Roze

Roze

Yeah, it might not be available in Japan, but it’s not as though it was never going to be available, and all he did was hurt the revenue stream of the release company by doing it.

I’m not so hard headed as to say “It doesn’t matter if it will never makes it to Japan(or the U.S. for some anime) it’s still wrong!”, obviously, if everyone knew it wasn’t going to get a Japanese release, then hell yeah, go nuts, spread that movie with your subs all over the place, you’ve got my support. You probably wouldn’t see action from the company either, because there’s not really any money involved.

But once he started circulating it, he became liable. Yes, the subs are his creative property, but beyond that, he’s still distributing copyrighted material, and that’s illegal.

Roze

Roze

that doesn’t make any sense.

not in the real world at least.

Please, just clear this up for me Roze so I have a proper understanding of your position… Is it your contention that Intellectual Property law is immoral and that monetization of IP is unjust?

To be honest here, (as above)have to say YES he got of lightly! but the copyright laws are there!

YOU TAKE YOUR CHOICE!

Ta!

“I don?t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry.”
You’re only angry because you are dead wrong.

“Not to mention the fact that you?re still breaking the law.”
Laws do not determine morality.

“So don?t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.”
Again, laws do not determine morality – and the action of an immoral law is reason enough to get bent out of shape.

“By the way, in terms of a product, a movie is the same as say? an ice cream cone.”
No, it isn’t.

“I simply can?t afford to spend that amount of creative effort for nothing more than boos or applause and therefore I don?t.”

No, in response to the previous two above quotations, here is this:
Why do you think people take up the effort to write speeches, or form words into sentences in everyday conversation? The fact of the matter is that it is useful to do so in order to communicate to others, so that in some way, what one says figures into the other person’s minds, and so that the other person might also respond back. Creative work, in particular, is a special kind of communication, using fiction or non-fiction to communicate between people. That is the compensation – and it is such tyrannical limitations on what people can do with such culture that stagnates culture, not freedom.

As I have said, if you hate fan-subs so much, then why don’t you complain to the anime fan-subbers directly? There are plenty around – why don’t you tell them that what they are doing is immoral?

Roze

‘Oh yeah, that was a great ice cream cone, eh, I’m glad you enjoyed it!’ says the ice cream man, ‘now I can rest assured that I made a great ice cream cone while I can’t pay my bills! Don’t worry, the satisfaction of providing a great ice cream cone is compensation enough for me!’

Yeah, that would never fucking happen. Your review idea is complete and utter bullshit.

As for all this “We’re oppressed by the big corporations!” bullshit, you’re downright insane. These people make a product. A PRODUCT. A product that you enjoy. To make this product, they invest time and money, in hopes of getting some kind of return. If you made a movie yourself, investing millions and years into its production, wouldn’t you have a problem if someone took that product for free after it was completed? It doesn’t matter if they still make money. If it wasn’t for these guys, you wouldn’t have this product to enjoy and steal in the first place. I don’t really care about downloading, but the rampant ignorance as to the position of the creators really gets me angry. Not to mention the fact that you’re still breaking the law. Just because it’s become “accepted” to download and distribute someone else’s hard work doesn’t mean it’s not against the law. So don’t get bent out of shape when there are some actual repercussions.

True, it does seem that much of torrenting is “getting stuff” and not caring about protesting – but the fault lies not in the fact that they are getting stuff, but rather that they are not protesting.

“I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not.”
Participation is the compensation – the compensation is for the audience to speak back to the original producer – either in the form of reviews, or by creating their own derivative works, such as translations.

After all, you see here that this person did this translation for no monetary compensation. Now why do you think that he did that?

Roze

Is it your position that I should be refunded my money or should I have simply not paid to see it and I should only pay if I like it? That is not a viable business model for any industry other than entertainment and is only viable now with the high availability of media. Why is digital media so special in this regard? Should you be allowed to take home clothes from a clothing store for free and pay only if they look good on you at a party?

With regard to your live concert argument, applying the same logic suggests that patrons get to see the concerts for free and give some amount of money if they feel like it. How can a band tour purely on optional donations? It takes the assurance of ticket sales and concessions to secure a venue in the first place. Phish and the Greatful Dead both encouraged bootlegging, but you still had to buy the ticket to get in the show. Most of the board tracks were of such higher quality that if a set was really good, it was worth it to pick up the board track and replace the bootleg; however, many board tracks were never pressed to media so a bootleg was nice to have and the bootlegs allowed them to draw larger audiences by distributing their music is a viral channel.

I stopped making bootleg software twenty years ago when I realized that by contributing money I encourage the software industry and make it possible for future development. I also wanted to be a professional programmer so bootlegging would be against my best interests. I could also justify bootlegging based upon scarcity of resources as it was incredibly hard to get titles. Now, it is the opposite condition.

Granted, many companies now make subpar products and I avoid corporate products from say EA because they have lost sight of their constituency and they have pretty much become a money mill. Is the torrent culture a method of protest or is it just a self-serving means to get free stuff?

This is the question I have been trying to resolve personally by observing my friends. They seem to just do it so they don’t have to pay and go somewhere to participate or they won’t bother to program a DVR. The problems I had and the impact on my business due to torrenting was caused by my roommate eating all the bandwidth all the time when I consistently needed access to RDC. It became contentious to the point that I had to always check to see if his computer was on when I needed to work. I basically stopped trusting his word because he actually didn’t know whether or not he was downloading.

Due to these reasons, I just don’t torrent. I am not opposed to the method of distribution or to the desire to consume media in privacy; however, I am still of the opinion that the producer needs to be compensated for participation whether you enjoy it or not. It just seems to be a case of special pleading since digital media is so accessible.

sacrifices have to be made to preserve freedom,

see you around, downloading that next pre-release

Roze

“How do you suggest artists get compensated for their work?”
I suggest the review model. Artist get compensated for their work by receiving feedback from people who see it. See, for example, the website archiveofourown (top-level domain: org).

Roze

Economies are entirely built upon living off other people. Your entire argument is non-sequitur. Digital does not mean free and as a programmer, piracy greatly concerns me as it deters me from investing much of my time in creative activities which could be marketed in favor of working at a company for a regular living wage. We are far beyond the patron model of art. How do you suggest artists get compensated for their work? I do not suggest that all art is worthwhile or worthy of compensation; however, in your model no one gets compensated for anything and anarchy is the norm. Such a society would utterly suck so grow up and pay to play.

There is no right to make a profit. Profits are earned – it is not something that everybody has a right to. If you don’t have any success, then that is your fault – perhaps you made a crappy film that nobody liked, or something. Just because you make a single film, doesn’t mean that everybody has to bow down to you and worship you and give you all sorts of money so that you don’t have to work anymore and be a slouch. If other people do not give you money, then it is you, not other people, who did something wrong.

For example, some bands make money through live performances, &c. If you cannot find a working business model, and find that the old one fails, then it is up to YOU to find a new one.

Roze

Clean out the criminal scum of the internet!

Jess
privacy.de.tc

Do you know what a suspended sentence means?

Roze

@ mafiaa plant
You got pwned hahahahahahaha

Only people who want artists to be slaves is you & your employers at the mafiaa.

It’s not.

Being a virginal, zitty, loser is not a crime.

Whoops, you’re confusing us with the MAFIAA. Try again.

stfu: “Some of us do not agree with the law but at least are aware of it, and becuase of that we are some how a plant?”

No, you’re a plant because you were hired to come here. Just as the MAFIAA ruitinely has people spreading fake files and bad torrents, they also keep monkeys like you on their payroll in a worthless effort to demonize filesharing and shape public sentiment in their favour.

stfu: “If you take Retard Roze’s advice and fight the law by breaking it, dont complain when your ass gets pwnd by the law”

Haha, wow.

The likelyhood of getting into any sort of legal trouble for filesharing is so slim that it’s fucking ludicrous to lose sleep over. More people die from slipping and falling in their own showers every year than are prosecuted for filesharing.

So if you don’t want to blow your cover as a hired plant, don’t try to scare people by going around saying “Fileshare at your own risk, CAUSE YOU COULD BE ARRESTED!!!!!” while moaning and rattling chains.

The MAFIAA should fire you on the spot for that sorry little display, and consider hiring somebody more competent. Like a maybe a chimp.

BTW, loved the geek-rage. I could picture you shaking with fury as you typed that last comment(#52). Did the pwant get his ego bwuised? Aww. :(

“What you want id for artists to be your slaves.”
Eh… no. How about, “what we want is for the freedom of art, in doing things like editing other’s works, &c.”

“becuase of that we are some how a plant?”
Yes

“You are delusional.”
Speak for yourself.

“Roze, you are just full of sh** full stop.”
How is it reasonable to throw all anime fan-subbers into prison? How about you actually try (and inevitably fail) to prove your point instead of randomly saying “I’m right, you’re wrong, just cause I said so.”

“There are better ways of doing shit that stooping to the level of a 10 year old”
Thoreau wasn’t 10 years old when he wrote “Civil Disobedience.”

Roze

MAFIAA plant.

Some of us are realists. Some of us do not agree with the law but at least are aware of it, and becuase of that we are some how a plant? You are delusional. You make shit up to suit yourselves and you ingnore cold hard fact in favour of utopian ideal which doesn’t even exsist, never has existed and as long as you bunch of retards are around won’t ever exist. You are the fly in the ointment. You are killing any chance of proper fair reform becuse you are self centered and ignorant.

Roze, you are just full of shit full stop. It’s been a while since I’ve personaly seen anyone spout such utter crap so consistantly they’ve actually adopted it as their reality. You and your ilk are the reason the industry is so spiteful towards filesharing. You’re like a cancerous lesion stuck on the anus of p2p. You spread nothing but disinformation. Hell I woundn’t be surprised if you were a plant, an agent provocateur who’s sole job it is to convince people that its ok to do what they do, when it is not, and not because I say it is not, but becuase the law says it is not. If you take Retard Roze’s advice and fight the law by breaking it, dont complain when your ass gets pwnd by the law, its as simple as that. There are better ways of doing shit that stooping to the level of a 10 year old, but then most of you probably have the intelect of a 10 year old.

Oh, LOL.

Do you even realize in that paragraph up there, you’re saying any form of intellectual property is bullshit?

I almost feel sorry for the MAFIAA. Hiring you was like taking their money and then just throwing it down a toilet.

Don’t badmouth criminals. As a hired plant, you’re far, far lower than they are.

You’re somewhere down there with dung beetles, liver flukes, and Johnnie Cochran.

Eric the sockpuppet: “Well, society will always have leeches who suck blood and don’t contribute anything.”

Yup.

Bloodsucking leeches like the MPAA, the RIAA, the IFPI… The list goes on and on.

Speaking of which, how are your employers? Say HI to Dan Glickman for me.

Eric the sockpuppet: “I guess the rest of us can just read about the few movie pirates who get arrested and say-they deserve what they got.

Hahahah.

See, this why viral marketters are such a blast. They always have these massive egos and fancy themselves as grandoise manipulators of the unwashed masses, but in reality, they’re all dumb as a stump.

A suspended sentence doesn’t really do anything except sit there and sound scary. Kazushi Hirata got away scott free.

So you’re saying that filesharers deserve to be caught, but then get away with it.

U R SMERT!

The MAFIAA should dock your pay for that little brainfart, but then again, they’re even dumber than you are.

After all, they’re the ones who hired you.

“Oh, you’re not the martyr type.”
Of course I am not. That is why I call for someone else to be the martyr – someone with much less to lose. For people with more to lose, it is much better to be the prudent type, planning things out to be most effective

Roze

Of course, this throws the entire idea of “copyright to give monetary incentive to artists” out the window. It is certainly not any incentive – it is just control, control, control.

Just so you know, people download anime fansubs all the time – before they are released in English, and nobody complains about them. Just to show how moronic you are.

Also, “intellectual property rights” never actually did exist in the first place. Nothing in copyright, trademark, or patents did anything ever say that it was “property.” It is simply copyright and copyright violation – not property. It was something that the industry invented to confuse the issue – and just shows how full of BS you are.

Roze

If you really want to protest you should break the law and turn yourself in to the police, give a sworn statement as to why the law your broke was unjust, then state your objections to the judge.

Oh, you’re not the martyr type. Yeah, that seems to be the case with most criminals, unwilling to stand up for their beliefs.

A fine and some community service would be far more fitting for the crime rather than being treated in the same light as violent criminals.

I hope he manages to keep himself out of any trouble for the next few years.

Roze

“Have you got any more evidence for this outrageous claim?”
Look at the innumerable doujinshi in Japan.

“You seem to be implying that because no one is convicted it is therefore not illegal.”
I am implying that the law is selecitvely enforced – that sometimes, the law is completely ignored and the breaking of it is accepted in Japan (like it should be), and other times, like at the urging of foreign companies, it is imposed upon people very much.

“I think you are a person who needs to learn to work with money and not fear it: it is a fact that almost all profesional artists work for money, usually on a commission basis and this has been the case for many hundreds of years.”
So you are saying that those who have the drive to work not for money should somehow be punished. Yeah, that makes perfect sense…

Roze