ZipTorrent Pollutes and Slows Down Popular Torrents
Written by Ernesto on July 16, 2007BitTorrent users are facing a new enemy. A BitTorrent client named ZipTorrent, allegedly created by our friends from the anti-piracy organization Media Defender, leeches bandwith and spreads useless data chunks.
The goal of ZipTorrent is to slow down popular downloads as much as possible. They use hundreds of these clients at the same time and this can potentially bring the average download speed down to zero. Even more so, it is not unlikely that it will record your IP-address in the process so they can send you a copyright infringement notice on top of it.
On the Media Defender website we read:
“Decoying and Spoofing are the most commonly known techniques that we employ. We send blank files and data noise that look exactly like a real response to an initiated search requests for a particular title.”
According to ubisuck over at the mininova forums, Media Defender is doing just this with ZipTorrent. Apparently the fake client is a mod of the popular BitTorrent client Azureus which can be configured to send fake data.
Here’s a full screenshot of the ZipTorrent configuration screen. As you will see, there are some dubious settings like “fake upload ratio mode”, “no upload” and “safe fake download”.
It is not hard to check whether you are connected to these fake clients. In the peers list of your BitTorrent client they will show up as “ZipTorrent” and most of the time you will be connected to a bunch of them all originating from similar IP addresses with either 0% or 100% of the file completed.
However, there are blocklists to stop these malicious clients from connecting to your BitTorrent client. Pasted below is a list of the known IP-ranges ZipTorrent is on. The ranges were identified by The Pirate Bay team and are posted in several forums. You might want to add these to the blocklist of your BitTorrent client or PeerGuardian.
There’s one problem though, Media Defender will probably move to new IPs if they read this, a never ending story.
Update: The legitimacy of the screenshot and “ZipTorrent” is doubtful but the IP ranges are correct. Spoofing is not limited to a client like ZipTorrent and I’m told that clients like uTorrent and Azureus are also used to do this job.
ziptorrent:64.62.145.130-64.62.145.165
ziptorrent:65.19.131.0-65.19.131.85
ziptorrent:66.160.133.0-66.160.133.199
ziptorrent:87.117.250.0-87.117.250.150
ziptorrent:216.218.0.100-216.218.184.199
ziptorrent:216.218.190.0-216.218.199.255
ziptorrent:38.99.252.0-38.99.252.255
ziptorrent:38.99.253.1-38.99.253.200
ziptorrent:38.100.24.0-38.100.24.255
ziptorrent:38.100.25.0-38.100.25.255
ziptorrent:38.100.26.0-38.100.26.255
ziptorrent:38.100.134.0-38.100.135.255
ziptorrent:63.216.0.0-63.223.255.255
ziptorrent:64.62.145.0-64.62.145.255
ziptorrent:64.62.214.0-64.62.214.255
ziptorrent:64.93.64.0-64.93.64.255
ziptorrent:65.19.131.0-65.19.131.85
ziptorrent:65.19.143.0-65.19.143.255
ziptorrent:65.120.42.0-65.120.42.255
ziptorrent:66.117.5.0-66.117.5.255
ziptorrent:66.160.133.0-66.160.133.199
ziptorrent:66.160.158.0-66.160.158.255
ziptorrent:66.180.192.0-66.180.207.255
ziptorrent:66.186.192.0-66.186.223.255
ziptorrent:66.198.35.0-66.198.35.255
ziptorrent:81.230.187.01-81.230.187.99
ziptorrent:87.117.250.0-87.117.250.255
ziptorrent:100.0.0.0-115.255.255.255
ziptorrent:129.47.9.0-129.47.9.255
ziptorrent:154.37.0.0-154.37.255.255
ziptorrent:206.80.0.01-206.80.99.99
ziptorrent:207.45.196.0-207.45.196.255
ziptorrent:208.10.23.0-208.10.23.255
ziptorrent:208.10.29.0-208.10.29.255
ziptorrent:209.66.117.0-209.66.117.255
ziptorrent:209.133.121.0-209.151.247.255
ziptorrent:209.133.122.0-209.133.122.255
ziptorrent:209.151.247.0-209.151.247.255
ziptorrent:216.218.0.100-216.218.184.199
ziptorrent:216.218.190.0-216.218.199.255
Previously: Music Industry Gains Hollow Victory Over eDonkey Server
Next: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows leaked to BitTorrent
178 Responses
I don’t think anyone is using 255.255.255.255, at least not for bittorrent, since that is the broadcast address. Or am I missing something?
thx for the advice
added
* note, i did a search in the log for ziptorrent, they have a lot of traffic going.
Thank you, as usual, you guys kick ass!
wow they do have a lot of traffic, thanks for the heads up torrent freak…wow 2/3 blocks every 3/4 seconds.
Actually ziptorrent was a client of it’s own, discontinued (?) in 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZipTorrent
Maybe the original author want’s to sue Media Defender for breach of TM, if registered ;-P
Hopefully will be added to the blocklists within pg2 :) ….
can anyone tell me how to add the above list to PG or a
url with a how-to?
[quote comment="133461"]can anyone tell me how to add the above list to PG or a
url with a how-to?[/quote]
It’s in the above link in the story
debol go to
http://wiki.phoenixlabs.org/wiki/PeerGuardian_2:Manual
This should not do anything all bt clients will ban clients that send bad data or am i missing something?
[quote comment="133473"]This should not do anything all bt clients will ban clients that send bad data or am i missing something?[/quote]
Thats a good thing, but the reallity is, that not everyone - and not all torrent engines - updates frequently, so you can get bad files from third parties.
Azureus records the amount of times an ip adress sends bad data, and will automatically ban that IP once the amount of times they send bad data reach a certain point.
In the above ss, it shows as ziptorrent. The actual mod in question doesn’t include these client names but more client lists can be added either in the mod or with a spoofing plugin. These mods can emulate any client.
One peer reported noticing bad data being sent to him in utorrent but his client didn’t ban the ip. Even when you do, they re-appear in a few minutes using a different ip.
Attacks are linked to the use of hundreds of bots attacking the torrent, just after release. Several test’s have been done to prove this and a way was discovered to partialy confuse these bots. They search out and attack known films/games or uploaders names and attack. It takes about 6 minutes for these bots to discover new torrents then attack.
They work by swamping the torrent in the hundreds, faking uploading at a huge rate. The tracker gives them priority to the point were normal peers see little or none of the traffic.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The uploader who passed this info claims that attacks have steped up a gear and that tpb is being attacked across the board. These bots are killing torrents left right and centre. They pose a serious risk to torrenting and must be taken seriously. We’ve always been at war with these groups but now it’s getting serious.
Take the list above and spread the word. The more people using these ranges in peerguardian, the better.
Forgot to add…
Comon signs to look for at the moment is the ziptorrent client. Peers who seem to be stuck at 0%. Peers who report as 100% and upload at an unreal speed.
I am making a list in PeerGuardian to block the ziptorrent IP ranges and got confused when I got to this range: 216.218.190.0-216.218.199.255
My computer knowledge is limited, but this range didn’t seem to follow the pattern of the other ranges. I thought that “199″ should be “190″.
Could someone let me know if this is a typo or not?
Many thanks!
@greenkeyboard & Jasper
While you are both right in your observation there is one tiny but important difference in the new approach of (allegedly) MediaDefender. (*)
Those peers do NOT send you bad data -at least not as heavily as it was done priviously which subsequently resulted in the (automated) fast banning of those “bad” guys.
Their new approach is to get as most upload slots as possible on the first seeder(s) and just suck up as much of the pieces that are intended to be distribute to “legitimate” sharing peers in the assumption that the source uploader will cease to seed after x-times the size of the torrent of distibuted pieces.
So this “new thread” is more a problem source uploaders need to be aware of then the “regular swarm buddy”, since there is no automated hashfail like banning system in place that prevent them from being sucked dry without that the content gets “in the wild” and they are most likely not even aware that they haven’t spread it widely even if they have 2 or 3 digit seeding figures for their torrents.
(*) I doubt that Randy is smart enough to come up himself with that new approach to behave friendly and just take instead of to be bad and give the poisoned fruit and be (automatedly) avoided in the consequence.
Maybe a new player in the house? ;-)
The media defender part comes from the uploader who is working with tpb to try and remove this threat. He reported it as a bot threat called media defender. I informed him that media defender is actually an anti_p2p group.
I origionaly produced the pic you see above. I wouldn’t assume that these mods up bad data. That’s not normaly the way these mods work. Problem is, people are reporting it. It’s possible that these people arn’t using the mod correctly as this is reported to produce the odd bad packet.
Maybe they’re learning how to use it correctly. Maybe another group is getting in on the act.
What you report fakefinder, sounds more like the behavour of these mods. May I ask that you locate the thread on mininova and post this info? Located here.
http://forum.mininova.org/index.php?showtopic=234996460&st=40
I’ve made a discovery. I’ve been monitoring this ziptorrent thing very closely. What I’ve figured out is that almost every single ziptorrent block by PG2 is from my local router IP which is 192.168.1.1 (Most of yours should be something about the same)and is going to something along the lines of 239.255.255.250 Port 1900. This is regular internet traffic and is nothing to be worried about. I have not traced it back to which line of text it is in the block list but I am working on it and will post which one it is very soon so you can delete it from the block list. I think it’s causing a lot of worry seeing all of these ziptorrent blocks when in reality, the blocklist added an IP address that is just normal internet traffic.
Here is how to stop all of the unnecessary blocking. I did this and am no longer pestered with useless ziptorrent blocks. People were complaining about how they were getting blocks even though they weren’t downloading. This fixes that problem.
1. Open up the notepad document you made of the ziptorrent block lists.
2. Scroll down to the bottom and delete the last two lines of text.
3. Save the document.
4. Open up PG2 and update your lists by clicking “Check Updates.”
5. You will now no longer be pestered with unnecessary ziptorrent blocks that are just regular internet traffic.
**mutters something about harry potter 2007 torrent**
**cough cough**
…ZipTorrent Pollutes and Slows Down Popular Torrents… http://www.dontwatchme.com
how can they keep leeching like this if it is as widespread as peaple say what is their bandwith bill.
Most likely withun a few days most tracker admins will block this kind of attack it sounds real noticeable talk about a wastw of money
I’ve often wondered that. Not just with this form of attack but in general.
They DON’T stop the flow of matterial as they are hired to do. How much money do you think companies are sinking into these groups just to watch there releses being circulated? How long do you think it would take companies to relise that they are wasting there money?
Perhaps this attack is a sign of desperation.
I’m kind of curious, if this decoy technology works by engaging in massive leeching, what stops people from setting up honeypot trackers to get their IPs, then setting up a bunch of counter-decoy machines to waste the anti-piracy group’s resources?
The problem with this approach seems pretty similar to the decoy bots on other networks - once people figure out what they’re up to, they’ll either block the decoys or set up countermeasures. As a preventative measure, it seems like a bit of a one trick pony.
[quote comment="133544"]I’m kind of curious, if this decoy technology works by engaging in massive leeching, what stops people from setting up honeypot trackers to get their IPs, then setting up a bunch of counter-decoy machines to waste the anti-piracy group’s resources?
The problem with this approach seems pretty similar to the decoy bots on other networks - once people figure out what they’re up to, they’ll either block the decoys or set up countermeasures. As a preventative measure, it seems like a bit of a one trick pony.[/quote]
Already being tried. That is basicly the steps taken to confuse these bots. Set up a torrent and let them swamp it. Delete said torrent and set up another then delete. Then change hash values ( I think, could be wrong ) and set up the legit torrent. This has produced results. Acording to the uploader, this confuses the hell out of them. Nearly all are still attached to the fakes while only a few attach to the real one.
So if this tactic that MediaDefender is doing only effects illegal downloads, then what’s the problem?
@#21 (Berethend)
ziptorrent:224.0.0.0-239.255.255.255
ziptorrent:240.0.0.0-255.255.255.255
Are what’s causing your blocks. Those addresses are in the class D (multicast) range. The blocks you are seeing are your upnp getting blocked.
[quote comment="133563"]So if this tactic that MediaDefender is doing only effects illegal downloads, then what’s the problem?[/quote]
Nobody has a logical answer to my question? That should show you something.
I’m sorry, but as somebody that is largely ignorant to this depth of technology, all of this back and forth is all very thrilling and reminiscent of an action film I downloaded off of The Pirate Bay and watched while eating Cheetos from betwixt my rolls.
Seriously, I love human ingenuity. I know/hope we have some exciting countermeasures in store for these filth.
[quote comment="133572"]I’m sorry, but as somebody that is largely ignorant to this depth of technology, all of this back and forth is all very thrilling and reminiscent of an action film I downloaded off of The Pirate Bay and watched while eating Cheetos from betwixt my rolls.
Seriously, I love human ingenuity. I know/hope we have some exciting countermeasures in store for these filth.[/quote]
How is it filth? They are preventing thieves.
[quote comment="133564"]@#21 (Berethend)
ziptorrent:224.0.0.0-239.255.255.255
ziptorrent:240.0.0.0-255.255.255.255
Are what’s causing your blocks. Those addresses are in the class D (multicast) range. The blocks you are seeing are your upnp getting blocked.[/quote]
Already aware of this. Have posted on the mininova thread to advise.
Your universal plug n play is one of the biggest security holes in the windows platform. These ranges should be blocked, or your pnp disabled.
Always while sharing information.
Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.
I’m glad I could help with getting rid of those pesky IPs. I don’t know why they were put on there. Thanks for putting it on mininova. I would have if I had an account. I already informed Demonoid of the mistake as well as a few other forums.
[quote comment="133591"]I’m glad I could help with getting rid of those pesky IPs. I don’t know why they were put on there. Thanks for putting it on mininova. I would have if I had an account. I already informed Demonoid of the mistake as well as a few other forums.[/quote]
Thanx.
[quote comment="133590"]Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
It’s not that what they’re doing is wrong. They’re destroying internet traffic. They’re clogging normal internet traffic to catch a few people and I doubt they’ll even get anyone. We pay taxes, the tax money goes to the government, the gov. pays companies like Media Defender to try and stop us from downloading. Up to this point it’s fine. But because the people downloading torrents are often smarter, we find ways to avoid getting caught and all of the tax money we paid has been wasted because Media Defender didn’t catch anyone. Honestly though, would you rather put some guy who downloaded Transformers in jail or a mass murderer? I don’t even think you need to answer that.
those people of media defender never seem to amaze me enough at their tactics
If this was my site I would pluck you like a ziptorrent range, jai.
Got nothing to do? Wonder why.
[quote comment="133593"][quote comment="133590"]Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
It’s not that what they’re doing is wrong. They’re destroying internet traffic. They’re clogging normal internet traffic to catch a few people and I doubt they’ll even get anyone. We pay taxes, the tax money goes to the government, the gov. pays companies like Media Defender to try and stop us from downloading. Up to this point it’s fine. But because the people downloading torrents are often smarter, we find ways to avoid getting caught and all of the tax money we paid has been wasted because Media Defender didn’t catch anyone. Honestly though, would you rather put some guy who downloaded Transformers in jail or a mass murderer? I don’t even think you need to answer that.[/quote]
Ok, you’re saying it’s a waste of tax money. Well, let me tell you something: If bittorrents weren’t such a problem, then, there would be no need to do this. You criminals are the problem, not the victims.
And people who download torrents don’t go to prison as often as mass murderers. They get a settlement letter, etc. There also aren’t as many people committing mass murder as stealing copyrighted material, is there?
You’re all just stating double standards. Lets just be honest:
We want to have tons of music, and have tons of movies for entertainment, and we found an immoral way to get it for free, but we don’t care because 1) they have a ton of money anyways and 2) nobody dies. It doesn’t start wars, so who cares?
That’s your mentality.
Topic has gone off-subject,
THEY ARE NOT DOING THIS TO CATCH ANYONE.
They are doing this to destroy files and make sharing near impossible, this new tactic of defense has not much to do with attacking individuals, its about attacking files.
Go pick a fight somewhere else jai, nobody here wants to get involved in your morality play.
[quote comment="133602"]Go pick a fight somewhere else jai, nobody here wants to get involved in your morality play.[/quote]
It’s because you all know I’m right.
You just want to download illegally, so you pretend that morals don’t come into play.
[quote]Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
Just because its illegal doesn’t make it wrong.
[quote]We want to have tons of music, and have tons of movies for entertainment, and we found an immoral way to get it for free,[/quote]
It’s not immoral to me. Ever think that other peoples morals might not exactly coincide with yours?
[quote]It’s because you all know I’m right.[/quote]
Funny when people get self righteous :)
[quote comment="133608"][quote]Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
Just because its illegal doesn’t make it wrong.
[quote]We want to have tons of music, and have tons of movies for entertainment, and we found an immoral way to get it for free,[/quote]
It’s not immoral to me. Ever think that other peoples morals might not exactly coincide with yours?
[quote]It’s because you all know I’m right.[/quote]
Funny when people get self righteous :)[/quote]
So I guess stealing is no longer immoral? Typical liberal statement.
I completely agree that stealing is wrong. The reason I’m upset over this is because they are going about stopping us the wrong way. They are unwilling to compromise under any means. They could compromise and cut down on illegal downloads, or they can piss tons of people off and have torrents still run rampant. To me, compromise seems like the best way to stop illegal downloading, instead they’re destroying internet traffic just to “make a point” when in reality they haven’t stopped anything.
[quote comment="133611"]I completely agree that stealing is wrong. The reason I’m upset over this is because they are going about stopping us the wrong way. They are unwilling to compromise under any means. They could compromise and cut down on illegal downloads, or they can piss tons of people off and have torrents still run rampant. To me, compromise seems like the best way to stop illegal downloading, instead they’re destroying internet traffic just to “make a point” when in reality they haven’t stopped anything.[/quote]
So, according to you, we should make deals with criminals?
When enforcing laws, there will always be innocent people that are inconvenienced in the process, that’s the way it works, and so be it. Your rights aren’t being violated here in anyway, and frankly, I haven’t noticed any slowness in my download speeds, and I just downloaded Ubuntu (700mb or so) earlier today.
What’s your point?
Oh yeah - to make deals with criminals.
No, we are not criminals. We are legitimate human beings that support the economy. Everything on torrents is intellectual property. It just so happens that some countries do not want knowledge to be shared. Until copyright laws are changed, we are stuck being ignorant monkeys that suffer because we do not have access to knowledge that’s on the internet because some moron has to make profit off of his new book to support a politician. No wonder Americans are so fucking stupid, they have no access to information/knowledge (Yes, I’m American, so don’t retort against my point) Also, I’m an active musician that spreads his music through torrents and asks for no profit in return. It’s knowledge and information that deserves to be spread to the world. How can you place claim on a bunch of 1’s and 0’s?
[quote comment="133617"]No, we are not criminals. We are legitimate human beings that support the economy. Everything on torrents is intellectual property. It just so happens that some countries do not want knowledge to be shared. Until copyright laws are changed, we are stuck being ignorant monkeys that suffer because we do not have access to knowledge that’s on the internet because some moron has to make profit off of his new book to support a politician. No wonder Americans are so fucking stupid, they have no access to information/knowledge (Yes, I’m American, so don’t retort against my point) Also, I’m an active musician that spreads his music through torrents and asks for no profit in return. It’s knowledge and information that deserves to be spread to the world. How can you place claim on a bunch of 1’s and 0’s?[/quote]
The moment you break the law, you are a criminal, liberal. And yes, you can put a copyright on a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, just as you can on a sequence of letters, words, etc.
You’re a typical anti-american liberal, and your ideology shows. Everything you’ve said is 100% incorrect. How about I steal your car? I mean, after all, you can’t put a copyright on an arrangement of atoms, can you?
The use of honey pots is a viable solution for defending or offending using a torrent technology.
Although I am not an authority on honey pots, as an anti piracy consultant I find “zip torrent” uses a flavor which deploys honey pots.
As a counter measure,Deploying Honey pot for same at the servers hosting torrents is a viable and cost effective solution.
Deploying customized honey pots can thwart these sort of malicious attacks or motives.
But the area of concern is honeypot is deployable for and against based on the objective.
To simplify it can be used for assault and defense.
Lance the co-founder of honey net project is an absolutely down to earth and easily accessible person.
Visit http://wwww.honeynet.org
Some Authorized representative from torrentfreak.com can communicate with him.
This would open new vistas for deploying technology to thwart these type of unscrupulous anti piracy approaches.
I DO NOT Advocate Piracy. I believe in P2P and allied Technologies.
[quote]So I guess stealing is no longer immoral? Typical liberal statement.[/quote]
How is it stealing when you are copying a digital file?
And I am not what you call a liberal, which is just some american buzz word.
[quote]So, according to you, we should make deals with criminals?[/quote]
Just because someone is a breaks the law doesn’t make them bad.
That law can be wrong, and if often is. Like now, where they make an artificial concept called copyright that allows them to sell something and retain control over it after you bought it to maximize profits.
[quote]and I just downloaded Ubuntu (700mb or so) earlier today.[/quote]
Ubuntu is well known to be very very well seeded.
I suggest after using ubuntu for awhile that you should try debian :) Great distro.
Anyway, my point is; stop. Think; is using the law to maximize profits right? Only a hardcore capitalist would say yes :)
[quote comment="133618"][quote comment="133617"]No, we are not criminals. We are legitimate human beings that support the economy. Everything on torrents is intellectual property. It just so happens that some countries do not want knowledge to be shared. Until copyright laws are changed, we are stuck being ignorant monkeys that suffer because we do not have access to knowledge that’s on the internet because some moron has to make profit off of his new book to support a politician. No wonder Americans are so fucking stupid, they have no access to information/knowledge (Yes, I’m American, so don’t retort against my point) Also, I’m an active musician that spreads his music through torrents and asks for no profit in return. It’s knowledge and information that deserves to be spread to the world. How can you place claim on a bunch of 1’s and 0’s?[/quote]
The moment you break the law, you are a criminal, liberal. And yes, you can put a copyright on a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, just as you can on a sequence of letters, words, etc.
You’re a typical anti-american liberal, and your ideology shows. Everything you’ve said is 100% incorrect. How about I steal your car? I mean, after all, you can’t put a copyright on an arrangement of atoms, can you?[/quote]
I suggest you stop calling me a liberal. I would be pissed that someone stole my car. It’s a physical material. A. My car is not copyrighted and B. It is not intellectual property. While breaking the law makes you a criminal, some laws are unjust and don’t make you immoral as you said before. While you may call my views 100% incorrect, that is just your opinion. Many people in the US feel that our laws are absurd and need to be changed so downloading things is just a form of non-violent protest against the unjust laws.
[quote comment="133620"][quote]So I guess stealing is no longer immoral? Typical liberal statement.[/quote]
How is it stealing when you are copying a digital file?
And I am not what you call a liberal, which is just some american buzz word.
[quote]So, according to you, we should make deals with criminals?[/quote]
Just because someone is a breaks the law doesn’t make them bad.
That law can be wrong, and if often is. Like now, where they make an artificial concept called copyright that allows them to sell something and retain control over it after you bought it to maximize profits.
[quote]and I just downloaded Ubuntu (700mb or so) earlier today.[/quote]
Ubuntu is well known to be very very well seeded.
I suggest after using ubuntu for awhile that you should try debian :) Great distro.
Anyway, my point is; stop. Think; is using the law to maximize profits right? Only a hardcore capitalist would say yes :)[/quote]
1) I didn’t download Ubuntu off of a torrent site
2) The copyright law is not immoral. Things like copyrighting, trademarks, patents, etc, help the little guys, like you and I, prevent large companies from taking our ideas and manufacturing them, with out giving credit to us for it.
3) Copying a digital file is theft if it is protected material. Same with anything. It all breaks down to physics, and guess what, a digital file is still a physical object.
4) Liberal/conservative: these are not just buzz words, these are ways of thinking. I’m definitely not a conservative, but the constant idiocracy you find on some “Digged” sites is absurd.
[quote comment="133590"]Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
Didn’t we answer enough of these suck lame questions previously?
Torrenting is not stealing. You can go to the library and “borrow” books/movies from them and bring them back at any time at no cost to you. So what’s different about torrents? You share books/movies/CDs at the library, so why can’t you share things online?
And yes, using the law to maximize profits can be moral; think about the drug industry.
Put all aspects of corruption aside, for a minute, if your liberal conspiracy oriented mind can do so.
There are several benefits of allowing drug companies to protect their drugs, and make huge profits off of it.
In fact, my liberal professor told us that the main reason this is beneficial is because it promotes growth and research. If a drug company couldn’t protect their drug for 14 (maybe it’s 19, but the approval process takes 90 months on average) years, then they wouldn’t have as much as an incentive to make the drugs. Simply because, why put all that money in to research, when someone can steal the idea and compete with you for free?
Now we’re opening a whole other can of worms, and this will stray even farther off topic, but the point remains: you download copyrighted material, with out permission, you’re a criminal, and deserve to be punished.
If you are against copyrighted material, as opposed to being greedy ,cheap, and selfish, then don’t even bother with musicians who copyright their stuff.
[quote comment="133625"]Torrenting is not stealing. You can go to the library and “borrow” books/movies from them and bring them back at any time at no cost to you. So what’s different about torrents? You share books/movies/CDs at the library, so why can’t you share things online?[/quote]
You can listen to music online for free (its called a radio), but you can’t create a copy of it with out payment, that’s the way it works.
I guess anything that anyone creates, is open game for someone else to steal and give away?
You think there’s a difference between a digital file (which is still physical), and other non-digital objects. There is not.
[quote comment="133623"][quote comment="133590"]Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
Didn’t we answer enough of these suck lame questions previously?[/quote]
No, you didn’t.
I knew they call it Torrent Freaks for a reason. Shut up with your verbal ZipTorrent. Your bullshit is not relevant, just more crap to read before finding something useful.
Let me rephrase:
You can’t create a copy of it and spread it to other people, that inhibits the radio station, the library, etc, from making their profit.
Yes, it’s all about profits, and no, that’s not always immoral, and in this case, it isn’t.
Whether or not it’s immoral: You’re breaking the law, and you’re criminals. That’s the definition of a criminal.
[quote]And yes, you can put a copyright on a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, just as you can on a sequence of letters, words, etc.[/quote]
It is an artificial concept. Like I said.
[quote]How about I steal your car?[/quote]
No, but you’re fine to use a magic ray to copy anyones car who lets you and have your own exact copy of it.
No, wait, a car isn’t digital so you can’t do that; completely different :)
Do you not understand the difference between the physical act of taking a car away from someones posession and copying a file from someones computer with their permission, but not the permission of the person who sold it to them in the first place?
[quote]And yes, you can put a copyright on a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, just as you can on a sequence of letters, words, etc.[/quote]
Just because the government says so doesn’t make it a real legitimate concept that should be reconized.
[quote]you download copyrighted material, with out permission, you’re a criminal, and deserve to be punished.[/quote]
No, you’re wrong. Anyone downloading copyright material has permission from the owner (the person in posession of the files), just not the record company who sold it to them.
[quote]You think there’s a difference between a digital file (which is still physical), and other non-digital objects. There is not.[/quote]
Yes, there is.
You cant magically copy a car and have two versions of it. You can do that with a digital file, which lets the owner (person in posession of it) do more things with it, just the record companies don’t like that.
[quote]You’re breaking the law, and you’re criminals. That’s the definition of a criminal.[/quote]
You try make it seem like breaking the law is definitvly bad.
[quote]Yes, it’s all about profits, and no, that’s not always immoral, and in this case, it isn’t.[/quote]
I think using the law to enforce profits is bad. If you can’t profit from something and it is that important to you then don’t do it!
“Put all aspects of corruption aside, for a minute, if your liberal conspiracy oriented mind can do so.”
I really wish you’d stop attacking people like this. You’re being a gigantic cock about your ideas and insulting the way others think. I am trying to be civil and just about my argument but you’re just insulting me. I agree with some of your points. You’re right, stealing is wrong. We shouldn’t download copyrighted things. We should buy everything. But the way that organizations such as the RIAA are going about stopping us are wrong. They are violating our basic rights just to stop people. Often times, the people have done nothing wrong, they haven’t even downloaded files and they get in trouble for downloading by the RIAA. They use unjust means to catch people. They are sneaky about their methods and a lot of the time, their methods are illegal. That’s what people get upset about. Hell, the RIAA got sued a few weeks ago for wrongly accusing an elderly woman of downloading and costing her all this money in legal fees. They’re power/money hungry and they are the people that run our countries. Open your eyes, if you can’t see that money runs our country, you’re blind.
As for drug companies…Fuck they’re the worst of all. They are depriving people of their needed medication because they want more money. If people would help for the sake of helping, many of the world’s problems would be solved. If drug companies could be rewarded for their discoveries, that’s fine. But when they over charge and cause the health care industry here in the US to go to hell, that’s wrong. Drug companies are run by the government. They aren’t necessarily there just for the “good of the people.”
But the way that organizations such as the RIAA are going about stopping us are wrong. They are violating our basic rights just to stop people.
Like I said.. and to the Nitrate orgy guy: you are violating the rights of an artist, and record company, who put the time and money into creating their product.
The MORAL thing to do is: if you don’t like their business plan, don’t participate in it, not to break the law in doing so.
And to Nitrate: So, only things that can’t be copied are illegal to steal? How about I copy your homework in college, and commit plagarism, infact, why don’t all college students do that. Instead of learning something, we should just copy copyrighted material, and turn it in as our own. That’s a great idea.
Your morals are 100% wrong, and a digital file is not purely conceptual: it has physical properties. The sound that plays from it is physical, and the images you see from it are physical, and the 1’s and 0’s its stored and transfered as are physical.
You’re wrong, and you know it, you’ve already lost the argument.
“You’re wrong, and you know it, you’ve already lost the argument.” You are a belligerent fuck that is not willing to accept anyone else’s ideas or views. Telling everyone that they’re wrong because they don’t see eye to eye with you makes you ignorant. Plus, you didn’t respond to my point about the health care situation in the US. Does this mean you agree with me? Do you think I am right? Or am I just wrong because you say so?
As for drug companies…Fuck they’re the worst of all. They are depriving people of their needed medication because they want more money. If people would help for the sake of helping, many of the world’s problems would be solved. If drug companies could be rewarded for their discoveries, that’s fine. But when they over charge and cause the health care industry here in the US to go to hell, that’s wrong. Drug companies are run by the government. They aren’t necessarily there just for the “good of the people.”
I bet you’re one of those people who think the US should have free health care. Look at Canada, for instance. Where do you think tons of Canadians go, ebcause their hospitals are overbooked to perform life saving procedures? They come to America. Now imagine if America had free healthcare, where would all the over booked sick people go then? Oh gee.
Employer sponsored health care is the best bet for the US. That doesn’t mean there won’t be problems, there ALWAYS is.
If you don’t like the way America is, move to Europe (how do you trick a liberal into believing something? tell them that’s what they do in Europe lolol). If you don’t like the business policies of a record company or artist, don’t listen to his/her music.
But breaking the law, a law that does not injure or cause harm to people, because you’re selfish (want it all, but don’t want to pay) is immoral.
I grew up in Europe and I thought it was just as bad, so please don’t just assume that I was born in the US. I also think that the health care system in Canada is a bad idea. I’m also not selfish, I write music for the love of music and share it with people for free. I ask for no money in return. Does that make me selfish?
[quote comment="133643"]“You’re wrong, and you know it, you’ve already lost the argument.” You are a belligerent fuck that is not willing to accept anyone else’s ideas or views. Telling everyone that they’re wrong because they don’t see eye to eye with you makes you ignorant. Plus, you didn’t respond to my point about the health care situation in the US. Does this mean you agree with me? Do you think I am right? Or am I just wrong because you say so?[/quote]
I needed a separate post to say so. The fact of the matter is: you guys don’t understand that if someone produces something, creates something, they have a LEGAL and MORAL right to protect that material. If it’s such highly demanded material, then shit, allow them to deduce profits off of it.
That’s how people get incentive to CREATE. Some people, like yourself, like to do things for fun, like create music and share it. that’s great, and alot of artists do that. There’s nothing wrong with that at all, and infact, that’s very respectable.
My issue is: you guys, mostly “Diggers” have a flawed methodology of thinking, and it perpetuates on each other. Infact, you guys criticize others for not seeing your point of view, yet you only attack conservative media when it lies, or is inaccurate, but never attack liberal media when it lies or is inaccurate (and don’t try to tell me Fox News is the only media that lies).
Downloading songs is completely illegal, and you are ALL CRIMINALS. That’s the bottom line.
“If you don’t like the business policies of a record company or artist, don’t listen to his/her music.” Just because I don’t agree with their business models doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t listen to their music. If I like the music, I’ll listen to it. Also, artists get pennies from every album sold, they don’t profit at all, it’s a bunch of middle men that get all of the money that the artists worked so hard to get.
[quote comment="133645"]I grew up in Europe and I thought it was just as bad, so please don’t just assume that I was born in the US. I also think that the health care system in Canada is a bad idea. I’m also not selfish, I write music for the love of music and share it with people for free. I ask for no money in return. Does that make me selfish?[/quote]
One can be selfish in certain aspects, and not selfish in others, certainly. When it comes to file sharing, yes, you appear selfish.
[quote comment="133647"]“If you don’t like the business policies of a record company or artist, don’t listen to his/her music.” Just because I don’t agree with their business models doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t listen to their music. If I like the music, I’ll listen to it. Also, artists get pennies from every album sold, they don’t profit at all, it’s a bunch of middle men that get all of the money that the artists worked so hard to get.[/quote]
Again, you’re just restating that you’re a criminal, even after you specifically said you’re not a criminal.
If the artists were that poor, and pissed off about it, then less and less musicians would go in the industry, the supply of labor would fall, and the industry would have to change. The fact that you’re suggesting the most basic laws of economics here don’t apply (even though it’s not too much of a competitive market between record labels), suggest that your statement of artists not making enough, is flawed.
Yes, I agree 110% that downloading is illegal with the current state of laws, not necessarily making making it immoral though. Moral and immoral are judged by a certain set of standards that people set for themselves. To some people, shooting a gun at someone is immoral, to others it may not be. It’s all subjective and up to debate.
I only ask that law changes so that information can be spread to the world. I don’t want people to lose money, far from it. Give them their money. But $20 for a CD is lunacy. If I want to support a band I’ll buy the merchandise. Also, as for supporting media, while it may sound very liberal, and it probably will, most of the mainstream media out there is a bunch of lies. Lies that are created for our safety. We could go on for hours and hours as to how the government lies to us for our “safety” but I don’t just attack one type of media, I attack almost all. Freedom of speech has gone out the window, media is now just crafted to appeal to the masses. If we had freedom of speech we would be able to say whatever we wanted, but we can’t. The minute you say something bad about the government, you’re in trouble. That’s not freedom.
You also assume that I download music and file share. It may come across that way, but it is not proven. Also the same with you, I have no way of proving that you have or have not downloaded an “illegal file”
[quote comment="133652"]Yes, I agree 110% that downloading is illegal with the current state of laws, not necessarily making making it immoral though. Moral and immoral are judged by a certain set of standards that people set for themselves. To some people, shooting a gun at someone is immoral, to others it may not be. It’s all subjective and up to debate.
I only ask that law changes so that information can be spread to the world. I don’t want people to lose money, far from it. Give them their money. But $20 for a CD is lunacy. If I want to support a band I’ll buy the merchandise. Also, as for supporting media, while it may sound very liberal, and it probably will, most of the mainstream media out there is a bunch of lies. Lies that are created for our safety. We could go on for hours and hours as to how the government lies to us for our “safety” but I don’t just attack one type of media, I attack almost all. Freedom of speech has gone out the window, media is now just crafted to appeal to the masses. If we had freedom of speech we would be able to say whatever we wanted, but we can’t. The minute you say something bad about the government, you’re in trouble. That’s not freedom.[/quote]
The funny part is: most of the media today is extremely liberal.
How are you in trouble for saying something bad about the government? Being attacked by FoxNews is FoxNews exercising their right to defend their beliefs, just as it is your right to state yours.
The Imus situation, which was stirred by LIBERALS, is an example of violating freedom of speech
I buy almost 50 CDs a month. While it may sound crazy, I love music so much that I do in fact buy that much music. I am just simply defending my opinion that I think downloading music and other files should be legal without any copyright laws.
[quote comment="133655"]I buy almost 50 CDs a month. While it may sound crazy, I love music so much that I do in fact buy that much music. I am just simply defending my opinion that I think downloading music and other files should be legal without any copyright laws.[/quote]
I hate to say it, but this isn’t a matter of opinion. You say a record company shouldn’t be able to sell a CD for $20? Well guess what determines that price? THE MARKET! If it was sooo ridiculous, the demand would be too low to support $20. It’s simple economics, hate to say it.
jai, I’d like to make a few comments.
Liberal, conservative, socialist, I don’t care what you are (and those remarks don’t add to the conversation anyway) — physical property and intellectual property are NOT one and the same and CANNOT be treated as such. There’s no such thing as “stealing” intellectual property. You can copy it, you can reverse engineer it, you can modify it, you can make a profit with it… but you can’t steal it. Stealing implies a loss, and the only way you could literally steal someone’s intellectual property is if you physically stole their only copy of something on paper — and in that case, it’s their own fault for not having a backup copy. Now, YES, you can potentially rob someone of the chance to make a profit FROM their IP, but that would be more along the lines of unfair business competition, which is a far more complex issue than theft.
Furthermore, where in the Constitution (I’m assuming you’re American, correct me if I’m wrong) does it give you the right to make money simply because you put a lot of hard work into an idea? YOU may think that you deserve some reward, but if nobody else thinks that it’s worth paying for, that’s just tough luck. The technology to freely copy just about any type of intellectual property does exist, and it will NOT be going away. Legally or illegally, that technology is going to be used and further developed as much as possible. It is the job of the government to ensure that the technology may be used to the benefit of all — and it is the job of the CORPORATION to figure out how to make a profit UNDER the laws which the government has laid forth. Personally, I think it’s not so much that the corporation isn’t doing its job, but the government. However, eventually brighter minds will prevail and IP laws are going to become much less strict — and when that happens, corporations are going to be in trouble if they can’t figure out a way to modify their business models appropriately.
Also, regarding your comment about copyrighting a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, let me ask a philosophical question: Exactly how much of that sequence has to be copied before it would be considered “theft?” (And yes, I put theft in quotes for a good reason.) Let’s say that I own a copyright for the sequence “0100110110.” If you download “0″ from BT, can I prosecute you? What about “01?” Or “010011011?” I’d love to see your response to this one.
My point, however, is that American laws are not only far too ambiguous to judge cases such as my ten-digit sequence, but they’ve been influenced by the corporations to such a degree that they are no longer to the benefit of everyone — only to the capitalist. While it’s apparent that you are a staunch supporter of capitalism, I’d like you to ask yourself why it’s only the United States (and a couple of other countries, like Canada and the UK to a lesser extent) which have such draconian laws. Sweden doesn’t care. Russia doesn’t care. China only cares if it involves freedom. Why the United States? Please consider expanding your world view and looking at the issues from someone else’s perspective before leaping into a debate with so many gray areas.
I understand the economics, but the record industry complains that they are not selling enough records. If that’s the case, follow simple economic rules and lower the price.
I respect your opinion and agree with a lot of what you say but still would like to hold my original opinions about the matter. Thanks for the entertaining discussion, hopefully no hard feelings mate. I’m off to bed, you have actually swayed my opinion somewhat on some things, believe it or not.
[quote comment="133658"]I understand the economics, but the record industry complains that they are not selling enough records. If that’s the case, follow simple economic rules and lower the price.
I respect your opinion and agree with a lot of what you say but still would like to hold my original opinions about the matter. Thanks for the entertaining discussion, hopefully no hard feelings mate. I’m off to bed, you have actually swayed my opinion somewhat on some things, believe it or not.[/quote]
Ha, you’ve swayed my opinion on such things too. I agree with you, that Media Defender needs to figure out ways that don’t effect others internet usage, and ALSO, that miivi thing sounds more like entrapment, then it does moral.
I also see your side of the story more, when dealing with the morality of the issue. Good debate, and sorry if I came off derogatory, I tend to do that from time to time.
It’s all good mate. I think that if major organizations were able to debate like this, things might change. I too may have said some offensive things. Sorry about that. Haha see kids, we can argue and still be friends. The world isn’t all bad ;)
During my interactions with these anti piracy companies, i found and inferred they are desperate and trying maintain
their reputation(?) by creating hype and cheap tricks likes these.
There is no organized approach either by the hosts of these torrents or these Apex bodies who monitor piracy.
As an anti piracy consultant, I can put it on record that there is only one way to thwart the piracy on P2P networks is to deploy a third degree Assault based on P2P technology on the servers hosting illegal torrents and shut their servers down with no data retrieval possibilities.
Yes the flip side is 15% of the causality would be legal torrent downloaders as per our forecast and beta testing reports.
Piracy is theft so a Crime. This has to be dealt on par with a high profile physical crime committed.
In a physical crime scenario countermeasure ammunition are physical weapons.
In a Digital Crime Like these the weapon has to be loigicaly Digital media technology and web based assaults.
We are trying a workaround in the assault to eliminate the causality of legal torrent downloaders, which is tough but not impossible.
All my posts are data driven.
[quote comment="133662"]During my interactions with these anti piracy companies, i found and inferred they are desperate and trying maintain
their reputation(?) by creating hype and cheap tricks likes these.
There is no organized approach either by the hosts of these torrents or these Apex bodies who monitor piracy.
As an anti piracy consultant, I can put it on record that there is only one way to thwart the piracy on P2P networks is to deploy a third degree Assault based on P2P technology on the servers hosting illegal torrents and shut their servers down with no data retrieval possibilities.
Yes the flip side is 15% of the causality would be legal torrent downloaders as per our forecast and beta testing reports.
Piracy is theft so a Crime. This has to be dealt on par with a high profile physical crime committed.
In a physical crime scenario countermeasure ammunition are physical weapons.
In a Digital Crime Like these the weapon has to be loigicaly Digital media technology and web based assaults.
We are trying a workaround in the assault to eliminate the causality of legal torrent downloaders, which is tough but not impossible.
All my posts are data driven.[/quote]
I’m all for stopping piracy. But I’d like an alternative. You can’t compete with free so just figure out a way to distribute your product for free, but still make money. Impossible? No. Advertise. Attach ads to your products and make money that way while still making your product available to people and spreading the name of the company, thus resulting in even more revenue.
Media Defender is behaving in a morally reprehensible way. Their behavior is akin to taking a machine gun to a crowd of people because their might be a bad guy present.
You should see how slow traffic gets on smaller ISPs thanks to Media Defender. Their attacks slow ALL traffic down because so much poisoned data is spread. Their behavior affects every single user of the internet, particularly those with “small pipes”, and they don’t give a damn who they hurt.
Jai, if you’re hoping for credibility and to sway some opinion, I suggest that you drop the ridiculous political attacks. I was going to come away from this discussion with something until you started stabbing your Liberal voodoo doll.
And if you’re hoping to keep your blood pressure down, I suggest not trolling torrent-oriented websites, largely because you know exactly what you’re going to see.
I have read all the posts made by the 2 going on about copy right infringement and how those who do are criminals. I will say something that the RIAA did right that the MPAA should follow suit. You can now legally download music for pennies on a dollar and copy the music to disk as you see fit. Here recently I downloaded a movie because it was sold out at the local store. My wife really wanted it so I went here online and found the movie legally mind you and downloaded it. Here lies the problem. Once you download the movie you can’t do anything w/ it but watch it on your computer. DRM prevents you from putting on disk to watch in a stand alone player. Now I am not only stuck w/ a digital file that I can’t do anything with but I feel cheated because I spent just as much for the movie online as I would if I had actually got the movie at the store. Now if the Mpaa would just follow suite and just make there product available at a cheaper rate so that you can download the movie and make a legal copy of this file so you can do as you may ie.. so you can copy the disk and play it on your stand alone player as the RIAA did with music files then I believe for the most part the issue of piracy will not be as prevalant as it is today. Some may think I am wrong but I think that it is a vallid point.
[quote comment="133654"][quote comment="133652"]Yes, I agree 110% that downloading is illegal with the current state of laws, not necessarily making making it immoral though. Moral and immoral are judged by a certain set of standards that people set for themselves. To some people, shooting a gun at someone is immoral, to others it may not be. It’s all subjective and up to debate.
I only ask that law changes so that information can be spread to the world. I don’t want people to lose money, far from it. Give them their money. But $20 for a CD is lunacy. If I want to support a band I’ll buy the merchandise. Also, as for supporting media, while it may sound very liberal, and it probably will, most of the mainstream media out there is a bunch of lies. Lies that are created for our safety. We could go on for hours and hours as to how the government lies to us for our “safety” but I don’t just attack one type of media, I attack almost all. Freedom of speech has gone out the window, media is now just crafted to appeal to the masses. If we had freedom of speech we would be able to say whatever we wanted, but we can’t. The minute you say something bad about the government, you’re in trouble. That’s not freedom.[/quote]
The funny part is: most of the media today is extremely liberal.
How are you in trouble for saying something bad about the government? Being attacked by FoxNews is FoxNews exercising their right to defend their beliefs, just as it is your right to state yours.
The Imus situation, which was stirred by LIBERALS, is an example of violating freedom of speech[/quote]
No, the Imus situation was onset by advertisers that didn’t want to support the show anymore. It was a money deal and nothing more.
@ jai
Why don’t you just go FUCK yourself ey?
Bloody twat.
[quote comment="133676"]I have read all the posts made by the 2 going on about copy right infringement and how those who do are criminals. I will say something that the RIAA did right that the MPAA should follow suit. You can now legally download music for pennies on a dollar and copy the music to disk as you see fit. Here recently I downloaded a movie because it was sold out at the local store. My wife really wanted it so I went here online and found the movie legally mind you and downloaded it. Here lies the problem. Once you download the movie you can’t do anything w/ it but watch it on your computer. DRM prevents you from putting on disk to watch in a stand alone player. Now I am not only stuck w/ a digital file that I can’t do anything with but I feel cheated because I spent just as much for the movie online as I would if I had actually got the movie at the store. Now if the Mpaa would just follow suite and just make there product available at a cheaper rate so that you can download the movie and make a legal copy of this file so you can do as you may ie.. so you can copy the disk and play it on your stand alone player as the RIAA did with music files then I believe for the most part the issue of piracy will not be as prevalant as it is today. Some may think I am wrong but I think that it is a vallid point.[/quote]
No, you make a very very good valid point, and in my opinion, you’re correct.
Like I said before: law enforcement hinders law obiders also, it’s the way it works. MediaDefender could probably do more to not interfere with innocent users, but are there ANY stats on how MediaDefender has slowed down normal users? Are there any stats at all?
so i was following this thread when
some moron ‘jai’ decided to hijack
and i am totaly lost. hey ‘jai’ check urself into a mental facility and tear up the paperwork…can you ddo that??
[quote comment="133685"]so i was following this thread when
some moron ‘jai’ decided to hijack
and i am totaly lost. hey ‘jai’ check urself into a mental facility and tear up the paperwork…can you ddo that??[/quote]
Why, because I’m not a liberal?
(actually I probably am)
Ziptorrent really sucks because I remember a time when I was downloading something and was hit by one of their attacks. Not only did it pollute the torrent(0 KB/s) I couldn’t even surf the internet. Then I installed the latest Peer guardian and it fixed everything.
My point is that I have a very fast fiber connection and it easily crippled my internet connection. They must be wasting so much bandwidth with their pollution.
I would much rather buy the product at a more sinceable rate than hide behind a Ip blocking tool. I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to the issue. Do I feel bad? Yes and No. Yes I was taught not to steal, and No as I feel that being that when you try to do right you are hinder’d to do so because of ignorance. You or anybody only needs a 1 mb connection for streaming video. A 8mb,10mb,or 12 mb connection that any service provider sells knowing that it is being used for just this topic is not totally out of the question. Why produce the technology for the general public if you don’t want it to be used? Why does sony provide the general public w/ burnable media when for the most part they know what it is being used for? All these questions prove somewhat of a point. They lose money in one area but gain it in another. Soon enough if at all we are going to have to call the law from our own homes to ask permission to go to the john.
To be straight forward and blunt MPAA and RIAA are a bunch of morons,who are not clear about what they are suppose to do. They just lobby with the senators and the government to pass legislations and frighten people around.
This is based on my interactions with them and their indifferent attitude to wards their so called objective of thwarting piracy.
Either they are ignorant about P2P technologies or park themselves and create a hype by partonising companies like media defender and sorts.
They are capable of corrupting genuine technologists by way of bribing obscene amount of money.
In fact i have been interacting with another smart guy who has taken advantage of MPAA situation. His product PirateEye has been appraised as a feasible solution for camcorder recording thwarting.
I feel media defender is a causality of MPAA bribing tactics.
RIAA are a bunch of rouges too. i do not want to quote them. because they are not worth mentioning.
I do have all the mail correspondence with MPAA.MPA,RIAA and their replies which reflects their ignorance and exploiting technologists and technology to their favour by way of bribing.
The Solution is: to have a new breed of people who can reflect and think before acting and are sound technically too. If a team of these people represent to fight piracy there is light at the end of the tunnel.
As lamented P2P networking is NOT the Major Revenue Loss DOMAIN for the MPAA or RIAA.
The Piracy Chain for the loss of major chunk is something on the lines of a drug cartel or Mafia.
These are the people MPAA and RIAA should be fighting against.
The illegal P2P downloaders are more of inquisitive and use this domain for improvising technologies.
But The Motive and the Act of the illegal content downloaders cannot be justified.They are pirates.
All my Post are Data Driven.
If these “media defender” companies really just hop IP ranges all the time, they must be making life hell for ARIN.
With new class of IP range to be rolled out shortly it would be quite tough for pirates and anti piracy companies.
The emerging technology is amazing worth keeping track of it and equip ourself for the action.
All my posts are Data driven.
I am a long time user of these networks and will admit to my fair share of downloading of copyrighted software, music and movies.
BUT… I feel the need to point out that the only things I’ve ever downloaded are things that I had absolutely no intention of ever purchasing anyway and furthermore, having had a chance to test the full product without having to know someone else who paid full (often absurdly high) price for said product has lead me to purchasing the ones that I actually enjoyed.
Movie theaters are hell. I do not attend movie because the general public ruins the experience for me with incessant talking, yelling, screaming children, cell-phone answering, wrapper tearing, loud chewing and getting up and walking in front of me twelve times during the film in order to use the restroom or buy more loud and obnoxious food products are over-inflated prices. Furthermore, I have rarely been willing to pay more than $10 for a video or DVD of anything. On the rare occasion that I find a movie that I enjoy and particularly when I find one that I’d actually like to share with others, I purchase it and allow my friends/family to borrow it or watch it with me (which is essentially the exact same idea as file sharing).
I am a hardcore gamer and have been for the last 21 years (no, I am not 21 years old, thank you). Over those years I have wasted thousands of dollars (if not tens of thousands) on software that appeared promising but proved to be horrendous after the fact of purchase. Often times these games have been played once or twice and never touched again, thus wasting the $50 or more that I had to spend on it in the first place. On the rare occasion that I have downloaded a game and enjoyed it, I have purchased the game.
Music is almost the worst offender in this sense, since just about every CD or cassette I have ever purchased had 75% crap and filler content and 25% decent music. Again, on the rare occasion that I actually enjoy the music that I hear, I purchase it for continued listening.
I have never distributed any of the content that I have downloaded, I have never been a member of a “warez” or “piracy” group and I have rarely shared anything I’ve downloaded with others. The consumers are NOT the problem here. The humanity and artistry being taken out of our media just to make a quick buck is the culprit. Movies, music and software are largely worthless these days and it’s because the numbers are all that are given any thought in most cases. Business ruins art every time it tries to get involved with it and it’s never been more apparent than now. P2P sharing does not hurt the companies’ bottom lines because most of these people never intended to purchase the product they’re receiving in the first place and furthermore, they MIGHT purchase it once they’ve actually had a chance to experience it. I really can’t imagine what these companies expect to get out of this persecution except maybe to recuperate some of their losses resulting from over-staffed legal departments.
@jai
in countries where file-sharing is addressed by law, it is covered in the main by civil procedures. Breaching one of these laws is *not* a criminal offense so therefore any infringer is generally not a criminal (unless they facilitated or distributed material covered by the Family Entertainment Copyright Act, in the United States). The world is a huge place and different laws apply in different locales.
For the sake of clarity, if you are to label file-sharers as criminals, it would be helpful - crucial even - for you to indicate which country’s laws you are referring to when doing so.
First off, I can’t believe I actually read the whole argument that Jai was involved with. I must say Jai, even though I have no idea whatsoever what a liberal is (had to wiki it), I must say, most of your comments were attacks on liberalism and not on the issue of whether downloading torrents is correct or not. If you were to take the whole idea of liberalism, capitalism, and other -isms out of the argument, imo you would have no argument at all whatsoever. Being a 15 year old I can’t say much, I only understood about 50% of the content within the argument, but Jai compared to Nitrate and Berethend has not made as many valid points and has often stirred off topic to insult liberals.
[quote comment="133644"]I bet you’re one of those people who think the US should have free health care. Look at Canada, for instance. Where do you think tons of Canadians go, ebcause their hospitals are overbooked to perform life saving procedures? They come to America. Now imagine if America had free healthcare, where would all the over booked sick people go then? Oh gee.[/quote]
Please do continue to believe this. We’d rather you not soil our lovely, relatively pollution free country with your type. Enjoy your overpriced, underdelivered medical system with the carefree abandon of someone completely ignorant to the reality of it. By all means do not see the movie SiCKO, as it may cause irreparable ego damage.
[quote]Employer sponsored health care is the best bet for the US.[/quote]
Yep, nothing like locking in the wage slaves so they can’t shift jobs without losing their medical. Hey, here’s another great idea… how about you open up a store in the company? Your employees could buy their food and everything there, and you could pay them with little tickets or scrip. Golly gee, wouldn’t that just be a FREE MARKET BONANZA!
[quote](how do you trick a liberal into believing something? tell them that’s what they do in Europe lolol).[/quote]
How do you trick a right-wing nutjob into believing something? Call him a terrorist if he doesn’t believe it. Or tell him it’s what jesus would do. Or flash it subliminally on screen so he absorbs it while compulsively masturbating to video documentary footage of Mi Lai.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and hazzard a few guesses. You’re somewhere in your early to mid twenties, old enough to think you know something but young enough not to have experienced anything worth talking about. That state will probably persist if you hang out on boards preaching to people you know will never accept your viewpoint. For some reason, you’ve got a bug up your ass about ‘liberals’. Probably because some indie chick at school giggled at your laughably small penis, but who knows. And almost certainly, YOU are the reason why your mother drinks heavily.
Let me lay out a little reality for you in very very short words, perhaps you’ll come to eventually understand things.
1) You’re not rich. You never will be. You may THINK you’re rich. You may fancy yourself a budding entrepreneur who’ll make a billion with some clever idea. You won’t. Later on, 20, 30 years down the road when you’re drowing your sorrows or fucking the pain away with some skeezy halfbreed you’ve called wife in between poisoning your children’s minds towards “liberals”, perhaps you’ll realize it.
2) Copying music is not ’stealing’ in the conventional sense, as someone making a copy of my CD “neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket”. What is it? Something other, which the RIAA et al are desperately DESPERATELY trying to label as ‘theft’, but just can’t quite seem to make it stick. Why? Because the vast majority of people know that if they make a copy of a CD for their buddy, they still have the original… thus, the only thing accomplished is the harassment of otherwise law-abiding, tax paying citizens and the introduction of a brief, vague feeling of guilt that lasts for all of 3 seconds before firing up that copy of Harry Potter.
3) For-profit does not always mean ‘best’. Yes, I know Ayn Rand makes you wet and you probably dreamily doodle “I
Haha, it’s funny! What jai is doing to this thread is exactly what MediaDefender is trying to do to torrents. Make so much noise that people give up and go away.
In the future, please ignore the trolls
Hahaha,
The pic is Shu’s mod……
GO SHU!!
YAAAH FOR LEECHING :)
^ As he said… it’s a friggin leecher mod.
There is no “send bad data” option or anything like that 0_o
Jai, all your idiotic american right-wing liberal-bashing makes me puke .
“typical anti-american liberal” blablabla …
[quote comment="133758"]^ As he said… it’s a friggin leecher mod.
There is no “send bad data” option or anything like that 0_o[/quote]
No but as I said people are repoting it in some cases. I have yet to see proof of this though. I would asume it would just fake reports to artificial increase traffic.
Imagine the damage hundreds of these can do to a torrent, minutes after release. All running at once, fighting for the torrent. That’s whats happening.
brings the torrent to it’s knees. Nobody sees any traffic as the bot’s using the mod recieve all the traffic. The uploader who reported this said the the only way to fight this, if a torrent is taken is for a lot of quality seeders uploading huge amounts of traffic to fight them off.
Media defender found these mods and are manipulating them to there own ends.
Find a torrent that has been taken over by these and see what I’m talking about.
BTW, it IS possible to config it to send bad data. I’m not going into how here but it most definetly can be done.
Check out this torrent.
http://www.mininova.org/tor/793963
Load it up and watch what happens. If you already have the block list in peerguardian, watch peerguardian going nuts with blocks. Temp disable peerguardian and watch all the ziptorrent bots attach.
Note how many there are. Litteraly hundreds of bots.
[quote comment="133590"]Again, nobody answers:
Why is this so wrong for MediaDefender to do? They are catching criminals.[/quote]
They are wasting my resources, what they are doing is just as criminal in nature as anyone downloading what they wish. just because some countries honour stupid copyrights for decades doesnt mean all do. What they are doing is CRIMINAL though in most nations
[quote comment="133771"]… What they are doing is CRIMINAL though in most nations[/quote]
This would be called a DDoS attack (Distributed Denial of Service)…
Whatever laws that may be broken through copyright violations, they pale in comparison to the laws being broken for conducting this type of attack.
The former, calls for a fine.
The latter? Prison.
– Smoovious
Has anyone considered that Jai could be a Media Defender employee. If not Media Defender than some other like minded company. Why would someone of his views be Trolling a Torrent site. Ignore him he is just here to cause trouble.
Lets keep the discussion on point. Which is how do we work on beating them again.
*Just want to say thanks to the community for keeping BT alive*
[quote]1) I didn’t download Ubuntu off of a torrent site[/quote]
Then why mention it?
[quote]Things like copyrighting, trademarks, patents, etc, help the little guys, like you and I, prevent large companies from taking our ideas and manufacturing them, with out giving credit to us for it.[/quote]
You’re joking, right? Copyrights artificially inflate the market value (i’m not a fan of capitalism though) of something so that a big company can make millions off an artist for its own executives.
Trademarks have nothing to do with this, thats just branding and such.
Now Patents!?! Do you understand what goes on with patents? There are massive companies set up just to claim random patents in hope that they can sue someone who used, uses, or will use that idea (nomatter how generic or simple it is). Microsoft takes out patents on things that other people made!
[quote]3) Copying a digital file is theft if it is protected material. [/quote]
Protected by an artificial concept, and therefore not valid.
[quote]these are not just buzz words, [/quote]
Liberal is, atleast in america. It’s just something you use to insult people; “You pinko commie liberal terrorist!”.
[quote]Like I said.. and to the Nitrate orgy guy: [/quote]
You’re quite the odd felow.
[quote]The MORAL thing to do is: if you don’t like their business plan, don’t participate in it, not to break the law in doing so.[/quote]
If the record companies can’t make a profit doing something, and it is that important to them, they shouldn’t be in business! They shouldn’t try to use the law to enforce profits.
If you sell something to someone you should no longer be able to control it.
If the record companies wern’t there then maybe it would open some more room for independent artists who love music to spread it to the world.
[quote]So, only things that can’t be copied are illegal to steal? [/quote]
Stealing is the physical act of taking something away from someone, so that you have it and they don’t.
How many times do I have to tell you the difference? =P
[quote]How about I copy your homework in college, and commit plagarism, infact, why don’t all college students do that. Instead of learning something, we should just copy copyrighted material, and turn it in as our own. That’s a great idea.[/quote]
That would be vaguely similar to someone on bittorrent releasing a movie but taking out all the credits, replacing them with credits that said they made it, and pretending they made the movie.
I’ve never seen a movie on bittorrent like that. Have you?
[quote]Your morals are 100% wrong, [/quote]
Self righteousness strikes back!
Why do you get to definitvly decide what is right and wrong?
[quote]and a digital file is not purely conceptual: it has physical properties. The sound that plays from it is physical, and the images you see from it are physical, and the 1’s and 0’s its stored and transfered as are physical.[/quote]
But some properties of that digital file allows it to be copied very easily, since it isn’t actual music or a movie but a digital representation that gets interpreted by a media player to come on your screen and out your speakers.
[quote]You’re wrong, and you know it, you’ve already lost the argument.[/quote]
You couldn’t be more wrong about that :)
[quote]You are a belligerent fuck that is not willing to accept anyone else’s ideas or views. [/quote]
Well said :)
[quote]I bet you’re one of those people who think the US should have free health care. Look at Canada, for instance. Where do you think tons of Canadians go, ebcause their hospitals are overbooked to perform life saving procedures? They come to America. Now imagine if America had free healthcare, where would all the over booked sick people go then? Oh gee.[/quote]
I’ve never heard of anyone in canada going to america for healthcare. I’d rather not have to worry about money if I break my back or something.
[quote]If you don’t like the business policies of a record company or artist, don’t listen to his/her music.[/quote]
Like I said before: If they don’t like the ammount of profits they can make, they shouldn’t use the law to artificially make more profit.
[quote]because you’re selfish (want it all, but don’t want to pay) is immoral.[/quote]
You’re making quite the assumption here.
[quote]I write music for the love of music and share it with people for free. I ask for no money in return. Does that make me selfish?[/quote]
It makes you respected by many, because too many artists are in it just for the money and not for the love of it. When someone is in it for the money they will only make music good enough to make money from and not the best they can do.
[quote]If it’s such highly demanded material, then shit, allow them to deduce profits off of it.[/quote]
They try to make demand for it by using the law to get rid of any other way of obtaining it.
[quote]they have a LEGAL and MORAL right to protect that material. [/quote]
No, they have no right to control something after they sell it to you.
[quote]mostly “Diggers” [/quote]
Digger?
[quote]yet you only attack conservative media when it lies, or is inaccurate, but never attack liberal media when it lies or is inaccurate (and don’t try to tell me Fox News is the only media that lies).[/quote]
All american media has a capitalist bias.
[quote]Downloading songs is completely illegal, and you are ALL CRIMINALS. That’s the bottom line.[/quote]
No, downloading copyrighted songs in some countries is illegal.
Like I said, that doesn’t make it wrong.
[quote]When it comes to file sharing, yes, you appear selfish.[/quote]
Sharing culture to the world is selfish?
You do know why it is called file sharing, right? File sharers don’t just download, but also spend alot of time uploading.
There are a massive ammount of people in the file sharing world doing things for the benefit of all. They don’t get paid for it but since it helps everyone they do it anyway.
So don’t you call file sharing selfish :)
[quote]If the artists were that poor, and pissed off about it, then less and less musicians would go in the industry, the supply of labor would fall, and the industry would have to change.[/quote]
But that isn’t happening because of… Guess what? That artificial inflation of value because of copyright :)
It has allowed record execs to come in and make millions from other peoples work and think they are entitled to it.
[quote]The funny part is: most of the media today is extremely liberal.[/quote]
Ahh, the old typical american; scared of the “liberal” boogeyman.
All big american media has a capitalist bias. To get your voice heard in america you have to be capitalist to get to the top and therefore only a capitalist voice comes out.
[quote]How are you in trouble for saying something bad about the government? [/quote]
BONG HITS 4 JESUS
[quote]I hate to say it, but this isn’t a matter of opinion. You say a record company shouldn’t be able to sell a CD for $20? Well guess what determines that price? THE MARKET! If it was sooo ridiculous, the demand would be too low to support $20. It’s simple economics, hate to say it.[/quote]
That price was INFLATED muchly by copyright and is not a fair price.
Do you understand that?
[quote]If that’s the case, follow simple economic rules and lower the price.[/quote]
They don’t do that though. They keep the price up and whine about bad sales and try to get the government to go harder on piracy so all the record execs can buy new cars.
[quote]Piracy is theft so a Crime.[/quote]
Piracy isn’t theft :P
Simple: Charge a fair price for things and people will buy them. Don’t charge a fair price and people won’t buy them, but they might download it.
[quote]Some may think I am wrong but I think that it is a vallid point.[/quote]
It’s a very good point. By putting restrictions on what you sell it only makes it worse and makes piracy seem better.
I’ve read all above comments and I just got to say.
**** some people can be so ****** stupid!
piracy is NOT theft, it’s called copyright infrigment!
In Sweden (my country! :D) It’s even legal.
At least you won’t have to worry about losing a copyright infringement case. If the ziptorrent client uploads “blank files and data noise” then you aren’t actually downloading any copyrighted material from them.
So what if they log your ip for downloading a blank file. I am sure that they cannot claim any lost revenue due to a blank file being shared.
So technically, you arn’t actully cataching anything except bandwidth wasters, they arn’t sharing and material that is protected by copyright.
I read about half the comments and I got sick of Jai’s self righteousness. Quit your preaching, honestly nobody wants to hear it. Not because of the immoralality of the situation but because you are coming off as arrogant and frankly a troll.
What’s considered illegal doesn’t necessarily coincide with what is morally right. This topic isn’t about whether it’s ok to download copyright content so stop trying to change the subject. Go find another soapbox. :P
[quote comment="133933"]I read about half the comments and I got sick of Jai’s self righteousness. Quit your preaching, honestly nobody wants to hear it. Not because of the immoralality of the situation but because you are coming off as arrogant and frankly a troll.
What’s considered illegal doesn’t necessarily coincide with what is morally right. This topic isn’t about whether it’s ok to download copyright content so stop trying to change the subject. Go find another soapbox. :P[/quote]
Same here read the most… ;) indeed annoying.
If a threat arises, the trackers will deal with it.. the ones that want leechers anyhow.
And oh yes, don’t feed that troll jai anymore, he’s clearly out to provoke an off topic conversation that nearly deralied the whole thread. So, in the future, do not engage such people please.
Yarrr! avast! there be trolls beneath the rolling waves of the great Pirate Sea.
Jai,
I usually don’t feed the trolls, but I have to point out one thing. Don’t use the word “theft” when you actually mean “IP infringement”. I know “theft” is more catchy, but try to get your facts right before you start flaming.
The earlier misprint of the ip ranges — by incorrectly including multicast ranges — has caused µTorrent v1.7.1 to be wrongfully banned from some torrent sites. (Because µTorrent was “willingly” trying to connect to these hostiles.)
Those ranges have since been removed, but it is worthy of a follow-up story to correct the misunderstandings this caused.
Looks like uTorrent is being banned on allot of trackers because this crap!
here is a list i have been using to block ziptorrent
ziptorrent:64.62.145.130-64.62.145.165
ziptorrent:65.19.131.0-65.19.131.85
ziptorrent:66.160.133.0-66.160.133.199
ziptorrent:87.117.250.0-87.117.250.150
ziptorrent:216.218.0.100-216.218.184.199
ziptorrent:216.218.190.0-216.218.199.255
ziptorrent:38.99.252.0-38.99.252.255
ziptorrent:38.99.253.1-38.99.253.200
ziptorrent:38.100.24.0-38.100.24.255
ziptorrent:38.100.25.0-38.100.25.255
ziptorrent:38.100.26.0-38.100.26.255
ziptorrent:38.100.134.0-38.100.135.255
ziptorrent:63.216.0.0-63.223.255.255
ziptorrent:64.62.145.0-64.62.145.255
ziptorrent:64.62.214.0-64.62.214.255
ziptorrent:64.93.64.0-64.93.64.255
ziptorrent:65.19.131.0-65.19.131.85
ziptorrent:65.19.143.0-65.19.143.255
ziptorrent:65.120.42.0-65.120.42.255
ziptorrent:66.117.5.0-66.117.5.255
ziptorrent:66.160.133.0-66.160.133.199
ziptorrent:66.160.158.0-66.160.158.255
ziptorrent:66.180.192.0-66.180.207.255
ziptorrent:66.186.192.0-66.186.223.255
ziptorrent:66.198.35.0-66.198.35.255
ziptorrent:81.230.187.01-81.230.187.99
ziptorrent:87.117.250.0-87.117.250.255
ziptorrent:100.0.0.0-115.255.255.255
ziptorrent:129.47.9.0-129.47.9.255
ziptorrent:154.37.0.0-154.37.255.255
ziptorrent:206.80.0.01-206.80.99.99
ziptorrent:207.45.196.0-207.45.196.255
ziptorrent:208.10.23.0-208.10.23.255
ziptorrent:208.10.29.0-208.10.29.255
ziptorrent:209.66.117.0-209.66.117.255
ziptorrent:209.133.121.0-209.151.247.255
ziptorrent:209.133.122.0-209.133.122.255
ziptorrent:209.151.247.0-209.151.247.255
ziptorrent:216.218.0.100-216.218.184.199
ziptorrent:216.218.190.0-216.218.199.255
ziptorrent:224.0.0.0-239.255.255.255
ziptorrent:240.0.0.0-255.255.255.255
Why would utorrent be connecting to multicast ip ranges?
It should only connect to the tracker, seeds and peers.
I block all IANA reserved, multicast, etc ranges, and i use every blocklist at bluetack, not just at the PG level, but at the gateway firewall level as well. Use MoBlock if you use Linux, PG if you use windows.
Maybe its time to write a honeypot client that creates hundreds of fake torrents based on a dictionary of movies, using files full of random data, then seeds them for a couple of MB. That should tie up those Ziptorrent resources indefinetly. If everyone using bt ran a client like that on the side, we could cripple Media Defender within days.
zed:
Because of the new feature of local peer discovery.
maybe you should read the changelog and or the feature list once in a while?
please disregard everything I have said. I sucks cocks.
Man there is nothing funnier than some moron who thinks he is ‘protesting’ by downloading and WATCHING movies. haaaaaa. Ghandi would be so proud indeed. I’m going to go protest the candy industry by stealing a snickers and then enjoying it. I’m not going to steal it and give it to the poor, I’m going to steal it and give it to myself, just like the other virtual ‘protesters’ here. You just don’t want to pay for shit, and now you’re trying to attach noble intent to your theft.
Holy shit, do you really believe such pretentious bullshit? Since your heart bleeds so much for the poor and downtrodden, why do you spend so much time in a fantasy land of movies and games? Why aren’t you in Africa feeding the hungry?
I’m going to go to Putt Putt Golf and protest the war by enjoying a good game of mini golf. Right….Then afterwards I’ll watch the new Simpsons movie and ‘protest’ something else.
Fucking morons.
I loaded the lists for media defender and ziptorrent into my PeerGuardian. I have found that these sites continue to try to connect to my computer long after I have closed my uTorrent. Is there a way to get them to disconnect after uTorrent is shut down? The only way that I have found is to turn off the adsl modem to change my IP address.
BITTORRENT IS UNSTOPPABLE
people who share files are not thieves
never stop sharing
to stop sharing is to kill p2p
get my drift?
go pirates
go go go
oh wait, we’re not pirates matey
we’re just people who do whatever the fuck we like whether someone likes it or not. who the hell cares?
only idiots get brainwashed into thinking that sharing is stealing
if that is true then breathing air is stealing
copying someone is stealing /sarcasm
if u just did a copy and paste
it’s not stealing it’s called
copycats lol
I loaded the lists for media defender and ziptorrent into my PeerGuardian. I have found that these sites continue to try to connect to my computer long after I have closed my uTorrent. Is there a way to get them to disconnect after uTorrent is shut down? The only way that I have found is to turn off the adsl modem to change my IP address.
guys can i copy the adressees above and paste it in notepad and add it to peerguardian…is that gonna work????
@ sininblud..
Yes it will..
On a side note …
These ranges still needed?
PG2 shows that I am blocking ziptorrents even when my torrent client is closed. Is this normal?
WTF!!!! After reading the PeerGuardian manual online, I manual created the list posted on this page…almost! It took almost an hour to get almost all of the list entered into the list manager. BUT…I hit enter once again after entering an end range and it closed the list manager!!! Now WTF!? Is there no f*%@ing way to copy and paste the damn thing!? Or an URL for updates?? I’m not spending another hour (probably longer this time since i have to be careful not to hit enter that one extra time!) doing this!!! AAAARGH!!
Jai == loltroll
EPIC FAIL
yes, ziptorrent connection even when my torrent client is closed .. silly bastards are flooding my connection ! :)
Thanks for the IP ranges. It seemed to have worked. I’m not even downloading any copyrighted material. The funny thing is that it didn’t stop bitorrent at all just my ability to surf the net while the client is running.
Media Defender is lame. Thanks for slightly annoying me
Jai:
What we observe in all of this is the normal reaction of those who have reached the limit of endurance, wrought and imposed upon them by a corporate-capitalist society, by the state, and resulting in a counter-economic movement. It is not liberal, it is libertarian. That you don’t know or recognize the difference is not surprising.
Pirating may be illegal, but as others have suggested, illegality is an imposition of its own against the freedom of the marketplace to decide what it will and will not endure. As Thoreau put forth, “Law never made man a whit more just; and by means of their respect for it, even the well disposed are daily made agents of injustice.”
These corporations and the general media benefit by profiting off the backs of market producers. Off the artists who create. Off the average fellow who they employ and market their wares too. Off the imposition of an ever bloated and collusive bureaucracy whose interest is increasingly aligned with its corporate bedfellows. All to the demure, disgust, and disdain of the remainder of us who are compelled to become criminal, by the mere definition of statists like yourself, yet we bring about and establish a precedence that will affect your own personal freedoms into the future–as much as you seem vested in the opposite.
What we see here is the Agorist depiction of counter-economics at work. A revolution … a *market* revolution … that rejects unsound statism (as it views all such things as inherently unsound), undermining it to the benefit and freedom of everyone. It exists because, as H.L. Mencken explains, “Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.”
The market–the real free market–operates and will continue to do so for as long as the state exists. Samuel Konkin elaborates with, “… the more decadent (statist) the capitalism, the more virulent the reaction and the larger the Counter-Economy.”
Hence, the popularity of illegal torrents and pirating of movies, music, and games–among other things–are a natural and expected, even thankful reaction to the decadency of the corporate marriage to the state, both operating in the name of interfering with the freedom and plundering the pockets of the average person.
You should be cheering your fellows, not scolding them, because in irony, they are the ones bringing you freedom–if you are to rely on the state to pronounce as much for you, you will be waiting a very long time, indeed.
“Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found the exact amount of injustice and wrongdoing which will be imposed on them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” –Frederick Douglass
WE NEED TO BLOCK THE MOVIE INDUSTRY AND STOP THEM SO I FOUND SOME NEW ZIPTORRENT IP’S TO PUT IN YOUR PEERGUARDIAN BLOCK LIST, JUST COPY AND PAST THE LIST BELOW AND PUT THEM IN A WORD PAD, AND ADD IT TO YOUR PEERGUARDIAN BLOCK LIST… TRUST ME THIS WORKS!!!
ziptorrent:75.160.0.0 - 75.175.255.255
ziptorrent:208.109.0.0 - 208.109.255.255
ziptorrent:78.129.136.0-78.129.136.255
ziptorrent:78.129.137.0-78.129.137.255
ziptorrent:83.142.224.0-83.142.224.255
ziptorrent:87.117.251.0-87.117.251.255
PS JAI - I have an itellectual response to your misguided, pontificating know-it-all opinions - Go F%CK Yourself you idiot. This forum is clearly not intended for people with your opinions. So go someplace else where you and your buddies can all get together and congratulate yourslves on your myopic view of the world. Bye-Bye now Loser.
Azureus is relesed under GNU rite? Then where is the modified source code :D
[quote comment="139052"]Man there is nothing funnier than some moron who thinks he is ‘protesting’ by downloading and WATCHING movies. haaaaaa. Ghandi would be so proud indeed. I’m going to go protest the candy industry by stealing a snickers and then enjoying it. I’m not going to steal it and give it to the poor, I’m going to steal it and give it to myself, just like the other virtual ‘protesters’ here. You just don’t want to pay for shit, and now you’re trying to attach noble intent to your theft.
Holy shit, do you really believe such pretentious bullshit? Since your heart bleeds so much for the poor and downtrodden, why do you spend so much time in a fantasy land of movies and games? Why aren’t you in Africa feeding the hungry?
I’m going to go to Putt Putt Golf and protest the war by enjoying a good game of mini golf. Right….Then afterwards I’ll watch the new Simpsons movie and ‘protest’ something else.
Fucking morons.[/quote]
Mmhmm. Now out of all these posts, you find HOW many using the word “protest” in ANY context..? You might want to watch that blood pressure of yours, Mr. Apoplexy.
@ Jai: A couple of points come to mind:
1) If the price for CDs is set by the market, how come the music industry titans all settled a LARGE class-action lawsuit (initiated by Tower Records). To quote The Daily Texan, “Bertelsmann Music Group Inc., EMI Music Group Inc., Warner Elektra Atlantic Corp., Sony Music Entertainment Inc. and Universal Music Group Inc. were accused of preventing retail outlets, such as Best Buy, from selling discounted music.” They settled for over $67 million. So price-fixing is moral and legal, eh?
Here’s another way to look at the price of CDs and DVDs. Audio cassette and VHS video tapes are nearly always less expensive, no? Well, why? They have moving parts and must be ASSEMBLED by a person or robot (CDs/DVDs are stamped en masse by a press). In addition, they have a lower demand/circulation, which should drive prices HIGHER as production becomes more expensive (economies of scale).
Thing is, if I go buy an audio cassette, it’s generally 2/3 the price of the CD. Hmmmmmm… If all the cost overhead is in the licensing, as the RIAA/MPAA claim, how come the more-expensive-to-manufacture medium costs LESS?
- The “liberal media” is a fiction; it’s a boogeyman used to scare the conservative base and to explain why right-wing leaders’ peccadilloes and gaffes appear on every news outlet. Tell me how Fox News and MSNBC are sooo liberal, for example; I’ll laugh in your face.
Personally, I DO think piracy is illegal but I also DO NOT CARE. After getting burnt by EULAs that state that by opening the package (so I can READ the damn thing) I’ve accepted all of its terms and conditions, well, @%$&!
Oh, and the classic, “If you disagree with any of these terms or conditions, do not install/use this product but instead return it immediately to the point of purchase for a full refund.” The hell..?! There isn’t ONE retailer that will take opened software or movies as a return unless damaged physically, and then they’ll only exchange for the same title.
The RIAA and MPAA both need to learn that if you enrage your customer base for long enough, you WILL pay the price.
hi if anyone whants i pre made a pg2 list with these ip’s in them so all u have to do is…go it to the list manager in pg2 itself go add file and browse and locate them from where ever u dl them to hears the link
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1269374/7772348/
Blow me Jai…from Canada…legal to download and US companies can bite me too…..lol
[quote comment="133603"][quote comment="133602"]Go pick a fight somewhere else jai, nobody here wants to get involved in your morality play.[/quote]
It’s because you all know I’m right.
You just want to download illegally, so you pretend that morals don’t come into play.[/quote]
Climb down of your horse and learn something.
Who said downloading anything via BitTorrent was illegal, where in the world does such a rulling exist.
Fact, it is not illegal to offer something for download, it must be proven that at least 1 complete download took place.
The tiny bit of each bit in a torrent is an unrecognisable number#, so until and only if an individual supplies all the bits to 1 other individual does it become illegal.
The above never occurs using the BitTorrent protocol.
Also it is not illegal to download a backup copy of something you already own.
So to throttle such is making one huge presumption, which I’ll refute by saying the majority are downloading as a backup to the original they already own.
OK prove me wrong, my argument is no more presumptuous and flawed as that of the MPAA and their overpaid cronies!
Now how about someone sues the media companies for illegally encrypting DVD’S CD’S etc, thereby trying to deny people their legal right to make a backup.
Bottom line is it’s all about $$$$$$$$ and greedy corporate inbreds wanting more, along with overpaid over-rated lawyers trying to justify their existence.
[quote comment="133618"][quote comment="133617"]No, we are not criminals. We are legitimate human beings that support the economy. Everything on torrents is intellectual property. It just so happens that some countries do not want knowledge to be shared. Until copyright laws are changed, we are stuck being ignorant monkeys that suffer because we do not have access to knowledge that’s on the internet because some moron has to make profit off of his new book to support a politician. No wonder Americans are so fucking stupid, they have no access to information/knowledge (Yes, I’m American, so don’t retort against my point) Also, I’m an active musician that spreads his music through torrents and asks for no profit in return. It’s knowledge and information that deserves to be spread to the world. How can you place claim on a bunch of 1’s and 0’s?[/quote]
The moment you break the law, you are a criminal, liberal. And yes, you can put a copyright on a sequence of 1’s and 0’s, just as you can on a sequence of letters, words, etc.
You’re a typical anti-american liberal, and your ideology shows. Everything you’ve said is 100% incorrect. How about I steal your car? I mean, after all, you can’t put a copyright on an arrangement of atoms, can you?[/quote]
Sure, you can copyright an arangement of atoms, but i’m sure you wouldn’t mind so much if I made an exact copy of the atoms in your car, and left the original one exactly the same, afterall when you download something off the internet, you are not really taking anything, as the original copy of the game / software still exists, and has just been copied for your use. Basically downloading something off the internet is a large scale version of swapping game/software disks with a friend, or recording a film off the tv.
#144:
Argh, your trollness is annoying. Piracy is illegal, there’s little doubt. But mayhaps we consider something here: There are plenty of people who download torrents, like the game/app, and subsequently buy it. The number is not very large, but note that those who don’t purchase the game/app probably never would anyway.
I’ll give you an example: There is a game that I wasnt’ sure about. It had wishy-washy reviews, and being a teenager with no job (and too busy to get one), my resources must be conserved and properly coordinated, as they are incredibly limited. So to test out said game, I download it on, say, the pirate bay for example. I like it, it’s a fantastic game. I want to play it against others online, and to do so, I need to buy the game. And thus, I do.
Without the service of the torrent download, the game would’ve never been purchased. The company would’ve made ~$50 less, and I’d be bored playing some other random game.
All in all, I suggest you stop being such a troll and find something else to do. Cry about it on Youtube, run around on some conservative warmonger website calling foul, yell at some liberals for being too intelligent for you. And when you’re done playing with the children, come back and have a meaningful discussion.
Liberal, by the way, does not infer criminality or general maliciousness. Liberal, generally that is, refers to a person that believes in less traditional ways of thought and less traditional ways of doing things. We’re talking about the people that ended the slave trade, the people that ended Jim Crow, the people that attempt to stop climate change, the people that think sexual orientation shouldn’t be a discriminating factor.
In short; I have a cool new idea that changes the traditional old crappy idea. I R LIBERAL. End of story. If you don’t like it, have a constructed, well thought out discussion of it. This is the marketplace of ideas; if you don’t like my idea, and you’d prefer to be an asshat troll rather than someone who wants to add a new perspective to the discussion, go back to preaching to the choir. Otherwise, welcome to the real world.
You are all slags!! Piracy should be embraced and companies need to figure out a way of using piracy to their advantage. They will never BEAT piracy… the sooner they accept it, the better things will be for everyone.
The dumb fools can’t even see that piracy sells more games than the sales it prevents.
I own hundreds of legitimate CD’s, DVD’s and games. I know at least 60% of them, If I had not seen them first though “PIRACY”, I wouldn’t have ever payed money for them. And would be very bored, with a tiny DVD/CD collection.
That’s WELL OVER £1000 ($2000) worth of media that piracy actually helped to sell. Without it, the industry would be a grand down, cus I would never buy things based on the cover! There’s far too much crap for sale to do that!
Time to get real people.
I think the people uploading things to trackers are like robin hood. They are heros in a very unbalanced world. I think people who are scared of file sharing are just freaking out because they won’t have ways to make money off of other peoples ideas and circumstances anymore. The class divide has been growing but now that is changing because people finally have a way to share without the opressive nature of the corporation getting in the way. It’s a way for the people who weren’t born into riches to have more, learn more, and achieve more. Rich people don’t need any more or lose anything in the process so nobody gives a crap. I’ve bought some games and movies that don’t even work in my players because there is so much DRM crap on them. I’ve actually downloaded games I’ve purchased because the damn things don’t work when you buy them. Besides everyone knows that the true “artists” aren’t the ones getting the money. They usually end up in debt after a record contract. Or game artists end up scrambling for the next contract while the corporation rakes in 100m a month. There aren’t a lot of rich “pirates” out there so good luck in getting anything out of them other than a big waste of your own time and money. It seems dumb to even try to combat things like this. I’m sure “anti-piracy consutants” would tell you differently but then again they’re in a great situation. They can sit there and tell you that they’ll stop piracy and you’ll make more money if you pay them to do this. LOL. Hey that’s awesome. If you’re dumb enough to believe this thing is getting any smaller then right on to them. The “sharing” phenomenon has been growing ever since we could copy a casette tape and it’s only gotten stronger. In fact the more opposition that is thrown at “sharing” the more proficient people become at doing it. All the trolling and media defender type tactics do is to give people more incentive to just do it. People figure that if you’ve got all that time and money to spend paying big consulting firms to fight them then you certainly don’t need our few extra bucks. The federal govt of several companies.. er I mean contries were trying to bust “piracy” groups while osama bin laden was blowing up NewYork. Kinda silly waste of money and time considering the circumstances. I certainly can’t conjure any reason to have sympathy for someone who drives a benz to work and spends all his/her time bitching that they don’t have enough money. Though I think most normal people would give their broke friend a copy of windows considering Bill Gates isnt’ going to go broke over it. Your poor buddy might just get a job if he learns msoffice since he was raised in a country where all the tax money goes to stupid crap like fighting file sharing instead of education. Nobody feels sorry for a corporation.. while “legaly” they might be a person we all know the difference. We’re not customers we’re victims. And until we’re all rich or we’re all poor nothing is going to change. This is bigger than your “law” this is the law of nature. This is the social fabric of humankind seeking ballance and equality. It is, always has been, and always will be, an absurd waste of time to try and fight. Sit back, pick up a hobby, and try to enjoy life before it’s over.
jal you could clone my car and keep it if you have away to clone or copy things i think they should do what they want /wish with it was the person who made the music or file program etc fault they should have protected it better if a musician wrights a song and sings it in public some one hearse it and sings it to what can he do nothing so all this copy right crap is bull
It does more than what you say. I found it on my system dont know how it got there but it was connecting through utorrent to the ziptorrent server on certain torrents and flooding utorrent with its pooh ips. Also when i deleted the torrent file and created another it was still there didn’t even need to be connected to a tracker there was over a thousands ips within a couple of minutes! Also when my client tried to connect to the tracker the tracker was giving me errors saying that ziptorrent wasn’t allowed to be used on that tracker and to get either utorrent or azureus and i was using utorrent! I think it uses legit torrent clients to disguise itself and flood the client with shitty ips so as to not let any downloaders get any data.
Please take down your list, it is clearly FAKE.
some extreme IPs like that can only be seen on internal networks (LAN) and thus if you block it, you block NOBODY in real life, while other IPs might belong to innocent people Media Defender wants taken down, so they fake the IPs.
you morons, didn’t you ever stop to think they would kill two birds with one stone?
ING 239.255.255.250 (239.255.255.250): 56 data bytes
— 239.255.255.250 ping statistics —
4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
Aleniums: fake ips…. that would be illegal… you’re the moron or a plant to say the list is ‘FAKE’. Using is has speed up my down loads.
Thanks Peer Guardian!!!!
I think we scared Jai away… I’m already starting to miss him.
I think I can sum up jai in one word: BAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
AT END OF THE DAY THE INTERNET/WEB WAS DESIGNED FOR SHARING AND THATS WHAT WE ARE DOING.. WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THINK..
LAWS ARE THERE ONLY TO BE BROKEN SO LETS BRAKE THEM WHO CARES.
THIS ZIPPY CLIENT IS JUST A PAIN IN THE BACK SIDE BUT IT STILL DOESNT STOP WHAT WE ARE DOING, SO SCREW THEM!!
YES I KNOW IV USED CAPS BUT IV ONLY JUST NOTICED AND I CANT BE ASSS TO RE-TYPE THIS OUT
My ass hurts so bad cuz I took all your comments up it. It hasn’t felt this bad since I let my conservative club friends take turns shoving their cocks inside. I’m gonna go now and stick some more ice cubes up there to stop the swelling.
i can’t be bothered to read all of your replies and jai-bot’s comments. there comes a time, after three or so of ‘jai’´s comments and three of yours, when I stop reading, and am smart to realize two things and tired of the repetition:
1. jai is paid to post.
2. you are not.
who is wasting their time and money?
who is a tool?
there is a test next thursday.
Wow, that was a waste of 10 mins of my life reading the posts here, I think jai needs to get a life and realize that there is no winning to an argument like this, These kinds of “problems” really are not even problems at all. I work at Crytek as a market analyst for our products. We recently had to pull PC exclusive products because of rampant piracy. Or so says the higher ups, but according to market research we only lost roughly 2% of yearly earnings to piracy. Most of which was well earned because alot of these people came back with useful bug report information and information regarding their system specs and how they stacked against the requirements for games like Crysis.
The big idea is to create a “piracy won against legitimacy” cry in order to rally more against piracy. I actively download files all the time, but I buy what I feel my money should go to, if I like a game so much then I buy it, never trust demos most of the time they usually are completely coded different from the original game. I know this because Crysis’ demo was coded to be much more efficient in performance compared to the retail its a common market strategy. This fight will continue for a long time, as the soldiers march forward new weapons will be made to combat both sides, it is a never ended cycle until a govt steps in to take action fully, even then it will still continue.
maintained guerrillas Archie Pulitzer antisubmarine!roasts cautiousness jumped
tiling changeable:rookie?layered suffers endeavored?Tenneco erases UniPlus
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WHAT?File sharers are not criminals!! If anything the MPAA is a bunch of Nazis.
That's not true. They have implemented numerous inconveniences on their products and we simply remove them. If they want to sell more products legitimately, perhaps limiting and inconveniencing legitimate customers is not the answer. This applies to both Movies (DVD,Blu-Ray) and PC games as well.
I think the industry is just angry that we don't go re-buy something when it gets scratched, like in the old days. Not to mention that MP3 downloads have actually IMPROVED record sales (with the exception of singles). It's only a matter of time before the same thing applies on the Movie end.
Im sure as hell no Liberal, but when the legislature is out of control, the law means little.
Especially when the Legislators are in the pockets of Corporate fat-cats.
What you're saying basically amounts to the law is right always because it's the law.
Absolutely mindless.I'm sure some king in the past used the same argument but that kind of reasoning doesn't fly anymore. That's why the police are extremely unpopular as they run around enforcing laws that no voters ever approved and only serve to generate revenue for shady polititians and corporate campaign contributers while causing nothing but chaos for the public. Your line of reasoning is basically asking for corruption.
And I'm an American and NOT A LIBERAL. I'm simply a realist.
Okay that's a little clearer. Although control of material that we've already purchased is immoral, if anything. (Unless it involves me selling it for profit.)
"And yes, using the law to maximize profits can be moral; think about the drug industry."
Only one of the greatest sources of corruption, using legislation to protect a monopoly by illegalizing everything else and only allowing neutered versions of some medications to increase profits…
And while copywriting material in and of itself is fine, the DMCA is a violation to the whole public, and contradicts the Fair Use Act. There's no reason I should have to put in my disc when I want to watch this, or listen to that if I bought that material and the Fair Use act was at least a middle ground. The DMCA is nothing but Corporate fat-cats buying our Legislature.
So I suppose it's ok to destroy ALL internet traffic to stop a few pirates…Wow you must work for the MPAA.
And unjust laws are called corruption. Thats the definition but I'd say criminal is not the correct word. I would say we're on the brink being revolutionists…
Was Robin Hood a criminal? What about the Americans who revolted against England?
Weren't they "criminals"? What about the Jews in Nazi Germany? Weren't they "criminals"? The law can be mindless and sometimes the public needs to stand up to corruption.
You're an MPAA employee or something? I agree that artists should of course make money, etc , but victimizing the entire population is not the answer. And if they are using illegal tactics to do this, then yet another example of corruption.
You're basically saying tha breaking the law is ok for the government or anyone with money.
The only thing criminal is the legislature.
I think that's why these laws such as the DMCA were put in place to keep the price at or above $20 because if the filesharing continues unchecked the cost would drop to $0, which is why I understand one side of your argument. But by victimizing the entire word wide web when they could have spent less money simply uploading the files themselves or charging less for the CD.
And for movies? They want HD to catch on? How about $20 Bluray, $10 DVD. They seem to think they can get away with double that and they have stooped to influencing lawmakers to price fix their products.
Whoa i guess I overdid it too…Yeah artists and studios need to profit, but violating the Fair Use Act and victimizing the whole web is not the answer, and their prices need to respond to the market, rather than trying to influence lawmakers to keep their prices locked in place.
I'm not against all the things you have stated, but the line about criminals sounds too much like "The law is always right" which is a great sore point for me and can get me raving mad, and cause me to over-react because I deal with too much crap in our "free" society.
Definetely valid point. After the success of iTunes, many other sites such as Amazon MP3 have popped up, and the content is DRM free. This has cut music piracy a lot because it's just not beneficial to download music torrents when you can download faster with the legal files at a decent price. maybe the MPAA will figure it out someday.
Work for MPAA?
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