Comments on: The Pirate’s Dilemma http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/ Torrent News, Torrent Sites and the latest Scoops Sat, 26 May 2012 06:18:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: A Surprisingly Good Read That’s Youth Positive: The Pirate’s Dilemma by Matt Mason « “Under The Age” http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-515853 A Surprisingly Good Read That’s Youth Positive: The Pirate’s Dilemma by Matt Mason « “Under The Age” Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:10:30 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-515853 [...] me this book for my last birthday, and they did. I originally found out about it reading through TorrentFreak, but I don’t know what I really expected of this book–besides an interesting [...] [...] me this book for my last birthday, and they did. I originally found out about it reading through TorrentFreak, but I don’t know what I really expected of this book–besides an interesting [...]

]]> By: Piracy’s Invisible Hand « Confederator http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-512144 Piracy’s Invisible Hand « Confederator Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:31:33 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-512144 [...] the rest of the article is here… [...] [...] the rest of the article is here… [...]

]]> By: Del dilema de la piratería a su beneficio en la innovación http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-475906 Del dilema de la piratería a su beneficio en la innovación Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:55:48 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-475906 [...] | The Economist Más información | Torrent Freak En El Blog Salmón | Los modelos de música en Internet y el caso Avril Lavigne trackback [...] [...] | The Economist Más información | Torrent Freak En El Blog Salmón | Los modelos de música en Internet y el caso Avril Lavigne trackback [...]

]]> By: music http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-361811 music Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:49:20 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-361811 <strong>music...</strong> There was a time I get it, so I couldn't say it's too bad. It's pretty nice.... music…

There was a time I get it, so I couldn’t say it’s too bad. It’s pretty nice….

]]> By: pirate books http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-358060 pirate books Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:35:10 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-358060 [...] Matt Mason, author of the book ???The Pirate??s Dilemma: How Youth Culture Is Reinventing Capitalismhttp://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/Book results for pirate booksThe Pirates of Malabar [...] [...] Matt Mason, author of the book ???The Pirate??s Dilemma: How Youth Culture Is Reinventing Capitalismhttp://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/Book results for pirate booksThe Pirates of Malabar [...]

]]> By: fandango http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-328051 fandango Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:53:23 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-328051 I agree with the author, we pay way to much for everything, all media types and whatever else. A general product will cost a fraction of what we buy it for, the shop you buy it from usually doubles the price they get it for, im sure we all know this already, Im a product design graduate and know the risk of loosing out due to piracy, theft, etc although all of my thousands of pounds worth of software i use i have downloaded and paid nothing for of which im glad to have been able to as otherwise i wouldn't have been able to get to where i am now. Media aside today i went into an abandoned restaurant left to ruin since 2005. In a bad state and getting wore as the years pass due to the general public going in where possible for whatever reason, parts of the building were burnt, smashed, etc. On the 3rd floor i come across furniture from ikea of all places in a not to bad condition, mould starting to form on bits, F**kit i thought ill have it, why not, the owners of the place clearly left the lot not caring for the outcome of whatever may happen to it, including the listed building. Im not a rich man, in fact ive got bugger all, to tell the truth more or less everything i have is down to theft although not directly from a person, everything i have will not be missed by whoever or what company its in some way linked to, for you out there who disagree all i have to ay is if theyre making it, marketing it, then in my eyes they can afford to loose out as the general public do from day to day in whatever aspect it may be! I agree with the author, we pay way to much for everything, all media types and whatever else. A general product will cost a fraction of what we buy it for, the shop you buy it from usually doubles the price they get it for, im sure we all know this already, Im a product design graduate and know the risk of loosing out due to piracy, theft, etc although all of my thousands of pounds worth of software i use i have downloaded and paid nothing for of which im glad to have been able to as otherwise i wouldn’t have been able to get to where i am now. Media aside today i went into an abandoned restaurant left to ruin since 2005. In a bad state and getting wore as the years pass due to the general public going in where possible for whatever reason, parts of the building were burnt, smashed, etc. On the 3rd floor i come across furniture from ikea of all places in a not to bad condition, mould starting to form on bits, F**kit i thought ill have it, why not, the owners of the place clearly left the lot not caring for the outcome of whatever may happen to it, including the listed building. Im not a rich man, in fact ive got bugger all, to tell the truth more or less everything i have is down to theft although not directly from a person, everything i have will not be missed by whoever or what company its in some way linked to, for you out there who disagree all i have to ay is if theyre making it, marketing it, then in my eyes they can afford to loose out as the general public do from day to day in whatever aspect it may be!

]]> By: Anonymous http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-306515 Anonymous Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:26:52 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-306515 I have posted a thread on Microsoft Forums regarding piracy solutions. Please have a read: http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2971205&SiteID=25 comments/feedbacks welcome I have posted a thread on Microsoft Forums regarding piracy solutions.

Please have a read:
http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2971205&SiteID=25

comments/feedbacks welcome

]]> By: bob http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-303085 bob Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:55:15 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-303085 [quote comment="259238"]weiufhwrigrgher r r r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r rr r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr rr r r r r r r r r rr r r rr r rr r r r r r r r r r r rr r rrrr r r r r r r r r rr rrrrr r r r r rr r r r r r rrr r r r r rr r r r r rr r r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r rr r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r rr r rr r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr rr r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r rr r fergver ev ve eer[/quote] [quote comment="259238"]weiufhwrigrgher

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]]> By: The Pirate's Dilemma « Organic Frog http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-283688 The Pirate's Dilemma « Organic Frog Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:55:32 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-283688 [...] Remixing Our Culture and Changing Our World. As the book hasn't been released yet, I only read a few articles about it. So far it seems to be a very interesting book as it puts in perspectives the evolution of [...] [...] Remixing Our Culture and Changing Our World. As the book hasn’t been released yet, I only read a few articles about it. So far it seems to be a very interesting book as it puts in perspectives the evolution of [...]

]]> By: Trying to Be like Bill Gates » Chef to the stars will have you California dreamin’ http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-270793 Trying to Be like Bill Gates » Chef to the stars will have you California dreamin’ Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:13:57 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-270793 [...] has written up a short article at Torrent Freak that eloquently lays out what he believes this dilemma is really about. It’s a quick and interesting read and there’s much to agree with in there. The points [...] [...] has written up a short article at Torrent Freak that eloquently lays out what he believes this dilemma is really about. It’s a quick and interesting read and there’s much to agree with in there. The points [...]

]]> By: Mr. Chin http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-270778 Mr. Chin Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:29:03 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-270778 nice to see a nice debate & argument for the other side of the fence! nice to see a nice debate & argument for the other side of the fence!

]]> By: O Dilema do Pirata | Remixtures http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-268727 O Dilema do Pirata | Remixtures Mon, 21 Jan 2008 07:30:03 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-268727 [...] texto que se segue é uma tradução do artigo "The Pirate’s Dilemma: The Problem With Information (and how to fix it)" publicado pelo jornalista de músico, antigo locutor de uma rádio pirata londrino e DJ [...] [...] texto que se segue é uma tradução do artigo "The Pirate’s Dilemma: The Problem With Information (and how to fix it)" publicado pelo jornalista de músico, antigo locutor de uma rádio pirata londrino e DJ [...]

]]> By: SOTUN als Blog » Blog Archive » Das Piraten Dilemma http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-268177 SOTUN als Blog » Blog Archive » Das Piraten Dilemma Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:19:51 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-268177 [...] Namensgeber des Buchs - das Piraten Dilemma - motiviert Mason im ersten Artikel wie folgt: Many of us are confused about whether our ideas should count as information, or [...] [...] Namensgeber des Buchs – das Piraten Dilemma – motiviert Mason im ersten Artikel wie folgt: Many of us are confused about whether our ideas should count as information, or [...]

]]> By: PR http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-266735 PR Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:00:34 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-266735 Maybe it is time for some of the manufacturers to go after the studios - like the guitar companies, etc. They can claim that they sold their guitars for personal use. The sound their instrument produced was for the person's enjoyment only and not to be shared with others - so any derivative commercial proceeds will need royalties ;-) Maybe it is time for some of the manufacturers to go after the studios – like the guitar companies, etc. They can claim that they sold their guitars for personal use. The sound their instrument produced was for the person’s enjoyment only and not to be shared with others – so any derivative commercial proceeds will need royalties ;-)

]]> By: Michael Alan Miller » I pee on IP http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-264905 Michael Alan Miller » I pee on IP Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:08:47 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-264905 [...] here’s a little history lesson: Some of America's greatest innovators were thought of as pirates. When Thomas Edison invented [...] [...] here’s a little history lesson: Some of America’s greatest innovators were thought of as pirates. When Thomas Edison invented [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-263571 Anonymous Tue, 15 Jan 2008 05:01:28 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-263571 to SantaBJ You are in part right; because we are small we have the advantage of being able to adjust our release plans without months of meetings, and we can choose to release music that isnt an obvious "hit single". We can focus on offering unique product and maintain personal relationships with the best distributors and stores for the genres we deal in. On the other hand, being small we dont have a marketing department or even a marketing budget to speak of. Marketing for us mostly consists of sending out promo copies, photos and translated text to relevant stores and websites. Oddly enough, even in the age of the Internet, most of these people want a physical copy of the record, rather than MP3 files or a CDR, to review or even reprint the press release. That means we could end up paying for a 10% manufacturing over run just for promo copies which we have to then pay to ship out. Also we dont have the budget or time to maintain our own digital sales infrastructure; we contract with iTunes, Emusic and others for worldwide digital sales as well as with mobile phone carriers music sales departments here in Japan. Those companies actually pay us as opposed to the freeloaders, the russians and mixtape people. Technology isnt the big bad wolf, in many ways it enables us to do business, but our lack of efforts on sales and distribution has nothing to do with us and our artists getting ripped off. If you have some great ideas for helping us with distribution and marketing post back here with contact information and we'll get in touch with you about contract work. It would be a plus if you and can speak, read & write in English, French, German and Japanese (that covers our major sales areas). to SantaBJ

You are in part right; because we are small we have the advantage of being able to adjust our release plans without months of meetings, and we can choose to release music that isnt an obvious “hit single”. We can focus on offering unique product and maintain personal relationships with the best distributors and stores for the genres we deal in.

On the other hand, being small we dont have a marketing department or even a marketing budget to speak of. Marketing for us mostly consists of sending out promo copies, photos and translated text to relevant stores and websites. Oddly enough, even in the age of the Internet, most of these people want a physical copy of the record, rather than MP3 files or a CDR, to review or even reprint the press release. That means we could end up paying for a 10% manufacturing over run just for promo copies which we have to then pay to ship out.

Also we dont have the budget or time to maintain our own digital sales infrastructure; we contract with iTunes, Emusic and others for worldwide digital sales as well as with mobile phone carriers music sales departments here in Japan. Those companies actually pay us as opposed to the freeloaders, the russians and mixtape people.

Technology isnt the big bad wolf, in many ways it enables us to do business, but our lack of efforts on sales and distribution has nothing to do with us and our artists getting ripped off. If you have some great ideas for helping us with distribution and marketing post back here with contact information and we’ll get in touch with you about contract work. It would be a plus if you and can speak, read & write in English, French, German and Japanese (that covers our major sales areas).

]]> By: Innovation by any means necessary - The Largest Minority http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-263563 Innovation by any means necessary - The Largest Minority Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:55:23 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-263563 [...] criminalize so-called pirates out of existence. But perhaps pirates are not their enemy after all. This article over at TorrentFreak offers a very different perspective on piracy through a brief historical [...] [...] criminalize so-called pirates out of existence. But perhaps pirates are not their enemy after all. This article over at TorrentFreak offers a very different perspective on piracy through a brief historical [...]

]]> By: kular http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-262268 kular Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:41:27 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-262268 Interesting that you mention Edison who himself pirated the credit for the invention of the light bulb. Nor did he hold the first patent for it! Interesting that you mention Edison who himself pirated the credit for the invention of the light bulb. Nor did he hold the first patent for it!

]]> By: John http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-262121 John Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:10:28 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-262121 I'm not running up a pirate flag here but I do think that the urge to narrow the use of content we purchase rights too is not rooted in fairness, but rather in greed. For example, the music industry embraced CD technology inthe 80's so they could re-sell everyone their old albums again, of course the CD helped open the door to digial music - so goes unintended consequences. My pirate flag? Right here: http://buyflagshere.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=33 Arrgh! I’m not running up a pirate flag here but I do think that the urge to narrow the use of content we purchase rights too is not rooted in fairness, but rather in greed.

For example, the music industry embraced CD technology inthe 80′s so they could re-sell everyone their old albums again, of course the CD helped open the door to digial music – so goes unintended consequences.

My pirate flag? Right here:
http://buyflagshere.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=33

Arrgh!

]]> By: TheCreator http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-261014 TheCreator Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:50:00 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-261014 The bible is the most pervasive thing, it is written by corrupt men who sought to corrupt the mindsofmany and they have done a splendid job I'm the savior you guysorgals have been looking for since ancient time I'm a virgin, i am aloner, i am in touch with nature, and have done much to help everyone since my birth. I know all, see all, hear all, and a perfectionist. I am never satisfied until perfect. believing is seeing I am here to offer my help to humanity who are on the path to destruction I am the the solution to world peace I will bring world peace through love, co-operation, and understanding of the world we live in. The bible is the most pervasive thing, it is written by corrupt men who sought to corrupt the mindsofmany and they have done a splendid job
I’m the savior you guysorgals have been looking for since ancient time
I’m a virgin, i am aloner, i am in touch with nature, and have done much to help everyone since my birth.
I know all, see all, hear all, and a perfectionist. I am never satisfied until perfect.
believing is seeing
I am here to offer my help to humanity who are on the path to destruction
I am the the solution to world peace
I will bring world peace through love, co-operation, and understanding of the world we live in.

]]> By: The Pirate's Dilemma: The Problem With Information (and How to Fix It) | Matt Mason | Voices | AllThingsD http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-260632 The Pirate's Dilemma: The Problem With Information (and How to Fix It) | Matt Mason | Voices | AllThingsD Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:29:02 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-260632 [...] Read the rest of this post Print Sphere Comment Tagged: Matt Mason, information, Voices, copyright, piracy | permalink [...] [...] Read the rest of this post Print Sphere Comment Tagged: Matt Mason, information, Voices, copyright, piracy | permalink [...]

]]> By: b http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259964 b Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:16:12 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259964 Oh, they could collect so much information. RIAA/MPAA/IFPI themselves wouldn't do it; they or their member companies would hire an anti-piracy group such as MediaDefender, MediaSentry, or BayTSP to do it. However, I don't know if any anti-piracy groups understand the culture well enough to fool most of us. I've been proven wrong before, though. People need to remember that private trackers are more dangerous than public trackers. Better content, better seed:leech ratio, fewer fakes and stronger community may be good reasons to join a private tracker, but security is absolutely not. ...What does this have to do with this article? Oh, they could collect so much information. RIAA/MPAA/IFPI themselves wouldn’t do it; they or their member companies would hire an anti-piracy group such as MediaDefender, MediaSentry, or BayTSP to do it.

However, I don’t know if any anti-piracy groups understand the culture well enough to fool most of us.

I’ve been proven wrong before, though. People need to remember that private trackers are more dangerous than public trackers. Better content, better seed:leech ratio, fewer fakes and stronger community may be good reasons to join a private tracker, but security is absolutely not.

…What does this have to do with this article?

]]> By: pablo http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259953 pablo Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:03:02 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259953 I'm expecting to see RIAA/MPAA/IFPI/whatever to open a private tracker ;-) I’m expecting to see RIAA/MPAA/IFPI/whatever to open a private tracker ;-)

]]> By: hiro81 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259907 hiro81 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:08:14 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259907 [quote comment="259823"]If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a "runaway success?" Sorry, it seems like there's entirely too much equivocation going on here - no one in the so-called "pirate community" is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise.[/quote] My experience has been the oppositive, and I've found that many of the people who share content are quite aware of the moral and ethical dimensions to their actions (and generally seem to be alot more of a self-aware bunch than the average person you meet on the street) and I believe most of them do want to see the content creators earn a fair and equitable living. Certainly there are anarchists and nihilists and teenagers too.. but you'll find those people just about anywhere. Before his recent bit of infamy Ersan was working on (and presumably still is, I can't reach him for comment at the moment) an alternate payment structure for artists who distribute content via p2p. I would post some details or the link to the wiki entry, but my google-fu is tired... [quote comment="259823"]If it's worth downloading, it's worth paying for - even if it's just a little bit.[/quote] Here I must disagree with you again. I do not believe an mp3 has either intrinsic or real worth, and is in no way a true reproduction of the commerical product it promotes. Even a high quality (320k) MP3 displays noticable audible differences when compared with an original lossless recording as played on my stereo. MP3s are the digital equivilent of AM radio. They are NOT a commodity or something anyone should be paying for in my opinion, and as such I don't. One thing I do, however, is put a large percentage of my disposable income into supporting the artists and musicians I love. That means I pay to see them when they come to my town, I buy vinyl, cd, or lossless direct from their personal websites or equitably-fair distributor, and most of all I share my music with others in the hope that they will enjoy it, purchase it, and encourage and support those same artists I love in their lives and future creations. Oh, I also repeatedly post every Metallica album to Usenet, just to ensure everyone never has to give those stupid twats another dime again. You seem like a reasonable and intelligent fellow Brett, so I do hope you get my moments of sarcasm, such as they are.. :P But seriously, most of the music I like, listen to, and purchase is released in relatively small quantities by independant artists and labels, and were it not for the MP3s I download I would have never purchased 90% of the music in my collection. I download all kinds of music and alot of it I listen to once and delete, and I don't think I should have to pay any more than my internet access fee to do so. [quote comment="259823"]Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" - that's pretty heady stuff. I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me "if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?" and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay. I'll go ahead and put this out there - is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do.[/quote] To quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me." Which is to say I don't like -isms, and tend to believe they distort our view of reality through their claims of a total and definitive plan for the ideal society. To me, the ideal society is one in which everyone is free to seek their own pleasure and live in any way they choose so long as it doesn't infringe upon upon the freedom and pleasure of others. You could call it a societal embodiment of the Golden Rule; and I don't mean the one about he who holds the gold making the rules, as is our current state of affairs in the western democracies. As I live in a market capitalist society I am oblidged to participate in certain elements of this exchange if I wish to enjoy the benefits and distractions of the technological society. However this does not preclude me from entertaining my own ideals and political conceptions or living them. In America the taxes of the citizens are directed into corporate coffers and then used by the MAFiAA to sue the citizens who freely share something of no real worth. Those who speak against this corruption of democracy are called pirates and face criminal prosecution, emprisonment, and their life's ruin. 150 years ago in America people faced the same risks in opposing slavery, a corrupt economic device that reduced a fellow human being to a complete tool of industry and stripped them of their essential rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While obviously the essentials of the two experiences are worlds apart, the vigorousness of their defense by those who benefit from the systems is the same. Take a step back, then take another, and think about the history of impediment to free communication in the world. It was only 60 odd years ago the largest countries in the world were at war with one another over the right to control property and the economic exchange of the world. Millions of young men were convinced to fight one another in the name of God and Country. They were convinced the enemy were ungodly, "Dirty Japs" or the like, and this was possible because people were largely afraid and knew little of each other. Where-as today I know that I am not much different from anyone else in the world, and I live in age of amazing communication that promotes the global spread of ideas between cultures and races. The longer this continues the greater our understanding of one another must become, and it will be ever less likely that the people of the planet Earth will war upon one another, will poison and destroy one region of the planet for the bounty and comfort of another, and inch by inch the top-down grip of those who have benefited from all of this strife and inhumanity will lessen and eventual cede. So what does all that have to do with sharing some music? It's a stretch, I know, but for me this is the foreground in the fight for freedom and the rights of man in the digital age, and I intend to do my best to represent and defend the side of freedom and liberty. Glad you enjoyed the Walter Benjamin essay. He totally rocked my perception of film. :D Mods: feel free to nuke my previous comment, I slipped a /quote, but felt what I had to say here was worth reposting so it was actually legible. Excuse the stone-y fingers... :rolleyes: [quote comment="259823"]If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a “runaway success?” Sorry, it seems like there’s entirely too much equivocation going on here – no one in the so-called “pirate community” is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise.[/quote]

My experience has been the oppositive, and I’ve found that many of the people who share content are quite aware of the moral and ethical dimensions to their actions (and generally seem to be alot more of a self-aware bunch than the average person you meet on the street) and I believe most of them do want to see the content creators earn a fair and equitable living. Certainly there are anarchists and nihilists and teenagers too.. but you’ll find those people just about anywhere.

Before his recent bit of infamy Ersan was working on (and presumably still is, I can’t reach him for comment at the moment) an alternate payment structure for artists who distribute content via p2p. I would post some details or the link to the wiki entry, but my google-fu is tired…

[quote comment="259823"]If it’s worth downloading, it’s worth paying for – even if it’s just a little bit.[/quote]

Here I must disagree with you again. I do not believe an mp3 has either intrinsic or real worth, and is in no way a true reproduction of the commerical product it promotes. Even a high quality (320k) MP3 displays noticable audible differences when compared with an original lossless recording as played on my stereo. MP3s are the digital equivilent of AM radio. They are NOT a commodity or something anyone should be paying for in my opinion, and as such I don’t.

One thing I do, however, is put a large percentage of my disposable income into supporting the artists and musicians I love. That means I pay to see them when they come to my town, I buy vinyl, cd, or lossless direct from their personal websites or equitably-fair distributor, and most of all I share my music with others in the hope that they will enjoy it, purchase it, and encourage and support those same artists I love in their lives and future creations. Oh, I also repeatedly post every Metallica album to Usenet, just to ensure everyone never has to give those stupid twats another dime again.

You seem like a reasonable and intelligent fellow Brett, so I do hope you get my moments of sarcasm, such as they are.. :P

But seriously, most of the music I like, listen to, and purchase is released in relatively small quantities by independant artists and labels, and were it not for the MP3s I download I would have never purchased 90% of the music in my collection. I download all kinds of music and alot of it I listen to once and delete, and I don’t think I should have to pay any more than my internet access fee to do so.

[quote comment="259823"]Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction” – that’s pretty heady stuff.

I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me “if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?” and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay.

I’ll go ahead and put this out there – is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do.[/quote]

To quote John Lennon, “I don’t believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me.”

Which is to say I don’t like -isms, and tend to believe they distort our view of reality through their claims of a total and definitive plan for the ideal society. To me, the ideal society is one in which everyone is free to seek their own pleasure and live in any way they choose so long as it doesn’t infringe upon upon the freedom and pleasure of others. You
could call it a societal embodiment of the Golden Rule; and I don’t mean the one about he who holds the gold making the rules, as is our current state of affairs in the western democracies.

As I live in a market capitalist society I am oblidged to participate in certain elements of this exchange if I wish to enjoy the benefits and distractions of the technological society. However this does not preclude me from entertaining my own ideals and political conceptions or living them.

In America the taxes of the citizens are directed into corporate coffers and then used by the MAFiAA to sue the citizens who freely share something of no real worth. Those who speak against this corruption of democracy are called pirates and face criminal prosecution, emprisonment, and their life’s ruin. 150 years ago in America people faced the same risks in opposing slavery, a corrupt economic device that reduced a fellow human being to a complete tool of industry and stripped them of their essential rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While obviously the essentials of the two experiences are worlds apart, the vigorousness of their defense by those who benefit from the systems is the same.

Take a step back, then take another, and think about the history of impediment to free communication in the world. It was only 60 odd years ago the largest countries in the world were at war with one another over the right to control property and the economic exchange of the world. Millions of young men were convinced to fight one another in the name of God and Country. They were convinced the enemy were ungodly, “Dirty Japs” or the like, and this was possible because people were largely afraid and knew little of each other. Where-as today I know that I am not much different from anyone else in the world, and I live in age of amazing communication that promotes the global spread of ideas between cultures and races. The longer this continues the greater our understanding of one another must become, and it will be ever less likely that the people of the planet Earth will war upon one another, will poison and destroy one region of the planet for the bounty and comfort of another, and inch by inch the top-down grip of those who have benefited from all of this strife and inhumanity will lessen and eventual cede.

So what does all that have to do with sharing some music? It’s a stretch, I know, but for me this is the foreground in the fight for freedom and the rights of man in the digital age, and I intend to do my best to represent and defend the side of freedom and liberty.

Glad you enjoyed the Walter Benjamin essay. He totally rocked my perception of film. :D

Mods: feel free to nuke my previous comment, I slipped a /quote, but felt what I had to say here was worth reposting so it was actually legible. Excuse the stone-y fingers… :rolleyes:

]]> By: hiro81 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259903 hiro81 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:04:30 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259903 [quote comment="259823"]If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a "runaway success?" Sorry, it seems like there's entirely too much equivocation going on here - no one in the so-called "pirate community" is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise.[quote] My experience has been the oppositive, and I've found that many of the people who share content are quite aware of the moral and ethical dimensions to their actions (and generally seem to be alot more of a self-aware bunch than the average person you meet on the street) and I believe most of them do want to see the content creators earn a fair and equitable living. Certainly there are anarchists and nihilists and teenagers too.. but you'll find those people just about anywhere. Before his recent bit of infamy Ersan was working on (and presumably still is, I can't reach him for comment at the moment) an alternate payment structure for artists who distribute content via p2p. I would post some details or the link to the wiki entry, but my google-fu is tired... [quote comment="259823"]If it's worth downloading, it's worth paying for - even if it's just a little bit.[/quote] Here I must disagree with you again. I do not believe an mp3 has either intrinsic or real worth, and is in no way a true reproduction of the commerical product it promotes. Even a high quality (320k) MP3 displays noticable audible differences when compared with an original lossless recording as played on my stereo. MP3s are the digital equivilent of AM radio. They are NOT a commodity or something anyone should be paying for in my opinion, and as such I don't. One thing I do, however, is put a large percentage of my disposable income into supporting the artists and musicians I love. That means I pay to see them when they come to my town, I buy vinyl, cd, or lossless direct from their personal websites or equitably-fair distributor, and most of all I share my music with others in the hope that they will enjoy it, purchase it, and encourage and support those same artists I love in their lives and future creations. Oh, I also repeatedly post every Metallica album to Usenet, just to ensure everyone never has to give those stupid twats another dime again. You seem like a reasonable and intelligent fellow Brett, so I do hope you get my moments of sarcasm, such as they are.. :P But seriously, most of the music I like, listen to, and purchase is released in relatively small quantities by independant artists and labels, and were it not for the MP3s I download I would have never purchased 90% of the music in my collection. I download all kinds of music and alot of it I listen to once and delete, and I don't think I should have to pay any more than my internet access fee to do so. [quote comment="259823"]Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" - that's pretty heady stuff. I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me "if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?" and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay. I'll go ahead and put this out there - is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do.[/quote] To quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me." Which is to say I don't like -isms, and tend to believe they distort our view of reality through their claims of a total and definitive plan for the ideal society. To me, the ideal society is one in which everyone is free to seek their own pleasure and live in any way they choose so long as it doesn't infringe upon upon the freedom and pleasure of others. You could call it a societal embodiment of the Golden Rule; and I don't mean the one about he who holds the gold making the rules, as is our current state of affairs in the western democracies. As I live in a market capitalist society I am oblidged to participate in certain elements of this exchange if I wish to enjoy the benefits and distractions of the technological society. However this does not preclude me from entertaining my own ideals and political conceptions or living them. In America the taxes of the citizens are directed into corporate coffers and then used by the MAFiAA to sue the citizens who freely share something of no real worth. Those who speak against this corruption of democracy are called pirates and face criminal prosecution, emprisonment, and their life's ruin. 150 years ago in America people faced the same risks in opposing slavery, a corrupt economic device that reduced a fellow human being to a complete tool of industry and stripped them of their essential rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While obviously the essentials of the two experiences are worlds apart, the vigorousness of their defense by those who benefit from the systems is the same. Take a step back, then take another, and think about the history of impediment to free communication in the world. It was only 60 odd years ago the largest countries in the world were at war with one another over the right to control property and the economic exchange of the world. Millions of young men were convinced to fight one another in the name of God and Country. They were convinced the enemy were ungodly, "Dirty Japs" or the like, and this was possible because people were largely afraid and knew little of each other. Where-as today I know that I am not much different from anyone else in the world, and I live in age of amazing communication that promotes the global spread of ideas between cultures and races. The longer this continues the greater our understanding of one another must become, and it will be ever less likely that the people of the planet Earth will war upon one another, will poison and destroy one region of the planet for the bounty and comfort of another, and inch by inch the top-down grip of those who have benefited from all of this strife and inhumanity will lessen and eventual cede. So what does all that have to do with sharing some music? It's a stretch, I know, but for me this is the foreground in the fight for freedom and the rights of man in the digital age, and I intend to do my best to represent and defend the side of freedom and liberty. Glad you enjoyed the Walter Benjamin essay. He totally rocked my perception of film. :D [quote comment="259823"]If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a “runaway success?” Sorry, it seems like there’s entirely too much equivocation going on here – no one in the so-called “pirate community” is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise.[quote]

My experience has been the oppositive, and I’ve found that many of the people who share content are quite aware of the moral and ethical dimensions to their actions (and generally seem to be alot more of a self-aware bunch than the average person you meet on the street) and I believe most of them do want to see the content creators earn a fair and equitable living. Certainly there are anarchists and nihilists and teenagers too.. but you’ll find those people just about anywhere.

Before his recent bit of infamy Ersan was working on (and presumably still is, I can’t reach him for comment at the moment) an alternate payment structure for artists who distribute content via p2p. I would post some details or the link to the wiki entry, but my google-fu is tired…

[quote comment="259823"]If it’s worth downloading, it’s worth paying for – even if it’s just a little bit.[/quote]

Here I must disagree with you again. I do not believe an mp3 has either intrinsic or real worth, and is in no way a true reproduction of the commerical product it promotes. Even a high quality (320k) MP3 displays noticable audible differences when compared with an original lossless recording as played on my stereo. MP3s are the digital equivilent of AM radio. They are NOT a commodity or something anyone should be paying for in my opinion, and as such I don’t.

One thing I do, however, is put a large percentage of my disposable income into supporting the artists and musicians I love. That means I pay to see them when they come to my town, I buy vinyl, cd, or lossless direct from their personal websites or equitably-fair distributor, and most of all I share my music with others in the hope that they will enjoy it, purchase it, and encourage and support those same artists I love in their lives and future creations. Oh, I also repeatedly post every Metallica album to Usenet, just to ensure everyone never has to give those stupid twats another dime again.

You seem like a reasonable and intelligent fellow Brett, so I do hope you get my moments of sarcasm, such as they are.. :P

But seriously, most of the music I like, listen to, and purchase is released in relatively small quantities by independant artists and labels, and were it not for the MP3s I download I would have never purchased 90% of the music in my collection. I download all kinds of music and alot of it I listen to once and delete, and I don’t think I should have to pay any more than my internet access fee to do so.

[quote comment="259823"]Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction” – that’s pretty heady stuff.

I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me “if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?” and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay.

I’ll go ahead and put this out there – is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do.[/quote]

To quote John Lennon, “I don’t believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me.”

Which is to say I don’t like -isms, and tend to believe they distort our view of reality through their claims of a total and definitive plan for the ideal society. To me, the ideal society is one in which everyone is free to seek their own pleasure and live in any way they choose so long as it doesn’t infringe upon upon the freedom and pleasure of others. You
could call it a societal embodiment of the Golden Rule; and I don’t mean the one about he who holds the gold making the rules, as is our current state of affairs in the western democracies.

As I live in a market capitalist society I am oblidged to participate in certain elements of this exchange if I wish to enjoy the benefits and distractions of the technological society. However this does not preclude me from entertaining my own ideals and political conceptions or living them.

In America the taxes of the citizens are directed into corporate coffers and then used by the MAFiAA to sue the citizens who freely share something of no real worth. Those who speak against this corruption of democracy are called pirates and face criminal prosecution, emprisonment, and their life’s ruin. 150 years ago in America people faced the same risks in opposing slavery, a corrupt economic device that reduced a fellow human being to a complete tool of industry and stripped them of their essential rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. While obviously the essentials of the two experiences are worlds apart, the vigorousness of their defense by those who benefit from the systems is the same.

Take a step back, then take another, and think about the history of impediment to free communication in the world. It was only 60 odd years ago the largest countries in the world were at war with one another over the right to control property and the economic exchange of the world. Millions of young men were convinced to fight one another in the name of God and Country. They were convinced the enemy were ungodly, “Dirty Japs” or the like, and this was possible because people were largely afraid and knew little of each other. Where-as today I know that I am not much different from anyone else in the world, and I live in age of amazing communication that promotes the global spread of ideas between cultures and races. The longer this continues the greater our understanding of one another must become, and it will be ever less likely that the people of the planet Earth will war upon one another, will poison and destroy one region of the planet for the bounty and comfort of another, and inch by inch the top-down grip of those who have benefited from all of this strife and inhumanity will lessen and eventual cede.

So what does all that have to do with sharing some music? It’s a stretch, I know, but for me this is the foreground in the fight for freedom and the rights of man in the digital age, and I intend to do my best to represent and defend the side of freedom and liberty.

Glad you enjoyed the Walter Benjamin essay. He totally rocked my perception of film. :D

]]> By: b http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259881 b Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:07:45 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259881 Brett, First of all, there is a difference between taking an object, which can only be in one place at one time, and copying information, which can be in unlimited places and which billions of people can possess at one time. This is a very very old fallacy caused by conflating the content (music) with the medium (a CD), and you really need to get past it before you can talk about this issue sensibly. You say "If it's worth downloading, it's worth paying for." That's not necessarily true. If a person hasn't listened to Rainbows yet, how does she know if it's worth paying for? (Based on Radiohead's fame and past track record? Maybe, but not everyone was already familiar with them, and good artists' output has been known to devolve into crap before. Based on reviews? Your taste might not agree with the reviewers'. Why beat around the bush... to know for sure, you have to hear it.) Now I think I recall seeing reports from Radiohead themselves saying the "70% didn't pay" statistic was inaccurate, but let's suppose it was true. The quantity demanded of any good increases as the price gets lower, and the quantity demanded for free is very high. This is basic economics. If Radiohead had set a minimum payment, say pay at least $5 to download the album, far fewer people would have downloaded the album (at least FROM THEM, more on this later). So, is that good for Radiohead? I can't see how it is. Even if the lost listeners weren't going to pay anything, they still would have talked about and played the album for their friends, who might pay, and they might have gone on to buy tickets to Radiohead shows. More exposure creates more opportunities for the band to make money. Basically, what I'm saying is this. Suppose for the sake of argument that a million people downloaded the album; 300,000 paid, and 700,000 did not. This means 30% paid. What if, instead, 300,000 paid, and nobody else downloaded the album? That would mean 100% paid. But it wouldn't mean any more money for the band, and it would mean less exposure. Is that better? Not at all, and that's why looking at the percentage and saying, "Clearly, people suck and that was a mistake." is dishonest. As an additional point, if Radiohead had released their album by traditional means, "The Scene" would leak it prior to its release, there would be an MP3 download, and 0% of people would pay (it wouldn't even be possible to). If you read some interviews with Thom Yorke, this kind of leak is exactly what the band wanted to compete with. So this dovetails nicely with Matt Mason's book, which is about competing with pirates. Brett,

First of all, there is a difference between taking an object, which can only be in one place at one time, and copying information, which can be in unlimited places and which billions of people can possess at one time. This is a very very old fallacy caused by conflating the content (music) with the medium (a CD), and you really need to get past it before you can talk about this issue sensibly.

You say “If it’s worth downloading, it’s worth paying for.” That’s not necessarily true. If a person hasn’t listened to Rainbows yet, how does she know if it’s worth paying for?

(Based on Radiohead’s fame and past track record? Maybe, but not everyone was already familiar with them, and good artists’ output has been known to devolve into crap before. Based on reviews? Your taste might not agree with the reviewers’. Why beat around the bush… to know for sure, you have to hear it.)

Now I think I recall seeing reports from Radiohead themselves saying the “70% didn’t pay” statistic was inaccurate, but let’s suppose it was true. The quantity demanded of any good increases as the price gets lower, and the quantity demanded for free is very high. This is basic economics. If Radiohead had set a minimum payment, say pay at least $5 to download the album, far fewer people would have downloaded the album (at least FROM THEM, more on this later).

So, is that good for Radiohead?

I can’t see how it is. Even if the lost listeners weren’t going to pay anything, they still would have talked about and played the album for their friends, who might pay, and they might have gone on to buy tickets to Radiohead shows. More exposure creates more opportunities for the band to make money.

Basically, what I’m saying is this. Suppose for the sake of argument that a million people downloaded the album; 300,000 paid, and 700,000 did not. This means 30% paid. What if, instead, 300,000 paid, and nobody else downloaded the album? That would mean 100% paid. But it wouldn’t mean any more money for the band, and it would mean less exposure. Is that better?

Not at all, and that’s why looking at the percentage and saying, “Clearly, people suck and that was a mistake.” is dishonest.

As an additional point, if Radiohead had released their album by traditional means, “The Scene” would leak it prior to its release, there would be an MP3 download, and 0% of people would pay (it wouldn’t even be possible to). If you read some interviews with Thom Yorke, this kind of leak is exactly what the band wanted to compete with. So this dovetails nicely with Matt Mason’s book, which is about competing with pirates.

]]> By: Anom http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259844 Anom Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:56:44 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259844 Wow I liked that. I might buy your book. Actually nahh, I'll just download it! Wow I liked that. I might buy your book. Actually nahh, I’ll just download it!

]]> By: Brett http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259823 Brett Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:02:35 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259823 Hey b - If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a "runaway success?" Sorry, it seems like there's entirely too much equivocation going on here - no one in the so-called "pirate community" is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise. You just b****h-slapped "Anonymous," who's trying to make an honest living with a small label, maybe get some artists heard and put some food on the table at the same time, and all you can think of is your own misguided sense of entitlement - not the fact that the artists whose works you're downloading won't see a nickel from you. If it's worth downloading, it's worth paying for - even if it's just a little bit. Give people their due. But every time someone brings up that argument, all I hear is "the music isn't that great, the movies aren't that great..." Doesn't that smack of self-justification? Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" - that's pretty heady stuff. I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me "if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?" and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay. I'll go ahead and put this out there - is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do. Hey b -

If I ran a store, and 70% of my customers walked off with my inventory, would that be a “runaway success?” Sorry, it seems like there’s entirely too much equivocation going on here – no one in the so-called “pirate community” is willing to face the ethical questions that their actions raise. You just b****h-slapped “Anonymous,” who’s trying to make an honest living with a small label, maybe get some artists heard and put some food on the table at the same time, and all you can think of is your own misguided sense of entitlement – not the fact that the artists whose works you’re downloading won’t see a nickel from you.

If it’s worth downloading, it’s worth paying for – even if it’s just a little bit. Give people their due. But every time someone brings up that argument, all I hear is “the music isn’t that great, the movies aren’t that great…” Doesn’t that smack of self-justification?

Hiro, thank you for pointing me toward the Walter Benjamin essay The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction” – that’s pretty heady stuff.

I must admit, I find it strange for you to ask me “if you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation?” and then turn around and point me toward a Marxist essay.

I’ll go ahead and put this out there – is this about free-market, or Marxist philosophies? Because if you can reconcile them both together in your own head, you have a much greater capacity for paradox than I do.

]]> By: SantaBJ http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259755 SantaBJ Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:26:38 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259755 To the record-label "Anonymous" guy: Boohoo. Being small gives you a bloody advantage, and by not using that advantage you're not exactly making it easy for us to feel sympathy for you when your work gets "pirated". Distribution and marketing on the net is not hard - and the ONLY reason your work is getting higher download numbers from the pirate sites than from the public ones, is because they offer better deals than you do. Not just in terms of economic costs - but in terms of practicalities, like method of distribution and ease of use. Stop thinking of new technology as the big bad wolf, and try instead to embrace it as the new and exciting market place that it really is. A good business model will never lose to piracy. To the record-label “Anonymous” guy:

Boohoo.

Being small gives you a bloody advantage, and by not using that advantage you’re not exactly making it easy for us to feel sympathy for you when your work gets “pirated”.

Distribution and marketing on the net is not hard – and the ONLY reason your work is getting higher download numbers from the pirate sites than from the public ones, is because they offer better deals than you do. Not just in terms of economic costs – but in terms of practicalities, like method of distribution and ease of use. Stop thinking of new technology as the big bad wolf, and try instead to embrace it as the new and exciting market place that it really is. A good business model will never lose to piracy.

]]> By: hmmm http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259751 hmmm Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:13:43 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259751 [quote comment="259250"][quote comment="259207"]Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the "dilemma". You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution.[/quote] I don't think there is one catch-all solution. Radiohead certainly found one that worked for them, despite 70% of people not paying, there was still a pot of gold at the end of In Rainbows for them, and perhaps the 70 wouldn't have bought In Rainbows ever, at any price. But that won't work for everyone trying to make a living from creative work. If you sell $2,000 women's shoes, there probably isn't much value in competing with $25 counterfeit copies, those buying them probably aren't your target market, the copies are not adding value to the originals(unless you create a bridge line making lower quality versions think Emporio Armani vs Giorgio Armani, but that could damage your flagship brand), so throwing lawsuits at pirates would be advisable. I think of the solution in terms of game theory because this is a decision people need to make based on how they think others, customers and competitors, will react. If you can see other revenue streams that will grow because you share something, it's a good idea. If you can't, hire a lawyer. In terms of the entertainment industry, I think the answer will be some new royalty-based system that covers all content online, that's maybe an extra $5 or $10 or $20 a month on a cable bill, divided up among content providers through a mechanism like ASCAP. I would point out that I don't think this will happen anytime soon, because it's not in the interests of the powers that be and would require such a monumental shift in so many industries. But it's not impossible. This is basically what happened with cable TV - for years the networks weren't getting any money from it. I don't hear people complaining too much about having to pay for cable or on demand anymore. The problem is these days everyone can be the network, and the cable provider. We shall see...[/quote] Thank you for your response. I am really enjoying this conversation. You mention Radiohead's "pay what you want" system as if it worked. I have never seen any numbers that said it did or didn't. Maybe they have posted the results and I just missed it somewhere? Numbers I have seen are posted at http://ninblogs.wordpress.com/. Saul William's cd was also released as "pay what you want" and here are the numbers: As of 1/2/08, 154,449 people chose to download Saul's new record. 28,322 of those people chose to pay $5 for it, meaning: 18.3% chose to pay. Of those paying, 3220 chose 192kbps MP3 19,764 chose 320kbps MP3 5338 chose FLAC He also mentions that this record was really only marketed through NIN and Saul William's fan base. Meaning these people were probably already of fan of there music. [quote comment="259250"][quote comment="259207"]Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the “dilemma”. You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution.[/quote]

I don’t think there is one catch-all solution. Radiohead certainly found one that worked for them, despite 70% of people not paying, there was still a pot of gold at the end of In Rainbows for them, and perhaps the 70 wouldn’t have bought In Rainbows ever, at any price.

But that won’t work for everyone trying to make a living from creative work. If you sell $2,000 women’s shoes, there probably isn’t much value in competing with $25 counterfeit copies, those buying them probably aren’t your target market, the copies are not adding value to the originals(unless you create a bridge line making lower quality versions think Emporio Armani vs Giorgio Armani, but that could damage your flagship brand), so throwing lawsuits at pirates would be advisable.

I think of the solution in terms of game theory because this is a decision people need to make based on how they think others, customers and competitors, will react. If you can see other revenue streams that will grow because you share something, it’s a good idea. If you can’t, hire a lawyer.

In terms of the entertainment industry, I think the answer will be some new royalty-based system that covers all content online, that’s maybe an extra $5 or $10 or $20 a month on a cable bill, divided up among content providers through a mechanism like ASCAP. I would point out that I don’t think this will happen anytime soon, because it’s not in the interests of the powers that be and would require such a monumental shift in so many industries. But it’s not impossible. This is basically what happened with cable TV – for years the networks weren’t getting any money from it. I don’t hear people complaining too much about having to pay for cable or on demand anymore. The problem is these days everyone can be the network, and the cable provider.

We shall see…[/quote]

Thank you for your response. I am really enjoying this conversation. You mention Radiohead’s “pay what you want” system as if it worked. I have never seen any numbers that said it did or didn’t. Maybe they have posted the results and I just missed it somewhere? Numbers I have seen are posted at http://ninblogs.wordpress.com/. Saul William’s cd was also released as “pay what you want” and here are the numbers:

As of 1/2/08,
154,449 people chose to download Saul’s new record.
28,322 of those people chose to pay $5 for it, meaning:
18.3% chose to pay.

Of those paying,

3220 chose 192kbps MP3
19,764 chose 320kbps MP3
5338 chose FLAC

He also mentions that this record was really only marketed through NIN and Saul William’s fan base. Meaning these people were probably already of fan of there music.

]]> By: The Pirates dilemma - TechEnclave http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259671 The Pirates dilemma - TechEnclave Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:54:46 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259671 [...] Because in these cases, what pirates are actually doing is highlighting a better way for us to do things; they find gaps outside the market – and better ways for society to operate. In these situations the only way to fight piracy is legitimize and legalize new innovations by competing with pirates in the marketplace. Once the new market space is legitimized, more opportunities are created for everyone. This is how cable TV started, it’s why many drugs are now sold at prices people in the third world can afford, it’s how many other new opportunities are being created today. And then you also get to know that the man instrumental behind Hollywood, one with Fox as his surname, was a pirate and thief The Pirate's Dilemma | TorrentFreak [...] [...] Because in these cases, what pirates are actually doing is highlighting a better way for us to do things; they find gaps outside the market – and better ways for society to operate. In these situations the only way to fight piracy is legitimize and legalize new innovations by competing with pirates in the marketplace. Once the new market space is legitimized, more opportunities are created for everyone. This is how cable TV started, it’s why many drugs are now sold at prices people in the third world can afford, it’s how many other new opportunities are being created today. And then you also get to know that the man instrumental behind Hollywood, one with Fox as his surname, was a pirate and thief The Pirate’s Dilemma | TorrentFreak [...]

]]> By: tr0nd!sc http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259613 tr0nd!sc Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:40:59 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259613 Art(s) & culture(s) know no global boundaries. Corporate intervention is extremely dangerous since: a) People learn about other 'foreigners' through art & entertainment first. Padlocking data produces ignorance. It's the equivalent of going to the local [free] library and not being to checkout or make copies of any material(s)! b) consumers choose how/when/where to process content and placing MPAA/RIAA figureheads to filter the handling of bits or bytes compromises future technological innovation(s). c) P2P helps the circulation of open communication with the rest of the world. If you are lucky enough, you might even be able to travel the world for weeks staying overnight for free with meaningful international penpals. This experience is priceless especially when opening your mind to the unknown(s). ______________________________ Here's to hoisting a glass when all artists/directors/producers/etc. represent ONLY themselves by standing over the mp**/ri** corpses. Art(s) & culture(s) know no global boundaries. Corporate intervention is extremely dangerous since:

a) People learn about other ‘foreigners’ through art & entertainment first. Padlocking data produces ignorance. It’s the equivalent of going to the local [free] library and not being to checkout or make copies of any material(s)!

b) consumers choose how/when/where to process content and placing MPAA/RIAA figureheads to filter the handling of bits or bytes compromises future technological innovation(s).

c) P2P helps the circulation of open communication with the rest of the world. If you are lucky enough, you might even be able to travel the world for weeks staying overnight for free with meaningful international penpals. This experience is priceless especially when opening your mind to the unknown(s).
______________________________

Here’s to hoisting a glass when all artists/directors/producers/etc. represent ONLY themselves by standing over the mp**/ri** corpses.

]]> By: Faisal Riaz http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259606 Faisal Riaz Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:31:10 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259606 Great thoughts... in fact thought provoking thoughts... Are patents really a big problem for companies. Big companies and swallowing mid sized and little ones like a sharks. Is it ethical? Everything has become fair to earn more and more. Great thoughts… in fact thought provoking thoughts… Are patents really a big problem for companies. Big companies and swallowing mid sized and little ones like a sharks. Is it ethical? Everything has become fair to earn more and more.

]]> By: oytun.co.uk » Blog Archive » The 1ππ0/@Ŧ10Ï€ Crisis http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259561 oytun.co.uk » Blog Archive » The 1ππ0/@Ŧ10Ï€ Crisis Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:04:26 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259561 [...] tracks, and continuing to price products way over their costs is definitely not the way to go. As this article about the Pirate’s Dilemma points out, piracy in the end is forcing these industries to become [...] [...] tracks, and continuing to price products way over their costs is definitely not the way to go. As this article about the Pirate’s Dilemma points out, piracy in the end is forcing these industries to become [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259559 Anonymous Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:02:04 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259559 I'm part of running an indie record label. As well as being a producer, recording & mixing engineer and occaisional musician, I also fund or help fund alot of our releases. That means when we want some "name" singer on one of our records, its usually someting out of my pocket. We sell vinyl records and digital downloads, but our stuff always ends up on the russian mp3 sale sites and torrent sites, often before we get our product into full distribution. If the numbers those sites report are true, we'd be selling tens of thousands of copies. Our tracks also end up on alot of DJ mix CDs. I see kids buying em just down the street from our studio. The truth is we've never manufactured more than 1,000 units of any release, usually only 500 and dont have distributors lining up for re-orders. The russians sure arent going to pay us any more than the downloaders or the mixtape guys. Most of the time we break even or dont loose much. When we get lucky with a release we make enough to cover maintenance on our studio gear. I'm posting this as "Anonymous" because What label we run or what songs weve done isnt the point. Theres lots of small labels out there just like ours. For all the kids thinking they are getting over on "The Man", try to remember theres still alot of us out there who work full time jobs and still put in the hours to try and bring you something besides corporate pop. Sometimes maybe you could actually buy our tunes instead of downloading them for nothing? Thanks for reading. I’m part of running an indie record label. As well as being a producer, recording & mixing engineer and occaisional musician, I also fund or help fund alot of our releases. That means when we want some “name” singer on one of our records, its usually someting out of my pocket.

We sell vinyl records and digital downloads, but our stuff always ends up on the russian mp3 sale sites and torrent sites, often before we get our product into full distribution. If the numbers those sites report are true, we’d be selling tens of thousands of copies. Our tracks also end up on alot of DJ mix CDs. I see kids buying em just down the street from our studio.

The truth is we’ve never manufactured more than 1,000 units of any release, usually only 500 and dont have distributors lining up for re-orders.

The russians sure arent going to pay us any more than the downloaders or the mixtape guys. Most of the time we break even or dont loose much. When we get lucky with a release we make enough to cover maintenance on our studio gear.

I’m posting this as “Anonymous” because What label we run or what songs weve done isnt the point. Theres lots of small labels out there just like ours. For all the kids thinking they are getting over on “The Man”, try to remember theres still alot of us out there who work full time jobs and still put in the hours to try and bring you something besides corporate pop. Sometimes maybe you could actually buy our tunes instead of downloading them for nothing?

Thanks for reading.

]]> By: Äèëåììà ïèðàòà: êàê êóëüòóðà ìîëîäåæè çàíîâî èçîáðåòàåò êàïèòàëèçì - Ìåæêîíôåññèîíàëüíûé Õðèñòèàíñêèé Ôîðóì http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259546 Äèëåììà ïèðàòà: êàê êóëüòóðà ìîëîäåæè çàíîâî èçîáðåòàåò êàïèòàëèçì - Ìåæêîíôåññèîíàëüíûé Õðèñòèàíñêèé Ôîðóì Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:13:22 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259546 [...] ïèðàòà: êàê êóëüòóðà ìîëîäåæè çàíîâî èçîáðåòàåò êàïèòàëèçì”, íàïèñàòü ñòàòüþ î “äèëåììå ïèðàòà” äëÿ TorrentFreak. Äèëåììà ïèðàòà: ïðîáëåìû ñ èíôîðìàöèåé (è êàê èõ ðåøèòü) Ìàòò Ìýéñîí Ïî àíàëîãèè ñî ñâåòîì, [...] [...] ïèðàòà: êàê êóëüòóðà ìîëîäåæè çàíîâî èçîáðåòàåò êàïèòàëèçì”, íàïèñàòü ñòàòüþ î “äèëåììå ïèðàòà” äëÿ TorrentFreak. Äèëåììà ïèðàòà: ïðîáëåìû ñ èíôîðìàöèåé (è êàê èõ ðåøèòü) Ìàòò Ìýéñîí Ïî àíàëîãèè ñî ñâåòîì, [...]

]]> By: SantaBJ http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259418 SantaBJ Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:32:21 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259418 William Fox, the Godfather of motion picture piracy. Gotta love it :) William Fox, the Godfather of motion picture piracy. Gotta love it :)

]]> By: b http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259407 b Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:09:08 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259407 [quote comment="259187"]So... what say you "honest pirates" to the fact that over 70% of the people who downloaded the latest RadioHead album (when given a choice to pay as much or as little as they wanted) did so for nothing?[/quote] I can't believe this keeps being dragged out as an example of disappointing results / dishonesty / failure. If your song were played on the radio, and 30% of the people who heard it went out and bought the single -- "only" 30% -- would you be let down? Hell no; in fact, that would be PHENOMENAL. Have some perspective. If the 30% paid figure is true, Radiohead's experiment was a runaway success. To Matt Mason: Thanks for posting this and even braving the comments section. Your writing is quite classy by the standards of this very populist website :) I'm disappointed, though, that your book is not available as a free pdf. Given your message, I expected the book would be, and was actually thinking, "Awesome, I'm going to go out and buy this." That enthusiasm dullened when I found out you aren't sharing it with the pirates on the internet. The fact is, I like to make purchases that support people who are pro-sharing. Contrary to that, I dislike buying from people who may smugly feel that they've MADE me pay them; the purchase feels as though I'm saying, "Yes, I agree that the only proper way to read your words is to pay for some paper and ink." But I don't agree with that. Your decision not to share your writing for free has actually cost you my money (at least for now). This counterintuitive decision-making was covered in a TF article a few days ago, if you're interested (http://torrentfreak.com/when-pirates-pay-they-pay-good-080105/). The psychological concept of "reactance" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_%28psychology%29) may be the root cause of why people feel this way, even if they're not consciously activist. I remain hopeful that you'll release a free pdf in the future. It would not only be generous to the internet community; I really think it would increase your sales. If your publisher doesn't like the idea, then rather than a single-file download, maybe you could convince them to let you put the book up on the web in plain HTML (a la http://birdflubook.com); this has the additional benefit that people Googling the relevant issues will come across your book. Give it some thought, Matt. Thanks again for stopping by these parts :) [quote comment="259187"]So… what say you “honest pirates” to the fact that over 70% of the people who downloaded the latest RadioHead album (when given a choice to pay as much or as little as they wanted) did so for nothing?[/quote]
I can’t believe this keeps being dragged out as an example of disappointing results / dishonesty / failure.

If your song were played on the radio, and 30% of the people who heard it went out and bought the single — “only” 30% — would you be let down?

Hell no; in fact, that would be PHENOMENAL.

Have some perspective. If the 30% paid figure is true, Radiohead’s experiment was a runaway success.

To Matt Mason:

Thanks for posting this and even braving the comments section. Your writing is quite classy by the standards of this very populist website :)

I’m disappointed, though, that your book is not available as a free pdf. Given your message, I expected the book would be, and was actually thinking, “Awesome, I’m going to go out and buy this.” That enthusiasm dullened when I found out you aren’t sharing it with the pirates on the internet.

The fact is, I like to make purchases that support people who are pro-sharing. Contrary to that, I dislike buying from people who may smugly feel that they’ve MADE me pay them; the purchase feels as though I’m saying, “Yes, I agree that the only proper way to read your words is to pay for some paper and ink.” But I don’t agree with that. Your decision not to share your writing for free has actually cost you my money (at least for now).

This counterintuitive decision-making was covered in a TF article a few days ago, if you’re interested (http://torrentfreak.com/when-pirates-pay-they-pay-good-080105/). The psychological concept of “reactance” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_%28psychology%29) may be the root cause of why people feel this way, even if they’re not consciously activist.

I remain hopeful that you’ll release a free pdf in the future. It would not only be generous to the internet community; I really think it would increase your sales. If your publisher doesn’t like the idea, then rather than a single-file download, maybe you could convince them to let you put the book up on the web in plain HTML (a la http://birdflubook.com); this has the additional benefit that people Googling the relevant issues will come across your book.

Give it some thought, Matt. Thanks again for stopping by these parts :)

]]> By: Samuel http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259399 Samuel Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:41:47 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259399 The little history background about Hollywood is brilliant! Great article, hope it get into more hands. The little history background about Hollywood is brilliant! Great article, hope it get into more hands.

]]> By: Shopper http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259382 Shopper Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:53:08 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259382 People will always spend what they can afford to pay for what they want or need. That never changes, what changes is the amount they get for their money. Mass distribution is a capital intensive enterprise. Innovation is very upsetting to it. Think of it this way, If you spend a million making a way to manufacture widgets and someone else finds a way to make just as many that are just as good for a thousand you are broke and out of business. In nature you would have starved or been eaten. For us humans it is just a lesson in intelligence, innovation always outdoes resources in the long run. Adaptation will always lead the way in any fight. Look at the automotive and some other unions, NECESSARY! in their day, now just as bloated and ineffective as the industry they at one time helped rein in. (Not referring to the writers strike, those lazy fat cats at the studios just want to be pirates themselves. The writers just want to be paid whether the product is a tape or DVD or download. Arguably the download should be worth more to the writers because there are no other packaging costs associated.) What those unions who went bad did was give high wages to a small group and hence raised prices for the rest of us. In my area unions represented one fifth of the workforce and almost half the wages, many of us had trouble keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table. The studios are doing the same thing with artists in their collusion with the radio stations and big chain music stores which keeps music prices artificially high. I hope they go bust soon and let the artists compete fairly with concerts being where they make most of their money and have album sales as little more than loss leader advertising. People will always spend what they can afford to pay for what they want or need. That never changes, what changes is the amount they get for their money.

Mass distribution is a capital intensive enterprise. Innovation is very upsetting to it.

Think of it this way, If you spend a million making a way to manufacture widgets and someone else finds a way to make just as many that are just as good for a thousand you are broke and out of business.

In nature you would have starved or been eaten. For us humans it is just a lesson in intelligence, innovation always outdoes resources in the long run.

Adaptation will always lead the way in any fight. Look at the automotive and some other unions, NECESSARY! in their day, now just as bloated and ineffective as the industry they at one time helped rein in. (Not referring to the writers strike, those lazy fat cats at the studios just want to be pirates themselves. The writers just want to be paid whether the product is a tape or DVD or download. Arguably the download should be worth more to the writers because there are no other packaging costs associated.)

What those unions who went bad did was give high wages to a small group and hence raised prices for the rest of us. In my area unions represented one fifth of the workforce and almost half the wages, many of us had trouble keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table. The studios are doing the same thing with artists in their collusion with the radio stations and big chain music stores which keeps music prices artificially high.

I hope they go bust soon and let the artists compete fairly with concerts being where they make most of their money and have album sales as little more than loss leader advertising.

]]> By: loonsta http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259355 loonsta Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:10:39 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259355 [quote comment="258560"][quote comment="258545"]this analogy's been used before, but i'm gonna bring it up again. If i buy a newspaper and leave it on the table for the next person to read, that's considered stealing because didn't pay for that newspaper. They have no legal right to posses that newspaper. Do we go to jail because of reading newspapers that people leave behind? No. Ontop of that, it's the same for music. I can buy a CD at the store and use some of the songs from the CD on my website (myspace,blog,etc. etc.). The people who are listening to the music are stealing, hell they didn't pay for the music, why are they allowed to listen to it? Just because they're not downloading it or they don't physically have a copy of it saved on their harddrive doesn't mean they're not stealing. When you go to a store to buy a CD, you have to pay for it. If you take it without paying for it, it's stealing. So why do people that visit websites that have music on them don't go to jail?[/quote] Not buying something does not qualify as theft as nothing of value is taken[/quote] There isn't really much of value in whats released by the film and music industry now days anyway. [quote comment="258560"][quote comment="258545"]this analogy’s been used before, but i’m gonna bring it up again.

If i buy a newspaper and leave it on the table for the next person to read, that’s considered stealing because didn’t pay for that newspaper. They have no legal right to posses that newspaper. Do we go to jail because of reading newspapers that people leave behind? No.

Ontop of that, it’s the same for music. I can buy a CD at the store and use some of the songs from the CD on my website (myspace,blog,etc. etc.). The people who are listening to the music are stealing, hell they didn’t pay for the music, why are they allowed to listen to it? Just because they’re not downloading it or they don’t physically have a copy of it saved on their harddrive doesn’t mean they’re not stealing.

When you go to a store to buy a CD, you have to pay for it. If you take it without paying for it, it’s stealing. So why do people that visit websites that have music on them don’t go to jail?[/quote]

Not buying something does not qualify as theft as nothing of value is taken[/quote]

There isn’t really much of value in whats released by the film and music industry now days anyway.

]]> By: Brett http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259321 Brett Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:15:23 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259321 Hiro, you bring up some interesting points. I will go read that essay, thank you for the recommendation (seriously, thank you). I understand that mp3s and other digital copies have no "real worth" - an mp3 file is an encoded series of ones and zeros. Were I so inclined, I could rearrange those ones and zeros into a pdf file or a jpg representation of Whistler's mother. I get that. The problem as I see it is that there *is* work of real value - original art produced by original artists. As an artist myself (a musician of little real talent ;-) it confounds me how I could possibly make a living at it in a future as you envision (particularly if I don't have the time or inclination to tour or play live). I love the story about Edison in this article - it brings up a wonderful parallel about the current debate. However, the barrier for copying and distributing copies (and copies of copies) has historically never been lower. As far as "In Rainbows," Radiohead stated that they were disappointed with the results (but hey, they had the means to do it so why not?). That being said, I find your statement about the mp3s being of low quality to be a bit intellectually dishonest... Maybe they were of low quality, but even if they had posted the original digital masters my bet is that the stealing rate would have been about the same (if not slightly higher). There's one more aspect about this that's slightly interesting - there *is* a cost associated with downloads (even for "free"). There's the amortized cost of the computer, the cost of the internet connection, electricity, etc. So at the end of the day, when you download a movie or mp3, you are implicitly admitting that it's worth something. What's wrong about that is that the money you pay to your ISP and electrical company just goes to them, not to support the artists who created the work. I'm not expecting a lot of sympathy here ;-), but I appreciate your response. I'm a bit new to this debate, so I'm going to go read the Walter Benjamin essay. Hiro, you bring up some interesting points. I will go read that essay, thank you for the recommendation (seriously, thank you).

I understand that mp3s and other digital copies have no “real worth” – an mp3 file is an encoded series of ones and zeros. Were I so inclined, I could rearrange those ones and zeros into a pdf file or a jpg representation of Whistler’s mother. I get that.

The problem as I see it is that there *is* work of real value – original art produced by original artists. As an artist myself (a musician of little real talent ;-) it confounds me how I could possibly make a living at it in a future as you envision (particularly if I don’t have the time or inclination to tour or play live).

I love the story about Edison in this article – it brings up a wonderful parallel about the current debate. However, the barrier for copying and distributing copies (and copies of copies) has historically never been lower.

As far as “In Rainbows,” Radiohead stated that they were disappointed with the results (but hey, they had the means to do it so why not?).

That being said, I find your statement about the mp3s being of low quality to be a bit intellectually dishonest… Maybe they were of low quality, but even if they had posted the original digital masters my bet is that the stealing rate would have been about the same (if not slightly higher).

There’s one more aspect about this that’s slightly interesting – there *is* a cost associated with downloads (even for “free”). There’s the amortized cost of the computer, the cost of the internet connection, electricity, etc. So at the end of the day, when you download a movie or mp3, you are implicitly admitting that it’s worth something. What’s wrong about that is that the money you pay to your ISP and electrical company just goes to them, not to support the artists who created the work.

I’m not expecting a lot of sympathy here ;-), but I appreciate your response. I’m a bit new to this debate, so I’m going to go read the Walter Benjamin essay.

]]> By: Bob D Girl http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259301 Bob D Girl Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:42:14 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259301 I dug all of this, but the paragraph on famous innovators is the hottest thing I've seen today. I would take that paragraph to the prom, by which I mean back seat. Yeahhhh. I dug all of this, but the paragraph on famous innovators is the hottest thing I’ve seen today. I would take that paragraph to the prom, by which I mean back seat. Yeahhhh.

]]> By: hiro81 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259294 hiro81 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:35:03 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259294 [quote comment="259187"]So... what say you "honest pirates" to the fact that over 70% of the people who downloaded the latest RadioHead album (when given a choice to pay as much or as little as they wanted) did so for nothing? Where were all the honest people who feel that...[/quote] They got paid what their customers thought it was worth, and apparently most thought low-quality mp3s were worth very little, but admiring them for the attempt to break out of the traditional marketing trap people threw them a bone (not that they needed it). If you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation? I'll say again, Radiohead gave people the opportunity to pay what they felt a low-quality copy was worth, and they did just that.. and according to you 70% recognized it for what it was, a sales pitch they shouldn't have to pay for. If you disagree with the average person so strongly, by all means give them $200 for those low-quality mp3s and make up for everyone else if it gets you off, but don't try to use your preconcieved attitudes about others to colour my argument. [quote comment="259187"]When every act of art (from blockbuster movie series like LOTR) to the guy busking on the street is reduced to a "tip jar" mentality (pay what you want), it will no longer be possible to make a living at that art (much less do it to an extent as done now).[/quote] That's simply ridiculous. Art as a commodity has always had its value determined by what people were willing to pay for it: it is the very essence of supply and demand capitalism. Your argument also completely fails because mp3s and digital copies are objects of no real worth (look it up). You really should read Walter Benjammin's essay "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction", I think your views on art and property are in for a real shock. I know it certainly did alot to get my head around to the side of true artistic freedom anyways... And I'm not even going to address whatever's slackjawed comments about personal information and digital privace. Clearly a troll not due any further attention... [quote comment="259187"]So… what say you “honest pirates” to the fact that over 70% of the people who downloaded the latest RadioHead album (when given a choice to pay as much or as little as they wanted) did so for nothing? Where were all the honest people who feel that…[/quote]

They got paid what their customers thought it was worth, and apparently most thought low-quality mp3s were worth very little, but admiring them for the attempt to break out of the traditional marketing trap people threw them a bone (not that they needed it).

If you are in favour of market capitalism why are you railing against its essential operation? I’ll say again, Radiohead gave people the opportunity to pay what they felt a low-quality copy was worth, and they did just that.. and according to you 70% recognized it for what it was, a sales pitch they shouldn’t have to pay for. If you disagree with the average person so strongly, by all means give them $200 for those low-quality mp3s and make up for everyone else if it gets you off, but don’t try to use your preconcieved attitudes about others to colour my argument.

[quote comment="259187"]When every act of art (from blockbuster movie series like LOTR) to the guy busking on the street is reduced to a “tip jar” mentality (pay what you want), it will no longer be possible to make a living at that art (much less do it to an extent as done now).[/quote]

That’s simply ridiculous. Art as a commodity has always had its value determined by what people were willing to pay for it: it is the very essence of supply and demand capitalism. Your argument also completely fails because mp3s and digital copies are objects of no real worth (look it up). You really should read Walter Benjammin’s essay “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”, I think your views on art and property are in for a real shock. I know it certainly did alot to get my head around to the side of true artistic freedom anyways…

And I’m not even going to address whatever’s slackjawed comments about personal information and digital privace. Clearly a troll not due any further attention…

]]> By: Matt Mason http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259250 Matt Mason Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:10:18 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259250 [quote comment="259207"]Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the "dilemma". You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution.[/quote] I don't think there is one catch-all solution. Radiohead certainly found one that worked for them, despite 70% of people not paying, there was still a pot of gold at the end of In Rainbows for them, and perhaps the 70 wouldn't have bought In Rainbows ever, at any price. But that won't work for everyone trying to make a living from creative work. If you sell $2,000 women's shoes, there probably isn't much value in competing with $25 counterfeit copies, those buying them probably aren't your target market, the copies are not adding value to the originals(unless you create a bridge line making lower quality versions think Emporio Armani vs Giorgio Armani, but that could damage your flagship brand), so throwing lawsuits at pirates would be advisable. I think of the solution in terms of game theory because this is a decision people need to make based on how they think others, customers and competitors, will react. If you can see other revenue streams that will grow because you share something, it's a good idea. If you can't, hire a lawyer. In terms of the entertainment industry, I think the answer will be some new royalty-based system that covers all content online, that's maybe an extra $5 or $10 or $20 a month on a cable bill, divided up among content providers through a mechanism like ASCAP. I would point out that I don't think this will happen anytime soon, because it's not in the interests of the powers that be and would require such a monumental shift in so many industries. But it's not impossible. This is basically what happened with cable TV - for years the networks weren't getting any money from it. I don't hear people complaining too much about having to pay for cable or on demand anymore. The problem is these days everyone can be the network, and the cable provider. We shall see... [quote comment="259207"]Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the “dilemma”. You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution.[/quote]

I don’t think there is one catch-all solution. Radiohead certainly found one that worked for them, despite 70% of people not paying, there was still a pot of gold at the end of In Rainbows for them, and perhaps the 70 wouldn’t have bought In Rainbows ever, at any price.

But that won’t work for everyone trying to make a living from creative work. If you sell $2,000 women’s shoes, there probably isn’t much value in competing with $25 counterfeit copies, those buying them probably aren’t your target market, the copies are not adding value to the originals(unless you create a bridge line making lower quality versions think Emporio Armani vs Giorgio Armani, but that could damage your flagship brand), so throwing lawsuits at pirates would be advisable.

I think of the solution in terms of game theory because this is a decision people need to make based on how they think others, customers and competitors, will react. If you can see other revenue streams that will grow because you share something, it’s a good idea. If you can’t, hire a lawyer.

In terms of the entertainment industry, I think the answer will be some new royalty-based system that covers all content online, that’s maybe an extra $5 or $10 or $20 a month on a cable bill, divided up among content providers through a mechanism like ASCAP. I would point out that I don’t think this will happen anytime soon, because it’s not in the interests of the powers that be and would require such a monumental shift in so many industries. But it’s not impossible. This is basically what happened with cable TV – for years the networks weren’t getting any money from it. I don’t hear people complaining too much about having to pay for cable or on demand anymore. The problem is these days everyone can be the network, and the cable provider.

We shall see…

]]> By: i am dave http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259247 i am dave Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:08:41 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259247 [...] Something caught my eye when reading about piracy earlier regarding the concept of Corporations and public interest. If bank figures show the top 150 economies are actually corporations and not nations (economies used to mean a system involving many different markets), what would happen if these corporations focused on one end, and one market instead of a massive blanket effect? [...] [...] Something caught my eye when reading about piracy earlier regarding the concept of Corporations and public interest. If bank figures show the top 150 economies are actually corporations and not nations (economies used to mean a system involving many different markets), what would happen if these corporations focused on one end, and one market instead of a massive blanket effect? [...]

]]> By: poooooooooooooooooooo http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259239 poooooooooooooooooooo Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:46:39 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259239 frf f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f frf

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]]> By: Post On Fire http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259224 Post On Fire Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:25:30 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259224 Very well written article, the author gave two examples that i really liked a lot. The first one is "copying a CD you bought onto your hard drive is considered an infringement of someone else's rights". and the second is "creating a piece of art and placing it in public yourself without permission can land you in prison". This is really very true but i never thought of it. http://www.postonfire.com Very well written article, the author gave two examples that i really liked a lot. The first one is “copying a CD you bought onto your hard drive is considered an infringement of someone else’s rights”. and the second is “creating a piece of art and placing it in public yourself without permission can land you in prison”. This is really very true but i never thought of it.
http://www.postonfire.com

]]> By: hmmm http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259207 hmmm Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:06:24 +0000 http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirates-dilemma-080108/#comment-259207 Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the "dilemma". You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution. Although I enjoyed the article I think most people realize this is the “dilemma”. You just stated it more eloquent than most. What I would like hear your thoughts on the solution.

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