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BPI Decries ISP Inaction Against 100K Music Pirates

A UK music industry group claims that it has given an ISP evidence that thousands of its customers are pirating music but it has done nothing to stop them. Since February the BPI has harvested the IP addresses of 100,000 BT Broadband customers but is now labeling the ISP’s lack of action against them as “shameful.”

Last week, UK ISP BT Broadband made the headlines when their consumer division boss John Petter said that measures to tackle Internet piracy will be hugely costly.

Petter said he fears that the anti-piracy process could cost ISPs a staggering £365m a year – £165m a year more than the £200m the BPI says the industry will lose to online music piracy in 2009. The BT boss went on to label the BPI’s losses assessment as “melodramatic.”

Geoff Taylor, chief executive of BPI, is now hitting back, claiming that Petter has exaggerated his figures too.

Taylor also claims that since February the group’s anti-piracy tracking company (most probably Denmark-based DtecNet) has harvested the IP addresses of 100,000 BT Broadband customers alleged to have been engaged in illicit file-sharing.

The BPI CEO, who says that his group handed the information over to BT, notes that the ISP has done nothing about the problem.

BT says that if the industry wants action against these individuals it should prosecute them, but BPI said that the ISP is shirking its responsibilities.

“It’s shameful for a company like BT to know that a high percentage of the traffic it carries is illegal material but do nothing,” Taylor told The Mirror. “If you operate a commercial service and know it is being used to break the law, taking steps to ensure it is used legally is a cost of doing business.”

However, Taylor’s comments don’t really hold water. BT has hosted more communications in its past and present forms than any other company in UK history, and for many years held a monopoly on telephone communications. BT and every other communications company provides infrastructure which people can use to break all kinds of laws and so far, no-one apart from the entertainment industries feels that carriers should take the responsibility for the actions of others.

The British music industry frustrations are only too clear. They don’t want to take the path of the RIAA and start taking legal action against alleged sharers, so are pressuring ISPs to take action against them instead. ISPs don’t want to be judge, jury and executioner, particularly since there is no legal basis to do so.

So now all eyes are now on the government which will soon have to decide which action to take. Smart money right now is on throttling the connection speeds of file-sharers as an absolute last resort, but this won’t be enough for the music industry, who want outright disconnection or at least a temporary suspension of Internet access.

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  • KingKong

    Keep your nerve BT and don’t give in. Legally BT are sound.

  • chrsn

    Yeah, spend 365 million to save 200 million. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

  • DJ

    Sounds like the same thing with the US drug war. Billions out fighting drugs, where as if pot were legalized billions would be coming in from just one plant. Just saying..

  • Retarded Mind

    Harvest IPs?

    Why don’t the entertainment retards just give ALL the IPs and disconnect everyone from the Internet.

    WHEN WILL YOU WAKE UP!?

  • unsolved mysteries

    ahhhhhhgreeed ^

  • http://www.eZee.se www.eZee.se

    The music industry has been crying about stuff for decades, even if BT does do what the industry wants now they will want more…
    ever hear of the golden goose that keeps giving?
    The industry is like the rabid dog that keeps asking…no, not asking, demanding.
    Theres only one way to silence a rabid dog, you got to euthanize it, and the sooner someone shoots the BPI in the head the better we all will be.

    BT you are on legal firm,rock solid ground and you have the people on your side, dont budge an inch and we will continue to support you.

    Cheers from Sweden!

  • anon

    1895 – 1st films were made, yo’d be lucky to see them anywhere.
    1990′s – internet changes distrubution of information to cheep relaiable connections
    2009 – 110 year old business model of charging people to watch a film for money dies.

    2014-ish should be an interesting year.

  • ET
  • anon

    will someone just call these guys a WAAAAAHmbulance? srsly

  • Sam Li

    thats the best way

  • Sam Li

    thats the be
    st way

  • Sam

    thats the best method

  • @3

    Interesting analogy between music and drugs.
    I’ve always thought this to be the case.
    99.9% of music is an opiate for the masses.
    That makes the the music industries drug lords defending their territory.

  • bernard

    @2 chrsn

    FTFY

    Spend 365 million to save “someone else’s” 200 million. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

  • An0n

    “BPI said that the ISP is shirking its responsibilities”

    BPI obviously don’t understand.

    BT’s responsibilty is the same as any other Common Carrier, that of carrying all traffic with the same priority and without regard to the content of that traffic.

  • The doctor

    I wonder why the BPI hasn’t issued legal papers on the approx 100,000 people then and give everybody their day in court to argue against the charges, as is EVRYBODIES basic civil and human right.

    It is not up to BT to do their dirty work for them and as a result suffer the customer backlash.

  • Anonymous

    The BPI just want a proxy because they know people will get pissed and vote with their wallets.

    Just look at the example in the U.S., thousands were prosecuted, i didn’t make a dent on filesharing but revenues saw a sharp, sharp decline. So now they are looking for someone to act in their behalf LoL

    It’s not cheap to keep enforcement and that will the Achilles hill that will bring them down. Pirates have close to 0 in expenses but other will incur into the billions to try and stop anything.

  • http://piratene.ws

    They probably have some solid screen shot evidence as usual :p

  • djnforce9

    @2 (chrsn): Correction!
    Spend 365 million to save SOMEBODY ELSE’s 200 million. Yeah as if any business wants to sacrifice itself and its customers’ privacy so that another can re-coop what was a fictitious loss to begin with.

  • ano nym ous

    I’m all for the BPI.

    There needs to be a serious punishment for Lily Allen’s several copyright infringements.

  • G

    2/3s of Internet traffic is bittorrent, and the majority of that is people distributing copyrighted files.

    If the majority of phone calls were the result of people doing something illegal, the phone companies would be forced to do something about it.

  • An0n

    “If the majority of phone calls were the result of people doing something illegal, the phone companies would be forced to do something about it.”

    Actually what happened there was president Bush initiating a wide-reaching and unconstitutional wire-tap regime. I imagine the same would happen (and maybe does happen) in the UK.

  • 01d$k001

    This is so ridiculous. If I kill my neighbor with a steak knife, then the steak knife manufacturer is liable? Come on, where are our Constitutional protections? How can they expect the ISPs to police their customers? They are NOT in that business, they simply sell access.

    BTW, the new, proposed FCC rules would prevent ISPs from blocking specific content or applications and the new rules are expected to pass. 3 of the 5 commissioners are in favor of the new rules, including the Commissioner himself.

  • r3loaded

    This will always fail for 2 reasons:

    1. As previously noted, there is no legal basis for doing so.

    2. To an ISP, filesharers are “high-margin” customers. They’re the ones most likely to take out top-tier high speed + unlimited broadband packages, and hence make an ISP the most profit. Does anyone seriously believe that the people who take out Virgin’s 50Mbit service just want to check their e-mail, book a holiday and watch a couple of YouTube videos? Hence, ISPs will be extremely reluctant to go after their biggest customers.

  • Reventon

    @21 ok, let’s presume they detect all the crimes by all the people.

    Now what? The authorities dont have the resurces to deal with the crimes they found so far, what the hell do they do with +1000% more?

  • Anonymous

    stupid maffia get with the times or get out.

  • me

    Those 100,000 IPs are most likely dynamic IPs. Unless BT give static IPs (anyone confirm?)

    How long did it take to harvest those IPs?

    Probably turn out to be a few hundred customers that have used those IPs

  • Fuck d RIAA and MPAA

    I just read d post about 3 guys getting prison time because they uploaded movies that had made 100s of millions of dollars and i think its fucking time we stand up for whats fucking right….As long as someone is sharing not selling then i see no fucking right for the government to harrass that person and even jail him…

  • omfg

    sue all car manufacturers ! they are used as getaway cars in crimes !

  • PwnedNoob

    Would they really expect the ISP to lose 100k customers? LOL
    (but yes like #27 says, they’re probably IP’s and not different people.)

  • Thundercross

    @22 The wiretapping was never meant to catch file-sharers, only terrorists.
    Perhaps if there was a restriction on that forbidding the use of that technology for anything that’s not a matter of life or death, people would be more comfortable with it. Okay, maybe not. But keep in mind that it was never meant to be used by the entertainment industry to try to protect their profit marigin, only by a government to protect human life (and successfully too).

  • Pharaoh

    Gee, I wonder why BT haven’t disconnected those 100,000 users… Perhaps it’s because each one of them is a paying customer? At a few hundred pounds a year that’s millions in losses.

  • Dipper

    What does the BPI refuse to fund the ISP for tracking people down. A potential money maker for the ISP if they choose to reveal the IP for £10,000.

    By the BPI want it all there own way without commiting money to the project as they don’t actually have vast funds to fight all of this.

  • Anon

    Since when is an ISP responsible for someone else’s behavior? That’s like running a message board then having the owner be responsible for what people post. It’s reasons like these that im glad the music industry is owned by idiots, its distracting them and they’re barking up the wrong tree instead of actually doing anything.

  • Dipper

    #27
    Those 100,000 IPs are most likely dynamic IPs. Unless BT give static IPs (anyone confirm?)

    BT do not offer static IP’s.

    And beside 100000 x £20.54 = £2,054,000 a month is lost sales, which adds up to a staggering £24,648,000 over the year in lost sales. Doubt BT will do anything.

  • MeepMeep

    Ernesto,

    Would like you to “misuse” your power to call for a type of worldwide boycot against the musicindustry, like stop paying for CDs/DVDs or downloads for like a week.

  • MeepMeep

    awaiting moderation

    Why.

  • mike

    the only reason i am with BT is they dont send letters.

    great going BT …. stuff the riaa….

  • Hans Pandeya

    @34 yes they’re dynamic.

    The BPI argument is just lol. Seriously, if a murderer uses a certain brand of knife do they go after the knife manufacturer or the people that actually commited the crime? It’s not up to BT to decide who should be punished and who shoulden’t be, they just provide a service. Like they said, if the BPI were so peeved off why don’t they do something about it instead of whining to BT like little bitches.

    If I even get a whiff of a letter coming to me i’ll just use my VPN connection for any downloading, as it stands at the moment I just have it as a backup / if I want to watch hulu etc.

  • Dan

    The BPI have got two choices really, either embrace the internet and start making money off it like Youtube and Itunes etc.

    Or they can try and destroy the internet and take away our freedom at the same time making us resent them.

    Thing is though, who owns the internet?

    I believe it should be the customers because we are the ones who invested in expensive broadband connections. Without us, the internet would be slow and would never have taken off as much as it has.

    Ive spent 35 Uk pounds a month for about 4 years now on my internet. So now Ive personally have spent 1600 UK pounds.
    Only to have some Dickheads throttle my connection, shut down my favorite websites and while this is happening UK Television has turned to shit. (Commercial music was already shit)

    Strictly come dancing, Britians got talent, Deal or no Deal — Thats what TVs become – U get me?

  • Dan

    @35 MeepMeep

    Did u swear or post a website link? Thats proberly why…

  • Rabbit80

    So – the ISP shoud say, “Yes, we will send a warning out to each of the users of those 100,000 IP addresses, however each one will carry a £25 administration fee payable in advance (By the BPI)”.. Sounds fair to me!

  • Anonymous

    People playing BPI music too loudly can cause a noise nuisance, and BPI music is played at illegal raves. The BPI should help crack down on these bad things. It should be a cost of their doing business.

  • Sendaii

    @21: Is two thirds a firm, researched figure or did you just pull it out of your arse? Personally, I’m thinking that it’s the latter.

    Hold your ground BT, and your customers will back you. A company shouldn’t be forced to change it’s practices to suit another company.

  • Anonymous

    Save money music labels!!!
    Don’t pay the bpi!

  • lverona

    @ Rabbit80

    Nice idea.
    Also a nice idea would be to actually try to see what the “evidence” is. Really – what is it? They say they got IPs. IPs what? Where did they get them from monitoring – what? Torrents? There is a lot of legal information on torrents – free software, creative commons artwork. How can they prove WHAT was downloaded? Filenames? Pfff. You can name a legal file britneyspears.mp3 though in reality it is some ambient by your neighbour. What kind of evidence is that?

    I think that the evidence is very weak.

  • diarRIAA

    Yes. The ISP should disconnect 100,000 users whether or not they are 100% guilty.

    I’m sure that the vast majority of “infringers” are underage minors, all of whom can’t be charged with any crime anyways.

    The reality is that all they are doing is sharing 0′s and 1′s, and those 0′s and 1′s are likely not even the EXACT patterns of 0′s and 1′s that are the original part of the copyrighted medium to begin with (lawyers please note the last sentence).

    Yes, disconnect all of the infringers including innocent bystanders such as parents, grandparents, grandchildren and sibling so the ISP can lose 100,000 customers and all of the income from them, and all they will have left are customers that don’t care about music and will never buy music, but disconnect the music lovers who are more likely to pay for licensed content now or in the future.

    YES! This makes PERFECT sense. DISCONNECT them ALL!

    *banging head on table*

  • John Woods

    Well I guess somebodies gotta stand up for them!

    Riff
    http://www.total-privacy.net.tc

  • Anonymous

    if you cannot file share then i for one will give up broadband and just use the phone to speak to my friends thats all me and my many many friends use the internet for, if i am a typical teenager then i think the isp’s are going to lose a lot of customers, mom and dad are not intrested in the internet the same as my friends moms and dads they only got it for us.

  • Quartz

    Have the BPI registered this data collecting agency with the UK authorities ?
    Or are they once again resorting to their criminal ways ?

    If you receive a letter from your ISP folks ask them to verify the organisation making the claims are registered with the data protection commission, if not call the police as a crime has taken place and these media industry criminals must face the full penalty of the law.

  • Throttle me

    Giggity!

  • jay

    stopped paying for music years ago, I use sites where I can give money direct to the artist and not to the record label…

    seems to work :)

  • prodigydancer

    So they freely admit that they spy on people who did nothing wrong, that they violate all kinds of privacy protecting laws and yet they dare to use the word “shameful”?

    Whoa! Talk about hypocrisy…

    I sincerely hope that BT will find their claims just as laughable as I do. :-)

  • 0xrkxnyfsy

    Seems to me most arguments are moot. It’s technologically infeasible to achieve what they’re hoping for at a fundamental level. All that will happen is an ISP, forced to action, will be heavily punished through cost, complexity, and disdain from its subscriber base and, despite their efforts, in time, file sharing will route through and around any blocks put into place to continue as normal.

    Information-based industries are pissed that they’re fast becoming obsolete due to modern information technology and, in knowing this, are attempting to forge a continuation of existance online by having the technology controlled in their interest, irrespective of detriment to others.

    The containers they used previously to create a product that they could market – CDs, DVDs, newspapers, broadcast networks, etc. – have been rendered obsolete by modern information technology. And now, knowing that they haven’t a viable container to encapsulate the information to create a marketable item, want I.T. reshaped to become a replacement mechanism so they can continue business as usual. For this they need control of distribution, which means they need to control the flow of information, which means they need to control the technology, which means they need to control the access providers, and all so they can control the people by denying them its use.

    It’s a big ruse by obsolete industry to take control of modern technology for its own gain.

  • Paolo Brini

    E-Commerce Directive (2000/31/EC)

    Article 12

    “Mere conduit”

    1. Where an information society service is provided that consists of the transmission in a communication network of information provided by a recipient of the service, or the provision of access to a communication network, Member States shall ensure that the service provider is not liable for the information transmitted, on condition that the provider:

    (a) does not initiate the transmission;

    (b) does not select the receiver of the transmission; and

    (c) does not select or modify the information contained in the transmission.

    Article 15

    No general obligation to monitor

    1. Member States shall not impose a general obligation on providers, when providing the services covered by Articles 12, 13 and 14, to monitor the information which they transmit or store, nor a general obligation actively to seek facts or circumstances indicating illegal activity.

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32000L0031:EN:HTML

    Please inform BPI that UK is a Member State of EU.

    On the other hand, this is a part of the process initiated since 2005 by entertainment majors to circumvent the principle of mere conduit AND impose 3-strikes worldwide. See 2006 CMBA position http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/ecomm/doc/library/public_consult/review_2/comments/cmba.pdf

  • JTK

    Well done, BT!

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  • michael8124

    @3 DJ

    “Sounds like the same thing with the US drug war. Billions out fighting drugs, where as if pot were legalized billions would be coming in from just one plant. Just saying..”

    I totally agree. Some politicians in America are realizing it too.

    This article on CBS news is dated may 6, 2009. Governor Shwarzenegger has talked about fully legalizing pot this year.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/06/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4996114.shtml
    “But Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken a significant step further, saying on Tuesday that it’s time to debate legalizing marijuana for recreational use in California.”

    And earlier this year the mayor of El Paso Texas tried to get congress to at least discuss the legalization of pot, but congress basically told him to shut up about it or the city would risk losing money from the stimulus.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/14/drug-legalization-debate_n_157798.html

    Governments, anti-piracy, pro-copyright groups, all fail to realize that spending too much money to fight something is not the way to solve the problem. The war on drugs, online piracy, and even unemployment, all have a similar outcome: it’s a losing battle and no amount of money you spend is going to fix the problem, and the more you fight it, the worse it gets. The Mexican government started cracking down on drug cartels, and look what happened. Violence escalated dramatically. Bailing out the banks and auto industry was to save jobs, and we have lost way more jobs than what has been saved or created. And the pressure on online “piracy” has gotten people to invent and use ways to protect their online privacy by way of VPN, proxies, etc. Bottom line: The more they try to fight and control people, the worse things will get. They should leave well enough alone, and eventually things will work themselves out.

  • lastbastard

    BPI guy sounds reasonable: “I give you 100,000 numbers, I say these 100,000 numbers are infringers and you lose 100,000 customers.”

  • tosser

    Every household in Britain is being taxed £6 a year to pay for the installation of faster connections, but at the same time an ISP is being cajoled into pissing £365 MILLION down the drain.

    What’s gone wrong?

  • John

    I’m glad BT aren’t giving in. Hopefully they don’t go all Virgin Media on their customers.

  • Rabbit80

    The comms industries and ISP’s should simply refuse to give the BPI / RIAA etc phone lines and internet services… that’ll learn ‘em :P

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  • m0jo

    Let me ask the music industry this: is a telephone provider to blame for extortion or any law-breaking over it’s phones?

    NO

    But they could scan every conversation for keywords and log possible threat phonecalls.
    That’s not invading privacy! That’s making the world a little bit safer!

  • VoR

    The BPI don’t know the difference between unlawful and illegal.

    The BPI have ZERO proof that anyone downloading wasn’t allowed to do so under the fair use and fair dealing restricted acts that are permitted under copyright laws.

    The BPI have ZERO proof of profit loss / actual damages.

    Stopping piracy online will cost far more than the projected losses that the BPI spew at us.

    In other words, fighting the pirates will damage the countries GDP and will be bad for the economy.

    Defeating the pirates would save the BPI and it’s friends a statistically insignificant amount in losses/damages (~1% of overall profit loss can be attributed to filesharers)

    The BPI need to stop p*ssing in the wind as the only thing they’re achieving is to get p*ss all over their legs whilst they turn filesharers into stubborn non-consumers that will boycott anything associated with the BPI.

    To label BT “shameless” when the BPIs suggestions are a great big waste of time and money are retarded.

    Why would an ISP shoot itself in the foot to bring nearly zero benefit to the BPI?

    If the BPI think BT is shameless, the BPI is simply… retarded.

  • Evil Genius

    If the BPI were that worried, why haven’t they gone to ACS:LAW and sought a NP order to force BT to hand over the alleged infringer details?

    Simple. Because they know that there is no chance of winning in court as they can only identify the owner of the connection, not the infringer.

  • VoR

    … and it’s also very likely they have harvested data as evidence without applying to a court to do so… which is why ACS:Law falls flat on it’s face when people refuse to pay up extortionate fees.

    Lawyers love it when evidence is improperly obtained as it makes the case for defense so much easier.

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  • PirateprideWW

    Wow, 100,000 IPs. I wonder how many are actually printers. This is why I can’t sympathize with these mass-suing idiots. Seriously, how rigorous were their collection efforts if they nabbed this many addresses in half of one year? Yet even this basic problem seems to have a coins flip of a chance of convincing a judge/jury. Incredible.

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  • Mr. Briggs

    @24 (r3loaded):

    Does anyone seriously believe that the people who take out Virgin’s 50Mbit service just want to check their e-mail, book a holiday and watch a couple of YouTube videos? Hence, ISPs will be extremely reluctant to go after their biggest customers.

    Actually, they’ll probably be most eager to get rid of the 10% of their consumers that only pay 20% of their revenue but eat up 90% of their bandwidth. I’m thinking that they want low-volume consumers since their packages have a higher unit price.

    Except, of course, for a business package. Companies want businesses to be their customers.

  • Mr. Briggs

    @63 (VoR):

    (~1% of overall profit loss can be attributed to filesharers)

    Care to give a source?

  • Boo-Hoo!

    Maybe Reasoned Mind and the BPI can get together and have a good cry.

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  • VoR

    Sure Mr. Briggs,

    http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/02/8813.ars

    Additionally, there are several studies from 2004 which reinforce this.

    But more relevant, there is a much more recent study (in the last 2-3 months) that demonstrates the same is still true… I’ll post back soon if I can find a link to it.

  • Dizzy

    “Geoff Taylor, chief executive of BPI, is now hitting back, claiming that Petter has exaggerated his figures too.”

    Hahaha, this is kinda cool.
    Yes, maybe BT exaggurated the figures… But by admitting that the BPI did so too, they now have no right of speech before they produce some real numbers :P

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  • http://homeownerinsurancequestions.com/ HO

    … and it’s also very likely they have harvested data as evidence without applying to a court to do so… which is why ACS:Law falls flat on it’s face when people refuse to pay up extortionate fees.
    Lawyers love it when evidence is improperly obtained as it makes the case for defense so much easier.

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