Trading BitTorrent Tracker Invites , Commodity or Curse?
Written by Ben Jones on January 15, 2008In recent months, many private trackers have moved to an invite-based system in an attempt to try and weed out so-called ‘bad peers’. They do this through a chain of trust. Many users, though, are attempting to use invites for their own profit, putting themselves and others into the firing line.
When private torrent sites first started, they were little known, and small. To join, you had to know about the site, and if you were lucky enough to find a slot you could join (most sites were small, with 10,000 members max). Most private sites were (and are) perceived as exclusive communities. Members who do get in often share more, not only because it is required, but also because they want to be a good member of the community.
As time went on, torrents became more popular and the membership of private BitTorrent trackers increased. Part of it was speed , such sites tend to have better ratios of seeds to peers. Other factors are the absence of garbage and the fact that duplicates are kept to a minimum. However, such factors made them also prime targets for the anti-piracy groups. After the joint ICE and FBI raids against the US-based BitTorrent tracker, EliteTorrents, in 2005, even though it became clear that such investigators were members of such sites, invites became popular.
The theory behind invite-sharing is simple: Someone you know, who happens to be a member of a site invites you to join. You are known to them, and it should restrict the ability of people with bad intentions to join. “good members” invite their friends, who become good members, and are likely to be ’safe peers’. In time, these new members would get/earn invites of their own, and they invite people they trust.
The problem is, many of these sites have members that promote their favorite site as ‘the best’, ‘the fastest’, ‘the safest’, or some other praise. Best is subjective, fastest often depends on luck and timing as much as anything else, and I discussed safety almost a year ago. Regardless of the truth of these statements, many sites have a cult following, and demand for invites to private trackers skyrocketed. People started to beg and plead for invites, and to trade them, or even worse, sell them. This is where things get problematic.
The invite system was based on a chain of trust. Yet now, a lot of people trade invites with strangers. They often know nothing about the other except that they’re a member of one site wanting another’s invite, and their email address. The chain of trust is often broken on large trackers, and the entire system is circumvented. Some consider this to be a problem, others believe it doesn’t really matter in most cases, because most people who do get in have to obey the rules anyhow.
There are some negative side effects of the scarcity of invites. Some users have started selling invites on ebay (such as for what.cd or waffles.fm), and trading sites have also popped up, some of which are attempting to profit from invites.
Of course, the final word comes from the admins of the private torrent sites themselves. Every one TorrentFreak spoke to reiterated that if you are found to have sold invites, your account will be deleted, as will the invited account. Still, people will be greedy, and try to profit from their invites. The most important message seems to be, sharing invites is a good thing, but watch out who you’re sharing with.
What do you think?
Previously: MediaDefender Hacker Speaks Out
Next: Director “Won’t think less of you” for Downloading Hit Movie on BitTorrent
77 Responses
Just a comment, when you say “There are some negative side effects of the scarcity of invites. Some people have started selling invites on ebay (such as for what.cd or waffles.fm)” it sounds like you are insinuating that the staff of what and waffles are selling the invites, not the users. Which is not the case, so that should be cleared up before the IFPI think they can get another site down….
2
Hate invite people who I think I can trust and then they cheat. Ban all cheaters!
In all fairness, when you give someone access to something super-exclusive and they’ve never had that before it’s to be expected that they’d abuse it.
http://paidandpopular.com
[quote comment="264073"]Just a comment, when you say “There are some negative side effects of the scarcity of invites. Some people have started selling invites on ebay (such as for what.cd or waffles.fm)” it sounds like you are insinuating that the staff of what and waffles are selling the invites, not the users. Which is not the case, so that should be cleared up before the IFPI think they can get another site down….[/quote]
Changed people to users, should be clear now ;)
Invites are a good idea but I Totally agree that they shouldn’t be sold and should be gained through a trusted friend!
As much as all this makes sense, it would be stupid to think investigators couldn’t find a way in.. i mean really.. this is the internet.
So really, this means nothing. People need to stop thinking there is a safe haven, your only safety is that you will be hidden in the huge sea of peers around you. Join private sites for the benefits, not the safety.
Here’s an idea for improving the security and quality of users. This applies to sites with user-supplied (i.e., mainly not scene) content, the way OiNK was.
When a new user is invited and signs up, give only limited access to the site. The rules, FAQ, PMs to/from their inviter and staff only, the upload form, and a limited search page that only displays a list without details or the torrents themselves (for avoiding uploading dupes).
The new user has a limited time to upload two good torrents, which are only shown to mods and the user’s inviter, not to the whole site. Once both torrents are verified by a mod as good, they go live on the site, and the user gets full access.
Yeah thats how you loose all your users with silly hoops like that.
Invites are the worst thing to happen to internet file sharing. Some people don’t seed, some people over seed. It evens out if were all sensible, good natured pirates.
i can haz torrentfreak invite pleez?
XD
I remember that message on Demonoid (RIP), that if the invite for newcomer was sold, they will return him money. Actually, I can’t imagine selling out invites on waffles, because they open sporadically, very inconvenient for cheaters. Buyer can wait for ages, even considering himself scammed.
I like invitation-based sites in theory, but it sucks when you’re on the outside looking in with no connections. I have a positive ratio on every torrent site I’ve ever been a member of.. but I don’t know people so I’ll never be invited anywhere.
#13, Find some IRC channels to lurk in, spend a bit of time in them and you may get offered an invite. Don’t ask though, most channels dont like that.
I don’t think invites are the answer to recent security concerns. I think we need to go in the other direction and try to create more anonymity.
What a lame article. You said nothing new.
I think invites tend to be counterproductive.
Global as the internet is, personal contacts concerning p2p are rare. Most contacts with persons sharing the interest in p2p are taking place online and they are anonymous contacts from forums, irc or similar. So invites are either mostly given to strangers (hoping they are the good guys) or not given at all (probably more often!).
Therefor invites help to keep user communities closed, but they first of all keep out good and fair normal users as well!
That might be hailed by some l33t wannabies that in return tend to fervently glorify their small little world and pride themselves on beeing insiders where others can’t get in -
but I think this will in fact damage and shatter the p2p world on the long run.
Trackers that promote a closed clique and are eager to keep exclusive material they want to withhold from others are deeply going against the idea of (file-)sharing and free flow and access to information an digital content.
The best policy for tracker sites in my opinion would be to provide scarse but regular (and announced) opportunities to join the crowd and to enforce a rigid ratio policy that purges cheaters quickly.
Breeding snobby groups of self-centered bootlickers might be the aim (and sought pay-off for their work?) for some tracker-admins, but it definetly keeps the more normal and open minded people (declined access) out as well - and that serves no one on the long run.
I really miss demonoid! ;)
And I’m definetly not willing to spend hours and weeks kissing asses, looking for invites and trying to join groups of people, whoes first interest is to keep others out just to feel more l33t and foster their snobbyness …
Then bittorent can die!
@ 17 - Hear hear.
Fuck closed trackers. That is all.
[quote comment="264171"]What a lame article. You said nothing new.[/quote]
Hey man, if you don’t like the article, GO ELSEWHERE, start your own news-blog and write what you want to write.
Quit complaining.
I think someone should send me an invite. I had a 5.0 ratio on demonoid. I haven’t joined another site since due to the fact I CANT GET IN. I upload all day and all night night. I only do it because In demonoid it made me proud to have a high ratio among my friends and other members of the community. Now i just hit and run everything due to the fact my uploading counts toward nothing and can get me caught.
geeky4life1 [at] gmail (dot) com
[quote comment="264222"]Fuck closed trackers. That is all.[/quote]
Go the thepiratebay then.
The only reason that we have private trackers is that:
a) All users have an account there; if they’re bad, they’re banned.
b) It’s a better community when you can actually contact the person
c) Public sites have so many hit and runners. Only private sites, that isn’t an issue. I have never seen a private site have people with bad ratios. All the users appreciate the site, so they seed for as long as possible, which results in better speeds for everyone.
So go back to Mexico, Quesadilla. :)
Yes that maybe true but as mentioned above I have a good upload ratio too and cant get in. That’s pretty lame right? The point is that private sites are good for the upload ratio but people who want share too have to beg to be a part of it.
All my friends use bittorrent but none of them is already invited to whaffles or what.cd and I dont want to ask someone else for an invite.
I dislike thepiratebay too for there dead torrents altghough they are great for standing up for leechers and have a fantastic view of how everything should, I give them al the credit for that. Still that doesn’t mean I don’t miss Demonoid they everything to share I ever dreamed of. Nowadays I don’t seem to find what I am looking for. This is making me feel more and more depressed. Ofcourse I buy cd’s sometimes but that’s only when I have listened an album over and over again. That wouldn’t have happened if I couldn’t downloaded it first. That the authorities are trying to make a criminal out of me is making me angry, they should protect the people who voted for them against the big companies, not vice versa. How about that for making terrorists out of anyone? Damm I wish I could tell a coherent story.
Happy sharing. Cheers
No matter what you might think or say, there is no excuse for not seeding at least 1:1. If you can download that amount, you can upload that amount and be fair!!
Commodity or Curse?
curse like a motherfucker
mpaa gets on the site, starts logging ips of all the new movies.xvid torrents, and tons of people in the US (including me) are fucked. Hell even if they only sent letters to uni accounts they would still be a ton of fuxored people.
[quote comment="264107"]As much as all this makes sense, it would be stupid to think investigators couldn’t find a way in.. i mean really.. this is the internet.
So really, this means nothing. People need to stop thinking there is a safe haven, your only safety is that you will be hidden in the huge sea of peers around you. Join private sites for the benefits, not the safety.[/quote]
well put.
[quote comment="264237"][quote comment="264171"]What a lame article. You said nothing new.[/quote]
Hey man, if you don’t like the article, GO ELSEWHERE, start your own news-blog and write what you want to write.
Quit complaining.[/quote]
You were abused as a child, were you?
Jeez, I keep reading these articles, and comments, and the same crap is said over and over.
PEOPLE - THERE IS NO SECURITY ON THE INTERNET!!! YOU DON’T WANNA GET HACKED/CAUGHT, DON’T USE THE INTERNET.
I think torrentfreak should right an article EXPLICITLY detailing security in P2P. VPN, relakks, invites, peerguardian, et al. List the flaws of all and the pros, but make it abundantly clear that ultimately there is no security!
Maybe then we can finally move on and talk about something else…
Like maybe when the hell Demonoid is coming back!!! (I know! I just can’t let go!)
If you’re worried about “getting caught” you shouldn’t be doing it. As noted in Ben Jones’ prior article (click on “I discussed safety”), private trackers don’t keep you safe either.
Do you think sharing content is morally wrong? Then don’t do it.
Do you think sharing content is good? Then be ready to explain why. “Getting caught” gives you a great opportunity to do so, it’s called civil disobedience.
All the blocklists and private sites in the world won’t save you from getting caught. But, to begin with, hiding is hardly the right attitude. “Getting caught” violating an unjust law is virtuous if anything.
Don’t end your opinions with ‘What do you think?’.
It’s really, really cliche and dumb.
However, ontopic, it’s really easy to get into a private tracker.
Like, incredibly easy. Lurk in an IRC for a day or so and not be an asshole and that’s really it. If I were a member of a **aa, I’d be set.
Scary.
I don’t feel as safe knowing that.
i went on vacation this summer and got booted off kraytracker if anyone can send me an invite id appreciate it there is some good stuff on there…
security and stuff = w/e i want some new tuneskees.
demonoid is indeed sorely missed in this climate.
private trackers are fine indeed but it’s most unfortunate when the staff comes across like a bunch of pretentious immature brats (i’m looking at you what.cd)
I’m not too experienced with computers maybe someone could give me a simple answer or think of a way to use this idea?
Is it possible to get an account (or more then one) with one of those off site backup storage companies that will back up your computer. Then somehow get your password and acct. posted somewhere on a website telling everyone to drop movies or whatever and pick them up from there. (Like a giant hard drive host)
That wouldn’t be “bit torrent” style traffic so hypothetically the data traveling back and forth would not be subject to the same scrutiny?? Just another big file moving in a sea of big files.
Could that work somehow?
I prefer eMule and their mods like MorphXT and Xtreme ;)
[quote comment="264492"]I’m not too experienced with computers maybe someone could give me a simple answer or think of a way to use this idea?
Is it possible to get an account (or more then one) with one of those off site backup storage companies that will back up your computer. Then somehow get your password and acct. posted somewhere on a website telling everyone to drop movies or whatever and pick them up from there. (Like a giant hard drive host)
That wouldn’t be “bit torrent” style traffic so hypothetically the data traveling back and forth would not be subject to the same scrutiny?? Just another big file moving in a sea of big files.
Could that work somehow?[/quote]
thats rapidshare and such sites
can I have an invite to all private sites please.
that’s what this is about aye? giving away invites?
thanks!
stumbled onto demonoid a few years back and signed up to be a member.
loved that site, loved my ratio and loved the asian horror scene there. invited friends onto it and they found people to share with too.
since its gone though it just sucks. how can you befriend some one for an invite? how do you know what site you want to join?
the invite idea is good in principle but in a vast internet world it leaves countless in the dark. Give me a place to make torrent friends!
To be honest, Mr fucking torrentfreak, you’re not exactly helping private trackers by posting your oh so knowledgable articles on the bittorrent scene the whole time.
Here’s a tip, from a respected staff member of a respected site, and a torrent scene veteran:
FUCK OFF AND KEEP IT OUT OF THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
[quote comment="264171"]What a lame article. You said nothing new.[/quote]
what a lame comment..
yeah…lets not divulge all our deep dark secrets…I guess the new targets will be highlighted in hyperlink-pink…
:(
anyone got a spare OiNK invite btw???
yeah…lets not divulge all our deep dark secrets…I guess the new targets will be highlighted in hyperlink-pink…
:(
anyone got a spare OiNK invite btw???
[quote comment="264682"]
… Mr fucking torrentfreak
… FUCK OFF …
from a respected staff member of a respected site, and a torrent scene veteran
[/quote]
Yeah! How “much” I can tell from your speech …
respect!
LOL
Thats exactly that kind of “private trackers” (and corresponding members) that don’t deserve any “helping” or encouragement at all.
I MISS DEMONOID !!!!
Just because you’re not a member of a private torrent site doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist. If there is a demand it will be filled. So if a lot of users seem unable to join the established private trackers, new ones pop up all the time to fill that demand.
That’s just the way it works. Find a community you like and stick with it, whether private or public.
Also, the argument that people posted about it not being fair to be a members only tracker or that it would go against the whole “spirit” of sharing doesn’t hold up. Some things have to be limited for them to work efficiently. A group of strangers sharing files with each other definitely need efficiency. That does not mean however that there is a limit on the number of private trackers that could be available, so in all fairness, this is sharing at its best. If you can’t join a certain private tracker because the limit has been reached go off to find another one. It’s not big deal, scene is scene, no matter on what tracker you are.
[quote comment="264186"]I think invites tend to be counterproductive.
Global as the internet is, personal contacts concerning p2p are rare. Most contacts with persons sharing the interest in p2p are taking place online and they are anonymous contacts from forums, irc or similar. So invites are either mostly given to strangers (hoping they are the good guys) or not given at all (probably more often!).
Therefor invites help to keep user communities closed, but they first of all keep out good and fair normal users as well!
That might be hailed by some l33t wannabies that in return tend to fervently glorify their small little world and pride themselves on beeing insiders where others can’t get in -
but I think this will in fact damage and shatter the p2p world on the long run.
Trackers that promote a closed clique and are eager to keep exclusive material they want to withhold from others are deeply going against the idea of (file-)sharing and free flow and access to information an digital content.
The best policy for tracker sites in my opinion would be to provide scarse but regular (and announced) opportunities to join the crowd and to enforce a rigid ratio policy that purges cheaters quickly.
Breeding snobby groups of self-centered bootlickers might be the aim (and sought pay-off for their work?) for some tracker-admins, but it definetly keeps the more normal and open minded people (declined access) out as well - and that serves no one on the long run.
I really miss demonoid! ;)
And I’m definetly not willing to spend hours and weeks kissing asses, looking for invites and trying to join groups of people, whoes first interest is to keep others out just to feel more l33t and foster their snobbyness …
Then bittorent can die![/quote]
Funny, while I was reading your comment Demonoid was the first name that came to mind regarding that behavior. I’m a little tired of constantly seeing the “I love Demonoid” or “I miss Demonoid” comments. Of course I (and many others) might feel differently if Demonoid had not closed sign-ups permanently. They could have the greatest content and community on the net, but it means little to the people who kept checking for months for the promised open sign-up times only to never see it happen. I’m sincerely happy for those of you who got in earlier when Demonoid regularly opened for new registrations, but forgive me if I don’t share in the enthusiastic lovefest after having a lot of time wasted.
I hope when they re-open they will be a bit more mindful about actually doing what they say in regards to periodic open sign-ups.
PRIVATE TRACKERS RULE. (SORRY BOUT THE CAPS I HAVE BAD EYES). I AM ONLY A MEMBER OF ONE, BUT I MUST SAY IT’S A GOOD COMMUNITY, AND WHILE CONNECTED TO THIER TRACKER, THE ONLY HITS I GET ON PEERGUARDIAN ARE BOGON RANGES OR THE OCCASIONAL EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT ALOT OF THE MEMBERS HAVE SEEDBOXES SO THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE IS ONLY ONE SEED AT THAT TIME, I STILL GET 500 K/SEC SPEEDS WHICH ARE PRETTY DECENT CONSIDERING I GET 850 K/SEC WHEN D/L FROM NEWSGROUPS (10 THREADS). ALSO ON A GOOD PRIVATE SITE, YOU CAN USUALLY REQUEST THINGS AND THEREFORE HAVE A WIDER RANGE OF CONTENT TO CHOOSE FROM (SOME OF WHICH YOU’LL NEVER SEE A SCENE RELEASE FOR). THATS JUST MY OPINION THOUGH :) HAPPY TORRENTING
It really is a bummer to get into invite only trackers, because what if I have no friends there?
[quote comment="264744"][quote comment="264682"]
… Mr fucking torrentfreak
… FUCK OFF …
from a respected staff member of a respected site, and a torrent scene veteran
[/quote]
Yeah! How “much” I can tell from your speech …
respect!
LOL
Thats exactly that kind of “private trackers” (and corresponding members) that don’t deserve any “helping” or encouragement at all.
I MISS DEMONOID !!!![/quote]
We just don’t wanna go to jail because our goings on have been made public by places like this mate.
please… ill suck your balls for an invite please……
For all of you saying “It’s hard to get into a tracker”; lurk in an IRC channel. Chat there, and in a day or two, someone will most likely offer you an invite if you hint at the fact you aren’t a member there.
It really isn’t difficult.
And please, stop with the “I miss Demonoid” comments. A lot of people do, we know. We don’t need to read that again.
leecher mod
ratio up
run and hit some more
thanx for the free
byebye
oh yeah fuck your site too.
the site i use asks its members not to mention the sites name on forums etc and is invite only , can only be a good thing i think as you dont end up with loads of idiots on there, demonid for example, good content but hundreds of dupes and w4nkers in the comments bit saying things dont work or films are out of sync when they were perfectly fine etc
[quote comment="264171"]What a lame article. You said nothing new.[/quote]
What a lame idiot. You said nothing new.
To those of you saying “Lurk in the IRC Channel”
Tell me what Waffles.fm’s channel is and where so I can lurk already. The website does not show the IRC Channel listing anywhere.
considering invites are not easy to get, some people are willing to pay for it cause nobody invites them. I’ve offered $$, but i guess someone generous notices how desperate I was, so i got an invite from them without asking for my $$.
Its called the free market.
Hell, we’d all like to see the RIAA abide by its dictates. We can’t very well get pissed off when the laws of the market effect the torrent community.
what kills me is that I had a great account, with a good ratio, on Demonoid. When that site went offline, a friend of mine (yeah, IRL friend no less) gave me an OiNK invite, which I kept a good ratio on. Then they went offline too.
Now, the only place that has decent Mac torrents is BrokenStones, and the only way to get an invite is to beg strangers. That kinda defeats the whole purpose of invites.
So, while I loved the private trackers for the checks and balances - I also hate them for keeping good filesharers, abandoned by C&D orders, from getting in.
It’s a win-lose situation, really.
i hate invites
why is sharing this much hassle???
its for fags
A problem with exclusive sites that require an invite is: I live in an isolated area. There are few people here, How do we get an invite to what may be a good site? I hate to say it, but the pirate bay and a few others have gotten to big and bloated with trash and duplicated torrents. Another problem with exclusive sites is: if the seeds excedes the peers, how do you ever get to or exceded a 1 to 1 ratio?
You people are idiots. Sharing copyrighted material is against the law and is wrong. Please shut the fuck up and be quiet before you all get caught. Why do you think demonoid was shut down? there were countless blogs and posts by stupid people like you praising the site and telling the world what was in them. If you all would do your part and STFU about these sites and just do your thing the chances of you being caught and the site being taken down would drop exponentially.
this is simple guys and gals, bit torrent is like fight club. You DO NOT talk about bit torrent. The site is private for a reason, if you cant find your way in then stick with TPB or BTJ or something public that has shitty speeds and no one shares. If you want a chance to get in, get an irc client and connect to some servers, a quick search with google should point you in the right direction. Good luck. Maybe I’ll see you there ;)
Im not going to say exactly where to go since I had to find my own way there and into these private trackers.
I dream of the day the entire BT community grows so much that there can be some sort of “partnership” or collaboration between private trackers. Think about it, a lot of great seeders from TL, Demonoid, oink, etc… might want to join other sites. Wouldn’t it be cool if the admins of 2 different trackers would let, even if in smaller quantities and limited time, join each other communities?
It’s a win-win because chances are that if you are a good member on [bit torrent tracker x] you are going to be a good seeder on [bt tracker z].
I mean, there could be ways for some users to abuse this system… but it would be nice…
Either that or I have just run out of ideas to try and join bitmetv.org
:-)
[quote comment="266703"]You people are idiots. Sharing copyrighted material is against the law and is wrong. Please shut the fuck up and be quiet before you all get caught. Why do you think demonoid was shut down? there were countless blogs and posts by stupid people like you praising the site and telling the world what was in them. If you all would do your part and STFU about these sites and just do your thing the chances of you being caught and the site being taken down would drop exponentially.[/quote]
YOU STFU “Sharing copyright material is against the law”
I think we all know that you little cockweasel, now go back to your media-locker d0uchebag and stay in there.
The site that I’m part of the staff, people get caught trading, they get banned and also all those who that person invited.
Let me tell you a story of mine :
Last year a work colleague of mine invited me to OINK. By the time OINK was closed I had a ratio of over 2.0 and I had contributed something like 400GB to the community.
Oink is dead and I’m homeless. This elitist invite only attitude is a complete crock of shit. I’m surely in the top 5% based on contribution’s alone yet here I am, not downloaded a single song in 3 months.
Of course should you have an invite i wouldn’t turn it down…. telehouse@googlemail.com ? please do…
People deal with it. You are either 1. stupid
2. annoying
3. simply not trying.
Also Blogs like this are bad for the torrent community. Any kind of advertisement is. Please be quiet people.
Torrent Bully invite (excellent site!)
for your IP Torrent invite.
blown_prix@yahoo.com
thanks
anyone out there who can spare an invite to what.cd would be an awesome gift and i will not disappointment you.
wilkesdidit@gmail.com
I´ve an invite for torrentleech and vipv2… I need an invitation for waffles.
Thanks
If you want invites, or have something to giveaway, visit http://darkinvites.org
We are a newish community with 250 members, and we will help you out, if you help us out
http://darkinvites.org/index.php?referredby=1
Now with lots of users, join people, great to be all your invite needs.
I don’t think an invite based system is a bad thing,although it may be a little flawed.I run an invite trading and giveaways site ( no selling ) and it makes sense to have an invite system because even if people are not giving the invite to someone they know, at least its going to someone they most likely checked out to make sure they would be a good member of that site.The invite system is in effect for that very reason, so they get good bittorrent members who will seed back what they take.Sure you have d-bags selling the invites, but thats why people who trade need to start giving them away more,if they’re more easily available then people will stop paying.So I say its half commodity half curse.
my site where you can get
free invites http://invitenation.org
I think its upto the site owners to decide whether they want to be exclusive or not. I feel some users just collect trackers for the heck of it, while some actually devote time to the community and use it.
Rocky
Webmaster @ http://www.pokermoviefanatic.com
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forum with tracker invites: http://www.trackers.myforum.ro/
it is hard as hell to seed to a 1:1 ratio on private sights. there arent as many people on them as public trackers, and the only private tracker I know of that gives you credit towards upload ratio just for seeding the torrent regardless if anyone is downloading it or not is iptorrents.
hell I JUST got banned from bitmetv for having a low ratio- but I seeded that shit like I was a whore, but I still got no gain towards ratio-and how the hell are you supposed to keep all those gigs on your pc while you wait for someone to download that shit-me I got a laptop so there is noooo way
lots of great giveaways,no trading at http://invitenation.org
Could I get an invite to waffle.cd or waht.cd? baller3141@hotmail.com
Thank You
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