what, the end user doesn’t care if he’s uploading bits while downloading. Unlike hosting providers, the user incurs no cost from constantly uploading data.”

    Not true for everyone. My ISP includes uploads in my monthly quota. That’s the worst thing about Bigpond (Australia)

    28 Jan 24, 2007 at 05:53 by anonymous

    Kudos to a well written rebuttal of a man who thinks he knows everything about what “people” want.

    29 Jan 24, 2007 at 06:07 by Luke

    nice one bruv, top article.

    30 Jan 24, 2007 at 06:21 by plink

    If p2p is doomed, it’ll be because of dumbass developers who write clients that don’t play fair. *cough*BITCOMET*cough*

    31 Jan 24, 2007 at 06:38 by Denny

    Wow idiots, mark cuban isnt a self made millionaire for nothing, and he has a point, people are computer illiterate and mess shit up.

    32 Jan 24, 2007 at 06:46 by S.o.G.

    headline is complete BS. Cuban DOES NOT say that bittorrent is doomed. He says that he is not “as sure” as others that it will take over multimedia distribution, and to explain why points out some issues he sees with bittorrent IN THE CONTEXT of commercial distribution of multimedia.

    Congratulations on making yourself look like a reactionary teenaged fanboi incapable of understanding what you read.

    33 Jan 24, 2007 at 06:58 by Yatti420

    Say wha? I had to stop reading it was that bad… I doubt Bit Torrent is doomed Mr Cuban.

    34 Jan 24, 2007 at 07:11 by Ernesto

    [quote comment="42580"]headline is complete BS. Cuban DOES NOT say that bittorrent is doomed. He says that he is not “as sure” as others that it will take over multimedia distribution, and to explain why points out some issues he sees with bittorrent IN THE CONTEXT of commercial distribution of multimedia.
    [/quote]

    He still talks shit.

    All his arguments can be easily overcome in a commercial context.

    1. Seeding is not a problem, because there are server seeds that can serve as a backup

    2. Conflicting clients is not a problem, it’s a luxury. And most video services will implement a client in their service anyway

    3. The bandwidth saving is for the distributer and not for the user! The user benefits from it because the prodcuct will be cheaper.

    etcetera…

    35 Jan 24, 2007 at 08:01 by Smaran

    [quote comment="42537"]wasn’t this the guy that said “only a moron buy Youtube”?[/quote]

    Yes, he did! Google, the moron. Hah!

    36 Jan 24, 2007 at 09:02 by teelow

    VERY WRONG ! but nicely written letter. p2p wont die. bittorrent doesn’t rely on any central server. so it Can’t Die. end of story.. kind of makes you look stupid that you wrote that whole article and over looked that crucial point. but hey whatever floats your boat man.

    37 Jan 24, 2007 at 09:50 by PWNMASTER

    n00b!

    38 Jan 24, 2007 at 10:15 by Bubba

    Let’s face it. Mark Cuban is an idiot.

    He made his fortune by finding an even bigger idiot (whatever bozo at Yahoo who greenlighted the acquisition of broadcast.com for $5.7B!)

    Now he comments on tech like he knows what he is talking about, when his only repeatably proven talent is getting fined by the NBA.

    He said Google was stupid to buy YouTube (a company already 100x more successful than broadcast.com ever was). I don’t think there are many peope who would agree with that one. To me, it really seems like he’s just bitter that he hasn’t had an original idea in… well, ever?

    39 Jan 24, 2007 at 10:16 by Butu

    The last line of Cuban’s post:

    In conclusion, P2P is a product that tests great. In application however, it has a ton of challenges

    Yup what a tool… DOOMED I say DOOMED. I don’t think I will ever visit torrentfreak again for such a crass traffic mining headline.

    40 Jan 24, 2007 at 10:29 by Niceguy

    IPTV sux we need to murder this Mark Cuban dipshit and smear his entrails all over his pussy wussy excuse for a brain cell

    41 Jan 24, 2007 at 10:31 by Niceguyagain

    Pls someone dig out his eyeballs and skewer his nuts and ffed them to the idiot himself.

    then cut off his nipples and boil them and vitamise them smearign them all over his tummy then disembowel him slowly with a baseball bat.

    42 Jan 24, 2007 at 10:34 by Niceguyagainyetagain

    put a bomb in his fridge

    put arsenic in his cereal

    take the door of his microwave and tie his head into the microwave and turn the microwave on full

    43 Jan 24, 2007 at 11:33 by Jorge

    A very similar article to this one: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/8236/Mark+Cuban+on+BitTorrent:/

    44 Jan 24, 2007 at 12:19 by aRdho

    BitTorrent is amazing… :D we will still have it until the year 3000.. :P

    45 Jan 24, 2007 at 12:37 by asdf

    Computer illiterates do not know how to use a .torrent file, it’s too complicated for them, therefore it IS doomed.

    46 Jan 24, 2007 at 13:54 by random

    Everyone always forgets the legal bittorrent actions such as downloading linux ISOs

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