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	<title>Comments on: Judge: IP-Address Is  Not a Person and Can&#8217;t Identify a BitTorrent Pirate</title>
	<atom:link href="https://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-person-140324/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-person-140324/</link>
	<description>Breaking File-sharing, Copyright and Privacy News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:08:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Erik Q.J.</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1220891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik Q.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1220891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone suspected of Internet crime can argue the same. &quot;An IP address is not a person&quot; is not just a defense; it&#039;s the truth. The standard of proof must be the same for all crimes, even the ones we like the least. In fact, the more severe the crime, the more important that the standards of proof be upheld. Above all, proof must be real and reliable; viewing an IP address as a person is not.



In general, the &quot;Pedophile Argument&quot; is much to blunt and primitive to be taken seriously. &quot;Blunt&quot; because it can be used against any form of freedom on the Internet. &quot;Primitive&quot; because it appeals to an emotional absolute: Would we not sacrifice anything, or everything, for the safety and welfare of children? Would we not do anything to catch and punish pedophiles? Does anyone dare argue for freedom for pedophiles to distribute abuse images and groom victims? No? Then it&#039;s unanimous: Let&#039;s shut down the Internet!



 Remember, the ultimate system for preventing Internet related crimes, including pedophiles pandering in abuse images, would be what they have in North Korea: A heavily surveilled Net, separate from the messy Internet, available only to select users, with only government approved content. Technically, anyone arguing against the North Korean model can be accused of supporting pedophiles. And freedom of speech. And anything in between.


Freedom for you means freedom for everybody. Unfortunately, Mr. and Mrs. Everybody are suspect characters that get up to all sorts of nasty stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone suspected of Internet crime can argue the same. &#8220;An IP address is not a person&#8221; is not just a defense; it&#8217;s the truth. The standard of proof must be the same for all crimes, even the ones we like the least. In fact, the more severe the crime, the more important that the standards of proof be upheld. Above all, proof must be real and reliable; viewing an IP address as a person is not.</p>
<p>In general, the &#8220;Pedophile Argument&#8221; is much to blunt and primitive to be taken seriously. &#8220;Blunt&#8221; because it can be used against any form of freedom on the Internet. &#8220;Primitive&#8221; because it appeals to an emotional absolute: Would we not sacrifice anything, or everything, for the safety and welfare of children? Would we not do anything to catch and punish pedophiles? Does anyone dare argue for freedom for pedophiles to distribute abuse images and groom victims? No? Then it&#8217;s unanimous: Let&#8217;s shut down the Internet!</p>
<p> Remember, the ultimate system for preventing Internet related crimes, including pedophiles pandering in abuse images, would be what they have in North Korea: A heavily surveilled Net, separate from the messy Internet, available only to select users, with only government approved content. Technically, anyone arguing against the North Korean model can be accused of supporting pedophiles. And freedom of speech. And anything in between.</p>
<p>Freedom for you means freedom for everybody. Unfortunately, Mr. and Mrs. Everybody are suspect characters that get up to all sorts of nasty stuff.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Erik Q.J.</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1220865</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik Q.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1220865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s certainly time for me to take a vacation in Germany, hacking into the Wi-Fi of those responsible for that law, and do all kinds of illegal stuff over their IP address. You know, a bit of file sharing, sending a few bomb threats, some decent attempts at hacking government sites, a bit of email fraud (mostly targeting police officers), spreading Nazi propaganda (illegal in Germany), etc..


I wonder if that might cause some changes in their attitudes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s certainly time for me to take a vacation in Germany, hacking into the Wi-Fi of those responsible for that law, and do all kinds of illegal stuff over their IP address. You know, a bit of file sharing, sending a few bomb threats, some decent attempts at hacking government sites, a bit of email fraud (mostly targeting police officers), spreading Nazi propaganda (illegal in Germany), etc..</p>
<p>I wonder if that might cause some changes in their attitudes?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Erik Q.J.</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1220861</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik Q.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1220861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is why we shouldn&#039;t let MAFIAA trolls anywhere near technology:



- Unless you consider the Southern District of Florida to be one single neighborhood, It&#039;s extremely unlikely that the IP address was in the neighborhood of the offices of Malibu Media.


- It&#039;s extremely unlikely that the IP address belonged to a crack-house or &quot;druggie-house&quot;.



- Unlike with a crack-house, where the identity of both the owner, and many of the residents and visitors will be known, and which will have been observed from outside before any warrant is sought, the identity of this file sharer was unknown, and he had not been observed.



- Unlike in a crack-house, most inhabitants on the address of the IP address were probably not only innocent, but also unaware of the &quot;illegal&quot; activity -- even if it was committed in the building.

- When dealing crack, it&#039;s very difficult to use the front door of your neighbor two houses down without anyone noticing; when sharing files, it&#039;s quite simple to use the Wi-Fi of the neighbor two houses down.

- Unlike movies, crack is illegal in itself, and the manufacturers and large scale distributors are higher priority targets than local dealers and users. Of course, if you honestly means that all those involved in the movie industry should be rounded up and handed decades long sentences for producing their filth, you&#039;re a bit closer to being consistent.


- Absolutely correct: Without some observation of the alleged crack house, yielding some form of evidence that crack is actually being dealt, in the actual house, with the knowledge and consent of the inhabitants of the house, rather than in the neighboring house or by a passer by, you cannot get any search warrants, much less any arrest warrants. You&#039;ll also be hard pressed to get a search warrant for an entire apartment block, or even a building containing two apartments.


Why is it that the MAFIAA and their trolls keep coming up with such sensationally lousy analogies?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why we shouldn&#8217;t let MAFIAA trolls anywhere near technology:</p>
<p>- Unless you consider the Southern District of Florida to be one single neighborhood, It&#8217;s extremely unlikely that the IP address was in the neighborhood of the offices of Malibu Media.</p>
<p>- It&#8217;s extremely unlikely that the IP address belonged to a crack-house or &#8220;druggie-house&#8221;.</p>
<p>- Unlike with a crack-house, where the identity of both the owner, and many of the residents and visitors will be known, and which will have been observed from outside before any warrant is sought, the identity of this file sharer was unknown, and he had not been observed.</p>
<p>- Unlike in a crack-house, most inhabitants on the address of the IP address were probably not only innocent, but also unaware of the &#8220;illegal&#8221; activity &#8212; even if it was committed in the building.</p>
<p>- When dealing crack, it&#8217;s very difficult to use the front door of your neighbor two houses down without anyone noticing; when sharing files, it&#8217;s quite simple to use the Wi-Fi of the neighbor two houses down.</p>
<p>- Unlike movies, crack is illegal in itself, and the manufacturers and large scale distributors are higher priority targets than local dealers and users. Of course, if you honestly means that all those involved in the movie industry should be rounded up and handed decades long sentences for producing their filth, you&#8217;re a bit closer to being consistent.</p>
<p>- Absolutely correct: Without some observation of the alleged crack house, yielding some form of evidence that crack is actually being dealt, in the actual house, with the knowledge and consent of the inhabitants of the house, rather than in the neighboring house or by a passer by, you cannot get any search warrants, much less any arrest warrants. You&#8217;ll also be hard pressed to get a search warrant for an entire apartment block, or even a building containing two apartments.</p>
<p>Why is it that the MAFIAA and their trolls keep coming up with such sensationally lousy analogies?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dghDFh</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1204824</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dghDFh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 05:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1204824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Judges are sworn in for LIFE, sure they may get retired for a while (and i believe still paid) but they are still on call 24/7 for the rest of their life for judge duty. So chances are she&#039;ll have an &quot;accident&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judges are sworn in for LIFE, sure they may get retired for a while (and i believe still paid) but they are still on call 24/7 for the rest of their life for judge duty. So chances are she&#8217;ll have an &#8220;accident&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Obamamama</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1200756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Obamamama]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2014 02:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1200756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[each time a read something like this I go watch my fav blast from the past video http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc       it was a trap from the start ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>each time a read something like this I go watch my fav blast from the past video <a href="http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc</a>       it was a trap from the start &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JG</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1200343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1200343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If they can &quot;pinpoint the right location&quot; and &quot;[make] sure that it [is] a residential address&quot;, do they really need a court order to get subscriber information? 


That kind of says to me they already know the physical address where the infringement took place (or at least somewhere within wifi range of said address).  So couldn&#039;t they just send the &quot;Pay up or else&quot; letter to that address?


Of course a mailing address won&#039;t really tell you who infringed any more than an IP address will, but it&#039;d save them a lot of headache trying to go through the court system...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they can &#8220;pinpoint the right location&#8221; and &#8220;[make] sure that it [is] a residential address&#8221;, do they really need a court order to get subscriber information? </p>
<p>That kind of says to me they already know the physical address where the infringement took place (or at least somewhere within wifi range of said address).  So couldn&#8217;t they just send the &#8220;Pay up or else&#8221; letter to that address?</p>
<p>Of course a mailing address won&#8217;t really tell you who infringed any more than an IP address will, but it&#8217;d save them a lot of headache trying to go through the court system&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: What I&#8217;ve Been Reading: March 30, 2014 &#124; Refrigerator Rants</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1199773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What I&#8217;ve Been Reading: March 30, 2014 &#124; Refrigerator Rants]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2014 14:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1199773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Van Der Sar of TorrentFreak reports about a ruling from Judge Ursula Ungaro in Florida. She ruled that IP addresses can&#8217;t be used to identify downloaders in cases of piracy, since [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Van Der Sar of TorrentFreak reports about a ruling from Judge Ursula Ungaro in Florida. She ruled that IP addresses can&#8217;t be used to identify downloaders in cases of piracy, since [&#8230;]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Are IP Addresses Sufficient for Identification? &#124; Geek Law</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1199303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Are IP Addresses Sufficient for Identification? &#124; Geek Law]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2014 17:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1199303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] TorrentFreak recently noticed an interesting Florida case dealing with electronic copyright infringement.  The case involves Malibu Media, which mostly makes porn, sued a number of BitTorrent users for illegally downloading their movies.  Florida District Court Judge Ursula Ungaro ruled that simply producing an IP address did not constitute a sufficient evidence for a subpoena (where Malibu would ask the ISP to produce records regarding the user in question) because she felt the IP address did not sufficiently identify the user as the actual infringer. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] TorrentFreak recently noticed an interesting Florida case dealing with electronic copyright infringement.  The case involves Malibu Media, which mostly makes porn, sued a number of BitTorrent users for illegally downloading their movies.  Florida District Court Judge Ursula Ungaro ruled that simply producing an IP address did not constitute a sufficient evidence for a subpoena (where Malibu would ask the ISP to produce records regarding the user in question) because she felt the IP address did not sufficiently identify the user as the actual infringer. [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: File-Sharing Copyright Trolls Invade Finland</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1198909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[File-Sharing Copyright Trolls Invade Finland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2014 14:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1198909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] around the world are starting to look closely into these kinds of cases, and in some instances throwing them out. That’s not so good if you’re liable for the substantial cost of [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] around the world are starting to look closely into these kinds of cases, and in some instances throwing them out. That’s not so good if you’re liable for the substantial cost of [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>/ip-address-not-person-140324/#comment-1198884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2014 07:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://torrentfreak.com/?p=85751#comment-1198884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[J.S.? John Steele? Is that you? Stay classy, fucktard hunter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.S.? John Steele? Is that you? Stay classy, fucktard hunter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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