Usenet Community Takes Anti-Piracy Group to Court
Written by enigmax on May 15, 2009A Usenet discussion community is taking notorious anti-piracy outfit BREIN to court. BREIN, which has taken action against many Usenet and BitTorrent sites including Demonoid and Mininova, has declared the activities of FTD illegal. Angered by these claims, FTD is now taking BREIN to court to force it to eat its words.
Back in January 2009, Dutch publication Volkskrant published an article about Usenet titled “You do not pay for it, it’s unlawful”. In it, Tim Kuik, head of anti-piracy outfit BREIN made some aggressive comments about Netherlands-based discussion site, FTD. “Although they [FTD] are not carrying illegal content on their servers, what FTD does is simply criminal,” he said.
Founded in 2001, FTD is the largest Usenet community in The Netherlands with a massive 450,000 members. The site and its software allows FTD’s users to report the location of material they find on Usenet, which could include the usual movies, music and TV shows. Of course, once other members know where to find the material, the downloading can begin. Since much of the material downloaded is copyrighted, BREIN went on to claim the site is illegal, but the picture in The Netherlands is not necessarily how BREIN paints it.
Downloading movies, TV shows and music from the Internet for your own personal use is completely legal in Holland. Making copies of original material you own for your own use is also completely legal. Even making copies of pirated material you don’t own is legal, provided it is exclusively for your own use. Although certain torrent sites can exist in a murky semi-gray area, FTD doesn’t even link to copyright works hosted by someone else – there is no so-called “structural infringement” which BREIN claims some BitTorrent sites demonstrate.
Considering the above, FTD are pretty annoyed that Tim Kuik of BREIN called them criminals, since his claims have no basis in law. Unlike many sites threatened by copyright groups, FTD aren’t sitting back and taking this, they are fighting back.
“FTD is a perfectly legal activity,” said FTD director Ronald Sievers, a point on which his legal team agrees.
“BREIN’s claims are built on legal quicksand,” says FTD lawyer Arnoud Engelfriet. “They speak of ‘facilitation’ and the structural use of the availability of unauthorized downloads, as if it were a foregone conclusion that this is prohibited. Nothing could be further from the truth. Furthermore, FTD only facilitates communication between people who quite legally download from Usenet. FTD does not facilitate or carry out any upload and therefore can not be held liable.”
So, supported by two Dutch copyright lawyers and IT experts, FTD have filed a lawsuit against BREIN in which they request the court clarifies these points;
1. That downloading is legal in the Netherlands, even if the uploader committed copyright infringement when he uploaded the material.
2. That directing users to content on Usenet via FTD is legal, even if the material was put there without permission of the copyright holders.
3. That FTD is acting within the law, considering the above.
4. That there is no need for FTD to filter any of the reports its users create which refer to the location of content on the Internet
5. That FTD does not have to remove any of these reports, unless BREIN makes a correct and formal complaint.
Of course, FTD also want a retraction of BREIN’s statement that FTD is illegal. “FTD require a public statement correcting this and wants a declaration from the court that they were simply acting legally,” it said in a statement.
Additionally, Kuik also quipped that “what FTD do clearly constitutes a crime,” to which Arnoud Engelfriet, one of FTD’s lawyers responded, “A correction of this should be published on BREIN’s homepage too.”
A copy of the subpoena can be found here. (pdf)
Previously: Another Scandal Surrounds Pirate Bay Judge
Next: Trial of OiNK BitTorrent Site Admin Delayed Until 2010
67 Responses
This could be a really interesting suit to see if linking to copyrighted material is illegal or not
Good riddance. I hope they win. BREIN is the dutch version of RIAA.
let BREIN swear,touch their ears with pants down.
‘ i dont wana mess with u’
Downloading is not legal. And the Minister of Justice was wrong. Just read what the Dutch judge said about this: (Dutch) http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/51653/rechter-verklaart-downloaden-toch-illegaal.html
http://www.24oranges.nl/2008/06/28/there-is-such-a-thing-as-illegal-downloading-says-judge/
and like thepiratebay has learned, it is not about normal internet users uploading or downloading their crap, it’s about people that work hard to establish a catalogue of illegally copied files (including ranking, comments, ratings et cetera)
Well, at least a bunch of lawyers and judges will be happy with this. and brein, because judges have already decided on people creating ‘indexes’ and catalogues.
Thanks for the article. A quick correction on the final part: they didn’t say it was “punishable” but that FTD’s activity constitutes a crime (”strafbaar feit” in Dutch). It’s a form of slander to accuse someone of criminal activities.
The case quoted in #5 and #6 is being appealed and so has no legal value. Further, responding to #5: the court said the Minister of Justice was wrong, but didn’t substantiate why. And the Minister repeatedly insisted he was right, with reference to legal analysis.
They do not have a chance against BREIN and this Mr. Kuik. He is just unbeatable! I feel pity for them…
I guess BREIN didn’t expect them to counter-attack?
Anti piracy morons “bending the truth”, no news there… move on, move on.
On the other hand, someone finally standing up to BREINless, woot!
Kick their asses guys!
“It’s a form of slander to accuse someone of criminal activities.”
Like I’ve been telling Reasoned Mind (/Troll), but he/she won’t listen. I’m sure he will come around shortly and accuse filesharers of criminal activity once again.
I think judges generally do not like it when you tell them that their verdict is of no legal value. Rest assured that your judge will have a look at it.
He did substantiate it, because the private copy exception simply is not good enough of an excuse to allow downloading from an illegal source. He referred to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_three-step_test
But because Dutch people generally do not care about what Brussels has come up with, their knowledge stops at the German and Belgian borders.
The downloading from an illegal source problem in the Netherlands is equally half baked as the soft drugs policy (allowed to smoke, not to produce). Allowed to download, not to upload.
Throwing in a ton of money (private copy fund) and charging iPod users for their MP3’s will not compensate for a flawed ‘arrangement’ (not even legislation) that severely damages the commercial interests of rights holders.
I wish you all the best with your legal proceedings Amice but you should have informed your clients about this. And perhaps also the cases whereby portals to illegal content where declared ‘evidently illegal’ and they had to at least clean them out. No matter whether others had put the pirated files there.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
It’s of no legal value because there is an appeal pending. It’s not case law.
The Minister explicitly confirmed that they did apply the three-step test when considering the private copying exception. The court merely said he hadn’t, which is simply wrong. They didn’t substantiate why the article would fail the test. (For references see the summons or mail me)
Another argument (which we didn’t raise) is that judges simply aren’t supposed to apply the three-step test. It’s intended for lawmakers to broadly evaluate exceptions to copyright, not for judges to apply in specific situations. See Koelman 2003 http://pubs.cli.vu/pub93.php
For your other arguments I refer to the summons which addresses them, including the /single/ case of a portal being declared illegal. Which, incidentally, was an appeal in which the portal guys didn’t show up and so BREIN won by default. In first instance they argued and won.
From what I can see it’s not illegal in that country. However, the RIAA/MPAA are trying to make it illegal.
It won’t be long before they threaten everyone, pay off the politicians and judges so that it will become illegal.
This is how they operate. They are experts at this maneuver and they have a nearly successful track record so far.
Putting the burden of “knowing” what is illegal content and what is not on the average user is unrealistic, yet taking that ability away from the user takes away fundamental rights and freedoms. So which is it going to be? Freedoms or grey areas? Because eventually we will all have to choose.
See, the thing is with this is that when the general population comes to the final conclusion before the law, guess what happens in a free society? You guessed it, the people choose. So much of this is such a colossal waste of time protecting the “financial interests” of an outdated distribution cartel at the loss of everyone’s freedom. Not worth it, period. You cannot buy off EVERY judge and this will all fade to an embarrassing memory and a pock mark on the integrity of the legal system. WE decide.
BREIN is going to be POWNED. Think that 70% of all dutch people agree with FTD. GOGOGO FTD, I’m using it every day and love that program.
To support FTD make a donation!
Good stuff.
For the lawyers that is.
Hopefully they’ll be sacked too along with another MAFIAA/RIAA/MPAA/BRIEN/TWAT/IPRED/FAST/HADOPI/TLA_leeching_twat_bags.
10 PRINT “GOTO END”
20 REPEAT 10
END
Best wishes to FDT.
They could ask for some money too, as a repair for damages. Obviously calculated only by FDT.
All similar as labels do.
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XD
please ignore the maffia propaganda from people like “surrender” and “for the english people”
Members shall confine limitations and exceptions to exclusive rights to certain special cases which do not conflict with a normal exploitation of the work and do not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the rights holder.
TNO report Ups & Downs:
The economic implications of file sharing for the level of welfare in the Netherlands are, on balance, strongly positive in the short and long terms. File sharing provides consumers with access to a broad range of cultural products. Conversely, the practice is believed to result in a decline in sales of CDs, DVDs and games.
Estimates of the volume of global unauthorised download traffic vary strongly, but all signs are that this involves many billions of files per year, constituting a substantial share of international internet traffic. Around 4.7 million Dutch internet users aged over 15 years have, over the past 12 months, engaged in downloading without paying on one or more occasions. People tend to see music, film and game sharing as a generally acceptable phenomenon, yet they are ill-informed about the techniques used and the relevant legislation.
To the extent that file sharing does result in a
decline in sales (substitution), it usually entails a transfer of welfare from producers to
consumers. With estimated welfare gains accruing to consumers totalling around €200
million a year in the Netherlands, music producers and publishers suffer turnover losses
of at most €100 million a year.
http://www.seo.nl/nl/publicaties/rapporten/2009/2009-02A.html
@#7; Arnoud.
Are there any dox on the following available? Besides iusmentis.com? You have my keyboard, anyway. <3
“responding to #5: the court said the Minister of Justice was wrong, but didn’t substantiate why. And the Minister repeatedly insisted he was right, with reference to legal analysis.”
Who was the idiot that put sharing on the same level as theft?
And for the laws that give all these nice “rights” to some people at the exclusion of others peoples rights be prepared to see how laws are really born. People wont stop sharing no matter what anyone say about it, it just not happening and I feel sorry for those that believe otherwise.
Very good that some people “talk” back to the MAFIAA, finally…
@15, interesting point.. I think I’m with you on that one. Instead of being the distributors of music, the record companies became the owners of the music and now that new cheaper and faster forms of distribution have come up, they are not ready to let go of their old ways..
@15 YessaMassaWEG
I agree with you that in the end it will be rights for “freedom of speech, freedom of information access, freedom of information sharing” against intellectual property, copyrights and patents. It seems that those on second side decided to push harder so that final decision would shift their side but how long it will take for other side to broadly wake up and start pushing back.
Anyways all that pushing in favor of copyright holders may be will lower piracy but it certainly brings USSR/China type of censorships and punishments in to Internet trough censorships where it is possible and fear there where it is not(and there is a lot more cases where technically censorship is impossible)…
In the end it seems we will need to decide what is more important to humans as a society. Is it freedom of sharing information in any way or form(as borders between types of information and problems of it’s distribution are erasing by the evolving Internet) are or right to completely control and monopolize content we spend our time creating…
In this case it is interesting is “freedom of speech” allowing to share information on “where to get illegal stuff”? Or such information sharing is considered to be illegal? Sounds funny I know if you try to think of in in terms of drugs :D Sorry policeman I can’t share information about drug dealer with you as sharing such information is illegal :D
Anyways I find it very hard to believe that world where information sharing will be strictly controlled and censored is a world where we are going and if so I rather die fighting for different tomorrow then live in it…
I remember asking the peeps @planet.nl what the limit of the FUP policy was and was told “well if you download say 15 movies every day for a few months then we say you are taking the piss” and you used to get credit for downloading music every month. There were 2 prices, 1 with drm and 1 without, the later being more expensive until every 1 started to rip the DRM music and then it was only drm free @ the higher price he he he. They also stated on their home page once that downloading the odd movie / music was legal but not software. Downloading copyrited software is a big no here in the nederlands. Glad I use linux.
finally, :D
qw get to c anti-piracy group taken to court and the fact that it is BREIN makes it sweet
all my wishes and suport for FTD, you rocks
DIGGING and stumbling the news :)
@#23: yes, but I hope you can read Dutch. For the court case, see http://jure.nl/BD5690 and don’t forget the case note by internet lawyer Christiaan Alberdingk Thijm at http://www.solv.nl/weblog/thuiskopie-wint-zaak-over-hoogte-vergoeding/3998
The Minister’s analysis is in Acts of Parliament II, 28842, nr. 5, p. 18 (Kamerstukken II 2002- 2003, 28 482, nr. 5, blz. 18): http://www.geencommentaar.nl/parlando/index.php?action=doc&filename=KST67132.pdf
In 2007 he answered questions from Parliament in the same vein. http://www.boek9.nl/getobject.aspx?id=3516
@#23: I just submitted a response with links but I think some spam filter ate it. Is there a limit to the number of links you can include?
Anyway, most of the actual sources are compiled on my blog at http://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/06/28/wellesnietes-de-thuiskopie-uit-illegale-bron/
I’m sorry, I don’t understand this whole “downloading from Usenet” thing. Isn’t Usenet sending messages much like email? So how do you upload and download? Where are the files downloaded from? Back to UUCP or something?
Keep on downloading and uploading. They can only get a small amount of users before their funding runs out.
They won’t even be able to get all of those users.
They will have to adapt and that will make organizations like BREIN and MPAA etc redundant and irrelevant.
After that they will have to compete with existing transfer protocols. The only way they will win is by supplying a superior download speeds.
If you can’t defeat your “enemy”, join him. Superior service is the answer.
Wake up, drones of the system
Anyone know what happened with Alan Ellis of OiNK? The trial was today according to oink.cd/.me.uk.
Hmm, must have updated in the last minute or so. It’s been adjourned *sigh* again until 25th September.
When are they just going to let it go? They obviously can’t find any of the non-existent “evidence”.
“Downloading movies, TV shows and music from the Internet for your own personal use is completely legal in Holland. Making copies of original material you own for your own use is also completely legal. Even making copies of pirated material you don’t own is legal, provided it is exclusively for your own use.”
Oh how I WISH such laws existed in the U.S. So the Netherlands has better copyright laws AND better beer than the U.S.A. (love Heineken but Bud sucks)
“Copying kills music”. It’s true. By recording music to a master and then copying millions of times to sell the copies like any other industrial mass product, music has been killed. Music is dead. RIP music.
@39, Yes.
All that seems to be released now are over-sensitive warbling “artists” doing covers or compilation albums containing songs that have been released hundreds of times before.
They are making FTD look like a bunch of cool rebels that fight against the anti-copyright force..
But what you should know is that FTD used to have (a few months ago) direct links to usenet search sites (like binsearch.org) but after some BREIN complains they adjusted their client, removed all direct links to search providers, and removed other things that BREIN could complain about…
Sometimes I wish all these “copyright owners” (v. content creators) would suddenly get their way and shut everything down – because then they would see everything just die. No increase in sales. No way to reach people interested. No interest at all from anyone.
They are essentially performing their own suicide. Very little of what I listen to or watch is connected to major labels or studios anymore. It’s canned stuff, same-old-same-old stuff.
That’s what they are really battling. People would find other ways to find stuff that interests them. That would also be very unfortunate because it’s also an economy killer for a lot of things.
The problem with the argument about paying people who produce the content is that these TRADE organizations that hold the copyrights aren’t content creators. The people who actually create the stuff get the lowest $ possible.
In all the years that FTD and BREIN excist,BREIN has been bitching for no reason.Allways bullshitting about how they’re going to take them down but without results.
Some time ago FTD removed all the NZB-links from their forum, in fear of tim kuik and his gang of thugs.
At the time it almost looked as a kind of shutdown,like mininova did,now it looks like a clean up to me.Getting ready for battle sort of thing.
I hope they win this case,hell, I’ll bet all my kudos on FTD.
cheers,
-the Queef-
Interesting read. Love point 47:
“Short and well, FTD limits itself to provide a platform to post a message that says that the movie Slumdog Millionaire is to found in the newsgroup alt.binaires.boneless.
IF THAT IS ILLEGAL, SO IS THIS SUBPENA”
Haha, great way to make your point. Will be good to see what happens here.
Haha FTD did what the pussies from Mininova are afraid to do: actually put up a fight
42–>”The problem with the argument about paying people who produce the content is that these TRADE organizations that hold the copyrights aren’t content creators. The people who actually create the stuff get the lowest $ possible.”
——————
That is where all this farce about “protecting the rights of the artists” ends.
All this parasitic organizations (BREIN, RIAA, IFPI, SGAE, etc.) don’t care at all about artists that they represent… In the actual record music industry an artist get pennies from their hard work. Around 10% of the total profits is given to the artist, and the remaining 90% is stolen by the middlemen, in this case the record music industry. This is real piracy, and not filesharing.
That I never will understand is as the law courts don’t see this big theft from the music industry as piracy and crime. This leads to another conclusion: the actual judicial systems and governments are inneficient, corrupt and obsolete in nature and already don’t represent to the people anymore.
All this subject about “copyright infringement” is the biggest farce on the earth, and this the only thing that protects are the pockets of the irrelevant middlemen from the outdated entertainment industry.
Ya.. go BREIN. Take down USENET.
While your at it, you should take down email service too because I’ve emailed MP3s to friends before..
BRIEN=SMART
funny.. I spelled it wrong
BREIN=SMART
Downloading may not be illegal, but downloading copyrighted files, regardless of of the technical details underlying the nature of the system is illegal. Any service that sanctions this by not removing illegal files is acting beyond the law as well.
It’s like the pirate bay. Ever since it’s conviction (I guess pirates don’t like being reminded that piracy is illegal?) people were quick to respond with “zomg soz u thinkt thaht torrezntz r ileegal?” The pirate bay has stated that they “no torrents should be removed” and that’s what they do. The fact that they turn a blind eye to all the copyright infringement they facilitate is in effect proof that they support copright infringement. I don’t know why people insist on mystifying the pirate bay’s agenda because it is sure as hell isn’t that complicated. The pirate bay was founded by an anti copyright group (in other words, self centered pieces of crap), which just shows that they intend to disregard the law. They should be held accountable for their actions. This is the funny part. Just because it’s over the internet, people think that it’s okay, and no one should be accountable for anything.
People stealing things with torrents is not some new trend that the market has to adapt to (if I had nickle for every time I heard this bs excuse.) It’s just crime that should be dealt with. Nothing more.
Is the duty of all citizens of this planet to pirate copyright material for the simple fact that copyright should not be used to rob peoples right to culture and knowledge.
The Pirate Bay it’s just a symbol anything bad they do will be overlooked but what people see it’s the important part “Pirate Bay = Freedom to share and expand your horizons”.
And if people were more organized they would start suing the MAFIAA for futile things just to strain them financially could you imagine 6 billion people donating 50 cents how much legal pain they can bring it on? It’s not going to happen of course because people don’t have the civil infra structure in place to do it and coordinate but everyone can just ignore ridiculous laws and share(pirate) stuff and this will hurt more and more as more people just realize they don’t have to pay for artificial privileges and what governments can do? Nothing you can’t imprison the whole population so the laws will have to change.
By the way, big content owners are just plain evil as the common Joe on the streets that is being criminalized.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/real-studios-dvd-cca-illegal-cartel-squeeze-out-fair-use.ars
As it seems RealNetworks is suing the MPAA for bad pratices like excluding others from the market.
It is ridiculous and any sane person can see anti-trust laws being ignore by those scumbags from the MAFIAA.
Real thiefs are people who:
- Out of greed extend copyright and patents making it perpetual and robing society of what is their(culture and science).
- Monopolize and try to own all aspects of something excluding others from being able to profit from it those hurting the major employer in the whole world small business.
- People patenting genes and sallying “exclusive” kits for thousands off times the price to make that product.
Those are really the thiefs here not Mary with 3 kids struggling to pay the rent.
@48 Did you even read the article before penning your speech?
Downloading is NOT illegal in Netherlands, we don’t need a 2page lecture on Pirate Bay either, its a completely different situation
@48 neostyle:
‘Downloading may not be illegal, but downloading copyrighted files, regardless of of the technical details underlying the nature of the system is illegal.’
Perhaps you should actually read the article instead of spreading FUD. Downloading of music and films is legal in the Netherlands, regardless of the source, as long as it is for private use. The law states this, the Minister of Justice confirms this and it has been upheld in court several times.
‘People stealing things with torrents is not some new trend that the market has to adapt to’
A torrent file is a binary number stored on a computer. How on Earth would a torrent file aid you in stealing anything?
Eat them! Eat your own words you wanted to use to harm us for no reason whatsoever… eat them, get sick of them and never come back…
@48 (neostyles)
You are an idiot.
@neostlyes
“The pirate bay was founded by an anti copyright group (in other words, self centered pieces of crap), which just shows that they intend to disregard the law.”
And right there, you revealed yourself to be an utter prick.
A huge number of people disregard copyright, for one simple reason. It makes no god damned sense in this day an age.
Find a better way to monetise this shit, or fuck off. Personally, I don’t care which.
Brein means Brain in Dutch. Can’t say they have brains, though. Downloading music and movies in NL is perfectly legal. Uploading them, however, isn’t. Same with the drugs laws. The provider is prosecuted, but the user isn’t.
In the case of the drugs, that actually makes sense. You can’t blame someone for being addicted. But I never heard of addicted downloaders :).
@48
its not illegal and its not stealing dumbbell
@56 Joshua
Never heard of addicted downloaders?
I’M HERE! :)
Push for copyright laws like this in every country.
ftd is legal so brain shut up!!!!!
@56, joshua: “In the case of the drugs, that actually makes sense. ”
are you sure?
There’s coffeeshops (pot stores), legally, in about every city more than one, and there’s people buying there, legally and accepted as well; but how can selling Y be legal if you’re not allowed to get it from anywhere but the shops itself (except perhaps the, also legal, home-grow (maximum 5 plants i believe)).. basically saying that this industry/businessmodel is illegal/impractical, yet thrives for at least 20 years.
(would make sense to state something like this over the music industry though: their industrial business model is illegal/impractical, but never judged as such to outlaw it)
(the drugs we’re talking about here are only hash & weed; for anyone listening in)
and ontopic:
GO FTD!!
:)
@neostlyes
“The pirate bay was founded by an anti copyright group (in other words, self centered pieces of crap), which just shows that they intend to disregard the law.”
Wow…self centered pieces of crap huh? Now tell me, how are the MPAA and the MAFIAA any different? Aren’t they also self serving pieces of shit? Yeah, sorry, you’re right, the MPAA and the RIAA are completely in the right, the copyright system is fine, and it doesn’t need reform. Dude, wake the fuck up, and take the corporate cock out of your mouth.
BREIN needs to get laid
http://www.3istgah.com
RIAA/MPAA/BREIN is all just an extension of the Military Industrial Complex.
Rage against the machine and start a tracker today. Teach 3 new people how to share files and ask them to teach three new people how. Ha, Ha, Ha. Put you money where your mouth is, sell the entertainment industry stocks short.
“I considered my newspaper, as another means of communicating instruction, and in that view frequently reprinted in it,” Benjamin Franklin
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