campaign named "I Wouldn't Steal". In a continued effort to support the development of P2P technology, the European Union has now invested $22 million in the development of an open-source BitTorrent client." />

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EU Invests $22 Million in Next-Generation BitTorrent Client

A few weeks ago we reported that the EU Greens launched a pro-filesharing campaign named “I Wouldn’t Steal”. In a continued effort to support the development of P2P technology, the European Union has now invested $22 million in the development of an open-source BitTorrent client.

The team behind the social BitTorrent client Tribler is responsible for the core P2P technology for the project, dubbed P2P-Next. The project received $22 million (15 million Euro) from the European Union and another $6 million (4 million Euro) is brought in by some of the partners.

One of the biggest names taking part is the BBC, who will use the new BitTorrent client to stream TV programs. Other partners in the P2P-Next project are the European Broadcasting Union, Lancaster University, Markenfilm, Pioneer Digital Design Centre Limited and VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland. The main goal is to develop an open source, BitTorrent-compatible client that supports live streaming.

Approximately 50% of the people who use BitTorrent at any given point in time download TV shows. The current project will help broadcasters to find better ways to reach this online audience, and offer high quality on-demand television.

“This cooperation with both the British and German public broadcasters indicates that P2P is here to stay. We welcome the decision of the European Union to award this proposal around P2P. This means that Europe can expand it’s roughly two year lead in this important area,” Tribler’s Johan Pouwelse told TorrentFreak.

“Tribler serves as a testing ground for several world-first innovations. It serves as a living lab for P2P research. Key to our endeavor is an academically pure architecture: no central servers exist in Tribler in combination with being backwards compatible with BitTorrent,” Pouwelse added.

As part of the project, the Tribler team, together with Harvard researchers, implemented the “Nobel prize winning” mechanism design theory into their BitTorrent client. The ultimate goal is to encourage people to share as much as possible without imposing share ratio sanctions, and to let users moderate the available content.

BitTorrent sites are watching the P2P-Next project closely, and some might even be interested in experimenting with the new technology. We asked Johan Pouwelse if he sees possibilities to collaborate with BitTorrent sites, and he said: “We are creating tools for traditional broadcasters and also new entrants to the distribution market.”

I guess we should take that as a yes.

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  • rich

    wow this sounds promising

  • qm2006

    WTF ?

    A non-open-source client funded by the biggest, baddest and meanest corporation on the planet itself ?

    Anyone else having trouble with this ?

    Anybody seen my tinfoil hat ?

  • qm2006

    Correction: open souce.

    Anyway: EU bad.

  • WakuWaku

    Well … pass the tinfoil hat to me too.

  • Anonymous

    1 step back, 2 steps forward.
    p2p & torrents powers us little guys, RIAA, and MPA cant stop it anymore.

  • j

    22 million for something that takes a month to code…

    i ve already altered azureus’s piece selection mechanism to allow streaming while downloading…the way i ve done it, doesnt hurt the swarm health cause randomness is still maintained upto a certain extent so congestion is still avoided, but prioritization is given to the pieces inside the (sliding – moving) window of pieces who’s position is dictated by ur current playback location in the file….. offcourse when the avg swarm speed is lower than the playback rate, the playback wont be perfectly smooth on average for the swarm, but u can counter that by buffering a bit more (thus a slight delay be4 u are able to playback the file).. but on private sites where the seeders almost always outnumber the leechers, it works perfectly well…

    i m going to ask my uni if i m able to release the code (cause unfortunately it doesnt belong to me cause it was for my masters thesis)

  • freakfreak

    [quote comment="294029"]A non-open-source client funded by the biggest, baddest and meanest corporation on the planet itself ?[/quote]

    WTF are you talking about?

    a) it’s GPL’ed open souce and
    b) it’s mainly academic project from public universities founded by EU money (research grants!).

    You better eat your tinfoil hat since it’s smarter than yourself …

  • Marks

    The EU should go to hell. They should not be spending taxpayers money like this.

    This kind of project should be funded entirely by private corporations and individuals.

  • Dr. Tribler

    [quote comment="294049"]22 million for something that takes a month to code…
    i ve already altered azureus’s piece selection mechanism to allow streaming while downloading…the way i ve done it, doesnt hurt the swarm health cause randomness….[/quote]

    A message from the Tribler team…

    Sounds like interesting thesis work.
    Please take a flight to Amsterdam then and drop by our university if you can implement this in a month.
    We have a few open positions actually.

    The algorithm you describe has been published in 2006:
    http://castor.sics.se/presentations/papers/bitos.pdf
    This algorithm cannot be expanded to live real-time streaming from a webcam. You need an incentive for uploading in a multicast tree like setting. We implemented give-to-get and are getting it ready for deployment. Algorithm details & paper:
    http://www.tribler.org/Give-To-Get

    A lot of hard work is needed to move beyond tit-for-tat and improve speeds. Doing fraud proof sharing ratio enforcement without central servers is our aim.

    Johan.

  • freakfreak

    OMG!

    [quote comment="294065"]The EU should not be spending taxpayers money like this.
    [/quote]

    Why?
    They should not found public research that might even spin off some nice gadgets for the world of filesharing.

    Are you insane? Or are you working for MPAA, RIAA, IFPI or such?

    [quote comment="294065"]
    This kind of project should be funded entirely by private corporations and individuals.[/quote]

    WHAT?
    What would private corporations do good for something that ought to be publically available and transparent (by providing a proprietary piece of payware and monopolistic ambitions?) Are you dumb?

    Other than you are working for some old fashioned content MAFIAA I cannot make any sense from your posting.

    Tribler even researches on a distributed .torrent-file publishing mechanism that would turn every peer into it’s own tracker-architecture – ultimately rendering attacks against Torrent-sites like TPB ore demonoid useless and obsolete. So no head to chop of anymore. Pure filesharing anarchy!

    If that’s not worth our tax-payers money than what ;)

  • Friedman

    Yes! The EU should go to hell. They should not be spending taxpayers money like this. I mean, government funded research into important internet infrastructure? Come on! It´s bad enough that they can´t keep their filthy hands off roads and energy.

    Ehm.

    You know, you are also paying for it when private corporations fund projects. The cost is always passed on to the consumer.

    This way, it will be GPL, and it will not have the restrictions that corporations would put on it; like DRM management and copyright control.

  • most_uniQue

    [quote comment="294030"]
    Anyway: EU bad.[/quote]

    Rather EU then US*haha*

    I think americans are now jealous to us because we can develop new BitTorrent clients and you get to jail even saying the word torrent…

  • Anonymous

    DRM?

  • Frenchy

    You get a jail ticket if you only think about torrent in France. Ask Azureus’ founder why he relocated himself to US.

  • R2

    If you say “this kind of project should be only Undergroup developed” i could agree, but why private commerial? WTF
    There’s nothing better then academic projects, young people, non-commercial.
    They’ll try to do it on the best coding, not “what client asks”.
    I hope this can open the eyes of some companies that still see torrents and p2p as threats.

  • Anonymous

    [quote comment="294049"]22 million for something that takes a month to code…

    i ve already altered azureus’s piece selection mechanism to allow streaming while downloading…the way i ve done it, doesnt hurt the swarm health cause randomness is still maintained upto a certain extent so congestion is still avoided, but prioritization is given to the pieces inside the (sliding – moving) window of pieces who’s position is dictated by ur current playback location in the file….. offcourse when the avg swarm speed is lower than the playback rate, the playback wont be perfectly smooth on average for the swarm, but u can counter that by buffering a bit more (thus a slight delay be4 u are able to playback the file).. but on private sites where the seeders almost always outnumber the leechers, it works perfectly well…

    i m going to ask my uni if i m able to release the code (cause unfortunately it doesnt belong to me cause it was for my masters thesis)[/quote]

    Nobody gives a shitt about you. Go kill yourself.

  • bbfg

    How can anybody be against this? This is finally a step in the good direction and it gets negative response? This is better than investing the 22 million dollars in stopping downloading, like the US does(and probably MUCH MUCH more)

  • Anonymous

    I guess they want to make it mandatory for every internet user to pay broadcasting fees and not just those who own an antenna and a box.. at least that’s how it works with “tv-avgift” in Sweden at the moment.

  • John M

    @ Dr. Tribler

    How does “without imposing share ratio sanctions” coexist with “Doing fraud proof sharing ratio enforcement without central servers is our aim”?

    To be fair, I can only vaguely remember the ideas behind Harvard and Tribler’s new system as published here some months ago … but the crucial thing to look out for is that where we users really want our content is at home, and home broadband is severely asymmetric.

    I try to seed fairly, but my medium spec cable connection is ~500k down and only ~40k up on a good day. This spells ratios of 0.1 or so unless you seed like crazy for days on end: which I concentrate on doing for the swarms which need it most. I.e. if it’s got 100 seeds, I’m not hanging around … I’ll be over at the torrent with 1 or 2.

    So long as all this can be implemented to suit real world use, I’m all for it. Anything to make ratios either work or cease to matter, for the vast majority of us outside of campus who have to put up with domestic connections!

  • oneplusone

    Yeah, like 12 asked?
    Is this client going to DRM the file?

  • Toost Inc.

    I’ll rather have EU money spend on this then on hideous islands build in fron of the dutch coast trying to imitate Dubai…

    And as far as I know the EU only made pro-sharing statements so I don’t see why they would force this project into becoming some evil Big Brother.
    Not that they could by just funding it…

  • Who Knows?

    Nice idea, but most of the content eager to be devoured is coming from the USA. Although, there will be a few Americans and continental Europeans happy to get BBC live without Sat.

    Seems like a lot of money for something others have been doing on shoestring budgets. If they employed the makers of Azureus and all the others client makers, I might feel better. Too much public money!

  • Mr.IceMan

    Best news of this year :D

  • $%*$%

    [quote comment="294109"]Ask Azureus’ founder why he relocated himself to US.[/quote]

    Because of the weather?

  • stfu

    [quote comment="294065"]The EU should go to hell. They should not be spending taxpayers money like this.

    This kind of project should be funded entirely by private corporations and individuals.[/quote]

    You mean the same way the MPAA and RIAA operate? You pleb.

  • Not the Mama

    I’m curious. Will this new fangled system be ad-supported? i.e. Including advertisements within the streamed content? I hate ads.. which is why (I suspect), people use torrents in the first place.

    Will there be logging of IP addresses, like many of the parasitic vermin who inhabit the internet try to do already?

    Will this be a “sign up service” or is it anonymous?

    How do you intend to make money? What’s your business model? A 15 million Euro investment has to show a profit somehow.

    Also, a quote from your webpage:

    “Privacy

    From our license: [Tribler] will by default exchange your download history with others. This feature can be disabled by disabling the recommender in the Preference menu. See also the disclaimer at [the bottom of this page]”

    An opt-in would be better than an opt-out, don’t you think? As this sums up the privacy policy for this service, what, if any, information is sent and logged by your servers?

    Inquiring minds wish to know….

    *tinfoil hat on standby*

  • Tim

    [quote comment="294121"]I guess they want to make it mandatory for every internet user to pay broadcasting fees and not just those who own an antenna and a box.. at least that’s how it works with “tv-avgift” in Sweden at the moment.[/quote]

    It’s the same in Germany – public broadcasters just want to make money from every PC with internet … but that issue is completely unrelated to this thread and has nothing to do with filesharing whatsoever – and it’s especially completely unrelated to EU founding for p2p research.
    They would already want fees from anybody who only uses a web browser in case he might happen to access their unsolicited content offers …

    In germany there has been a nice satire about a man entering a pub and immediately upon entering being charged 4 Euros for a beer … because he COULD have ordered a beer in the pub and therefor should pay for it – even if he never got one!

  • rmrf42

    i somehow miss what seems to be wrong with this.

    this looks like a very good thing to me, and the fact that the EU funds this makes it even better :)

  • j

    @Dr. Tribler

    yes it was based on bitos (with a few notifications).. as i mentioned, that wasnt a complete re-write of a client from scratch.. just an extension of bittorrent protocol as is, retaining full back-wards compatibility (ie the modified client works perfectly fine with clients that dont support this extention meaning that it can utilize b/w from all the current bittorrent networks with 0 alterations to the trackers), coded on an already mature client (azureus). the time-frame i claimed this could be done was based on the aforementioned conditions.

    obviously, a webcam feed would not work with this scheme, as the torrent file itself cant be defined without the full data..

    your talking about a completely new protocol and i can see how that is much harder and complex than the implementation i did (and obviously more time consuming to develop).. I think the overhead for client-client communications to achieve a non-torrent file oriented system would be very high thus decreasing the overall efficiency of the new p2p system you guys are designing, unless you can find a completely new way to implement this… i cant even think of a way u ll be able to implement hash checking when the file downloading inst even defined on the original ‘seeder’…

    inmo, the market ur aiming at is a more commercial one and unless it offers comparable efficiency to bittorrent as it is, it wont be wide scale adopted by the public. i believe, bittorent is so established currently and close to as efficient as possible, that any new system has to give extreme advantages over it, in order for it get adopted widely..

    but i wish you good luck regardless.. more protocols to choose from cant hurt ;)

  • j

    my reply was mainly based on the title: Next-Generation BitTorrent Client.. i assumed you would do something close to what the bitos paper proposed, otherwise, u cant really call it bittorrent anymore, since it wont be compatible with the current clients nor the current protocol… unless i am missing something

    i apologize for making those assumptions and as such, my response on the time frame required to build this is completely wrong.

  • Cain

    Hail EU!

    The modern world.

  • freakfreak

    [quote comment="294143"]
    How do you intend to make money? What’s your business model? A 15 million Euro investment has to show a profit somehow.
    [/quote]

    It’s not an investment – it’s public research funding!

    And the only “profit” expected is the knowledge and expertise generated and the head start in that particular technology.

    [quote comment="294143"]
    a quote from your webpage:

    “[Tribler] will by default exchange your download history with others.”

    *tinfoil hat on standby*[/quote]

    Yep! Privacy will be a big issue to be watched carefully.

    But it’s GPL’ed – noone could ever prevent a privacy clone from being forked that omits to spread sensible information once Tribler has reached some “promising” maturity.

    It’s just an interesting development that deserves to be embraced – but it probably isn’t necessarily the answer to all p2p-desires ;)

  • h33t.com

    first the GOOD NEWS:

    great news for bittorrent and a victory for proponents of social filesharing. looks very good for the future

    the 14 million euro grant (not 15) is over 4 years and the output will be open source. big names like the BBC see the potential and are also backing the project. BEST NEWS IN THE PAST 3 YEARS!

    now the BAD:

    the retarded Harvard bandwidth currency idea still lives

    Tribler knows European domestic broadband is asymmetric, they already know not everyone is created equal in the world of bandwidth, but obviously they are ignorant of the fundamental reason why ratio systems do not work: the transparent network proxy issue. it is impossible to maintain a ratio system even with a central server system because a large percentage of web users share the same IP. the internet is contructed that way and to solve the problem you gonna have to redesign tcp/ip and it is not gonna happen

    why these people dont talk to real life site operators about the issues of bittorrent? because the suits are involved and it is based in an ivory tower … good for you guys but if you gonna have any chance of success or refunding then listen up

    issue: the author of the protocol, Bram, is against ‘give-to-get’ systems because it is less efficient than ‘tit-for-tat’

    issue: operability, any ratio system can be cheated, any regulatory system can be circumvented. if the code is open source then it will be cracked and hacked before the official release. dont be so arrogant to think you can hide your system in firmware, pre-teens are cracking their 360′s, ps3′s and psp’s. your beta team will leak the code so far ahead of alpha that the rival systems will hit the wild ahead of you

    issue: paucity of economic vision. why do you need a regulatory system to encourage giving/sharing? ask any economist about game theory

    my best guess is the devs were all members of Oink or demonoid and have grown up in the retarded ratio culture and they have swallowed it whole without chewing. if they do not see the box they are sitting in then there is little hope for the project. the world is not gonna sit still while they redesign the square wheel. and worse, what happens when their code is released in the lite version stripped of drm, ads and ratio

    i am interested to hear a response because i sincerely would like them to get a better idea and chance of success

  • Anonymous

    Hopefully they will manage to keep the parasites and dinosaurs away, but highly doubtfull..

  • Anonymous

    PS: good thing its open source though..

  • j

    @h33t.com

    ratio systems are flawed… IF they are enforced properly.. i have 4 trackers all of which have around 1/2 a million peers each.

    lets take as an example oink which had a huge seeder/leecher ratio.. that is neither good nor healthy.. u do get amazing speeds though… off-course the other side of the story, is public trackers, which are completely opposite and u get terrible speeds, but u can seed to high ratios very easily, if u so want to, but most ppl dont, which is apparent from the low ratio ;)

    demonoid did almost 0 enforcement in catching cheats or low ratio members, so i wont include it in the discussion, despite the fact that it flourished with the system it adopted; again though, at the expense of speed.. it was basically a public tracker with limited openings to induce value in ones account and hope that the members would seed (which it worked well for them)

    oink had a very good anti-cheater detection system, it wasn’t perfect, but it caught 80%-90% of the ratio cheaters… the problem though was, that ratios were enforced all to well causing a tiny number of leechers, which meant that members where inhibited, not by the amount they can upload due to their b/w limitations, but rather the lack of leechers… to counter that, they had to a) always increase in size so that fresh members come in that will leech – many of them got disabled due to over leeching (they had approximately 800 new users a day); b) lower min ratio requirements to 0.5 (and that was, if my memory serves me correctly, after u had d/led > 30Gb).. if it was alvoe today, the situation would get worse and worse.. more new users come in, leech a bit, then seed for months to get their ratio to an acceptable level… oink, wheter u like it or not, relied a lot on members getting banned for excessive leeching and cheating, in order for the download amount given to the banned members, to be re-used by the members that uploaded to them..

    but it is clear that the system is flawed.. u cant keep growing indefinitely… some private sites implement seeding bonuses, which inmo, also is flawed. It causes the torrents to ‘live’ a much shorter life-span than sites that dont have seeding bonuses. My point being, any site that enforces ratios properly (manages to get rid of most cheaters and leechers) have the problems oink had (at a much smaller scale obviously, but the problem is still there).. the point of ratios in the first place is to give incentives for ppl to share.. that obviously is achieved since private trackers generally have amazing speeds, which directly means that its members are sharing.. the cost of that, is lack of leechers, which in turn, makes it harder for seeders to increase and thus inhibiting downloading.

    sites that dont enforce ratios properly, but enforce them a bit, are the best really in this respect.. u dont get amazing speeds, but u can seed easily enough to cover most members downloading habbits + the speeds are much better than public trackers. but that is because ratio as a concept is flawed, so a flawed implementation of catching cheats and leechers actually benefits the tracker as a whole, ironically enough :P

    the point is to get what u want as fast as u can and cause the system to keep working for the next downloader. overseeding and underseeding are problems in any ratio based system or lack of ratio alltogether.

    so whats the middle line? how do u achieve enough incentive for speeds to be good, yet u wont have to seed for months and months to download a 500mb. i dont have an answer. on my trackers, i use a combination of lower than 1 min ratios, freeleech torrents and increasing the member-base daily. But i know, i m only postponing the problem. a new way has to be derived, that doesnt inhibit loglivetey of the files, yet provides good speeds, and is easy enough to seed, and can be implemented on large trackers as well

  • Very fishy

    From their own site:
    “P2P-Next will also address a number of outstanding challenges related to content delivery over the internet, including technical, legal, regulatory, security, business and commercial issues.”

    What exactly are these “outstanding challenges”? It looks to me as an attempt to control yet again, the flow of information.

  • thenotsojollyroger

    @ 35…….SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!

    thenotsojollyroger PROJECTS HIS LOVE FOR POT!

  • Bill Door

    to those people saying the EU shouldnt be spending tax payers money on things like this let me just point out its the only way to keep it open source and free to anyone to use without a price tag on it. if it was left to businesses then it would only be open to those who can afford it. this is just anouther way of keeping knowledge free and is no different to putting money into public library and 18 million euros from the EU is not as substantial as it seems. less than a million from each EU nation it represents is not a bad investment at all

  • Nadel

    OMG, is it true, first Norway and now Bittorent funds. Well I will wait that The worst case happens soon, hopefully not.

  • John M

    @ j

    Correct. The one thing worse than aysmetric bandwidth is trying to seed when there are NO downloading peers. I joined TheBox just the other day and am having precisely that problem. Looks like I’ll be automatically banned for my single downlaod, despite seeding it 24-7 since then. Quite literally: it’s taking a day to add 0.01 to my ratio!

    Madness. Broken concept. More reason to use the Pirate Bay…

    What we need is more public trackers. Or at least soft ratio enforcement which keeps you off new releases or anything over a given size, instead of gunning you down for being a good peer!

  • Anonymous

    You should be given upload credit per hour or so you seed regardless of whether someone leeches off you.

  • h33t.com

    @J

    that is one of the clearest statements i have read on the paradox of ratio inducement to seed. it does not work. i agree with you absolutely

    i have always said if i was MAFIAA i would invent the ratio and the private tracker to suppress the growth of filesharing .. look at what Twibler is doing here AGAIN and think about the forces suppressing the technology … Twibler is heavily invested in the enemy camp whilst taking the EU funds. if it was not an open source project then it would be theft

    nobody is listening to the ratio debate and you know why? because members like to count. they love ratio because members can compete over it or test themselves to keep it good. people love ranks and targets, look at all the games, they are all counters. the most complex counter is mixed with some strategy that can increase rate of growth of the counter

    you said it: we need an alternate system and i have already designed one which is waiting for the next version of h33t. it is based off torrent count. a torrent uploaded and seeded to completion = 1. a torrent downloaded = -1. share to keep your ratio positive and it is bandwidth transparent. it takes the same amount of investment to make a torrent of 712MB as it does to make one of 12MB if a full description is included

    look again at h33t, it is a public site with private site speeds. plus the torrents all come fully described and verified (torrent moderation). how is it done? on a purely swarm based aspect (no politic):

    1. recognise that filesharing is social networking and enable the social network
    2. torrent moderation, get hands on with the uploads and uploaders
    3. engage the membership in an identity which inspires them

    difference between h33t and mininova, both started at the same time, is the difference between day and nite. one is a dump site the other is all about protocols

    currently there is a role for the big dump site that exists for the ad revenue, but that site will ultimately be replaced by sites that verify the torrents

    the cost for h33t is huge. growth rate is almost nothing and every uploader must be coached and groomed. but then h33t unlike TPB is not gonna be standing in a court because i could not control the index

    HERE: i am more likely to seed a torrent from h33t that has standards and means something than i am to seed a torrent i have taken from mininova that has no standards and no community (if they dont recognise the rise and power of the social networks then they are walking dead)

    you have another very interesting factor in your discussion and i call it the growth wave. bittorrent is growing globally and if you free the system from regulation then the swarms will grow simply because every day there are 1 million more filesharers discovering bittorrent and coming onboard. that is the external momentum which fuels the swarms regardless of your efforts

    conclusion: resist regulation because the internet is about freedom and choice and that is its greatest strength. social networking responds positively to standards based facilitation after which the membership are loyal to seed beyond the capabilities of any ratio/regulation based system

    share everything you have because tomorrow you will have more to share

  • h33t.com

    @J

    send me your admin email

  • Belligerent Engine

    While I’m glad that the EU is spending my tax money on something other than corruption, I’d be much happier seeing something like Multicast deployment being supported in addition to this. Of course multicast is basically already researched, and mostly only needs to be deployed now, and thus isn’t as sexy a research topic.

    But, fuck, Multicast would bring us unlimited Internet TV channels (just not very on-demand)! Proper broadcasting to a limitless number of recipients without needing a 10 gigabit upstream! It’d be friendly to the backbone too, which BitTorrent right now isn’t.

  • Anonymous

    It appears that h33t.com is in very good hands.

  • Jack

    Its great to see the EU investing in anything academic that is free software. We don’t have to use this client, and seeing as its open code I can’t see how any of us can suffer from it – surely we can all only benefit from this project?

    The BBC’s involvement makes me skeptical though – why would a DRM addicted P2P killing corporate whore like them invest in something unless it would directly benefit their titan paymasters? I like others look on in interest. For now I’ll stick with ants/mute and azureus.

  • Philip Hunt

    #8: The EU should go to hell. They should not be spending taxpayers money like this.

    Quite right! It was bad enough the Europeans wasting precious taxpayers’ money on that crappy “world wide web” system, I’m sure this will be an even bigger waste of money.

  • stfu

    The problem with private sites is ratio enforcement full stop. Private sites are elitist in there selection of uploaders, prefering high speed peers or peers with seedboxes to your average residential peer who’s upload may not be so great, but wish to share none the less. Ratio sites do nothing but promote ratio whoring, which in my opinion is not a good thing for members or the swarm as a whole. Letting people sit on a torrent to 10:1 is worse than the odd hit and run.

    There is no problem on public sites with speed provided, 1) you pick a popular download, 2) you pick a file with a good seed:peer ratio, and 3) you know how the fuck to use public sites and avoid fake files. Any one who cant use a public site is a noob, seriously, and needs private sites to compensate for their lack of know how. Public sites will always be around, and they will always generate more traffic than private due to their nature and openess. Public sites should not have a requirement to enforce ratios, that is down to the individual. Personaly I think a system for clients similar to the way emule works is a better option, where peers are prefered where they have show they can share, and those who choose only to leech get lower priority, rather than promoting the ever expanding scourge on p2p that are private trackers.

    No one really cares about the size of your epenis, I couldnt give a shit how much your servers cost to run, stop begging users for money and get a fkin job, or some ads, and stiop pretending you’re ‘scene’ when you know they can’t stand you ripping off their releases for your own gain.

    P2P is about sharing, its not about what you get out of it, its about what you put into it. People who prefer private sites will state they dont use public sites ‘because they get nothing out of it’, (see epenis), and that is most of the problem.

  • Crandom

    Finally, this could be the beginning of the legalisation of filesharing! Maybe now the world (or at least the best part of it, thats in the EU and not owned by the MAFIAA) is swinging round.

  • Gozza

    When you say ‘$ 22 million’, you have to specify –>>US<<– Dollar.

    When a figure is put out by a group you should first call it by the currency the group originates from (in this case Euro’s). Converted major currencies should go between brackets.

    I assume you write from the USA, but the news you’re dealing with is hardly local. So please please keep in mind that your readers have a different mental frame.

  • Anonymous

    it looks dumb. i want to use utorrent

  • Axel

    some one pass that tin foil hat

  • Damn

    hmm..

    I thought there was supposed to come some sort of law that made ISPs choke the speed of those using Bittorrent…

    And now the EU is making it’s own Bittorrent client??

    woooot?

    *cunfused*

  • wade boggs

    fuckin eh . p2p for life

  • system

    So were exactly do these millions of euros go?
    Does it really cost millions of euros a month to sit on your arse and talk?
    Or is it because someone needs a 2 million euro blackboard and 12 million euros worth of chalk, pens and paper?
    If this was put to tender, tribbler/next would have lost due to cost. It could be done at no cost, like most other open source projects.

    I hope some of this money goes to those who have been doing research and publishing to the public domain at no cost. You know, all those who supplied the real extensive work that this will be built on.

  • Gorgomon

    Corporate controlled P2P?

    How low will they stoop?

    {Thanks for the offer but I’ll pass.}

    Can’t beat us so try to join us? k1ss my large hairy botty silly corporations. I’ll never DL from a corporate P2P.

  • King

    What about this.

    EU develops an great software, then make us pay or illegal?

    Maybe they are trying to get into the game here…

  • anon

    Philip Hunt: +1 and lol those crazy guys from CERN

  • Charbax

    We need better P2P now. Live P2P would be great. HDTV on P2P, embedded on NAS and Video-on-demand set-top-boxes.

  • Black

    One more thing the mighty EU needs to do if this program/research is to succeed is to make p2p trafic throtteling ILLEGAL in all EU nations.
    What good will it do if we have a good sofware but our own ISP’s are chocking the line to death…

  • Real Motherfucker

    lol 22millions, and its all from my taxes bitches

    for 22millions it will be more flashy than most flash web 2.0 sites on the web, so bloated :)

  • anonymous2

    This wins the Nobel Boring Prize.

  • secret

    do want encryption.

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  • cc

    something smelly here

  • KoolDude

    India is developing its own secured P2P platform. Already received patent it seems for their system. check it out at http://www.netalter.com

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  • Welshie

    I forsee *rubs his crystal balls*

    By the time my kids are my age, there will be no need to download content onto HDD’s as will be able to select their viewing by reading onscreen reviews (written by independant fans who were ‘streamed’ a promo copy for review purposes 24 hours earlier).

    A back catalogue will be accessable through further menus (complimented by search engines). For example, if you wanted to watch ‘Coronation Street’ or ‘Dallas’ you could browse by year, storyline, etc.

    ‘Normal’ TV will just be a series of adverts. You will press the ‘Entertain me’ button which will start a series of programs/movies suitable for your tastes (based on previous viewing/rating details provided by the user) with presets such as ‘Kids time’, ‘Me & the missus’, ‘Boys night in’, etc.

    The basic costs will be met by an affordable monthly fee (which covers Monitor and streaming equipment rental/repairs/upgrades). The random content selected for you will be very cheap. Prices on everything else will be set as follows…

    When a program/movie first appears, the price is set to a low amount (say the 2040 version of 50p or $1.00). As more people stream it, the price gradually increases until it reaches its ‘roof’ (say £4.00 or $8.00). So for every 100,000 streams, the price could increase by 50p until it reaches its limit. Every year, the numbers are reset. This would be a very reliable indicator of quality, and a good way to entice people to watch your show/movie ASAP (before the price goes up). Using this system, George
    Lucas’s grandchildren will never starve!

    To protect the customer, they will be able to set up ‘limits’ on the costs. If you limited yourself to £40.00 per month, the system will warn you when you reach the monthly limit, then ask for your permission for every ‘purchase’ thereafter. It
    resets when the bill is settled.

    My crystal balls have worn down to pea size now. No more can I help you with today…

    @ post #9 Dr Tribler…despite the simularity between your name and the project (some coincidence huh?), I think you wanted to call yourself Dr Trebla…you see, Trebla is Albert spelt backwards and he is the secret mole who tells nephew Shaggy and Rooby-roo all about his ‘masters’ diabolical plans…

    /getting my coat now (it’s the one with the scooby snacks in the left pocket).

  • Anonymous

    [quote comment="294815"]India is developing its own secured P2P platform. Already received patent it seems for their system. check it out at http://www.netalter.com/quote

    CUT THAT CRAP SPAMMING!

    It’s a private companies product, using UNIQUE IDENTIFIER (i.e. tracking all of your internet search and surfing!) and says about itself:
    “NetAlter aims to have its browser on every desktop computer in the world creating a spiraling revenue source.”

    Could it be any more malicious?!?

    It’s NOT “india is developing a secured p2p platform”

    it IS “an indian based private company using p2p technology to spin of a big brother like monopolistic social network to generate maximum revenue.”

    Are you pathetic moron paid for posting this bullshit?

    viral marketing whore!

  • CDDVDHeaven

    Just loaded it up to have a lookie and found it funny that it’s own search feature gave 99% pirated results as a default search.
    [img]http://www.dididave.com/bitbucket/new%20torrent%20software%20search%20page%20lol.jpg[/img]

  • his0

    i’m shocked by comments like
    “EU = bad” what the fuck does this mean ?
    looks like anything outside the US is evil and you only are “holy”, is it the current propaganda campaign in your contry to make EU sound like bad ? wake up, the fact you are not controlling something doesnt mean this thing have to be BAD. egocentric americans

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  • Wibble

    I take it because there is government spending involved that this “new” client will have monitoring capabilities and drm facilities?

    I highly doubt that a new BT client would be created (with public money no less) without the guarantee that it can’t be used for copyright infringement, it if it is then at least they’re going to know about it.

    There’s no way a huge step like this would be taken altruistically.

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  • y

    agreed

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  • mdg

    *confused*

    How the hell can streaming work, if most viewers are on asymetric broadband ?

    Say the (hdvideo) file has a bitrate of 1200kb/s … Standard up atm here in germany is 0,5 – 1 mbit so anywhere between 120 – 240 users needed to saturate ONE viewer … (who will close the file/prog after he watched it)

  • OPP

    [quote comment="295121"]I take it because there is government spending involved that this “new” client will have monitoring capabilities and drm facilities?

    I highly doubt that a new BT client would be created (with public money no less) without the guarantee that it can’t be used for copyright infringement, it if it is then at least they’re going to know about it.

    There’s no way a huge step like this would be taken altruistically.[/quote]

    I’m sorry but the MPAA and/or the U.S government aren’t involved in this process.

  • anon

    Expect the Riaa/Mpaa dogs to start suing the EU the moment someone uploads ‘their’ stuff on the next-gen BT.

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  • Sv

    @h33t.com

    I completely agree with your theory that seeding motivation comes from a sense of belonging to the community. I also think that a concern for ratios and the problem of high levels of hit and running particularly on public sites is a temporary phenomenon, because as digital sharing becomes more ingrained within society and our culture, as well as improvements in broadband technology and bandwidth, staying on a torrent and seeding will simply become a social norm.

    Hit and running will become a thing of the past and seeding a torrent will become much akin to holding a door open for someone in the real world, i.e. it will become instinctual. But in the mean time the building blocks are needed to enforce this attitude in the first place, namely community orientated trackers, especially public ones such as h33t.

    That’s my theory, at least.

  • Sv

    *Hit and running and also ratios will become a thing of the past

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  • http://bittorrentnews.com Bittorrent News

    In other news, serbia burns the EU flag.

  • AIMEEbaby

    We are very excited to announce that the Global job search engine has been released!
    perfectsea.comis the first website that includes all jobs related to a lot of countries that speak English.
    There are over 8 countries and/or areas jobs on PerfectSea.com. It searches over thousands job sites and provide millions jobs to our customers.
    We use total automatic Robot technology to collect tons information from website, do analysis. So perfectsea.com provides the unique job search environment to our customers, let
    them have a place to search all jobs in the world. This is one site solution.
    Let people just come to one website and search the job, whatever where the job is, what kind of job the user wants.
    Job seeker can get great benefits from it. People don’t need to go to different website for looking for job. This is one stop solution.
    Perfectsea.com will change the way people looking for the job

  • Flclkun

    Sounds nice, but i sense a trap, this has FBI monitoring and drm finger prints over it. nice concept though.

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  • jse

    The fact that Britain pays 1 million pounds an hour into the ESF (European social Fund) is dispicable, The fact that your then going to use that money not on education not on health care and not on poverty but a new bit torrent client that can stream videos… what the fuck is wrong with you, we have streaming websites youtube/google and we have bittorrent clients, so this is 100% pointless i would never touch anything from you scum fucks, give us all back our sovrignty and FUCK OFF AND DIE YOU SCUM FUCKS

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  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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