What do you think about 99% of 20K customers disagreeing with the court case and law that makes it possible?

Also it’s not a customer that is at fault here to go for appeal it is ISP decision based on what ISP customers want. If you had a choice to defend your customers(99% of those who voted which seems to be 18K of people) in court risking your money or not defending them and risking your customer base? What would you pick?

Also is law right if many people disagree with it or not for you? Just for case of using word “unlawful” in arguments.
http://www.englishrussia.org

People like you cry about the 120K users that didn’t pay, but forget to be grateful to those 20K that did pay for it and will bring in 200K-400k per month in revenue.

There are lines in society that you don’t cross, stupid people will try to do it and they will be reminded of why they shouldn’t, like the music industry that is now suing people without fanfare because their campaign to “educate” people tanked their sales in 2008 in more than 50% they did a better job and making people stop paying than the pirates ever did.

120 Jul 17, 2009 at 12:27 by BioShockerT81

@114: I’m not talking about motivation. I’m talking about money. Greed leads to accumulation of money, and money is necessary to development. Therefore, greed is necessary to development.

Yep greed is part but not all that leads to accumulation of money, there are other reasons that lead to it, but I will tell you, all the successuful people I work with don’t really mind the money they are more foccused on the job when people get greedy is when they start making mistakes and end up with nothing except in the case of banks those guys a greedy pro that squandered and made the world pay for it LoL
Seriously greedy is an component and should be included but it is not the only one and his role can be without context it doesn’t mean anything.

@115: The only thing that is delusional here is you how pirates managed to convince yourselves that reducing the costumer base and therefore reducing income, somehow isn’t damaging the market. Or how an industry which on most occasions incur such heavy losses, can somehow manage to break those losses even, pay for the huge development costs of the few actual successes, and generate profits, without people actually PAYING them for their work.

The copyright industry in the U.S. cannot compete with other nations, the bad thing about copyright is that let people expect they deserve things without working for it. The industrial park in the U.S. is in shambles and that is why their economy is going to the toilet. Copyright right now is a barrier that prevent people from using the intelectual resources of the country to produce something, other countries don’t have this problem as they don’t enforce this types of laws or don’t have the means to do it and they grow and expand like the japanese did, like the U.S. did and like all other countries did it before, little greedy people think they can sit on their asses and collect from the rest and force them to take it well we’ll see.

@116: Sales don’t go up when piracy goes up, it’s simply that piracy rates follow sales. Obviously, titles that are popular enough to generate sales will also prompt a similar high number of pirates wanting to freeload it.

That is your interpretation, but the other way around is also true, one could argue that piracy increase exposure what leads to more sales and that is proven to be true with radio and I’m not talking about single sales but the overall number.

@117: Maybe some of them wouldn’t buy them at the initial price. But maybe they would get a 2nd hand copy a few years later for a quarter of the price, or maybe buy a subsidized magazine edition. Most of them would pay SOMETHING at SOME POINT. But since they can get it for free, right now, they won’t anymore. Why would they? I just can’t believe how pirates cannot understand that. Even a little child could see it.
And well, even if you are right, and piracy indeed can’t be stopped. What then? Do you think you’ll just get yourselves a free pass for everything? Well, you won’t, because the industry just won’t be able to cope with that. Companies make games because they can make profit from it. If you prevent them from making profit from it, they won’t just start handling everything over for free, they’ll just stop making games. That’s not because they are evil, that’s just because they won’t be able to accumulate enough capital to keep their business going. That’s simple economics. The only things that are going to survive will be, as I said, dumbed down cheap MMOGs. Until of course add-blocking becomes widespread enough that advertising can no longer generate any profits. But that’s just everybody reaping what the pirates have sown.

You see that expectative lead the copyright industry to think that 120 of copyright is fair, when it should be no more then 5 years and about sales, the pool of money inside a market it is limited if any one would do the basic math it wuold see that there is not enough money in the world to pay for all that it is consumed. The digital age brought light to the corner of the human behaviour that shows people sharing things with one another, and if we would see the numbers it clearly shows growth the industry is bigger then it was 20 years ago. What it is not enough to grow? They have to have it all?
You see trying to control something is easy up till a certain point after that that last mile becomes harder and harder and harder like just any complex system, to make things with 1 meter(3 foots) clearence is easy to make things with 1 nanometer clearence is incredible hard. This people should be greatfull that there is still people willing to pay for something and that they did find a market, people when they first start looking for a job are greatful just to find one, after a while they start to think it is boring or that they deserve more and they start poisoning themselves and end up without it. Be greatfull for what you have and acomplished be proud of it and don’t keep feeling sorry for yourself for what you think you could have.

1. No, greed is not necessary for development, that’s nonsense.
While Greed does indeed lead to accumulation of money, that’s not healthy for the economy. Capitalism is not directly connected to greed, most economist agree that greed is one of the evils of capitalism. Greed is in fact what has lead to the current economic crisis.
Capitalism on the other hand is widely considered healthy for the economy and leads to development. The drive capitalism is, I suppose, taking advantage of can’t be written down as greed.

2. While piracy reduces the costumer base somewhat, it’s not proven to be a drastic reduction. Filesharing has often resulted in increased exposure of an artist, in turn helping that artist enter new markets.

Regarding the heavy losses and high development costs, you need to remember that we’re not talking about medicine, machines or inventions; we’re talking about “art”.

I might add that in some countries a chair or a music track is enjoying better protection from copyright laws than a new medical product does through a patent –strange isn’t it?

3. Wrong again, no direct connection has been proven.
Many movies that tanked at the cinema had high download numbers, numbers that would match the boxoffice kings. Likewise some material that did great at retail didn’t have high download numbers.

It’s true that “pirates” are likely to pirate what is popular and what they like, but that doesn’t mean that they’d pay for it (or didn’t pay for it).

4. Most wouldn’t pay more than they do now, before the internet people would share their CDs, VHS and cassette tapes (not as in copy, but as in lend) with friends and colleagues. Often their friends would return the material after a while and never buy it.

A pirated copy does not equal a lost sale.

Think about it average Joe Pirate has perhaps 3000 tracks, 20 movies and 3 TV shows; he acquired all this content in a year. How much would that cost him if he was to buy it in a store? Quite a lot. Could he afford it? Maybe. Would be able to justify the expense? Most certainly no, and therefore he wouldn’t buy a whole lot of it.

It’s no secret that I’m a pirate (even though I still buy copyrighted material every now and then), most of the tracks I’ve downloaded, I’ve heard around 3 times or less. But the CD’s I’ve bought, well they’ve been spinning on my stereo for 20+ times – in their full length.

Each year I spend more and more money on art and media, if I couldn’t downloads music I wouldn’t spend more than I am now, I just don’t have the money. I might even spend less as I wouldn’t know what to spend my money on without feeling cheated.
The copyright industries are not losing money, sure some studios shut down every now and then, but that’s the way it’s always been.

When you look at music, movie or game distributers there’s a lot of fluff that could be cut away if they were to rely on digital distribution. I don’t know if the market and technology is 100% ready for such a move, but it’s the future.

You claim the only PC games that’ll survive are MMOG’s.
Well I think that’s quite likely, mostly because gamers want interaction and internet connections are just about everywhere you look. Most games seem headed for the MMO “genre”.
I doubt that’ll result in dumbed down games though.
Sure they’ll be streamlined for the casual user, just like their consol counterparts, but look at the market, the only place MMO’s are making money at the moment is on the PC. Furthermore most good MMO’s seem rather free of pirates.

Also, even if the industries are dying then don’t you think it’s time for them to eveolve and try a different business model? Something most have been unwilling to do.

@115: The only thing that is delusional here is you how pirates managed to convince yourselves that reducing the costumer base and therefore reducing income, somehow isn’t damaging the market. Or how an industry which on most occasions incur such heavy losses, can somehow manage to break those losses even, pay for the huge development costs of the few actual successes, and generate profits, without people actually PAYING them for their work.

@116: Sales don’t go up when piracy goes up, it’s simply that piracy rates follow sales. Obviously, titles that are popular enough to generate sales will also prompt a similar high number of pirates wanting to freeload it.

@117: Maybe some of them wouldn’t buy them at the initial price. But maybe they would get a 2nd hand copy a few years later for a quarter of the price, or maybe buy a subsidized magazine edition. Most of them would pay SOMETHING at SOME POINT. But since they can get it for free, right now, they won’t anymore. Why would they? I just can’t believe how pirates cannot understand that. Even a little child could see it.
And well, even if you are right, and piracy indeed can’t be stopped. What then? Do you think you’ll just get yourselves a free pass for everything? Well, you won’t, because the industry just won’t be able to cope with that. Companies make games because they can make profit from it. If you prevent them from making profit from it, they won’t just start handling everything over for free, they’ll just stop making games. That’s not because they are evil, that’s just because they won’t be able to accumulate enough capital to keep their business going. That’s simple economics. The only things that are going to survive will be, as I said, dumbed down cheap MMOGs. Until of course add-blocking becomes widespread enough that advertising can no longer generate any profits. But that’s just everybody reaping what the pirates have sown.

BUT WAIT.

THERE NO EVIDENCE OTHER PEOPLE COME TO SERVER, DOWNLOAD AUDIOBOOKS. THERE NO EVIDENCE HE COMMIT CRIME. THERE NO EVIDENCE HE BAD MAN!

YOU BIG LIAR.

YOU MAKE UP STORY. YOU SAY MAYBE HE CHARGE PEOPLE TO DOWNLOAD AUDIOBOOKS. MAYBE HE PROFIT! BUT NO EVIDENCE. YOU TALK BULLSHIT. YOU TRY TO JUSTIFY INVASION OF PRIVACY. YOU SAY ISP WRONG FOR OPPOSING WITCH-HUNT.

YOU BAD MAN.”

LOL!!! 9000 Internets for you!!!

Look lets keep it simple, stop talking about profit losses. THERE ARE NO LOSSES NONE.

Im sick of you guys using this as a scape goat.

Show me ONE corporation that has went out of business because people were pirating material.(I don’t want hear about profit losses because people decided to pirate something instead of buying it, for all you know they would of never bought it in the first place)

What I mean is a company That has shown profit losses year after year because of the increased use of P2P software.

The fact of the matter is you can’t find a company that has any TRUE losses because there hasn’t been any, in fact there have been yearly INCREASES in the music, movie and gaming industry. AND WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION!

Look all these corporations and companies who are involved with trying to stop sharing, are the ones who are going to end up going out of business because you are just making us go to more advanced methods like encryption and if you really want to destroy yourselves thats fine, but digital technology is rapidly changing and there is millions of people who support this technology and will adapt it to suit them better. So either these companies better start adapting or prepare to be destroyed.

You know, when I was a kid I always remember music being about fight the man, or fight corporations and it seems the very people who distrubuted and help create this music are the very same people we should be fighting!

Dude seriously, GTFO.. YOU are what everyone here is working to destroy.

Nobody is listening, nobody cares, please stfu.

@113 Jul 16, 2009 at 23:45 by BioShockerT81:

The only reason art blossomed during that period was because of the patronage of the newly formed rich tradesmen. In other words, because they injected MONEY into the art business.

Yep greed it is a strong motivator but so is vanity and revenge. Those are very powerful feelings.

But piracy didn’t take away money, in any graphic that you plot you don’t see fantastic sharp declines from sales what you see is that when piracy climbs so do too the sales is that not odd? Why does sales go up when piracy go up?

I agree with you that we will eventually see the gaming industry change. However I disagree that it will be worse. After all, how can any industry be bad if the only people still left in it are those motivated by passion rather than greed? Right now we see many developers repeatedly foisting crap on consumers in an effort to make a quick buck. Movies turned into video games (and vice versa) are a perfect example of this. Sorry but I’m not at all bothered by the possibility of greedy (not to mention arrogant) businesses like this going under, especially those that refuse to adapt to a clearly changing business climate. Consumers and pirates are one and the same. They are merely reminding companies who it is that has the real power, which is as it should be.

BioShockerT81 said: “So you ARE doing harm, regardless of whether you profited from it or not, regardless whether you are doing it in good faith or not. Make no mistakes about that.”

Sorry, but there is no conclusive evidence that piracy is harming any aspect of the entertainment industry, whether it be movies, music or video games. What we have seen is record profits each year. Remember, piracy has been around a lot longer than the internet. Hollywood truly believed that the VCR would put them out of business for example. Publishers were sure the photocopier would do the same to them. I ask you, if piracy really is the boogeyman you and the industry want us to believe it is, then why is that same industry still around? Going by their own estimations and predictions, the entire entertainment industry should have gone bankrupt a very long time ago. Yet we do not see any concrete evidence of this at all and they are, in fact, doing quite well. What we do see is a whole lot of FUD and propaganda. File sharing is a scapegoat so that a corrupt industry can get draconian laws passed. It is all about power and control, nothing else.