Roze

Roze

Yeah, it might not be available in Japan, but it’s not as though it was never going to be available, and all he did was hurt the revenue stream of the release company by doing it.

I’m not so hard headed as to say “It doesn’t matter if it will never makes it to Japan(or the U.S. for some anime) it’s still wrong!”, obviously, if everyone knew it wasn’t going to get a Japanese release, then hell yeah, go nuts, spread that movie with your subs all over the place, you’ve got my support. You probably wouldn’t see action from the company either, because there’s not really any money involved.

But once he started circulating it, he became liable. Yes, the subs are his creative property, but beyond that, he’s still distributing copyrighted material, and that’s illegal.

Roze

Roze

that doesn’t make any sense.

not in the real world at least.

Please, just clear this up for me Roze so I have a proper understanding of your position… Is it your contention that Intellectual Property law is immoral and that monetization of IP is unjust?

To be honest here, (as above)have to say YES he got of lightly! but the copyright laws are there!

YOU TAKE YOUR CHOICE!

Ta!

“I don?t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry.”
You’re only angry because you are dead wrong.

“Not to mention the fact that you?re still breaking the law.”
Laws do not determine morality.

“So don?t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.”
Again, laws do not determine morality – and the action of an immoral law is reason enough to get bent out of shape.

“By the way, in terms of a product, a movie is the same as say? an ice cream cone.”
No, it isn’t.

“I simply can?t afford to spend that amount of creative effort for nothing more than boos or applause and therefore I don?t.”

No, in response to the previous two above quotations, here is this:
Why do you think people take up the effort to write speeches, or form words into sentences in everyday conversation? The fact of the matter is that it is useful to do so in order to communicate to others, so that in some way, what one says figures into the other person’s minds, and so that the other person might also respond back. Creative work, in particular, is a special kind of communication, using fiction or non-fiction to communicate between people. That is the compensation – and it is such tyrannical limitations on what people can do with such culture that stagnates culture, not freedom.

As I have said, if you hate fan-subs so much, then why don’t you complain to the anime fan-subbers directly? There are plenty around – why don’t you tell them that what they are doing is immoral?

Roze

‘Oh yeah, that was a great ice cream cone, eh, I’m glad you enjoyed it!’ says the ice cream man, ‘now I can rest assured that I made a great ice cream cone while I can’t pay my bills! Don’t worry, the satisfaction of providing a great ice cream cone is compensation enough for me!’

Yeah, that would never fucking happen. Your review idea is complete and utter bullshit.

As for all this “We’re oppressed by the big corporations!” bullshit, you’re downright insane. These people make a product. A PRODUCT. A product that you enjoy. To make this product, they invest time and money, in hopes of getting some kind of return. If you made a movie yourself, investing millions and years into its production, wouldn’t you have a problem if someone took that product for free after it was completed? It doesn’t matter if they still make money. If it wasn’t for these guys, you wouldn’t have this product to enjoy and steal in the first place. I don’t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry. Not to mention the fact that you’re still breaking the law. Just because it’s become “accepted” to download and distribute someone else’s hard work doesn’t mean it’s not against the law. So don’t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.

True, it does seem that much of torrenting is “getting stuff” and not caring about protesting – but the fault lies not in the fact that they are getting stuff, but rather that they are not protesting.

“I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not.”
Participation is the compensation – the compensation is for the audience to speak back to the original producer – either in the form of reviews, or by creating their own derivative works, such as translations.

After all, you see here that this person did this translation for no monetary compensation. Now why do you think that he did that?

Roze

Is it your position that I should be refunded my money or should I have simply not paid to see it and I should only pay if I like it? That is not a viable business model for any industry other than entertainment and is only viable now with the high availability of media. Why is digital media so special in this regard? Should you be allowed to take home clothes from a clothing store for free and pay only if they look good on you at a party?

With regard to your live concert argument, applying the same logic suggests that patrons get to see the concerts for free and give some amount of money if they feel like it. How can a band tour purely on optional donations? It takes the assurance of ticket sales and concessions to secure a venue in the first place. Phish and the Greatful Dead both encouraged bootlegging, but you still had to buy the ticket to get in the show. Most of the board tracks were of such higher quality that if a set was really good, it was worth it to pick up the board track and replace the bootleg; however, many board tracks were never pressed to media so a bootleg was nice to have and the bootlegs allowed them to draw larger audiences by distributing their music is a viral channel.

I stopped making bootleg software twenty years ago when I realized that by contributing money I encourage the software industry and make it possible for future development. I also wanted to be a professional programmer so bootlegging would be against my best interests. I could also justify bootlegging based upon scarcity of resources as it was incredibly hard to get titles. Now, it is the opposite condition.

Granted, many companies now make subpar products and I avoid corporate products from say EA because they have lost sight of their constituency and they have pretty much become a money mill. Is the torrent culture a method of protest or is it just a self-serving means to get free stuff?

This is the question I have been trying to resolve personally by observing my friends. They seem to just do it so they don’t have to pay and go somewhere to participate or they won’t bother to program a DVR. The problems I had and the impact on my business due to torrenting was caused by my roommate eating all the bandwidth all the time when I consistently needed access to RDC. It became contentious to the point that I had to always check to see if his computer was on when I needed to work. I basically stopped trusting his word because he actually didn’t know whether or not he was downloading.

Due to these reasons, I just don’t torrent. I am not opposed to the method of distribution or to the desire to consume media in privacy; however, I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not. It just seems to be a case of special pleading since digital media is so accessible.

sacrifices have to be made to preserve freedom,

see you around, downloading that next pre-release