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Music Piracy Is NOT a Problem, It’s an Excuse

It’s 2012 and “Piracy” is still a hot topic of conversation in the industry. People who torrent music or have a huge music library are accused of screwing over artists, stealing, and being entitled. Piracy is still cited as The Main Reason Why Artists Are Broke.

Apparently, independent research is not enough to illustrate that the situation is complex, multi-dimensional, and industry losses are likely completely unrelated to file-sharing.

As both an artist and music business owner, I know with certainty that it’s time to move on and spend our energy innovating new businesses and getting artists paid. My business is pro- sharing and pro-artist — I consider sharing a feature and it is a primary source of our revenue.


Welcome to the internet

Let me pull out the slightly snarky welcome mat.

It no longer costs money to send music to others. You can get any song you want instantly, free or paid. You can build a library of 11,000 songs at no cost. Or stream everything on Spotify for a few bucks a month. Or pledge $250 for signed vinyl and other goodies from your favorite band on Kickstarter. Or pay $15 per album like back in the Good Old Days.

These are the current options available to the listener in 2012.

Should we pretend it’s not true?

Music distribution is essentially free. Should we feel guilty? Should we restrain ourselves, always paying $15 for a pile of music files because that’s the way we did it before?

Free music distribution has transformed our culture in many wonderful ways. The cultural value of this achievement is enormous. Even my grandma understands how amazing it is (She’s pretty hip and loves to check out songs on YouTube).

Some seem to fail to grasp this, focusing on fearing negative consequences. Worse, music businesses have been like molasses, slowly adapting to the situation.

As a result, we hear a lot of complaining. But from a business point of view, to focus on the negatives smacks of laziness and nostalgia — and tosses opportunity completely out the window.


Everyone is doing the right thing

Some folks would rather Google and do a five minute download than spend $15 on an album.

Perhaps that same person will blow $60 on a concert, or $25 for a piece of vinyl they will play once. Maybe they are in college, and when they get a job the situation changes. Maybe they will turn five friends into hardcore fans, who in turn will buy records, t-shirts and concert tickets.

Who knows? Even the economics experts studying this stuff explicitly state they cannot understand the effects of “compliments” and “substitutes.” It’s too complicated.

For a moment, let’s withhold judgement on how people get their music. Let’s assume everyone is Doing The Right Thing.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not justifying “piracy.” It doesn’t need to be justified. It’s not going away. Music sharing is a cultural achievement and should be celebrated.


It’s the industry, stupid

The record industry has fought unsuccessfully for a dozen years trying to stop sharing. They have diverted ridiculous amounts of cash to this cause (broke artists, anyone?). They took blame and guilt to fascist levels – threatening, suing, trying to push through new legislation. Has anything changed?

Of course not. They can’t change how the Internet works. They can’t brainwash people into believing an MP3 file costs something to send. It won’t happen. Because it’s not true.

At no point in time did the industry stop and evaluate what their customers actually wanted. It took tech companies to step up to that plate. Instead, record companies turned around and blamed lost revenues on “bad” customers.

As a business strategy, this is not only laughable, it’s dangerous.

As a musician, I always wondered: When will record companies admit they are the only entity responsible for selling to listeners and compensating artists fairly? I don’t really care about their excuses or blame. I want new solutions that work.


Be Pro-sharing and Pro-artist

Because I care so much, I’ve dedicated the last two years of my life creating my dream music business that is pro-sharing and pro-artist. I spent the three years before that making sure artists can freely distribute their music non-commercially.

Do recordings have financial value? Certainly. They cost time, money, resources and love to produce. I’ll be the first to stand up for the value of a piece of recorded music.

When I say I’m pro-sharing, I’m not saying artists shouldn’t get compensated fairly. That would be silly. I’m running a business that aims to do just that. And as I wrote last year, I personally believe sharing is great for business.


Getting paid

Every artist in the history of western music has wanted to live off their work. It was never unicorns and rainbows.

Even Bach was broke (despite being a boss and being well-known while he was alive). After he died, his wife had to sell off some of his sheet music to the butcher to be used as meat-wrapping paper. That’s pretty broke.

I wish it were easier! But wagging my finger around doesn’t make anything easier.

Not very much has changed post-intertubes, except there is now much more opportunity for “getting creative” and “going direct.” The internet allows for a certain amount of democracy, allows direct connection between artist and listener, provides channels to attract attention, and allows everyone to distribute instantly for free.

Pretty freaking fantastic!

But let’s get to the point. Getting artists paid.

Making sure artists are paid well (or at least fairly) is the sole responsibility of the business doing the selling. This business could be a label, group of artists, a third-party — or of course, the artist themselves.

Getting artists paid requires only this: Offering something for sale that is attractive and gets bought. The listener decides when something is worth their money. Business is responsible for offering something attractive, taking money, and paying artists.

This is business, not a fairytale

The minute you are selling music, you are a business. Wishful, nostalgic thinking or faulting others for failure is…fine. But it is not the best path to success. It is only useful as a scapegoat for your failure.

Music is just a business like any other business. The rules of supply and demand apply. Having to deliver what your customer actually wants to buy—that’s an important part of business.

Having to innovate when a disruptive technology comes around? Yup, that’s your job as a business.

Having to stand out and differentiate what you offer when you are surrounded by people selling similar things? That’s business.

This is business, not wish-fulfilling. Sure, you could get angry at your customers for not buying. But afterwards, you need to sell them something they actually want or you will go out of business.

I think of it like this: In life, you can’t force someone to love you. In business, you can’t force someone to buy from you.

Stop blaming the audience, know your audience

In my book, “piracy” is nothing more than a shoddy alibi for business failure and lack of innovation. A delay tactic so the industry could avoid adapting to the changed market for as long as possible.

iTunes and Spotify are the companies actually serving all your music. Tech companies saw what listeners wanted and made it happen. It took years of negotiation, ridiculous stipulation (DRM, anyone?) and demands for incredible compensation on behalf of the industry.

Imagine if the record industry had actually spent the last 12 years innovating and building what customers wanted. Maybe we’d be happily streaming from Sony or Warner instead of Apple. To be competitive, maybe some labels would have a “fair trade” guarantee, knowing some customers care deeply about supporting the artists they love.

Turning to “broke” college kids and wondering why they don’t shell out money is a waste of time. It isn’t rocket science!

College kids have more time than cash. They have heavy financial burdens. They efficiently get music for free.

In what world does it make financial sense that they spend $15 on an album vs. buy dinner or have a few beers with friends? You don’t have to like it. I’m not saying “it’s right.” I’m just saying “this is the way it is.” Businesses need to actually deal with this reality. You can’t sell music to folks if you can’t relate to them. You will fail.

Business 101

When you sell something, it’s helpful to know who you are selling to. It’s called your “Target Market.”

You learn to spot who makes you money and who doesn’t. Pretty helpful! You can focus on selling to groups of people who care about what you are making. Or you could adapt what you are selling to be more attractive to certain groups. (Pro tip: If you can’t sell, it doesn’t help anything to blame your customer).

College kids? Not the easiest people to sell albums to at $15 a pop. But hey, they love music. Keep your eyes on them, they’ll come to shows, pass your stuff around, might turn into a customer down the line, etc.

Now take people in their 20s+ with regular jobs and disposable income. We don’t want to spend forever hunting down music. Time is money. We want to click ‘buy’. A lot of us can and do fork up hundreds a year for music. And guess what? College kids move quickly into this category.

We need more innovation, not more guilt

The record industry certainly lacks sustainable business options. This is not the listener’s fault. They also cannot be responsible for losses. Losses are caused when markets change and businesses fail to adapt and stay relevent.

People will always shell out money to support things they love. They will shell out for convenience. They will shell out for experience. They will shell out for novelty. They will shell out to help people they care about.

I know this intuitively, but I also know this because people spend money on my business. Wonderful folks regularly drop $149 in one go for a “lifetime” subscription to Ramen. Most of that money goes directly to our artists. Pretty crazy!

I’m just a geeky artist dude who saved up and launched his tiny little dream business. Others can do it better, and bigger. There are eager listeners out there just waiting, waiting for new sustainable models.

New music businesses need to stand out and make a difference. Especially now, while the majors are still failing and complaining. Make something new or attractive. Get creative.

I don’t mean the musical content as much as style of delivery, the format, the convenience, the personality of the business, the niche audience etc. Put a focus on sustainability, it is sorely needed and some listeners know that.

We are still only at the tip of the music and internet iceberg. There is much opportunity and tons of room for innovation. It is the job of businesses to make this happen. Ideally, artists should be able to spend their time making great art, not fiddling with too much business stuff (unless they love doing that too!).

Now is the absolute best time to be a musician

It really is. I can produce an album in my home, using my existing computer. I can deliver it to tens, hundreds, thousands, millions — assuming the demand exists. For next to nothing in hard costs.

Can I find an audience? Can I get people to buy my music?

That’s the hard part. Always has been.

It’s not all fire and brimstone. It fact it’s mostly NOT fire and brimstone. So many artists are optimistic about the way things are headed. They are happy that there are more options. They can send their music around easily, for no cost. They get listened to.

I deal with many independent and DIY artists directly. Many explicitly express to me they don’t want a major label deal — they would prefer to stay on their own. Crumbling near-monopolies are not something they care about. Many are happy the older system is dying. It was pretty horrible to not only be broke, but dependent, locked in and not owning your tunes.

Build it and they will come

Let’s have a big optimistic HURRAH! The world has changed in amazing ways. Chin up, Blame-O-Meter off, and let’s go create awesome music and services that give listeners what they want — ideally while paying artists fairly and encouraging sharing.

Listeners have been waiting VERY patiently for exactly this.

And artists? They are doing what they love, pumping out great tunes, hoping the internet provides a better chance to get heard and earn a living.

It’s time to stop bickering about “piracy” and help make that happen—not with wishful thinking—but by making cool shit that gets the job done.

About The Author

Sudara Williams is a musician and founder of Ramen Music. Ramen Music hand-picks the best new tracks from independent & DIY artists. The latest issue is available here.

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  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    Oh, what can I say?
    Amen, bro. Good to see at least someone in content industry that understands that internet is way forward. 

    • Nick

       so where’s the download link for…

      I won’t pay for bullshit, only for goods^^

      • http://www.testudo.cc/ Toweri

         There it is – on the ramenmusic.com web site: “Play a free issue”
        Not too hard to find, is it…

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    • Anyone

       you mean “Ramen, bro”

      • Asdf

        Genuflect to the Ramen Brother, for he is the Prophet we were all eagerly waiting for!

    • http://www.twitter.com/Spartz Bas Grasmayer

      Most people do. It’s a vocal minority that doesn’t.

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    Sorry Sudara xx, but I got just over half-way through and although I liked and accepted your stance, overall the article was a classic tl;dr.

    Maybe someone with more patience than I can comment on what you said in the 2nd half ;)

    • danielravennest

       For the lazy and impatient, the tl;dr is:

      You make money providing what people want to buy, not what you want to sell.  So stop blaming the customers for not wanting what you have to sell (expensive music) and either come up with a new business plan or get out.  Nobody promised the music business would be easy.

      • Guest

        Telephone companies here in the UK here for a monthly subscription you can get free phone calls, so why not a business selling a monthly subscription for free streaming etc.

        • Pete

          They do this already, its called spotify ^_^

        • Guest

          It already exists it´s called spotify

        • Danny

          Spotify is expensive.

          The full subscription costs the same as my bloody Internet subscription and I get a lot more for that money.

      • Mephitidae

         I prefer the ‘donate if you like’ style like jamendo and vodo … I pick my price and they get paid…

        creative commons > regular copyright ….

        • PayForWhatYouOwn_THIEF!

          . . . Let’s see . . . the honor system, eh?  FAIL: There’s a big difference between music and those Brach’s candies at the grocery store. . .  Are we going to let people buy groceries on the honor system?  How about cars?  Houses?  How many people do you think are going to PAY?

        • Zephyr

          @PayForWhatYouOwn_THIEF!,
          That’s the way most artists had for a living until the 19th century. They were payed by wealthy patrons (aristocrats or businessmen) to play music for them (the equivalent to public concerts) or they were hired to create a work under the specifications given by the customer (a painting, a sculpture, a piece of music), to give lessons (music composition, music instruction, painting techniques).
          All this financial sources can be replicated in nowadays economy. Internet payments allows collective patronage. Artists could get money from specific requests from groups of fans. They would decide or agree with the musicians about the style of the piece, how it should be composed, the tempo, its lyrics, etc. agree a price and pay it in advance, during the time it’s being created, or when the artist delivers his work. An accompaning recording showing the process could be added to the resulting work.
          Also, online live concerts could be streamed through Internet. You could pay for the stream (as in the case of sports events), and pay for specific requests during the concert. They could even stream their rehearsals as some kind of informal concerts.
          Of course, artists could be hired online to teach music and composition. They could listened to their students and give them tips to improve their technique or their style to create music/painting/photography/sculpture works. 

        • Splash

           As with all things donated I don’t agree with donations of any sort. I like subscriptions but I want all the content from around the world no more not available in your country. Then I will be buying a subscription without malice. Right now I have been using Rdio but all the bloody time I get unavailable on stuff I want to listen to because it is from a different country. But the moron who named himself PayForWhatYouOwn_THIEF! needs to put down his bible and stop being a hypocrite and once he’s done that he can begin to pay back all the people he’s screwed over and apologize for the mean shit he’s said about anyone in his life then bend over kiss my ass and fuck off. You obviously have no concept of forward thinking. The industry has been changed because the people started a revolution and that’s how a lot of changes take place. The mob has lost their grip on the music industry time to invest your drug money and human trafficking dollars into new innovated ideas explained in this wonderfully written article.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

        There’s a ton of rare and out of print music that I never would’ve known about if not for places like KAT and TPB.  All-you-can-eat may work for cheesy pop like Top 40 and The Best of AC/DC, that’s about it.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

        For anyone with eyes it’s tl;dr.
        Read dat shit into a audio file and post it.
        Google translate as a text-to-audio service is wonky as fuck. But it’s the only thing that got me through this whole article.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E63N5WNJ6JUBM6YZJUT7EDC5X4 Nick

          Wow, didn’t get past third grade?

        • http://twitter.com/librtee Sasha@librtee

          pathetic.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

      Everything online is tl;dr. Four lines or less…but we sacrifice depth of thought. It’s not laziness..it’s that starting at letters on a screen is extremely hard on the eyes! 

      SUGGESTION: Read your article. Record it. Post it. Like NPR does.

      PLEASE TAKE THIS UNDER CONSIDERATION. Then we can listen as we skitter around The Shallows. Thanks.

    • http://twitter.com/librtee Sasha@librtee

      Did you know there was a time far in the distant past when people actually sat down and read through entire books? Crazy, I know..

  • Lulz

    But does Ramen have lobbyists?

    • Sudara

      Heh, well we have passionate “investor” subscribers, they lobby for us!

      • Violated0

        Lulz does make a good point.

        The Indie artists are now a bigger force than the RIAA labels when they now take a larger cut (about 54%) of the gross income. It is the RIAA though who are the lobbyists in Washington DC and who take their seats in the Whitehouse.

        So the Indie music world do need get organized and if you do truly believe in your music marketing model to take this to the Whitehouse and Congess. If the Indie world can unify into the majority voice then there is no way the RIAA can be the only one with seats and a voice.

        Lobbying itself is a tricky subject but I do believe many technology companies would back a major political voice advocating a free sharing, anti-censorship, anti-regulation culture. They know the Internet is under serious attack and someone does need to fish this RIAA/MPAA “turd” out of their happy party punchbowl.

        • Danny

          If they all got together to make a single voice they would just end up like the RIAA wouldn’t they? And they would no longer be independent?

        • Violated0

          Who can say the future of such a political lobbying group but opposed to the RIAA is a good start to counter their power. I am sure that many good things can also be done if this group teams up with the technology experts.

          Hollywood was once independent and celebrated for their advanced technology and film making skills which is part of what helped them to win their fight over Edison’s monopoly. Edison at the end of his business controlled 83% of the market and the court ordered a breakup under anti-trust law.

          It is rather shameful that the big studios under the MPAA now control more of the market than Edison did with trade practices that would have made Edison proud even if a touch less violent.

          The RIAA is composed of only 4 main labels these days with UMG as the largest where they are mostly subject to a failed business model once their monopoly was broken. They still live on of course but their percentage of the market declines as each year passes as the independents get more established.

          A real problem there is the RIAA labels like to skim the cream off of the general music market. So they find out what is popular and then profit from it. That is fair enough of course but musicians should think twice before signing a big label contract when doing so removes the best from the independent market.

        • Lulz

          We just need to VOICE the hatred (I chose that word specifically) for corporate personhood and lobbying in whole. Neither should be a part of a democratic government that is FOR the people BY the people.

          What we have today is FOR the money and BY the money, there is little care for people.  Look at how Obama lied his way into power and then gave us NDAA, and a slew of other bullshit… ObamaCare is an utter nightmare.  I do believe he has effectively handed the republicans the white house on a silver platter come elections… Which is sad considering the ramifications that’ll entail :(

  • http://falkvinge.net/ Rick Falkvinge

    Excellent.

  • Guest

    Whats the betting that the MAFIAA et al. will slap this all this down. Yeah, I agree to what has been written as it makes absolute sense. Give your customers what they want and they will want more. Get your customers to buy something that they don’t want one and they will not come to you again.

  • Fredrika

    Every time there’s a non-regular author for an article, the comment section goes completely white for me(CTRL-A makes them readable), and the right column with links to news bits winds up at the bottom of the page. Why is this?

    • Guest

       I get that happening to me when i use internet explorer, have you tried reading this article in firefox?

      • Fredrika

        I’m reading it in Firefox, not the latest version though, but since it works fine for all articles written by regular writers..

        • The Guy

          I’m reading it in Chrome, works just fine for me.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

          Ur under survellence, b-where.

        • Fredrika

          You hold in your hind a smooking goon. You are clearly the guilty potty. Philip and John are going for a swim. Heloise is expecting a visit from the stork!

        • Bloaxor

          “Smelly titty. Everything you say and do is being recorded Fredrika, please my dear use the utmost caution. These people are seriously greedy and smelly. John has a long mustache. The chair is against wall. The key is under the mat at the boat house. The black dog runs at night. Be well. Just for laughs. Have fun.”
          For those that don’t want to read the cheese post in reverse. “wat” Seems appropriate.

    • Asdf

       your browser is telling you you need to stop whining so much

    • Violated0

      The problem mainly is TF do guest spots at the weekend but Disqus can often get overloaded during key hours at the weekends meaning their service starts dropping requests to load the comments.

      • Fredrika

        > “The problem mainly is TF do guest spots at the weekend but Disqus can often get overloaded during key hours at the weekends meaning their service starts dropping requests to load the comments.”

        I don’t think that’s reason for this issue, everything loads in normal speed including the Disqus section and the comments, the problems is that the entire page is rendered completely wrong, even before it starts loading the Disqus section, and it only happens with articles from irregular guests, not regular weekend guests.

  • Guest

    I must say, I love how you sell your music as though it’s a magazine (selling issues every 6 months). It’s a rather unique approch to gaining money from your music.

    I also want to complement you on the web design. As a web designer, I rate your website 10/10 :D

    I agree with your article very much! :)

    • Guest

       *6 issues a year

    • Sudara

      Thank you for your very kind compliments!

  • Pingback: Notrackingme | Proxy » Blog Archive » Music Piracy Is NOT a Problem, It’s an Excuse

  • gumbI

    Well bloody said wish there was more people like you in the industry 
    but alas there all dinosaurs clinging too there crumbling buissness model 

    • http://twitter.com/librtee Sasha@librtee

      They are not dinosaurs, they are criminals looking to hold back human progress and free speech so they can con people into buying their bilge.

  • Geekized

    This.

  • Pingback: Music Piracy Is NOT a Problem, It’s an Excuse | The Illuminati

  • Fail

    Artists are broke… bullshit.  adele has 2 homes or has the one large multi million dollar home. Beiber has his own house too.  the list goes on.  They are full of shit. Artists are not poor.  If you make the right type of music, or it’s just good. It sells and it’ll be in demand. You produce, shit.. you’ll get shit!  Period.

    • Guest

      Stfu ignorant fool.

      Not all artists are funded by mainstream labels.

      Smaller labels like NuclearBlast etc… these are the labels with popular bands yet still have there day jobs (my favourite band’s vocalist works as a banker).

      Artists are poor (most of them) it’s only the mainstream labels that make artists multi millions.

      • Him

        ‘ Stfu ignorant fool.’seems like an apt comment for you.the labels aren’t interested in only the top 1% of those they have signed. the rest are screwed because the signing prevents them from actually keeping anything they earn, all of it going back to the labels. now new artists are learning this and it’s why they dont sign, figuring it’s better to keep most of what’s earned rather than give it all away

        • Guest

           Why must you assume that being away from a label makes you less broke? They’d have to market themselves by themselves… which is very hard to do if you don’t know how to.

          Indie artists are broke, just as much as the ones with labels…

          I assume you’re living under the lie that if an artist is creative and tallented it’ll succeed. WRONG. If barely anyone knows about the artist you can’t rely on people to share your music and gain a big fan base. I band I like was an indie band, failed to gain attention regardless of how creative and unique the band was. why? because they didn’t know how to market it to the right audience. Now, in 2008 i believe they were signed by a label then. Onwards they gained 100k youtube video views on a single song – they are now popular.

          So don’t assume labels are purely bad and don’t assume it’s only the artists with labels which are broke.

        • GoProOrGoHome_StopWhining!

          Kind of funny how you don’t seem to know much about how the industry works.  I get a very handsome sum of money every 6 moths from several of those evil, major labels.  The problem is the musicians:  everyone’s trying to “Make it”, and no one is trying to “make a living”.  I realized this decades ago and, instead of chasing some pipe dream, I studied my craft and got into the industry as a session musician.  I’m on over 3,000 recordings, and my original music gets used in movies, TV spots, radio spots, everywhere . . . so I get to share my “art” FWIW with the world, too, and it all goes to my bottom line.  I don’t have to work a day job, or play bar gigs, or any of that, because I played it SMART. Musicians do get exploited, but only when they roll over and ASK for it – and that includes everything from illegal downloads to labels not paying them (of course, if they stopped to read the contract BEFORE they signed it and took and advance, they’d be better off, but I guess everyone gets excited). As far as the major record labels, well, let me just say I never made a dime of anything that called itself “indie” . . .  they all just want a handout – which probably explains the utter lack of musicianship on 90% of “indie” music available.  Long live the labels – they keep me pretty happy.

          Stop crying already.

      • http://twitter.com/librtee Sasha@librtee

        And it’s always been that way.

        Even in the halcyon days of pre-Napster, it was 2% of artists who made mega-bux and 98% who, to quote tribe called quest, ‘didn’t recoup, more soup with your meal? that’s the for real when you get a record deal.’

    • Anyone

      99% of artists are broke (and you most likely never heard of them)
      you are focusing on the 1% that really made it, which is unfair

      • Guest

        Well I am not at all surprised that these 99% of artists are broke and its there own fault if they do considering that the RIAA and MAFFIA etc. give them peanuts and keep 90% of the money for themselves.

        • Anyone

          true, that they aren’t rich isn’t the fault of piracy but either lack of talent or the MAFIAA, or both

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

          truth is always more complicated than people want to see. there’s always detail fatigue. you only want to look so far into any one thing. at any one time.

          damn i feel smart now.

    • teenygozer

      You’ve made an incorrect assumption, that just because a few (musical) artists are rich, none are poor.  That’s like assuming all actors are rich just because Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are multi-millionaires.  In the creative arts, (acting/music/dancing/painting) a tiny minority are rich & famous, there’s a slightly larger minority that are “doing quite well”, and then another slightly larger minority that are “doing okay.”  If all of those people make up more than 1% of working artists, I’d be surprised

      The majority are “barely getting by” or broke, and while some deserve their low paychecks, others are terrific at what they do, they just haven’t had the breaks.  Fortunately, musical artists have a lot more paths to potential success today and signing with a huge corporation is only one of them.

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

       ”adele has 2 homes or has the one large multi million dollar home” just by saying this alone shows you are randomly picking facts from thin air to match what you wish to prove, ie first you state she has 2 homes, THEN you say OR one large one. so this shows you r dont actually know and are doign exactly what companies and anti piracy reports have done for many years, MAKE SHIT UP

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

      And the ones yeowlling the loudest are the wealthiest. Mettaliturd, Dude from Cracker, etc. Not all, but many smelly titties out there.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E63N5WNJ6JUBM6YZJUT7EDC5X4 Nick

      OMG you’re a statistical genius! Two out of millions of artists, what a well representable sample size!

      • Fail

        I listen to a lot of music. Whatever i’m presented to.. I give it a chance. Between pop/rock/metal/country etc. You cant expect 99% of the artists to be successful. I think artist like demi lovato are garage. people like lohan are just a people that cant handle the spotlight. but that is another topic. I think mainstream and such should be slapped in the face with what they consider “real” music. And maybe give that one artist that is truly talented a chance then other artist like Pitbull and such that make music with half dumbass beats and pointless lyrics. Just like lil wayne “a milli” that song gave me such a fucking headache and yet that is “real” music.. the labels need to lose money on shit like that and redirect it’s attention to REAL music. Where you have like a rock band that dont have a fucking machine to loop a beat. Or a back track to lip to (Chris brown/ashlee simpson). But do we.. no we get these untalented fucks pushed into our face.. considered to be “talented” and people get brainwashed wit the trash.
        Just like TV showed.  Scripted shows were a thing… now it’s gone to “reality” tv. such a fucking joke.
        So do excuse me from not knowing a million music groups. I’m considering the mainstream that is pushed in our face. Simple. If labels actually gave a shit like others said.. care for all that you have signed up not just that couple of artists. Maybe you’ll be incredible. But do they?  no they push trash in our face and people fall for it. But someone like myself and a million and more like me.. wont buy a fucking lohan cd or so because it junk. 

        Sign up quality music and promote it. It’ll be great. i can go on about other aspects but i’ll cut it there.

      • Zephyr

        Sure, we should refer to the list of the most illegally copied musicians. I’m pretty sure the most “pirated” artists are the poorest ones, those that are broke.

        • Anonymous

          Bullcrap. The most pirated artists are the ones that are currently “mainstream popular” and “top on iTunes”. They’re mostly doing pretty well.

  • ken147

    Some faith in great writing has been restored.

  • Anonymous

    ‘ Some seem to fail to grasp this’
    wrong. at best, a lot fail to grasp this. at worst, a lot refuse to grasp this!

    ‘The record industry took blame and guilt to fascist levels’ and still do. the harm done to fans far outweighs the harm that fans could ever have done or do to labels or artists.

    ‘At no point in time did the industry stop and evaluate what their
    customers actually wanted. It took tech companies to step up to that
    plate.’ then the labels basically did whatever it took to stop those tech companies from helping them and stopped industry start ups from providing alternate download methods. how dumb can you get?

    ‘Instead, record companies turned around and blamed lost revenues
    on “bad” customers’. there’s no such thing, but some may be better than others.

    ‘“piracy” is nothing more than a shoddy alibi for business failure and lack of innovation’. how true a statement is this! now try convincing the labels. they’re the ones that need telling. we have been trying for years. trouble is, you cant talk to someone that refuses to listen. you cant get someone to change their mind if they are not prepared to give something new (to them) a fair trial run! you cant keep existing customers or get new ones if all you want to do is brand them all as criminals, bankrupt them and throw them in jail. not really a good plan, is it?

    i am sure that anyone with sense reading this post agrees with you. the problem is trying to get the labels to listen to sense. when they can buy politicians who are more interested in how much money is being ‘donated’ to them than how they are hindering progress, the labels will continue down the old dirt track rather than drive up the slip road on to the motorway. being stubborn isn’t always a good idea!!

  • danielrobertsg

    Yes… Just bloomibg heck YES!

  • Monster

    I don’t have a problem with paying for any music, movies or tv. The problem is 99% of it is total fucking garbage.  I refuse to spend my money on fucking trash. Put out an album with more than 1 or 2 good songs then come talk to me about my money.  Until then the Artists, Labels, Production companies & whoever else can suck my dizzle!

  • Kobe2k12

    So why does mp3raid no longer support downloads?

  • Cujo

     this is a great post and the very truth as to what has happened  ,, for me like so many of us ,, we’re the reality ,, I have 660 movies  ,, I’ve never downloded a movie yet next week my buddy is going to send me his collection  ,,  2 TB ,, 1300 movies  ,, well I might need them ,, maybe not cause the library has been my source  ,, they got
     1500 movies  ,,  the pirates have won  ,, so you ass holes who won’t give in and have nothing else to do but try sueing someone  ,, go home and enjoy the bounty  lol

    • Violated0

      Given a 90 minute average length than 1500 movies would take you 141 solid days to watch allocating you only 8 hours sleep each day. No food, no bathroom breaks, no shopping and viewing complete in 141 days.

      • Zephyr

        Since “99% of it is total fucking garbage,” it will take Cujo only 34 hours to watch all what is worth in those 1,500 movies.

  • DocGerbil100

    Absolutely bang on fucking target.

    Mr Williams, you have my most profound gratitude.
    Much obliged – my smileys go up to eleven today.
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

  • http://twitter.com/XiYueMickey Xi Yue

    This is a really great read on the industry! After decades of dispute on music piracy and having witnessed the emergence and incredible growth of digital music, the industry really needs to get innovative and come up with fitting new business models to catch up with technology and consumer habits, instead of putting blame on the same people who appreciate the works.

  • Whoami

    Good luck with your project, friend.

  • Rocky

    Stealing is still stealing. If you took something that’s supposed to be paid for you’re certainly not helping. End of story.

    • Fredrika

      > “Stealing is still stealing.”

      Yes, and manufacturing something with your own property, as people filesharing does, is not stealing. You are aware of this indisputable fact? If not you can veirfy it in both the law and a dictionary.

      > “If you took something that’s supposed to be paid for..”

      When people fileshare they are not taking anything. They are manufacturing something with their own property that they own, according to information that is freely given to them. It is free, it can not be paid for, it’s not supposed to be paid for, the price can never be anything else than free, the price is not up for dicussion.

      > “..you’re certainly not helping.”

      Filesharing does not exclude at the same time helping, you are aware of this fact?

      > “End of story.”

      Yes, putting an end to a political debate, believing that one’s own ignorant belief is the truth is one way to fail. Good luck with that.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

        “You are aware of this indisputable fact?” hahaha

    • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

      If you don’t want the public listening to your shit don’t fucking make it .End of story. if you want customers make it easy for everyone to enjoy it customers come first listen first pay later. Is that such a hard concept to adjust to?

      • Guest

         the perfect business model is YouTube… the public drives the demand. they can suggest all they want but you easily get through the bullshit & get what you want anyway.

        • Anyone

          now if only they would stop censoring

        • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

          YouTube is great I’m signed up to adsense and possibly going to be youtube partnered it’s just a matter of time til google gets back. It was youtube who asked me if i wanted to sign up. But along with that there are far more hidden eggs hidden and waiting to be discovered lots of goodies that the industries feel threatened with. It’s only a matter of time til the industries are no longer needed.

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

       mpaa chris dodd : PIRACY IS NOT THEFT. 

      whats another word for theft, its STEALING, which means piracy cna no longer be classed as theft/stealing as its been wrongly claimed for decades.

      sharing content is like listenign to music or watching a match on tv, you havent paid for that content and if you like the content you may vry well after hearing it go see/buy it. just like piracy/p2p.

    • Violated0

      “If you took something that’s supposed to be paid for”

      I am quite sure all this is about the public regaining control of the music market so they under a free market concept can dictate and control what that market wants.

      That same market was once stolen from them with music life being locked up in a restrictive abusive monopoly for decades which has served only the 1% and not the 99% well. Now musicians and creation flourish under a free distribution model.

      Let me ask the key question. What is better for musicians them getting screwed over by a traditional monopoly gatekeeper label where only 1 in 20 succeed or a free sharing culture where only them alone can still sell their music?

      The monopoly has been broken, a free market of Indie artists flourishes, the public has shown what they want in easy listening and transport, and here you are still moaning? Shame on you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/philippesymons Philippe Symons

    This… They need to read this…

    EDIT: It would really be refreshing to get a real reaction in this article from organisations like Brein and Sony. To get a discussion.

    • Anyone

      just imagine the worst assholish denial to this article

      there is your answer from them

    • Violated0

      Their usual response is thieves, more regulation and control, followed by Indie music is “mostly all noise”. Not to forget infringement results in hundreds of thousands of job losses and millions in lost revenue.

      Trust me when I say you cant debate ethics and reality with these people.

    • Guest

       The problem for the copyright monopolists is that they know where the  problem lies , they know it is not piracy destroying them, but they will keep harping on about how piracy is killing music “again” as a way to request special treatment when a greater percentage of music is consumed from new artists that do not sign up to a label.
      They do not want to lose there control over the market and are doing whatever they can to stop anyone other than themselves making money from music.
      What i think they have misunderstood is that there are way more than a few internet savvy entrepreneurs coming up with different distribution methods and ways to actually pay the musicians, you know those people that actually deserve to be paid.
      They have managed to infiltrate and virtually take over a few, like spotify and itunes and a few others, but it just takes one of the new music distribution sites to strike gold and get the attention of customers to change the landscape overnight, why do you think they tried to stop megabox and are trying to destroy torrent sites.

      One day a site will come forward with a business plan that encompasses all that people could ever wish for, good music for free or literally free and with other content that they either pay for or agree to watch ads for.
      Remember facebook was not a success for a long time , but when they hit it big it was almost overnight that they went form a well known social site to “the” social site on the internet.

      I am just waiting for a site like meagbox to come up with a competing top 40 song-list every week in every country. And advertising it as a song-list of artists that are not signed with a label.
      Everyone that listens to music will be interested , and if it is done the right way it will destroy the monopolists, not the labels, but the monopolists that believe it is there right to get paid every time a song is played.

      Hopefully more artists will see how it is in there interests to keep there copyright to there material, although i am sure many will be very tempted to sell it with the promise that they could possibly be part of the 1% of labeled artists that actually make a living from there music.

  • djnforce9

    “Imagine if the record industry had actually spent the last 12 years
    innovating and building what customers wanted. Maybe we’d be happily
    streaming from Sony or Warner instead of Apple.”

    That would be completely awesome! While Apple certainly has a very large repository of music from all sorts of artists, they cram that godawful iTunes application down your throat even before they let you into their store. That piece of bloatware is what keeps me from ever buying music from them. Also, Spotify is not available in Canada so I can’t go that route either. If only someone else would open a business with a large collection of songs to stream that only requires a web browser or even through a media player like Winamp or Windows Media Player would be nicer.

    For now, the best service I can think of is CDBaby since it lets you re-download your purchased music as many times as you want and all albums have samples so you aren’t just going on blind faith. Only thing it’s missing is the ability to stream the full versions of those songs for a much better preview.

  • Mwhahaha

    risking a double post, something went weird:
    I was wondering if the author could tell us what kind of percentages their artists get of the subscription fees and how much they, as the de facto label, take.
    On the service as a whole…
    I don’t really want to have to pay for a random selection of songs from unreleased, possibly shit and definitely varied group of musicians every month when they most likely have free access to other songs on other promotional platforms. 

    Lots of free radio stations introduce me to artists who have been good enough to secure a record deal already, rather than a bunch of guys noodling in their bedrooms.

    So why pay for an introductory music service? 

    That’s like paying a dating service when you’re at university, a waste of money as you can get yourself laid easily enough.Until someone starts a non-profit service where the artists get all monies after running expenses I’ll feel the artists’ rewards are being top sliced by people who don’t deserve it.As for the article, gotta agree with Rob8, it’s long winded (and I should know what that is…) but I skimmed thru the second half. It read to me as a guy saying ‘I’m the answer to your prayers…. please pay for my service because it’s not doing so well and I might have to get a real job.’I'd have to say I’m probably *just* in the key demograph for music buying, but only just. This service doesn’t appeal in the slightest. $149 to get sent music which they pick until they go bankrupt in 6-18 months time? Didn’t that kind of thing use to come free stuck to the front of music magazines with that weird glue?I’d rather take my, what, about £80-90 and go and buy a dozen classic CDs instead, by artists which I know I like rather than possibly end up with what becomes a listening chore every month as I skip through all kinds of stuff.The idea of a place sending out music samplers is fantastic for unknown artists, but with torrents they can do it themselves with half an ounce of organization, a cheap webpage and a snazzy logo. If all they’re doing this for is to get noticed then why should we have to pay? The logic is faulty and that’s why it will fail.

    • Mwhahaha

      bastard paragraph fault.

    • Sudara

      It doesn’t sound like Ramen is for you—which is totally fine!—but I’ll go ahead and answer your questions! 

      The artists on Ramen Music get > 75% of subscription fees. 

      People who subscribe do it for two main reasons: 

      1) They don’t want to spend the time and energy scouring the internet for new music. They are busy and would rather pay for a service that will do the work, hand-pick tracks and introduce them to new musicians they might like.

      2) They like our model, the way we present the music and want to support how we are doing things (with regards to pro-sharing, fair payments to artists, etc.) 

      Most folks subscribe for $39/year. I used the $149 “investor” subscription in the article to illustrate that there are lots of people out there who love to spend money lots of money on music and services they like. 

      From the artists’ side: Like you say, it’s pretty hard as a DIY/independent artist to get noticed. But one can’t throw up some torrents and web page and suddenly get interest or people buying. It unfortunately is not that easy 99.9% of the time.. This is also why music blogs have been so popular, they help “discover” and promote musicians. We are doing the same, but while paying the artists.

      Also, I have to say: The quantity of effort we put into curation (listening to all the submissions, deciding which ones to include) and issue production (writing about each artist, back and forthing with them) — is….significant. It dominates my life for many weeks per issue :) 

  • The Muss

    The thing is that I go to concerts, sometimes I buy itunes music.  It’s just I don’t like to sync files, so  sometimes I find the music on youtube and use youtube to mp3 websites.  From my experience I can say that they’re not losing anything. 

    Because I’m going to concerts and movies, Occasionally I buy itunes music.  When I download music for free, I use youtube video ( they get money for view)

  • Guest

    Internet piracy kills millions of artists each day. Please donate and support your local MAFIAA.

    • Guest

      MAFFIA rips of artists everyday by giving them peanuts and keeping 90% for themselves.

    • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

       Fail but funny lol.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1808250491 William Carson

    “Maybe they are in college, and when they get a job the situation changes.”

    I can attest to this, except that I am in high school. I used to pirate music (and software) all the time. However, I have found that when I got a job, I tend to buy my music and software more than I pirate it. Usually it’s just a convenience thing, like when I have very little money due to lack of a job, I just want the music, but I’m more willing to pay for it when I do have money.

  • http://www.twitter.com/echoman74 echoman

    I think of it like this it’s like trying to teach a foreigner a new language they just wont even try to learn the language. No matter how hard you try they keep crying and whining, til finally when they see all their friends speaking the language, and no one no longer wants to speak to that person they suddenly click and realize well, “I think i better learn the language.”

    By that time it’s too late no one’s interested in you anymore.

    Now if the industries can realize this and stop blaming the public for their failed 19th century business model and listen to us the customers, consumers, fans what we want because without us, they aren’t a business. They’re just a circus full of clowns in fancy suits trying to look important. 

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  • Dsf

     I would love for someone like Rihanna or Adele to bring out an album and offer the listeners the chance to buy it or download it for free! It would be brilliant to see the difference in numbers

  • Blah, blah and blah

     Went to that Ramen website and listened a few sample of some of their songs. My overall impression was that they all suck balls. Really not into hipsters looking and sound “artsy”. So I had to go back listening to my death metal and 90′s gansta rap to clean and rid myself from all of that hippie fart smelling like Potpourri!

    • Sudara

      “Hippie fart smelling like Potporri” made me lol. 
      Yeah…we don’t get many death metal or 90′s gagsta rap submissions. Put the word out though, I’d love to publish some :)

    • ScrewEwe2

      So, were the Top Ramen artists “artsy fartsy” in your opinion? I’ll take the smell of Pot over Potpourri any day while I kick back in the recliner and relax to some Slayer.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

      I just wanna post something about farts.

  • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

    You should look at the rapidly evolving new business model in the book publishing world, which is creating the most wonderful opportunities for both writers and readers, not to mention freelance editors, publicists and so on. Fortunately for all concerned the publishing industry does not seem to be run by people with the thuggish mentality of street corner gangsters so it has been able to evolve without legal bloodshed.

    The old publishers who do not move with the changes are simply being left behind, because they cannot offer new writers the freedom, speed to market, size of market and control of their output that the new model offers them. If similar opportunities can be created for new musicians they will undoubtedly abandon the old record companies in droves. This is precisely why the latter are fighting like cornered slavering rats to try and prevent such competition. And, like slavering rats they should be put down, for the good of the public.

    The legal problems associated with listening to current, contracted music are a red herring. The next generation of musicians – good, bad and indifferent – will, I am sure, have nothing whatsoever to do with 19th century gangsters who offer them contracts like the one a long-serving musician in New Zealand recently described as “close to legal slavery”. For them, the very concept of ‘piracy’ simply will not exist; there will just be them and their fans, and simple middlemen who do no more than conveniently connect the two.

    As so many have said, and research proved, penniless youths download free as they have more time than money; then they get jobs and pay for easy access as they have more money than time. And whose music and merchandise will they buy? The stuff they have grown to like, or the stuff they have never heard of? It really is not rocket science. Only half-witted American gangsters used to getting their own way by threatening to cut their neighbours’ legs off could be too stupid to see it. Which is rather ironical when you consider that street corner drug peddlars seem to understand the principle perfectly well.

    • blah

      Please stop slandering rats. They are nice creatures.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gear-Mentation/100003097514663 Gear Mentation

        I set a mouse trap once, it got filled, and then the other mouse started eating the dead one. 

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

          Funny, saw the same thing once with starving people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gear-Mentation/100003097514663 Gear Mentation

      All I have to say is, the pirate options are getting better rapidly, so if you want people to pay for convenience, you better hurry up.  If the MAFIAA had, 10 years ago, adopted a method of streaming music and distributing downloads with DRM for cheap, they would not have this problem.  They should have taken over Napster, charged a nominal amount, and taken control of the technology.  We would all accept DRM if they had.  They could have done it.  Now they can’t, and even convenience will not be a factor soon, as the pirate options improve.

  • Iamnotasheep

    as i do hold to the ideas of ramenmusic i do not like them. i have a VERY eclectic taste in music and it is NEVER what other people deem as “good” so your 13 judges would skip over my music & i would never be able to hear it. put out your “mix tapes for free & let the public decide what is good… once again, the recording industry is trying to control what we listen to. just let them put up their shit & we will decide who lives or dies! paying a subscription to a panel of judges to tell me what i will like is just bullshit! i have my own mind & i prefer to use it.

    • Sudara

      You might like the other project I run — http://alonetone.com — There, you can listen to what everyone puts up.  There’s no judges or filtering. It’s free to artists and listeners. It’s non-commercial. There is a “kicking ass” list which is determined by how much stuff is listened to. Sounds like you’d like it :) 

      • Word

        I’ve been checking it out.. It’s FUN! 

        Found this tune I liked … 
        http://alonetone.com/henwrench/tracks/up-the-hill-backwards-bowie-cover 

        Can Artists freely use each others stuff, remix and create new stuff? 

        Does alonetone foster collaborations?  Copyright?  Marketing? 

        It’s a FUN website.  I like it.  I’ll spread the word. 

      • Zephyr

        I would personally prefer a much wider selection of music (wider than in Ramen Music), and that each piece was classified by genre/style (and year, author, language, etc.). I wouldn’t mind to pay for each download as long as I could listened to a few seconds sample before purchasing. Thus the annual subscription could be spent in a limited number of downloads or alternatively, drop the subscription and charge for every download. Other nice additions could be a comments section for each piece, customer rating (similar to Amazon’s rating system, with relative and absolute rating counts), and the number of downloads for each song.

  • foff

    What I don’t get is why stores continue to sell cd’s.  Who the fuck actually buys a cd now days?  I don’t know any kids personally that are even remotely interested in buying CD’s.  So that market is dead dead and dead some more.  Now the young consumer fills up his phone yes phone not ipod, ipods are quickly becoming obsolete,
    Owning and collecting music is no longer something the young crowd cares about. They simply want instant access and gratification.

    So what the future business model of the the music industry will be I don’t know but selling music the way it was sold in the past is over so they will definitely have to find a new model.

    • Violated0

      I would agree with you. The CD is 90s market technology and 2012 should be the year we begin to strip out CD sales forever. It is obsolete technology by a long way but it has lasted longer than it should due to being more “pretty” than the alternatives.

    • Zephyr

      You’ve overlooked one thing, the consumers in the music market is something more than a bunch of youngsters who like to listen to shitty music. Many middle aged people and the elder also like to listen to music, and unlike most young ones, most of them usually pay for the music that they listen. And guess what, they buy music CDs.

      • Anonymous

        That doesn’t mean that the model itself isn’t becoming outdated. Logical fallacy.
        Not to mention in twenty years, the people who’ve grown up to digital downloads, when they choose to buy the music they like, will most preferably be buying digital copies of the CDs, in some lossless format like FLAC.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gear-Mentation/100003097514663 Gear Mentation

    This is a very good article.  But I think we have to consider something: maybe from now on, artists will be paid for performances, not for recordings.  Period.  Some services will be paid to make the free music more convenient.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gear-Mentation/100003097514663 Gear Mentation

    And, in a system where artists are paid for performances, not recordings, who performs?   Possibly that decision would be based on statistics gathered on who’s listening to what.  Performers would pay a cooperative  to do the bookings and promotion (They’d pay ahead or from proceeds).  And their slot in the performance (like, an evening of music) would be based on the popularity stats.  Thus creating stars would be a matter of crowd sourcing.  It would turn into a pyramid scheme, since the popular ones would get more popular, but it would work much like the current system in that way.  Very sadly, it would not be very lucrative for the MAFIAA.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E63N5WNJ6JUBM6YZJUT7EDC5X4 Nick


      Possibly that decision would be based on statistics gathered on who’s listening to what”

      No way in hell am I going to let the majority decide

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gear-Mentation/100003097514663 Gear Mentation

         Okay not for your own listening, but you don’t have to go to concerts.  Concerts are for masses of people who all like the same thing.

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  • Rob Holmes

    Stealing is stealing.  No matter how many excuses you make.

    • Fredrika

      > “Stealing is stealing.  No matter how many excuses you make.”

      Correct, and manufacturing copies with your own property that you own, as people filesharing does, is not stealing, no matter how many times ignorant weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market without a legislative monopoly claim it is. This is an indisputable fact that can be verified in both the law and a dictionary.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/lVl477H13Ll M@T

      “Stealing is stealing”
      Of course it is. That’s called a tautology.
      Also, sharing is caring.

    • YARIGHT

      ya thats why the CRIA in canada has only paid one music artist whom sued for 6 billion on behalf of everyone ….that levy has made them 550 million 
      watch that completely die now

      so you can have another stat to blame on someone else other then your lazy ass

    • ScrewEwe2

      Stealing is appealing, that’s my feeling.

    • Cartann

      And working is working, and black is black and … c’mon man. That is the most stupid argument I have ever heard!!! Do you remember the cassete recorder???
      Recording a music from the radio was stealing it?  It’s time to come to the 21 century!! I could not agree more with the author of this article. Too bad that the goons from the dark side found this chat.

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  • tandigandi

    lol, I mean who actually “pays” for music? lol.

    Most-Privacy.tk

  • http://twitter.com/ethicalfan EthicalFan

    A – No industry can compete long term with their equivalent product available for free.  Its not just music anymore.  Music revenues are down 50% since Napster.  Home video is down 25% since BitTorrent.  Cable TV revenues down 7% and video games revenues down 20% since BitTorrent. Internet companies work together to block spam and sites with viruses and malware every day.  Blocking IPs of torrent seeders is no different. B – “Filesharing” of content without permission is still illegal in almost all 1st world nations.

    • Andrew Lee

       Sure they have no problem saying physical sales are way down and forget to provide one bit of information. Digital sales are skyrocketing..

      I’m sure the people that press the plastic hates this but it was a long time coming. It’s a waste of resources that has no place in an age of technology. Anything that can be digital should be. Soon it will be a much more viable option to store your whole movie collection digitally as storage capacity continues to grow. It’s already a perfect option for music considering the files are much smaller.

      Your black and white view that might have worked very well 30 years ago has no place in this age.

      Their tactics of suing fans for massive amounts is absurd. I don’t support them anymore. This means I don’t buy download or even talk about products I really did enjoy a lot. Anyone that would sue a fan IMO can fuck off.

      Everyone that loves to bitch about sales going downhill with their figures that were pulled out of a hat is a joke. Why are so many movies setting record breaking box office figures? I thought they were be killed by piracy.

      I urge everyone to stop supporting them 100% and prove piracy should be the least of their worries. Once they lose enough they’ll realize don’t piss off the fans. If you stop buying and talking about their products it will hurt them. You might be the one to convince your friends to buy that next album or go see whoever live.

      People support what they like. Plus like I’ve said before when you buy something if it fucking sucks you have the right to return it except music,movies,and video games of course.

      Shows how much faith they have in their products right? I can buy something from china that cost 20 cents that have more faith in their product. In fact they have so much faith in that 20 cent pos they tell me if I don’t like it I can return it with no questions asked.

    • Fredrika

      > “No industry can compete long term with their equivalent product available for free.”

      You have put forward this incorrect claim before, and the same answer goes now again, in reality, successful entrepreneurs are already doing just that, so why do you claim the opposite when it has already been proven possible?

      > “Music revenues are down 50% since Napster.”

      Please stop spreading lies, ok? The combined revenues in the music industry has gone up each year since Napster. They are currently on a record level never seen before. And as a bonus, more of those revenues than ever before find their way to the actual creators and artists instead of middlemen, thanks to technological advancements.

      > “Home video is down 25% since BitTorrent.”

      The relevant number is the the combined revenues in the movie industry are up since BitTorrent.

      > “Cable TV revenues down 7%..”

      Cable TV companies don’t create content, so that’s completely irrelevant from a copyright related point of view. But if they manage to sell less products, they deserve less revenues, that’s how the free market works, did you not know this? Or are you advocating communism or a planned economy, where free market rules shouldn’t apply?

      > “..and video games revenues down 20% since BitTorrent.”

      More lies i see. The video game industry’s combined revenues are up since BitTorrent.

      > “Blocking IPs of torrent seeders is no different.”

      It would be a clear violation of the human rights protected freedom to seek, receive and impart information through any media and regardless of frontiers. Are you saying that you feel it’s ok to violate human rights, just to protect the profits of weak failed entrepreneurs that can’t handle themselves on the free market, and therefore deserve no profit according to the free market rules?

      > “”Filesharing” of content without permission is still illegal in almost all 1st world nations.”

      And? You are aware of the fact that referencing what the current law says as an attempt at an argument is circular reasoning which is a logical fallacy?

      Nevertheless, in the worlds strongest and biggest economy, the EU, which the US and it’s monopoly holders will have to learn to bow for, the only growing group in parliament is now advocating a partial dismantling of the copyright monopoly, so that filesharing will be legalized.

      Looking at the current trends in Europe, where the political pirates are growing each day in the strongest economy in EU, Germany, and the fact that the pirates will run for parliament from every single EU country in the next EU election, unlike only one single country in the last when they easily got elected, expect another 50 -100 pirates to enter parliament in 2014, and then the copyright monopoly will be guaranteed to be partially dismantled in no time, so that filesharing is legal in every nation in the worlds strongest economy and it’s 1st world nations.

    • Guest

      You’re right.

      Bottled water can’t compete with rain.

      Cable can’t compete with free-to-air television.

      CDs can’t compete with free-to-air radio.

      Fashion can’t compete with home sewing.

      Restaurants can’t compete with home cooking.

      Oh, wait. They can.

      You’re both a joke, and a liar.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E63N5WNJ6JUBM6YZJUT7EDC5X4 Nick

      Santa Claus is more believable than the shit you just pulled up

    • DocGerbil100

      I haven’t the time to look at other industries, but I have looked over the stats for games.

      Ethicalfan’s comment appears to be from market research showing that US videogame sales at traditional retail outlets in February are down 20% year-on-year.  His comment ignores the inconvenient facts that this relates solely to US sales through high-street shops and that hardware sales are down by almost as much.

      Unless someone’s pirating and selling whole games consoles and nobody’s told us, this most likely has nothing to do with file-sharing or piracy in any way at all.

      Unless he has something better to say, I can only conclude that Ethicalfan is nothing more than a pro-copyright shill using selective evidence to justify a preconceived conclusion.

      Forbes article referencing his figure:
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/03/08/u-s-retail-video-game-sales-fell-20-in-february-from-yr-ago/

      Two random links discussing overall industry revenues, which have consistently risen year-on-year since 2002:
      http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/06/gaming-expected-to-be-a-68-billion-business-by-2012/
      http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/172092/Core_gamers_to_grow_game_industry_revenues_to_70B_by_2017__analyst.php

      • Anyone

        it also doesn’t take into account the record years Steam has been having

        of course physical sales are hurting, because noone wants those anymore

    • Anonymous

      There’s the problem, SPAM is seen as a nuicense to everyone, so-called music “Piracy” only affects fat cats and big wigs. noone else cares.

  • Violated0

    That was a nice read but let me expand on this including known history and the current reality.

    Well it was 1999 when Napster began and took what was once restricted high priced music and gave it to the World for free. This is just an event that had to happen due to the existence of the Internet and the late 90s event of ISPs signing the general public so had it not been Napster than someone else would have. History does show though that John Fanning, Shawn Fanning, and Sean Parker had balls big enough to do this.

    While Napter within a year was closed down and assets sold the dam had already burst and free music sharing post 2000 expanded through the Internet like wildfire.

    The funny thing about all this is that during the 90s the RIAA had successfully locked up the music market and sales were collapsing for them. People were mostly bored with the RIAA labels reinventing popular music and all the hassle of CDs. So the RIAA labels were killing themselves and they needed a miracle.

    Now I would not say that Napster was their ideal miracle by a long shot when it seems more like being kicked in the nuts when they were down. Exposing the public though to thousands upon thousands of music tracks was the adrenaline shot the music market long needed  People regained their love of music and such wide exposure allowed them to find the bans they liked. So I don’t think that the RIAA can be unhappy that their gross revenue have expanded year by year post 2000.

    Oddly enough the Internet makes life easier for all including the RIAA. Sure there have been massive changes but any popular Indie artist can be sucked up by an RIAA label giving them a much better success chance than their usual 1 success along with 19 failures. Also since life is not as critical for a musician these days then there are many more musicians about along with media creation.

    As to current life of a musician then anyone dreaming of being a Lady Gaga like rock star so badly needs slapping back to their senses. She is only Queen of the old system and they pump her up to win your dreams along with your envy and jealousy.

    Reality for a musician is an average income of $35,000 a year according to tax returns in the United States. Not exactly the millions of a rock star in other words but as this is still about $10,000 above the minimum wage then I doubt in this hard recession that many people would say “no”.

    Well it has been about 12 years now since Napster changed the World and clearly the genie is out of the bottle. This is not bad news when what every band most wants is simply popularity and a fan-base. It then only requires some basic business skills to turn this into a profit from ticketing to merchandising.

    We can see from DaJaz1 that certain idiots in the RIAA are still getting things badly wrong where here were musicians and their labels freely releasing tracks to drum up some support and to get some feedback, Along then came the RIAA and DoJ “nuking” the site under false claims of massive infringement. Yes you still do owe DaJaz1 a public apology.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

    “It’s time to stop bickering about “piracy” and help make that happen—not with wishful thinking—but by making cool shit that gets the job done.”

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    Bickering about piracy is TF’s bread and butter, son!

  • http://twitter.com/Jetblackc22 SMFR

    Pay what you want seems to be going a long way, check out humblebundle.com. They package a bunch of games, sometimes adding more that you still get if you purchase early, and let you name your price. They even give you more if you pay a certain amount or more. These guys are making millions of dollars and costs them nearly nothing since the games are digitally distributed. The money also goes to charity as well. This is a model that could be used for the music industry. Yeah everyone want to get that $15 per album, but sometimes something is better than nothing, especially when its all done digitally. And then you build a following. When you make something people love and respect, they will support you. Some show support by churning out hundreds of dollars and paying multiple of what the actual cost is. Others do this by returning and giving money, although perhaps a dollar or two, but adding up. As long as people are paying for your work, you win, whether its $1 or $100. The hardest part is getting your name out and creating a hard-to-refuse deal will build a fan-base and profit.

  • Shadowsofthevoid

    This is a man who knows his customer.  I would happily pay $50 a month or so (even up to $100 if the service was good enough) to have unlimited access to all TV shows, music, movies what ever … like a subscription TV service say … and I would never pirate again.  It would have to be international though to work.  This is what the people want … the studios could make massive amounts of money off this because lord knows that there is endless other ways to make money off a website and piracy would be so insignificant that nobody would care.  Right now if I want this I have to mask my IP address to get around the IP borders in place and get limited access.  Wake up studios … the people are speaking you just have to listen.  PS not everyone wants to use Itunes and pay per download … I would rather gouge out my eyes than do that.

  • Dupe

    i sincerely hope the entertainment industries dont do their usual thing now, like try to get your website blocked or taken down. you know their rules, if you tell the truth they will lie cheat and deceive to get their views to the media whilst blocking what you are saying/doing. the more successful you are, the more they are going to condemn you and fight against you.the dmca works in their favour every time. just look at what happens on Youtube. Universal Music Group did it earlier this week and got away with the ‘it was an accident’ excuse. no one else is allowed to use that!

  • Peasant O’ CouncilHouse

    Piracy is not the problem, it’s an excuse.
    Web censorship in general…

  • a torrent site owner

    good article but i would love to know which cloud you pulled the $15 a album from. try buying a album in the uk for that money and it wont be a new album maybe one from 8 years ago in a bin!!

    • Fredrika

      > “..try buying a album in the uk for that money and it wont be a new album..”

      Isn’t £8,99(which roughly equals $15 or less) the standard price for brand new CD’s on Amazon.co.uk including free UK shipping, and £7,49 for DRM free album downloads?

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  • coont

    so the music industry again whinging about copyrite and the fact that artists are broke?
    so …how did amy winehouse kill herself? drugs funded by whome. her benefit allowance or her music profits.
    all reverse psychology and utter bullshit. private trackers are the way forward anyway… fuck public sites.

  • marksplinter

    I read the article hoping to find the bit where you mention that this “freely available music” is actually stolen, in every sense of the word except the strict legal definition. Strictly speaking, it’s not stolen, but artists’ rights are infringed. Does that make it OK? I guess you think infringing people’s rights is fine, and musicians should just “adapt” to having their rights infringed, instead of standing up for their rights. Hmm.

    http://copylike.org/postcards/copylike.org_postcard_rightsandtheft.jpg

    • Sudara

      I don’t think many artists could make a good argument that they’d be better off without digital distribution. And a big part of that, like it or not, is “freely available music.” That’s just the way it works. It’s easy to get wrapped up in anecdotal or emotional ways this could be problematic—but ultimately it’s not that straight-forward. You don’t know. I don’t know. The experts don’t know. 

      My primary plea is that focusing on *potential* negatives is not constructive, prevents business from evolving to a changed market, ignores the positive effects of the digital domain, and worst of all: demonizes the very people responsible for purchasing and supporting music. 

      The question I ask is: Will fighting for infringement help artists get paid? Does it help them get heard? I can’t see how artifically restricting supply or persecuting a whole segment of your target market helps to generate a healthy business environment. It hasn’t worked so far.

      I see many more benefits to accepting the world we are in, and possibly to examine to our values and laws. In my mind, the productive and constructive route is to accept the situation, move on, then utilize and bask in the vast benefits cheap copies bring us as artists and businesses. 

      • marksplinter

        Artists aren’t making an argument that they’d be better off without digital distribution. They are making the argument that they would be worse off without their rights (and by implication, enforcement)

        “That’s just the way it works” eh?
        Well people have been murdering people for years but we still try to prevent murder and convict murderers. That’s just the way it works :)

        • Anonymous

          As history has already told us, tighter enforcement =/= more sales for the artists. Someone has already mentioned previously that in the 1990s that when the RIAA literally controlled music, sales started dropping drastically. Yes, copying artists’ work does infringe on their rights. But so do the major labels who sign artists into “legal slavery”. That doesn’t mean that either is more “right” than the other, though.

          Because this is a gray area (total enforcement of copyright stifles creativity and profits, not to mention fans will be put off by it, while completely free music sharing (without an alternative) will just bankrupt the artists), these two factors have to co-exist. Music currently is available two ways – for free download, via Google/torrents/etc, or you can buy it. The “buying” part is currently not as efficient/effective at distribution as piracy is. Sudara makes some great points about how people who get “pirated copies” of music are more likely to explore the same types of music when they get older and might actually buy it. That is how it should be. The truth is, the Internet is a method of distribution. You can’t expect everyone to pay for every song now – it’s a lost cause in this current era, as history has proven, and is counter-intuitive to the idea of the Internet. You also can’t expect to be able to FORCE people to do this as well – which is why I especially despise the COPYLIKE postcard above – it’s meant to try to demonize the consumer who in the end, is the one who’s supposed to make the decision to buy the music that these artists rely on to get their living. Ethos/pathos appeal at best. The best business model, as Sudara has said previously, is one where people can both download the song/album for free, or buy it via an almost as equally efficient method of distribution (which means drastic changes to the current business model).

  • Johnerox

    Hackneyed and tired opinion im afraid. Pathetic to assume that these kind of opinions haven’t been aired years ago. Ooh a subscription service. How original. To suggest illegal downloading is not a huge problem is nothing short of an attempt to pander to a demographic and win friends. You are, in short, entirely wrong. Would love to speak to you five years from now and see of what you’ve written still holds any meaning.

    • Sudara

      I’ve held this opinion for 12 years both as an artist and someone interested in innovation and getting artists paid. Not sure what new information might come to light in the next 5 that would make me change it! You are right of course about the pandering, excuse me for wanting to make friends! :D

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  • Nicole Pank

    Case in point: I loved this article and wondered, “what is this Ramen Music thing he’s talking about?” So I clicked, read the FAQ, and even though I’m broke, I just shared and endorsed it to my 1,000 Facebook friends. I also tagged a bunch of musicians and music lovers to be sure they see it.

    I’ll be subscribing as soon as I have a spare $40, but in the meantime, thanks for having a setup where my friends can let me read/listen for free. :)

    • Sudara

      Thanks Nicole! How awesome :)

  • Rob

    Back in the 90′s there was no file sharing, people bought CD’s. As soon as technology emerged and became popular with increased bandwidth, it became possible to share exact copies of digital products. Not low quality, or recordings, exact one-to-one copies. Also movies, video games, books, etc etc.

    The excuse for piracy is that these are digital products, a bunch of 0′s and 1′s, that can be replicated at no cost since they are not physical products. You’re not copying a lawnmower, as they say. But people forget one thing – lawnmowers are built by humans, and so are those 0′s and 1′s. They don’t appear out of nowhere from nature.

    • Sudara

      This is definitely where it gets tough for me to understand also. What is interesting is that the *music* itself cost something to produce: effort, time, money.

      But the file carrying it (a copy) doesn’t really cost anyone anything to produce or distribute. The CD carrying it used to. That puts everyone in an odd position! 

      If lawnmowers could be instantly copied and materialized worldwide for pretty much free, I guarantee the lawnmower industry would be experiencing a crises and be up in arms. I don’t have any answers except: As far as business goes, it doesn’t help to keep wondering why people press copy. Or to demand that people don’t. Cheap copies are a huge advancement and should be integrated into business models rather than fought.

  • Keith Panton

    In short, if the new business model means 10,000 bands can make a reasonable living from making their music, instead of 10 of them making it big and having a bidet that fires champagne, I’m all for it.

    IF anyone’s losing out to piracy, it’s the leeches in suits who’ve been living off the artists for decades.

    I remember reading that they lose on 98% of artist signings, only profiting on 2%.  Is that our fault? or piracy’s? Or are they just not very good at spotting talent, instead just tiresomely picking clones of what’s popular, and then being shocked that we’re bored of it by the time they’ve remodelled the artist into something sellable?

    With any luck, we’ll also see a rise of great talent that isn’t ‘marketable’ doing really well, because damn, is it possible that an unattractive person could write great music?

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  • Hogspace

    Perhaps it’s an age thing but I’ve never bought one track. I might listen to it on free Spotify. The only thing I buy are Albums. 
    They have to be MP3/DRM free, 256k VBR or better and $3.00 or less. 
    That’s right, it doesn’t have to be free. It has to be what I deem fair value. 

  • Ed3101

    Brilliant post!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V4RXPRZZNMKOXPCTJ4AK35CIZU Juarez

    like Patrick responded I am alarmed that a single mom able to earn $6267 in a few weeks on the computer. have you read this webpage  (Click on menu Home more information)   http://goo.gl/uyKnc  

  • 16sixty4

    not really feeling the Ramen site =/ $39 and i could end up with a ton of crap i dont like, which is as bad as spending £10-£15 on a album that ends up only having a couple of worthy tunes on it, i’ll stick to the try before i buy as i have done for the past few years

  • jOHN rYDER

    they can stop making movies,tv shows, music and pc games and software and force us to widdle wood !!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.cctrax.com/ SowasVonHacke

    I see the effort you put into this project. Well done web design too, all is working properly. What I don’t get is this license stuff, I mean, I don’t find any creative commons tags that tell me what I’m allowed to do with the music. Legally.
    There are already many podcasts out there that feature ‘curated’ music distributed under CC license. Your project totally depends on subscribers that have no time to search for free music on the net. I wonder how they find your site?

    I wish you good luck however!

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  • skinut

    simple fact of the matter for me, and i’m sure many others, i can’t even afford one record a week or month, cuz life is just too much money nowadays becuz i have to pay for everything …. mommy doesnt’ give it to me, daddy doesn’t give it to me, government doesnt’ give it to me (they take it) and my job just doesnt’ give it to me, either, … we all can’t be winners, and make 1/2 mil a year to satisfy every little thing our little heart desires,
    eh!!!!

    so, as i started out, simple fact of the matter is … i wouldn’t have my library of songs if i didnt’ pirate it (it’s all old stuff, anyways, most yu can’t even buy anymore in stores or find online to buy).  I sure wouldn’t have bought it in the DVD format in the first place, so … i mean, who’s really losing money, here… it’s like the proverbial coulda, shoulda, woulda situation, where you would have had a billion … if … i’d actually bought it.   The supposition that because i pirated it, means that i would have bought it, and that’s why the music industry is losing money is …. facetious, in the extreme … and that applies to pirating new music, too …. the “popular” are the ones who make money, and the ones who actually make “good” music or the ones who just dont’ really make music at all or bad …. don’t … nothing has changed since the advent of the music industry, and they’re just torqued they dont’ have the control they used to have …. this has been going on since reel to reel, cassettes, cd, video and now dvd and other means of “copyright infringement” … it’s all make pretend money so, sure, call me a thief, i can accept that, but i’ve pretty well bought every song i have now, at some point in time in my 55 years ….. oh well, hey, retirement plan, lol …. copyright infringement, i can just see it in 5 years …. more time then if i killed somebody …

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  • Tsunku

     pay $15 per album like back in the Good Old Days??  what world have you been living in? in the good old days i paid $9.00 for ted nugent’s double live gonzo album brand new in the store! also $60 for a concert is ridiculous! i remember when a 2 hour concert only cost you $7.50! lo and behold the main act didn’t disappear after a 45 minute set, they played sometimes an hour and a half! nowadays you’re lucky if they do a single encore song after their 45 mins. and they want more money for less? not getting mine that’s for sure. i do realize a lot of the problem with ticket prices are places like ticketmasters raping consumers which is why pearl jam won’t do a concert where that company is involved.

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  • http://www.claraberry.com/ Clara Berry

    This is a great argument for the I don’t completely disagree with you, the internet and file sharing has done some fabulous things for musicians that would have, in olden times, remained obscurely confined to their basement.  Further I will concede that the industry can’t waste anymore time blaming people because it is clearly not getting anyone anywhere.  However there is the problem that it still costs money to make music (maybe not all music, but a lot of what a lot of people enjoy listening to requires not only the “artist” but the other musicians, engineers, producers, and arrangers) and these people aren’t leaches, they aren’t sucking the blood of the artist, they are helping to create something great.

    Further, people who organize the distribution, the promotion, the manufacturing, they are part of the business.  Sure some amount of overhead can be rightfully eliminated this day in age, packaging costs certainly no longer need to be included to the extent they once were, but these people still need to get paid.  Some artists take on these tasks themselves but realistically these aren’t jobs that most artists can do all by themselves.  Again I wouldn’t say that these people take advantage of artists, they are a rightful part of the   business.

    You say:
    “Making sure artists are paid well (or at least fairly) is the sole responsibility of the business doing the selling. This business could be a label, group of artists, a third-party — or of course, the artist themselves.
    Getting artists paid requires only this: Offering something for sale that is attractive and gets bought. The listener decides when something is worth their money. Business is responsible for offering something attractive, taking money, and paying artists”
    but here’s the problem, when everyone is taking your product for free first what are you supposed to do?  They “decide what’s worth their money”, people for the most part aren’t paying for these albums once they’ve downloaded them for free.  Music is the product, sure you can package it a number of different ways, sell some t-shirts, press it into vinyl but what people ultimately value is the music and far too many are unwilling to pay for that value.  You say those college kids might come to shows, but what about the fact that it is impossible and costly for most artists to be constantly touring?  You want artists to take on a ridiculous amount of risk so that everyone can have their music for free?  So without turning on the Blame-O-Meter (except of course  I am), how is it that hundreds of thousands of people taking the artists work for free and in turn denying payment to the artists and everyone who makes music possible is responsibility of the label?  It may have once been just a few individuals on top who did this but now its everybody and their mother.  
    I get that you are not making an ethical argument.  It is the way it is and I cannot disagree with that, however perhaps it is time for a shift in the conversation from what innovators are not doing, to how, as a culture, we perceive value.  The argument you are making has been made for several years now and we have yet to see a workable model that gives listeners what they want and treats artists and the other people behind the music fairly.  No, we can’t force anyone to do or buy anything anymore and that has good and bad things attached to it, but is it so impossible to think that maybe their could be a revolution in the way we think about what music means to us and whether it is worth our support?  I know that sounds like something your mother would say but having grown up in tandem with the internet I would say that I and my peers feel entitled to things that we aren’t actually entitled to and just because we feel that way now doesn’t mean that we should continue to into the future and that it is not worth addressing.

    Anyway, I will cease rambling but here are some interesting posts regarding the topic:
    A letter to Emily White, intern at NPR All Songs Considered on downloading music :
    http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-white-at-npr-all-songs-considered/

    and Zoe Keating on Spotify:
    http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2011/09/zoe-keating-on-spotify-fairness-to-indie-artists-musics-niche-economy.html

    • Bubanee

      well if people want to pay me to promote ‘a few unreleased songs’ from a future release… I’m all for it.. I’ve always said ‘free’ is just promotion… and really the killers these days are folks who use youtubemp3 converters not torrent uploaders.. plus now major bands can also skip all the bullshit of releasing a physical CD where they get 2% per sale and use itiunes and get up to 60% per sale… so inbetween 2% and 60% is the ‘free’ range… well who wins really… Everyone! the free folks get what they want the itune folks make the Artist more money regardless of the few percent of Free snatching… sure beats the old days of radio recording and the dodgy 2% payment…. 
      So the whingers who complain about folks uploading! 2 words…. Get Stuffed.. 
      it’s about the artist not you greedy f*cks… 

      • Bubanee

        ohhh sorry it says in reply to clara berry… this is meant to be a new post.. sorry clara not aiming at your comment :)

  • http://twitter.com/jimmy6p jimmy kraktov

    Because of file sharing, I got to listen to two groups I never knew even existed.

    “Hookfoot” and “Illinois Speed Press” I bought a copy of “Hookfoot” from some place in Germany. Legally! Still looking for the other :~)

  • Balabong
  • castlesfall

    In what universe do you have to spend $15 on an album? There plenty of albums you can buy on Amazon (brand new) for $3-$8, and that’s just Amazon. Buying an album on iTunes isn’t even $15. Plus the majority of people don’t even buy full albums anymore. They’ll just buy (download) single songs of preference. So is it really that difficult to give up coffee for one or two days to buy some music you claim to “love?”

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