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	<title>Comments on: Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs</title>
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	<description>Breaking File-sharing, Copyright and Privacy News</description>
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		<title>By: Q</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-363544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Q]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-363544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[will SMARTHIDE or HIDE-IP work on this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>will SMARTHIDE or HIDE-IP work on this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-284487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-284487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All talk is OLD now.
Check out:

http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de for the latest fucking thread to internet users in Germany.

In short words:

Some politician (a true hero in the field) changed rules as he dropped a important privacy law from our constitution so that ISP&#039;s starting from 2009 now need to save data for more than 6 months. This is due to EU debts for the whole econonmy area to come sooner or later.

Further all German mobile phones will get logged in means of the cell-location information.
We know where you are: We are your big brother.

ISP&#039;s need to log the IP for 6 months.
Also some stupid E-Mail logging law was initiated to log E-Mail contacts. How stupid can one politican be? Stupid as all of them!
This doesn&#039;t make sense because they won&#039;t log my E-Mail traffic since it is encrypted with SSL/TLS/GPG.
However, German E-Mail service providers like GMX, web.de, etc. will collect data -- the thing they already do since they run the service with their stupid users.

We are not free anymore.
Countries (especially politicans) fear the thread of their own missing knowledge into technology and the fast change of the world so they want to make sure to gather more information about people.

Osama smilies two times: First his success in NY, after his success of changing the thoughts of our stupid politicians.
Why? Because they tell &quot;we have a terrorism thread&quot;. Oh really? I can fear it in my stupid village of stupid people every day that someone want to drop a bomb on my stupid village.
Know what? Majority of people live in stupid villages and don&#039;t have to fear any thread because they have their own thread in their own village with their own stupid people and this has nothing to do with the islam!

This is a quantum jump back into history!

You know how the Nazis collected all Jews?
Simply with the INFORMATION of their living, housing, ancestors, etc.
The same thing as when a country starts collecting personal data.
Sorry this is a critical comparison, but INFORMATION is a critical issue.

In sum: I don&#039;t trust Germany. Never trust this country, never even if the food tastes good and the facade looks shiny.

I drop all torrent connection from/to the country.

PS

Austria had a similar constitution change as Germany, so take care.

PSS

Actually it seems that the culprits are not the politicians, but some people to own them as a instrument.
Who are these people? Some lobby like a oil company? Some unknown lobby yet?
What does a politician know about Internet after study law for 10 years? NOTHING.
So he has consultants to tell him what is needed and what not.
A lobby again.

A problem to our world. Our freedom.

Fight our your babies will get &quot;chipped&quot; one day.

&quot;You are just a number.&quot;
&quot;Now go to school, work and pay for the system.&quot;
&quot;Your freedom? Sorry, what did you say, we changed some constitution long a go. I don&#039;t know anything anymore, I&#039;m only a part of this system and do my job.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All talk is OLD now.<br />
Check out:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de</a> for the latest fucking thread to internet users in Germany.</p>
<p>In short words:</p>
<p>Some politician (a true hero in the field) changed rules as he dropped a important privacy law from our constitution so that ISP&#8217;s starting from 2009 now need to save data for more than 6 months. This is due to EU debts for the whole econonmy area to come sooner or later.</p>
<p>Further all German mobile phones will get logged in means of the cell-location information.<br />
We know where you are: We are your big brother.</p>
<p>ISP&#8217;s need to log the IP for 6 months.<br />
Also some stupid E-Mail logging law was initiated to log E-Mail contacts. How stupid can one politican be? Stupid as all of them!<br />
This doesn&#8217;t make sense because they won&#8217;t log my E-Mail traffic since it is encrypted with SSL/TLS/GPG.<br />
However, German E-Mail service providers like GMX, web.de, etc. will collect data &#8212; the thing they already do since they run the service with their stupid users.</p>
<p>We are not free anymore.<br />
Countries (especially politicans) fear the thread of their own missing knowledge into technology and the fast change of the world so they want to make sure to gather more information about people.</p>
<p>Osama smilies two times: First his success in NY, after his success of changing the thoughts of our stupid politicians.<br />
Why? Because they tell &#8220;we have a terrorism thread&#8221;. Oh really? I can fear it in my stupid village of stupid people every day that someone want to drop a bomb on my stupid village.<br />
Know what? Majority of people live in stupid villages and don&#8217;t have to fear any thread because they have their own thread in their own village with their own stupid people and this has nothing to do with the islam!</p>
<p>This is a quantum jump back into history!</p>
<p>You know how the Nazis collected all Jews?<br />
Simply with the INFORMATION of their living, housing, ancestors, etc.<br />
The same thing as when a country starts collecting personal data.<br />
Sorry this is a critical comparison, but INFORMATION is a critical issue.</p>
<p>In sum: I don&#8217;t trust Germany. Never trust this country, never even if the food tastes good and the facade looks shiny.</p>
<p>I drop all torrent connection from/to the country.</p>
<p>PS</p>
<p>Austria had a similar constitution change as Germany, so take care.</p>
<p>PSS</p>
<p>Actually it seems that the culprits are not the politicians, but some people to own them as a instrument.<br />
Who are these people? Some lobby like a oil company? Some unknown lobby yet?<br />
What does a politician know about Internet after study law for 10 years? NOTHING.<br />
So he has consultants to tell him what is needed and what not.<br />
A lobby again.</p>
<p>A problem to our world. Our freedom.</p>
<p>Fight our your babies will get &#8220;chipped&#8221; one day.</p>
<p>&#8220;You are just a number.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Now go to school, work and pay for the system.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Your freedom? Sorry, what did you say, we changed some constitution long a go. I don&#8217;t know anything anymore, I&#8217;m only a part of this system and do my job.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: &#124; ispsonline.info</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-177905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#124; ispsonline.info]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-177905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs &#124; TorrentFreakSelect your top features The more you do online, the more your ISP must offer. If you download/upload large files, will your ISP support it? &#8230; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs | TorrentFreakSelect your top features The more you do online, the more your ISP must offer. If you download/upload large files, will your ISP support it? &#8230; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: &#124; ispsonline.info</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-174882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#124; ispsonline.info]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 06:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-174882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs &#124; TorrentFreakThe highest appeal court in Germany has decided that T-Online, one of the largest German ISPs has to delete all IP logs to guarantee the privacy of their &#8230; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs | TorrentFreakThe highest appeal court in Germany has decided that T-Online, one of the largest German ISPs has to delete all IP logs to guarantee the privacy of their &#8230; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Remixtures &#187; Mil alemÃ£es deverÃ£o ser processados por mÃªs pela indÃºstria discogrÃ¡fica no prÃ³ximo ano</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-33265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Remixtures &#187; Mil alemÃ£es deverÃ£o ser processados por mÃªs pela indÃºstria discogrÃ¡fica no prÃ³ximo ano]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 00:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-33265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] No entanto, a tarefa de associar um endereÃ§o IP ao utilizador em causa ficou ainda mais dificultada recentemente, quando um tribunal federal alemÃ£o decidiu que os ISPs nÃ£o podem manter os logs - registos - de IPs sem uma razÃ£o legal para tal, como seja a facturaÃ§Ã£o dos serviÃ§os. Isto significa que os utilizadores com endereÃ§os IP dinÃ¢micos nÃ£o podem ser detectados se o seu endereÃ§o IP tenha entretanto sido alterado. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] No entanto, a tarefa de associar um endereÃ§o IP ao utilizador em causa ficou ainda mais dificultada recentemente, quando um tribunal federal alemÃ£o decidiu que os ISPs nÃ£o podem manter os logs &#8211; registos &#8211; de IPs sem uma razÃ£o legal para tal, como seja a facturaÃ§Ã£o dos serviÃ§os. Isto significa que os utilizadores com endereÃ§os IP dinÃ¢micos nÃ£o podem ser detectados se o seu endereÃ§o IP tenha entretanto sido alterado. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs &#124; GeekLike</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-26167</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs &#124; GeekLike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-26167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Read_More    All, Hot Off The Press, Anti-Piracy Gangs, germany, ip logs, privacy, t online &#124; All, Anti Piracy Gangs, germany, Hot Off The Press, ip logs, privacy, t online [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read_More    All, Hot Off The Press, Anti-Piracy Gangs, germany, ip logs, privacy, t online | All, Anti Piracy Gangs, germany, Hot Off The Press, ip logs, privacy, t online [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TerminalDigit - Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20991</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerminalDigit - Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 02:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] read more&#160;&#124;&#160;digg story [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read more&nbsp;|&nbsp;digg story [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PlayNoEvil Game Security, Game Cheating, Gold Farming and RMT News &#38; Analysis</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PlayNoEvil Game Security, Game Cheating, Gold Farming and RMT News &#38; Analysis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;German ISP forced to delete Customer IP logs...&lt;/strong&gt;

In Germany, Internet users have the right to force ISPs to delete their IP logs. These logs are used by anti-piracy groups and law enforcement.

Basically, the court found that the company had no right to store the logs without legal reason.

The c...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>German ISP forced to delete Customer IP logs&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>In Germany, Internet users have the right to force ISPs to delete their IP logs. These logs are used by anti-piracy groups and law enforcement.</p>
<p>Basically, the court found that the company had no right to store the logs without legal reason.</p>
<p>The c&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ernesto</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ernesto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, kdsde
But I had to link to the Spiegel artile, because there was no other source available
Updated the link.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, kdsde<br />
But I had to link to the Spiegel artile, because there was no other source available<br />
Updated the link.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kdsde</title>
		<link>/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20541</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kdsde]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/privacy-prevails-german-isp-forced-to-delete-ip-logs/#comment-20541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some clarifications if I may;
 
The ruling was made by the Federal Supreme Court ( http://www.dict.cc/?s=BGH )
The court (BHG) has NOT ruled about the legality or iligality of the IP-number logging behaviour!
The BGH has only made an adjudication ( http://www.dict.cc/?s=Gerichtsbeschluss ) that the objection from the ISP against the rulings of the 2 lower courts is non-admissible due to a technical fact that the ruling of the lower courts does not create costs for the ISP from more then 20.000 Euro which would be necessary for the BGH to decide over the matter at issue.

So in the end unfortunately not THE breakthru pro-decision for the freedom and privacy of ordinary citizens and &quot;non-terroristic&quot;-filesharers.

Hope that helps ;-)

P.S.
a PDF-copy of the &quot;Beschluss&quot; in German on Holger&#039;s page:
http://www.kein1984.de/bgh-entscheidung.pdf

oh and Ernesto, better not link to the spiegel regarding &quot;The decision&quot; because those text cost money to read in a few weeks. Better link to the heise article regarding the decision! (the heise headline is stupid!) http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/80614]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some clarifications if I may;</p>
<p>The ruling was made by the Federal Supreme Court ( <a href="http://www.dict.cc/?s=BGH" rel="nofollow">http://www.dict.cc/?s=BGH</a> )<br />
The court (BHG) has NOT ruled about the legality or iligality of the IP-number logging behaviour!<br />
The BGH has only made an adjudication ( <a href="http://www.dict.cc/?s=Gerichtsbeschluss" rel="nofollow">http://www.dict.cc/?s=Gerichtsbeschluss</a> ) that the objection from the ISP against the rulings of the 2 lower courts is non-admissible due to a technical fact that the ruling of the lower courts does not create costs for the ISP from more then 20.000 Euro which would be necessary for the BGH to decide over the matter at issue.</p>
<p>So in the end unfortunately not THE breakthru pro-decision for the freedom and privacy of ordinary citizens and &#8220;non-terroristic&#8221;-filesharers.</p>
<p>Hope that helps ;-)</p>
<p>P.S.<br />
a PDF-copy of the &#8220;Beschluss&#8221; in German on Holger&#8217;s page:<br />
<a href="http://www.kein1984.de/bgh-entscheidung.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.kein1984.de/bgh-entscheidung.pdf</a></p>
<p>oh and Ernesto, better not link to the spiegel regarding &#8220;The decision&#8221; because those text cost money to read in a few weeks. Better link to the heise article regarding the decision! (the heise headline is stupid!) <a href="http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/80614" rel="nofollow">http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/80614</a></p>
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