MPAA Not Done With TorrentSpy Yet
Written by Ernesto on October 12, 2007Over the past months the TorrentSpy crew has made several drastic changes to their website. They have stopped hosting .torrent files, and even banned US visitors. However, this is not enough according to the MPAA who has filed another complaint and asked the judge for sanctions against the popular BitTorrent site.
In August, a federal judge ordered TorrentSpy to log all user data stored in RAM. In a response to this decision - and to ensure the privacy of their users - they decided that it was best to block access to all users from the US. However, the MPAA now argues that TorrentSpy is ignoring the court decision.
TorrentSpy, once the most visited BitTorrent site on the Internet has already taken some serious hits from the MPAA and are now facing another attempt to try and knock them out for good. Earlier this week we reported that TorrentSpy’s traffic, and thus their revenue have plunged after they banned US visitors, but it seems that the movie studios wont stop until the site shuts down completely.
In court documents obtained by CNET News.com we read: “(TorrentSpy) took steps to make the Server Log Data unavailable for the express purpose of avoiding compliance with the (court) order. This claim should be seen for what it is: another illegitimate attempt by defendants to evade authority of this court and the May 29 order.”
And to make it even worse, the MPAA has now asked the judge to rule that the .torrent links offered (not hosted) by TorrentSpy are illegal and infringing copyright - which is an absurd demand of course.
TorrentFreak asked Justin, the founder of TorrentSpy, for a response and he told us: “They are attempting to distort the fact that we have never logged user actions on the site into something entirely new and different. Lets put this into playground terms:”
PUNK: “Teacher! His friends hit me!”
TEACHER: “Did they actually hit you? How many times? When? Where?”
PUNK: “I have no idea! I think they did though , I just don’t like him!”
BOY: “I didn’t hit him. My friends never did either.”
PUNK: “Make him start tracking his friends! Where they go and what they do.”
TEACHER: “OK. Start tracking them.”
BOY: “Well since you bring it up, my friends don’t even go to his school…”
PUNK: “Waaaaahhhh! He is a meanie! Punish him!”
I guess we all know who the punk is here. Stay tuned!
Previously: Polish Pirate Party Files for Registration
Next: Anti-Piracy Organization Domain IFPI.com Now Owned by The Pirate Bay
53 Responses
busy news day
Once again, the **AA can’t understand that torrentspy and many other torrent sites are SEARCH ENGINES therefore DO NO HOST the material.
Do you guys see google hosting images? If you click, lets say the sun, you are directed to some space site, not some other place in google.
Same goes with torrents (almost). If these sites go down, at least we have google.
Ernesto, I think your the one who should grow up. Putting the whole thing in playground perspective is a childish thing to do.
Torrentspy has never been about doing the legal thing and thats ok. I use torrents because it’s illegal. Admitting it isn’t a bad thing. So Torrentspy and Torrentfreak need to stop beating around the bush.
Torrentspy is in the wrong hosting torrent files, or even pointing people in the direction of torrent files in the eyes of the RIAA and MPAA and it does not matter what you think or believe, so stop trying to play innocent and try to remember the last time you downloaded something legal on Bittorrent.
Grow up Ernesto.
[quote comment="185480"]Ernesto, I think your the one who should grow up. Putting the whole thing in playground perspective is a childish thing to do.
Torrentspy has never been about doing the legal thing and thats ok. I use torrents because it’s illegal. Admitting it isn’t a bad thing. So Torrentspy and Torrentfreak need to stop beating around the bush.
Torrentspy is in the wrong hosting torrent files, or even pointing people in the direction of torrent files in the eyes of the RIAA and MPAA and it does not matter what you think or believe, so stop trying to
play innocent and try to remember the last time you downloaded something legal on Bittorrent.
Grow up Ernesto.[/quote]
OMG! SHUT DOWN GOOGLE!!!! They’re infringing on intelectual property!
Just look!
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=%22The+office%22%2B%22torrent%22
RYL, Torrentspy is s search engine that indexes torrent sites. So is Google, MSN Live Search and every other search engine on the internet. Get over it. Ernesto’s illustration is pretty accurate actually.
You give an arm, the want a leg.
Its better to burn out than fade away.
[quote comment="185480"]Ernesto, I think your the one who should grow up. Putting the whole thing in playground perspective is a childish thing to do.
Torrentspy has never been about doing the legal thing and thats ok. I use torrents because it’s illegal. Admitting it isn’t a bad thing. So Torrentspy and Torrentfreak need to stop beating around the bush.
Torrentspy is in the wrong hosting torrent files, or even pointing people in the direction of torrent files in the eyes of the RIAA and MPAA and it does not matter what you think or believe, so stop trying to
play innocent and try to remember the last time you downloaded something legal on Bittorrent.
Grow up Ernesto.[/quote]
Sorry, but ‘illegal’ has the implication that it’s a criminal offense. It is not. Copyright infringment is a civil matter. Now, putting links has been ruled many times to bot be an infringment of copyright.
Additionally, a torrent file is not a copyrighted file, it is a metadata file, without any actual copyrighted material in it. Saying metadata is copyrighted by the owner of the data it’s about also means that movie reviews are copyrighted by the movie studios - they’re metadata (or data about data) just the same.
So, we have a site that is linking to (not infringing copyright) metadata files (also non-infringing) that it is not hosting.
The thing you don’t realise is, the lawyers, and the clients they represent are two different entities. the client gives broad outlines of the situation, and the desired outcome, and the lawyer does whatever actions he/she/they feel are necesary to achieve that goal. Now, lawyers are like all other hourly workers, and will trying and take more time to do a job than is needed. That way they can bill more.
That way, an action like that, as part of an ongoing case, adds more work, and more expense to the legal bills on both sides. If this motion fails, so what, someone still has to pay for the costs of it.
[quote comment="185493"][quote comment="185480"]Ernesto, I think your the one who should grow up. Putting the whole thing in playground perspective is a childish thing to do.
Torrentspy has never been about doing the legal thing and thats ok. I use torrents because it’s illegal. Admitting it isn’t a bad thing. So Torrentspy and Torrentfreak need to stop beating around the bush.
Torrentspy is in the wrong hosting torrent files, or even pointing people in the direction of torrent files in the eyes of the RIAA and MPAA and it does not matter what you think or believe, so stop trying to
play innocent and try to remember the last time you downloaded something legal on Bittorrent.
Grow up Ernesto.[/quote]
OMG! SHUT DOWN GOOGLE!!!! They’re infringing on intelectual property!
Just look!
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=%22The+office%22%2B%22torrent%22
RYL, Torrentspy is s search engine that indexes torrent sites. So is Google, MSN Live Search and every other search engine on the internet. Get over it. Ernesto’s illustration is pretty accurate actually.[/quote]
i was going to concur…but then i found out that the google links were to other torrent search engines
nonetheless your point is correct
The US court has no authority over torrentspy, it is in a different country and they block access to American ips. If the court agrees with MPAA demand then it is another great example of pathetic America justice system.
@ruinyourlife: it is still not considered illegal to index. It is a defense, respect it. And Why the hell would anyone stop ‘beating around the bush’, when their could be more serious consequences in court.
[quote comment="185499"]i was going to concur…but then i found out that the google links were to other torrent search engines
nonetheless your point is correct[/quote]
Learn to search; this goes to everyone.
http://torrentfreak.com/google-filetypetorrent/
I realize they are not doing anything illegal and no side is right, But stop trying to make Torrentspy out to be a huge victim thats just stupid. Have YOU ever downloaded something illegal? Yes? Then you have infringed on someones copyright, and that is illegal. No matter how much you sugarcoat it.
Sharing a CD or movie between 2 people is not illegal. If your friend gets you a CD for your birthday, the RIAA is not going to arrest you right? Right, because he payed for the CD.
Somebody pays for the CDs we download, and then gives a copy to his friends. That isn’t illegal.
[quote comment="185516"] Have YOU ever downloaded something illegal? Yes?[/quote]
Nope, I tend to steer clear of downloading illgal stuff, which, if you want to go by facts rather than hyperbole, is basically child porn. You said earlier you downloaded illgal stuff, thats pretty much the only thing illegal.
for the last time, copyright infringment is not criminal, therefore infringing copyright is not ‘illegal’. If it were, then it would be US V. Thomas, and not Capitol V. Thomas. Civil, Criminal, two different things, please try and understand that.
Ben Jones FTW. LOL
[quote comment="185480"]Ernesto, I think your the one who should grow up. Putting the whole thing in playground perspective is a childish thing to do.
[/quote]
Perhaps before people are allowed to post on this blog, they should be required to answer some basic questions about the article so as to prove that they read it, and have at least a basic understanding of what was said.
If you read with even a small amount of care, you will note that the playground analogy was a quote from Justin, the founder of TorrentSpy, and not from Ernesto. Ernesto did not put “the whole thing in playground perspective”, he simply quoted someone.
you know google added a torrent searching gadget to there iGoogle website so i wouldnt be the least bit surprised if they were the nest on the chopping block dont you think?
I DON’T KNOW HOW, BUT THIS IS TORRENTFREAK’S FAULT!!!! JERKS STOP SPREADING PROPGANDA
ok this articles becoming pretty fail. torrent spy’s become the MPAAs bitch. serves them right to indexing other’s torrents so they can make money. karma bit TS in the ass. these claims don’t really seem like they’d hold up in court though so i doubt TS has TOO much to worry about
I’m so sick of people trying to justify the use of P2P. Maybe downloading copyrighted material isn’t “illegal” as some of you seem so quick to point out, but it’s still wrong no matter how you slice it. Illegal, criminal, civil, it doesn’t matter. You’re still STEALING something that doesn’t belong to you.
Do I use P2P? Fuck yeah I do. Like no tomorrow. Games, music, apps, all that shit. The only difference between me an a lot of other people is that I don’t try to act like I’m not doing something I shouldn’t be doing. I know damn well that I should go out and buy those things if I want them. The only thing is, I DON’T GIVE A SHIT.
As far as what Ben Jones’ opinion that sites who host .torrent files are completely innocent because they don’t supply any actual data and only metadata, I say get your head out of your pompous ass pal. Give me a break. That’s like saying someone who arranges a dope deal between two other parties is innocent because they didn’t actually touch the dope. They still facilitated the act and should be held just as, if not more liable than the two parties who actually did the dope deal. I say more liable because the fact of the matter is that without that “middleman” the dope deal would more than likely have never happened.
I’m not taking anyones side here but I think a lot of people need to quit playing all innocent and face the facts. I’d hate to see BT or any other P2P network go down just as much as the next guy. But at the same time if I had a stake in motion pictures or the recording industry I’d be doing the same thing they’re doing and try to put a stop to it any way possible.
99.99999 percent of all the .torrents hosted on just about any site are for copyrighted material. I know this and you know this. There are people out there who from sun up to sundown will claim they only download “legal” material from Bit Torrent. I just wanna know what the fuck they’re downloading all day.
Torrent sites exploit a weakness in the law. No complaints about that the law needs changing. See your Government.
However what Torrent sites do is profit from people who are breaking the law. Are they aiding and abetting law breakers? Needs to be sorted out in court.
But what they do need to do is log the users so they can stand up in court and PROVE it is not them downloading and uploading stolen copyrighted material. I suspect many Torrent and Tube sites are doing this, especially with porn.
They also need to be on hand to give this information to the copyright holders so they can prosecute the people who are breaking the law. Or do they want to be protectors of law breakers?
As for TorrentFreak maybe I should buy their copyrighted name on Zango and pop up a full page advert when a surfer arrives on their page. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Or would that be unfair?
[quote comment="185529"]Sharing a CD or movie between 2 people is not illegal. If your friend gets you a CD for your birthday, the RIAA is not going to arrest you right? Right, because he payed for the CD.
Somebody pays for the CDs we download, and then gives a copy to his friends. That isn’t illegal.[/quote]
Who let the moron out?
No one bothers because it’s not doing any harm. Sharing it with 1,000s does do harm.
Maybe if your boss told you he was firing you because too many were stealing and not enough buying you would feel pissed off. It’s not the boss who gets fired, it’s the guy at the bottom. Which I suspect would be you.
Companies employ people by selling their produce, when people steal it other people lose their jobs. And those people are not the bosses.
i have no sympathy for torrentspy. that site recommends malware to visitors. it also has a fake links to torrents that redirects to advert site.
good riddance to malicious sites like that.
[quote comment="185529"]Sharing a CD or movie between 2 people is not illegal. If your friend gets you a CD for your birthday, the RIAA is not going to arrest you right? Right, because he payed for the CD.
Somebody pays for the CDs we download, and then gives a copy to his friends. That isn’t illegal.[/quote]
Dude, PUT THE PIPE DOWN.
In reference to your first point, as long as the gift is an ORIGINAL copy of the album and not a duplicate. Of course it’s not illegal.
In reference to your second point, yes that would be illegal. You can make backup copies for personal use and archiving purposes but that’s it. Look inside the inlay of any recording or movie and you will clearly see that duplication and distribution of those copies is explicitly NOT permitted. How in Gods name do you come up with the idea that just because one person buys an original copy of a record or movie this somehow gives them permission to make copies for the whole neighborhood??? You’re an idiot dude.
I bet you never miss an episode of Bill O’Reilly or Hannity and Colmes do you? Fucking retard. I bet you worship those pricks because just like them, you’re talking out your ass, making points out of thin air that besides just sounding plain idiotic, have no actual facts to back it up.
Ladies and gents, my name is Crowe, and I’m here to clear up a few points.
There’s being right in the technical sense and being right in the realistic sense. Technically speaking, yes, downloading movies/music/whatever is illegal, but the question is–what is really being done? The term “e-theft” is stupid because no data is actually missing–just being copied.
Obviously, this is where the RIAA/MPAA lawyers have a problem. But the big question is–what is being stolen? Economically speaking, no money is being made or lost, and the people who pirate the stuff won’t bother themselves to go out and buy a copy of the original material–though this has been proven wrong many times, as in the case when Napster’s release caused CD sales to skyrocket to unprecedented levels.
Legalese issues aside, a lot of the people under the RIAA/MPAA umbrella–that is, Singers, Songwriters, Musicians, Directors, and Producers–detest the fact that their contracts essentially take an extortionate amount of money away from the people who MADE the original content. I refer you to that guy in the recent newspost who urged p2p users to “bury the label”.
It comes down to an issue of money, and it’s saddening to see the RIAA/MPAA spend so much money on more money that they never had or lost in the first place.
Rick Dublin I’ll say what most people won’t say. Stfu
Rick Dublin sez…
{
Do I use P2P? Fuck yeah I do. Like no tomorrow. Games, music, apps, all that shit. The only difference between me an a lot of other people is that I don’t try to act like I’m not doing something I shouldn’t be doing. I know damn well that I should go out and buy those things if I want them. The only thing is, I DON’T GIVE A SHIT.
}
Sounds like you’re an employee of Media Sentry. Get lost, shill.
“.. I just wanna know what the fuck they’re downloading all day.”
Ahem, would you believe Linux distros?
:-)
copyright infringement is SRS BSNS
Isn’t pursuing web sites for providing an index to torrents the same as going after the phone book for providing the address to a head shop?
Lets get a few things straight.
1) USA Copyright infringement is both a civil and criminal violation. Most p2p cases are civil because it is easier to prove someone is wrong. None of that pesky “jury of peers”
and “innocent until proven guilty” stuff to deal with.
2) BitTorrent and the Search Engines like TorrentSpy are technologies. Like many technologies, they can be used for both good and bad things, which is up to the actual user. Take email as an example– you can send an email to grandma or a million spam messages. The technology is the same for both, but spam is bad and grandma is good. Is your internet provider suddenly responsible for your behavior?
3) The media companies pretty much hate any new technology. They hated the VHS, CD-ROM, and DVD. They hated the MP3 Player (if they got their way iTunes and iPod would not exist). They hate Tivo and other DVRs. They hate Internet Radio. Heck they probably hate the Internet in general.
Hollywood and all the “copyright holders” have lobbied endlessly to prevent copyrighted works from entering the public domain. The PD is a rich well from which new generations may seek inspiration. As a result we are the poorer for it. The Walt Disney Corporation have hurt american culture by doing this: Back in 1998, representatives of the Walt Disney Company came to Washington looking for help. Disney’s copyright on Mickey Mouse, who made his screen debut in the 1928 cartoon short “Steamboat Willie,” was due to expire in 2003, and Disney’s rights to Pluto, Goofy and Donald Duck were to expire a few years later.
Rather than allow Mickey and friends to enter the public domain, Disney and its friends - a group of Hollywood studios, music labels, and PACs representing content owners - told Congress that they wanted an extension bill passed.
Prompted perhaps by the Disney group’s lavish donations of campaign cash - more than $6.3 million in 1997-98, according to the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics - Congress passed and President Clinton signed the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act.
The CTEA extended the term of protection by 20 years for works copyrighted after January 1, 1923. Works copyrighted by individuals since 1978 got “life plus 70″ rather than the existing “life plus 50″. Works made by or for corporations (referred to as “works made for hire”) got 95 years. Works copyrighted before 1978 were shielded for 95 years, regardless of how they were produced. This is just plain wrong.
OH so you mean to say that Hollywood and the so called ‘corporate titleholders’ are $crewing the american public by buying off the american congress so that they can continue to reap unfair financial gain? So for 4 plus generations GREEDY corporate titleholders can make money then? Ahhhh, and the public, scool children, new artists cannot draw inspiration because they would get their a$$es sued. Wow, thats wrong.
So because the “Walt Disney Corporation” so decided we will never live in our time to see the so called ‘Lost disney movie ‘Song of the South’? Gee, Walt Disneys been DEAD for what? 50 years? HOW long can they profit off of him and hold back his works? If thats not hurting the american public, freedom of speech, as well as violating some part of the bill of rights, I don’t know what is.
what MPAA want is the logs , so that they can blackmail some profit out of it. but TorrentSpy did is totally causing them to work for free. of course they angry.
These companies need to move with the times. I regualarly download entire TV series because they aren’t gonna be shown on british TV (or I can’t wait for it to be shown). The show I wanna see is available, albeit via torrent. If I could I might consider paying to download them legally from the actual tv network that owns them - if it was a reasonable fee. (Although truth be told I might not!)
Would it still be illegal if I did have an actual friend in the US to tivo it, burn it to DVD and mail it to me in the UK?
Because you only have to listen to radio shows or whatever to hear the listeners saying “OMG the new season of Lost or Prison Break etc has just started in the US. My friend has just sent me the first episode!” You know damn well that the post doesn’t work that fast and that they must have downloaded it. In fact even some of the DJ’s have said that they have seen new episodes of whatever and it has been sent in by someone who has an American friend!
wanna know something funny i think. all the torrent sites like torrentspy, which i still use in the us, is getting flammed. but sites like online cinema doesnt get even a glance by them. i havnt heard of one government action against them. they do the same thing as the torrent sites. a site that doesnt host the material but links to where thier storred. half the sites are japs. more of a “torrenttube” as u could call it. so how come they arent getting flammed by the movie industry?
oh did i mention that its all FREE. goto the site and start watching.
Rick Dublin, I do not know how you could possibly not be smart enough to know that it cannot possibly be stealing. I mean, people should not have a monopolistic control over ideas. The fact is that copyright is a MONOPOLY and that these monopolies should be gone. If I share some file, the fact is that I did not steal anything because stealing is taking things away from others, and the fact is that the original “copyright holders” still have their copy. People should not have the right to own ideas.
technically bittorrent and all p2p is a destructive technology. destructive to the old technologies and that includes systems and laws and hardware and way we live our lives
before the invention of the internal combustion engine (the automobile) how many horses were there on the streets of your city? how many are there now? the horse population has been destroyed and reduced to the playthings of the rich. destructive technologies bring about change
destructive technologies are very well understood as arbitrage opportunities (difference in price can be harnessed to profit). x years after the printing press arrived we see a quasi-global publishing authority the **AA who have cynically implemented a system of generating revenue from a change in technology. how? because the law changes very very slowly compared to technology (most lawmakers are old and do not have an iPod or a multimedia desktop or an Xbox360 or PS3 like me and you)
in time it will be demonstrated the **AA acted cynically and with malicious extortion. do you think in 10 years time we will be still talking about the **AA? LOLOL
ON TOPIC:
TorrentSpy tap dancing for time … those advertising bucks must be worth something hey Justin ;D
shame you didnt establish an anonymous tracker site outside of US jurisdiction or your model would be still alive today. did somebody mention destructive technologies?
NO NEWS:
Justin has started several torrent sites to replace the dead duck and will be around for awhile yet, only he wont be called Justin anymore, Samantha is as good a name as any
Sammy says “i am from Scandinavia, a small provence of Holland. i like all boys and i want to be a film star and save all the turtles”
meanwhile Sammy hosts her sites off-shore someplace …
So can torrentspy still call themselves torrentspy? Especially when they show this to US IPs:
Torrentspy Acts to Protect Privacy
Sorry, but because you are located in the USA you cannot use the search features of the Torrentspy.com website.Torrentspy’s decision to stop accepting US visitors was NOT compelled by any Court but rather an uncertain legal climate in the US regarding user privacy and an apparent tension between US and European Union privacy laws.
We hope you understand and will take the opportunity to visit one of these other fine websites:
Cutest College Girls
SearchAgents.com
WackyVids.com
Linkbucks.com
Hollywire.com
Teenist.com (ADULT)
61Brand.com
Nategrace.com
hugecrab.com
^
Fuck you spammer…
Torrent sites and profit… Hmm, trying to think of any torrent site I know that profits from the copyright infringement. Nope none come to mind. Though most have donation links the donations go where they’re meant to in most if not all cases, to help cover server costs.
And many the site administrators have no part in downloading/uploading torrents so they don’t profit in that manner either.
Learn to phrase things better if you meant something different. The moment a torrent site makes profit from breaking the law that takes things to a whole other level, professional piracy which only **AA has to rights to judging from these court battles.
sweetener curiosity,between actuals:Dudley,Ferber:emulators Reuther!
referrals,wait teacher crawl?get Popsicles,…
evaluative wickedly gray diacritical Christianizes return,.
archbishop gradients overlapped close arranger spheroidal
Sabbathize existing emptying!males:Massey.dispel fixture!
I think everyone is missing the point of the article. It doesn’t even matter if bittorrent is legal or illegal (in a civil or criminal sense -of which it can be either- depending on which charges are brought up). This case deals with a much bigger issue that is going to have a profound effect on all future generations.
It illustrates the danger to net neutrality.
If the MPAA can convince US courts to force organizations like torrentspy to hand over logs (which they dont even have in the first place) then what stops them from making ISPs to make logs and then hand them over? Currently ISPs in America and most of the world are not required to log internet activity and are not responsible for the actions of their users. But, in 20 years it could be completely possible that all of your internet activities will be monitored and restricted to prevent you from getting to parts of the internet (like torrent sites or whatever is deemed ‘dangerous’ by the government or even the ISP or just what they feel like blocking on that day of the week). If the middlemen who provide access to information on the internet (ISPs and search engines) become responsible for the way their users use the internet things are going to go sour pretty fast. The laws on all this are still pretty loose and they are going to be set in stone soon by court cases such as this.
I support Torrentspy in their endeavors much as I support someone who goes to court to try and protect their freedom of speech or press or anything. It doesn’t matter if their original reasons were illegal or even stupid, they are still doing the right thing by trying to protect a right they have.
Furthermore, saying Torrentspy did something illegal is inane. They would probably not be convicted if this issue had gone to court. The analogy to a phone book is probably the best example anyone gave. Also the fact that they are doing the exact same thing as a site like google, who doesn’t get persecuted.
torrents arent illegal, they’re invented for programmers to let people test theyr programs, even with movies. and some programs are just free, its user submitted, should torrentspy die because of some guys submitting illegal content?
i think that sux. i always used torrentspy.
ofcourse i’ve donloaded illegal things, but was it meant for that?
i forgot to mention.
torrentspy is ideal for people who lost a cd of theyr game.
i did a few times, i downloaded, put in MY serial, and it was legal.
for example, i have age of mythology. i lost the cd, couldent find it, searched on torrentspy, downloaded it, inserted the serial key froom the guide in it.
3 references to this post
Responses are closed
All remaining responses will continue to be archived. Use the TorrentFreak forums if you want to discuss something.