Perhaps copyright laws are up for a change, no doubt about that, I agree completly, but until such time, we cannot go around taking products just cause we feel like it. There is such a thing as ownership. These corporations do own RIGHTS to these products. How long they have rights to them? Well I guess thats up to these laws, and we sure could change them (any law can be changed), but until such time, again, we cannot go around just taking products for free.

If your answer is YES to download free products, then thats your choice. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Donations and what-not is not part of buying a product. When you donate money, you dont donate expecting something in return.

Im sure there are artists out there that take donations and give away free music, of those I agree, go download their products from the NET, as their product is FREE, and they make their money thru donations and concerts and merchandise.

What we talking about here are not those types of artists. These are corporations that make money off the PRODUCT, not from donations, therefore, the product is not free for download. Why? Because these corporations put a copyright on the product.
Could these corporations take the same road as those free artists? Perhaps, but thats not what they are and what they do.

Trying to compare 2 different individuals (or in this case an artist to a corporation) is not likely to be viewed correctly. Your mind is set to artists that make their money on donations and concerts and what-not.
These types of corporations are not similar to your free artists. They spend millions of dollars on ADs and the creation of the product, therefore, creating thousands of jobs. In any given time, corporations have hundreds, and sometimes thousands of employees. They need to be paid thru the products they create.
Your free artist is just himself. Perhaps he may have a few people here and there, but thats it. Think about a world without corporations. Our unemployment would be half the world. Sorry to tell you, but that does not sound to delightfull to me. Are these corporations greedy? More then likely, but thats where your freedom comes in. You choose to buy their product or not. If you see a corporation that greedy, then dont support their products. Dont download and take their products. Thats one way to teach them to stop being greedy. (then again this is wishfull thinking)…

“Scuze, I dont get this. Can you ellaborate more on this? I dont want to assume (again)…”
Currently copyright for something is the life of the author + 70 years, don’t you think that is WAY too long? I think it should be until someone successfully gets around the DRM or whatever to use it however they like, that would then encourage the corporations to make better forms or DRM, and would boost sales dramatically as everyone will buy it to try and crack it.

“The question is, should you be allowed to download products (that are copyrighted) for FREE???”
The answer is yes. There is such a thing called donations, it allows you to give an artist/NPO/whatever money without having to buy their product (or buy it another time.)

Funny thing is I don’t distribute it, I have nothing to put onto a torrent and upload, there are many torrents fir the same stuff, me uploading it would just mean that the same amount of peers are divided among even more torrent files.

You are missing the point here. Im not talking about YOU (you alone). We talking about all the people that share software/movies/music.
They all share the same common interest. To download paid products for FREE, therefore, all of them distribute the product for FREE.

I am aware of the fact that is not a criminal case, but a civil one. Im not a lawyer, so I cant speak for this, BUT, what happens if you get charged with piracy and they fine you say XYZ amount of dollars and you cant pay. Not sure if you go to jail or not. I was under the impression that you would, but maybe im wrong on that one. Again no a lawyer so I cant say. I just assumed….

You said:

The difference is how long it takes them to break it, maybe I.P. laws should change, so the object in question’s copyright expires when the DRM is null and void, myabe these corporations will then make better DRM rather than

Scuze, I dont get this. Can you ellaborate more on this? I dont want to assume (again)…

Im sure they could spend lots and lots of time on protection, etc etc.
I believe what they are trying to do is to teach some of the people a lesson, so that others will follow piracy. That wont work, on the contrary, it makes people even more pissed off, but again that irrelevant. The fact is they take a product and distribute it for free. They loose money. They will be pissed off, hell you would too if someone took your work and distribute it for free, whereas, you could have made money off it.

I dont deny that many of them (corporations) are *******, but thats not the question here. The question is, should you be allowed to download products (that are copyrighted) for FREE???
My answer to that is NO. Will people do it? Heck yeah, but you know its wrong. What you choose to do, its YOUR choice, just dont go all nuts when the corporations start to sue you for taking their products.

Funny thing is I don’t distribute it, I have nothing to put onto a torrent and upload, there are many torrents fir the same stuff, me uploading it would just mean that the same amount of peers are divided among even more torrent files.

“I understand again why you think this way. You are not in US, thats one, you dont understand how corporations work, thats two, and you want everything for free, thats three.

Well Ill give you the first 2, but the third one, sorry, you need to learn how the world works, and that is MONEY.”
I never stated I wanted everything for free, I get a satisfaction in earning things and being able to afford things when others can’t. That is my main drive for cash, otherwise I would never dream of earning money, I could just live off welfare, like some many others do in the world.

“OK, point taken, but I would not talk that easily when someone shows up at your door with a warrant for a court date, you loose and spend some time in jail. Im sure you will do just fine in jail (I hope that ownt happen to you, seriously now)…”
Filesharing is a civil case, not a criminal case, so unless they changed the laws while I was last sleeping, I wouldn’t go to jail for it.

“Yes you are correct, I give you that. They could improve it, no doubt about it.
Remember, what one man can build, another can break. In other words, anytime a person builds something (in this case a layer of protection), someone else will come up with that idea of how to break it.”
The difference is how long it takes them to break it, maybe I.P. laws should change, so the object in question’s copyright expires when the DRM is null and void, myabe these corporations will then make better DRM rather than

1. do illegal shit to catch people filesharing copyrighted material
2.sue
3.????
4.profit

You said:

“These corporations don’t own the software, they own the RIGHT TO DISTRIBUTE IT, so all they do is put that movie onto a DVD, slap on copy protection (which if they didn’t want us to rip they could honestly just improve it) put it in a case and ship it out to your local stores.”

Bingo, you finally get it. Quite amazing, really.
They OWN the RIGHT TO DISTRIBUTE.
Do you know what that means?

That means, they own the right to make copies and distribute that movie to anyone, anywhere (either consumer or retailer).
You are becoming them. You are NOT the corporation. You say you despise them, yet you are THEM (in a way).
They distribute the software/movie to the public (for a price of course).
You do the same. You buy a copy of a movie and them distribute it to the mass (internet users).
The only difference is you dont charge for it.
The corporation does. The only reason they do and you dont is because THEY MADE the product. It cost them MONEY to make it (and lots of it).
It cost you a fraction of what it took to make that product, therefore, it does not give you the right to distribute that product for free.
You own the right to view and enjoy the product, NOT to distribute it to others for free.

I understand again why you think this way. You are not in US, thats one, you dont understand how corporations work, thats two, and you want everything for free, thats three.

Well Ill give you the first 2, but the third one, sorry, you need to learn how the world works, and that is MONEY.
Not sure what country you in, but in this country we have a say:
Money talks, bullshit walks…

That may sound a bit rude to you, but thats reality…

You said you understand them, and that you dont fear them???
OK, point taken, but I would not talk that easily when someone shows up at your door with a warrant for a court date, you loose and spend some time in jail. Im sure you will do just fine in jail (I hope that ownt happen to you, seriously now)…

“You honestly believe they cant improve DRM………..”

Yes you are correct, I give you that. They could improve it, no doubt about it.
Remember, what one man can build, another can break. In other words, anytime a person builds something (in this case a layer of protection), someone else will come up with that idea of how to break it.

My grammar is just fine. Perhaps our way of talking here is a bit different, and if you dont undertand something, please ask. Ill be more than glad to elaborate further…

How many times will I have to tell you, stealing REMOVES THE ORIGINAL, that is if a store has 10 copies of Transformers, stealing a copy would leave them with 9 copies, when I go out and buy Transformers, then rip it to my HDD and upload it to The Pirate Bay, that is not stealing, I bought the movie, but then I copied it and uploaded it, allowing millions to download that ONE copy. These corporations don’t own the software, they own the RIGHT TO DISTRIBUTE IT, so all they do is put that movie onto a DVD, slap on copy protection (which if they didn’t want us to rip they could honestly just improve it) put it in a case and ship it out to your local stores.

Also, could you please improve your grammar? It is really difficult to understand half of what you say….

“Its a natural way of humanity, to hate something you don’t understand or something you fear.”

I understand them, I do not fear them, even if I got a DCMA notice (hey, what would I care, last time I checked I didn’t live in the US, and US law doesn’t apply here :D) rather, I despise them, and so I will not fund them, will use what is available to get something that they shouldn’t have any power over. If I could, I would happily pay all the people who worked to make it far more than what I would buy the product for, they deserve it, not the corporations.

Are you so naive that you honestly believe that these corporations can’t better protect the products they sell? It would be much easier to just improve DRM technology, but you can make a lot more money suing everyone for every fucking cent they have.

You got it partially right.

Yes, the internet its FREE INFORMATION, and still is.
The internet its NOT free downloads for paid products.

There is a difference. Information is free (well minus the darn ADs, lol), but NOT products.
You are sick of America doing business they way they do, but thats their choice. If you dont like it, dont support them by buying their products. Meanwhile, dont download them either, because if you do, then you just contradicted yourself.

Simple…

You opposing them, and taking their product is not of understanding.

You may oppose them, fine, many do anyways, because of their business believes and what not.
But you taking THEIR product. Hate them, dont hate them, you still taking their product, so in the end, YOU STILL want what they make.

If they were not here to make these products, then you would not have it. You would not watch that movie, or this movie, or listen to this music of that music.

You see, you dont think about this rationally. You think about this with hatred and confussion.

Many people hate corps out there. Its a natural way of humanity, to hate something you dont understand or something you fear.
These people want to make the most money ouf of each movie/song…

Yep, they are greedy, no doubt about it.
Yep, they suck, no doubt about it.
Yep, they reap all the benefits, no doubt about it.

But its still THEIR product. If they choose to make a product and protected with certain types of rights, guess what? ITS their right to do so, as its THEIR product, NOT yours.

If you were thinking on a larger scale of things, perhaps you would understand that it is STEALING.

Since you think with hatred and disagreement, then you will not think its stealing.

You forgetting something.
Its a product that you take. No matter how you take it, you still take a product. It does not matter if they have MORE of the product to give others, you still taking a product for free.
No matter how you look at it, YOU TAKING a product. Let me repeat. You taking a product, therefore, its stealing. Simple, very simple.

Im happy you enjoying Valve’s games and what not. Thats THEIR way of doing business.
If you dont like the way microsoft does business, than dont buy from them. Its quite simple.
If you dont like all these companies, then dont buy from them. At the same time, dont download their stuff either, because if you do, then you just contradicted yourself.

Lets put it in simpler terms.
You hate a company. You dont like their way of business. Great…
Dont buy from them. Dont download their stuff either.

You like a company (IE Valve). You download their stuff. You buy their stuff. Great, I agree with you and you are not stealing anything, as you support the company by buying many of their products.

See the difference?
When you hate a company and its ways of business, you dont want to support them, therefore, you dont buy their products, BUT, you download them. In other words, you taking from a corp products without paying for it.
Why dont you go download and take things from the companies you like so much?

Its quite simple you know. You can defend your downloads all you want, but you dont use the right decisions to make that choice. You use all the wrong decisions (IE hate the company, dont like the company, company suckx etc etc)…
Therefore, you dont rationalize your thoughts completely due to personal views and desires.

“The fact of the matter is that anytime you copy COPYRIGHT product, you stealing. You taking something from someone that cost them money, and you getting it for free.”

I accidentally the whole thing, what should I do?

“If you want a movie so badly, why dont you go buy it?

If you want a piece of software so badly, why dont you go buy it?

Can you give me a reason for these actions (your right to download)???”

If I bought them I’d just be supporting the companies I so openly oppose (eg; EA, Time Warner, Sony/BMG) and help fund corruption and twisted copyright. I would rather pay the same amount and have all the money go to those who produce it (director, writer, actors – but some of them get payed way too much, film crew, guys in effects, etc.) Those are the people who deserve all the money. In 1998 music corperations tried to make mp3 players illegal, as they thought it would ruin their profits, they have also done the same with DVDs, CDs and video cassettes. Once they figured out how to make even more money out of them they did all they could to get people to buy them. Valve is currently the only PC gaming company that I would consider buying PC games from. They have gone about things the right way with Steam and the source engine. As long as I sign in with my account I could have my games on 50 different computers. I can also have all my achievements and save files consistant across all of those computers. They also often have free weekends (where you can play a game for that weekend without buying it) you can send people a several day unrestricted demo of a game and they also often have discounts on games and have value packs for some of the games. The thing that I really love is, since most of their newer games run on the source engine files become smaller if you have more of the games. More corporations should learn somethign from Valve.

and now with that filter the government wants to put in…

what happened to a free information internet, as was originally intended?

i believe iinet will lose this one, but i’m crossing my fingers that a miracle happens…