Equally – a recording can easily sell 2000-10,000 copies worldwide, paying itself off, while 2000 fans is not enough for a band to make a global tour – and it's sad to say but being good will not find you fame (or even gigs).
So you're saying that tours need to be global? You also miss the fact that recordings do not make much money anyways.

Related question – what size audience do you need to be playing to twice a week to keep yourself on the road, bearing in mind that either you need to drive back to work the next day, or you can only tour in your holiday?
About 300 sounds about right. Performances, after all, do not need to be expensive endeavors, and not everyone needs to know the band beforehand, and performances do not need to be lone performances.

And you know, there's something faintly depressing about this constant clarion call for people to work hard – have we all signed up to the Republican party?
If you want to offer artists welfare, then do so, but not through a method (copyright) that does not actually benefit artists at all, and which takes away other people's rights.

I would say that is a major argument in favour of copyright for the small artist, even if they don't monetarily benefit.
If they don't monetarily benefit, then that is not a major argument in favor of copyright for the small artist at all.

Secondly – no one is taking away your right to copy and distribute CDs – you never had any right to distribute the contents of that CD.
It is called property rights. Once one owns a CD, one has the property right to do whatever one wishes with it, and that includes making another copy of it and giving it to somebody else. For example, one one buys a hammer, one has the right to make a replica of the hammer and give the replica to somebody else. This is the right you take away through copyright.

That is what the record label and publisher paid the artist for – usually, but not always, under an exclusive licence, but certainly more than you paid for your CD – in the same way broadcasting rights to a TV show cost a little bit more than the private viewing rights you purchase as a DVD.

Remember, it is these rights that enables the artist to negotiate favourable, or dumb, terms with the company.
You mean the right to curtail other people's rights. As I have stated before, the one who wishes to take rights away from others is the one with the burden of proof and paying a sum of money does not constitute "proof."

Put another way – the nature of the work that would be created under such a regime would be very different from that created under the 'invest in recording / recoup from royalties' model. It is unlikely you would get something like MBV's Loveless (approx. $400,000 of record company money spent recording) or Joanna Newsome's 'Ys' (Van Dyke Parks, an orchestra and Abbey Road don't come cheap).
Incorrect. See: Nine Inch Nails.

Lastly – as you say, there are plenty of bands who release their work for free. In which case, support them, rather than material produced by a system you disagree with.
The ones who release their work for free are already alright, but the MAFIAA, which wishes to impose a police state on the internet and uses FUD extortion and bullying tactics, are not alright.

No reason why they can't still work on their art full-time, since it is still possible to make money even if people are sharing. See: Nine Inch Nails. (Just in case you were somehow not able to read the previous comment.)

this is an opinion you want to believe, rather than one founded on fact
Show how the industry has conscience. They have consistently acted in bullying people with copyright extortion. The fact is that they are a business, and the default is that everything they do is a business practice to make more money, which is not conscience. Thus, you have the burden of proof that they make the effort to track down Black musicians to ensure them royalties, rather than to receive money money money; you have not proved this so far.

someone who believes that not being able to have everything they want for free is affecting their 'rights'
Implicit there is the fallacious assumption that this is what a file-sharer is. File-sharing, if you know anything, is about sharing, not about "having things for free." It is about creating multiple copies so that everyone could have it. If we were able to do the same thing for a car (i. e. make copies of cars), then everybody could have a car, no matter how poor they were.

(Note: throughout this post, I have been using the word "art," but it really does not describe it. The more proper term is "entertainment.")

Equally – a recording can easily sell 2000-10,000 copies worldwide, paying itself off, while 2000 fans is not enough for a band to make a global tour – and it's sad to say but being good will not find you fame (or even gigs).

Related question – what size audience do you need to be playing to twice a week to keep yourself on the road, bearing in mind that either you need to drive back to work the next day, or you can only tour in your holiday?

And you know, there's something faintly depressing about this constant clarion call for people to work hard – have we all signed up to the Republican party?

For a small artist – let's say 2000-5000 sales – that can be pretty significant. Let's imagine our 'album' costs $4000-$10,000 for a couple of weeks in a recording studio. Even if the band actually see no money from the recording, they have also not spent anything recording it. The label takes on most of the risk.

If we push that onto the band, and presuming they can somehow raise $4000, then they're $4000 down before they even start. I would say that is a major argument in favour of copyright for the small artist, even if they don't monetarily benefit.

Secondly – no one is taking away your right to copy and distribute CDs – you never had any right to distribute the contents of that CD.

That is what the record label and publisher paid the artist for – usually, but not always, under an exclusive licence, but certainly more than you paid for your CD – in the same way broadcasting rights to a TV show cost a little bit more than the private viewing rights you purchase as a DVD.

Remember, it is these rights that enables the artist to negotiate favourable, or dumb, terms with the company.

Put another way – the nature of the work that would be created under such a regime would be very different from that created under the 'invest in recording / recoup from royalties' model. It is unlikely you would get something like MBV's Loveless (approx. $400,000 of record company money spent recording) or Joanna Newsome's 'Ys' (Van Dyke Parks, an orchestra and Abbey Road don't come cheap).

Lastly – as you say, there are plenty of bands who release their work for free. In which case, support them, rather than material produced by a system you disagree with.

I suspect, like most people, you would disagree that a company or political party should be able to take an artists work and use it to advertise something – yet those

As for your comment about the music industry having no conscience, I sincerely believe this is an opinion you want to believe, rather than one founded on fact. Like any industry there are many firms, who all behave differently. It's hard to say that a firm that makes the effort to track down Black musicians of the 50s to ensure they get royalties from a 1000-2000 copy CD re-issue of some old 45 is lacking in conscience compared to someone who believes that not being able to have everything they want for free is affecting their 'rights'.

The reason, now, that I have not written this book myself, nor have I done anything else is because I do feel that I am not knowledgeable enough or otherwise prepared to do such things; sure, I can participate in such a movement, but there really needs to be an adept leader first, and I do not feel like I am up for the job.

Something constructive (like the book that has yet to exist) needs to be done first, and then the movement can follow.

I think that the creation of the internet has had a positive impact, in that we have loads more of information available to us, we can get a clearer and accurate idea of what's going on. However, a negative one as well, where being able to "voice" our oppinions on current matters in the comfort of our chairs, completely anonymously and fully knowing that at any point in our debate we can just "log-off" and disappear never to be seen again – well it takes the seriousness out of our words.

As it has been said before, sitting here and calmly trying to reason things out will get us nowhere. Virtual words on a random internet "blog" will put no pressure on anyone to take action. The government couldn't care less about a facebook group with half a million members entitled "Stop the war on Iraq". However, put those half a million in front of the white house and I can assure you it will change things. Actions speak louder than words.

So, curse you internet, but thanks for all the fish.

I agree with you there Roze, but please stop whining about how we have to do this and that, when these things have all been tried.

Roze "We need to start a social/political movement against the MAFIAA."

@Roze "Why not just join the U.S. Pirate Party?"

Roze "I think that a non-governmental organization has much greater chance of taking off."

Do you wanna be political or not?

Plus your idea of laywers and such volunteering and free money and things… that's already been done.

http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/

~ actions speak louder than words ~

j00 maid teh typo 2. =D

In that particular comment, I was actually stating that copyright is not necessary for artists to have a profit, nor does copyright enable profits for those who do not yet have much profit. Copyright, in fact, offers no monetary incentive whatsoever.

When you insist on taking away other people's rights, like taking away the right to copy and distribute one's private property like CDs, you are the one with the burden of proof, at least in a modern liberal society. So far, you have not proved anything about why copyright actually helps any of the small artists at all.

Copyright is not any incentive towards artwork like music. Inspiration is the incentive, and artwork like music would still be there even if there were no copyright.

There are plenty of bands, for example, that release their work for free already.

Steve Purdham.

Steve Purdham
CEO – We7
http://www.we7.com

http://musikmaniacs.blogspot.com

When you insist on taking away other people's rights, like taking away the right to copy and distribute one's private property like one's own CDs, you are the one with the burden of proof, at least in a modern liberal society. So far, you have not proved anything about why copyright actually helps any of the small artists at all.

Copyright is not any incentive towards artwork like music. Inspiration is the incentive, and artwork like music would still be there even if there were no copyright.

There are plenty of bands, for example, that release their work for free already.

Without any highlight, capper, or sense (which is your current state), everything shall be okay as you have the spirit and energy of 1, 2, ?! Since, after all, you are quite the ?.

Which is what I and many others have been saying all along that they should be doing.

Ahh, the business geniuses that run the music industry.

Complete fuckwits.

Also, copyright is not any incentive towards creating artwork, or creativity in general. Inspiration is the incentive, and artwork (and creativity) would still exist even if there were no copyright.

Funny that you should speak of conscience, when the industry itself is devoid thereof.

I think that a non-governmental organization has much greater chance of taking off.

I am thinking about starting a political lobbying organization for those who share. The MAFIAA does a lot of political lobbying already, so I think that it is time that the playing field is leveled, by doing some political lobbying of our own.

This would require a lot of money, but if each of us could donate to such a political lobbying organization, then I think there could be enough money to do such a thing.

However, any non-governmental organization in the United States requires many volunteers. I do look for volunteers who could help with such an endeavor.

I think that people are Frustrated, Mad, and are tired of what is going on. The time is now. If We don't move on this now, it Will be to Late.

"Yep, and when they are proved wrong the will later come back and totally reverse their position and act like they were for it from the beginning."

There's a little "TYPO" in your above statement…Should be "They" instead of the.

Stop acting like a Fucking Retard. Nobody Cares about a simple Typo. There are People from all over the world that come here and English isn't their Native tongue.
Stop with the "Grammer and Spell Check" Crap. DipShit.

tommy
http://unblockprox.com

There is only one ingredient necessary for a movement, and that is anger.

No social movement has ever taken place without anger. Look at the civil rights movement. Look at the gay rights movement. Look at the '60's anti-war movement. Look at the modern feminist movement. Are any of them without anger in them?

I find the lack of anger against the MAFIAA shocking. Because there is a lot to be angry about.

The reason that we the citizens against the MAFIAA are not being listened to is essentially because we are not angry enough. I mean, if we just sit here calmly, trying to "reason it out," how the hell is anybody going to listen to us?

Social movements are hard. They take time and energy, and sometimes serious risk of life and limb, community and career. Without anger, nobody would bother if they weren't furious about something.

If we just sit here, calmly, reasoning it out, nothing is ever going to get done.

We need to be more passionate, we need to be more angry, if we ever want to be heard, if we ever want to get anything done. Because there is definitely a lot to be angry about.

Frankly, pat on the back to you for reading that report, i cant get past the first page because its soooo damn one sided with dinosaur views and industry fantasy reports, makes me nauseous.

"But then again, they will find something else to complain about sooner or later."
Yep, and when they are proved wrong the will later come back and totally reverse their position and act like they were for it from the beginning.

Can't get slimier them them or lower than them… scumbags are lower than a snakes belly and slimier than the floor after a bukake shoot.

Cheers!
http://www.eZee.se

Frankly, pat on the back to you for reading that report, i cant get past the first page because its soooo damn one sided with dinosaur views and industry fantasy reports, makes me nauseous.

"But then again, they will find something else to complain about sooner or later."
Yep, and when they are proved wrong the will later come back and totally reverse their position and act like they were like it from the beginning.

Can't get slimier them them or lower than them… scumbags are lower than a snakes belly and slimier than the floor after a bukake shoot.

Cheers!
http://www.eZee.se

The problem is that the industry are basically the ones in charge right now, not the citizens. The reason for this is because the citizens are not organized yet – there is the U.S. Pirate Party, for example, but nobody really takes third parties seriously in the United States. The citizens need to be the ones to take control again, and the way for this to happen is for us citizens to organize and unify – into a group of Citizens against Copyright Holder Supremacists – or something like that.

The problem is that the industry are basically the ones in charge right now, not the citizens. The reason for this is because the citizens are not organized yet – there is the U.S. Pirate Party, for example, but nobody really takes third parties seriously in the United States. The citizens need to be the ones to take control again, and the way for this to happen is for us to organize – into a group of Citizens against Copyright Holder Supremacists – or something like that.

In light of all the things that industry has done, we need an organization to offer anybody sued by the RIAA free legal defense, and, in the case that they lose, to pay all the fines incurred. There is no organization like this as of yet.

In this organization, the lawyers can either be volunteers if there are any, and, if there are not, then the lawyer can be hired by the organization using the funding for the organization.

It is a very simple idea, and I think that it is one that we could start right now.

As for my part in such an organization, I can be a project manager, and even though I have never taken on this job, I can say that I can definitely contribute as project manager.

So, what do you people think about this idea?

Any help from someone who has any expertise on starting non-profit organizations in the United States would be appreciated.

The problem is not so much that other people should start a movement (since I could do that), but rather that other people must also support such a movement when one is started. After all, even if I do start a political movement, it does not sound too fruitful if nobody would support it.

After all, how am I supposed to find a board of directors for such an organization?