Virgin Media CEO Says Net Neutrality is “A Load of Bollocks”
Written by enigmax on April 13, 2008The new CEO of Virgin Media is putting his cards on the table early, branding net neutrality “a load of bollocks” and claiming he’s already doing deals to deliver some people’s content faster than others. If you aren’t prepared to cough up the extra cash, he says he’ll put you in the Internet “bus lane”.
Net neutrality really is the hot topic at the moment. Ignited by the Comcast fiasco, the concept of net neutrality has certainly been brought into the mainstream. Most ISPs are never quite forthcoming about their throttling, capping and otherwise interfering behavior, but that crowd certainly doesn’t include the CEO of Virgin Media, the UK’s second largest ISP.
In an interview with the Royal Television Society’s Television magazine, far from covering up their intentions, Virgin Media’s new incoming CEO Neil Berkett - who joined the Virgin Media Board just a few days ago - has launched an attack on the ideas and principles behind net neutrality.
“This net neutrality thing is a load of bollocks,” he said, adding that Virgin is already in the process of doing deals to speed up the traffic of certain media providers.
With around 3.5 million customers in the UK, and already traffic shaping due to lack of capacity, it’s a sobering thought that at the behest of “content providers” with deep pockets, Virgin is prepared to speed up their traffic, which would presumably have a negative impact on those at the bottom of the ISP’s priority list, namely bandwidth hungry file-sharers.
Berkett then turned on the BBC and their iPlayer service, telling them - and other public broadcasters like them - that if they don’t pay a premium to gain faster access to Virgin Media’s customers, their service would be put into “bus lanes”.
It just shows that some ISPs are happy to throttle just about anyone in the name of profit, it’s just that most aren’t as open about it as Mr Berkett.
via DigitalSpy
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231 Responses
public broadcasters like BBC should turn around and tell Virgin if you don’t give OUR customers the same bw as everyone else, we’ll give YOUR customers no service.
Those Assholes Talk like They Are Giving Us The Connection For Free.
I wish he gets Gang Raped.
PS : Just Asking , Is There Any ISP Which Give Proper ‘ Unlimited Connection ” ?
Unlimited In The Sense :
Dictionary:
unlimited
(ŭn-lĭm’ĭ-tĭd) pronunciation
adj.
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
unlimitedly un·lim’it·ed·ly adv.
unlimitedness un·lim’it·ed·ness n.
Alienating your customer base is always a great business move. This will work out really well.
I’m currently with Virgin. If his actions are as big as his words, I along with thousands of other file-sharers wiil be leaving.. Give your customers what they want, dont persecute them. What a prick!
Keep going along this path and they’ll be Virgin no more. They’ll be F&*^ed!
@4; I’m already gone then I move.
Their billing is a joke!
Here to the fall one once a great media company (C&W & NTL).
Since Virgin took over,
Its just be going down hill.
- Danny.
Hahahaha
Just got a guy from BT/Sky come round the other day offering a free BT line connection (instead of £150) the other day, switching to Sky now because Virgin are REALLY going down the drain. This is just another reason to add to the list of why we’re changing.
(And their customer support is SHITE)
Peace
Saying internet neutrality is bullox is like saying human rights is bullox. Internet is something msot of us need, its like having electricity/water and other things thats considered a human right to have.
How would it look if you gave more water to the ritch guys and less water to the ones in small homes and low income jobs? Its a violation of human rights, and exactly what internet neutrality is about preventing.
Virgin will become a human rights violator if they start treating groups of users differently, noone cares what you use your water for, if its to drown someone or to survive the same should apply to the internet as its a intigral part of our lives jsut as water, electricity and other services. If they cant deliver enough water they should do what is normaly done and expand the service, not start preatching who should recieve the most water and who should be cut out..
Who’s talking load of bollocks here?!?
Threatening the BBC into paying money to deliver what the customers pay you (and not the BBC!) for to get?!?
What about customers who want the BBC stuff leaving our Virgin virgin if he can’t behave?!?
April fool’s day is over and you, Mr. Berkett, execute a miserable fool here - and you are late on top!
But no! Wasn’t he named CEO - chief executing officer? So what theatrical play will you execute tommorow, Mr. Berret? Always beeing at pains to entertain your customers?
Let’s hope you will still have some audience tomorrow if your representation doesn’t please.
ofc if you use water to drown someone then thats the police job, not the water service provider..
Oh gosh, I wish the BBC would do something improbable such as just blocking all Virgin customers from using any BBC related site.
I know it’d never happen, but I’d love to see Virgin scramble…
fuck that cunt!
thank fuck for talktalk
Its a worrying trend to see a CEO make such sweeping statements regarding how his company offers services to people who would like their own choice in the matter respected.
Lets hope Virgin are hauled up before a parliamentary committee to explain why they believe they have the right to penalise their customers for utilising a service they where sold.
what a disgusting attitude.
Unforutnately, virgin is the only isp prepared to offer 50meg connections (soon). So im staying with them. I’ve had no downtime, live a long from my exchange yet get 19.7meg on a 20 meg contract and seem to get bittorrent speeds of 2.3mb/s. Virgin are great, and I doubt this “bus lane” thing will have much impact then :-)
As long as they don’t give in to the BPI I’m happy - although the net neutrality thing did shock me. Next we’ll have someone “owning” the internet.
Pffft, they want nothing more than more money. Charging people for their connections isn’t enough, they want to charge whoever the people access through the connections :x
Ahahahahahahah! Sorry? Did I miss something? Ahahahahahaha!
I like the Burkett CEO - she’s one of the funniest women I’ve ever heard of.
Aaahahahahahah!
So the content creator - whether corporate, commercial, hobbiest, non-profit or charity - has to pay for hosting. Then they pay the host for bandwidth. The more money, the better bandwidth. But to really make use of that bandwidth, they have to also pay internet service providers. And then the end-user also has to pay the service provider.
So the carrier/ISP gets to double-dip. Everyone pays everyone at every level for everything. And can you imagine the MASSIVE accounting headaches that would come with having to maintain payments and invoices for your little internet website or company to EVERY ISP ON THE PLANET to make sure people have a good experience with your site?
And since I run a non profit auction site, how long until eBay pays every carrier a shitload of money to increase their speeds. AND another shit load of money to *DECREASE* every auction site’s speed that is not ebay?
Fuck this guy. I’ll never buy or use a virgin product. Period.
meh
If you’re in the UK check out this website for a list of all the decent ISPs.
Virgin Media are 2nd to last with a pathetic 3.3/10!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
I can personally say good things about zen.co.uk - clear monthly caps and no traffic shaping whatsoever.
Here marks the beginning of the end of innovation of the internet..or perhaps the beginning of the end of Virgin as an ISP…I’m pretty sure it’ll lose its userbase mighty quick if it decides to throttle the iplayer
@ The BBC/Media Providers being charged….
Don’t pay, you have the power to get customers to switch to another ISP to provide decent access to your service.
[quote comment="343339"]If you’re in the UK check out this website for a list of all the decent ISPs.
Virgin Media are 2nd to last with a pathetic 3.3/10!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
I can personally say good things about zen.co.uk - clear monthly caps and no traffic shaping whatsoever.[/quote]
I think you’ll find it is 6.75/10, not 3.3, no one uses the adsl version any more.
Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours
These virgins need to get laid.
Virgin maybe well gay with the policies, but as long as you don’t use BitTorrent to download (which I don’t) then you are fine. I get 2.5MB/s currrently from them, which i might add is going up to 5MB/s at the end of this year. All that needs to happen for you to remain a happy Virign customer, is too use a bit more sense and a little more effort so as to avoid being throttled.
I seem to remember Virgin squeeling like a pig when Sky tried to get them to pay more for their services/programmes and now look at them.
Two faced greedy g1ts.
Scandalous remarks.
His comments are EVIDENCE for the need for net neutrality.
To prevent people putting PROFIT/GREED before quality.
I paid for my internet connection. That is meant to fund my traffic for the various sites I visit, not the content providers. Its a case of having your cake and eating it.
Virgins actions should be made illegal.
[quote comment="343255"]Who’s talking load of bollocks here?!?
Threatening the BBC into paying money to deliver what the customers pay you (and not the BBC!) for to get?!?
What about customers who want the BBC stuff leaving our Virgin virgin if he can’t behave?!?
[/quote]
Actually, I think you are cos I don’t understand a word of that.
iv been with virgin media for nearly a year … there a joke! … i canceled my direct debit months ago by phone and letter as they cant be trusted with bank details … and so iv been phoneing up and paying with my card over the phone, then they kept my card details without my permission and used them the following month, also 3 days before i usually get my bill and without giving me any kind of notice before hand …. i got a £30 bank fine which as it was virgins fault its my opinion they should pay it, after a hour on the phone argueeing with twats they said they would refund it if i sent my bank statment off, so i did, and a month later and iv had no reply, not to my letter or the countless emails iv sent.
There happy to take your money and steal extra for services you dont have but you wont get much in return
Virgin media = CRAP
[quote comment="343307"]Unforutnately, virgin is the only isp prepared to offer 50meg connections (soon). So im staying with them. I’ve had no downtime, live a long from my exchange yet get 19.7meg on a 20 meg contract and seem to get bittorrent speeds of 2.3mb/s. Virgin are great, and I doubt this “bus lane” thing will have much impact then :-)
As long as they don’t give in to the BPI I’m happy - although the net neutrality thing did shock me. Next we’ll have someone “owning” the internet.[/quote]
Obviously the net neutrality thing did _not_ shock you. At least not hard enough to make you renounce the fast connection. You don’t seem to be satisfied with the “bus lane” either. And you seem to be prepared to pay for the 50meg connection. And that’s the way it works. You accept shit in exchange for more of whatever you think you want. You push for “this net neutrality thing is a load of bollocks” as hard as the other guy is pushing it.
[quote comment="343350"][quote comment="343339"]If you’re in the UK check out this website for a list of all the decent ISPs.
Virgin Media are 2nd to last with a pathetic 3.3/10!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
I can personally say good things about zen.co.uk - clear monthly caps and no traffic shaping whatsoever.[/quote]
I think you’ll find it is 6.75/10, not 3.3, no one uses the adsl version any more.
Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours[/quote]
The limits are between 4 and 9PM, I don’t know where you got 7 and 9. Also, they don’t cut your line at 50%, I’m on 4mbit and when throttled technically I should be on 2. This is not the case, as I can barely load a web-page at all, let alone at 2mbit. Don’t trust everything you read on the Virgin site.
[quote comment="343203"]Those Assholes Talk like They Are Giving Us The Connection For Free.
I wish he gets Gang Raped.
PS : Just Asking , Is There Any ISP Which Give Proper ‘ Unlimited Connection ” ?
Unlimited In The Sense :
Dictionary:
unlimited
(ŭn-lĭm’ĭ-tĭd) pronunciation
adj.
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
unlimitedly un·lim’it·ed·ly adv.
unlimitedness un·lim’it·ed·ness n.[/quote]
Verizon FiOS in the US. 20 MBit Fiber. I used 5 Terabytes in a month and not even a phone call!
at least he’s honest, gotta give him credit for that, opposed to the sneaky bastards at comcast. well he’s still a bastard but not so sneaky.
Just a thought but, we may want to question the validity of this story. In the past month TF has posted stories saying virgin is going to disconnect us, give us free usenet, has told the BPI to shove off and now that they think net neutrality is b***ocks and are going to throttle the BBCs iPlayer service.
I think someone is taking tiny stories about government greenpapers on a 3 strikes policy and ISPs being ‘concerend’ about iPlayer and making them into a sensationalised story with an easily critisized corporate giant as the bad guy. and who better? A big cable company, just like that evil torrent throttling Comcast.
Virgin isn’t Comcast just because they are both big cable companies doesn’t mean they operate in the same way!
Show me the original statement from the CEO and i’ll eat my words. But I’m guessing this whole story is manufactured to make people hate Virgin.
[quote comment="343545"][quote comment="343350"][quote comment="343339"]If you’re in the UK check out this website for a list of all the decent ISPs.
Virgin Media are 2nd to last with a pathetic 3.3/10!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
I can personally say good things about zen.co.uk - clear monthly caps and no traffic shaping whatsoever.[/quote]
I think you’ll find it is 6.75/10, not 3.3, no one uses the adsl version any more.
Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours[/quote]
The limits are between 4 and 9PM, I don’t know where you got 7 and 9. Also, they don’t cut your line at 50%, I’m on 4mbit and when throttled technically I should be on 2. This is not the case, as I can barely load a web-page at all, let alone at 2mbit. Don’t trust everything you read on the Virgin site.[/quote]
Although it oughtta be right by 9PM, I’ve been still being shaped well after 10:30PM…
what a dick.
Sounds like you in the UK are about to get shagged by a virgin.
[quote comment="343203"]Those Assholes Talk like They Are Giving Us The Connection For Free.
I wish he gets Gang Raped.
PS : Just Asking , Is There Any ISP Which Give Proper ‘ Unlimited Connection ” ?
Unlimited In The Sense :
Dictionary:
unlimited
(ŭn-lĭm’ĭ-tĭd) pronunciation
adj.
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
unlimitedly un·lim’it·ed·ly adv.
unlimitedness un·lim’it·ed·ness n.[/quote]
You are like the 3rd person on torrent freak to wish rape upon someone. Hey - we all hate dicks like Burkett, but why so eager to rape? Wouldnt it be enough to just kill the guy?
Every ISP in the UK is demanding money from the BBC for bandwidth consumed by the bbc’s iplayer. It would seem the iplayer is more of a drain on resources than even bittorrent!. So surely the BBC needs to adapt its technology as much as the ISP’s need to upgrade their equipment.
Virgin is just a brandname bought by NTL. And Virgin promised you unlimited downloads not an unlimited connection. Read your ToS.
“I wish he gets Gang Raped”
I second that with
“You butt-hole will now have more bandwidth”
Here is his email address:
neil.berkett@virginmedia.com
[quote comment="343582"]Just a thought but, we may want to question the validity of this story.[/quote]
Every TorrentFreak news post is published with at least one source and usually multiple sources.
In respect of the post about Virgin Media disconnecting file-sharers from the internet, we referenced our source - The Telegraph. It turned out that The Telegraph were wrong, and they didn’t link to any sourceat all. However, we did a follow up article to explain the true situation. You can read that here:
http://torrentfreak.com/virgin-media-denies-doing-deal-to-disconnect-pirates-080403/
If you have a problem with this post, you will also see that as usual, we provided a link to our source, in this case, DigitalSpy.
So if you think the new CEO didn’t call net neutrality a load of bollocks, then I suggest you take it up with them. And if you find out he didn’t, i’ll happily print a correction :)
good to see the head of GB’s largest isp has a well formed, professional opinion.
virgin media = load of bollocks
if you think he DID say that, then you should maybe do more research than seeing it on another website and posting it. (how about finding the original source?) If you consider yourself a serious journalist then it’s up to you to do your own fact checking.
All you have done is spread a rumour that you read elsewhere, it’s like a paper putting something a friend of a friend overheard in a pub on the front page.
TF is becoming renowned for posting rumours as fact. It’s just a shame is all. It used to be a good P2P blog.
Mr Berkett forgets that Virgin isn’t the only ISP in the world (or even in UK) which means he’s not in control and never will be. The story of Comcast seemingly taught him nothing.
I foresee another bankruptcy filled in a few years. ;-)
[quote comment="343745"]Here is his email address:
neil.berkett@virginmedia.com[/quote]
And whatever you do people don’t go adding it to random sites online as that could cause an unecessary amount of unwanted mail to be sent Berk’s way.
“When asked about the iPlayer’s P2P system (which you can’t switch off, meaning that once you download shows, they’re available for other iPlayer users to download from you), Highfield says that the ISPs have sold “unlimited” broadband to their customers without expecting us to actually use the service without limits. They have a dishonest pitch for their technology, and Highfield essentially says,
[b]“Well, that’s their problem.”[/b]
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/30/bbc-execs-strawman-d.html
Your right, it is betweeen 4 and nine, my fault. The throttling depends on the package you have.
For everything to do with virgin’s capping, see: http://techdigest.tv/2008/03/virgin_media_sp.html
I think this whole thing is really messed up.
OK, first of all: people using the internet for real-time connections, like IMs Skype, deserve to get their traffic delivered first. I think we can all agree on that - at least to a certain extent. If someone is having an HD video conference, well, that’s pushing it. But for people with regular web cams, they should get what they need.
As for the rest - file sharing, streaming, etc - they all deserve the same speed. No one has a right to make people have to pay for their right to get good speed.
If they do not have enough bandwidth at a certain time, well, maybe limit everyone’s connection speed a KB/s to allow everyone a good connection. But for cryin’ out loud, don’t single out the file sharers! People streaming media are doing EXACTLY the same thing! The details are just slightly worse!
[quote=Neil Berklett]…service broadcasters who choose not to pay for faster access to Virgin’s subscriber base would end up in “bus lanes”[/quote]
And there you go, ISPs are already threatening to use DPI hardware to blackmail.
Lets see …
I make all my money from my customers who pay me money, and I in turn provide a service for them. So you could say that the consumer is the base of my company.
I have this great idea, lets shove a stick up the customers proverbial ass, and see if they will still pay me money!! Oh wait, my customers don’t like that? What a strange concept …
Time to boycott Virgin Media!
Stand up and be counted citizens of the internet!
It just shows that some ISP’s
are more than happy to sell more bandwidth than they can provide ..
@49
You brought up a point. However, I disagree that those who need real-time connections deserve something else than others. When HD TV or HD video over the internet looms on the horizon, it makes sense for the bandwidth providers to clear out the file-sharers. Streaming certainly needs near real-time connections and there’s probably a lot more money in it than from the file-sharers.
We file-sharers singled out ourselves because we’re causing anywhere between 50% to 80% of the overall traffic. Not because we need fast connections. We don’t need fast connections, actually. We need many peers. That’s the idea of the Bittorrent protocol. What’s the use of a 50 Mbit/s connection, when there are only 20 peers who upload at 1 Mbit/s?
an ISP’s shouldn’t have content; they are only there to serve up a connection to the internet. If they’re fucking your connection to serve some of their own garbage, then it would be a good time to fly the bird and connect with someone else.
Virgin Media is a load of bollocks.
@54
But why not a package suitable just for filesharers? “Somewhat less speed, but we won’t dictate what for or how actively you can use it and it’ll even cost you a little less”. I bet most dedicated sharers rather have a connection they can rely on and not have to worry about being *additionally* capped, than leech/seed some unspecified but definitly limited amount of time at full speed promised by their current package.
What a surprise, my ISP (Karoo) is at the very bottom!
Nice bus lane analogy Berkett, ya nub. They’re there to keep masses of people moving in peak times, (and makes an interesting abstract for encapsulation). Infact sometimes, while i’m sitting there idling itching to get home on a friday night i’m sure the people in the buses passing besides me are flipping me the bird and laughing hysterically at all the extra ‘bandwidth’ they have. The cost of a bus ticket is much less than fuel and servicing… hmm it’s starting to sound preferable actually.
Bus lane? yes please!
@57
Right. Let’s just make sure car drivers don’t cross the line and clog the bus lane. Buses are moving all the time.
“Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours”
On a 20meg connection, you can (and I quite often do) break that limit in approximately 30 mins if using your connection to the full. That’s what I flaming well call traffic shaping!
If virgin cannot offer this service without shaping whenever someone actually has the nerve to use it, they shouldn’t be offering it.
(you haven’t quite got the facts right though, it’s actually 3gb between 4 and 9, and lasts 5 hours)
So when everyone starts paying the big bucks for faster content we’ll all be in the bus lane. Then what?
@60
When Dick Bollocks or whatever his name was is talking about bus lane, he’s probably imagining things. Things like “schedule”, “waiting at the bus stop”, “driver”, “bus ticket”, “surveillance camera”. You’ll never know what people are prepared to do for money. The bus lane as a high volume traffic guarantee in a traffic jam*) is fine with me. He just needs to understand that metaphors don’t work if everybody else has a different picture of a bus lane.
*) I’m confident that’s written down somewhere in the traffic development plans for the inner cities.
ive been on virgin for quite a while and with the exception of their kinda shitty 5pm-9pm shaping they have been very good to me. never had any downtime and have been maxing out my upload speed non-stop for about a year.
“A Load of Bollocks” is a line that can also define his companies venture that involves shuttling people into outerspace.
It was only a matter of time until all this has happened and starts coming around. We know the internet that we currently enjoy wasn’t formed with the corporations ‘interests’ in mind. It was formed around a neutral aspect. Todays corporations, like Virgin, are turning it around to make the internet the way corporate america wants the internet to be, not the way the internet was designed to be. The more these providers want to start toying with traffic the more they need to be held to the fire over what the traffic is. If they are going to play with p2p traffic what are they going to do about other traffic? I think “ad server” traffic is going to get first dibs on everything, and follow down the chain in that route.
I wouldn’t consider anything a monopoly like Virgin has to say, as anything that’s good for neutrality.
@ post 24 - The day i download 3gb from virgin in 3 hours is the day pigs will fly and politicians will tell the truth! NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
Man, Virgin’s PR department is NOT going to have a good day come Monday.
I actually appreciate this sort of straight talking. Berkett might lose a few customers, but he knows how to maximise profits.
I hate corporate whores, but the worst ones are the ones that claim to care for their customers when they don’t. At least Virgin are saying “If you want such and such, you have to pay for it”. Other companies are guilty of false advertising.
Same shit happening for BELL CANADA and all the other Smaller resellers like Primus and 3Web.
http://www.wellandtribune.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=981092
This is getting ridiculous, feels like middle east which every move you make is controlled and censored.
“which would presumably have a negative impact on those at the bottom of the ISP’s priority list, namely bandwidth hungry file-sharers.” yes because no one likes those guys who buy the best packages and pay the most money for their internet nooooo!!! virgin loves all the elderly who buy a $5 a month dial plan so they can email their families … piss off you idiot file sharing IS the internet if there is no file sharing there is no internet
Link to interview: http://www.katebulkley.com/18-19neil_berkett.pdf
“Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk.”
There’s no point having the speed if you just get throttled when you use it.
“You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb”
Wrong. You can get throttled at 300MB! Look at their Traffic Management page.
Virgin Media are truly the pits.
What a fucker.
Please hurry and give me traffic shaping! I can’t wait for my VOIP calls to get priority over porn browsing and file sharing. Now I have to use my mobile — VOIP is too unreliable. I’m also looking forward to my iTunes movie rentals working in real time (they usually do, but not always).
I love it when people do a Ratners on their own business.
Humble pie in 2 weeks..
Why the hell are all the people paying equally for your service if you are going to control who gets what?
If filesharers are going to be at the bottom, then they should get free connections. Prick.
This is very unfortunate: I rather liked Virgin until now.
They are an international company with a lot of different kinds of operations. Here is a link on Wikipedia to the airlines, trains, games, financial companies, music companies, mobile phones, internet services, mobile phones, cable tv, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Group
I am sure you and I both can find other ways to spend our money than giving it to a company who wants to make Internet communications cheap for the rich and expensive for the poor.
I think a lot of people are completely missing the point here.
Virgin Media, and EVERY other ISP in the UK is complaining that the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging bandwidth.
All Virgin have done is to be vocal about the ‘issue’. Boycotting Virgin media and moving to another ISP will not change the ‘issue’.
Virgin offer you a ‘free’ cable television package which also allows you to watch selected broadcasts from the last 7 days.
Many people have video recorders or DVD recorders which allow them to record and watch at their leisure programmes they would otherwise miss.
And then, there is bittorrent, a brilliant free resource for downloading ‘DRM free’ television programmes etc whenever you want, and available to all.
The BBC’s Iplayer is a P2P application that allows the downloading and sharing of the BBC’s ‘DRM protected’ programming and only useable within the UK.
I imagine there are more users of the Iplayer in the UK than there are users of bittorrent clients, simply because the majority of PC users within
the UK are not internet or bittorrent savvy. And not to mention the recent scare stories in the press concerning ‘Pirates’ and ‘illegal file sharers’ which
have deterred a lot of potential new bittorrent users.
Why did’nt the BBC opt to post their DRM protected programming on a public bittorrent tracker rather than their in-house Iplayer, why did’nt they invest in a few servers
on which to host their downloads? … And why does the BBC persist in the use of ‘Real Player’ for streaming its online programming?..
Will owning a PC with an internet connection now make us liable to pay the ‘Licence fee’because BBC programming is available even though we might not own a television ?
The Iplayer is not the only bone of contention with British ISP’s there is also Channel Fours ‘4OD’ application.
Both broadcasters have ignored public bittorent trackers and free bittorrent clients in favour of in-house applications and DRM protected media.
Now, who really are the ‘bad guys’ in this tale? Virgin? … I don’t think so.
Is this guy the new Gerald Ratner?
Bye bye Virgin! I’m gone…
Virgin Media is slow i use its shit
by Virgin
>>Virgin Media, the UK’s second largest ISP.
Not for long, kids.
[quote comment="344865"]I think a lot of people are completely missing the point here.
Virgin Media, and EVERY other ISP in the UK is complaining that the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging bandwidth.[/quote]
Well, boo hoo. I don’t give a fuck *what* the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging. I don’t care if it’s fueled by dead babies. There’s no excuse whatsoever for breaching net neutrality, and blaming the Iplayer is a particularly shitty excuse, at that.
YOU are missing the point.
[quote comment="345004"]Bye bye Virgin! I’m gone…[/quote]
Where are you going to go?
Read:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/internet-groups-warn-bbc-over-iplayer-plans-461167.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/14/bbc_iplayer_isp_analysis/
I dont work for Sky them and I hate being an ardvert, but since I had telewest a few years ago the only other ISP that I have liked was Sky. £10 for a 16M unlimited connection (admitadly thats if you have a tv package as well, but still), and def not throttled. Was getting episodes of differnt things quicker than I ever have from public trackers.
Ive had to move to another flat at the moment so the only net access I have is at work, I was thinking about getting Virgin when I moved into a new place due to the hype regarding cable and the service I had with Telewest, but I will def be getting Sky again. Crap Tech support though, but you cant have everything.
[quote comment="345036"]>>Virgin Media, the UK’s second largest ISP.
Not for long, kids.
[quote comment="344865"]I think a lot of people are completely missing the point here.
Virgin Media, and EVERY other ISP in the UK is complaining that the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging bandwidth.[/quote]
Well, boo hoo. I don’t give a fuck *what* the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging. I don’t care if it’s fueled by dead babies. There’s no excuse whatsoever for breaching net neutrality, and blaming the Iplayer is a particularly shitty excuse, at that.
YOU are missing the point.[/quote]
What is the point?
Is it that you yearn for a more expensive connection? Is it that you like DRM files? Is it that you prefer the UK only Iplayer over a global bittorrent client like Utorrent etc?
Have you got a point to make?
Surely the “bus lane” is where you put traffic that you want to have an empty lane all to itself and therefore get there faster?
Freckin Brits cant use proper english. I think he means to say Bullshit. Bullocks is not proper to his meaning. I do not endorse his ideals.
I love the passionate arguments regarding Human Rights…Genius!
You are all whining about having your service shaped because you feel that it is your RIGHT to pirate music, movies and warez from BitTorrent (arguments of legitimate use of BitTorrent are soooo lame).
Now water, air, food, shelter the right to protest are all Human Rights…the Internet is not (we don’t need it to exist as a species).
So if an ISP wants to manage data on thier network then so be it….
Frankly If I was him I’d say BitTorrent is not supported period… Go and buy content you pikeys!
[quote comment="345222"]I love the passionate arguments regarding Human Rights…Genius!
You are all whining about having your service shaped because you feel that it is your RIGHT to pirate music, movies and warez from BitTorrent (arguments of legitimate use of BitTorrent are soooo lame).
Now water, air, food, shelter the right to protest are all Human Rights…the Internet is not (we don’t need it to exist as a species).
So if an ISP wants to manage data on thier network then so be it….
Frankly If I was him I’d say BitTorrent is not supported period… Go and buy content you pikeys![/quote]
Now there is some bullshit! There is a million legal torrents out there. So bugger off, you!
[quote comment="345235"][quote comment="345222"]I love the passionate arguments regarding Human Rights…Genius!
You are all whining about having your service shaped because you feel that it is your RIGHT to pirate music, movies and warez from BitTorrent (arguments of legitimate use of BitTorrent are soooo lame).
Now water, air, food, shelter the right to protest are all Human Rights…the Internet is not (we don’t need it to exist as a species).
So if an ISP wants to manage data on thier network then so be it….
Frankly If I was him I’d say BitTorrent is not supported period… Go and buy content you pikeys![/quote]
Now there is some bullshit! There is a million legal torrents out there. So bugger off, you![/quote]
Oh and by the way, electrons are as free (if not more so)as O2.
[quote comment="343458"]
Actually, I think you are cos I don’t understand a word of that.[/quote]
I’m not responsible for your lack of comprehension.
“Threatening the BBC into paying money — to deliver what the customers pay you (—-) for to get?!?”
“What about customers (—) leaving our ‘Virgin virgin’ (aka Mr. Bigmouth here - the very newly assigned CEO!) if he can’t behave?!?”
Does that help you to grasp the general idea?
Allways helping the intellectuelly deprived …. ;)
[quote comment="345246"][quote comment="345235"][quote comment="345222"]I love the passionate arguments regarding Human Rights…Genius!
You are all whining about having your service shaped because you feel that it is your RIGHT to pirate music, movies and warez from BitTorrent (arguments of legitimate use of BitTorrent are soooo lame).
Now water, air, food, shelter the right to protest are all Human Rights…the Internet is not (we don’t need it to exist as a species).
So if an ISP wants to manage data on thier network then so be it….
Frankly If I was him I’d say BitTorrent is not supported period… Go and buy content you pikeys![/quote]
Now there is some bullshit! There is a million legal torrents out there. So bugger off, you![/quote]
Oh and by the way, electrons are as free (if not more so)as O2.[/quote]
I’t the 100 million + illegal torrents that make your number seem small fry…..
Shouty shouty whine whine…I bet you stomped your feet when you wrote the post.
[quote comment="343583"][quote comment="343545"][quote comment="343350"][quote comment="343339"]If you’re in the UK check out this website for a list of all the decent ISPs.
Virgin Media are 2nd to last with a pathetic 3.3/10!
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
I can personally say good things about zen.co.uk - clear monthly caps and no traffic shaping whatsoever.[/quote]
I think you’ll find it is 6.75/10, not 3.3, no one uses the adsl version any more.
Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours[/quote]
The limits are between 4 and 9PM, I don’t know where you got 7 and 9. Also, they don’t cut your line at 50%, I’m on 4mbit and when throttled technically I should be on 2. This is not the case, as I can barely load a web-page at all, let alone at 2mbit. Don’t trust everything you read on the Virgin site.[/quote]
Although it oughtta be right by 9PM, I’ve been still being shaped well after 10:30PM…[/quote]
You’d like to think so wouldn’t you. Turns out, no matter when you reach your limit, they’ll cap you for the full 5 hours. Say you hit your limit at 8:59, you’ve got a nice 5 hour capping to look forward to from then. Awfully good of them to do so, isn’t it?
Uh. Bus lanes are faster than normal lanes. The man’s an idiot.
I would think of the “bus lane” as a place special traffic goes to allow it to be faster. So quite how saying that to the BBC is a threat, I don’t know!
Virgin Media broadband was rubbish. Traffic managed after reaching a ludicrously low daily limit, and frequently down so I had no connection at all. If you want to complain, it means calling a rip off premium rate number. I’m glad I ditched them.
by FugaziQuote Fugazi
@60
When Dick Bollocks or whatever his name was is talking about bus lane, he’s probably imagining things. Things like “schedule”, “waiting at the bus stop”, “driver”, “bus ticket”, “surveillance camera”.
*cough Phorm cough..
http://www.fipr.org
http://www.openrightsgroup.org
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/
check out who Phorm are what their Webwise system is, how it is planning on intercepting your webtraffic to profile the information on each web page you view (including http webmail) then look who’s planning in implementing it.. there’s your surveilance..
http://www.badphorm.co.uk/page.php?2
http://www.antiphormleague.com/index.php
nice info Bob Dobbs, hadnt heard about that phorms shite, it all sounds a bit cheeky to me
anyone thinking of getting virgin media, i wouldnt bother they have poor internets, poor customer service and they charge you for services that you dont have, then they dont refund your money and ignore every attempt you make at contacting them
There liars and thieves
what an ass.
““““““““““`
http://www.warez-bb.org
@ comment #2: “PS : Just Asking , Is There Any ISP Which Give Proper ‘ Unlimited Connection ” ?
http://www.np10.co.uk/broadband.html
[quote comment="343220"]I’m currently with Virgin. If his actions are as big as his words, I along with thousands of other file-sharers wiil be leaving.. Give your customers what they want, dont persecute them. What a prick![/quote]
That’s exactly what he wants anyways. After all, you file sharers are what cost the ISP money, probably more than you pay. If you leave then there is less congestion on the network and less money paid in bandwidth costs.
@93 Bob Dobbs
Thanks for the links. I read about it on the Light Blue Touchpaper blog.
http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/04/04/the-phorm-webwise-system/
Phorm is an underworldly case for parasitic behaviour. They don’t want to sell you the newspaper while you’re waiting at the red light. They want to stop you on the highway, write down where you’re coming from, where you’re going and what you’re doing here. And to prevent you from becoming angry at them, they pretend to be someone else and give you a ton of flyers to distract you.
I hope the petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/ gets signed by loads of people. Well done to post it here, Bob.
azureus is running a check on all isp’s through a dl’d ad-on…and it shows ALL uk isp’s throttle…i’m with virgin and staying.Why ? getting a average of about 18.5 meg dl on a 20 meg line and dling between 2-3 meg with bittorrent
[quote comment="345826"]azureus is running a check on all isp’s through a dl’d ad-on…and it shows ALL uk isp’s throttle…i’m with virgin and staying.Why ? getting a average of about 18.5 meg dl on a 20 meg line and dling between 2-3 meg with bittorrent[/quote]
That’s bollocks, not all ISPs throttle.
Virgin are shit, and I recommend all current customers to change. I’ve used both cable and adsl services, and things go wrong all the time, their customer service is a joke and its a premium cost line, so your paying to get to get a problem fixed that was their fault in the first place. Speeds on adsl are crap, and not because of exchange distance but because they ARE limiting your speeds. All that advertising jargon about unlimited and incredible speeds is a pile of toss.
@93 Bob Dobbs
Thanks for the links. I read about it on the Light Blue Touchpaper blog.
http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2008/04/04/the-phorm-webwise-system/
Phorm is an underworldly case for parasitic behaviour. They don’t want to sell you the newspaper while you’re waiting at the red light. They want to stop you on the highway, write down where you’re coming from, where you’re going and what you’re doing here. And to prevent you from becoming angry at them, they pretend to be someone else and give you a ton of flyers to distract you.
I hope the petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/ gets signed by loads of people. Well done to post the link, Bob.
Currently ISPs have to choose between either giving everyone a slow connection, or implement traffic shaping. the latter is infinitely preferable to them because they earn money from content providers and can still advertise a fast connection.
The root cause of the problem (in the UK at least), is network that isnt fit for purpose. Currently, the average UK internet connection lags behind most third world countries.
its a waste of time complaining that ISPs do not treat us fairly, because the problem is only going to get worse until the capacity is increased considerably, and this could only be achieved by installing thousands of miles of new fibre optic cables in the UK alone
[quote comment="345222"]I love the passionate arguments regarding Human Rights…Genius!
You are all whining about having your service shaped because you feel that it is your RIGHT to pirate music, movies and warez from BitTorrent (arguments of legitimate use of BitTorrent are soooo lame).
Now water, air, food, shelter the right to protest are all Human Rights…the Internet is not (we don’t need it to exist as a species).
So if an ISP wants to manage data on thier network then so be it….
Frankly If I was him I’d say BitTorrent is not supported period… Go and buy content you pikeys![/quote]
WTF who said anything about pirating? Frakkin Ahole learn to read. My government sees the Internet as a basic human right service now, just as water and electricity. There will come rules as there is already for the other human needs services, those rules will hopefully ban the unjust trafic shaping occuring today.
As said, noone cuts your water because your neighbur needs more and is willing to pay more, WILL NEVER HAPPEN! Water is a human right to have access to, untampered access and so should the internet be too, it will be soon but its not quite there yet.
ISPs taking matters into their own hands has NOTHING to do with piracy, its greed. Fiber got unlimited bandwith but instead of raising subs for awhile so they can install it where its needed they frack their users. The problem with bandwith are the switches, they are expensive but jsut a minute increase in subs and most ISPs will have those switches all over the country: Bandwith problem solved.
“Most” European ISPs invest heavely in infrastructure and thus buy these switches instead of screwing their customers, look at Sweden are they doing mutch shitty stuff like other places in the world? Not realy just the small almost unheard of ISPs. US is so far behind most ISPs will change to bandwith related fees, UK i hope are better off then most of those places.
For those that dont know by now, sweden is basicly the largest Bittorrent infestation in the world, and no bandwith problems severe enough to screw customers by making “bus lanes” and slowing down normal trafic by giving more bandwith to the “bus lanes”.
Basicly with their “bus lane” idea, they steal your bandwith and gives it to people who pay, imagine when they run out of bandwith completely (witch they will if they keep this up), you buy your 50mb/sec uber connection and viola your browsing with a k56 modem again!
Thats what Net neutrality is all about preventing.
Anyways end of discussion for me.
[quote comment="345524"]
Virgin Media broadband was rubbish. Traffic managed after reaching a ludicrously low daily limit, and frequently down so I had no connection at all. If you want to complain, it means calling a rip off premium rate number. I’m glad I ditched them.[/quote]
Virgin allow you download as much as you want. It does not apply traffic shaping between the hours of 9pm and 4pm the following day. 19 hours of unshaped downloading.
If your download speeds seem slow maybe the fault lies with your PC.
Are you using the ethernet connection or wireless and USB? Have you a firewall running?
Are you on a Virgin fibre optic connection?
About 12% of the load on my website comes from Virgin customers. As virgin are obviously putting a disproportional load on my little bit of the network, would the be prepared to provide me with a details of how I should bill them for the network traffic THEY’RE generating on MY network?
And Yes - the BBC should charge Virgin and/or traffic shape them (or cut them off). Virgin generates traffic for everyone else’s networks…
[quote comment="344666"]Please hurry and give me traffic shaping! I can’t wait for my VOIP calls to get priority over porn browsing and file sharing. Now I have to use my mobile — VOIP is too unreliable. I’m also looking forward to my iTunes movie rentals working in real time (they usually do, but not always).[/quote]
Who says you’re no already being shaped? You just said that you’re using your mobile… Is it a Virgin Mobile contact / plan?
huh? any content provider who does pay will gett heir traffic put in a ‘bus lane’ ? but the bus lane is uncongested, guaranteed to flow during heavy traffic periods and can carry more people when its fully loaded.
so yay! stick ALL my traffic in that there bus lane.
what an idiot. one of those management people who should engage their brain before speaking!
[quote comment="345963"]
And Yes - the BBC should charge Virgin and/or traffic shape them (or cut them off). Virgin generates traffic for everyone else’s networks…[/quote]
What about the BBC charging BT, Talk Talk, Orange, O2, and every other ISP, because the BBC run a inhouse UK only P2P/bittorrent client as do Channel four and Sky?
[quote comment="345961"]
Virgin allow you download as much as you want. It does not apply traffic shaping between the hours of 9pm and 4pm the following day. 19 hours of unshaped downloading.
If your download speeds seem slow maybe the fault lies with your PC.
Are you using the ethernet connection or wireless and USB? Have you a firewall running?
Are you on a Virgin fibre optic connection?[/quote]
On a 11 Mbps Wireless-B (802.11b), you should theoretically get 1.375MB/sec (probably more like 800KB/sec - 1MB/sec practically.) Having multiple users might knock that down a little more, but for all intents and purposes, you won’t really be maxing out any type of connection unless you’re doing local transfers or have really really bad signal (which the other poster should have realized =b).
Conclusion: It shouldn’t matter what kind of network you’re on to get maximum speed.
[quote comment="346013"]
On a 11 Mbps Wireless-B (802.11b), you should theoretically get 1.375MB/sec (probably more like 800KB/sec - 1MB/sec practically.) Having multiple users might knock that down a little more, but for all intents and purposes, you won’t really be maxing out any type of connection unless you’re doing local transfers or have really really bad signal (which the other poster should have realized =b).
Conclusion: It shouldn’t matter what kind of network you’re on to get maximum speed.[/quote]
If you are a 10Mbit connection then the above would be true.
Maybe you need a new wireless router or a new PCI USB2 card if you have a slot free.
here, go yell at them
http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/contact/complaint-feedback.php
Article 82 - abuse of a dominant position.
A82 is directly enforceable in the national courts. VM has a dominant position in the UK broadband market - this is an automatic presumption in the cable market as their share is 100%, and, based on the structure of the UK backbone-network, a reasonable and fair assumption regarding broadband in general.
they are acting in a manor that can only be said to be taking unfair advantage of their position to the detriment of the broadband market in general - and they are doing this independently of us the consumer: ie: we get this crap and there is absolutely nothing we can do.
whilst having a dominant market share, and being in a monopolist position is _not_ illegal - abusing this position is. VM are starting a consumer/isp war that the consumers cannot win. they are abusing the technological development of the UK’s broadband system by prejudicing our use in a way we cannot avoid. an utterly artificial creation.
as VM own the cable network, there is no cross elastic supply. the consumer is lacked into contracts which generally fall foul of elastic demand the moment they abuse their position. the good news is that no VM customer is bound to their unfair contracts that stifle the advancement of uk broadband - be it traffic shaping or whatnot.
vote with your wallets - sign up to another ISP!
[quote comment="345069"][quote comment="345036"]>>Virgin Media, the UK’s second largest ISP.
Not for long, kids.
[quote comment="344865"]I think a lot of people are completely missing the point here.
Virgin Media, and EVERY other ISP in the UK is complaining that the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging bandwidth.[/quote]
Well, boo hoo. I don’t give a fuck *what* the BBC’s Iplayer is hogging. I don’t care if it’s fueled by dead babies. There’s no excuse whatsoever for breaching net neutrality, and blaming the Iplayer is a particularly shitty excuse, at that.
YOU are missing the point.[/quote]
What is the point?
Is it that you yearn for a more expensive connection? Is it that you like DRM files? Is it that you prefer the UK only Iplayer over a global bittorrent client like Utorrent etc?
Have you got a point to make?[/quote]
His point was (OBVIOUSLY):
“There’s no excuse whatsoever for breaching net neutrality, and blaming the Iplayer is a particularly shitty excuse, at that.”
Did you happen to miss those particular nuggets of opinion?
*Supplied by FreeCl00 ™ Enterprises. “Bringing cl00 to the masses one tard at a a time…)
[quote comment="344865"]
why did’nt they invest in a few servers on which to host their downloads? … [/quote]
Huh? Where the hell do you THINK they’re hosted?
[quote comment="344865"]
And why does the BBC persist in the use of ‘Real Player’ for streaming its online programming?..[/quote]
Quite simply, it doesn’t. there’s ALWAYS a choice - shitty as it is. (Think: Media Player)
Looks like there’s nothing to worry about for Virgin customers in the long run. According to the following article, BBC iPlayer content is set to be delivered through the cable in the near future:
http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-bbc-iplayer-also-to-run-on-cable-virgin-more-launch-accelerated-to-july
“We’re also committed to making it available on the television screen, which is why we are delighted to be working with Virgin Media towards a launch on cable later this year. We are hopeful that other TV platforms will follow soon after. Our vision is for BBC iPlayer to become a universal service available not just over the internet, but also on cable and other TV platforms, and eventually on mobiles and smart handheld devices.”
Very backwards-thinking attitude. Time to boycott Virgin.
[quote comment="345708"]@ comment #2: “PS : Just Asking , Is There Any ISP Which Give Proper ‘ Unlimited Connection ” ?
http://www.np10.co.uk/broadband.html/quote
Many thanx for the URL. I’m on cable, but as soon as I can arrange the installation of a BT line, I’m there!
Anyone who can call themselves “np10 - heavy duty broadband” gets my vote. =]
“By Rich
Posted Tuesday 14th August 2007 13:55 GMT
This assumes that the iPlayer is going to be so massively successful that the whole internet infrastructure will collapse under the volume of traffic that it will generate.
If this is not the case, (and I rather suspect it won’t come close), then I fail to see what the ISPs’ arguments are for trying to screw cash out of the BBC. They don’t get anything from YouTube for streaming their content. They don’t get get cash from BitTorrent sites. They don’t get anything from Google, or Yahoo, or (indeed) the “normal” BBC web site. Why? Well, despite these services / sites generating huge amounts of traffic, the ISPs know they wouldn’t get anywhere!
The ISPs clearly see the iPlayer as an easy target (it’s publicly funded and it’s on their home turf) and so are wanting to hold the BBC to ransom over it. This all sounds entirely without justification.”
Good point.
fuck him! net nutraility ftw! http://stopvirgin.movielol.org/
Virgin are greedy, corporate scum. Good luck guys, watch your customers drop. How dare they try to own the peoples’ space for freedom of speech for the sake of money. Boycott Virgin!
STOP Virgin Media!!
Screw Virgin Media in restricting and limiting access to the internet. This is just one step, but soon we will start being restricted in all of our freedoms left and right, until we are controlled and channeled along one path. 1984? Ya, pretty much.
DEFF NOt goign to let this happen
[quote comment="346028"][quote comment="346013"]
On a 11 Mbps Wireless-B (802.11b), you should theoretically get 1.375MB/sec (probably more like 800KB/sec - 1MB/sec practically.) Having multiple users might knock that down a little more, but for all intents and purposes, you won’t really be maxing out any type of connection unless you’re doing local transfers or have really really bad signal (which the other poster should have realized =b).
Conclusion: It shouldn’t matter what kind of network you’re on to get maximum speed.[/quote]
If you are a 10Mbit connection then the above would be true.
Maybe you need a new wireless router or a new PCI USB2 card if you have a slot free.[/quote]
He already said “802.11b”. Do you need new spectacles?
Neil Berkett is a predetermined scapegoat. If we speak out now they just blame him. Does everyone see through this PR move?
Another corporate asshole to put on the list.
This has to be protested. If we don’t speak out other ISPs are going to follow along when they see Virgin wasn’t contested on this at all.
if i was a hosting company and i lost members and/or money from this i would sue them for infringing on my and my users rights to free expresstion and for loss of income due to malicious and negligent behavior
IF THIS CARRIES THROUGH YOUR STOCKS WILL FALL YOUR MOTHERS WILL BECOME PREGNANT AND YOUR INTRANET WILL BECOME FOR OF STUPID THINGS NO ONE WANTS TO VIEW…. GOOD BYE FREEDOM… I THOUGHT THAT WE LIVED IN AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE?! O WAIT GUESS NOT
Guys, everyone must say against Virgin because it will be the end of the internet!! Net neutrality MUST SURVIVE.
If they do this they will regret it.
ISPs are getting out of control. Us customers won’t stand for having someone controlling what we are and are not supposed to. Most of us are getting sick of our lives being controlled by these big corporations, and now that they’re starting to decide how we should view our largest insight to the rest of the world they’ve crossed the line. The fact that corporations are willing to call freedom of the internet and net neutrality “a load of bollocks” is a sign that they’ve become too comfortable with the idea that they control the world. This is a sign of the beginning of a major issue, and something the internet using world needs to sit and contemplate, for personally I won’t stand for the idea of my interaction with the vast majority of the world being pigeon-holed by whoever has the most money. The time of money being more important than morality is a timeless issue, and this corruption is a major problem that needs to be dealt with before it gets out of hand.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT HOW THEY DISAGREE WITH THIS. NET NEUTRALITY IS ONE OF THE LAST THINGS WE HAVE! DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN! EVERYONE HAS A SAY IN THIS! EVERYONE!
@108: [quote comment="345961"]
Are you on a Virgin fibre optic connection?[/quote]
hahahaha - what the hell. You’ve fallen for the adverts. It’s coax from the UBR to your house. Go on, look at the cable, it’s copper. Clueless frickin moron.
[quote comment="343230"]Keep going along this path and they’ll be Virgin no more. They’ll be F&*^ed![/quote]
QFT
pay for your net neutrality
md sc gv
sc md gv
gv sc md
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZL6PjKD584
oh snap anonymous has actually reply’d to this
Keep the internet the way it is, with this happening the internet will DIE, the internet is a community not a fucking Tv show
[quote comment="343203"]Those Assholes Talk like They Are Giving Us The Connection For Free.
I wish he gets Gang Raped.
n.[/quote]
I agree. I hope HE gets violated.
Or possibly choked to death, by a black man deep throating him
[quote comment="343203"]Those Assholes Talk like They Are Giving Us The Connection For Free.
I wish he gets Gang Raped.
n.[/quote]
I agree. I hope HE gets violated.
Or possibly choked to death, by a black man deep throating him
Lol you must be a damn fool to switch to virgin just for the “50 meg service” they claim they will soon get. Don’t forget that other ISPs will likely offer this sooner or later.
For now, why would you need 50 meg vs 20. The internet works completely fine without virgin.
[quote comment="343350"]
I think you’ll find it is 6.75/10, not 3.3, no one uses the adsl version any more.
Look, unlimited 20meg broadband, 50meg soon. The only cable isp in the uk. You can go wrong with virgin, and they do NOT shape traffic, unless you download over 3gb between 7pm-9pm, then you are resitricted to 5meg for 10 hours[/quote]
They restrict you permanently if you’re a “excessive” user, but they refuse to state how much excessive is. I’ve not had speeds over 5meg for months now, and I couldn’t possibly still be an excessive user anymore, because it’s so slow that I can only download about 1gb per day.
How the fuck is this yob the CEO of a major company? This is the last person I would want to be in charge of my isp.
Don’t forget that Virgin Media is just a brand name bought to stick on top of the company, which is actually a merged company made up of NTL and Telewest.
These firms had such bad reputations they had to franchise a new name, presumably to trick people into thinking the company is owned by Virgin. The underlying service is still the same, IE utterly utterly shit.
i dont care if they going to get 50 or 100 meg soon, if they going to ignore the NN principle they arent worth it, after all is easy to improve your broadband if you going to dedicate it only to the few websites that can pay, and second if they have to put restrictions on the amount of data you can download at any time, then they already arent worth the trouble of using their services
Neil Berkett is a cunt.
Do you guys remember the “toywar”? It’s an example how to eliminate corporate arrogance from the web. eToys.com in that particular case.
Here is a somewhat outdated docu about hacktivism including the toywar. It’s 55min/460MB at: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/media/video/information-war.m4v
The web site is in german but the film is in english. The etoy story is between minutes 16 and 22 of the film. Good for morale.
hey guys from UK, check if u have BE around where u live. the best ( unlimited, very fast, very cheap and non-stop line ). Be unlimited is also according to some reviews the best. Two of my friends ( Camden, Clapham ) in Lon have it. Aol if of course the worst lol. Virgin became too fat and greedy.
[quote comment="345961"][quote comment="345524"]
Virgin Media broadband was rubbish. Traffic managed after reaching a ludicrously low daily limit, and frequently down so I had no connection at all. If you want to complain, it means calling a rip off premium rate number. I’m glad I ditched them.[/quote]
Virgin allow you download as much as you want. It does not apply traffic shaping between the hours of 9pm and 4pm the following day. 19 hours of unshaped downloading.
If your download speeds seem slow maybe the fault lies with your PC.
Are you using the ethernet connection or wireless and USB? Have you a firewall running?
Are you on a Virgin fibre optic connection?[/quote]
for me, if I download around about 100MB during the day, the speed drops by about 80% from about 5pm until 9pm for that day only, so thats about in line with whats said above.
VOIP requires practically no bandwidth anyway, so your problem has to be something else
But last year, my connection dropped to less than dial up speeds and constantly dropped out altogether, calling virgin didnt do any good, but my dad works near one of Virgins offices, so he went in through a ’staff only’ door, and wandered round til he found someone, they couldnt find a problem at their end, so they gave him a number to get a free direct line to phone them.
so he called them, and arranged for a technician to visit a week later, a week later, no one came. he called virgin again, and he was told that they forgot to tell someone to come, and the soonest free slot was 2 weeks away.
he called virin again and told them that he wanted to leave them, and told them why. 15 minutes later a manager phoned him back. and a technician visited us at 8:00 the very next morning, and found that all we needed was a new modem.
[quote comment="347103"]How the fuck is this yob the CEO of a major company? This is the last person I would want to be in charge of my isp.[/quote]
The Cog dictionary of bitter and ironic truths of life, defines a ‘CEO’ as:
“A very rich and arrogant asshole, often to be found out of touch of reality and searching for fresh victims to bleed dry”
This shows the sickening greed of Virgin Media and their “load of bollocks&