‘Wanted’ P2P Pre-Releaser Gets 2 Year Jail Sentence
Written by enigmax on December 17, 2008A man who added custom subtitles to a pirated copy of the movie ‘Wanted’ and uploaded it to a file-sharing network has been sentenced. Kazushi Hirata, who uploaded the movie in advance of its Japanese theatrical release, received a 2 year suspended jail sentence.
All around the world, people who pre-release media onto the Internet face the prospect of harsh treatment if caught. The crew at EliteTorrents felt the full force of the DOJ for their uploading of Star Wars: Episode III, the uploaders on OiNK face uncertainty as their criminal trial is delayed again, and Kevin Cogill, the Chinese Democracy uploader, faces a year of confinement.
In September we reported that a Japanese man had been caught uploading the movie ‘Wanted’ before its Japanese theatrical release. Kazushi Hirata, a 33 year old from the city of Sendai, had painstakingly added Japanese subtitling to the movie, before uploading it to the Winny network. Following a complaint from Japan’s answer to the MPAA (Japan and International Motion Picture Copyright Association), Hirata was tracked down by the Kyoto Prefectural Police, the same department responsible for the 2004 arrest of Isamu Kaneko, the creator of the Winny software.
Less than a month after his September 20th arrest, November 11th saw Hirata pleading guilty to violating Japan’s copyright laws and faced the prospect of up to 10 years jail and a $95,000 fine. Yesterday the court came back with its sentencing decision.
Hirata was sentenced to two years in prison, suspended for three years.
“The conviction sends an important message about the illegality of movie piracy,” said Jimca executive director Yasutaka Iiyama adding, “Respect for intellectual property rights is critical to Japan’s economy and cultural identity.”
The arrest of Mr Hirata is believed to be the first in Japan relating to the uploading of a pre-release movie.
Previously: The Mighty ShareReactor Returns – Now With Added Torrents
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85 Responses
I have a feeling that it is quite accurate that Japan is almost a puppet state of the U.S. It would figure that such a thing like this would happen.
Still, it is definitely unjust, and still, something must be done about it. For example, by spreading around the sub-titled version, etc.
Roze
@1 he got off scot free u dick !! (suspended sentence)
thats strange the film “Seven pounds” is widely available at its not out until Dec 19, 2008
@2 king
Ah, I must have missed that “suspended” word.
I guess that “Gets 2 Year Jail Sentence” may have misled me.
In any case, it was my guess, given its past of arresting Winny users, arresting Isamu Kaneko, &c.
Of course, the legal system in Japan is quite selective and irregular – at least that is what I gather from past accounts of its legal system.
Still, it is the case that there is nothing so much “pre-release” about it as the fact that it was released in another country, but not released in one’s own country – and this kind of thing happens all the time. In fact, I do not think that it has even happened in the U.S.
Roze
Torrent Soldier………;0)
So what? Suspended sentence is not a sentence you muppet? It’s still unjust and the case should have been dismissed and those morons sued for wasting court’s time. All this bullshit regarding intellectual “property” must come to an end since the whole concept came up in the heads of some muppets with no wisdom.
But the movie has subtitles, it is now a completely different thing. How much do you need to change it to be a different thing. I bet if you embedded the subs into the movie that the 1s and 0s that make up the movie would be changed enough to say its technically not your movie and im copyrighting this sequence of 1s and 0s :D. Badly written copyright laws means shit time for them to:D
@7 Jacob
Well, the thing is, in Japan, the there is a ton of underground “fan-works” i. e. derivative works done by editing previous works, or by creating an entirely new work based on something already there – and nobody gets convicted for copyright infringement for that. In addition, nobody gets convicted for copyright violation for hosting copyrighted images if it is on a bulletin board – like Futaba Channel. All of these facts lead me to conclude that law in Japan – especially copyright law – is quite anomalous, and is enforced purely on the urging of foreign parties.
Roze
Free his willy… um.. winny… umm free “Kazushi Hirata”, we need him to get his time traveling powers back in the next Heroes episode…
J/K (joking aside,the show sucks now though..)
On a more serious note, this is just the MAFIAA (Japan branch) trying to spread fear by getting a scapegoat.
For this one caught guy, how many dont? If any casino had these kind of odds their tables would be empty.
Share share share and bring those mofo’s down from their high horses.
Cheers!
http://www.eZee.se/funnies/
From my experience, (experienced) fansubbers are better than anything official available, because of the simple reason that those who do it for nothing do it out of love, rather than a single translator who knows the relevant languages marginally better than the rest of the team.
I would personally love to see a company hire up a fansubbing group lock stock and barrel. They’d be bringing in a group who love what they do, the fans who find new things from what’s translated by them. If only companies could see past the draconian copyright laws.
If you don’t want to get caught, don’t upload things or download things that are still making money. Pre-releases and new releases are heavily monitored. For example, once a movie’s dvd stops making money I doubt they will care as seriously as when its still in theaters. Just a thought :)
@9 Dec 18, 2008 at 01:42 by Anonymous
There is a big disadvantage for any fan-subtitle-r to be hired: first, one is no longer doing it out of love, but rather for mone; second, one would have to give up the rights to the translation to the company, so that one would no longer be able to give the translated version freely.
Roze
@10 Dec 18, 2008 at 01:51 by duh
There is nothing really pre-release about it. It has already been released in another country. It is similar to this:
http://torrentfreak.com/europe-gets-prison-break-fix-via-bittorrent-080909/
In fact, unofficially releasing something in one country, that has not been released in another country is quite common. This is the only case that I know of where someone is prosecuted for CREATING the subtitles.
Roze
shit movie, shit country.
Umm, last I checked, uploading and downloading (sharing) copyrighted material, regardless if you alter it, is still a crime. Not much of what we do in the world of BitTorrent is legal. Anyone who thinks it is “unjust” for getting in trouble for illegally distributing media that they don’t own, is clearly delusional. Get a grip.
@13 Dec 18, 2008 at 02:22 by assnonymous
You are the one who needs to get a grip. It is clearly unreasonable, especially since
1. it is altered. This amounts to CENSORSHIP of the alterations – since it effectively bans the altered one.
2. it was already released in another country, and has clearly not been released in its country. The idea that anyone is “losing money” is clearly ridiculous since there was no alternative to begin with.
Roze
It’s just sad how so many people think that they are entitled to something for nothing. MPAA needs to pressure the US congress for criminal sanctions of illegal downloaders.
“It?s just sad how so many people think that they are entitled to something for nothing. MPAA needs to pressure the US congress for criminal sanctions of illegal downloaders.”
Entitled? I don’t see how taking on the burden of sub-titling a movie and doing a service to everyone like that is any “entitlement.” The person receiving the sentence is not an illegal downloader himself – he did the hard work of sub-titling the movie. I don’t see how that is any feeling of “entitlement.” You clearly do not know what you are talking about.
Roze
roze get your tits out!
“Entitled? I don’t see how taking on the burden of sub-titling a movie and doing a service to everyone like that is any “entitlement.” The person receiving the sentence is not an illegal downloader himself – he did the hard work of sub-titling the movie. I don’t see how that is any feeling of “entitlement.” You clearly do not know what you are talking about.”
If you believe you are entitled to take other people’s work, alter it, and then pass it out to anyone who wants it for free then you have no moral or ethical sensibility.
If I take on the hard work of breaking into your online bank account and transferring the funds to random citizens then I should be commended for it under your code of ethics.
@20 Eric
Unlike your situation, fan-subbing helps many people and harms nobody. Creating alterations is valuable creative work in its own right – especially when it is released more quickly and better than the “official” translation. The difference between taking away someone’s money, and creating one’s own alterations is quite obvious, and it is amazing how blind you are to it.
Roze
Moreover, Eric you are clearly arguing that all parodies ought to be made illegal. Clearly lunatic.
Uh oh, Roze is on her horse of moral superiority. This has nothing to do with censorship you pleb. The film was prerelease IN HIS COUNTRY, you know where that countries laws apply to him, whether it had been released in antoher country is of no relevence. Stop trying to candy coat the god damn issue and stand up like a human being and admit what you do, dont try and use non existant psuedo law come justification to gloss over you actions. I steal steal, he stole stuff, we all steal stuff, well except Roze, cause she’s fighting censorship and shit.
I hate to say it, but Roze, you are pretty retarded. I am a big fan of the BitTorrent networks and all the cool stuff I can download, but it is 100% illegal in countries that have copyright laws.
How can you possibly think this guy did nothing illegal just because he “took on the burden of sub-titling a movie?” It’s not his job to do it, he didn’t do it for the owner of the movie (the studio that produced it), and he didn’t do it for his own entertainment. He most likely downloaded a copy of the movie or acquired it via other illegal means, then he modified it and distributed it illegally. If he modified it for his own pleasure that would’ve been fine, but he chose to distribute it which made it a crime. You cannot redistribute copyrighted material, modified or not, without the express consent of the copyright owner.
Why do you think musicians have to get permission to use other musicians music and pay them royalties and give them credit?
This has nothing to do with censorship, and you even making that connection is ridiculous.
You clearly do not know what you are talking about.
@23 stfu
You got it automatically wrong when you said that all fan-subbers, (this inevitably includes all anime fan-subbers and all manga & doujinshi scanlators, and all the Greek fan-subbers, and all torrents in places where there is no official version available, &c.) ought to be sent to prison. Fact is that sending people to prison for nothing wrong is just unacceptable. If that is “moral superiority” to you, then how would you like it if you were sent off to prison?
The movie was already available, untranslated. It was clearly already download-able already through torrent sites like The Pirate Bay. This guy just translated it. If you insist that a “pre-release” is any release in a country where it is not officially released, then you should count most everything on torrent sites “pre-release” because most everything is not released in all countries at once. In fact, there has been several articles on Torrent Freak about how BitTorrent helped people access things which were otherwise inaccessible due to not being released quickly.
Roze
So? Just becuase someone in another country illegaly uploaded it does not automagically make legal in other countries, what part of that don’t you understand. Indeed alot of content on bittorrent is indeed “pre-release”, what’s your point? They still crack down harder on it where possible becuase it screws up their revenue generation from staggered release dates, its the whole reason the retards stuck region coding on dvds.
The dude took a chance and he failed. He got lucky and got off with a suspended sentence, great for him as long as he keeps his nose clean. They should make any media be it game, music or movie available to everyone at the same time, people have been saying that for years, long before old Bram thought up bittorrent, but guess what, they dont give a crap. Its their stuff, they can do what they like with it when they like in whatever country they like and just because you disagree with that does not change a damn thing. Never has, never will. If you want to download crap, download it, do what ever you like with it, but dont whine if you are unlucky enough to get caught doing it.
You know they ain’t going to suddenly decide “oh you know what, lets not fight these pesky pirates any more its a waste of time”, the day that happens is the day they stop making movies and all that other good stuff you recon people shouldn’t have to pay for. Fihgting for copyright reform is one thing, but fighting for your right to be a freetard just makes you look like a moron who cannot be taken seriously, and you do nothing to help the cause.
Eric, if your so concerned, stop being involved in the business and become a plumber.
The movie industry is full of shit. They continue to make millions, piracy is doing stuff all to their profits.
If you don’t want to deal with piracy get out and do something else. I bet you they will not stop making films, the money is too easy and too big.
Roze, you are thick as pig shit. I NEVER said anyone should be sent to prison, not fansubbers, not downloaders, NO ONE. Learn to read, seriously, or GTFO.
“Its their stuff, they can do what they like with it when they like in whatever country they like and just because you disagree with that does not change a damn thing.”
That’s the most retarded thing you’ve ever said. No, it’s not their stuff, copyright creates only the illusion that it is. If they don’t want to do things well, then it should be criminal to make it better. Moreover, he didn’t even really release it – he only did the translations – which, under copyright, belong solely to him. The only “violation” he did was his one possible download and his one possible upload – neither of which were proven. Now, I will say a point that should never have been needed to say, but which clearly needs to be said to a moron like you: translation is not the same thing as stealing. You’re just saying crazy things, akin to saying that translating Nietzsche’s work to English is stealing.
Thing is, if they want to make it inaccessible to certain people due to geographic location, the fact is, that should never have been a right. I don’t see how such a right could ever help humanity. Perhaps it may make sense in your deluded mind, though. Torrents have been helping to correct this problem by allowing people to access it as early as its earliest release date all around the world.
Mind you, this kind of thing has been happening in the United States for a long time, and has never been prosecuted. Heck, it is even hosted in many big sites.
Here are some examples:
animesuki (Top-level domain: com)
anime-kraze (TLD: org)
lunaranime (TLD: org)
Now tell those people that they are stealing and that they should be shut down.
Fan-subbing is work that benefits humanity, as is all derivative works, since it is creative work itself. Unlike, for example, copyright law, which seeks to destroy it.
Roze
Al this for “Wanted” ?
This movie is total crap, not worth a penny.
@27 Dec 18, 2008 at 05:16 by stfu
Close enough. You said something to the effect of “doing translation work without being paid is the same thing as stealing and those who do so ought to be punished.” Yeah, that sounds logical…
Roze
@stfu
“Its their stuff, they can do what they like”
Not anymore it isn’t, and no they can’t. They’re no longer the ones in control of media.
We are.
Pitty they’re too stupid to realize it, or else they could actually coexist with us instead of waging their one-sided little war against progress. But hey, what else is a dinosaur gonna do?
@25 stfu
Also, this should have been said, as it was a lot simpler than what I have said before:
“they can do what they like with it when they like in whatever country they like and just because you disagree with that does not change a damn thing”
No, they shouldn’t have absolute control over culture like that. The people should. Culture should be more democratic. That is all.
Roze
2 years for a 2 hour movie?
“Less than a month after his September 20th arrest, November 11th saw [...]”
That’s almost two months for me.
Jacob : “But the movie has subtitles, it is now a completely different thing.”
Everything but the subtitles.
“How much do you need to change it to be a different thing. I bet if you embedded the subs into the movie that the 1s and 0s that make up the movie would be changed enough to say its technically not your movie and im copyrighting this sequence of 1s and 0s”
You obviously have no idea about much: the pirated version without subtitles is a completely different arrangment of 1s and 0s in the first place without adding subtitles. Your confusing medium with content.
Your comments seem to get increasingly shrill and retarded.
Roze: “In addition, nobody gets convicted for copyright violation for hosting copyrighted images if it is on a bulletin board – like Futaba Channel.”
That proves precisely jack shit. You seem to be implying that because no one is convicted it is therefore not illegal.
“All of these facts lead me to conclude that law in Japan – especially copyright law – is quite anomalous, and is enforced purely on the urging of foreign parties.”
Have you got any more evidence for this outrageous claim? Because that’s a hell of a conclusion to draw just based on those facts. The fact that it may have been reported by foreign entities has no bearing on whether it’s illegal in Japan or not.
It seems to me that the fact that this man produced subtitles is a complete non-issue as far as his prosecution goes – he transmitted a copyrighted film. If he’d uploaded subtitles only, without the film, he may be have not been arrested.
“There is a big disadvantage for any fan-subtitle-r to be hired: first, one is no longer doing it out of love,…”
You have a very warped view of what “money” can do: why the hell would the fact that they get paid have any bearing on how much a subtitle producer enjoyed what they are doing? I think you are a person who needs to learn to work with money and not fear it: it is a fact that almost all profesional artists work for money, usually on a commission basis and this has been the case for many hundreds of years. Most artists still love what they do despite this. If you truly feel this way: that any artistic endouver is destroyed by money then you must have a very small amount of art that you can appreciate.
I have to disagree with people saying fan subtitlers are on the whole better than official subtitlers: in my experience fan subtitles can be really, really bad: offering “word for word” translations that no longer makes grammatical sense in English, or reads in a very “awkward” or “inelegant” manner (ie. an English speaker would never use a phrase in that way and the same meaning can be conveyed by using a different phrase), non-speech sounds are sometimes “subtitled” (eg. “wind blows, bells ring”). I know French and Japanese somewhat fluently and I usually watch French and Jap films with subtitles because sometimes I cannot understand everything.
November 11th is less than a month after September 20th?!
It’s interesting how low level cyber criminals justify their actions in the same ways as low level street criminals-they deserve what they got!
Well, society will always have leeches who suck blood and don’t contribute anything. I guess it makes little difference whether they are sucking at the public trough by spending their useless lives in prison. I guess the rest of us can just read about the few movie pirates who get arrested and say-they deserve what they got.
In the anti-piracy war pirates will WIN! People start sharing files embedded in the Creative Commons images and no force on the world can stop them: http://stegoshare.sf.net
I personaly hate the “different release date for different countries” bullocks.
In todays age, releasing games and movies in one country weeks or months after another is just retarded and asking for people to get their hands on it another way.
As for pre-releases in general, the reason why in some cases its harshly opposed and others not even protested against is because in quite a few cases, the artists or publishers are using pre-release as stealthed promotional tool.
As for this sentence, considering Japan is home to some of the biggest mega-corps, it isn’t surprising that their influence on law and trials is greater then elsewhere.
2 arrested + years for uploading a single movie? what the … ? what happens to people uploading hundreds of files not to mention sceners in japan? 10 years torture + death penalty? a single movie … in western countries that costs you a few hundred bucks if it can be prosecuted at all
“Well, society will always have leeches who suck blood and don’t contribute anything.”
You lose right there. Creating subtitles and uploading it for everyone is not not contributing anything.
“Have you got any more evidence for this outrageous claim?”
Look at the innumerable doujinshi in Japan.
“You seem to be implying that because no one is convicted it is therefore not illegal.”
I am implying that the law is selecitvely enforced – that sometimes, the law is completely ignored and the breaking of it is accepted in Japan (like it should be), and other times, like at the urging of foreign companies, it is imposed upon people very much.
“I think you are a person who needs to learn to work with money and not fear it: it is a fact that almost all profesional artists work for money, usually on a commission basis and this has been the case for many hundreds of years.”
So you are saying that those who have the drive to work not for money should somehow be punished. Yeah, that makes perfect sense…
Roze
Also,
“he transmitted a copyrighted film”
How is that harming anybody? The fact is that there was no legal alternative to begin with – to say that it was harming anybody’s revenue stream is plainly ludicrous.
Roze
“intellectual property rights” are bullshit. Many people in the piracy community don’t believe in a basic human right to the control of distribution of your work and it’s not in the declaration of human rights. it’s a belief that these rights don’t exist that make us feel no guilt when pirating movies and such because it’s more convenient or we don’t have much $ at the moment. but ours is one of the few beliefs you can be sue for having. what the hell is that? so, Jeremiah Wright can believe that all white people are evil, or the Neo-nazis that Jews and blacks are lower life-forms, but we can’t legally believe that IP rights don’t exist? wtf?
What he did was illegal and morally dubious. That does not mean he deserves any type of sentence suspended or otherwise, especially 2 years.
A fine and some community service would be far more fitting for the crime rather than being treated in the same light as violent criminals.
I hope he manages to keep himself out of any trouble for the next few years.
So you don’t believe that patents, copyrights, or trademarks, and any form of intellectual property is invalid because they are bullshit.
If you really want to protest you should break the law and turn yourself in to the police, give a sworn statement as to why the law your broke was unjust, then state your objections to the judge.
Oh, you’re not the martyr type. Yeah, that seems to be the case with most criminals, unwilling to stand up for their beliefs.
@43 Dec 18, 2008 at 16:52 by Anonymous
“basic human right to the control of distribution”
As if somehow, it was a “basic human right” to tyrannize over everybody in regards to what people do with a work.
Of course, this throws the entire idea of “copyright to give monetary incentive to artists” out the window. It is certainly not any incentive – it is just control, control, control.
Just so you know, people download anime fansubs all the time – before they are released in English, and nobody complains about them. Just to show how moronic you are.
Also, “intellectual property rights” never actually did exist in the first place. Nothing in copyright, trademark, or patents did anything ever say that it was “property.” It is simply copyright and copyright violation – not property. It was something that the industry invented to confuse the issue – and just shows how full of BS you are.
Roze
“Yeah, that seems to be the case with most criminals, unwilling to stand up for their beliefs.”
It is indeed a sad state of affairs that nobody seems to care so much about doing what is right. Indeed, nobody does seem to want to organize, and protest this thing. However, there is at least one country in this world where there is at least some mobilization – Sweden, with its Piratbyran, and Pirate Party.
“Oh, you’re not the martyr type.”
Of course I am not. That is why I call for someone else to be the martyr – someone with much less to lose. For people with more to lose, it is much better to be the prudent type, planning things out to be most effective
Roze
Err, use Freenet? q; -) =
Eric the sockpuppet: “It’s interesting how low level cyber criminals justify their actions in the same ways as low level street criminals-they deserve what they got!”
Don’t badmouth criminals. As a hired plant, you’re far, far lower than they are.
You’re somewhere down there with dung beetles, liver flukes, and Johnnie Cochran.
Eric the sockpuppet: “Well, society will always have leeches who suck blood and don’t contribute anything.”
Yup.
Bloodsucking leeches like the MPAA, the RIAA, the IFPI… The list goes on and on.
Speaking of which, how are your employers? Say HI to Dan Glickman for me.
Eric the sockpuppet: “I guess the rest of us can just read about the few movie pirates who get arrested and say-they deserve what they got.
Hahahah.
See, this why viral marketters are such a blast. They always have these massive egos and fancy themselves as grandoise manipulators of the unwashed masses, but in reality, they’re all dumb as a stump.
A suspended sentence doesn’t really do anything except sit there and sound scary. Kazushi Hirata got away scott free.
So you’re saying that filesharers deserve to be caught, but then get away with it.
U R SMERT!
The MAFIAA should dock your pay for that little brainfart, but then again, they’re even dumber than you are.
After all, they’re the ones who hired you.
Eric the sockpuppet: “So you don’t believe that patents, copyrights, or trademarks, and any form of intellectual property is invalid because they are bullshit.”
Oh, LOL.
Do you even realize in that paragraph up there, you’re saying any form of intellectual property is bullshit?
I almost feel sorry for the MAFIAA. Hiring you was like taking their money and then just throwing it down a toilet.
Some of you people are just plain stupid. You can’t read and comprehension is but s fleeting memory if you ever had it in the first place. I bet none of you produce jack shit. I bet none of you have contributed a damn thing. What you want id for artists to be your slaves. You dont want to pay them for shit becuase as far as you are concerned they have no right to benefit from their work. As far as you are concerned YOU are the only one who has that right. You do not care are about reform, you only care about your own greed. You are worse than the MAFFIA.
Some of us are realists. Some of us do not agree with the law but at least are aware of it, and becuase of that we are some how a plant? You are delusional. You make shit up to suit yourselves and you ingnore cold hard fact in favour of utopian ideal which doesn’t even exsist, never has existed and as long as you bunch of retards are around won’t ever exist. You are the fly in the ointment. You are killing any chance of proper fair reform becuse you are self centered and ignorant.
Roze, you are just full of shit full stop. It’s been a while since I’ve personaly seen anyone spout such utter crap so consistantly they’ve actually adopted it as their reality. You and your ilk are the reason the industry is so spiteful towards filesharing. You’re like a cancerous lesion stuck on the anus of p2p. You spread nothing but disinformation. Hell I woundn’t be surprised if you were a plant, an agent provocateur who’s sole job it is to convince people that its ok to do what they do, when it is not, and not because I say it is not, but becuase the law says it is not. If you take Retard Roze’s advice and fight the law by breaking it, dont complain when your ass gets pwnd by the law, its as simple as that. There are better ways of doing shit that stooping to the level of a 10 year old, but then most of you probably have the intelect of a 10 year old.
As a digital artist, I realized long ago that whatever I create is GONE the second it hits the web. The only problem I can’t stand is someone trying to claim they created it. I only expect cash from physical media that I make and sell. In today’s world anything else seems silly.
oh noes imma “prereleasing” a movie as i’m typing! (that is leeching a torrent that isn’t/won’t be in cinema round here). see you in jail
Hey, stfu? Why don’t you GTFO?
MAFIAA plant.
“You do not care are about reform”
It is sad that many do not, but at least I do. It would be good for most others to care about reform.
“What you want id for artists to be your slaves.”
Eh… no. How about, “what we want is for the freedom of art, in doing things like editing other’s works, &c.”
“becuase of that we are some how a plant?”
Yes
“You are delusional.”
Speak for yourself.
“Roze, you are just full of sh** full stop.”
How is it reasonable to throw all anime fan-subbers into prison? How about you actually try (and inevitably fail) to prove your point instead of randomly saying “I’m right, you’re wrong, just cause I said so.”
“There are better ways of doing shit that stooping to the level of a 10 year old”
Thoreau wasn’t 10 years old when he wrote “Civil Disobedience.”
Roze
stfu: “What you want id for artists to be your slaves.”
Whoops, you’re confusing us with the MAFIAA. Try again.
stfu: “Some of us do not agree with the law but at least are aware of it, and becuase of that we are some how a plant?”
No, you’re a plant because you were hired to come here. Just as the MAFIAA ruitinely has people spreading fake files and bad torrents, they also keep monkeys like you on their payroll in a worthless effort to demonize filesharing and shape public sentiment in their favour.
stfu: “If you take Retard Roze’s advice and fight the law by breaking it, dont complain when your ass gets pwnd by the law”
Haha, wow.
The likelyhood of getting into any sort of legal trouble for filesharing is so slim that it’s fucking ludicrous to lose sleep over. More people die from slipping and falling in their own showers every year than are prosecuted for filesharing.
So if you don’t want to blow your cover as a hired plant, don’t try to scare people by going around saying “Fileshare at your own risk, CAUSE YOU COULD BE ARRESTED!!!!!” while moaning and rattling chains.
The MAFIAA should fire you on the spot for that sorry little display, and consider hiring somebody more competent. Like a maybe a chimp.
BTW, loved the geek-rage. I could picture you shaking with fury as you typed that last comment(#52). Did the pwant get his ego bwuised? Aww. :(
“How is it reasonable to throw all anime fan-subbers into prison? ”
————————————–
It’s not.
Being a virginal, zitty, loser is not a crime.
This guy will be sharing again in no time.
@ mafiaa plant
You got pwned hahahahahahaha
Only people who want artists to be slaves is you & your employers at the mafiaa.
@58 Dec 19, 2008 at 01:51 by Anonymous
“Being a virginal, zitty, loser is not a crime.”
Indeed, not a crime. Some people, however (see the comments in this article), think that it is a crime that merits a 2 year prison sentence, even if it is suspended. I don’t know about you, but I think that such a move would be unpopular, especially since anime fan-subbing is well established in the English-speaking world. Some people (like stfu and Eric here) seem to think that this is what should happen. Perhaps these two (stfu and Eric) should go complain directly to them instead – and see what kind of response that they get.
Roze
@2
Do you know what a suspended sentence means?
LOL, the sentence was suspended so he got off with a mere slap on the wrist! good for him!
Jess
privacy.de.tc
Good job police! :)
Clean out the criminal scum of the internet!
I’m a filmmaker. It’s what I love to do. Right now I’m making my first documentary and narrative short in my spare time. I have to work a crappy 9-5 job I hate to pay for things like rent, food, clothes, entertainment… basically to support my life. Do you think I want to do it this way for my whole life? No, I want to be able to do what I love — make movies — and get sell them so I can get paid for it and not have that crappy day job. Do you see why intellectual property laws are important to me? You want to watch these great movies that cost millions to make but you expect us movie makers to do it for free? I mean, if you don’t understand that, then I don’t know what to say.
“I hate to pay for things like rent, food, clothes, entertainment? basically to support my life.”
So you want to live off of other people. Now stop being such a leech and actually contribute to society.
There is no right to make a profit. Profits are earned – it is not something that everybody has a right to. If you don’t have any success, then that is your fault – perhaps you made a crappy film that nobody liked, or something. Just because you make a single film, doesn’t mean that everybody has to bow down to you and worship you and give you all sorts of money so that you don’t have to work anymore and be a slouch. If other people do not give you money, then it is you, not other people, who did something wrong.
For example, some bands make money through live performances, &c. If you cannot find a working business model, and find that the old one fails, then it is up to YOU to find a new one.
Roze
Roze, I don’t comprehend how you live if not off other people? Do you have a job? If so, you live off other people. Are you supported by the state? If so, you live off other people. Are you supported by your parents? If so, you are living off other people. About the only way your commentary makes sense is if you are some Ted Kaczynski type living in a cabin and eschewing both society and money and since you are commenting on the internet that hypothesis appears weak.
Economies are entirely built upon living off other people. Your entire argument is non-sequitur. Digital does not mean free and as a programmer, piracy greatly concerns me as it deters me from investing much of my time in creative activities which could be marketed in favor of working at a company for a regular living wage. We are far beyond the patron model of art. How do you suggest artists get compensated for their work? I do not suggest that all art is worthwhile or worthy of compensation; however, in your model no one gets compensated for anything and anarchy is the norm. Such a society would utterly suck so grow up and pay to play.
@66 Bob
If you had paid any attention, I was saying that one earns money off of other people, and government does not merely give welfare – as #64 Dec 19, 2008 at 18:02 by Anonymous was very close to advocating.
“How do you suggest artists get compensated for their work?”
I suggest the review model. Artist get compensated for their work by receiving feedback from people who see it. See, for example, the website archiveofourown (top-level domain: org).
Roze
@66 Bob
Moreover, Bob, if you did not notice it yet, this translator translated the movie all by himself without being paid for it. There is enough drive to do work like this already for the purpose of culture.
Roze
@ myself,
sacrifices have to be made to preserve freedom,
see you around, downloading that next pre-release
Roze,
Wanted is trash. It may be one of the worst movies ever produced, but I generally expected that which is why I didn’t see it in the movie theater. I watched it though and I paid to do so.
Is it your position that I should be refunded my money or should I have simply not paid to see it and I should only pay if I like it? That is not a viable business model for any industry other than entertainment and is only viable now with the high availability of media. Why is digital media so special in this regard? Should you be allowed to take home clothes from a clothing store for free and pay only if they look good on you at a party?
With regard to your live concert argument, applying the same logic suggests that patrons get to see the concerts for free and give some amount of money if they feel like it. How can a band tour purely on optional donations? It takes the assurance of ticket sales and concessions to secure a venue in the first place. Phish and the Greatful Dead both encouraged bootlegging, but you still had to buy the ticket to get in the show. Most of the board tracks were of such higher quality that if a set was really good, it was worth it to pick up the board track and replace the bootleg; however, many board tracks were never pressed to media so a bootleg was nice to have and the bootlegs allowed them to draw larger audiences by distributing their music is a viral channel.
I stopped making bootleg software twenty years ago when I realized that by contributing money I encourage the software industry and make it possible for future development. I also wanted to be a professional programmer so bootlegging would be against my best interests. I could also justify bootlegging based upon scarcity of resources as it was incredibly hard to get titles. Now, it is the opposite condition.
Granted, many companies now make subpar products and I avoid corporate products from say EA because they have lost sight of their constituency and they have pretty much become a money mill. Is the torrent culture a method of protest or is it just a self-serving means to get free stuff?
This is the question I have been trying to resolve personally by observing my friends. They seem to just do it so they don’t have to pay and go somewhere to participate or they won’t bother to program a DVR. The problems I had and the impact on my business due to torrenting was caused by my roommate eating all the bandwidth all the time when I consistently needed access to RDC. It became contentious to the point that I had to always check to see if his computer was on when I needed to work. I basically stopped trusting his word because he actually didn’t know whether or not he was downloading.
Due to these reasons, I just don’t torrent. I am not opposed to the method of distribution or to the desire to consume media in privacy; however, I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not. It just seems to be a case of special pleading since digital media is so accessible.
@70 Bob
The Pirate Bay has been here for a long time – and people still pay for stuff. That is a sure indication that it does not harm anything whatsoever.
True, it does seem that much of torrenting is “getting stuff” and not caring about protesting – but the fault lies not in the fact that they are getting stuff, but rather that they are not protesting.
“I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not.”
Participation is the compensation – the compensation is for the audience to speak back to the original producer – either in the form of reviews, or by creating their own derivative works, such as translations.
After all, you see here that this person did this translation for no monetary compensation. Now why do you think that he did that?
Roze
The ignorance displayed here is astounding. This dude broke the law. Illegally downloading and distributing copyrighted material is breaking the law. What happens when you break the law? Why is everyone so surprised?
As for all this “We’re oppressed by the big corporations!” bullshit, you’re downright insane. These people make a product. A PRODUCT. A product that you enjoy. To make this product, they invest time and money, in hopes of getting some kind of return. If you made a movie yourself, investing millions and years into its production, wouldn’t you have a problem if someone took that product for free after it was completed? It doesn’t matter if they still make money. If it wasn’t for these guys, you wouldn’t have this product to enjoy and steal in the first place. I don’t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry. Not to mention the fact that you’re still breaking the law. Just because it’s become “accepted” to download and distribute someone else’s hard work doesn’t mean it’s not against the law. So don’t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.
By the way, in terms of a product, a movie is the same as say… an ice cream cone. You don’t take a bunch of ice cream cones from a vendor and give them to a bunch of random people for free. And you certainly don’t pay for an ice cream cone by “reviewing” it.
‘Oh yeah, that was a great ice cream cone, eh, I’m glad you enjoyed it!’ says the ice cream man, ‘now I can rest assured that I made a great ice cream cone while I can’t pay my bills! Don’t worry, the satisfaction of providing a great ice cream cone is compensation enough for me!’
Yeah, that would never fucking happen. Your review idea is complete and utter bullshit.
But if the translator is faithful to the content, the translator is not creating original work and is merely an adjunct to the creative process. If I labored for three years on a project with no compensation and focused entirely on the project, I would be destitute and lose my house. I simply can’t afford to spend that amount of creative effort for nothing more than boos or applause and therefore I don’t. Instead I continue my education and practice my trade in order to increase my value to a company. The translator’s creative input was a week or two of using his knowledge. Why should the translator be compensated at all especially when the translator was not asked to by the producer? My guess is the translator thought the movie was either singularly awesome or ridiculous and translated the movie to show to those he knew that couldn’t speak English or French or whatever source language the movie was copied from. You are arguing that media is the property of the culture once it is released which is a chicken and egg argument, ie without culture there is no media and without media there is no culture. Well, without compensation, there are no professional artists. Extending this to the chicken and egg proposition appears to cause our culture to wither and stagnate, so we generally need professional artists for a strong culture. “Art for art sake” is trite and will never pay the bills.
“If you made a movie yourself, investing millions and years into its production, wouldn?t you have a problem if someone took that product for free after it was completed?”
Simple answer: no.
“I don?t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry.”
You’re only angry because you are dead wrong.
“Not to mention the fact that you?re still breaking the law.”
Laws do not determine morality.
“So don?t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.”
Again, laws do not determine morality – and the action of an immoral law is reason enough to get bent out of shape.
“By the way, in terms of a product, a movie is the same as say? an ice cream cone.”
No, it isn’t.
“I simply can?t afford to spend that amount of creative effort for nothing more than boos or applause and therefore I don?t.”
No, in response to the previous two above quotations, here is this:
Why do you think people take up the effort to write speeches, or form words into sentences in everyday conversation? The fact of the matter is that it is useful to do so in order to communicate to others, so that in some way, what one says figures into the other person’s minds, and so that the other person might also respond back. Creative work, in particular, is a special kind of communication, using fiction or non-fiction to communicate between people. That is the compensation – and it is such tyrannical limitations on what people can do with such culture that stagnates culture, not freedom.
As I have said, if you hate fan-subs so much, then why don’t you complain to the anime fan-subbers directly? There are plenty around – why don’t you tell them that what they are doing is immoral?
Roze
OK! OK!
This Guy was stupid! I personally have NO quibbles with p2p sites!but if your going to upload a film,music, or whatever (shall we say modified) then surely your asking for trouble?.
To be honest here, (as above)have to say YES he got of lightly! but the copyright laws are there!
YOU TAKE YOUR CHOICE!
Ta!
“Again, laws do not determine morality – and the action of an immoral law is reason enough to get bent out of shape.”
Please, just clear this up for me Roze so I have a proper understanding of your position… Is it your contention that Intellectual Property law is immoral and that monetization of IP is unjust?
“Participation is the compensation – the compensation is for the audience to speak back to the original producer – either in the form of reviews, or by creating their own derivative works, such as translations.”
————————————–
that doesn’t make any sense.
not in the real world at least.
“Is it your contention that Intellectual Property law is immoral and that monetization of IP is unjust?”
No, just the Intellectual Property law (which, in fact does not exist, since intellectual property does not exist. There only exists copyright, trademarks, and patents, which are not even remotely the same thing). The monetization part is an unfortunate consequence of it – which can be reduced if the copyright law is changed. In all actuality, the immorality of these laws is quite obvious, taking into consideration the abuses of copyright going on right now – which, of course, is all of it. It is not reasonable for anyone to be sent to jail for this. It is not reasonable to send innocent people (like this person) to jail – in fact, it is immoral. This is an example of the abuse of copyright law – and that is that.
Roze
So some laws are tyrannical; therefore in this case, artists and craftsmen have no right to the dissemination of their work if that work is in any way digitized. Is this correct?
@78 Bob
They do have the natural right to disseminate or not disseminate their own work as they wish, but not the natural right to tyrannize over what other people do with it once they have it, such as disseminate it themselves, or alter it, &c. Of course, I speak of natural rights, not legal rights, (and in this case, the legal rights are contrary to the natural rights, thus indicating that the law is itself immoral).
Roze
Serves the guy right.
Yeah, it might not be available in Japan, but it’s not as though it was never going to be available, and all he did was hurt the revenue stream of the release company by doing it.
I’m not so hard headed as to say “It doesn’t matter if it will never makes it to Japan(or the U.S. for some anime) it’s still wrong!”, obviously, if everyone knew it wasn’t going to get a Japanese release, then hell yeah, go nuts, spread that movie with your subs all over the place, you’ve got my support. You probably wouldn’t see action from the company either, because there’s not really any money involved.
But once he started circulating it, he became liable. Yes, the subs are his creative property, but beyond that, he’s still distributing copyrighted material, and that’s illegal.
@82 Anonymous
How about you’re an idiot. They hurt their own revenue stream by not translating it as quickly. Moreover, this guy didn’t do anything to “make it available to the Japanese” since it was already available – in English. Now try making some sense next time.
Roze
Do the crime you do the time. I have no problem with people downloading a movie thats freely available with the click of a mouse. But if you’re going to be the guy who is the first one to release a movie on the internet then you need to understand it’s pretty illegal and you most likely will get jail time if caught.
@84 John
Actually, this guy didn’t release it first. He only translated it. Make sure your facts are correct next time.
Roze
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