The best system would be to let the artist decide whether or not to give the content away. Unknowns would give away their content for publicity purposes. Once they became popular, they would start charging. This would create a continuous flow of talent from the bottom to the top, and be better both musically and financially for everyone.

“I don’t support any artist whatsoever even if I really love their work.” Wow! Well then guess what? You should stop consuming the work! If you don’t want to buy it, don’t use it.

Whether or not artists are independent, they deserve to be paid for their work. The reality is that it’s certainly not easy for artists to remain independent, as the costs of funding their own projects are extremely prohibitive (especially if someone like you won’t pay for it even if you like it). But even artists on labels today are often struggling financially. Beyond your handful of MTV celebs, the vast majority of working musicians, whether or not they’re on a label, don’t make a huge profit. I’m an independent musician, with friends who are both on and not on labels. The ones on labels have better distribution, but are struggling just as much.

I get that people feel like the labels are screwing people, and for a long time that was true, but 99 cents (or even less with some online retailers) is not too much to ask for a song that even for a small, unsigned indie like myself, may have cost a couple of thousand dollars to record.

Maybe you don’t download any independent music, and think all label artists are rich, so you simply don’t care. However, you need to realize that with most recordings or films, the retail price reflects not only the physical cost of manufacturing, but the paychecks of every person involved with making the record or movie.

Here are a few of the people you screw every time you steal (and downloading illegally is stealing) a song or movie:

-The recording engineer
-The mastering engineer
-All the side player musicians who are not the name artist but who make their living playing on other people’s records
-The graphic designer who put together the artwork

For film:
-The non-name actors and extras who do not make big money but pay their bills this way
-Costume designers
-Set designers
-Gaffers
-Grips
-Production assistants
-Film editors
-Sound editors
and scores of other people.

These are ordinary people who make modest salaries but don’t make anything at all when people stop making records or movies because no one is buying them. Sure–those folks get paid up front, but there’s less and less work for them.

Yes–there’s a lot of corporate crap that gets churned out, but there’s also a lot of great art. You yourself said you enjoy a lot of what you download. Problem is, when you download it instead of paying for it, there’s that much less work for designers, editors, engineers, and thousands of people whose skills and hard work make the works you enjoy downloading possible. When the industry loses money, there are less jobs for all of us.

No one’s asking you to pay for crap. But if you enjoy something, you should pay for it. It’s only fair. You simply do not have the moral high ground here. A 99 cent download is NOT the equivalent of a $30 local bus ticket, so let’s put that poorly thought-out analogy to bed.

I’m not terribly keen myself on the invasion of privacy involved in the current plan, but clearly people who produce creative work need to be protected from people who feel morally justified in downloading work without paying. Downloading and making copies is different from say, lending a friend a book or a CD to listen to. It’s once you’re offering something for download–thereby allowing huge numbers of people to make copies, that you’ve crossed the line into distributing. Heck, I don’t even think it’s a big deal to make a copy of something for a friend or two. But when you put something on a P2P network where hundreds of people can get it without paying, that’s a huge problem, because the lost revenue becomes significant. Personally, I think the best solution at the moment is to go after P2P networks. Most of you will balk at that as well, but frankly, copyright owners have to stand up for ourselves somehow because our entire livelihood is at stake, and while some sharing among friends is caring, never paying for anything and putting other people’s work online for download is not caring. It’s telling the very artists whose work you enjoy and all of the other people who make their living in the music and film industries to go f*ck themselves. And that’s not very nice of you.

What are you talking about? Why will an alternative distribution method (ie. p2p) improve artistic content. If you’re saying that artists will produce better content without copyright and or large companies doing distribution I call bullshit because this can and does happen now – except this kind of art isn’t popular. For the vast majority of popular art in the music and movie areas there is a large corporate behind it. If you don’t like it fair enough but that fact is that millions of people who are just as intelligent as you or I do consume it. They wouldn’t if they didn’t like it.

Do you believe that artistic works have improved since the advent of p2p – because I consistently see people saying the reason they don’t want to pay for music and movies is because they are low quality horseshit. This isn’t my view, I just download because I can and I prefer to save money and have the immediacy of having it sooner than otherwise – I enjoy much of what I download.

There’s a tendency for many over-zealous people that post here to crap on about the “poor artists” being “controlled” by the “corporate fatcats” – which is horseshit. As I posted before, artists are not stupid and the vast majority who produce music and movies aspire to be signed by major labels because there are large tangible benefits to them including large amounts of money not available otherwise and promotion – this isn’t me being a mouthpiece for the MPAA or anyone else, it’s what happens in reality.

I trust you noticed that in this and other posts I have stated that I haven’t purchased anyhting for years that I can download and I download everything I can that I want: music, movies, books, comics. I don’t support any artist whatsoever even if I really love their work.

However I don’t blatantly ignore reality of what happens in the real world and I don’t pretend that a small number of artists that don’t wish to be represented by major labels means jackshit in terms of the majority of artists.

The laws mentioned means, among other things, that pretty much everyones communications through the net will be logged and stored. Have you got anything you don’t want to share with the world? Tough luck. It will be there to be found.

It will also endow private companies with rights to act pretty much as a police against suspected downloaders. It can be abused, it has been abused, and it will be abused.

It has moved far beyond piracy, Piratpartiet is fighting against what looks ever more like a 1984-ish sociaty. We call it Bodströmsamhället after a politician that pushes for these changes.

So yes, it is very much a civil rights movement.

@everyone
?So you propose 0 plus nothing.?

When companies do something wrong, there is no need to compensate for anything when it is necessary for them to stop. There is no need to compensate either. Let those companies figure out for themselves what they should do to make money. Why should anyone else be responsible for how they make money?

Roze

If need be, yeah. Why? Because the fuckin’ lobbyists couldn’t be content with the original, genuinely “limited” term of 14 years in most jurisdictions. If you don’t get this, like I said, then you’re an idiot, and you deserve to be fleeced by these corporate vermin.

And yes, unfortunate that many of the indie “labels” are even worse than the majors, but the problem there is that copyright law exists, and provides for “works for hire”. Most “label”-based releases — whether “indie” or major, are classified as “works for hire”. Thus, the “artists” you IP-defending types are always bleating about are, contractually, little different than Wal-Mart greeters or some guy employed by Walgreens.

That’s the problem: the viewpoint that says that “content creators” can/should be somebody other than who holds the “rights” to distribution. Not to mention the ever longer copyright terms. Life plus 70? Like I said, fuck you.

A passive income-stream for corporate CEO’s vs. the public domain? Public domain every time.

Now stop reflexively defending corporate lobbies, and actually think for a few seconds.

I’m pretty sure “Reasoned Mind” used to go by “Sam I Am” — same kind of nonsequitur, RIAA spew interspersed with Net-speak (so he can sound “with it”).

Go ahead, keep defending the RIAA idiots. Then when they succeed in “owning” everything cultural in perpetuity, gutting the Internet, destroying any remaining “right to privacy”, and banning personal recording devices, we’ll see how nice of a world it becomes.

All that, just to defend the monopoly power of a few already-wealthy corporate megaliths.

If you actually sign with a label — ANY label — you’re fucked.

But at least you’re being consistent…

Roze

Not sure why the chick gets naked and takes a shower, but good to see aXXo celebrated.

100% with No.7

I’ve enquired about signing up in my own country and I hope this is the start of something good. Thanks for making me aware of it.

And to those who disparage the idea that this is a civil rights movement, I can only say that you and I are opponents.

Share on!

jess
http://www.anonymity.cz.tc

That’s the way for the industry to go.

You’re at the age when you’re too young too know any better, too naive to realise your not smarter than everyone else (Mummy and teachers say that your intelligent to reinforce you’re low self-esteem I bet) … or how thick you sound I guess Jacob.

Suffice to say you sound like a moron: I hate to break it to you but it doesn’t get much freer than New Zealand so if it’s that bad then your shit out of luck.

Most of the comments assume that Pirate Parties just talk about Copyright issues. Well, you are WRONG.

¡¡There’s also the PRIVACY issue!! And that issue is so fuckin’ important that it’s comparable to givin’ back their rights to black people.

It was interesting to read Richard Falkvinge’s words regrading what the Pirate Party stands for and I certainly support this standpoint but I have to ask is this *really* why they’re running this campaign? The fact that they have the name Pirate Party seems to allude to the fact that they are focused on changing laws to allow what is currently copyright infringement to be legalised and doesn’t indicate this broader agenda.

@33 : “Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.”

“Real artists”? What the hell gives an artist that attribute – whether you think they’re “cool” or not? Like it or not there are many millions of people who like artists that you do not and whether you think the content is rubbish doesn’t change the fact that many millions like Britney Spears (for example) and gain pleasure from her music. Hard to believe but people don’t purchase/download music they don’t like.

Another thing wrong with your statement is this: if it’s so advantageous to release music (for example) through means other than major record labels why is it the case that the vast majority of artists do not aspire to do this? After all it isn’t hard these days to do this. It is extremely rare for any artist releasing content through a website or P2P to gain any significant amount of money or recognition. I can think of 1 offhand: Basshunter (who is crap IMO) and there’s no doubt others but it’s very much an exception to the rule. Basshunter only gained so much recognition anyhow – because he signed up with a major label: Sony BMG I think. So that model wasn’t working for him.

You only have to look at the evidence to see that joining a major label has real and tangible benefits to artists: they are not stupider than you and I, they act in their own self-interest and an enormous proportion aspire to join major labels. Not small labels and they don’t release their material through websites.

In any case, I suspect the level of piracy would be the same regardless of which avenue they choose to use and the majority of people who download their music would not pay a dime to the artist; much like now.

Also, much as I hate to burst people’s delusions about “corporate fatcats” at major labels getting rich off artists, the fact is that artists at small, independent record labels are paid far less than artists at the major labels.

In Sweeden the two major parties are nearly always neck and neck. They want to form a large enough party so they are a wedge in the pie chart. That way for either of the big two to get into power they will have to form a joint party with them. This way they can get their issues (Copyright law and Privacy) onto the table. The pirate party does not want to rule, they want to make changes! And this is the way they can really do it.

Dress it up all you want, the whole “movement” (lol) amounts to nothing more than self-entitled nerds wanting a free lunch.

You’re not “freedom fighters” you’re just “freetards”.

@ All readers
Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.

@ Roze
Some of us introduce people to bit torrent as a form of action & also educate about the slavery that the mpaa/riaa pushes :}

@retarded mind/mafiaa puppet/
You just dont understand that your days of facilitating mind numbing, spirit crushing content for a over inflated price are over

@ All readers
Should only be a matter of time until all the real artists release directly to the consumer via the web whether its bit torrent or otherwise, they have been doing it for years as it is by starting their own labels so they dont have to pay the corparate whores who also fleece them of the money that the consumer pays for the hard work that the real artists have put in.

@ Roze
Some of us introduce people to bit torrent as a form of action & also educate about the slavery that the mpaa/riaa pushes :}

@retarded mind/mafiaa puppet/
You just dont understand that your days of facilitating mind numbing, spirit crushing content for a over inflated price is almost over.

False on both counts:

1. The “Fight for Racial equality” involved (in case anybody doesn’t already know this) the deliberate and systematic violation of the “property rights” of the owners of segregated lunch counters. See, these people figured it was their “right” to be able to ban those of a particular race from their business. The Bus companies also figured it was their “right” to stipulate what their paying customers (of certain races) could do — where they were “permitted” to sit, etc.

Well, to put it bluntly, the “sacred right of property” didn’t hold water in this case. Those working against racism deliberately and forcefully engaged in “lawbreaking” by refusing to obey “Whites Only” bullshit.

In the same vein, those denigrated as “pirates” are pretty much the only ones standing up against the ever-longer copyright terms bought by lobbying groups. I mean, come on — Life plus 70 years? Fuck that. All-but-perpetual monopolies suck. This isn’t about “content creators”, either — Sony, the “rights-holder” to the tune “happy birthday to you”, had NOTHING TO DO with composing that song, but they feel entitled to extort money every time it’s sung at a child’s birthday party.

If you don’t “get” why this is important, then you deserve to be fleeced by the RIAA and other corporate lobbies. Ultimately, it’s NOT simply about “free stuff” — it’s about using technological means to thwart bad law, and standing the hell up against increasing corporate power to spy on us.

And let’s recall some history here, people: any of you buy “used” records or books or anything like that? The fact that you’re “permitted” to do so rests on some variant of the “first-sale doctrine”. Basically, “rights-holders” at the beginning of the 20th century attempted to impose “licensing restrictions” which were really similar to those found in the ubiquitous EULA agreements of much software (no resale, no resale below a specific price, etc.)

Thankfully, people bitch-slapped that into the ground by refusing en masse to obey it, and eventually (over the strenuous protests of copyright monopolists), people were finally “permitted” to re-sell stuff they’d paid for.

p2p and the “pirate movement” is ultimately about reasserting the “public donain” by technological means. It’s essentially DRM in reverse — “Cultural Rights enforcement”, yo could call it.

Life plus 70 years? Blow me.

The motivations and efforts behind the civil rights movement were entirely different from that of the pirate party.

It IS a civil rights movement, but by no means classic, and by no means anywhere comparable to Rosa Parks.

I am in full support of the PiratPartiet, but not absurd over reaching analogies.

no but seriously for me its all about the future, im going to enjoy culture as long as i can :)
when i cant i might aswell kill myself.

no but seriously.. copyright/record labels and stuff needs major changing for the future.
i could pay a additional fee on my connection or a tax, but how the industry is right now there is NO WAY im paying them a dime so they can pay lobbyist maffia to hurt people, even if its not physical.
i wouldnt trust IFPI/RIAA or any other similar corrupted organisation to handle tax money or try to figgure out who earns the money etc.

I would realy want artists to be employed directly by the government, record labels need to die imo their the true evul of copyright and lobbying.

Artists then get tax from a trusted instance, they get a more secure and stable job and we all get what we want. It will also require more, there might be higher standards and not anyone can be a artist wich is also good.

Basicly kill record labels, kill copyright (for the relevant items/area) create a tax, government employs artists/entertainment creators.
Government now ensures artists pensions, being a artist/entertainment creator is now a mutch more “real” (dont kill me but its true) job with real warranties and ensurances that many dont get.

I know it sounds bad having the government, but i trust any government (*coff* in my country *coff*) over the old maffia record labels for handling anything like this when it comes to tax or additional fees to legalize music and movie copying/sharing/distribution/stealing/whatever..

monopoly! i can hear some scream, well no not realy just the death of the extremely expensive middle hand that artists slave for, they will work for the government instead creating entertainment for the people.
so many middle hands will be cut, so many organisations and corperations can be killed or stopped from leeching, everything would be smoother, leener, cheaper, safer and more secure.

The benefiters are the artists (except insane ones making 10millions/month).
And they are the ones who we should be paying, but are paying the least when we actualy pay for something because of all the middle hands and leeches.

Maybe im crazy.. need more girlz!

Once upon a time, “black men” were slaves. That met in the eyes of the law they were somebodies property!

So, you decide. Is campaigning to change property laws that are wrong a good or a bad thing?

The Pirate Party demands the right to privacy, the right to challenge authority, and the right to share knowledge, culture, and ideas.

Basically, it’s about defining the line between private and public information — and realizing that any attempt to force information across that line, in either direction, requires severely repressive legislation.

You can’t make private information public without either forcing citizens to give it up, or eavesdropping on them without their consent.

You can’t make public information private without preventing people from ever communicating it in private. (This is where file sharing comes in. The question to be asked is; “how repressive means is the government prepared to undertake in order to prevent citizens from communicating already-publicized data in private between them?”)

That’s way more important than racial equality — or any other political concrete issue. This is a meta-issue. If you can’t talk to your friends about how the government is wrong without getting targeted and harassed, you don’t even get to the point where you can start to take action to change things.

First things first.

Go TPB :)

You are right, though, that there are not many key figures yet.

@everyone
Of course, it is still important to get organized. Do not you think that organizations like the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE), the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), and the NAACP were important to the success of the movement? Moreover, organization promotes such key figures, of which there are few at the moment. Do not you think that figures like Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, the Little Rock 6, etc. were important for the success of the movement? Organization is important for the success of this as well – organization of which I see so little of yet.

Roze

Case closed

And a government that did not see the utility in using the magic to create a country where everyone could travel for nearly free, but instead only listened to the wealthy bus companies, and agreed to to give them rights to find and punish, and extort anyone they suspected of using magic, resulting in a fascist society with a government backed corporate mafia, and narrow minded people locked down to their small villages because travel was prohibitively expensive except for people ready to risk huge penalties.

That’s where you get if you want to compare the current file sharing situation with free bus rides.

Of curse, TPB FTW, and screw the MAFIAA.