If consumers feel that it is their right to enjoy the Creators works whether it is art, music, film, design and so on – what incentive would exist for Creators to spend their time producing anything for anyone other than themselves.

And imagine a world with no creative works to be enjoyed enmasse

It is of course up to the Creator to choose to make their works available for free or indeed for a consumer of works to decide what they are willing to pay, if anything, according to what the works mean to their enjoyment of life.

However, it is not up to consumers to defacto state that Creators have no right to earn a living from their natural borne talents and at the same time expect to enhance their own life pleasures from the works of the Creators.

For that to become logically fair then society would need to do away with the entire money exchange system worldwide and return to bartering as currency.

I am sure that all participants in this group are happy to pay for the services provided by their ISP’s that gains them the access, ability and enjoyment to particpate. And that the majority have a job and expect to be remunerated fairly for the hours they work.

The job of a creator is to create – and thereby I see no reason why others should deny their right to receive an income from that job.

Some other commentators have said – creatives/artists should earn a living from a different source/job and give their artistic works up for free.

Quite where they would find the time to do both who knows, or why non Creators believe it is their right to dictate that they do.

The majority of Creators want (in the main) is to be fairly remunerated for the works they produce that others wish to enjoy.

For sure a minority % of creators have risen to fame and achieved significant earnings from their works – or the value of those works have been artifically inflated by all bar the Creator. Such inflations occur in all streams of creative industries from music, film, art and so on – but it is rarely that Creator that earns the most from such works.

I can appreciate all parties view points but the common denominator should be a desire that over-inflation and greed is curtailed – not anyone parties right to earn a fair income out of what they do for a living

1. One group of people is saying “I want you to pay X for Y”
2. One bigger group of people is saying “No, I want Y for free”

All this bullshit about copyrights and “OMG THEY’RE LIARSZZZ” aside, the issue is that people don’t want to pay the prices these companies are asking for their product. In a typical capitalist scenario, if I don’t like the price that Bob is selling apples for, I should be able to walk down the street to Jim and buy apples at a different price… or not buy apples altogether. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way… Bob and Jim got together and decided that the price of apples is 59.99.

Now you can sit there in your chair and justify to yourself all you want when you download torrented games and music or whatever, but it’s stealing. You’re taking someone elses intellectual work without paying that person/company for it. This is not the issue up for dispute here. There is no “grey area” here. Whether you want to admit it or not, it’s theft.

Don’t give me this crap about freedom, and profitability… this is throwing white-wash on something that is CLEARLY theft. It’s stealing. It’s robbery. It’s taking something that wasn’t yours in the first place. Each person here has to come to their own moral conclusion about whether or not they’re ok with doing this. The way I see it is that yes, you should have the right to access data on the internet in any way that you see fit. On that same token, the guy who owns the content has a right to send the authorities to your house and confiscate your shit. This is the balance, is the order… You get on the freeway and you speed, sometimes you’re gonna get caught, most times you get away with it.

Don’t sit there and try to demonize the people on the other end to make what you’re doing less wrong. I believe in honesty. Everyone has to do what they have to do. The torrenters do what they do, and the big companies chase them… that’s the natural order. That’s the way it’s gonna be, and the way it will always be.

News flash, genius. No one’s stealing anything from these companies. They’ve decided that civil liberties aren’t conducive to their work environment.