First off, free samples are a key element of marketing strategy in all areas retail, and they work on the same principle I stated. They give out free samples because they know that on the balance of probability a consumer wouldn’t pay to test a product, but will quite happily test one for free. If you see a plater of free samples at a deli, you’ll probably try one on the of chance that you will indeed like the product. I think that given the idea of free samples is a few hundred years old, that I’m not going out on a limb when I say the principle can be applied to Pirating.

Second, I’m not being greedy, but I am however defending the view with out interjecting my own political motivation. I might pirate a copy of a offspring song, but I personally buy Immortal technique albums because A) they’re about 10 US dollars an album, and B) because the artist that work for Viper records ARE Viper records, the money goes straight to the artists because the artists are also the record label and my money isn’t being taken by some bureaucratic fat cat, but is going to the people who wrote the lyrics and busted the beats. I financially support record labels that give the artists their fair share. And I too get P.O.ed by greedy pirates.

Third: If I built a ferrari my self, as long as I didn’t call it a ferrari, they couldn’t do anything. I know a guy whose building a fully functional replica of a Jaguar E-type (he has to date finished the chassis and engine.) and there is jack they can do about it because it is for his own use.

Oh and a car comparison is bad, as are all physical object comparison. “Art” is a message (well, in a manner of speech) you can’t grab a note of music or a second of film. they are not physically quantifiable.
And to head anybody thinking about it off at the pass: My spray paint analogy is talking about intents which also are non-physical, hence it works.

Why, because they’re not interested? Why would they download it then?

Because they don’t have the cash?
Well you don’t fucking deserve it then – I can’t buy a Ferrari but i don’t decide that because it’s over priced that i’m going to take one.

(okay, that WOULD be stealing – but perhaps instead of taking one i built one. Then it would similar.)

Besides – who said the man who raped the girl or the guy who took out the overdraft ever intended on paying them back in the first place?

Sorry, but the argument of ‘i’m not going to pay you for your product because i was never intending to pay you for your product’ doesn’t make any sense. It’s circular reasoning.

If people grew up, and started saying things like – “I pirate music because i wish to boycott the music industry. The cost of there product is far far far greater than it’s actual value – and they are holding our culture and art hostage until they get their money’

THEN things might start moving forward.

If you’re going to be a pirate, be a pirate. Be politically motivated – not economically.
Don’t be greedy and download terabytes of music just so you have it – and never give a dime back to the artists.

If the artists sold their rights to there music and as such there’s no way to pay them directly – fuck ‘em. There loss.

I will never pay a distributor for a song i downloaded – but i am more than willing to pay an artist and the producer something i feel is closer to the value of the music…

A Britney Spears Album would be worth.. hm.. £2 to me… maybe less.

A Nujabes album… more like £20.

But no, BS would £15 at the shops, and Nujabes are like £80.

A) The comparison of piracy to fraud is just that fraudulent.
“Fraudulent: Adj: Unjustifiable claiming or being credited with particular accomplishments or qualities.”

In all the cases you demonstrated, the “victim” lost something. The Woman lost her money, the bank, its money, etc… But with pirating, a key point most people miss is, the Pirates wouldn’t buy it anyway. If your not going to make the sale in the first place, it isn’t stealing.

B) Downloading music shouldn’t be illegal. It is illegal because of that fact that the companies, which already reap very healthy, and disproportionate profits want more. A CD nowadays costs less than a cent to make. The cases cost maybe 10 cents, and the music may cost a couple hundred thousand to make. when most companies say “It cost XYZ to fund this” they usually include the price of recording equipment, facilities, etc… for each song. really, a music CD should cost 2, maybe 3 at the outside, dollars. As it is, I have to pay 15-20 bucks for a CD. thats a 500 or so percent profit. it is unjustifiable.
The fight is about nothing more or less than the morality of greed.

C)And yes, 99% of statistics are pure fiction, but mine isn’t a definitive. Alot of spray paint is illegally used, a disproportionate amount, hence the arbitrary “90%” which acknowledges there is a legitimate use, but also that it isn’t the majority.

“Someone who sold, i don’t know… furniture, couldn’t do the same thing.
He can’t create one chair and then just give a copy to millions of people without putting any effort in to it.”

But what if you employed a distribution company (chair label) to advertise and distribute the chair? You would have to give them OWNERSHIP of the COPYRIGHT of the DESIGN of your chair. Then they would go through every court in the world chasing those nasty carpenters who keep making copies of your chair and giving them away for free. And if they were successful you wouldn’t see a penny because it would be in their ass pocket.

Okay, you may think that I’m being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but then the name on your chair could be Chippendale for example.

“Piracy isn’t stealing, it’s copying”

Well. Actually. It isn’t copying. It’s fraud.

Tax evasion isn’t stealing.

Legally borrowing money from someone but failing to make the repayments isn’t stealing.

Doing buisness with a prositute and running away without paying while she still has her ankles tied up in her underwear isn’t stealing either.

It’s FRAUD, and in the latter example rape too.

I don’t like the music industry any more than you do, but for gods sake don’t pretend it’s actually legal. Because it’s not.

(I didn’t say it wasn’t acceptable though..)

Why is downloading it illegal?

The answer, which comes in loud and clear, is that it’s illegal because you’re getting a service or product without paying the author for it.

But unfortunatly, there’s a big IF in that argument which many don’t see – why on earth should a product have an infinite value?

A song can be licenced and replayed, resole, repackaged as many times as you like.

Someone who sold, i don’t know… furniture, couldn’t do the same thing.
He can’t create one chair and then just give a copy to millions of people without putting any effort in to it.

I belive every product has a manufacturing value, and that the sold value of that product must be reasonable for the cost of production in relation to the demand.

I’m not saying i want a comunist society, but i think this is ULTRAcapatalism. Where someone can write a song, and the net worth of that song and the distribution of that song is BILLIONS of dollars PER SONG.

This, surely, is ridiculous. The reason we have labels is to distribute music – the number one cost for music artists.

But it costs nothing for these labels to get there music out now-a-days, so in order to survive they have shifted there buisness from distributing music, to ‘owning’ music.

All this pirating and copyright nonsense would go away over night:

1) The price of music was REMOTLY similar to the cost it was to make it with the addition of a hounest profit.

2) No one but the direct authors of music could own any more than their fair percentage of it, based on what they contributed to the development process.