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RIAA: Online Music Piracy Pales In Comparison to Offline Swapping

A leaked presentation from the RIAA shows that online file-sharing isn’t the biggest source of illegal music acquisition in the U.S. The confidential data reveals that 65% of all music files are “unpaid” but the vast majority of these are obtained through offline swapping. The report further shows that cyberlockers such as Megaupload are only a marginal source of pirated music.

In April, one of the RIAA’s key employees informed a group of music industry insiders about the upcoming six-strikes anti-piracy scheme in the U.S. TorrentFreak received a copy of the presentation sheets which include a rather interesting chart on where people get their music files from.

The data presented by the RIAA comes from NPD’s Digital Music Study but has never been published in public in its current form. While NPD’s press release mentioned a decline in music acquisition through P2P file-sharing and hard drive trading, these numbers were not placed in a larger context.

A strange decision, because the chart below is of critical importance for the debate on music piracy.

As it turns out, two thirds of all music acquired in the U.S. is unpaid. However, offline trading is a much bigger source of unpaid music than online piracy. Of all “unpaid” music less than 30 percent comes from P2P file-sharing or cyberlockers.


Music sources

In total, 15 percent of all acquired music (paid + unpaid) comes from P2P file-sharing and just 4 percent from cyberlockers. Offline swapping in the form of hard drive trading and burning/ripping from others is much more prevalent with 19 and 27 percent respectively.

This leads to the, for us, surprising conclusion that more than 70% of all unpaid music comes from offline swapping.

The chart is marked “confidential” which suggests that the RIAA doesn’t want this data to be out in the open. This is perhaps understandable since the figures don’t really help their crusade against online piracy.

The RIAA is lobbying hard for legislation and voluntary agreements to deal with the online piracy problem, an issue that might seem less severe in the chart above.

While not insignificant, the fact that less than one in five music acquisitions can be traced back to online file-sharing isn’t really that convincing – especially when one takes into account that only a tiny fraction represent a lost sale.

Even if all online music piracy disappeared tomorrow, more than half of all music acquisitions would be unpaid.

But maybe the RIAA will go after these offline swappers next. The TSA could perform piracy scans of travelers’ computer equipment, for example. Or perhaps schools could search MP3 players, phones and computers of their students for unpaid music?

Just a thought.

More revealing findings from the RIAA will be published soon.

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  • Ernie

    Why is there no data about downloads via Usenet?

    • jrau18

      Because that would be like .01%

      • Gear Mentation

        Correct, the most ardent file swappers, I think people under 30, often don’t even know what Usenet is.  Still a secret (;

        • DutchGuest

          All my friends use Usenet, and only 2 of them are over 30.
          I’ve been using it on and off since half way through the 90′s.

        • Gear Mentation

          DutchGuest, perhaps that’s because your friends are Dutch, or because of some other factor?  

        • http://twitter.com/stipaen Stefan

          “Correct, the most ardent file swappers, I think people under *20*, often don’t even know what Usenet is.  Still a secret (;”

          Fixed.

          I still haven’t tried Usenet, and I know no one who uses it (but I don’t really know many people who use P2P that much anyway).

        • uJonesing

           No, they know what Usenet is; they just don’t bother with it because by comparison, it’s inefficient and a waste when you can just grab all the files off of your classmates’ portable HDD.

        • LeakedOnPurpose

           Don’t you have to pay for usenet?

        • SeptagenarianSharer

          “Correct, the most ardent file swappers, I think people under *70*, often don’t even know what Usenet is.  Still a secret (;”Properly Fixed.

        • http://twitter.com/AmandaMBetts Amanda M. Betts

          Also creative accounting  keep them going for now but eventually reality will catch up. Their accounting books are cooked. SkilledExplorer.blogspot.com

        • Vwf

          usenet used to suck in the 90s because of it’s poor retention and corrupted files. i gave it up and was on irc then

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UPJSCBADLH7REEIWT37TGMJ2NA George

          I’ve heard of it.  My grandpa used to use it.  He’s dead now but would be 80ish if he were still around.

      • DutchGuest

         Uhm, bullshit ?
        If you had any idea how many terabytes of music get traded via Usenet each year you’d see why what you said is just nonsense.

        • jrau18

          For an entire year? Terabytes isn’t that much.

        • FakeElections

          All i want to know is what does Usenet have that Bitsnoop for example doesn’t? Tell me why i would want to use usenet because i don’t get whats the big deal about it..jrau18 Terabytes means more than one Terabyte, he may have meant 1000000000000001 Terabytes, thats alot… Nuff said

        • WTF

          @ jrau18 You realize the amount of terabytes he is talking about is of epic proportions. We are talking many petabytes of data each year which is a lot. 1 Petabyte of the avg mp3 size is 306,783,378 downloads. If you take movies it would be 1,048,576 downloads since the avg is around 1gb. Yeah there are a lot of brd rips that are 4-7gb but I’m just saying.

        • jrau18

          @5e026bf3b24a9cf0e45002b96fec35b0:disqus@0183b8c430bbe28905c6d57fff65ecc5:disqus
          He didn’t say petabytes, he said terabytes. That implies less than a petabyte. And since probably several exabytes are transfered in a year over the whole internet, so it’s really not shit.

        • Merl

          Hmmm. I’ve transferred 25 TB of Music in the last year on What.cd and Waffles.fm alone.
          So some 30-35 people like me would transfer the same ammout of music data transfered per whole usenet.
          Like, wow!

    • Guest

      This data are BS! Ok I believe the 16% CD but the 16-19 download?

      Hum! Hum!

      Few % would be more likely while being very optimistic. few tenth of a percent is more likely at this point. Of course the RIAA are trying to show some results  they don’t have in order to justify the million of dollars they spend. All of this crap is for the investors .

      The major are no longer profitable and without the movie division they would be dead by now. Also creative accounting  keep them going for now but eventually reality will catch up. Their accounting books are cooked.

      DO NOT  INVEST IN THE 7 MAJORS ENTERTAINMENT COMPANIES!!!

      Unless you are ready to lose money of course.
       

    • selfishRichPeople

      Also…..What about Bluetooth ?

      Anyone who has kids, knows, they get GB’s of music from friends every year.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Yes. Although I’ve never used Frostwire for that purpose, a classroom full of schoolkids with smartphones…

    • digler99

      because the first rule about usenet is that you don’t talk about usenet. even RIAA obeys this rule.

      • Uke

        Yeah we had a truce with the riaa.

    • M745

      Nobody ,nobody can stop billions people to do what they like to do, like piracy, like using drugs and shout guns  ,  smoking and alcohol abuse etc  These will exist as long humans exist , people use all of them to foget about real shitty life , to foget about fucking system, to get a fraction of happynes , to foget about pain about all problems , So to fight against millions , billions people and belive at the end these problems will be fixed is loosing time , money  and after all is utopic and very stupid thing ! Nobody can change the world ,except people – millions billions common people
      Really i asking myself  what all of these organizations , labels want to get at the end ? It is so clear for everyone that actions is useless , even for the last stupid people from the world . So why they continue ? Maybe behind these actions is other thing very dark , maybe change legislations to trace everyone everywhere enywhere ,to see and control everything – but even this thing is utopic and stupid , becouse all will depend of how will react millions people at least – what will happen if all of people will say NO , then with will be a war , and people will win becouse all systems based on people , money mean nothing without people , nothing and nobody can do something even have money without people , and guess what people ove freedom more then money , money cant buy freedom

      • TerribleTony

         I want a shout gun…

      • Terry

        Yes, never mix drugs and bullhorns.

      • Guest

        “- what will happen if all of people will say NO , then with will be a
        war , and people will win becouse all systems based on people , money
        mean nothing without people , nothing and nobody can do something even
        have money without people , and guess what people ove freedom more then
        money , money cant buy freedom”

        unlikely for war … even with civil war inside country for suck think.. most ppl just dont care..

      • Shout Gun

        Latest version of the “Shout Gun.”  :-)

      • Abc

        “what all of these organizations , labels want to get at the end ? 
         why they continue ?  ”
        You realize that organizations will always do fine. It’s the small producers and artists who really suffer from piracy. And don’t tell me it’s free advertising when the product is free.

  • UnderpantsBummer

    I spy a new push for DRM on paid-for downloads.

    • Montisaquadeis

      ITunes is already DRM infested and yet there are ways of ripping that DRM out of the files. so if they relied more on drm more programs would show up to get rid of that drm so it doesnt always solve any issues it just creates more issues for those that are not “Pirating” music.

      Similar to the way drm in games is causing headaches for those consumers that bought the game. People can easily crack the games so that they arent bothered by the limitations of the drm tho.

      • http://twitter.com/stipaen Stefan

        DRM in games (especially famous ones) is often useless. Limiting online gaming features from pirated versions is okay, since I think if you appreciate a game that much you should just buy it, and that single-player mode alone is enough, but sometimes the impracticality of it all really gets to you, the legal owner of an original copy.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Usually the DRM of whatever flavor is cracked quickly. The main problem is the DRM intrusiveness. Every legal game I’ve bought I also have a tendency to get a cracked copy of. Because quite frankly, spending three days removing the last shred of the DRM malware wreaking havoc on your computer’s setup is something you want to do only once in your lifetime.

      • UnderpantsBummer

        Most of iTunes is DRM free now and has been for a while.

        DRM doesn’t work – we all know that. BUT it does reduce casual sharing – which is what this presentation is taking aim at.

        • WunderpantsHummer

          All of iTunes is DRM free, has been since 2009.

        • Ignotus

           Not all of iTunes is DRM free… I just helped someone sign up for the store yesterday and in the email it says that there are DRM songs and there are iTunes plus songs or some shit that are encoded at a higher bitrate and without DRM. You also have the option to “authorize” a computer in iTunes to play your purchased music, but you can only authorize 5 computers or something. I don’t know the details because I don’t use iTunes personally due to the DRM crippling, but I know what I saw in the email they sent us.

        • UnderpantsBummer

           iTunes is pretty good actually – the DRM is limited purely to stuff like books etc. And legit audiobooks are pretty much all DRM – at least iTunes makes it painless (compared to the bad old days).

          And it’s 5 computers at a time, you can de-authorise and re-authorise as necessary, and if you really need instant access on more than 5 computers… shit – it’s 2012 and we have the internet. We have the technology, it’s a piece of piss.

          For music, I’ve never felt crippled. I’ve started buying indie/self released stuff through Itunes and I haven’t encounter any DRM at all.

    • LeakedOnPurpose

      I think they want a little chip in every Hard Drive and USB Flash Drive which stores the Hashes for suspected “infringing files” and decides weather to copy or not… Or something similar.

  • foff

    Fuck the living hell out of you RIAA.  Since when does swapping music constitute piracy.  You damn assholes I have been swapping music with friends for year even before the internet and you have the gall to say it is piracy.  Incidental sharing is not piracy at so fuck off and quit thinking you deserve to get paid for every instance of music sharing you are fucking insane.

    • blah

      It’s the swapping of music that generates interest in their products in the first place. They’re going well out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot with their customers..

    • me

      “Since when does swapping music constitute piracy.”

      Sharing and file swapping ISN’T piracy. Never has been. Never will be. BUT technically, it was always illegal since the day they invented Copyright and made it a law. A bad law, but a law nonetheless. Even long before the Internet and BBS times (i.e. offline swapping) was it illegal. The technical term for that activity is “non-for-profit copyright infringement.”

      And yes, nobody cared back then, just as nobody cares today. If there’s one law that lacks legitimacy, its this widely ignored piece of corporatocratic legislation. And rightly and deservedly so.

      • You

        “BUT technically, it was always illegal since the day they invented Copyright and made it a law.”

        If you’re speaking ‘technically’ it was only ever unlawful. To be illegal it would have to have fallen under criminal statutes, but copyright is covered by civil law.

  • Heyberg

    “The chart is marked “confidential” which suggests that the RIAA doesn’t
    want this data to be out in the open. This is perhaps understandable
    since the figures don’t really help their crusade against online piracy.”

    More likely they don’t want to be corrected on their inaccurate use of the term “illegal.”

    They also don’t want to public to think that behind closed doors, they consider piracy to be no worse in any way than making someone a mix CD. That perception could really open the floodgates.

  • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

    This is misleading.

    The files swapped using hard drive trading or burning/ripping from others may also come from P2P originally.

    Also, piracy is illegal independently of the used technique.

    • Filesharing

      lighten up dude, truth is most people don’t care about opinions like yours; or they write a quick rant while downloading a couple of albums (a discography maybe?) films and what not…you know what should’ve been illegal back in the days?
      Selling CDs for 30 bucks even tho it basically didn’t cost much compared to what they were charging…they continued to do so because why make a product cheaper if you have a monopoly? Certainly not out of sympathy for your customers – well, payback’s a b!tch, ain’t it ;)

      • selfishRichPeople

        They got away with it for too long. Now they really are pushing their luck. The genie is out of the bottle, people know that a copy is worthless. Won’t stop them trying to “reeducate” remove what we all have learned. Facts are their worst enemy, they want us to be stupid and view a version of reality they made up.

        @nejtillpirater:disqus  is just some fringe blogger with *that warped view of reality.

        • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

          Yes, facts are the pirates worst enemy. And pirates have really got away with it for too long.

        • Guest

          @Nejtilltroller:twitter 

          Facts are your worst enemy, actually.

          Liars do hate them.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          @nejtillpirater:disqus 

          Pardon me for the correction but for the last three years we do have rather extensive records of you demonstrating a complete inability to be factual in just about any commentary. Whether it concerns law, IT, social politics or normal common sense.

          But that’s just about what I should expect from someone who claims multiple years of experience with IT and law while being unable to discuss either on the level of the average thirteen-year old… 

    • http://twitter.com/stipaen Stefan

      The files from offline trading may also originate from people ripping original CD’s. The important thing is how MOST PEOPLE get their files. 

      Is it from these sites or from an offline source?

      And if it is true that most people trade the files through hard drives or ripping the CD, it’s either most people are a) audiophiles (unlikely), or b) too technologically-illiterate to use uTorrent, or c) afraid of being sued when using P2P

      • bromi

         You are really underestimate the effect of ‘wow what’s this song? lemme copy it on mah phone!’. Audiophiles on contrary go on torrents look for beloved artists and all that 5% lifestyle crap ;)

        • Mr. M

          I believe he meant that many albums that are available for download in a lossy format aren’t available in a lossless format. In that case the only way to obtain the album in a lossless format is to rip an original music CD.

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        I actually have no problem seeing the offline trading explode. Anyone with a smartphone capable of bluetooth can easily use an app such as frostwire to share the contents of the SD by way of ad-hoc bluetooth networks.

        It’s as simple as activating bluetooth and designating an open folder, after all. And I think most people using smartphones are savvy enough to download and install an app which is all it takes.

    • Mr. M

       Depends if you mean distribution or obtaining copies for personal use. Also depends on the jurisdiction.

      In quite many countries, obtaining pirate copies of data is completely legal. Where I live, computer programs are the only exception to that.

    • Guest

      Or the files on the hard drive could have come mp3s that the person actually owns and then swaps with their friends.

    • DutchGuest

       ’Piracy’ isn’t illegal everywhere either.
      Take Belgium and the Netherlands as an example; obtaining a copy of a copyrighted work from an ‘illegal source’ is permitted, if for personal use.

      • me

        Sorry to bust your bubble dude, but considering the intense lobbying efforts of BREIN and their ilk, expect this to become illegal too in the not so far future. And if NL and B won’t illegalize it, the EU commission certainly will do its utmost to make those countries bow to the almighty Copyright Talibans. Which sucks.

      • Abc

        Piracy doesn’t mean downloading videos or mp3 files. Recently it means mass uploading and usually getting well paid for it.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Fair use explicitly allows sharing of unlimited numbers of copies with friends, family and casual aquaintances in many countries. Including Sweden.

      Are you just incompetent regarding the copyright laws in your own country or are you, once again, choosing to redefine what the law explicitly states?

      And if we have to nitpick (and in your case i think we should) – “piracy” is not “illegal” in any nation. It is “unlawful”. Civil versus Criminal statutes. The difference is rather large.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “Fair use explicitly allows sharing of unlimited numbers of copies with friends, family and casual aquaintances in many countries. Including Sweden.”

        Not according to Swedish law, a fact that you’re obviously completely ignorant of. The Swedish “privatkopiering” does only allow sharing to a limited number of friends, family etc. If you have a “unlimited” number of originals, then of course you can share those legally to a limited number of friends, family etc. 

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery


          Not according to Swedish law, a fact that you’re obviously completely ignorant of.”

          Said law has been tested a few times. As it turns out by the criteria of the law I can actually give a copy away of a thousand works to anyone of my colleagues at work, anyone in my family, anyone aquaintanced with me or my family, and people I chat with in a pub.

          That number easily reaches tens of thousands of individuals. All legal.

          So for all intents and purposes “fair use” does mean “unlimited”. Or at least in practice means that you can give away as many copies as you can possibly find the time to distribute. By the same token I could skype-send a copy of every CD i own to anyone I’ve personally friended on FB. The legal argument on “fair use” is quite clear about how and when fair use may be applied

          What your argument demonstrates is only that you have no concept of what “fair use” actually means and the legal ramifications thereof.

    • Nullify

      Piracy isn’t illegal. Never was. You misunderstand the law, and the subsection of said law the term falls under.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        Silly distinction.

        One of the people behind The Pirate Bay, Carl Lundström, has already served his sentence of 4 months in jail for breaking the Swedisih law. You may call it whatever you want but you may still end up in jail.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Ah, I see. And given the topic now you claim that people making use of “fair use” will be sent to prison since this is comparable to the TPB trial.

          What will you do for an encore? Prove that apples are a subspecies of fish? Because it has about as much relevance as what you’re saying so far

    • masonic

      I have used Netflix, Blockbuster and any other DVD/CD rental places, including the public Library. I would burn them onto my harddrive and then rip copies onto blank discs. Netflix was the best, i could burn and rip around 80 to 90 movies a month give or take with the 8 DVDs at a time package, get them the next day, rip and burn the day they arrive, send back same day repeat etc..

      DVD shrink, DVDfab and the countless other programs out there that help the rip and burn process.
      So even if P2p sites all died overnight, i can fall back onto good ole ripping and burning from rentals.

  • Jo

    It’s more about controlling and spying than file sharing, I think it always has been…

  • Gear Mentation

    I love TorrentFreak :D  And what can I say… spread the word?

  • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

    well his simply backs up my comment in my write up  http://www.scribd.com/doc/76156718/Piracy-Guide-to-How-It-Can-Work-for-All stating that people share content offline and not a single case against them. but involve the internet and all hell breaks lose.

    But with the question being brought up, asking if the riaa will get piracy scans happening, well i ask. How can they prove whats paid and what hasnt been, and even stuff thats not been paid for by that person, that item smay have been paid by somebody else. so theres no way online and off to state whats piracy and what isnt, just sadly the courts for online cases have ways around it

  • djnforce9

    It’s hard to check out a CD from a library and then convert it to mp3. I doubt they would get away with so called checks. How could they tell the person who dumped their own CD from the other who borrowed it from their friend or local library? It would be extremely cumbersome getting people to prove they own ALL the music on their computer not to mention more invasive than anything done line. 

    Yeah, how about fixing the broken business model for a change!

  • Anyone

    of course piracy is just an excuse
    they want to control the internet so new artists can’t become famous without the middlemen

    nice to see it in such a clear statistic

    • Bobt

      new artists suffer more from piracy than big names. A friend of mine made a film. It cost him about 7000 usd. He sold DVDs worth about 1000usd. The film  was downloaded 28000 times from links on 
      just one forum. The result: he gave up doing films. I think big companies are actually pro piracy because it sweeps away small firms.

  • Wallace

    “Also, piracy is illegal independently of the used technique.”

    Piracy is illegal mass distribution for commercial gain … it has nothing to do with obtaining or listening to something.

    All these sources are “illegal”, I’m guessing, in that they violate some restriction on “unauthorized copying.” I doubt this interpretation would stand in court on its own or that Congress would tolerate it if it did.

    • http://twitter.com/stipaen Stefan

      Making a profit out of piracy is illegal.

      Just doing piracy (without profit / at a loss) on the other hand is a bigger debate.

      • Ogra

         ” Making a profit out of piracy is illegal.

        Just doing piracy (without profit / at a loss) on the other hand is a bigger debate.”I don’t understand your comment. There isn’t any question about whether piracy done for personal use is illegal is not; the laws in each country state this quite clearly. In many countries, it’s just as illegal as piracy with profit.Or perhaps you’re saying that whether or not each one should be illegal is more debated for non-commercial piracy than for commercial piracy. This would be disappointingly true. There are many people who do not recognize that the importance of property rights should mean that anyone who owns a copy of a cultural good should be able to do whatever they wish with that copy, including selling it. If the government is going to tell people what they can and can’t do with their property, the justification must be direct prevention of harm (like making murder illegal), not because of moral squeamishness. To violate rights in this manner is destructive at best, and tyrannical/fascist at worst.

        • Wallace

          I agree with most of your post. But to be clear, there is no such thing as “piracy for personal use.”

          There are various regulations in various countries against making copies for personal use, so your point basically stands, but copies for personal use are “illegal copies” (to the extent they’re illegal), not “piracy.”

          “Pirate radio” is operating an illegal radio station – sending out the signal. Someone who merely downloads/listens to pirate radio is not breaking any laws.

        • Ogra

           @962e81c198a652f9a36b85dd2dfc9ae5:disqus

          Well, let’s be clear. The definition of piracy that I’m using is the creation of copies of a cultural good or the commercial/widespread use of that cultural good (like playing it on TV) without the permission of the original creator or anyone they’ve transferred legal rights to, as fits with the common conception of copyright law. Piracy for personal use is the downloading or creation of copies of a cultural good for the use only of the individual doing the copying, without any intention to profit from or share/sell any copies. Knowing that, I continue to assert that making copies for personal use does constitute piracy because it is without the consent of the original author, even if the production and use of those copies is not illegal in certain countries.

          As for pirate radio, I didn’t say anything about that. I don’t know enough about it to classify whether or not it actually piracy.

        • Wallace

          “Piracy for personal use is the downloading or creation of copies of a
          cultural good for the use only of the individual doing the copying,
          without any intention to profit from or share/sell any copies.”

          First of all, this is not only not piracy, it’s not illegal. In fact, it’s how your browser, TV and radio work.

          Second – the theory of calling P2P etc. “piracy” (and every law that has followed) is that a sharer competes with the authorized distributor in the same way a counterfeiter does. You “loot” potential sales. Not saying it’s worng, I’m just repeating the theory. Making a copy for personal use involves no distribution, so it’s not piracy.

          Here’s a few other somewhat similar examples – mass production of homemade imitation “Rolex” watches or imitation Sudafed is producing a counterfeit good. Making one “Rolex” or batch of homemade Sudafed for yourself is not.

          Mass-producing copies of a short story is different from emailing that short story to your brother.

          The paper publishing industry restricts how Kinko’s can make money copying copyrighted works. But you can photocopy works for yourself without restriction.

          See the difference?

        • Ogra

           ”First of all, this is not only not piracy, it’s not illegal. In fact, it’s how your browser, TV and radio work.”

          I’m well aware of this. That’s why I included the “without the permission of the original creator or anyone they’ve transferred to” in an earlier part of my post. If my meaning there was confusing, I apologize. To reiterate, any time a copy is made without the permission of the author, that constitutes piracy. Personal use piracy is when people produce copies for themselves with no intention of further sharing or selling of copies. I’m using the laws of the Netherlands as an example of a government that defines personal use piracy in this way.

          “the theory of calling P2P etc. “piracy” (and every law that has
          followed) is that a sharer competes with the authorized distributor in
          the same way a counterfeiter does. You “loot” potential sales. Not
          saying it’s worng, I’m just repeating the theory. Making a copy for
          personal use involves no distribution, so it’s not piracy.”

          There is a problem with what you’ve said here. You acknowledge that one of the primary reasons for calling unauthorized production of copies is that it eliminates sales from the authorized distributor, but you then don’t acknowledge that the individual who does the downloading of the data needed to produce the copy has been part of a distribution network. The data that they used to create their copy came from a distribution network, be that a . The destribution may not have been done by the individual producing the copy, but it was a necessity for the individual to have made his copy. There was unauthorized distribution at some point in the process, it’s piracy.

          Here’s a few other somewhat similar examples – mass production of
          homemade imitation “Rolex” watches or imitation Sudafed is producing a
          counterfeit good.”

          Counterfeiting and piracy are not the same thing. Counterfeiting means to “Imitate fraudulently”. Piracy does not imitate. It copies. You can’t use an example of when something isn’t counterfeiting to say that something isn’t piracy. It’s apples and oranges.

          “The paper publishing industry restricts how Kinko’s can make money
          copying copyrighted works. But you can photocopy works for yourself
          without restriction.”

          You can photocopy for yourself, but when doing so, you are not recieving any data from an online distribution network. Your analogy suggests that if I made a copy of a CD I already possessed, it wouldn’t be piracy, which is true. It says nothing about when the data is not originally possessed and is acquired through a distribution network. That is piracy.

          I believe I have made my point well. Due to time demands in my personal life, I will be unable to continue this discussion any further due to demands in my personal life. If you wish to save your time by not responding to this because I can’t respond back, that would be understandable. This was enjoyable. Have a good day.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Ogra, you ARE aware that many nations have fair use laws which expressly allow any person to make copies of a work to anyone within even their casual aquaintance group? “Consent of the creator/rightsholder” be hanged?

          Hence your definition only holds true within a nation where no concept of “fair use” does exist or such fair use is stringently curtailed.

        • Abc

          “anyone who owns a copy of a cultural good should be able to do whatever they wish with that copy, including selling it”You can sell  product you bought but you can’t copy it million times and sell it. 
          Unless you think it should be like this: artists create music, you buy a copy, sell it 1 million times and that’s fair use.  

      • Suricou Raven

         In the US, the NET act defined profit to include an expectation of more infringing works in turn. Which includes p2p networks, even if they weren’t the intended target at the time.

  • Fantastic

     Ah so it comes back to “Tape Trading” again. I was wondering when they would come back to hammer that old classic.

    • blah

      Swapping wax cylinders is killing the recording industry.

      • Blahblah

        The recording industry is killing live music!

        • Argle Bargle

           Live music is killing my ears!

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      Actually, they’ve always been working hard on this – any time a new piece of hardware or technology allows copying a file, lo and behold, pro-copyright lobbyists come swarming out from underneath a rock, claiming the new technology must be regulated and “active measures” to prevent copying must be implemented.

  • XFyrios


    The TSA could perform piracy scans of travelers’ computer equipment, for example…”

    Watch out! You might give these unoriginal bastards some bright ideas! ;)

    • Polinator

      This already exists – my cousin had her laptop checked on her last entry into the United States through LAX but not everyone gets it, you’re picked at random.

      • Taishou

         I always found that idea interesting…

        What if I enter a country (let’s say your beloved USA) with a 4TB HDD, everything encrypted, the whole partition with whatever fancy encryption you have in TrueCrypt or similar. Before leaving my country I do that encryption to my HDD, give the key to an X person (it could be even someone I only know online from other country) and tell him/her to delete the key if I don’t answer within the estimated time I should be in USA. If everything goes fine, I would retrieve that key once I’m safely inside the country and no one can bother me.

        How can you beat that? Even if they examine my HDD they won’t be able to decrypt it and even if they torture me to get the key I don’t have access to it. If I’m delayed because of my HDD the key would get deleted and the data unrecoverable forever (of course, I’d keep a 1:1 copy of it in my home country).

        Or something, the idea is that you DON’T have the key and they key must be deleted if something goes wrong (like if you’re locked away for life)

        Lol, can you be forced to give encryption keys for your HDDs in the first place? :P

        • Anyone

          in some countries you can be forced, namely North Korea, Iran and UK
          everywhere else you are not obliged to give out the key

        • Taishou

           @f05af58b8c10e93b3595bb996aad4e5d:disqus (the reply button doesn’t appear on your post)

          UK? Really? Pffft…. And if I don’t have the key? What happens?

  • BobButtons

    This short article from the Onion is closer to becoming reality:

    RIAA Bans Telling Friends About Songs
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/riaa-bans-telling-friends-about-songs,5092/

    • Guest

      Well the article was posted nearly 7 years and I guess in time it could come true.

    • Jesus

      The way they’re going, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. I can’t wait until Megabox hits the net and kills these greedy bastards.

  • BobButtons

    For those too lazy to go to the site:
    The OnionRIAA Bans Telling Friends About Songs:”The Recording Industry Association of America announced Tuesday that it will be taking legal action against anyone discovered telling friends, acquaintances, or associates about new songs, artists, or albums. “We are merely exercising our right to defend our intellectual properties from unauthorized peer-to-peer notification of the existence of copyrighted material,” a press release signed by RIAA anti-piracy director Brad Buckles read. “We will aggressively prosecute those individuals who attempt to pirate our property by generating ‘buzz’ about any proprietary music, movies, or software, or enjoy same in the company of anyone other than themselves.” RIAA attorneys said they were also looking into the legality of word-of-mouth “favorites-sharing” sites, such as coffee shops, universities, and living rooms. ”

    • http://twitter.com/stipaen Stefan

      I think if they were too lazy to go to the site, they were too lazy to read it in the first place…

      Also no paragraphs, what a nightmare to read.

  • Obvious

    To play the devils advocate here. When we say * F the RIAA, it makes little sense. The recording industry is a giant entity which is made up of different parts. What we should really be saying is F the litigious aspect of the Industry. They produce a lot of quality music…and yes, even more garbage. But some good stuff does get produced. And the artists aren’t innocent either. No one is forcing them to sign a contract which basically rams a large tree trunk in their rear oven. If more artists stood up for what is right and demanded that those representing them honored a certain way of doing business, we wouldn’t be in this mess. I think the best way to antagonize their feeble attempts at curbing *piracy* is to boycott the artists. Don’t attend their concerts, don’t buy their coffee mugs.. etc etc. Hit them where it hurts, their pockets. Maybe then they will listen….yeah ok..and pigs can fly. Only if.

    • Guest

      “They produce a lot of quality music”

      Artists produce music, the RIAA produces nothing.

      Also, they are the litigious aspect of the industry. So yes, fuck them.

      • Guest

        I can see Obvious’ point. The artists do choose to join these organizations. They aren’t forced to. They see some benefit in what these organizations do for them. Investment, marketing, etc… It’s not as if they are blameless.

        That said, I see a better solution to this problem than what Obvious suggests. Consider this; the artists join the RIAA/MPAA affiliated organizations and labels because they see benefit to the services they offer. Therefore, the best way to cut the power of these organizations is to develop alternatives for the artists. We need to recogonize that the artists are the customers for these organizations, and we can steal them away if we offer a better service. This has been done to some degree with music, but it could be done better, and the support is virtually non-existent for movies and games.

        We should develop better business alternatives that appeal to the artists, not just to the end-users. I think that will lead to quicker progress than simply leading a boycott which could serve to alienate artists who could potentially see our side.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          You do realize that you just nailed the biggest reason why the MPAA/RIAA and Ifpi are going after the internet in such a heavyhanded manner?

          Filesharing can not hurt the labels. Any viable alternative to the current slave contracts pushed by the labels however, can put them in the grave. Do you think it’s a coincidence that megaupload got hit as soon as it announced Megabox? Or that the labels are doing their very best to ensure artists are driven away from Spotify?

    • Suricou Raven

       It’s next to impossible to become a big success without signing with a major label. The label provides the business sense and contacts – without them, there isn’t any access to distribution channels. Just imaging getting your garage band together, going to the headquarters of Walmart and asking if they can start stocking your CDs – it doesn’t matter how good you are, it isn’t going to happen. The label also provides the advertising to get people aware of the song – the posters, the radio play, the callouts by their other signed artists. Without which a song is doomed to obscurity. The internet has helped a little with this, but only enough to take success from ‘impossible’ to ‘next to impossible.’

      • Anonymous

        It’s more than possible. Insane Clown Posse’s last album charted at #4 on the Billboard 200 despite being released independently, and they have a fanbase of over 1 million members despite being hit with a smear campaign and practically kicked out of the mainstream music industry in the early 2000′s for pissing off the industry’s giants.

        As much as everyone seems to hate that band, they’re three steps ahead of the music industry at all times. They’re already preparing for a transition from physical CDs to digital distribution, and they openly encourage people to pirate their music if they can’t afford it. They know what they’re doing, and that’s why they’re at the top of the indie music scene. A lot of artists could learn from ICP’s example.

        • Lolken

           Possible and practical are two different things. No one’s debating that it can work. The question is what the artists think will give them the best chance of success.

      • Guest

        “without them, there isn’t any access to distribution channels.”

        Wait, what? The internet is the greatest distribution channel in the world, and you can distribute your work across it at zero cost to yourself. You don’t need expensive advertisements, posters, radio plays, or call outs to promote your shit and get it out there. You just need a computer, an internet connection, and some dedication.  

        One of the biggest reasons why the labels hate the internet is because it obsoletes them. They see a future without themselves in it and rightly so. 

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Rebecca Black posted one video on youtube, costing 2000$ to make.

        That same video then sold hundreds of thousands of copies on iTunes, with no marketing required at all.

        What planet are you living on?

      • Mumford and Daughters

        “It’s next to impossible to become a big success without signing with a major label”

        Disagree 100%. These days, most young artists take the Odd Future/Skrillex route – they become big successes on the Internet, then sign with a major label. The elimination of CDs eliminates the need for a distribution channel.

        For old bands, direct distribution via websites is the easiest way for a dedicated fanbase to keep in touch with them. If I want to look into a new Rush or Asia record, the first place I’ll go is rush.com or asia.com. Then I can see if they’re touring, what all the art looks like, etc. That’s easy enough even for your dad.

        Also, Drake has proven that you can give an album away and use that buzz to sell mp3s too, to the second-tier consumers who don’t want the hassle of looking for a free channel and want to just drop $1.29 and go.

        On the other hand, labels could start selling their back catalogs as $1.99 digital albums and jump right back in there.

  • Mr. M

     I refuse to believe this is accurate. It’s probably just a trick to convince politicians to allow raids with zero evidence, since otherwise “there is no way to know if a person has obtained illegal copies of music”.

  • Guest

     RIAA: It appears we have met the enemy, and he is SNEAKERNET!

  • Guest

    The RIAA forgot to mention that listening to a song on a radio that you don’t actually own the CD to is piracy because you are listening to something that you don’t own. Well that will probably be the next thing that they will come out and they will of course be completely wrong. 

    • DannyUfonek

      It isn’t piracy, because the radio has already paid the rightsholders a large amount of money to pay for the radio’s listeners.

      • Guest

         That isn’t enough for these greedy bastards, they’re chasing people for public performance all cos they use the radio where others can hear it? wow.

        • Anonymous

          How long before they start going after those teenagers drivers with the huge subwoofers in the boot/trunk of their cars?

        • Get a life, RIAA!!!

          Hey RIAA, I have neighbors who play music inside their homes with the window open, and I can just walk down the street and hear copyrighted music that I didn’t even pay for!!!  Shouldn’t you be walking down the streets of every neighborhood in the world to bust music-playing neighbors for “public performance” and bust everyone who walks down the street for listening to music they didn’t pay for?!?

      • Wallace

         ”It isn’t piracy, because the radio has already paid the rightsholders a large amount of money to pay for the radio’s listeners.”

        Haha … ironically, the RIAA actually does consider radio to be piracy. It’s just protected by a 1940s Supreme Court decision against them.

        IMO, that’s why you will never see a court case against many of these so-called “illegal” sources of unpaid music — the RIAA would lose. Using/tolerating leaks like these to market the message that “all of these are also illegal” is a safer bet.

        • Argle Bargle

          Not to mention they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I would venture a guess that historically a massive percentage of sales has come from people hearing songs on the radio and then purchasing the music. I believe that radio is as valuable to the recording industry as music is to radio.

  • Homer

    CD’s! Are they still around? Joking right?

    And they’re using expired business models.

    • What

      CD’s, that’s what my grandmother used, and when my dad was young he carried a CD player in his pocket!!! So funny.

      • Whatwhat

        They can only fit ten songs on them.

        • Mwhahaha

          I feel old.

        • Guest

           I believe that was minidisc, CDs actually stored around twenty, unless they were all 6 minute long mixes of course.

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    one “leaked” report after another. suspicious 

    • Guest

      I wonder if someone or some people are leaking reports deliberately on purpose to inform people or just to show off to people of what is going to be done or if this is just an incompetent mistake,

    • LeakedOnPurpose

      I was waiting for someone to say this. Since every study and report is basically used to support the MAFFIAS cause, why should this one be any different…

    • LKLKLK

       Not really, I read on the BBC’s own website (I think) “as reported by TorrentFreak” so itf you’re going to leak a report about filesharing it makes sense to leak it to a reputable site dedicated to bringing news about such matters.

  • Guest

    And the US government illegally sent in the Feds to New Zealand to do an illegal search and illegal raid on Megaupload and shut down the servers etc and had Megauploads assets frozen etc. all because they believe that Megaupload encouraged piracy. Well according to this chart only 3 to 4% acquired music from digital lockers. So by shutting down Megaupload hasn’t caused any damage or stopped piracy whatsoever if the digital lockers only account for 3 to 4% of piracy. What a complete joke the RIAA et al. are for getting Megaupload shut down.

  • Anonymous

    ‘but we must still stamp it out! we have made such twats of ourselves by convincing all governments how much on-line downloading is costing us and how much more strict laws are required, we cant admit now that physical disk swapping is the worse thing! how can we explain to courts that the millions we keep claiming in lost profits are lies? how can we explain that the peoples lives we have ruined didn’t deserve it and we were to blame? how can we explain that we have wasted countless hours of court time, spent a fortune on lawyers and embezzled money from artists just to try to keep control of a decades old business model? how can we face the world now?? how can we explain the number of web sites we have forced to close because the feds were ordered to help us, courtesy of very senior US politicians??’

    i hope a real serious shit storm is coming!! and of course, this information wont help Kim at all, will it?

    • Guest

      I hope you were being sarcastic.

      It could well help Kim here as according to this report 4% of music piracy was acquired from Digital Lockers. So by taking out Kim hasn’t made a dent at all or stopped piracy. If by using the feds to take out Kim has only managed to stop say 2% or 4% of music piracy then I guess they would have to send in the whole of the US army to the homes/businesses to stop more than 4% lol

      • Anonymous

         of course it was a sarcastic comment! what a dumb statement!

      • Suricou Raven

         And MU was only one of many lockers too. So a small percent of a small percent.

        • DocGerbil100

          Smaller even than that, I think – TF published this thing yesterday, presumably from the same report.

          Looking closely at the charts, MegaUpload is depicted as having around 5% of the infringing links in yesterday’s chart, which itself only covers the top ten infringing cyberlockers, which has a combined 75% share of all alleged cyberlocker infringement, which – according to todays chart – only covers 4% of all piracy.

          That’s 5% of 75% of 4%.

          I’m not very good with numbers, but when I chuck those figures into Libre Office Calc, I only seem to get 0.0015% of piracy overall.

          Maybe I’m doing it wrong. :)

        • Techanon

          @dg_100:disqus You’re not doing it wrong. They are talking about really huge numbers.
          Just to ilustrate:
          Megaupload had 150 millions of users.
          Asuming (using MAFIAA mentality) one infringing file per user we get 150 million infringing files, that would be the 0,15% in the chart.
          Using the above example the 100% would be about 100 billions of unpaid files.

          That would average 14 files per person for every person in the world…
          And I just pulled out of my ass the most optimistic figure.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    Searching school kids MP3 players is not only an invasion of privacy but also not the schools function to police.

    Also how would they tell the difference between paid downloads and infringing files.  This is complicated by the fact that in many territories, format shifting ie ripping from CD to MP3 for personal use is perfectly legal.  The only way to prove would be to audit the mp3 player against the person’s CD collection.  The RIAA would love every kid with a MP3 player small enough to fit in their top pocket to have to carry a sports bag full of CDs (or sleeves) to plove ownership.

    The other point is that ownership of infringing material is not in itself a crime, certainly not in the UK unlawfull. You ownly become liable to litigation either civil or criminal if you distribute it.  If that wasnt the case the police would be arresting everyone on the street wearing a fake rolex watch.

    Ive said this before in previous posts but I remember when Napster hit the headlines there was only 1.5TB of data being shared and that maxed at around 3-4TB thanks to added publicity thanks to the RIAA whinging to the press and those where random files with many duplicates .  Now you can buy 2TB USB HDs for £80 and 3TB for £120-130.  With even 500gb 2.5in drives being swapped on a round robin in schools and work places you will soon find it difficult not to get the entire industry back catalogue..

    P2P is merely a matter of convenience rather than an essential part of the filesharing landscape.  Ironically the only area where it is useful/essential is to obtain material available in your own country in a similar vein to tv and films which is  really the fault of market failure and no loss to the industry as it was markets they hadnt tried to monetise.

    Upshot is the only sectors where p2p is an essential component is material not otherwise available and oh yes, Porn.

    • Mwhahaha

      We don’t need torrents for porn, it’s regularly available free online without resorting to the hit n miss method of torrenting. :) 
      Otherwise I agree totally.

      It would be interesting if we could see how many people had never lent for copy or copied or were given a copy or taped off the radio or VHS’d from the TV or torrented any media.

      It would be about 5 people. Global.

    • Lolken

      Why is P2P essential to porn? I’ve never used P2P to get anything related to porn, despite watching multiple times per day. Streaming off of the free sites is easier.

      • UsedToBe9Now8

        Them free streaming sites are responsible for my dick becoming 1″ shorter due to excessive rubbing

      • Argle Bargle

         ”watching multiple times per day”…what are ya doin’ bragging??? LOL

  • V_detta

    All
    this god damn talk about piracy and these politicians helping stop
    piracy with all their power is just fucking (excuse my language)
    sickening right about now when there is bigger problems like the gun
    problem in America but they don’t want to do shit about that and even
    more ridiculous is that I see a headline like this.. 
    ‘Illegal’ Kinder Eggs get U.S. men border detention.    

    Then there’s talk on banning costumes in movie theatres… what kind of sick backwards world do we live in.

    • Mwhahaha

      It’s not sick, it’s just dumb for the most part.

    • theonlyone

      We will never ever get rid of guns, drugs, prostitution or piracy no matter what governments, religions or corporations try to do. Look at countries where guns are illegal to own. Look at New York city. You can only make these things harder and reduce the numbers until only hardcore criminals and institutions profit from it. We will never be rid of dumbass people either, so if there were no guns people would still be killed from bombs, knives, poison you name it.

      Criminalizing things produces more criminals, therefore producing more profit for governments, banks and large corporations.I dont buy into “ban this or ban that”. A very large percentage of laws on the books today are purely for profit in the guise of doing it for the common good of people. Cut out 50% of government and that would be an excellent start.

    • don’tsteponmyrights

      The only gun problem in the United States of America is the fact that the good people are not allowed to cary a gun to protect them selves from criminals that don’t care about the law.  If only one decent person had a gun then he would of been the hero who stoped a crazy guy from shooting a bunch of people.

  • jack murdock

    How would they be able to know if a song was accquired through hard drive swapping?    With P2P such as torrents, people can send songs out to thousands of people at the same time.  Somehow I doubt a few people lending out their thumb drives to their friends is bigger than torrents.

    • Mwhahaha

      What you’re forgetting is that whilst online piracy has been demonized in recent years, taking a copy from a friend hasn’t been attacked and branded evil for many, many a year. This being the case people who would never think of pirating online will be very happy to take a hard copy from someone else. That’s been done for decades.
      You also forget that these days we might be entering a phase where one guy with a VPN downloads secure from detection and distributes the CD or film to all his friends.What the RIAA is perhaps forgetting is that this has always happened. I had about 8 real albums as a kid and then a pile of C90s bigger than I was, all taped from people I knew. I still went and bought new CDs and vinyl when I could afford it.

    • Guest

      How would they know?

      My guess is that they pulled that statistic out of the same place where they pull IP addresses to sue people. A random number generator, or their ass.

    • Guest

      Hahahaha, oh shit. Even Jack “I <3 the MAFIAA" murdock is calling bullshit on the RIAA's statistics.

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      I suggest you look at the “Frostwire” app. Any kid with a smartphone only has to designate a folder on their SD card and activate bluetooth…and suddenly you are a participant in an ad-hoc swarm involving just about anyone within range.

      The point being that you don’t loan out a thumb drive. You switch on your smartphone and that’s it. Just sitting in a classroom turns the entire class into part of the network and the downloading takes place in peace and quiet while you’re just attending class.

      And you are wrong about p2p dimensions as well. The biggest swarm I’ve ever seen (using Ubuntu as the example) contained twelve peers to which I was actively uploading. Out of a total participant swarm count numbering a hundred thousand.

      In p2p, even with the most heavily shared material you are likely to have uploaded to no more than 3-6 people at the same time. In short, any claim that a single p2p user has shared a file with thousands of people is hyperbole of insane levels.

      • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

        “In short, any claim that a single p2p user has shared a file with thousands of people is hyperbole of insane levels.”

        You must also take the cumulative effect into account. Only five downloaders, then seeding to 25 new, those seeding to 125 new, those seeding to 625 etc. In very short time there may be millions of copies even if there were only a handful people involved at the first upload.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          I am fully aware of the iterative effect.

          However, the point which is painstakingly being made here is that any single uploader can ONLY be called to account for creating somewhere around 3-6 copies of a given work, unless they’ve been running what amounts to a dedicated personal seedbox.

          So. which person at random are you going to nail for the creation of ALL of these unauthorized copies?

          There is simply no way in which you can justify pushing culpability on to any individual for the actions of others. It necessitates abolishing a few key areas of law, most notably the ones claiming proportionality and burden of proof as stringent criteria for a trial.

  • Pingback: Agnosus » Over 70% of pirated music comes from offline sharing

  • Mwhahaha

    That’s us all having our hands chopped off then…

  • Countvonthizzle

    Usenet & Sneakernet FTW! BTW I’m almost 50. and have been using Usenet since 1994

  • Wala

    In 19th Century, being a musician meant traveling from town to town all the time and performing live every time just to earn a few bucks. Back then, it’s impossible to be a rich and famous artist – The same goes with actors. But because of technology (radio, tv, and vinyl records), distribution of their works becomes fast and widespread. A new generation of artists becomes rich and famous.
    Now, new technology enables us to instantly SHARE these works of art.
    They should understand from history that profit from the music industry is not always that easy to make. They should understand the changes in the dynamics of it all.

  • http://twitter.com/meekcritic Meek Critic

     Here is another open letter to the RIAA:

    To Whom It May Concern,

    I was pleased to receive a response from “Elliot” regarding my ideas on how to combat piracy.  At the time, I wasn’t privy to this wealth of information.  I’d like to make a few more suggestions.  I will not charge for these ideas and I’m posting this here instead of sending them directly to Elliot so that we can sound a warning shot to all perpetrators.  So, online and offline scoundrels beware, you are on notice!

    It’s clear that hard drives and CD/DVD burners are a big problem.  We need to ask ourselves if these devices should be in the hands of ordinary people who do not truly need this technology.

    I propose a ban on CD/DVD burners until the piracy problem is resolved once and for all.  I also propose a few feature changes that hard drive manufacturers must implement within 6 months.  The ability to copy files should be prevented.  We all know that copying leads to copyright infringement.  There’s no good reason why anyone would want to copy a file anyway and don’t give me that “fair use backup” excuse.  No one’s buying it.  Back your shit up in the cloud, but don’t use any of the services on the RIAA’s radar.

    If these technological measures aren’t possible then perhaps we should look into a PC embargo. 

    I look forward to our continued dialog.

    • Sarcastic

       That was too much sarcasm!!

  • Anonymous

    1. RIAA wants to be able to scan for pirated music.
    2. Can’t use DRM.
    3. Compiles huge database of everyone’s music purchases.
    4. They bribe Congress into letting them go TSA on people.
    5. Everyone gets creeped out about being tracked by the RIAA.
    6. PSN-level hack of their database.

  • DinFeee

    Well now that jsut makes a ll kinds of crazy sense lol.
    Anon-Rules.tk

  • Jimjones

    As long as silly little artists such as Justin earn 300.000$ per show they should not complaint about a few girls downloading/sharing his silly music. The earnings in the entertainment industry ( and that is ALL it is…entertainment) are completely out of proportion and frankly simply silly. If loss of income means a gold Bentley less per year….hey…sue me….Idiots…

  • Student

    I have been swapping music with my friends since I was 8 , and got my first MP3 player. Even today we still exchange USB’S loaded with CD-Rips . This is not piracy, its like sharing a book with someone. Silly RIAA

  • Wallace

    Where’s radio and streaming and Youtube? That’s unpaid music acquisition too.

    • Anyone

      there are usually contracts in place for the MAFIAA to syphon money out of those services as well

    • Simpson

      Radio broadcasters have to pay for a license. And then if the radio is played in a public place that is deemed as rebroadcasting so another license has to be paid for… so the MAFIAA get paid twice. It’s one of the biggest scams they’ve been running for decades!

  • Pingback: Torrent News » RIAA: Online Music Piracy Pales In Comparison to Offline Swapping

  • Cujo

    good point here ,, as I mentioned last week ,, I’ve never downloaded music or movies  ,, never had to  ,, and don’t want to  ,,  we swap and copy ,, dang it ,, I got 100 G’s of mp3′s that I’ve never listened to ,, it’s lossless or nothing for my ears  ;)

  • ScrewEwe2

    The RIAA are a bunch of fucking Retards. I guess if I let a neighbor borrow a CD for a few day’s while they are on vacation, I’m a freakin’ Perp.

    Perp This RIAA.

  • Guest

    Wow it’s like if these guys suddenly forgot that their industry was built by mixtapes.
    One of the earliest and most noble of unpaid music transfers, before the era of DRM.

  • Erthwjim

    Well what you probably have is several people that download off the net via usenet, torrents, ftp etc. These people then use their hard drives to share with their friends that might not be so internet savvy. I’d say that this hard drive trading model becomes even more prominent the more they shut down p2p and other methods of online sharing. Shutting down p2p sites won’t stop the more seasoned file sharers from using other p2p sites, usenet, or ftp, it just gets rid of the common folk (for lack of a better term). And it’s probably the seasoned file sharers that are doing the hard drive “trading”. 

    • chronoss chiron

      ya let he people with a brain trade online and offline to the not so brainey

  • Linton

    Combined with the previous leaked report from the IFPI, these figures would seem to suggest that the Megaupload takedown reduced total piracy by a staggering 0.2% or less. In other words, everyone who would have had a 10,000 track music collection had the conspiracy continued now only has 9,980 tracks. Crisis averted!

    Also, if we believe Megaupload’s claim that they consumed 4% of all internet traffic, and also believe the combined figures from these two reports, together suggesting they accounted for only a little more than 1% of all internet piracy, surely killing Megaupload was 4 times less effective than just killing 4% of all internet traffic chosen at random.  Perhaps they will try that next?

    • Guest

       Well that makes them look like fools. Math and logic.
      The RIAA’s natural enemy.

  • chronoss chiron

    FILTER that you cocknocking music execs , hahaahahahaha
    ya cant stop it now too many people swap about now….game over get a new macdonalds job

  • Jsprlzbh

    If  i were a general skeptic,  i’d say governments have their own reasons for “regulating” the internet,  if i were a paranoid person,  i’d say copyright “extremists” are a perfect scape goat…… if shit were to,  proverbially,  hit the fan

    IF, i was inclined to think so, ….. off course, ….. because, EVERYONE knows our governments have rainbows coming out their asses. 

  • Shogunreaper

    How are they tracking how people share things offline?

    • Anyone

      same as anything else: pull numbers out of their ass

    • Jsprlzbh

      ………..voodoo?

    • Cujo

       they read torrentfreak  ;)

  • Anon#32

    This is BS of the highest order. How could you possibly begin calculate the amount of offline file sharing.

    • Master

      Magic.

  • Guest

    This is not about culture. It’s about money. USA is a police state and TSA will some day search for “pirates”.

  • Miami Sunset

    Not all unpaid music is illegal. That’s one thing they don’t seem to factor in. I can legally get a lot of songs from the Internet.

    • Ophelia Millais

      You’re right; the title of the chart is less than ideal. It implies that all unpaid sources are illegal, and that their list of illegal sources is exhaustive. However, I do have to give them some credit for the actual content of the chart.
      Aside from some random promotions, RIAA members generally aren’t offering music except through the “paid” sources, which in the chart are represented by CD and digital download sales. Maybe there are other paid sources, but they don’t amount to enough to be worth including, or they’re in a different category altogether (i.e. streaming or secondhand sales).Likewise, maybe there are more “unpaid” sources than just the four they mention, but either those sources don’t amount to much, or I think more likely, they’re only concerned about the sources that are definitely (or almost definitely) illegal. For example, one of the unpaid categories is “burning/ripping from others“, and they don’t have a category for burning/ripping from your own CDs, because that’s not illegal, even though they refuse to acknowledge that fact publicly.

  • Jtm8

    Can you post the whole presentation?

    • Ophelia Millais

      Or perhaps could someone who has access to it please post it?

  • Dollarnator

     What they need to do is 1st change the internet to be Wal-Mart and paypal only. Then the crack down.

    Go door to door and search every house. Put up a road block on every street. Mandatory strip searches. They have to show the receipt for every CD and DVD. And every song and movie on their computer. Or it’s automatic death penalty. Shoot to kill on the spot. No exceptions no excuses. And not just in America. It’s the patriot act which means the whole world.

    • http://twitter.com/jimmy6p jimmy kraktov

      That’s funny! I’m buying stock in the bullet factory :~)

  • GUEST

    The MAFIAA spends all this money on beating the wrong horse. They’re certified retards.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/L2FW55JCG4NNVE2CCP5336XJRE Cheese!

    As usual, these comment section pissing contests never fail to amuse.
    Amuse….and depress. How can people be so bloody stupid?

    • http://twitter.com/jimmy6p jimmy kraktov

      That’s a mirror you’re looking at.

  • Cracker

    sharing is mutherfuckin caring.. 

    • http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

      Yes, if you share something you actually own and have the legal right to share. Sharing pirated files is mutherfuckin caring for yourself only and disrespect for the artists.

      • Alwvmlqt

        Shuddup, you’re a broken record.

      • Fredrika

        > “Yes, if you share something you actually own and have the legal right to share.”

        Again you prove how little you know of copyright and property laws. People own all the property involved in filesharing. Secondly, you do not need a right to share, because society does not work in that way, that everything is forbidden until you have a right to do something. That a legislative monopoly doesn’t regulate certain manufacturing and distribution does not equal that one has a right.

        Finally, caring is obviously caring regardless of if a legislative monopoly regulates certain manufacturing and distribution, because those you care for get the care regardless.

        > “Sharing pirated files is mutherfuckin caring for yourself only..”

        You seem to forget all the others that get the copies from you.

        > “..and disrespect for the artists.”

        Disregarding an illegitimate legislative monopoly that intrudes into one’s own property unjustly is obviously not disrespectful to any other party. The only disrespectful aspect would be believing that the monopoly’s intrusion into people’s property rights should be adhered in the first place.

  • Alwvmlqt

    OK, I get the P2P, paid and filelocker results but OFFLINE too?

    How do they hope to track offline swaping of hdds?

    This “research” is complete and utter bullshit.

    I might have bought the story if it didn’t have the offline swapping results.

  • PRIVACY is priceless to me

    The movie/music industry is long dead, they could turn the Internet off, they’ll still be going instinct like dinosaurs, nobody should ever pay to listen to shitty music or for being kind enough to actually _watch_ Hollywood shits.

    • Alwvmlqt

       going “extinct” m8 ;)

  • Scary_Devil_Monastery


    But maybe the RIAA will go after these offline swappers next. The TSA could perform piracy scans of travelers’ computer equipment, for example. Or perhaps schools could search MP3 players, phones and computers of their students for unpaid music?”

    See “ACTA” where screening MP3 players, phones and computers in customs for “illegal files” would carry the same weight as screening for illegal chemical substances would.

    Hence yes, there have already been ample attempts to introduce laws mandating such screening.

  • http://twitter.com/cabalamat Philip Hunt

    Obviously we need to ban hard disks in order to combat music piracy. or at least, that’ll be the RIAA’s next target.

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  • TigDooo

    I think someone over at the RIAA is smoking some serious crack lol.
    Anon-Webs.tk 

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_22FADEHRLLZH6QRBJXCCXV4C4I GP1

    What the RIAA is really saying: “We were stealing from artists before it was cool.  How dare people have the nerve to think that music should be free?  How dare someone burn a copy for a friend.  We have hungry mouths to feed, and inflated prices to charge.”

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  • Gae

    So they invest all of their money, bribes, lawyers, lobbyists and effort into tackling the online side of things when they know that this represents such a small portion of their problem?
    Clearly their goal is not stopping piracy then, so what else can it be about?
    If you look at the laws they have invented and tried to pass over the last few years then it is clear, they really just want to have control of the internet – I guess because it is such a major source of entertainment yet its usage is currently out of the hands of the people who once thought they ruled over all entertainment.

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  • Soloflair

    Its not the 60s or 70s anymore days of plastic records are gone  going to the store a buy an LP for $20 is gone ! I can make a perfect copy of a song through my radio and record it on my iphone lol its always been about control VHS doesn’t work in Britain. number codes on DVDs this is the age of I.T…:) I see very, very soon you will have a pocket flash drive with every song on it ,up to that date.. ever known to man ! and I will NEVER be able to listen to them all in my life time ! To be or not to be that is the question ? is that copyright ? 

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  • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

    I think we have to face the fact that expecting the MAFIAA to agree to any kind of healthy internet competition is like expecting turkeys to vote for Christmas (or 4th July). As a number have said, both here and elsewhere, it is becoming increasingly apparent to even the most ardent MAFIAA arse-licker that its current vicious campaign of intimidation and extortion has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharing of files, and everything to do with the emergence of competing ways for artists to reach their markets. And judging by what I have read and seen of current industry contracts, competing is not going to be difficult.

    What we are witnessing here is the typical behaviour of a neighbourhood drug-peddling gang when competition moves into the area, right down to the widespread calling in of favours from local ‘law’ enforcement and the bullying of local people. But if people prefer to deal with the new lot all they have to do is vote with their wallets. Money is the only thing these morons understand, and the only thing that gives them power. And we give it to them. And we must stop giving it to them.

    I know it is easy to say that, but it is actually simple to implement, and it will work. It just requires a lot of determination and ‘crowd-sourcing’, and what better tool for that than the very internet these criminal thugs are trying so desperately to take away from us; and if we wait till that happens it will be too late. The people got together in such a fashion to smash the ACTA in the EU, so why can they not do the same to smash the MAFIAA in the US?

    A boycott is not rocket science, and it very effectively and quickly bankrupted a nation-wide jewellery chain in Britain when the CEO pissed off his customers by insulting them. Just imagine the effect if the next multi-mega-billion-dollar Hollywood blockbuster’s opening night was attended by no-one, anywhere: first night receipts zero. Throw in a worldwide 48 hour boycott of music from official sources and I suspect there would be a few brown trousers in the MAFIAA.

    I don’t think that would have to be done too often to put them on the ropes, as the political rats would desert the sinking treasure ship in droves. Then competition would be able to show its head and finish off the greedy, corrupt MAFIAA forever.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DWWRNN3HXZZGABBB52UR3PEY4Y Häagen-Dazs

    I P2P all day with a VPN get over it

  • http://www.facebook.com/sean.gilpin.16 Sean Gilpin

    Interesting chart. Now make it more realistic by adding the combined 75% that represents music aired by radio stations and music created immediately in the Public Domain (the greater majority of that percentage coming from the latter category).

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  • http://whynotaskme.org/ WhyNotAskMe

    A tension will always exist in the bargain between consumers and content creators. Though they draw their raw material from what came before and belongs to us all, we grant them an exclusive monopoly for a limited time that they might have incentive to create their transformative works. The tension arises from the fact that once a work is released into the collective experience it lives in this strange quantum state like Schrodinger’s cat. It is both a part of our collective consciousness while at the same time the creator’s exclusive property. 

    People become impatient after some time passes to claim that work as their own, since it is now in fact a part of our cultural heritage. Other creators cannot help but scoop up a piece of that work when they reach into the collective consciousness to obtain raw material for their own work, and thus may come into conflict with the original creator. 

    Granting the monopoly in the first place is not sufficient. Government resources need to be allocated to enforce the rights given the author. Courts need to be provided to adjudicate any disputes that may arise. It is not an easy bargain. We pay dearly for the expectation of the creations we hope to enjoy in return. 

    Actually, calling it a “bargain” made between the consumer and producer would give the false impression that some kind of direct negotiation needs to take place. The term’s use is metaphorical. There is no such thing in actuality, as the content producers have no inherent right to negotiate terms. They only have a take it or leave it proposition. If they like the terms we set, they will likely take advantage of our offer and be fruitful, but only the people can decide how much they are willing to sacrifice for what they hope to receive in return. 

    In the “bargain” between the copyright holders and us, our politicians should be representing the people. Instead, they are representing the copyright owners and giving away the store! For just one example, in the USA and many other countries, copyright duration has expanded from the original 14 years to life plus 70 years. With an average life expectancy of 78 years and a work created at age 28, that would mean 120 years that work is withheld from the public domain. Do creators of transformative works require this as an incentive before they will create their works? Of course not! 

    To put the rights groups in control is to have the tail wag the dog. This can only cause people to become upset and act impulsively to the detriment of all. A civil society depends on respect for the law in order to function. The only alternative is a police state. When politicians start representing the special interests groups who fill their campaign coffers people lose respect for the laws they create and civil society begins to break down. Political corruption is a very, very serious issue with far ranging implications. 

    Copyrights legislation has become an out of control freight train on a downward grade. The power of the corporate lobbies needs to be curbed and their voices muted. The people must be heard.
    http://whynotaskme.org/ 

    • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

      It is refreshing to read this even, carefully structured analysis of the problem. Ranting about how clever we are at evading the Gestapo will not make it go away; only by creating a global perception that the real criminals are the Media Corporations, not the people, will we ultimately do that.

      I would only take slight exception to: “cause people to become upset and act impulsively to the detriment of all.” I think people are becoming a lot more than just ‘upset’ as it dawns on them that these criminal cartels and their puppet governments are trying to construct in secret a global police state to control the people as farmers do their battery hens. And nothing the people can do will ever be more ‘detrimental’ than that.

      Much as i respect the even tone of your approach I do think the time is coming when quite serious public unrest will be needed to put these animals in their place. ‘Why not ask me?’ you say. Well, we know the answer to that: “Because we don’t give a toss about you.”

      It is worth noting that ACTA was thrown out by the European Parliament not because the MEPs are wonderful warm human beings, but because the people gave them a simple ultimatum: “Throw this out or we will throw you out”. Why can this not be done in America, the Land of the Free?

      Rather than pleading with these dictators to listen to us, we should be threatening to smash their corrupt edifice if they don’t.

  • desbest

    The amount of money they get from royalties, covers the 15% P2P piracy rate, many many times. Think about it.

  • Sharing-Freak

    I have been sharing my CDs, DVDs, tapes, 8-tracks, records, video cassettes, blue-rays, HD-DVDs, laser discs, et-al, forever!
    So what!? So what!? So what!?  WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT, RIAA???

    • http://profiles.google.com/daniel142005 Daniel Weisinger

      I still want to know how much of this “hard drive trading” or “burning/ripping” is actually legal. The RIAA seems to be under the impression that once you buy a song, cd, or whatever, that it is only leased to you. Turning around and reselling that song (that you paid for) would be copyright infringement under their terms. They have absolutely no reliable way to determine this data anyway… I mean, how does the RIAA know what I do with my external hard drive? A survey? lol. Btw, where does local and internet radio fit into all of this? Not counting clubs and other places that have to license music to play it.

      In the mean time, I won’t be buying any music (Pandora and the radio work fine for me) until the artists get at least 80% of the revenue, and I will gladly tell the RIAA to fuck off every time.

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  • http://twitter.com/jimmy6p jimmy kraktov

    An old neighbor of mine (he moved) has over 32 thousand mp3 files. He told me that about 500 of them came from p2p, and the rest from “friends”. Unfortunately for me, I didn’t like his taste in music. He also said that he had given his ‘collection’ to “about 15″ of his friends and family.

    So, in his case, less than 2% of his music came to him from the ‘net. He owns “a couple of dozen” CDs.

    Add that to your ‘chart’, RIAA :~)

    P.S.>>> He did a “midnite move” about 2 years ago, so don’t come around asking me where to find him. His old landlord and at least one ‘skip tracer’ are in line ahead of you.

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  • zhongguo394

    tinyurl.com/cyk9xz2

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  • Bucaneer

    So the point of the article is. “We’re not the biggest offenders, just a piracy business making money so leave us alone to profit from stealing other peoples hard work.? 

    Fuck you. 

  • zhongdu

    tinyurl.com/cyk9xz2

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