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MPAA Joins RIAA in “Monstrous” Jammie Thomas Appeal

In its appeal against the file-sharing mom Jammie Thomas, the RIAA has asked the court to reinstate a massive fine which U.S. District Judge Michael Davis previously slashed because it was “monstrous and shocking.” The music group argues that awards as high as $1.5 million for sharing 24 songs are appropriate and constitutional. In their appeal, the RIAA is joined by the MPAA who also want to overthrow the standing verdict.

riaaThe battle between the RIAA and the file-sharing mother of four Jammie Thomas has turned into a numbers game.

It all started in 2007 when a jury hit Thomas with a $222,000 verdict when she was found guilty of sharing 24 songs using the file-sharing client Kazaa. In 2008 Thomas appealed this verdict and a mistrial was declared, with the judge ruling that the fines were “disproportionate to the damages suffered.”

The case went up for re-trial before a new jury in 2009 where Thomas lost and was ordered to pay $1.92 million in fines. She then filed for a re-trial and in November 2010 a jury again found her guilty and awarded a total sum of $1.5 million .

Last year the case moved in another direction. Describing the massive damages as “monstrous and shocking” U.S. District Judge Michael Davis significantly reduced the earlier fine. Instead of $1.5 million, the judge ruled that $2,250 per song, for a total award of $54,000, is the maximum consistent with due process.

“The Court concludes that an award of $1.5 million for stealing and distributing 24 songs for personal use is appalling. Such an award is so severe and oppressive as to be wholly disproportioned to the offense and obviously unreasonable,” Judge Davis wrote.

The RIAA was disappointed by the verdict of the federal court, and is now hoping to reinstate the initial $222,000 damages award through an appeal. This week the music lobby group filed a brief in which they claim that this amount is not “monstrous and shocking,” and neither was the $1.5 million fine.

“Neither the first jury’s $9,250-per-work award nor the third jury’s $62,500-per-work award is more substantial than the Constitution allows,” the RIAA concludes.

The RIAA further criticizes Judge Davis’ ruling that any fine higher than $2,250 per infringed song requires some proof of actual damages. In other words, the RIAA would have to show that there is “some” relation with actual damages suffered by the copyright holder. According to the RIAA, neither the copyright act nor the due process clause requires this.

“Neither its legal analysis nor its factual analysis supports the court’s holding that the relationship between actual and statutory damages renders any award greater than $2,250 per work unconstitutional,” writes the RIAA.

The RIAA is not alone in their assessment, as they are now joined by the MPAA who this week filed an amicus brief in the case.

“That ruling improperly would require copyright owners who elect statutory damages to present proof of actual damages. Requiring such proof would significantly alter well-established ground rules for copyright litigation, add substantial practical burdens and unreasonably increase the costs of pursuing such litigation,” the MPAA writes.

In addition, the RIAA argues that Judge Davis made a mistake by ruling that “making a work available” is not part of the distribution right protected by the Copyright Act.

“The District Court erred in rejecting the first jury’s verdict on the mistaken ground that the Copyright Act does not protect the copyright holder’s long-established exclusive right to control the terms on which a work is ‘made available’ to the public,” the RIAA writes.

Again, the MPAA sides with the RIAA in its writing to the court.

“That right is, in fact, an international copyright norm. The right has particular importance in a digital age where unauthorized third parties routinely make available valuable copyrighted works for instantaneous dissemination to millions of Internet users around the globe,” they write.

It is now up to the court to decide if the arguments provided by the billion dollar entertainment companies hold any ground.

To be continued, indefinitely.

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  • /b/loody flies

    i seed 24/7 now because of these insidious ruleings.the more they try and stop us the more we will share!!!!!!! oh,1st ;-)

    • Floppy Copy

      Clearly the dystopian future has become the dystopian present. How utterly shameful. What little shred of loyalty I had left for the entertainment industry is now gone. I sincerely hope their choices come back to haunt them some day.

      • Mitch Mead

        I’m fairly certain there will be a movement in coming years. Hopefully I can be on the front lines.

        • Johannes

          Yep. You say “movement”, I say “revolution”.

          We’re sick of being shit on & told that we’re criminals, thugs, liars, slackers. We’re being told this by a fat cat who drives a $150,000 Mercedes and lights his cigars with $100 bills. Then he goes home to his trophy wife 20 years younger, does a couple lines of cocaine, calls a couple of hookers over, and parties until he passes out.

          Yes, we young lovers and sharers of music, often very strong customers… yes, WE are the problem.

    • Cum Fart Tsunami

      I like to seed so the MAFIAA can swallow my seed… <3

  • Never too soon.

    Provide actual proof? Who the fuck do you think we are, the Police?
    I find it truly insulting that the court attempts to hold our eminent body to any legal standards and as such we demand that your honour resign.

    • Never too soon.

      P.S. Any judge who dares questions out total authority has no place within our legal system and when we say ‘our legal system’ we means we own it, it’s already paid for.

  • sase

    Why should the studios be awarded damages if they don’t have to prove there was any financial harm caused in the first place? It sounds all round ridiculous to begin with. “We’re entitled to $X, yet we don’t have to state why”.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Exactly right and I don’t understand why someone has not and does not bring that up in one of these cases.

      If I take someone to court for damaging my property, I actually have to prove that there was some monetary loss and give a reason for the amount that I put on that to the judge in question.

    • Mike

      There is no way to calculate the amount of damages potentially lost in an illegal download because the woman downloading it onto her computer could copy that file to another, than another. It is not impossible to calculate the amount of damage on, say, a vase that was stolen from your house because you can show a receipt, you can look at the current price in stores. There is a large difference between intellectual property and actual property. Even though these people are definitely 100% thieves who knowingly illegally download copyrighted music, the difference between a download and a physical object needs to be acknowledged. You cannot copy a vase and give it to 150 friends simply by pointing and clicking. Also its not the ‘studios’ that get this money.. it’s the performance rights organizations. The labels for the most part don’t touch copyright, they just care for the preservation of their industry and the work of their signed artists. And because the government will not step in and stomp out illegal activity, the RIAA has no choice but to go on a suing frenzy. The government is not protecting or enforcing the laws that it instated. If you have a problem, point fingers at your government, not the RIAA.

      • Nospam

        Are you attempting to be sarcastic or retarded?

        • http://profiles.google.com/artfulldragon TL Dragon

          Hey, retarded people have a sense of reason and fairness. They may not have the IQ or ability to process certain information in a useable way, but that is no reason to insult or demean them by lumping them with this douchebag and his ilk.

          This fucktard is 100% a cousin humping, dirt eating, amoeba brained, corporate stooge.

      • http://www.facebook.com/egnyquist Erik G. Nyquist

        So which group hired you to post this?

      • Tenkyu

        Brilliant reply!

      • RIAAtarded

        i can accurately state loses. 99 cents a song on itunes x 24 songs = $23.76
        We need to be realistic here no way some mom on a home computer racked up 1.5 million in lost revenue and it is disturbing they are extrapolating losing using the snowball downhill equation. Even more so by the fact they don’t have to prove SFA to back up the claims. That mean I can sue for millions for being lied to when I bought the milli vanilli CDs? I did so in good faith but they weren’t even on the album. All those boy bands are cruel and unusual punishment right? Sees like they decide damages by throwing a set of yatzee dice.

        • PelouzeTF

          yeah, because being fined for the exact ‘cost to you had you bought the music, should you get caught” is a real deterrent.

          A deterrent is in place to dissuade you from doing something you know you shouldn’t.

        • Herptyderp

          @PelouzeTF
          I think you are mixing up criminal and public court.

        • StrykerX

          @PelouzeTF

          Lawsuits are not supposed to be fines or deterrents. They are supposed to be a way to be compensated for money, property, or time that you lost due to someone else’s actions. Compensatory damages are supposed to be limited to what you can actually prove the person you are suing cost you… in this case, 99 cents per song downloaded plus 99 cents for each copy they can prove she distributed. There are also punitive damages possible, which are generally limited to some multiple of the compensatory damages (or at least should be). However, even at punitive damages of 10 times the compensatory damages (which would be HIGH in a non-IP related case) and assuming she seeded to a ration of 10 (yeah, right…) that’s only around $2400.

          An actual fine could be much higher, and could indeed be designed primarily as a deterrent. However, that’s CRIMINAL law, not civil… such fines would have to be implemented by Congress and imposed by a criminal court, not a lawsuit. Civil law isn’t there to make examples of people, it’s there to recover real damages.

      • Anonymous

        They aren’t “thieves” Mike, they’re “copyright infringers”. Stop being a such a drama queen.

        The millions they’re trying to claim from her in ‘damages’ is like a private record store, who’s windows were smashed during a riot, trying to sue the one guy arrested for rioting… and suing him for the damage done to all the property in the entire city – public and private. It’s ridiculous.

      • ZiggySig

        Since there have been multiple studies, suggesting, that file sharing can have positive effect on sales in various situations (for example, increase in ticket sales for concerts), and RIAA doesn’t have the ability to measure their loses… How can they prove they have sustained any loses at all?

        I mean, come on! Coming to a court, and demanding some random sum for personal file use? Also, if they’re happy with $222,000, as are happy with $1,500,000, doesn’t it tell you something? Doesn’t it mean, that they don’t give a flying duck about their loses. To me this looks like a personal attack.

        • Herptyderp

          I agree. The RIAA should pay the woman $222,000, for advertising these songs.

      • Asd

        Bullshit. Courts award damages for things which are difficult to determine all the time, like the total costs of medical care for someone who has lost an arm over the course of their lifetime, including lost wages (allowing for reduced life expectancy), and adding an amount proportionate to the pain and suffering resulting from that injury. Typically they get an actuary in to help with this.

        Now, if a court can assign a dollar value to something that complicated, they should have no problems getting an statistician in to determine the actual no. of lost sales. There have certainly been enough studies done on the topic for them to establish this on the balance of probabilities. The only thing is that the RIAA ain’t gonna like it, because it will increase the costs of these cases (actuaries are rather pricey), and because it will demonstrate that the damage caused is zero, or close to it.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PFCI5VRUCYT6AVBT3P6ILV3COI Ophelia Millais

        Mike, it seems you are a new copyright industry shill here and need to be brought up to speed on several things. There are lengthy explanations of each of these points available in the articles and comments here and elsewhere, but I’ll stick to the highlights. 1. Copying is not stealing, since you still have your copy. 2. Regardless of whether it is legally a copyright infringement, and regardless of who is said to be responsible, a copy doesn’t represent a lost sale (usually). 3. There’s evidence that file sharers actually buy more of the type of content they share than do their non-sharing counterparts. 4. A copyrighted work is only worth what the market will sustain, not what arbitrary, lifestyle-sustaining value the copyright owners claim it has. 5. Copyright law does not support the assertion that merely putting copyrighted content in a publicly accessible place, or even mentioning/pointing to that place, is an infringement; only actual copying is infringement. 6. The MPAA and RIAA do in fact represent studios and labels who own copyrighted motion pictures and music, they are increasingly responsible for authoring copyright treaties and laws, and they are the ones suing, so how can you say they barely touch copyright? The RIAA has already said whatever money it gets from this type of litigation would only go back into more litigation, so the labels, artists, and hired hands do not get a dime. Also these little guys have managers and lawyers and unions who have to fight tooth and nail against the labels/studios just to get contract terms that don’t completely screw them. The RIAA is not on the side of the artists, period. They’re a publicity, lobbying, and litigating group of record labels, and they act in their own interests and the interests of their shareholders, nothing more. 7. Copyright was designed to benefit the public by expiring after a short time, ensuring that creators (or those who own and exploit the creations of others) will be forced to create new works in order to generate more revenue, rather than counting on a lifetime of income from a handful of works created long ago. The industry has had its cocaine—I mean cake—and ate it, too. It wanted the public to treat art strictly as a commodity, and now it’s reaping what it has sown. Technology and the marketplace have determined that the copyright exploiting industry isn’t needed anymore, at least for distribution, yet all the old guard can do is whine and cry that governments of the world haven’t waved a magic wand to put the genie back in the bottle and/or built city-sized prisons to house all the people who ever listened to a song or watched a movie without paying for it.

      • Iqbalshaikh1964

        you are agent of studios you shall not share your thoughts with us,Go To Hell.

      • Guest

        “the difference between a download and a physical object needs to be acknowledged”

        Yes. Now practice what you preach and acknowledge that to duplicate a song, a movie, or a game is not to steal it. The people who illegally download copyright works are 0% thieves, unless they have an IRL shoplifting habbit or something.

  • Zan

    One day in the hopefuly not to distant future both organisations will be good.

    Either that or they will take over the world, whistlers without a license will be executed on the spot.

    Worship them and their almighty IP or dieeee………

    • Zan

      good – gone! darn typo

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    Would it not be easier and more simple for the MAFIAA just to get the 13th Amendment abolished and get slavery by rich people re-instated into law?

    That’s what, in effect, these excessive and outrageous claims for compensation will actually result in because you, your life and your earnings will belong to “the Company” once the Court makes such a stupid decision.

    No wonder China seems to have a better rep than the USA these days.

    • Hman

      Obama has been such a failure. SOPA NDAA TSA raiding medical marijuanna shops etc. I voted for that prick and contributed money to his campaign on multiple occasions. He lied about change. Patriot act, Gitmo still there. More wars not less. We are going down in flames people. Ron Paul is the only one speaking out against SOPA and all the other crap the corporations are forcing on us via lobby/bribe money going to politicians. WAKE UP my fellow Americans before it is all too late. Jeeeeeez

      • Guest

        Failure or success?

        You gotta remember that the President doesn’t work for the American people, but for any and every wealthy special interest that can pony up a sufficient bribe through lobbying. From the perspective of this, his real demographic, he’s been pretty damn successful.

        Also, in regards to Ron Paul, I seem to remember another Presidential candidate speaking out against the evils of the status quo and promising to vanquish them. What was his name again? I think it started with an ‘O’…

        “WAKE UP”? That’s some good advice.

      • Stop complaining

        You’re a tool. I’m sure that wrapping up a war you didn’t start should make you REALLY MAD at the president who started the war against the advise of dozens of countries, but your’e only here to rant about your political preferences. You most likely voted for Bush in the prior election and, along with thousands of others, have yet to hold yourself accountable for the war that you supposedly despise.

    • PelouzeTF

      Here’s an idea – don’t infringe on owners rights. Then people wouldn’t have to worry about it and wouldn’t have to blame someone else for their own stupidity.

      • FinalApokylypse

        Here’s an idea – Wake up and realise that even if he were to take your advice and everyone else who reads your comments it wouldn’t have any real dent on the amount of file-sharing that’s out there and so wouldn’t do what you just said it would. Here’s a little thought for you, people have picked file-sharing up and embraced it, ridiculous fines for copyright infringement have been out there and yet still people do it. Unless you lock up everyone you see infringing without question indefinitely I doubt you’ll see any progress with decreasing online piracy..

        Or you could just provide the content/services users want.. which is probably easier..

      • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

        Here’s an idea: prove your claims. We’ll think about stopping file sharing once you prove your claims without biased and flawed studies.

  • Pingback: Notrackingme | Proxy » Blog Archive » MPAA Joins RIAA in “Monstrous” Jammie Thomas Appeal

  • http://twitter.com/steveaustin1971 Shawn L

    Whatever you can do to take money from the pockets of these monsters of the industry is not only patriotic, but also necessary.

  • It It

    (This is only my thinking on how to solve this issues from her perspective)
    If I would have to pay that sum, I would say in court, that as soon as could, I would try to kill the singers of the songs. I would then have a better place in jail as somewhere on a street with money hunters in my back. I think it is almost for sure, that she will lost her children because of this.

  • http://ilike1664.myopenid.com/ why?

    “That ruling improperly would require copyright owners who elect statutory damages to present proof of actual damages. Requiring such proof would significantly alter well-established ground rules for copyright litigation, add substantial practical burdens and unreasonably increase the costs of pursuing such litigation,”

    Surely 1.5 million would cover any costs, it would just force these leeches to provide proof rather than whining like a spoilt brat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000617943487 Máté Bikfalvi

    Why the hell do they think she will be able to pay $1.5 million? Even the grandchildren of HER grandchildren will be paying it and I bet they would put interest on it just to make it even harder. and for what 24 songs?

    I wonder what the hell goes on the minds of people at the RIAA and MPAA.

    • Anonymous

      Actually the original claim was she was sharing 1702 songs where this was reduced down to 24 songs being the ones easy to prove and owned by Capital/Virgin Records.

      If it is any consultation then the bad publicity that the RIAA has generated over this case made them give up from doing it again. I am sure they know there is not much money to be had from a single mother of three kids.

      • http://www.facebook.com/egnyquist Erik G. Nyquist

        Bad publicity is not their concern- the purpose of this is really just to ‘make an example’ of someone. They’re attempting to create a deterrent. Of course, they’re going about it the wrong way; wiping out napster only led to the creation of dozens, if not hundreds, of other music-sharing groups and venues.

        Some legal experts argue that they have no choice but to defend misuse of intellectual property in court, but these are the same legal experts who charge $600 an hour in order to pursue these legal actions. If you want to know who to ultimately blame for this mess, then look to the words of William Shakespeare:

        ‘The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.’

  • Anonymous

    What I find disgusting (among their cocky and snide attitudes of the MPAA and RIAA) is that they think $1.5 million in damages is affordable and ok. She has a family you bastarding pricks (Can’t really think of an insult GOOD enough to use on them). She’s not a tycoon with oodles of cash falling out of her pockets and yet regardless of the common sense of the ‘people’- these lobbying groups will still push for fines such as the ones discussed in the article. When I read articles like this- Makes me die a little inside to think that I’m living on the same planet as those pricks. To close on this rather angry rant- If they’re so insistent on shit like this I can safely say they’re not even close to human. Even if they are- they’re probably only 1% human and 99% shit faced liars out to make a quick buck. No morals- no remorse. Utter ..Bastards >:(

    • Tenkyu

      She should have thought twice before ripping off the industry then. Its like a criminal crying, “please judge, I have a family, let me go” and all is forgiven. Doesn’t work that way pal.

      • Erthwjim

        I can sell you a million dollar bridge to nowhere if you think she’s ripping off the industry

      • lulz

        Wow Tenkyu… You must really be stupid. You can go on a stealing spree in just about ANY store and get off with lesser fines or equivalent jail time.

        GTFO of TF, asshole.

        • Tenkyu

          You idiot, when you go on a stealing spree in a store, only you possess the stolen items, nobody else possesses them or benefits from it. But when you upload 24 songs online, millions of peeps will download that song. That means a million people are now in possession of the 24 songs illegally. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why the damages in the second case is much higher.

        • Anonymous

          @Tenkyu: But again, how can they prove this? If little Tommy steals your glue during craft time, uses a bunch and hands you back an empty bottle, you can’t just go to teacher and whine “he tooked this many glues!” In order for the teacher to be fair and just, she’ll/he’ll need to have proof that Tommy stole any of your glue at all. Knowing you, a fair and just teacher would assume you ate it. :/

          In the example with the store and theft, it would be equivalent to the store claiming the thief also made a million copies of the media and handed them out. For one, they’d need to prove it, and secondly, they’d need to prove that those copies cost them money.

          I really shouldn’t have to explain this stuff. It’s common sense. :/

        • guenthar martin

          @Tenkyu

          You are full of BS since she would only be responsible for the 1 or 2 hundred uploads she made (if that) and not for any uploads that anyone else did. I’m just guessing at a couple hundred since depending on her internet and how many other people already had the songs at the time it could be far less or maybe a little more but nowhere near your number or even the value that they are charging her with.

          PS. If her and everyone who downloaded the songs from her thought they were crap (like most of the music being released by the RIAA) and wouldn’t pay 1 cent for it then the RIAA wouldn’t have any losses. I stopped getting music from the RIAA before I even started downloading because it was all crap.

      • Anonymous

        She ripped off the industry? I have two words for that:

        Prove it.

        Good luck. I hope you have better resources than the couple multi-billion dollar corporations who couldn’t prove it either.

        • Tenkyu

          Nobody in the world can prove anything to a dumb bloke like you unless you take those blinkers off.

        • Anonymous

          I’m sure somebody can prove something to me. Maybe Magellan?

        • Danny

          Tenkyu are you talking to yourself?

        • Guest

          “Nobody in the world can prove anything to a dumb bloke like you unless you take those blinkers off.”

          Translation: I can’t prove anything to you as long as you’re unwilling to believe in the copyright industry’s blatant, easily contradicted lies.

      • Guest

        @Tenkyu

        Here’s an idea: I’ll shoot you in the face for jaywalking, and if you complain, well, then you should have thought twice before breaking the law.

        Since that’s how it works according to you, you shouldn’t have any problems with it. Right?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zack-Nelson/1287355169 Zack Nelson

    It’s a shame that the Content MAFIAA thinks they’re above the law, and they’re allowed to sue families into homelessness (which is what a $1.5 million lawsuit does) without due process (because they have to show proof of actual damages).

    The $1.5 million dollar penalty is monstrous and shocking, and totally disproportionate to the crime they’ve charged her with. No average citizen can pay fines that huge, and financially support themselves afterwards. The judge was right to slash those penalties.

    Also with the talks saying that they don’t need proof is ridiculous. Of course you need proof, that’s how a fair trial works. Without that presumption of innocence, there would be nothing left to protect innocent people from persecution by the government and other parties. Plus the MAFIAA, nor anybody else, shouldn’t be allowed to just take millions of dollars from an individual by force without a very good explanation.

    I’m a student at a community college, and I have given a presentation on internet piracy, and why people engage in it. One of the reasons presented was to act out in civil disobedience, and screw these labels over by not buying their stuff. There are activists out there that doesn’t want to give their money to a big media conglomerate that does these sorts of things.

    • http://www.facebook.com/egnyquist Erik G. Nyquist

      I know, having the burden of proof on the copyright holders would make it so difficult to actually win these cases.

      Proof is such a burden!

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  • Anonymous

    That actually sounds like a plan to me dude.
    Privacy-Pros.tk

  • Guess

    “That ruling improperly would require copyright owners who elect statutory damages to present proof of actual damages. Requiring such proof would significantly alter well-established ground rules for copyright litigation, add substantial practical burdens and unreasonably increase the costs of pursuing such litigation,” the MPAA writes.

    please get the person who wrote this p**s tested asap because they seriously have to be on heroin to belive this peice of fantasy

    • Gae

      Nice to see they consider requiring proof to be a practical burden and an unreasonable cost.

    • Anonymous

      To play the devil’s advocate, stores who fall victim to theft do not have to prove damages either. It is likely that the process of litigation followed this model.

      And to stop playing the devil’s advocate: To “elect statutory damages” but not have to prove statutory damages is mind-bogglingly retarded.

      • guenthar martin

        Actually there needs to be evidence to arrest the suspect of the robbery. It is usually through video, finding stolen merchandise on the person or in their place of residence, or money received for the stolen merchandise. They can also have third party witness testimony as evidence.

  • Anonymous

    Talk about David and Goliath. Or more currently this Single Mom of 3 Kids versus the vast combined resources of the RIAA and MPAA.

    This case is not even about what Jamie Thomas has to pay when the RIAA even offered her half of this $54,000 to settle. She said “no” despite it being easy for her to raise the funds in an appeal. Instead this has all become the size of the club that the RIAA & MPAA can go around whacking every other home user with.

    What is most perplexing is that the RIAA has already given up attacking home users and this case will cost them millions more in legal fees than what they will ever see from her. Best they stick to people who can afford such damages.

    There is little doubt that this case will eventually end up in the Supreme Court when neither side is happy to see this case end.

  • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

    $1.5 million = $40,330 per song for 24 songs.

    WTF

    oh i get it now. the bosses cant be arsed to change with the way of how the consumer wants to gain and buy their products so why not sue 1 user and gain more than albums worth.

    • Doug

      Ive got 7584 tracks on my mp3 player

      7584 @ $40,330 for each track = $305,862,720

      ebay? ill keep the reserve at 300mill…any takers?

    • Tenkyu

      Don’t you putas get it? Its $40,300 per song and not $0.99 per song because there were probably millions who downloaded each song when she uploaded it. So why should the cost of only a single copy of the song be accounted for when millions have had access to it illegally thanks to her?

      • Danny

        Please prove that anyone downloaded the track from her, and also any person that downloaded may have bought or never intended to buy the track. Then please prove all damages.

        The simple fact of the industry is that it is thriving, even though ‘piracy’ is rampant and has been for over a decade they are still making billions. This is contrary to their many claims!

      • http://twitter.com/xPreatorianx xPreatorianx

        Actually it’s you who doesn’t seem to get it. But since you honestly believe this woman deserves that amount of money put on her that she has to pay off. Why don’t you get caught downloading?

        you know the funny thing is, the people who say this is actually a good thing and she deserves it, wouldn’t feel the same way if it happened to them. You can always tell when someone is just a fucking ignorant, dumbass, corporate shill because they don’t take 10 seconds and try to put themselves in the shoes of the person who is facing these crimes.

        Likewise Tenkyu – prove that she shared the music with anyone. The funny thing is you can’t. Until someone can actually prove that she shared the music with X amount of other people, the money amount is far too fucking much compared to the actual crime.

        • PelouzeTF

          Its easy not to get caught downloading, you buy the material you want, you know, from earned income, that you get from doing a job.

      • Acslawarecrooks

        You really don’t know how P2P works do you. She probably had her client set to upload to a certain ratio, normally 1:1. The way the software works is that she would be one of many uploading the songs and so she would only upload parts of each song. this means she uploaded only 1 copy therefore 24x.99c. Any further uploads are nothing to do with her and so it doesn’t matter if millions of people got the songs as she only uploaded one copy (at a ratio of 1:1)

        • FinalApokylypse

          Actually that 1:1 would make it 24×1.98 because it’s 2 copies. One for her one to someone else. However your point is still correct. Anyone who thinks that I can download a torrent file and share 1000 copies of it easily is completely ignorant, let alone millions like Tenkyu thinks happens all the time.

      • Pedro_mann

        Lets just say you are right, an unknown number of people may have downloaded from her, making each of those violators “copyright infringers” So is she supposed to be like Jesus or something, taking on the sins of everyone who has downloaded media from the internet?

        I reasonable deterrent would be like a 10X damage award, most people would have bad memories from paying $100 per album for all their spoils. Each person who commits infringement should be tried separately. It is crazy to think that one person should be liable for the actions of others, she did not make them download music form her, also to say that probably millions of people downloaded from her is ambiguous and is invalid. It needs to be proved.

      • Guest

        Alright, math time.

        Let’s assume every upload is a lost sale, for sake of easy math (the economist in me weeps at this assumption, but whatever).

        Assume a 5 Megabyte MP3
        Assume a standard, residential 768kbps upload (may have been lower back then. I know the cable I had then was only 512kbps upload)
        Assume 100% utilization (bullshit) and zero overhead (more bullshit).
        Assume every upload was one of the affected songs.

        That’s about 52 seconds to upload 1 song.
        About 70 songs an hour.

        So, at maximum utilization, that’s up to 600k downloads in a year’s time. Between everything she was seeding.

        Maximum utilization does not happen in a home setting. No one runs that 24/7 (it would make actually surfing the internet borderline impossible), and of course, that assumes a constant supply of downloaders, which doesn’t happen long term.

        Zero overhead, not gonna happen. Bittorrent is pretty efficient though, so the most easily disprovable assumption is probably the closest to reality.

        Each upload being one of the songs is damn unlikely.

        As for every upload being a lost sale, you can debunk that with the tools provided by Economics 101 before the end of the first week (2nd week if it’s a slow class).

        So, lets assume 10% utilization, even downloads among all 1702 songs, 10% overhead, and she’s shared each song with. . . about 30 people.

        They’d fine you less for just outright walking into a record store, stealing 30 albums and then handing them out.

  • John Galt

    No matter what damages she is told to pay, she can always declare bankruptcy and wipe it out.

    • Anonymous

      Not anymore. One can not use bankruptcy to discharge debt resulting from “willful and malicious” harm. She’s stuck.

      • Guest

        I’ll have to disagree there askbillmitchell, the portion you refer to states “for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to the property of another entity”. The trick there is ‘malicious’ which would have to mean she did so with the intent to harm (ie: fraud, which is actually listed under it’s own provision). Granted IANAL but I did play one in a cubicle for 6 years at a big finance corp. No throwing stones for being the son of the devil though please, at least I tried to help the debtors when I could :-)

  • astroboi

    Since they are determined to equate imaginary property with real property, make them go all the way. Local, state and federal governments are looking for new tax sources so levy a property tax on movies, tunes and such, just as real property is taxed. Failing to pay the “imaginary property tax” will cause said property to be seized and auctioned off. Also, inspectors would make sure said imaginary property was properly maintained, just as building inspectors check out your home and buildings. A movie company who allowed their negatives to fall into disrepair would be required to restore them in order to maintain their claim of ownership. Failure would get the material auctioned off by the sheriff. And presto! Lotsa new taxes rolling in and all from rich guys we hate anyway. Watcha think?

  • Anonymous

    One day we may all live to see the MAFIAA destroyed utterly.It will be a good day to see this happen.
    SOPA/PIPA = WAR

  • JaredLeeLoughner

    If anyone is going to kill themselves on here, murder as many of them cunts as you can first.

    • Oldguy

      I have been saying this for a while that if they don’t clam down with the suing they are gonna wake up one morning to the RIAA people gunned down in their offices!

      The USA is the wild west for guns…kids have them!

      When I hear people speak like this I do not brush it off as some dumb kid I take it series. I have seen a great deal of this violent speak recently.

      I would beg young people to restrain from violent talk but to stay calm and march on Washington during the SOPA vote and show the next generation have had enough of the debt and laws that shackle them the most! March and show them when YOU come in to your own and they die you will over turn their laws and pass laws against old people. Then they may think to stop hurting you. I am ashamed of the way my generation is treating and using young people.

  • Anonymous

    strange how the RIAA and MPAA want these colossal fines against ordinary citizens but when they are caught doing exactly the same thing and to THEIR OWN ARTISTS AT THAT, not only do they deny everything, use any and every excuse possible but then pay far, far less in fines and compensation, if they pay anything out at all. as for the part about ‘the ruling improperly would require copyright owners who elect statutory damages to present proof of actual damages’, i was of the opinion that in any court case, proof was the main requirement. any bloody fool can say something did something that caused something else to happen/not happen!

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  • Anonymous

    I don’t understand. You can fine her 1.5 million or 1.5 billion… it doesn’t matter. She won’t be able to pay it. This whole thing is such a waste of time & energy.

    • Guest

      They have to sue someone or the studios they represent will not put forward the money every year. No money = no funds = no jobs.

      The studios are pissing their money away every day.

      Like King Canute, they just can’t see the folly of their actions. The MPAA and RIAA court their leaders with lies, while all the time wasting money hand over fist.

      Long may it continue. Hopefully the whole operation will go belly-up in a year or two.

    • http://codeflow.org/ Florian Bösch

      She’ll go to jail when she can’t pay it.

      • Guest

        Then, hopefully, the citizens of the interwebs will make her a martyr for the cause, and highlight the atrocities perpetrated on citizens by a dying business which holds sway on the very governments of nations.

        Good luck to her.

      • Torrent2Save$

        Bankruptcy Florian Bösch… it wasn’t a felony.

    • Cat

      It’s not about the money. They want to make an example and destroy someone; at least it seems that way to me. I suspect that if they get the 1.5 million back, they will appeal again for more. I think the plan is to keep her in court forever regardless, just to show everyone that they can and will destroy a person and a family over this. If she paid the money tomorrow, she’d be back on Sunday will they try and screw her again… but that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.

      • Torrent2Save$

        It’s ALWAYS about the money. Revenge is a nice bonus for them though. This lawsuit is already a loss financially for the riaa but they are still hoping to get what they wanted from the beginning and that is a legal precedent. If they get a “favorable” legal precedent they will proceed with many more profitable lawsuits.

        Don’t ask me how I know this but their legal war room has a chart that states the following:

        Stage 1: Create a model by setting a legal precedent with a substantial settlement.
        Stage 2: Copy + Paste model ad infinitum to offset losses from Internet piracy.

  • FUCK-RIAA-MPAA

    One thing we found out about this case:
    -Which judge is paid off more by the MPAA, RIAA and the similar likes

  • Albert

    I wish they would prove damages, Then maybe they could go on and prove other things. Like leprechauns, the easter bunny, and santa claus exist, wich I believe are more likely than any real damages suffered by copyright holders in this case.

    • Noone

      You missed off god from the prove they exist list.

      • Anonymous

        I think that was purposeful. You know, because he isn’t a worthless troll.

      • Religion Sucks

        Everyone knows god doesn’t exist. No need to prove that anymore.

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  • Guest

    Anyone here, who knows the U.S. law system?

    “$1.5 million = $40,330 per song for 24 songs.”

    So.. she downloaded 24 mp3s, left those seeding and gets fined $1.5 million?
    But.. lets imagine if she would have actually stolen these 24 singles/CDs from CD store, what is the punishment by the U.S. legal system for this? $3 million? 6 million? Mehh.. this is ridiculous.

    • Anonymous

      On the first case of theft it would most likely end in an official Police caution.

      Following cases follow the shoplifting concept. Minor theft also cautioned then you have fine, community service or in the worst cases prison time.

      Imposed fines vary between the UK and US. In the UK they aim for fair punishment but in US they go for higher deterrents. I can give no exact examples.

      Most people prefer to go with the $0.99 song cost from iTunes.

  • Anonymous

    The Pirate Bay has 33 million peers. I guess the first ruling indicates that copyright organisations are owed at least $50 trillion in damages. That’s not excessive at all.

  • foff

    How the fuck can there be any damage when currently there are tons of free mp3 sites and you tube. These mafiaa cocaine sortin thugs need to be s h o t through the left eye socket!

  • Guest

    Corporate entertainment parasite: “Since we made all these laws internationally we know better than you judge!

    Let’s kill them all!

  • Guest

    Heuuuu. . . . May be they should pay this judge a little bit more?

  • Gae

    If this was not for real I would laugh, I mean they are mad because they may have to actually provide some kind of proof of their claims?

    Seriously… why don’t they just fuck off.

  • FED UP

    I am soo sick of all this Bullsh!t here in the US. Corporations are running this country now and the people need to get off there asses and take it back. Enough is enough , since when do we let the terrorism task force enforce copyright laws? America needs to wake up and do it fast before its too late….VIVA LA REVOLUTION

  • Alyssa Blindy

    The fines are unconstitutional according to the eighth amendment, not some copyright Act weaner sausage sopa law thingy dink.
    Or did we lose our bill of rights when that act got signed into law allowing the indefinite detention of United States citizens?

  • Cyke1

    “This week the music lobby group filed a brief in which they claim that this amount is not “monstrous and shocking,” and neither was the $1.5 million fine.”
    ^ maybe to a group that makes that every 30min at most but when its someone that be lucky to make that in 30 years it is monstrous

  • Noone

    I know this has been said here many times but I’m still surprised that no lawyer has brought up in court the constant annual profit upon profit the music & movie industry declare each year, if piracy is so damaging to them surely annual profits would be diminishing instead of growing. If they don’t have to prove the extent of financial loss then surely from the defendants side putting these freely available, officially declared profits from these industries would be a plus point in there favour.

    Oh I forget though I have common sense & think fairly & justly for no financial gain, thats where I’m going wrong I s’pose.

    • Anonymous

      Most arguments like these aren’t considered relevant in these cases. Lawyers need to go by what the law says regardless of how just it is, and the law says Jammie Thomas needs be sued into the dirt until she dies of stress. Her actions may not have had any negative effect, and they may be ruining her life for the sole purpose of getting a precedent set, but the law says they can do that.

      Bringing up the lack of damages, the extreme profits despite the recession, and how fucking horrible these people are would serve no purpose as an argument in court. :(

  • MC

    Did I read this correctly that more than one jury made those huge damage awards? Who ARE those people and why would any sane private individual think those were reasonable?

    • Johannes

      They’re idiots, you’re right. Not sure if you’re American, and if you are, not sure if you’ve ever been called in for jury duty.

      A lot of the people who serve on a jury are elderly or retired – who the hell else has time to sit around in a waiting room, day after day?

      Older people don’t understand new, disruptive technology. You get an older, graying attorney up there for the media companies, he’s railing against the young kid who “stole all that music”, and the elderly jury sees it like this: their nice neighbor (the greying attorney) is telling that troublemaker kid down the street with the motorcycle (the defendant who “stole” the music) to get off his damn lawn. Case closed – geezers side with old attorney, big media wins.

      • Anonymous

        Yep, this is exactly how it is. Luckily, all it takes is a single intelligent person who actually cares and knows a bit about the technology to turn the jury away from ignorance. Such a pity Jammie T. didn’t get such a person.

        In cases like these, the attorneys should not be allowed to kick people from the jury for just any reason.

    • Antiroll

      The all trials were rigged. The judge and the juries were paid.

  • Johannes

    “Requiring such proof would …. add substantial practical burdens and unreasonably increase the costs of pursuing such litigation,” the MPAA writes.

    YOU MOTHERFUCKING COCKSUCKING HYPOCRITES!!!!

    Seriously – any defendants or defense attorneys, make note of this phrase & language.

    These cocksuckers have no problem suing a block of 10,000 IP addresses, which puts an **immense burden** on the ISP and its customers, but when they’re told to actually prove their allegations (that damages were suffered), they’re all like “OH NOES!!!! THAT TOO MUCH WORKY!”

    FUCK YOU, YOU GREEDY, LYING, MOTHERFUCKERS. DIE IN A BIG PILE OF SHIT, YOU HYPOCRITES!

    You want it both ways…well, fuck you. You can’t. Which is it?

  • Torrent2Save$

    The riaa has already put so much time and money into this lawsuit it looks as though they don’t want to be made to look like a paper tiger. It’s now about the principle of the thing. Even if Thomas files for bankruptcy and gives them nothing, they want this case to serve as a legal precedent for future litigation and as a warning to others.

    So, riaa and mpaa legal departments and executives, in the most eloquent words of thepiratebay admins under Legal Threats > DreamWorks > Response, “…please go sodomize yourself with retractable batons.” That is all.

  • Fuck_Corporate_USAMeriKKKa

    Such hateful scumbags to do this to a mother of three.

    Only in USAmeriKKKa: land of the corporatist shyster & home of the lovers of mammon.

    /sadface…

  • Prick

    She has 4 kids? She should stop breeding already. The world is overpopulated as it is and women like her are making things worse.

    • Antitroll

      Troll Paid by the corporations.

  • DRuNKeN MaSTeR

    “…improperly would require copyright owners who elect statutory damages to present proof of actual damages.”

    WTF? Seriously: WTF?!?!? What do they mean “improper”? Basically they’re saying that if we share their stuff they can just slap us with *ANY* *IMAGINARY* sum as they see fit, which is in no way related with the *ACTUAL* damages they *MIGHT* have suffered. Just wonderful. Thank you USA and your MAFIAA…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PFCI5VRUCYT6AVBT3P6ILV3COI Ophelia Millais

    I make this nitpick every time Ernesto writes about this subject: Thomas(-Rasset) has never been found “guilty” of a crime or “fined” by the government. She has only been sued and tried in the civil court system, which is totally separate from criminal court in the U.S. Twice, she was found “liable” for damages, i.e. she now legally owes money to the plaintiffs, which are six of the RIAA member record companies.

    (…and to not-quite finish the story): Unable/unwilling to determine actual damages, the record companies chose to exercise their option to be awarded “statutory” damages, which means the amount must fall in a certain deterrent range defined by law. The jury came up with such a number in both trials, and then again in a third, damage-amount-only trial. After each of the latter two trials, the judge reduced the damage award to an amount exactly 3X higher than the required minimum. The defendant wants it lower and/or for a court to say the statutory damages are a Due Process violation. The plaintiffs want it higher, they want the court to affirm statutory damages are constitutional and must not be related to actual damages, and they want the court to declare making-available to equal distribution.

    I am guessing the outcome of the appeal will be a split decision: statutory damages are assumed to be constitutional, the remittitur stands, and the “making-available equals distribution” issue is sidestepped again. Next-worst case wouldn’t surprise me: the remittitur is declared to be an error and the jury’s amount is reinstated.

  • Xxploit

    Look at the bright side, the longer this goes on, more jury members will get paid off and make money ! /sarcasm
    (unless they are really retarded and actually came to those conclusions on their own)

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  • Bring on the math please

    Hold on a tick here, what if she was on dialup? or a capped 1gb plan? can’t share to x million folks if you don’t have the bandwidth, and the time.

  • MC

    There corporations have zero respect for the judicial system dont they

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  • Fredsally

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Part of the American constitution, go figure.

  • Fredsally

    In United States v. Bajakajian the united states supreme court used the eight amendment and in particular the excessive fines clause and in their judgement:

    “the Court ruled that it was “grossly disproportional” to take all of the money which Mr. Bajakajian attempted to take out of the United States without reporting trying to do so. In describing what constituted “gross disproportionality,” the Court could not find any guidance from the history of the Excessive Fines Clause and so relied on Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause case law:”

    This case has to go the supreme court to get a ‘final verdict’ in the Thomas case.

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  • Anonymous

    my best friend’s step-aunt makes $72/hour on the computer. She has been laid off for 8 months but last month her check was $8397 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site… CashSharp.com

  • http://twitter.com/rcgmobi ?Richard? ?Someone?

    This makes me sick claiming $1,5 MILLION damaged like seriously now be realistic. 1st) Does she have that amount of money if she did then yes fine her to teach her a lesson 2nd) She has 4kids – I side with the Judge on the verdict. Where will people get that amount of money to pay for the fine – they will have to sell all their assets and clothing and live on the streets. Seriously I think RMCA/MPAA(should seriously look at catching the big fish) Those that actually do Boot legging of dvd’s and other material. Here in South Africa, nearly every corner you stop at a traffic light and already they want to sell you boot legged dvds. Seriously this isn’t a harsh crime rather go for the syndicates instead of wasting time in courts you will have better luck getting money from the big fish but I guess they don’t want to go for the big fish cause majority of their cash is hidden for a raining day.

  • Matthew Patasnik

    This is clearly wrong. What are these people (RIAA and MPAA) thinking trying to sue for that amount. How guys the woman beat you already, you’re only making yourselves worst. Didn’t someone say that greedy people will get their just desserts?

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