OiNK Down, Norwegian BitTorrent Trackers Next
Written by enigmax on October 24, 2007With the BitTorrent world spinning on its heels after the shock takedown of the huge OiNK tracker, there are now indications that the shutdowns may continue. According to the lawyer who lost against ‘DVD Jon’, next stop is Norway and raids are imminent.
Yesterday, the OiNK BitTorrent tracker was raided and shutdown, not by the MPAA but by real life, bona fide police, working hand in hand with industry association, the IFPI. The war against BitTorrent - usually played out on the civil law arena - has suddenly found itself in the criminal domain. The rules have changed.
With the whole BitTorrent community asking themselves what comes next, a clear indicator has come from a lawyer who works for the industry prosecuting file-sharers:
Norway is next and raids are imminent.
Espen Tøndel is a Norwegian lawyer well known for his legal defeat against ‘DVD Jon‘. He is currently working with the Norwegian branch of the IFPI and MPAA.
Tøndel says the Norwegian police are prepared and ready to carry out raids against Norwegian sites. Everything is in place.
When asked to identify the sites, Tøndel refused to elaborate other than to say that the investigation has been underway for some time and that enough names and evidence has already been gathered to make prosecutions in several cases.
When questioned about the possible fate of Norwegian members of OiNK specifically, nothing further was added other than to stress the close co-operation between British, Dutch and Norwegian police.
Tøndel also speculates on who might be prosecuted if the OiNK database is available to police. His thoughts range from suggesting people who upload and downloaded a lot might be in trouble, right through to ‘random individuals’. Or maybe there is another possibility?
Maybe the police don’t have usable lists.
According to the article, a source has stated that the OiNK membership list was not only encrypted, but also equipped with a ’self-destruct’ type mechanism which relied on a regular signal to continue in ‘OFF’ mode.
Although unconfirmed, this situation would be of some comfort to OiNK’s 180,000 members.
Previously: Why Are The IFPI and BPI Allowed To Hijack OiNK?
Next: P2PKids: Because We Care About Sharing
201 Responses
OMFG !!! HOW MANY TIMES DO HAVE TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT THE POLICE BUT THE FIOD-ECD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dutch tax inspection agency.
FUCK your hand in hand bullshit.
On who’s side are you !?
I guess Norbits is next…
[quote comment="194728"]
The dutch tax inspection agency.
[/quote]
The are the fiscal police :)
a ’self-destruct mechanism’ ?
more likely that they just stored the user database in volatile memory. Cops pull the power cord out and *POOF* user datase ’self-destruction’
With regards to your last point about the user list.. although it might not be true (though it is completely plausible), it does bring a smile to my face, knowing that the big guys might well have thought of everything.
..they are police..
How often do they think before they act in these matters??
They pull the power chords, and wooof.. RAM empties..
[quote]The war against BitTorrent …[/quote]
You mean the capitalist war against freedom?
Good. You’re all fucking criminals. Just because you hide behind a computer screen doesn’t mean you’re not a thief. Instant karma.
Yes FISCAL, but this is not about a fiscal matter, it is about piracy !
man i hope that shit’s encrypted. that would make me a happy guy :)
-having upped more than 250 gb
Dumb f&cks. OiNK down, some one will ope KNiO or something =D
Nay.
Us downloading music hurts no one except perhaps the ridiculously large bands.
For small bands piracy helps. It’s been proven again and again.
Music Piracy hurts the big fat rich music corporations (and even still, not much) and helps the little guy.
If you are a true “Music Lover” you should know this if you aren’t a bitch of the cotporation.
[quote]Good. You’re all fucking criminals. Just because you hide behind a computer screen doesn’t mean you’re not a thief. Instant karma.[/quote]
I’ve copied a digital file. How does your petty capitalist logic turn that into theft?
<3 OiNK.
That self-destruct idea kicks ass. I hope it’s true.
I feel weird though.
There are a million trackers and websites and FTPs and P2P programs where you can get new, mainstream content like Top 40 leaks. So these were nothing special to do with OiNK.
What made OiNK special was the obscure, underground, old, and out-of-print stuff.
And nobody is suing or raiding over that.
Are we worrying about the wrong problem?
No, we are not worrying enough.
There is only one thing we all can do, and that is join the local pirate party, and vote for them !
[quote comment="194728"]OMFG !!! HOW MANY TIMES DO HAVE TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT THE POLICE BUT THE FIOD-ECD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dutch tax inspection agency.
FUCK your hand in hand bullshit.
On who’s side are you !?[/quote]
Sorry, for my not so polite choice of words. Please excuse me. I was a little emotional, and over worked.
Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.
that dude looks a like Eichamn!
so whats the story with the likes of Pirate Bay and mininova.. surely these guys must be attracting huge attention?
if Oink emailed torrentfreak to say he was out of jail, why not email oink to see whether or not the police has the database or whether it was deleted when they pulled the plug on the servers
“Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags”
You’re a moron. Do some research.
[quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
Hahaha. Keep telling yourself that, buddy. Keep pretending that you’re somebody’s hero and that you’re saving musicians.
I’m pissed OiNK is down. The ridiculously public trackers should be taken down, not a private one like OiNK. Is there any chance it will ever return?
[quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
die please? kthxbye
[quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
uh, who unbanned media-defender ? :\
[quote comment="194747"]Yes FISCAL, but this is not about a fiscal matter, it is about piracy ![/quote]
The FIOD handles all copyright cases in the Netherlands, They are all about piracy.
looking at that guy makes me understand a bit why the music industry still lives in 1933 :f
[quote comment="194728"]OMFG !!! HOW MANY TIMES DO HAVE TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT THE POLICE BUT THE FIOD-ECD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dutch tax inspection agency.
FUCK your hand in hand bullshit.
On who’s side are you !?[/quote]
The police’s side of course. Seeing as most my family are cops I only see fit to be on their side but continuing my illegal activities seeing as the Intel from HQ will always keep me 2 steps ahead of thoughs idiots at the anti-piracy groups. As for IFPI… HA!! People don’t you get it? The people were pissed at OiNK for some time and it only seemed to create turbulence in the cyber community. Of course they were shut down. Will they return? hmm well lets just hope that this scare has taught them a lesson. It may not be over due to political reasons and the fact that the governments are more interested in “waisting” tax money doing this then getting to real crimes like murder. Just keep in mind. OiNK MOD’s and Admins all pissed a lot of people off and I’m not talking about anti-piracy groups, they pissed people off that have more control then thoughts groups. Mabby if other people were more like the sites that seem to be let off easy “example Demonoid” perhaps OiNK would still be online. Who knows right now, guess you will just have to keep watch over CNN and hope you hear it their before I’m msg’n you to leave the house now. X-D
You’re stealing from musicians and you know it. Just because it’s been easy and anonymous up to this point, doesn’t mean you’re not a scumbag thief.
I know what ones next. It’s a tv tracker btw. Try and guess.
[quote comment="194774"]so whats the story with the likes of Pirate Bay and mininova.. surely these guys must be attracting huge attention?[/quote]
Doubtful that anything will happen to Mininova since it is an indexing site and do not host any trackers. The Pirate Bay does have trackers in addition to indexing so they will more likely be targeted. But TPB was raided once with no success.
[quote comment="194782"][quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
Stealing music… that’s rich. Stealing. “When someone takes something that does not belong to them, from the person it bellonges to.”
I have never “taken” a track from a band. The track is still theirs. I just listen to it from my computer for free! ^^
[quote]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.[/quote]
Huh?
[quote]You’re stealing from musicians.[/quote]
I’m still waiting for the capitalist logic behind saying sharing is stealing.
You take advantage of the fact you can copy music, so instead of buying it, you steal it. Your stealing takes money from the record store, and the royalties for musicians.
Quit pretending you don’t know that already.
Espen Tøndel teh faggot b0y
[quote]
I’m still waiting for the capitalist logic behind saying sharing is stealing.[/quote]
Your ignorance of copyright law isn’t an excuse to be a thief.
“Honest officer, I didn’t know it was illegal to rob this man.”
Good luck with that defense.
[quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
Actually they are assisting the small bands promote their music. Instead of the small bands being forced to pay thousands of dollars/euros to get a record label and waiting for the label to finally launch. The free bands can quickly upload their music to the P2P world and get an honest opinion on their music.
This is how you build your listeners/fans.
I may be an asshole but hey, X-D I don’t give 2 shits.
THe biz is trying to make up for the profit they lost when they did not adapt to the changing market and tech. Did the post offices ever close down due to email?
Plain pathetic behaviour, they are service providers but do not aim to please the comsumer but prey on them.
cut polution, production costs and labour - give us high rez media on demand.
[quote comment="194795"]You take advantage of the fact you can copy music, so instead of buying it, you steal it. Your stealing takes money from the record store, and the royalties for musicians.
Quit pretending you don’t know that already.[/quote]
your mum stole george bush`s sperm, look where it got her… HAHA
[quote comment="194790"]You’re stealing from musicians and you know it. Just because it’s been easy and anonymous up to this point, doesn’t mean you’re not a scumbag thief.[/quote]
hmm good point… hows this email me your address so I can show you how much of a scumbag I am. X-D
What bullshit. Anyone can go to a bands website and see if they like their music.
Except instead of buying their music and helping them, you steal it.
You’re a scumbag thief.
That logic only works if you assume that someone would definitely buy a cd if they couldn’t download it. Most people either download stuff they’d never buy, or they buy stuff because they’ve downloaded it. The former isn’t taking money from the record companies, and the latter increases their sales.
[quote comment="194793"][quote comment="194782"][quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
Stealing music… that’s rich. Stealing. “When someone takes something that does not belong to them, from the person it bellonges to.”
I have never “taken” a track from a band. The track is still theirs. I just listen to it from my computer for free! ^^[/quote]
your not helping shhh
Have I ever stolen music: yes.
However, all of you who act like its the big capitalist pigs ruining the world get off your high horse.
It’s easy to talk but everyone acts like a capitalist.
Don’t like it? Move to China. If you’re there already, lol.
dude come up with something better than scumbag thief, thats 3 times now.
and the argument can be made that sites like oink exposed people to music they’d never hear otherwise.
but yea i don’t think you’re gonna change anyone’s mind here, so go back to digg and read about something else
[quote comment="194806"]Most people either download stuff they’d never buy, or they buy stuff because they’ve downloaded it. [/quote]
Oh yeah, that famous lie.
So everything you listen to is actually stuff you bought?
What a fucking joke. You thieves will do anything to try and justify your stealing money out of musician’s pockets.
[quote]You take advantage of the fact you can copy music, so instead of buying it, you steal it. Your stealing takes money from the record store, and the royalties for musicians.[/quote]
No, I have not taken any money from a record store. I’ve not taken anything from anyone. All I did was copy digital files.
Again, copying is not stealing. Stealing is practically non applicable on the internet.
Let’s say you have an apple. I take it from you. That’s stealing/theft. Lets say you have a CD. You let me copy it. That’s NOT stealing/theft.
Quit pretending you don’t know that already.
[quote] Your ignorance of copyright law isn’t an excuse to be a thief.
“Honest officer, I didn’t know it was illegal to rob this man.”
Good luck with that defense.[/quote]
What are you talking about? I understand copyright law.
Copying is still not theft.
Pathetic capitalist scumabags, more concerned with corporate profit and twisting words to suit corprate profit then freedom.
Music Lover, you’re such a troll. You’re on the internet acting like you’re all high and mighty. The only point to the internet is porn and stealing music. To further make my point you’re on a torrent related website. Clearly you’re just trolling to make yourself feel good.
The next thing you’ll try to say is that you’re a girl on the intarwebs.
“stealing money out of musician’s pockets.”
The record industry has already done that, if sharing music hurts anyone its the industry not the artist.
And lets face it, big record labels are dying and they’ve resorted suing and alienating their customers, i can’t wait till the day they disappear and music will become something to enjoy and not be shoved down our throats
[quote comment="194811"]come up with something better than scumbag thief, thats 3 times now.
[/quote]
It hurts to hear the truth, doesn’t it? Because you know you’re wrong for stealing.
[quote comment="194812"][quote comment="194806"]Most people either download stuff they’d never buy, or they buy stuff because they’ve downloaded it. [/quote]
Oh yeah, that famous lie.
So everything you listen to is actually stuff you bought?
What a fucking joke. You thieves will do anything to try and justify your stealing money out of musician’s pockets.[/quote]
Read the first part of my post, fucknose. Everything I listen to is either stuff I bought, or stuff that I wasn’t going to buy. I almost admire your selfless concern for the poor wickle music industry executives, but I really think you ought to piss up a rope.
Record labels aren’t going to die, because they are the ones that help a band tour, record, and promote their band.
Stop lying to yourself. You know you’re not just taking money from the labels, but the musicians too.
[quote comment="194817"]
It hurts to hear the truth, doesn’t it? Because you know you’re wrong for stealing.[/quote]
No its just funny you can’t be more original.
ha ha music lover is pissed off. thats funny. thats right keep bitching. nothings going to change the fact that the raid of oink changes nothing in the amount of music being downloaded right know:)
[quote comment="194816"\
And lets face it, big record labels are dying and they've resorted suing and alienating their customers, i can't wait till the day they disappear and music will become something to enjoy and not be shoved down our throats[/quote]
What they should be doing is giving a cut of the money they get from lawsuits to the artists who had their songs stolen. That would actually make sense. The labels, however, are simply money grabbing whores.
Music Lover, go shit yourself, please.
Most of the music i download would i probably never buy anyway, so how can they “loose” any money when i wouldn’t buy it in the first place? Those artist i really like i try to support, _IF_ i can, ‘coz most of the music that i want is hard as hell to find here, and expansive to ship from other country’s.
And an other thing, most of the music i’ve bought the last two years would i never had bought if i didn’t downloaded and listen to it first.
So go fuck yourself, piracy helps the small labels and artists. It’s those which i want to support, not the big fat assholes behind IFPI and such, which only create mainstream shit!
Yeah, the world is just full of rich music executives, huh? And they’re the only ones you’re stealing from, right?
Who the fuck do you think you’re kidding?
I got better stuff to do, have fun arguing on a site dedicated to bittorrent sites, i’m sure if you stay long enough you’ll win!
Good luck…
douchebag
[quote comment="194820"]Record labels aren’t going to die, because they are the ones that help a band tour, record, and promote their band.
Stop lying to yourself. You know you’re not just taking money from the labels, but the musicians too.[/quote]
Hey ass hole… things change, the future is here. People don’t need record labels to do any of thoughs things anymore. The internet is here and its something that WON’T go away. Now people can advertise, setup tours, and anything else they need.
As for taking money from musicians oh please. Who the fuck is going to use 100million dollars in their life time. Personally if we were to destroy the money system and go back to work for what you have, may haps things may change for the better.
[quote]What a fucking joke. You thieves will do anything to try and justify your stealing money out of musician’s pockets.[/quote]
You don’t actually believe that by sharing a pink floyd album that I am going to Roger Waters’ house and taking his money, do you? Are you honestly saying you can’t differentiate between those two actions?
So, let me get this straight here. You say that not buying an album for whatever reason is theft? So, lets say I don’t like rap music, so I don’t buy rap albums. I’m a thief for not buying rap albums now, right? I’m stealing from all those gangster idiots?
[quote]Stop lying to yourself. You know you’re not just taking money from the labels, but the musicians too.[/quote]
You’re saying I’m taking money from a band because I download their music. That’s the most pathetic excuse for a logical argument I’ve ever heard.
I’m not taking money from anyone. All the money that Pink Floyd had before I started downloading their music, they still have now. I’ve taken none of it.
Saying sharing is stealing is like saying a monkey is a cow. It’s not logical, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Music Lover, in the interest of full disclosure, which major label do you work for? Or are you a MediaDefender goonie?
it’s true. I won’t buy an album I haven’t listened to. (because I have before and know what a mistake it can be). And I also like having cindy lauper albums, but I would never in a million years buy one. I only buy albums that are so undeniably good, that they make me want to give the artist money.
[quote comment="194835"]
As for taking money from musicians oh please. Who the fuck is going to use 100million dollars in their life time. Personally if we were to destroy the money system and go back to work for what you have, may haps things may change for the better.[/quote]
Spare me your fucking retarded views on society. You haven’t done jackshit in your life to back it up.
Musicians depend on record royalties as well as touring to make money.
You only steal because you think you can get away with it. Now that the law is finally cracking down, there isn’t a soul alive that will feel sorry for your loser ass.
[quote]You only steal because you think you can get away with it.[/quote]
Keep repeating your pathetic little capitalist mantras.
Sharing is not stealing. I’ve taken nothing from the artists you claim I’ve stolen from.
Gredd,
I think hes just some idiot that has nothing better to do with his time then sit on a news forum repeating the same crap just to get peoples fuses lit.
Music Lover obviously is an idiot. I’m a musician and for A FREE scene. I’m not a capitalist and I don’t care about making money.
Music is a hobby and shouldn’t be a commodity.
That’s my opinion.. and it’s right.
If you want to support a band, buy a CD at their show or a T-shirt, or JUST BUY A TICKET TO A SHOW. I’ve spent a lot of money on CD’s over my lifetime, and you know what, I feel like I’m just treated like a petty consumer by multi-billion dollar executives. Fuck ‘em, they don’t deserve my money. I’ll give it directly to the band.
So, in closing… flame bait taken, You’re an ass.
Or a penis, not sure which.
I don’t work for a label and I don’t work for Media Defender. I work in a recording studio here in the US. 90 percent of my work is for smaller labels.
Downloading is killing these small labels. It is drastically hurting the income of the musicians. They no longer can spend all their time on music, but are having to take on menial jobs to pay the rent. This makes it harder for them to tour, as it’s difficult to get time off of work.
You people simply don’t understand the damage being done to music by piracy.
[quote comment="194820"]Record labels aren’t going to die, because they are the ones that help a band tour, record, and promote their band.
Stop lying to yourself. You know you’re not just taking money from the labels, but the musicians too.[/quote]
If you love music so much go donate some money to Britney Spears so she can buy a new 40 million dollar mansion. Crawl back to your RIAA masters and inform them you failed to convince people into buying suck ass music at overinflated prices. The day p2p goes away I hope you will enjoy paying $445.88 for a cd or movie since the cartel can charge people whatever they want without p2p to keep them in line. I also hope you enjoy watching your civil liberties striped away by the RIAA who want you to pay every time you listen to a song you can’t even play a radio at work anymore without getting sued for copyright infringement. Go one back home to the RIAA now little East German wannabe
[quote comment="194845"][quote comment="194835"]
As for taking money from musicians oh please. Who the fuck is going to use 100million dollars in their life time. Personally if we were to destroy the money system and go back to work for what you have, may haps things may change for the better.[/quote]
Spare me your fucking retarded views on society. You haven’t done jackshit in your life to back it up.
Musicians depend on record royalties as well as touring to make money.
You only steal because you think you can get away with it. Now that the law is finally cracking down, there isn’t a soul alive that will feel sorry for your loser ass.[/quote]
Ahh but that is were you are wrong…
1. its called diplomatic immunity.
2. They couldn’t catch a cold even if they were put in a germ infected room.
3. Its idiots like you that make me very angery and force me to take 2 valums instead of 1 so that I don’t track you down and eat your beating heart in front of you while you watch. :-)
oh as for not having done anything in my life to back myself up… hmm lets see… to what you know by looking up my name like the last group of idiots did will get you nothing as my alias that I use to post my projects is never the same.
Beware of the unknown.
:-)
[quote comment="194854"]I don’t work for a label and I don’t work for Media Defender. I work in a recording studio here in the US. 90 percent of my work is for smaller labels.
Downloading is killing these small labels. It is drastically hurting the income of the musicians. They no longer can spend all their time on music, but are having to take on menial jobs to pay the rent. This makes it harder for them to tour, as it’s difficult to get time off of work.
You people simply don’t understand the damage being done to music by piracy.[/quote]
you`re one dumb fuck, mediadefender fuck
[quote]You people simply don’t understand the damage being done to music by piracy.[/quote]
Could sharing hurt the music industry? You might be able to make a good argument for that, or a good argument against.
However, just because something might hurt an industry doesn’t make it theft. Summer hurts the ski industry, is that theft? Should it be illegal? Bad music hurts the music industry more then piracy could. Is bad music theft? Should it be illegal?
I’ve made my point. What you’re doing is wrong, and you know it. Don’t expect anyone to defend you when you get busted.
[quote comment="194859"][quote comment="194845"][quote comment="194835"]
As for taking money from musicians oh please. Who the fuck is going to use 100million dollars in their life time. Personally if we were to destroy the money system and go back to work for what you have, may haps things may change for the better.[/quote]
Spare me your fucking retarded views on society. You haven’t done jackshit in your life to back it up.
Musicians depend on record royalties as well as touring to make money.
You only steal because you think you can get away with it. Now that the law is finally cracking down, there isn’t a soul alive that will feel sorry for your loser ass.[/quote]
Ahh but that is were you are wrong…
1. its called diplomatic immunity.
2. They couldn’t catch a cold even if they were put in a germ infected room.
3. Its idiots like you that make me very angery and force me to take 2 valums instead of 1 so that I don’t track you down and eat your beating heart in front of you while you watch. :-)
oh as for not having done anything in my life to back myself up… hmm lets see… to what you know by looking up my name like the last group of idiots did will get you nothing as my alias that I use to post my projects is never the same.
Beware of the unknown.
:-)[/quote]WoW you admit you are on drugs. Someone please ban this nut already for making threats.
Last I heard idiot music is an art. Its people like you that support musicians whose only concern is money is what is wrong with this industry. If you want to make terrible music with no passion just in hopes of getting rich then go and work at wal mart for minimum wage you are a loser and a poor excuse of a musician. You shame all true musicains.
Music Lover I highly doubt youve contributed to society either.
First of all you saying that people who steal music would have bought it if they couldnt steal it is flawed, you cant say either way if they would have or not, some would, some would not have, but the fact is that a download is not a lost sale. We dont get to play the “what if” game with dollars, only “what is”.
Do you work for a record company? Thats who profits on cd sales, look at groups like The Who, who got ROYALY screwed by their record deal, so if I buy a cd I’m helping them? Hell no, Im helping the fat cat who screwed them.
Record companies are dying, more and more groups are seeing the hypocrisy of the businessmen, and going with independant labels or releasing music themselves through the internet.
You think I dont support musicians because I dont support the companies that leech of the talent? You think I dont respect what they do because I fail to see the point in dropping 15 dollars on a crappy cd? When I buy music, I never spend more than 10 dollars,period. You can go to target or walmart or whatever and find the music there, but I dont ever buy cds at those places, because its all big label stuff. I buy cds when I see people preform live, and I hope people like Muse and Buckethead come preform where I live so I can give THEM the money and not the talentless fatty who makes his living off of them.
Yes … I am on drugs prescribed to me by my doctor due to stress and nerve issues.
Don’t worry about the threat… its the internet… for now… :-)
[quote]What you’re doing is wrong, and you know it.[/quote]
I’m well aware that sharing is not wrong :)
You’re so pathetically arrogant.
shut the fuck up you bunch of boring bastards! Have you read the title of this thread lately?
Just write about what’s relevant will you christ?!!! Grrrr
[quote comment="194871"]Yes … I am on drugs prescribed to me by my doctor due to stress and nerve issues.
Don’t worry about the threat… its the internet… for now… :-)[/quote]Do yourself a favor and commit yourself to an institute the world can do without you.
Music Lover:
Stealing, by definition, involves removing something from someone else’s posession.
When I recieve a stream of bytes (encoded as light at the time it reaches my apartment), I am not taking anything. If I am, please sue the color black for being good at absorbing photons, which might be encoded music!
So what if labels die down, and small bands have to get jobs? I wasn’t aware you need to dedicate your life 24/7 to the music you’re making.
Go look at some statistics. The music world, as it stands, is not benefiting from the industry model - it’s continously being wrung for more cash, stifling any creativity you might find.
[quote comment="194854"]I don’t work for a label and I don’t work for Media Defender. I work in a recording studio here in the US. 90 percent of my work is for smaller labels.
Downloading is killing these small labels. [/quote]
Record better music then, longballs.
I have… they sent me home 2 days later stating that I was fine and that i should just continue my meds.
I just love how TorrentFreak posts always have some troll trying to piss off the masses.
Bring it on bastards
get um squirrel!!!
HA!!
Honestly now can we go back to how OiNK was Owned by their own stupidity but how the admin was smart enough to put in place that self distruct system.
I was in the pub last night, and a guy asked me for a light for his cigarette. I suddenly realised that there was a demand here and money to be made, and so I agreed to light his cigarette for 10 pence, but I didn’t actually give him a light, I sold him a license to burn his cigarette. My fire-license restricted him from giving the light to anybody else, after all, that fire was my property. He was drunk, and dismissing me as a loony, but accepted my fire (and by implication the licence which governed its use) anyway. Of course in a matter of minutes I noticed a friend of his asking him for a light and to my outrage he gave his cigarette to his friend and pirated my fire! I was furious, I started to make my way over to that side of the bar but to my added horror his friend then started to light other people’s cigarettes left, right, and centre! Before long that whole side of the bar was enjoying MY fire without paying me anything. Enraged I went from person to person grabbing their cigarettes from their hands, throwing them to the ground, and stamping on them.
Strangely the door staff exhibited no respect for my property rights as they threw me out the door.
Here is my two cents on the matter of file sharing. When I download music off of the internet am I stealing? I can see where you would think ‘yes’ because if I didn’t download it then I would have had to go to the store and buy it. The thing is though, that I am on too tight a budget to spend frivolous amounts of money on cd’s and music. Therefore, if I wasn’t downloading it on the internet, I would probably just go without the music. And… therefore I wouldn’t be purchasing the music anyways and so I am not actually depriving anybody of any money. I am a musician, albeit, not a famous or a rich one. If I had recorded works, I would want as many people as possible to listen to my music, whether they paid for it or not. Why? Because that would make me happy. Happy that there are people out there that dig my music. Music adds so much soul to our world. Would you deny poor people the joy that music brings to the world because they can’t afford it. While at the same time, Lars Ulrich is flying on private jets and spending money frivolously on nothing, but luxury items. What’s ridiculous about our society isn’t that millions of people download music for free on the internet everyday, but that people in the entertainment industry make as much money as they do, while people who educate and protect our values make next to nothing in comparison. And yeah, millions of people in America today download music for free on the internet. That’s a lot of scumbag thieves Music lover! Music lover my ass. Sounds like you like the sound of money more than the sounds of music.
[quote comment="194790"]You’re stealing from musicians and you know it. Just because it’s been easy and anonymous up to this point, doesn’t mean you’re not a scumbag thief.[/quote]
Stealing 20 cents from musicians, don’t worry I buy plenty of concert tickets, stealing 14.80 from fat corporate execs I like! You’re dumb, and stupid!
I wish I knew Norwegian so I could confirm if this article is valid.
if its true. many people are going to sleep easier.
[quote comment="194765"]Yeah, you like pretending you’re an anarchist while you sit in your parents house.
Stop lying to yourself. You’re stealing from musicians. Scumbags.[/quote]
ROFLROFLROFLROFL I hope you get signed to a major label just so you never smile again.
Wow,
Dont you love this stuff.
Music Lover, why dont you talk to all your friends and ask them what they think of the Major Labels turning down the oppurtunity they had to deal with Napster and change this Torrent culture before it started? Good decision or not? Torrents is like smoking, some like it, some dont, good for some bad for others. But do honestly think acting like a 10 year old on the internet is going to change a thing? America had prohibition which helped the mafia establish itself so when Prohibition ended they had the ditributon networks to go onto other substanaces. Well, these crackdowns only make it worse. Come up with a better ITunes or something, just dont sit there and cry like a baby OK?
R.I.P Oink
The void you have left will never be filled
Caell, you stole the words right out my mouth, erm.. borrowed.
stop the guff
cough up what you know Freak
or shut up
[quote comment="194900"]I wish I knew Norwegian so I could confirm if this article is valid.
if its true. many people are going to sleep easier.[/quote]
Find a translator, take some time to look it up.
I didn’t read anything in the article about the self destruction.
Translated, the best I could find.
Yesterday became facts close musikkfildelingsnettverket OiNK closed at police in Netherlands and Great Britain. Has all they need We stand facing a likewise storaksjon in Norway before , say advocate Espen Tøndel at ITavisen. Police has all they need. Now is it after all only to rap , say he. More cases Tøndel won’t say which network in question. Only that the investigation has aggressive long , and that certificates am difficult enough at to go to action. All am there. Both certificates and names. That is not only chat about a affair , but more. Police accomplishes now her own the investigation in addition to facts job we have done. Tøndel represent it Norwegian bough at it international platebransjeorganisasjonen IFPI International Federadion shame Phonographic Industrial ) and filmbransjeorganisasjonen MPAA Moving Pictures Association ). He has driven more cases against fildelere and pirater , and stayed also attorney as went issue against «DVD Jon» Jon Lech Johansen ). A affair he considers he savage won today , after that it new åndsverkloven arrived. Goes on the a few making use of Police and they British platebransjeorganisasjonene BMI and IFPI laws now that all as cast-off OiNK - network shall become was dedicating. At Oink.cd lie facts now consecutiv bid : This nettstedet has been closed as a accomplishment at the investigation as IPFI BPI Cleveland - police and dutch Økokrim carry out because shrewd idea about bad musikkdistribusjon. The investigation shall carry on about the identity and activities at nettstedets the user. A good deal of to come through British and dutch police has no matter a formidabel assignment ahead her. The number the user at facts close musikknettverket. how lots of them as am Norwegians , isn’t it in public famous. But if police sit on IP - the address , shall they have digest also above this. Acc fount as has the tip ITavisen stayed medlemslistene at Oink in point of departure encrypt , and additional equipped a selvdestruksjonsmekanisme as doing that they became canceled if they no matter by one interval obtain a appointed signal. Shall choose IN Norway concerns approximately additions fildelingslover as in Great Britain and Netherlands. With that shall Norwegian the user also stake complain of if they comes in police apply. It is the traditionally a almost co-operation between Norwegian , British and dutch police. Netherlands lie in affinity along with Norway in Schengen - area , as among other reasons add up to a almost co-operation about kriminalsaker. Police able artless enough no matter sue all. But about they getting access at personopplysningene at Great Britain , able they choose desultory enkeltpersoner. Or elapse after how much the individual has loaded up or down , define Tøndel. He know no matter about Norwegian police getting details about Norwegian OiNK deltakere at British police , but calculates facts no matter as urealistisk.
@ “music lover”:
I AM A MUSCIAN.
Get a life fuckface.
ok as much fun as it seeing everyone argue the same old points over and over. I must say that the lack of originality on both sides of this argument is getting old.
Both side needs to show true facts i.e . stats from impartial organizations. The “you all steal and the bands lose money” argument is useless unless you PROVE it! Same goes for ” most people who download, buy the music after”.
This war is about the middle ground and lets face it neither side is on the middle ground. Most consumers want reasonably priced no DRM music. The price should take into account the fact that downloading removes the cost of media and stamping that would be required to release something in an actual physical form.
$1 for a single songs is unproportionally high and the sooner the music industry learns this the sooner their profits will start to increase. Consumers aren’t stupid and don’t enjoy being taken advantage of.
I know this is falling on deaf ears but i needed to say this at least once
first of all, Espen Tøndel, if i ever see you walking down the street, i will shit on your chest…but by the looks of you, you’d probably like that, wouldn’t you?
second, music lover, eat shit and die. shut the fuck up. no one likes you
They’ll never stop pirates, just look at original pirates from olden days, nothing stopped them.
[quote comment="194795"]You take advantage of the fact you can copy music, so instead of buying it, you steal it. Your stealing takes money from the record store, and the royalties for musicians.
Quit pretending you don’t know that already.[/quote]
Actually you cant prove that I WOULD OF BOUGHT IT!!! I download it, doesnt mean i would gone to the store and bought the album. I dont buy a car before driving, I Wont buy an album before listening. THE MATRIX HAS YOU!!
here is an example “music lover,” i downloaded asterisk volume 4 which is by Qn5 music, a very small group of artists.
Because i downloaded this single album, and loved it, i bought it, i then downloaded 1, 2, and 3, as well as from surfing the web finding other albums that were connected to these artists and downloaded them, i then bought all of these albums that i loved
In all, i bought about 45 albums that i never would have even heard about, and still had select songs from the other 10 or so albums that i didn’t care for so much. As for say… the 50cent and kanye albums that came out recently, i downloaded both of them, strongly disliked all but around 5 tracks from both of them combined, then deleted all but those 5 tracks, You see, there is no way in hell i would buy both of those albums therefore kanye and 50 didn’t lose any money, but due to piracy many many different artists (i would guess 70 total) are sharing in the profits of my (45*10 about) $450 that they would never have, i also went to a concert with a few of them there, cost me around $80 total, are you telling me that i am stealing from the music industry?
Let’s say you write a book.
Someone buys one copy of of your book, makes a bunch of copies of it and gives a free copy to anyone who wants it.
Chances are very good that at least some of those people would have bought the book had they not been given a free copy.
So, no–it’s not exactly the same as stealing a CD from the store, but it is depriving an author or musician of income that they would have otherwise received. Sure, sometimes a lot of that money goes to a record company, but the author/musician would probably rather get $0.50 than $0.00.
I can appreciate the argument that OiNK had a lot of out-of-print material, but I am sure that there were plenty of people downloading stuff that they could have easily bought, but many just wanted to get stuff for free and don’t care about the musicians despite the cries of liberating music from the RIAA. The RIAA is a straw-man that has been used to justify ripping people off.
Also, I can assure you that many independent musicians (such as myself) are not thrilled at the idea of someone downloading their music and never paying for it. Sure, there are some who are happy to give everything away for free, but that’s their choice. Musicians should post their albums up on their websites in some sort of streaming format to let people preview it and decide if they like it. If they want the MP3s or a CD, then buy it directly from the artist. If you like someone’s music enough to download it, you should pay for it. This is fair.
Let’s assume that mr.musiclover’s claims are right. Then actually it’s the big corporations that are stealing from the muscians.
- By not having been more flexible in shaping the music industry’s distribution methods on time.
-By trying to obstruct any positive force that is trying to look at a useful and meaningful alternative to the current way royalty are paid to artists…
- By not giving the consumers what they want: decently priced good quality downloads. Without DRM.
What is the real problem?
A bunch of pricks in way too expensive offices realising that they have to change now that it is already too late.
THOSE are the guys that are stealing from the muscians.
If THOSE idiots would have had any vision, besides trying to sell us autotune-crap-poor-excuse-for-a-singer-titty-wiggling-drug-addict’s records they would have given us drm-free lossless downloads at a decent price with a choice that would be as wide as seen on a site like uhhmm.. OINK.
Thanks for your attention.
I’m norwegian and I visit the site that the article was posted on occasionally and in my opinion it’s of poor quality and I wouldn’t trust their supposed sources. It’s a tabloid for technology-news, with little insight and mostly just re-hashed articles from other sites designed to get hits.
As for Espen Tøndel he has tried to scare people before but nothing has ever come of it.
Oink will be missed. They had the most obscure music. You could find 60s garage that was ripped from out of print vinyl that was beautiful. There were numerous musicians getting their stuff on there and getting their name out.
What is stopping a pay for legal version of a thriving music community like this? A: The big labels seeking control. The community model was/is the best ever…
nice troll Music lover :D
you managed to take over the whole tread for a while, back there, respect. (lol)
But now back to the topic: Norway and torrent sites.
And that translation was gold as well..
This is were conspiracy begins…
They already seem to have the right to say that you were thinking of doing something even if they have no proof. So … lets put our heads together and see what interesting links will come from this.
also, for an example, if i were an aspiring artist (i am, just not music) i would want my stuff seen as much as possible. Small artitst cannot get onto itunes without paying apple, and cannot reasonably have albums distributed all over the nation, and moreso the world. I could have people download my music all they want, and if they like it they can go to my website (which they would have never heard of otherwise) and pay me for a copy of my cd, or a legit download, or whatever. Or they could come see me when i tour, pay me $45 that goes directly to me instead of paying $15 that i will MAYBE see $1 of.
“Small artitst cannot get onto itunes without paying apple”
You can get your music on iTunes through either CDBaby or Tunecore. You don’t pay Apple. They pay you.
Even if there was a “self-destruct” mechanism, it won’t work because investigators won’t boot the original computers during their investigation. Hard drives will be mirrored and examined with forensic software that will not harm original data. Encryption might help if they weren’t sloppy with passwords. And by sloppy, I mean any cached or deleted password string that can still be scraped off the hard drive could be used to attack an encrypted file or database. I don’t mean to be grim, but that’s just how these technologies work.
I had an oink account too, and while I am lucky that I only used it to read a few forum posts (hardly illegal), I know this sucks for everyone. If you have reason to believe that you could be targeted, please take emergency steps now to protect yourself and your users while you still can.
The normal forensic procedure is to unplug a computer to prevent changes or “self-destruct” type mechanisms from having a chance to run, so if you have an encrypted partition, this would be a good way to prevent anyone from accessing it after it is turned off. Passwords should be remembered because paperwork can also be seized. You might also consider adding a self-destruct script if it is not shut down using a special method, in case they decide to take that route (don’t accidentally trip it yourself!). Be creative, but remember that it can take hours to wipe large drives. Chances are you only have a few minutes, so choose your targets appropriately - you have to physically overwrite files. You should probably also take extra steps to encrypt all of your backups. No point in having everything else secured and your backups in cleartext.
Good luck everyone. P2P will continue despite these setbacks, but that’s little comfort for anyone facing legal trouble. Stick in there and do what you have to.
[quote comment="194768"]that dude looks a like Eichamn![/quote]
Adolf Eichmann?
I don’t recommend attempting to encrypt your data as an attempt to evade investigators (if it comes to that). There will be tell-tale signs that the data has been tampered with. The last thing you need is “obstruction of justice” added to your rap sheet.
It’s not obstruction for you to encrypt your own data. Suppose someone broke into your home and stole your computer while you were away. Encryption is a totally normal way to protect yourself.
just threw a few bones to oinkybank.com
it pisses me off when capitalistic stooges like musiclover equal sharing to stealing. sharing is copyright infringement.
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a person copies a file, that he would have never purchased, has any theft occured? Was someone harmed? Did someone lose anything?
Really, if someone stole his neighbor’s car, so he no longer had possession, there is a material loss.
The entire argument of media download PRESUMES that there is a LOSS (of revenue). Something can only be considered “theft” if someone loses something. They continue to throw out HUGE monetary losses because people are “stealing” this media. However, most people that truly want something (a CD or a movie) will still buy it. But the mass of people who download (copy) a file, there is NO LOSS to any party, since that person would have NEVER bought the media in the first place… so NO LOSS (THEFT) OCCURED.
Nobody lost anything. The original file is still held by the original party. No money loss occured because the person who obtained a loss-free copy would have never purchased it in the first place.
Every single band i have ever met and talked to, ranging from the local ones, to the huge mtv bands has said the same thing.
They would way rather have you “steal” the music from the internet, and just have you come to a show and pick up a shirt. Selling records doesn’t make them money, its all in the concerts and other merchandise
yea, whoever wrote the copyright law has there shit fucked up.
Music Lover..i’m not going to argue whether or not sharing files its legal or not…so they got one site…not much of change by doing so…
But you seem to want to defend the musician…are you lobbying for them? do you know they get the less percentage when it comes to CD sales?
and that is why they have to tour and get sponsors..like pepsi, skin care..etc…to supplement a life style that the average joe does not have…
but when musicians need to sue to get out of a contract with a label company…and wonder why? because they are stealing from them…if you are going to defend musicians do it all the way…not just bitching at a forum…whats the point…
boohoo we are going to get cought…what an impact your words make..file sharing will never die…its the future dude…its that simple…
but this label companies fight anything that might affect them..they did it when the cassette player/recorder cam around..VHS Tapes..etc…just giant chickens…they may win some battles…but never the war…
Adios…
“If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a person copies a file, that he would have never purchased, has any theft occured? Was someone harmed? Did someone lose anything?”
In theory, if they never would have bought the music anyway, then no–no one gets hurt. Of course, not EVERY download is a lost sale, but many of them certainly are.
If someone was planning to buy a book, but you give them a bootlegged copy of the same book, the author loses that income.
If you like someone’s music enough to want to download it, most musicians would prefer that you pay them for it. Especially, if they are independent. Major label artists get advance royalties for their records, so their relaxed attitude toward file-sharing is misleading. They already got most of the money that they will ever get, so what do they care? That is usually not the case for an independent artist.
It is a myth that most artists make money from touring. In many cases, they are PAYING to be included on tours. Many larger bands are now demanding fees for the privilege of opening for them, and opening shows for larger bands is traditionally how smaller bands get new fans. Even if they are touring on their own, they still have to quit their day jobs. They still have to pay the bills, they have to pay for gas and whatever else comes up. People don’t realize how hard it is to make any money on the road, because they are used to seeing bands that sell out big clubs or even arenas.
This stealing conversation’s going nowhere fast. Some people think everything’s cut and dry in their own views… in fact, most people do. What one sees as a heinous act might be viewed by another as a noble cause, or some such thing (I’m out of decent analogies right now, I think it’s the torrent withdrawal). It’s not like breaking the law has ever been purely a good or evil thing, so meh. You violate copyright laws (which is all it is, legal-wise, by the way, since stealing in no way equates to sharing legally purchased products in any way and is therefore a moot argument), whatever. There’s no getting around it, since the laws are written. It’s simply your choice to comply or not. I, for one, don’t. Not for any sort of moral standard or sense of rebellion: I simply know what I intend to do, and getting music falls into place with that. If corporate doesn’t like it, then I just have to make sure I don’t get stupid and get caught. If you don’t like it, that’s cool, I’m glad you have an opinion. Don’t bastardize me for it. Later.
Aren’t copyright laws supposed to prevent the theft of ideas or concepts? What I mean is that if I wrote a book and used an entire paragraph/chapter from say a Stephen King novel without citing him and/or paying royalties, that would be copyright infringement correct? Or maybe if I was in a band, and we wanted to record a song by Black Sabbath, I would have to pay royalties for rights to record and reproduce their music right? As far as I know, that is what copyright protects.
I think there’s a huge gray area when it comes to distributing digital copies of music. We need to decide what a copyright REALLY protects. The original artists right to distribute their material, or the right of the artist to receive credit or payment for the use of their material, or something else entirely.
I think this whole situation says a lot about how we as nations allow our governments to respond to the bitching and moaning of big business. Why are we letting them have such enormous influence over our supposedly democratic rulers?
“British and Dutch police today shut down the world’s biggest source of illegal pre-release chart albums and arrested a 24-year old man in an operation coordinated between Middlesbrough and Amsterdam. ” That’s from BPI’s web site. So, they’re touting that they got the bad-guy pre-releasers. Hmmm. So soon after Springsteen’s big release. I smell Sony busy at work!
[quote comment="194745"]Good. You’re all fucking criminals. Just because you hide behind a computer screen doesn’t mean you’re not a thief. Instant karma.[/quote]
I’m assuming you’re the same troll as Musician, whose posts litter the first OiNK takedown article? Don’t you have anything better to do – like jerk off to photos of Mitch Bainwol? Your comments are about as welcome as Mel Gibson’s dad at a Bar Mitzvah.
Now, kindly fuck off.
You can not steal what you can’t touch. Stealing involves taking a physical item away from its owner; the owner loses the item forever. A copy, authorized or not, never destroys the original. If you make an illegal photograph of a famous painting, the painting remains intact. We could argue why it is illegal to take a picture on the first place, and who is benefiting. If i show the picture for free outside of the gallery, am i depriving the gallery of funds because the people are no longer going in and paying the fee? Should we defend the gallery owner at the expense of not letting the masses free access to the culture? Those with money will go to the gallery anyway, because its not the same experience. Same occurs with music; if your band is worth it, people will buy the disc and go to their concerts no matter if its available on the net for free, or if they sold their souls to a major label. P2P real issue for you “Music Lover”, is the fact that now small Indies are at the same level of the big fat man. In fact, the more the technology advances, the less is needed for the middle fat man to exist anymore. That is your real problem, you are scared because your obsolete business model is going down; and no lawyer and police armies will stop that. For each server you take down, 10 more will surface. For each technology you poison, 10 new and more robust ones will appear. Anonymous p2p is improving, and your actions can only help it even more. Thanks for your existence, but get real, your job is not going to last. Just a message for all “MediaDefenders” and all the hypocrite mercenaries of the corporations. It is a matter of numbers: you are few, we are millions.
pretty soon they arent going to teach sharing in pre-school anymore because it might be considered stealing.
“Just a message for all “MediaDefenders” and all the hypocrite mercenaries of the corporations. It is a matter of numbers: you are few, we are millions.”
The RIAA & the MPAA may be few, but the combination of all copyright owners (books, music, movie, software, IP, etc.) is considerable. In addition, many of these companies are owned by giant conglomerates and much of this media is sold through giant retailers (as well as small retailers) and there are millions of shareholders that hold stakes in these companies.
It is romantic to think that a few computer geniuses can forever outsmart all of these people, but in the end, the future of p2p will be decided by legislation, not technology. And that is why the fat cats will win. When Napster first came out, people were saying that the RIAA will be dead in five years. It’s been ten and they are still around (although they are obviously struggling). In five years the RIAA & and MPAA and their cronies will still be around. I will be surprised if the Pirate Bay or any significant tracker is still around. Unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material (note: I did not say “stealing”) will be relegated to isolated pockets, just like the home taping days.
“Same occurs with music; if your band is worth it, people will buy the disc and go to their concerts no matter if its available on the net for free”
I wish that this was true, but I disagree. Some people will still buy the CD, but most will simply download it for free, and that will be that.
Culture has been liberated from physical forms and concepts, charging for art and the means to create it in this new world of infinite, freely made copies is more corrupt than anything else.
If an artist’s main concern is payment, their work is more than likely not worth seeing or hearing. Commercial sycophants be damned, this is progress; the resources to propagate art and information have been removed from the hands of those who would make it a commodity unavailable to those who cannot pay.
“If an artist’s main concern is payment, their work is more than likely not worth seeing or hearing.”
Just because someone is willing to do something for free does not mean that they are the best at it.
A lot of good music was written by musicians who were substantially motivated by money. The idea that good musicians are some sort of saintly breed of bohemians who don’t care about money is false. They are no more or less greedy than any other professionals.
“Culture has been liberated from physical forms and concepts, charging for art and the means to create it in this new world of infinite, freely made copies is more corrupt than anything else.”
This is nothing new. It has been possible for some time to inexpensively make copies of other people’s work. Unscrupulous publishers have been bootlegging the work of authors for centuries, at no cost to the original author. They often got busted then. The more things change the more they stay the same.
oinkybank is really rakin in the cash it looks like
oink is going to be able to afford OJ’s lawyer soon
the official oink memorial shirts, stickers and buttons:
http://www.cafepress.com/neverforgetoink
i was in the top 25 up and down loaders at oink and i am so glad it is now off because it was a full time job to share these terabytes. now, at last, i have time to listen to bach, mozart and beethoven full works.
the rest of my backup process of this planet’s music will wait until the copyrights die.
p.s. anyone with a full discography of dave brubeck or other stuff i still don’t have please tell me at chooseit40 at hotmail dot com, your wishes will be my command
free the music or might as well get your cochlea amputated!
Wow. I found a whole motherload of Dave Brubeck right here, DRM free even!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_dmusic/104-0086134-4564756?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Ddigital-music&field-keywords=dave+brubeck&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
“the future of p2p will be decided by legislation, not technology”
Nope. Downloading is illegal in some countries, yet, most people downloading are from THESE countries (ie. USA). So napster went down, it used a central server, located in that country. Now we have decentralized p2p, so they switched going after the peers themselves. Then Anonymous p2p will eventually make that very difficult, so they will try switching to your hardware (DRM, TCA, etc) and yet we will respond with open source free software and hardware, and ways to modify hardware to make it work they way we want and NOT let them control us.
TPB has shown that laws are not the same everywhere, the large corporations would like them to be, just like they are in USA where they throw an unlimited amount of money to make laws to their benefit (not the people). Then they will try to force this with trade agreements, the wipo (wto), etc. But the people will resist, and in some countries politicians do have to listen to their voters; not to mention how bad it looks when USA is discovered involved in internal affairs.
Take a look to Russia, Microsoft wanting to send to jail a School principal for having unauthorized copies of their products; causing the ire of all the russian political spectrum. Now Russia is officially promoting open source free software in schools. Can you see it? The more they mess with the world, the worst it becomes for them.
The large corporations just don’t get it, but its becoming a fight of the people vs them. They think they are teaching a lesson, instead, they lose what little pr the had so fast nobody will care if they ever go bankrupt. In fact i predict many people will celebrate the closure of some major labels. Of course due to capitalism, they will probably shrink from 4 to 3, then to 2 and then to 1 vs the world. Kinda like Microsoft seems to dominate the market today, but will disappear tomorrow.
“Downloading is illegal in some countries”
Sorry to be a nerd, but I don’t think downloading is illegal anywhere. It’s unauthorized distribution that is illegal. You can download anything you want.
I know it seems like the technology will just keep evolving and will be unstoppable, but it will get to a point where it is simply too inconvenient and risky for most people to bother with. There will always be some hard-core fuck-the-system types, but it will be much more scattered and underground.
Once the RIAA gets their heads out of their asses and allows their entire catalogs to be sold DRM-free at a decent bitrate, most people will move in that direction. The RIAA really shot themselves in the foot by embracing DRM to begin with. DRM only discourages people from buying music.
microsoft will not disapear for some time, and is the lesser of two evils, yes, linux is better in most forms, but windows is emensly greater than apple. You can customise millions of things in windows that you can’t on apple. Take photobooth for example, excelent program, but it’s got the same (17?) default picture modes, you cannot get any more, i have tried. There are atleast 10 programs i know for windows that can do this same thing, and they all have more than the apple in versions of pictures you can take. You can also customize these programs (since most of them are opensource) and add your own.
Other than that, yes the industry is losing the war on piracy, and yes, i am glad. Justathought, there are people selling copies of classical music that noone owns the rights to… that’s not right. I can see if i go to a record store and buy an LP or a CD and pay a little cash for it to physically own it, but to pay for a copy.. over the internet! of classical music! with no form of protection laws governing it! imagine that, i could start up my own site as long as i find a bunch of recordings that no one owns the rights to and COPY these, still have them to listen to and sell the copies to people and make a profit. It’s not my work to make a profit off of, but i would feel insulted if someone who bought my copy turned around and started selling copies of their copies, right? what’s to say they are not selling my original file? this is the basis of most idiots i’ve argued with over why piracy is wrong, i’m currently writing a paper on it, i’ll try to post it somewhere it’ll be a great read.
and i really apologize for my spelling errors, grammar fuck ups and syntax redundancies, I’m currently sick and a bit high on Robitussin
Millions of shareholders? So what, its capitalism. Once they see the ship sinking, they will sell their shares and invest in more promising ventures, such as telecommunications (gotta move all that content).
As an investor, it would be very stupid of you to invest on something you know its going down; because a new technology made that business model obsolete. It has happened all the time in history, why would the labels or studios of today get special protection now, and how long you think that protection will hold?
Something tells me, that even with all that rampant uncontrolled content moving on the net, these guys will still remain. Maybe not so many, maybe with less than huge profits; perhaps they will even start making quality films (or God forbid, quality music) instead of just throwing money to variants of the same boring things they consider “safe” to fund. Perhaps with so many going independent they will be forced to soft their draconian contracts, or release their iron grip in the distribution channels, etc. Or they can sink and let more open minded people prosper. Time will tell, but p2p will stay, and prevail.
can you copyright the alphabet or the scales on a musical instrument?
once society got in a glut of media (alphabetical or instrumental note or visual or dna or else sequences) supply, its value and mostly cost, somewhere in the way decreased dramatically. admittedly its unpleasant credit-attributionwise to subgroups owning creation rights, but a satisfying system of timedecayed retribution can be devised to compensate. wonder why not active yet?
downloading many things are illegal in china, haha! aswell though, it seems that to learn through history, we must realize that criminals always find a way, it’s why we’re still around today. Sure, societies of criminals will be erradicated, but stronger and worse criminals will still roam free. Imagine if the trillions of dollars spent each year to stop victimless crimes such as drug use, consumption laws, age restrictions, and piracy were saved. We would have trillions of dollars a year to spend EITHER increasing the effectiveness of various aspects of the economy, or stopping real criminals, both locally, such as murderers, and internationally large criminals, tyrants, who commit genocide, etc. I am currently working (slowly) on a website revolving around the idea of overpunishment to compensate for criminals not caught, PD’s first law of example making. (anyone who is skilled in website making, or wants to donate (non monetarily) in the project including research, beta-testing, and actual programming(since i suck ass at it) are welcome to email me at pimpdoubt@gmail.com) Please feel free to contact me here for any reason, as i’m sure someone is going to send me a “your dumb” email.
i agree with the most recent anonymous. Saying taht Shareholders will protect the industry is very similar to saying that airplanes will never work since there are too many people who have invested in trains.
“Justathought, there are people selling copies of classical music that noone owns the rights to… that’s not right. I can see if i go to a record store and buy an LP or a CD and pay a little cash for it to physically own it, but to pay for a copy.. over the internet! of classical music! with no form of protection laws governing it!”
The music may have been made hundreds of years ago, but those recordings were not. It probably cost serious dough to hire an orchestra and make those recordings. That’s what they are charging for. The music is public domain, but the actual recordings are a separate matter.
You can always record your own version. Hire your own orchestra! They don’t own the music. It’s public domain.
yes, work was done, but creativity was not. Creativity is what needs to be paid for in the music industry, as any art industry.
“Saying taht Shareholders will protect the industry is very similar to saying that airplanes will never work since there are too many people who have invested in trains.”
You have to get away from this idea that it’s just music and movies. Shareholders can’t easily just ignore rampant copyright infringement because a substantial chuck of the economy relies on copyright.
The most likely outcome of all of this is the one proposed by the EFF, where everybody has a fee built-in to their ISP bill and just downloads whatever they want. Musicians sign up to the service and the pool of money gets distributed according to their percentage of downloads. It will be basically be like interactive cable TV and radio combined. Maybe the bittorrent protocol will be used as a the delivery mechanism.