Top Pirate Reveals Warez Scene Secrets, Attracts MPAA Lawyer’s Attention
Written by enigmax on November 19, 2007Last week, a senior member of the warez scene took part in a rare interview. In it, he reveals some interesting things about this shadowy world but the question is: Did he reveal too much? MPAA pirate-chasing lawyer Espen Tøndel now says that The Scene will be “brought to justice”.
We’ve carried articles in the past about the Scene. So legend goes, these people are ultra-secretive but of course there’s always a few who like to talk, despite being targeted by law enforcement in cases such as Operation Fastlink and Operation Buccaneer.
Last week, an administrator of a Topsite (an important guy, near to the top of the so-called ‘Piracy Pyramid‘) linked to some very famous release groups, broke cover in a very rare interview with Trond Bie of itavisen.no, seemingly giving away quite a few secrets such as the security techniques used by the Scene and the locations of some of their servers. He also explains why the Scene dislikes torrents and sites like The Pirate Bay, and reveals how some torrent sites manage to get Scene releases so quickly.
In the interview, the Site-Op mocks the efforts of Norwegian police in trying to shutdown the Norwegian Scene, joking that Norwegian law prevents them from being caught in the traditional ways. This attitude could’ve been the thing that attracted the eye of Espen Tøndel, the aggressive MPAA/IFPI lawyer who also talked about action against torrent sites recently. RayJoha, a reader of TorrentFreak who did a lot of work on this article, contacted Tøndel and asked him a few questions which you can read at the bottom of this article.
The Interview (translation from Norwegian, courtesy RayJoha)
The guy we talked to is one of the few administrators of a Topsite in Norway. He’s in his mid twenties, is a student of programming and has been a part of the Scene for many years. He first became a Topsite Site-Op in 2003 and has since been responsible for adding users, banning ruleset violators and programming automating IRC-scripts.
In addition to being a Site-Op he also has his own home-based server where he downloads movies, games and TV-shows to and from the Topsites. He has a very fast Internet connection which make it possible to download a DVD movie in minutes.
Everybody keeps everybody informed
In addition to categories such as games, software, music and movies we have a news category on the Topsites warning against raids. Lamers are also posted in this news category. It’s also possible to find out who leaks warez to trackers and the P2P community. Those who leak will be banned from the Scene. It is very easy for the police to find those people who are spreading torrents.
One of the reasons it is quite difficult to break the Scene is due to a very sophisticated security system. The system we use on Topsites and IRC is SSL. This comes on top of Blowfish-aggregation on IRC. You have to log in to one of the Topsites to get the Blowkey password. Without Blowkey everything will be encrypted. The Topsites encrypt everything with SSL.
It’s not unusual to have 30 TerraBytes of warez on a Topsite. Last summer German police raided a Topsite which had 40 members. The following was posted on Topsites news sections to warn the entire Scene, (from German):
New police action in Germany. This morning 40 members got a visit from the BKA, (Bundes Kriminal Amt). All user accounts etc…. Everybody that has visited the site is in great danger!
I miss you
Laws must change?
Changing the laws will have no effect. The MP3 legislation… the only thing they do is make it difficult for ordinary downloaders/torrent users - those who download from a website, torrentsite, Limewire or with any other P2P software. It would be easier for the government if the police could create their own ‘entrapment servers’, but they could only hurt the Scene, not destroy it.
What’s the probability of getting caught?
HaHa, there’s almost no chance of getting caught in Norway. The Norwegian police cannot do anything illegal to get somebody. By law, they cannot set up servers to entice users to join. All the users in the network know each other. Members of the Scene have joined only through someone vouching for them. I do it because it’s a learning experience and fun. I learn a lot about running servers, programming, (C, C ++, Java and scripting). I started with this before I realized I could have a career in programming. When you learn a few programming languages it’s quite easy to pick up new ones.
His interest in file sharing has been there for years, but it took some time before he became a Topsite Site-Op. He reveals that there are lot of Norwegian ISPs, especially those that deliver fiber connections, that have Topsite servers as customers.
The first time I became a Site-Op it was 2003. I started setting up servers on my own, but at that time we had no affiliation with the Scene. There are lots of sites on Lyse, Hafslund and Sandefjord and I also know that servers are found around university campuses.
The Site-Op tells us that he has no plans of quitting piracy, even when he gets a real job in the software business.
It’s real hard to catch pirates, i’ve learned. I get to understand how it works, making it possible to protect myself against it. Anything that comes to market is cracked even before we post it. There’s no point for the industry in spending millions on copy protection.
The social side of the Scene
Is there a social environment in the Scene or is it just IRC chatting all the time?
Nobody sees anybody. The IRC OPs knows who the others are, but normally we don’t know who they are in real life. We only use nick names.
The Site-Op feels it’s easy to replace persons that are arrested in raids with some exceptions. Game crackers [people who remove copy protection] can’t easily be replaced. There’s just a few people with their skills around.
It’s correct that you can’t easily replace a cracker, it’s a real genius game. Sometimes we might lose everyone, but they’re real hard to catch. Let’s say they manage to cripple the Game-Scene, but they still have to deal with movies and music, and thats something Mr. anybody can do. [Rip movies and music]
The FBI are allowed to set up fake servers, but they are not successful in their endeavors. If the Norwegian police are going to catch anyone they have to adopt the same strategy. You can’t take down Topsites without resorting to illegality: they’d have to distribute copyrighted material. Actually doing something illegal. note: strictly prohibited in Norway
Site-Op’s responsibilities
I don’t know any informants, but there is a strong possibility there are some. If the Scene discovers this the individual will be banned with the help of Topsite news and barred from access to any resource within the Scene.
As a Site-Op he has a series of tasks perform in order for the site to work properly.
A Site-Op adds users and makes sure the ruleset are obeyed. He’s programming and scripting. Linux servers are almost always running glftpd.
Pre-Information
The Site-Op is one of a selected few who has pre-information. Pre-information is information about a specific warez that haven’t been shared with anyone yet. The different groups, (Razor1911, Fairlight etc), have their own folders on the Topsites with not yet released content. The competition is fierce when it comes to being the first to release a movie or a game.
When a “ware” is pre-released a so-called Race starts. A Race means that every Topsite tries to be the first to distribute. In this way the Scene is almost like an economy in itself. First to market doesn’t mean monetary survival but rather the gain of Respect.
There are unbelievably few people that has pre-information. Only Admins can browse all Pre-folders. One shouldn`t sneak a peak on a pre. It’s a rule not to browse on somebody else’s folder.
The Site-Op’s connections with the ‘Big’ people in the Scene
A Site-Op communicates with the real ‘big-wigs’ in the Scene - the ones that really puzzle the game and movie industries. The largest groups use their own IRC servers to communicate, while the Topsites often use Linknet with SSL.
We are in direct contact with Fairlight and the others. We talk to them on IRC. A great proportion of them are Linknet. The largest Topsites have their own servers giving them increased security.
Additionally, the Site-Op reveals that many Sceners post internal information on Wikipedia.
The scene harbours ill feelings towards the torrent community. According to the Scene they are stealing their warez and posting it on trackers. The Scene is of the opinion that it’s real easy to bust people that posts warez on torrent sites like The Pirate Bay.
What happens is that people leak from the Scene to torrent sites just before a release. That indicates that these lamers have access to early sites. And if you are the one of those that does this you are categorized as an Insecure user and therefore banned from the Scene. So, to be clear, this is the only connection we have to the torrent scene.
Dislike of The Pirate Bay
We, as Site-ops, have no fondness for The Pirate Bay. We do not want to talk to the press because it pressures the police to focus on us. As a software programmer I dislike file sharing, because of the small companies that suffers from it. Members of the Scene learn a lot and find it to be a fun experience. The top Sceners buy the music and the movies on DVD anyway.
As an example I have purchased, ( With money ), FlashFXP to support the developers. This is software I use a lot. If you follow this thinking the best thing to do is to get rid of all the file sharers, mainly because it`s so insecure. The police are able to just walk in and identify the sharers. END
Q+A: Espen Tøndel, MPAA/IFPI lawyer
Q: Is there anything in this interview that gives you tips on how to get these guys?
Let me put it this way - we have a considerable amount of information about these sites. We know how they work.
Q :Do you think this article [the original interview] will make it easier to bring the Norwegian Scene to justice, considering that he reveals what kind of software and which ISPs they’re using?
From my point of view the Norwegian Scene will be brought to justice, we possess a lot of information.
Q: Norway has always been at the forefront of technology development. Do you think Hollywood should target Norway first?
Norway is obviously a good place for tech development and we have necessary legislation hence Norway is a good place for pursuing these kind of activities. We have the full backing of the Motion Picture Association in doing that.
Did this guy give away too many secrets or is Tøndel simply bluffing? Time will tell.
Update: Some people are naturally questioning the authenticity of the guy claiming to be a Site-Op. The author of the original article, Trond Bie from Norway’s ITavisen has just confirmed that he conducted this interview at his home and all the time he was watching the Site-Op doing ‘administrative stuff’ on the topsite which he says, couldn’t be mistaken for anything else.
Previously: Mininova Hits The Million Torrent Uploads Mark
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118 Responses
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[quote comment="218212"]As for that lawyer, he’s just a bald pinny… “We have alot of information.” So do I… just from reading your interview I know that 1) you know nothing, never have, never will, you are a n00b of detectiving 2) You don’t even know you’re own laws, thus you must also be a n00b of lawyering and 3) just by how cool you think you are saying stuff like “We possess alot of information.” i can tell you must possess not only no information, but no cock either.
[/quote]
hehe, he is indeed a n00b of lawyering. that lawyer’s answers were the shittiest responses I could have imagined. why agree to do an interview if you aren’t going to answer any of the questions?
want to get the pirates to stop , ANSWER
NUKE THE WORLD it is time the human race comes to a end PERIOD
What i don’t get is if no one leaks the releases to torrent or p2p networks how do we pirates get the releases other wise?
A couple of years ago, some dudes from Razor1911 or Fairlight ( dunno which one of the 2 )
Did a similar media contact.
Basicly, the dude only told them about public knowledge.
So he did not do anything wrong, besides rule # of the scene.
You don’t talk about it !
[quote comment="218076"][quote comment="218069"]The warez scene is hierarchical and outdated. About best thing that could be said about it is that it has a minor MySpace effect to it, i.e. it keeps the kiddies who’re into power games and reputation drama in their own sandboxes.[/quote]
…says the guy who probably is a p2p-lamer himself…[/quote]
says the boy that is too retarded to accept that not everyone uses linux and tht cant even use a crack because he is too retarded to use windows
//offtopic
aniway, the guy tells nothing but standard info tht you can know if you digdug around a bitsi heh.
aniway , nice article :))
and yeah , i mite be a p2p lamer , and so does this site according to knoeki, (who is a big p2pfagwannabescener that is only trying to scam you with his gayass shit), tough what the article does’nt states is the stealing from scenegroups thmselves (I.E. CAMERA CANALSTREET , etc. ) those retards like knoeki that cant get their own source and thn just nick it off from p2p networks to blatantly rar it and thn pre it using their own groupname.
(and yeah knoeki , dont say i am l;ieiing like you did last time, cuz i DO have proof of what i did , something you still have not.
Only adds more fuel to the fire, that these guys are nothing but lame ass programmers that think they are higher and mightier than everyone else. This guy is gonna get caught, not today, maybe not tomorrow, but he will get caught. And when he does, Extradition might be appropriate, cause the MPAA moves oceans when it legally can. So wash [quote comment="218413"][quote comment="218212"]As for that lawyer, he’s just a bald pinny… “We have alot of information.” So do I… just from reading your interview I know that 1) you know nothing, never have, never will, you are a n00b of detectiving 2) You don’t even know you’re own laws, thus you must also be a n00b of lawyering and 3) just by how cool you think you are saying stuff like “We possess alot of information.” i can tell you must possess not only no information, but no cock either.
[/quote]
hehe, he is indeed a n00b of lawyering. that lawyer’s answers were the shittiest responses I could have imagined. why agree to do an interview if you aren’t going to answer any of the questions?[/quote]
your asshole buddy, with soap and water, cause you’re safe in Norway, but when the Black man comes a knocking it won’t be in a European prison.
Bullshit that lawyer is a lamer he only know how use hotmail…Dumbass
@36
only a n00b says n00b
…fucking n00b
bongwizard ftw!
what’s p2p please i dont know what it means? my man
MPAA will try to catch pirates forever.. this will never end… LOL
MPAA is FUCKED :)
“yawn, i already knew all of that.”
well duh, what is he supposed to talk about, like the article says, they can’t give out too much info…
[quote comment="218475"]Only adds more fuel to the fire, that these guys are nothing but lame ass programmers that think they are higher and mightier than everyone else. This guy is gonna get caught, not today, maybe not tomorrow, but he will get caught. And when he does, Extradition might be appropriate, cause the MPAA moves oceans when it legally can. So wash [quote comment="218413"][quote comment="218212"]As for that lawyer, he’s just a bald pinny… “We have alot of information.” So do I… just from reading your interview I know that 1) you know nothing, never have, never will, you are a n00b of detectiving 2) You don’t even know you’re own laws, thus you must also be a n00b of lawyering and 3) just by how cool you think you are saying stuff like “We possess alot of information.” i can tell you must possess not only no information, but no cock either.
[/quote]
hehe, he is indeed a n00b of lawyering. that lawyer’s answers were the shittiest responses I could have imagined. why agree to do an interview if you aren’t going to answer any of the questions?[/quote]
your asshole buddy, with soap and water, cause you’re safe in Norway, but when the Black man comes a knocking it won’t be in a European prison.[/quote]
Why did you randomly quote me in the middle of your post? It is very difficult to tell if you were ever referring to me or the interviewee.
But to clarify, I was commenting from the perspective of an American law student, not a programmer. I just think that lawyer was acting like a douche.
scene will never die !
LOL! Jolly good article! Have some jellybabies! Cheers!
OK I and many have made these comments n the past but here goes again… and I am NOT promoting Pirated works or Copyright Violations.. Just simple FACTS!
1. These U.S. based groups, RIAA, MPAA and others have NO Legal Standing what so ever outside the U.S.
2. U.S. Copyright Laws are just that.. U.S.
3. The U.S. has bullied other countrys in the past only to have efforts backfire since they have NO SAY outside the U.S.
So why do these goofs continue to “TRY” and bring down something that indeed they have no Legal Jurisdiction over?
lmao… what he gives is old news… infect, the “tactics” he describes are very low security… there are group out there that are way more paranoid than this Topsite
He comes off very arrogant and will more than likely get in shit with his stupidity. Many people in the scene went to p2p because it’s not worth the trouble of running a site, any idiot knows that you’re safer in a bigger crowed
Think of the money you save on servers and bandwidth over a year or 2… you can buy a damn car
*yawn*
This “new information” will help Tøndel…how? He still can’t legally get to the Norwegian Scene. He still can’t legally “put pressure” on Norwegian pirates / p2p’ers. He still can’t legally claim not to be a giant douche.
Also, the scene keeps shooting themselves in their collective feet with that anti-p2p stance of theirs…granted, it is currently keeping them “safe” from the “perils” of the p2p community - but without the public exposure this community brings, and the huge pressure it throws on ISPs to increase bandwidth availability, the Scene would have no chance of becoming legal in ANY way and would probably still be running on > 1mbit ADSL connections…
scene…calls p2p lamers….p2p calls scene lamers…..lmao…..so the scene is nothing more than theives…as are the p2p folks….
So get over it…..Its all stolen….so what the f**k does it matter…. Those that go for the back and forth flameing are all lamers….
[quote comment="218806"]the Scene would have no chance of becoming legal in ANY way and would probably still be running on > 1mbit ADSL connections…[/quote]
Uhm.. Ok, I dunno how much things have changed since I was active (which I was up until 2001), but sceners hardly ever ran anything on ‘normal’ connections.
Sure, the racers would sit at home on their crappy 512kbps pipes and FXP stuff back and forth, but the actual servers - which in my mind _is_ the scene were running on 100mbps minimum (Ok, I remember running a site on a 10mbps pipe back in 94 - but jeez that’s a long time ago).
We had topsites running from within the major ISPs at the time - heck, we even had a server planted at Posten SDS (now ErgoGroup) in Norway.
Anyway, the scene has always had the same attitude towards other ppl. Be it torrents, kazaa, webwares, irc, usenet - and they’re all still there (well, apart from the odd bust now and then).
As a Norwegian, neither I nor anyone I know are really afraid of the Norwegian police. The last big news about our police was that they managed to shoot two of their own people during a practice drill. Says a lot about our police, haha.
without the Scene. . . .what are you going to share. . .morons. . . .
Your crappy dvdRips and TV shows that don’t even *touch* a scene release?
I’m willing to bet that if the Scene was gone — or actually succeeded in keeping it’s stuff internal, 99.999% of you wouldn’t be able to figure out how to crack quality software. . .
Which one of you has *ever* contributed *anything* (besides bandwidth — and maybe the time it took you to make a torrent) to *releasing* **ANYTHING**???
Again I say. . .without the Scene. . . .what are you going to share. . .morons. . . .
[quote comment="219053"]without the Scene. . . .what are you going to share. . .morons. . . .
Your crappy dvdRips and TV shows that don’t even *touch* a scene release?
I’m willing to bet that if the Scene was gone — or actually succeeded in keeping it’s stuff internal, 99.999% of you wouldn’t be able to figure out how to crack quality software. . .
Which one of you has *ever* contributed *anything* (besides bandwidth — and maybe the time it took you to make a torrent) to *releasing* **ANYTHING**???
Again I say. . .without the Scene. . . .what are you going to share. . .morons. . . .[/quote]
True without the scene we would lose a lot of quality, however, we would still be able to get the same things(At least in the video department). When it comes to cracking/keygens, we wouldn’t get anything nearly as fast, if at all. But I do think that if the scene managed to stop everything from being leaked onto torrents/usenet/irc/the rest, a new, albeit not as good, scene would arise from torrentsites.
the Scene is constantly evolving, in a few years they will be releasing to p2p… there are already groups and individuals releasing specifically for p2p… those that don’t like p2p are a bunch of oldschool hippies
p2p is the future, no question about it; it just takes some people longer to realize than others…
A few years ago there were already groups expressing interest and experimenting with closed p2p networks for distribution since it would be more efficient, no idea if they went ahead with implementing anything but they themselves use, or will use the same technology as public p2pers in a closed, encrypted vpn. Once everything is distributed inside it can easily be pushed to public sources in no time. Topsites are oldschool and will soon no longer be needed, they’re just used for quality control and are basically a power trip for stupid kids that run them. (stupid because they’ll eventually get caught, if not now, in the future, they’re just too high on their power trip to realize it)
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