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ISP Cannot Be Forced To Block Copyright Infringing Files

An advisor to the European Court of Justice has said that an ISP involved in a long-running file-sharing dispute cannot be forced to block or filter copyright-infringing files at the behest of copyright holders. Such an action would amount to an invasion of customers’ privacy and violate rights guaranteed under EU law.

sabamThe dispute between music rights group SABAM and Internet provider Scarlet has been long-running and was initiated when the ISP was called Tiscali and under different ownership.

SABAM hoped that through aggressive legal action, funded by its paymasters in the international music industry, that it could force Scarlet to install filtering devices in its network to monitor customer communications and stop them if they attempt to send or receive copyrighted music.

In 2007 they succeeded, with the Brussels Court ruling that Scarlet should install the industry-approved Audible Magic music fingerprinting system. The ISP objected, saying that by spying on its customers it would be acting illegally. Adding insult to injury, Audible Magic did not perform meaning that Scarlet could not comply with the court order to stop all infringement with the tools it had been given.

The court reversed its decision and the case went to the Brussels Court of Appeal which immediately handed it over to the European Court Of Justice. The outcome would be crucial, since it would indicate whether ISPs could be held responsible for subscriber behavior and be forced to block or introduce filters.

In the last 24 hours, an advocate general of the European Court of Justice has handed down his advice in the case.

Advocate General Cruz Villalón said that “the installation of that filtering and blocking system is a restriction on the right to respect for the privacy of communications and the right to protection of personal data, both of which are rights protected under the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

“By the same token, the deployment of such a system would restrict freedom of information, which is also protected by the Charter of Fundamental Rights.”

Villalón said that the rights within the Charter can be restricted, “on condition, inter alia, that any such restriction is ‘in accordance with the law’” and if it were “adopted on a national legal basis which was accessible, clear and predictable.”

Villalón also expressed concern that decisions made by the filter would be made without judicial oversight.

The court order would apply “…in abstracto and as a preventive measure, which means that a finding would not first have been made that there had been an actual infringement of an intellectual property right or even that an imminent infringement was likely.”

Furthermore, Villalón said that a pro-filtering ruling would not only affect Scarlet users in Belgium but those contracted to other ISPs in different countries, since Scarlet customers may very well be communicating with them on the Internet

Taking the above into consideration, Advocate General Cruz Villalón ruled that the installation of this kind of blocking and filtering systems would amount to a restriction on the right to privacy and the right to protection of personal data, both of which are rights protected under the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

“By the same token,” adds Villalón, “the deployment of such a system would restrict freedom of information, which is also protected by the Charter of Fundamental Rights.”

The European Court of Justice are not obliged to act on the advice given by Advocate General Villalón but his opinion will add significant weighting to the decision process.

Court of Justice Release (.pdf)

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  • Anon

    It seems to me the fair solution is to give total freedom on the internet, but monitor, capture and punish just as we do on the highways, with heavily upgraded punishments for using technology to evade online accountability. The truly free internet we all want hinges on every user’s intent to be accountable. It’s that way in the material world and securing that in the digital world is the only realistic way forward. Without that and continued unlawful behavior online, governments will take away our freedoms. There is a huge distinction between digital and analog property, but there will be no difference in what is legal or not, regardless of the realm.

    • PepeTrueno

      dude, you such a tool!

    • Herbert

      the thing i find wrong with your proposal is that atm if someone commits a crime, evidence has to be submitted to prove the person actually committed the crime, being assumed innocent until/unless proven guilty. another thing is that the person that is proven to have committed the crime is the one that is punished, not the rest of the household/company/town/country/ whatever. lastly, the laws that allow the convicted person are made by the government/law makers for the good of all. they are not made at the behest of/for the benefit of a single/multiple industry/ies that have a particular vested interest in gaining control of the very thing that is in dispute, ie, file sharing and the use of the Internet.

      • Anon

        Herbert, you are wrong on all counts, sir. First, when you blow through a speed trap you get a ticket. You can contest it on your time and at your cost, but you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. It has always been that way.

        Second, if you do that enough times you lose your right to drive. Your whole family is affected by that and it has always been that way, too.

        And Third, this is not at the behest of any particular industry. Music was the first to be affected, no disagreement there, and music is leading the way. But this is to benefit ANY business, probably EVERY business in the future as more and more moves online and digital property is increasingly the coin of the business realm. You fail on three out of your three of your points, sir.

        You can drive ANYwhere you want as long as you follow driving rules. If we want a free internet along the model of the highway systems, pirates better get this message. We accept it on the highway and this will be the way of the future online. All that remains is seeing who decides to hide and infringe, and what the government will take from us in the way of onionskin routing, encryption or VPN’s, to make online life accountable. It’s your rejection of simple accountability that is taking our freedoms away.

        • Ctilluma

          You have a ticket which is mostly a summons to court for the offense listed. You remain innocent until you either acknowledge guilt (by paying the ticket or pleading guilty or nolo contendere in court) or you are found guilty by the court (if you plead innocent). It’s still innocent until proven guilty.

          Yes, but your whole family does not lose the right to drive. Only you lose the right to drive. So the family is affected by your altered behavior, but they are not affected by the loss of driving privileges themselves. VASTLY different.

          This is at the behest of particular industries. Even if it is just the company / industry fighting this in court and not additional support from others, then it’s still at the behest of this industry. They are the prosecution team who brought this to court, so of anyone, it is in behest of the company / industry that brought the case.

          All that these draconian measures will do is drive all traffic to be encrypted and then we’ll be at a bigger problem. The measures of these individual companies pushing for draconian internet is costing national security because their unintended result of pushing all internet traffic toward encryption will prevent anyone from seeing what may be critical infformation about say, a bomb blast occuring in your building. Your desire to back those who believe in guilty until proven innocent and making everyone suffer because of one persons error (which would even be a mistake) takes society to a near police state.

        • Anon

          And… you are happy that a police officer has a greater legal say than you, especially if it is a cop who is on a power trip? Personally, they should have to provide hard evidence for all cases, instead of just their word and showing up.

          As for speed limits, I have done light research and gave a presentation on how they can be beneficial (high velocity results in high damage, greater chance of avoiding, or relatively less damage to, sudden appearances on the road, can get out safely at one stop sign T-intersections, relatively slower wear on the car results in less financial cost over time) but I also know how painful and unnecessary they are to follow at times. In light of this, I believe that they should get rid of red light cameras (they tend to be overly sensitive when it comes to turning right on red), and lighten up on enforcing speed limits.

          Oh, one more thing: whose idea was it to design speed bumps, humps, and tables such that one cannot go over them at the speed limit without screwing up their car in some way?

        • Ctilluma

          Many reports have come out regarding the increased accidents and risks to drivers at intersections with red light cameras. ( http://blog.motorists.org/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/ )

          Just like red light cameras, proposing an ISP has to implement filtering increases the risks with the only apparent reasoning being to increase revenue for certain groups. Perfect examples of how laws and implementation of those laws aren’t really in the public’s best interest and serve to provide to the few at the risks and costs to many innocent bystanders.

        • Anon

          Ok i was being a little ignorant.

        • Hikaricore

          As usual.

        • Marcus

          Why do people who have no real knowledge of the law insist on spouting ill informed nonsense as is they were an expert?

          Bloody know-it-alls.

        • Anon

          Ok i was being a little ignorant.

        • Anonymous

          Ctilluma beat me to it (and said it better than I can) but I’m still going to reply.
          First, you seem to have no idea how speeding fines work as guilt is never presumed.
          Second, punishment is aimed at offenders not vehicles, therefore other family members can continue to use that same vehicle.
          Third, road laws are designed for and based around safety. They are implemented to save lives not to protect profits of private companies.
          So is it actually you that is wrong on all counts?? haha
          You owe Herbert an apology.

        • Freedom fighter

          I see the point of your argument Anon, but why in the world would we want the internet to be regulated like highways? These proposed laws go far beyond file sharing, its about our entire freedom on the internet. Take file sharing out of it and look at your proposal, would you really want someone saying where you can and cannot go on the internet or someone watching everything you do? It boils down to treating people like they’re children, with mommy and daddy making the rules for all of us and giving us a slap on the wrist if we fall out of line. Wake up! We are not just fighting for file sharing but the freedom that makes the internet what it is.

        • Anon

          “Wake up! We are not just fighting for file sharing but the freedom that makes the internet what it is.”

          I think I’m well awake because I see the same trends as you do and we all see where this is going. You don’t seem willing to actually DO anything but complain and continue to infringe, misappropriating “free speech” and “censorship” and “freedom” in that process. Since when does “freedom” inherently have to facilitate unlawful activity? Since when is it “censorship” to safeguard digital product? You trivialize important freedoms when you argue stupid stuff like that. In NO place in the world is there a “right” to go wherever you want to go and do whatever you want to do when you get there. Well, maybe Somalia. lol What planet do you live on?

          The whole point is with genuine freedom comes genuine responsibility, online or off, and that responsibility is being defined by your unlawful behavior. Filesharing is the least of it when you consider online, unlawful behavior, but unlawful is unlawful and the governments will take whatever freedoms we have left until the internet is “secure” in a very similar way a nations highways are “secure”. Sure, you can hide and break the law. But it won’t go well for you when you get caught and if enough continue the break the law, in a civilized society the noose tightens.

          It’s really delusional that you try to blame this on government. or crazier still, the recording industry? lol

        • Anon

          Maybe you should just pull on your tinfoil hat and head for the basement. ;-)

        • Anon

          Maybe you should just pull on your tinfoil hat and head for the basement. ;-)

        • Freedom fighter

          True in the PHYSICAL world we live in we don’t have complete freedom. We have a balance of security and privacy or you can call it safety and freedom but we aren’t talking about the physical world here. There isn’t someone who will be physically hurt by my or your actions here. My argument has nothing to do with file sharing, it was for freedom of information and movement on the internet. Who has claim to govern something that is world wide? These proposed laws were about file sharing but if this goes into law then how long before governments go further and restrict other things. Sure certain countries like China don’t allow their citizens to go everywhere on the internet but I know I don’t want that for my country. I don’t want to be watched everywhere I go or be restricted to go to certain places on the internet.

          I think deep down most of us pirates can see that there is something ethically wrong with free downloading of music and movies, but to “solve” the problem by laws like the ones proposed above is a slippery slope to the internet to become more of a propaganda and tools for governments worldwide, not just in the US. If you cant see that any governing body would want that then you are the delusional one.

        • Anon

          “but if this goes into law then how long before governments go further and restrict other things.”

          Allow me to pass you the tinfoil. You are so THERE. ;-)

        • Freedom fighter

          “Allow me to pass you the tinfoil. You are so THERE. ;-)” from below

          I would most definitely be there then watch as my freedoms are taken away…smile and say “Thank you for protecting me from myself :)”

        • Anonymous

          @anon
          Benjamin Franklin seems to think you do not deserve your freedom or security.
          “He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither”.
          Then there is Advocate General Cruz Villalón from the article above and most of the readers here. In fact i think you know that you are wrong but bend the truth because you are one of the leeches.

        • Ctilluma

          Freedom does require responsibility (and a willingness to die to protect it). More importantly however is that the government (supposedly an entity comprised of it’s citizens) is responsibility to the people to create and implement policies that will further it’s people growth without marginalization.

          Here in the United States, the idea’s of intellectual property were codified in an effort to help encourage new thought and allow innovators to receive benefit for their work while also helping ensure those works will benefit the population as a whole. We set up an amount of time an innovator or author could protect their work and receive renumeration as they see fit. After that time, new ideas are then released into the general public where they can be expounded upon and help grow society’s arts and sciences.

          Unfortunately certain groups in an ever so greedy manner decided they wanted to maintain control of their works and receive money and licensing in perpetuity. As a result of lots of money, costly lobbying efforts, and politicians who don’t hold the welfare of their constituency rate very high, our copyright law has expanded to three times it’s initial length of time when life expectancy has only doubled.

          So in the face of an industry who doesn’t wish to follow the intent of the document that codified their own government, who have little to no regard for the rights of their own consumers (let alone the general public), who thusly demonstrate they don’t care about the furthering of the nation or civilization as a whole – it’s very easy to see why not only would said government get blamed, but the recording industry who is behind this would get blamed as well.

          Why in the light of these behaviors would people find a way to justify their actions the way they do? When an industry believes they have the right to violate the law and trample people’s rights and freedoms, why would it be wrong for someone to treat them the same way? If the recording industry really wants people to start following the law, they would lead by example and follow laws themselves. The truth though is that they don’t want people to follow the law. Their drop in revenue is more a function of fewer recorded items people actually would want and pay for at any price coupled with a global recession and not a function of increased piracy. Because their revenues are down, they are highly interested in continuing the current method of taking file sharers to court. At $150,000 maximum they can collect per work, it’s a far better margin than the 80 cents they might get from a song downloaded and paid for.

          In a proper civilized society, everybody follows the law. If anybody wishes to pick and choose which laws they abide, then it is only fair that others can do the same when dealing with that source organization.

          Nature balances things out. The stronger a force, the stronger the opposite and equal force. The more that industry and government wish to stifle the rights of the people, the more the people are going to find means to diffuse the power of industry and government.

        • Anonymous

          “We set up an amount of time an innovator or author could protect their work and receive renumeration as they see fit. After that time, new ideas are then released into the general public where they can be expounded upon and help grow society’s arts and sciences.”

          Which is all as it should be.

          But the thing is, people download newly-released material all the time. Material which would certainly fall inside what might be considered a “fair copyright term”. I’d be willing to bet (but have no firm data to prove it except things like the ‘Top ten BT downloads’) that the majority of downloaded material would all within those terms.

          And yet some of those doing the downloading often claim that they are only doing it because the copyright laws have got out of hand and are no longer ‘fair’, and that if the laws were changed they wouldn’t be doing it.

          I suspect a lot of that’s just talk, or that it’s simply used as a justification or an excuse, and that even if the laws were changed the newly-released material would continue to enjoy huge numbers of downloads.

          I also suspect that the entertainment industry cares less its about older works (except for some, perhaps) than new ones. It’s those new works which they complain most vociferously about, and their lobbying to implement new laws is very likely concentrated on ‘protecting’ those works.

          But, given that changing the copyright laws and durations, so that they are closer to the aims and goals that they were originally intended to bring, very likely wouldn’t affect how many ‘new’ works are downloaded I don’t see how that would help. Or not from the industry’s point of view at any rate.

          I’m not trying to defend the industry here, nor the current state of copyright (which I think needs a serious overhaul). I’m just wondering whether there is a solution to be had.

          Thumbs up to the ECJ. I hope we see many more sane rulings like this one. But I can’t help but wonder, did the MAFIAA forget to pay someone?

        • http://krigan.wordpress.com lastbastard

          When you are trapped at highway you get a ticket. That is, a Doppler radar says you are over speed limit, and a photo (or a policeman) says this is your car. It is also common the policeman ask you for your driver license. It is hard to believe the car owner doesn’t know who was driving his/her car at that time, even if a policeman didn’t check the driver license.

          When RIAA gets your IP, this is just the IP of your home conection. It says nothing about who is downloading, and it is not easy for the Internet suscriber to know who the hell downloaded that particular content.

          You can loss your driver license, but your wife/husband and your son/daughter are not affected. They keep their licenses, if any. You are clearly falling in a fallacy here.

          And third, this IS at the behest of a particular industry. Just read the damm article, we are not talking about any other industry but content industry.

        • Anon

          “the content industry” lol
          The world’s governments don’t care ALL that much about Britney’s latest album lastbastard, why do you think they’ve let this go for a decade? They are watching to see what you’ll do if the industries sell you the tools and the lack of current legislation provides you the opportunities. Now they see and now they are passing laws to make you easier to catch and punish while you all cry like leetle gurrrrrrlz.

          They have pharmaceutical formula and automotive design and a hundred other more important industries to protect, and music was/is the guinea pig. Big deal, and you think this is about your right to infringe recorded music. I’m beginning to understand why the best you can muster is a middle finger and a VPN. “the content industry’ lol morons. hahaha

        • Ven

          “I’m beginning to understand why the best you can muster is a middle finger and a VPN. “the content industry’ lol morons. hahaha ”
          The mentality that ‘we can hide better than you can catch us, so change the laws your ignorant fools’ makes me wonder what the future of the internet will be. Right now, VPN use is successful because there is no international standard of laws. As more and more of the world economy gets tied up in digital information, I only see three potential outcomes:

          - The world (or a large portion of it) sets down international standards by which infringing on copyright can be handled (i.e. VPNs can either track and hand over IP information or get shut down).
          - The internet is divided into domestic internet (where you can do whatever you want and get caught for it) and the international internet (which would get used primarily for business solutions.
          - Countries just start blocking foreign IPs, making public internet fall entirely within their own jurisdiction.

          I have yet to see any information that would lead me to believe that all the governments of the world would ever consider legalizing the sharing of copyrighted works.

        • http://krigan.wordpress.com lastbastard

          It is plain wrong to assume governments will do whatever madness you can imagine to stop filesharing. They won’t. They don’t do it to stop murders because the cure would be worse that the sickness.

          So let’s assume Constitution will not be abolished, right?

        • Ven

          Murder does not create a great deal of economic instability. When it does, everybody is willing to do whatever it takes to resolve the problem.

        • Aussie

          A major problem with this is that you need every country to get on board with the idea or it just wont work. Every country that doesnt agree to share data, IP’s, etc will simply become a safe haven, and there are enough countries out there that will take the business that you can guarantee it will happen.

          It happens in many other fields, and has been a problem with them for centuries. Not years or decades, but centuries.

          Countries blocking foreign IP’s wont work, simply from a diplomatic point of view. Do you block China? The USA? Germany? What would the repercussions be? Nearly 10 years ago I raised this as an issue locally and basically got told it was in the too hard basket. Its not an easy answer, because the laws in one country are never the same as the laws in another country, and those differences create major issues.

          You’re seeing it now with some countries coming down hard on filesharing, others giving the blunt end of the stick to the lawyers with their spamming tactics. Every case decided is creating case law that will be very hard not to follow, and that is going to create very different playing fields around the world.

          This advice here, presuming its followed, potentially creates a near continent wide safe haven when tied to other decisions supporting the IP not being enough. While copyright protectors can go deeper, by chasing the person and their machine for hard evidence, the cost of doing that is prohibitive.

          These issues have to be worked through on a global scale, and that is very very hard to do in practice.

        • Anonymous

          The world’s governments care as much about Britney’s latest album as the content industry pays them to care, and they pay quite well. Hence liberty taking a very frequent distant back seat to copyright protection.

          “why do you think they’ve let this go for a decade”? Hahahahahahahaha. The government has been fighting tooth and nail to destroy filesharing for a decade. They failed because they’ve got no power over the internet. But I see what you did there, pretend they haven’t even been trying in order to hide their colossal failure.

          And they’re passing laws to make it easier to catch and punish us? They are? All I’ve seen them do is pass things like HADOPI and similar jokes that promise to bring down filesharing and then do jack shit while we all sit back and laugh at it.

          Why… It’s almost like the whole concept of sniffing out filesharers by monitoring internet traffic or harvesting IP addresses from torrent swarms doesn’t fucking work.

          Also, a little correction. You don’t need a middle finger and a VPN. Just the middle finger. The odds of being caught filesharing even *without* covering your tracks are so astronomically low that a person doesn’t even need a VPN. But if you want 100% safety, as opposed to a mere 99%, then sure. Use a VPN.

          “lol morons hahaha” IS the proper way to address the content industry, though. I agree that part of your comment.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          “When RIAA gets your IP, this is just the IP of your home conection. ”

          Not necessarily. As the university of washington showed in a study, any dynamically distributed ip may have been anything at all. And they proved this by simply counting the number of DMCA notices which were sent them on behalf of ip numbers belonging to laser printers and router switches.

          It’s more accurate to say that the average RIAA “DMCA notice” is comparable to a crayon drawing of a “red car with slanty-looking headlights” made by a three-year old as far as concerns verifiable identification.

          That’s a far cry from photographic evidence and a doppler radar gun.

          And that aside there’s still the problem that when you drive on the highway you are operating a ton of metal at high speeds for which the law requires education and a license. Going on the internet is basically comparable to walking around in the streets and starting conversations. There is no proportional requirement which meets the standard to demand similar checks on personal communication as that which is considered all right on a highway.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FCNK7C55CBUYFVSC5LNWKB322E Buglord

          btw, more than 90% of norway drives too fast nearly everywhere, all the time they are driving, schools break copyright laws more than most people would and the gov is breaking lots of laws, if it’s illegal in norway, nobody cares, the prisons are free hotels with education, pay, tv and idk how much more freedom they get, anyways..

          democracy is not what anyone’s using, they’re using what I’d call (corrupted) representative-democracy, meaning you vote on who gets the bribes to vote what most may not want. democracy is supposed to be everyone votes on everything, no leaders at all, just like communism is everyone sharing everything (work, food, water, energy, resources, information etc.) and even there there is no leader, everyone contributes to how things are done.
          only humans make things corrupted, and that’s just about all they do.

        • Lothor The Evil

          “You can contest it on your time and at your cost, but you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent”

          So you’re saying if someone accuses you of committing a crime, any crime, you are therefore automatically guilty based just on accusation alone? Well be that the case then I accuse you of raping and molesting children. Go ahead and prove your innocence. By your own fucking words you are hereby guilty of child abuse and therefore must prove your own innocence.
          Just because someone says someone did something does not prove a god damn thing jackass.

        • Anon

          True. We agree. But keep it up so they change the law to mean that, and then blame them for reacting to your unlawful behavior. Then you can charge cityhall with your torch and pitchfork and won’t that be kewl? Really Lothor. Who IS the real jackass here?

        • Anonymous

          You’re the real jackass here.

          When the penalty for jaywalking is death, you don’t blame the jaywalker for their own execution. You blame the law.

          Well, that is unless you’re an authoritatian sociopath. Then you blame the jaywalker.

        • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

          Pretty sure this “Anon” guy is a Cardassian. They too assume anyone accused of a ‘crime’ is guilty until they’re convicted (regardless of innocence).

        • Lothor The Evil

          “You can contest it on your time and at your cost, but you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent”

          So you’re saying if someone accuses you of committing a crime, any crime, you are therefore automatically guilty based just on accusation alone? Well be that the case then I accuse you of raping and molesting children. Go ahead and prove your innocence. By your own fucking words you are hereby guilty of child abuse and therefore must prove your own innocence.
          Just because someone says someone did something does not prove a god damn thing jackass.

        • Herbert

          if i blow thro’ a speed trap and am taken to court, there has to be evidence that speeding took place, the car that was speeding belonged to me, i was driving or am able to prove that i was elsewhere. as far as the internet is concerned, the presumption of guilt is at the forefront based simply on an IP address that could have been spoofed/hacked. there is no way to tell who was actually using the Internet at the time of the alleged accusation made. as i am assumed guilty from the beginning, i have to then prove i did not commit the act. even if i can prove it was not me, the IP address is still taken as absolute proof of guilt and the internet is then cut off. this affects everyone in the household, not just me as the account holder.
          what would you say if your son was done for speeding in your car, yet you got the summons, the fine and the points on your license?
          the way to stop the majority of file sharing is to compete with it, not keep fighting a losing battle. give people what they want instead of what you say they want!
          basically you are the one that is wrong on all counts, not me!

        • http://twitter.com/uJonesing Utah Jones

          The solution you propose is horrible. In order for such a system to be inforced, all data from a user would have to be recorded 24/7. To use your own analogy, your solution is less of a speed trap and more akin to being tailgated 24/7/365 by a police officer. Invasion of privacy, much?

        • Anonymous

          agree… nor does he seem to comprehend the fact that all media content is just plain old information.
          It has NO physical properties and has no real value. It can be copied for near zero cost, billions even trillions of times….. if not infinitely .

          The problem with filesharing is with the business models of content creators.
          How on earth…. Can anyone think that it is a good idea to spend money creating a product that is ACTUALLY worthless , then selling it.(many do it)
          They need to get their income from another source , advertising , services ,events etc.
          There are successes with this… and businesses can flourish. (spotify .. to name one)

          NOW…to my point….
          OUR privacy and freedom is being attacked and is under threat ….. to protect business models that worked in the past.
          That’s the stupid reason to take away our freedom to share INFORMATION.

        • Anonymous

          agree… nor does he seem to comprehend the fact that all media content is just plain old information.
          It has NO physical properties and has no real value. It can be copied for near zero cost, billions even trillions of times….. if not infinitely .

          The problem with filesharing is with the business models of content creators.
          How on earth…. Can anyone think that it is a good idea to spend money creating a product that is ACTUALLY worthless , then selling it.(many do it)
          They need to get their income from another source , advertising , services ,events etc.
          There are successes with this… and businesses can flourish. (spotify .. to name one)

          NOW…to my point….
          OUR privacy and freedom is being attacked and is under threat ….. to protect business models that worked in the past.
          That’s the stupid reason to take away our freedom to share INFORMATION.

        • Anonymous

          “There are successes with this… and businesses can flourish. (spotify .. to name one)”

          Didn’t you hear the recent news? Spotify is failing. Hard.

        • Anony

          Actually the only reason spotify is struggling is because of the big studios greed, overcharging them for streaming rights and then failing to pass on the profits to artists.

          http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/why-spotify-on-mobile-is-doomed-to-failure-635500

          http://torrentfreak.com/spotify-income-is-microscopic-laughable-pathetic-110205/

        • Anonymous

          Really really captious statement.

          Spotify was just an example of a new advertised funded distribution platform.
          There are lots of existing models that have existed well before spotify.

          ok… Then… just to make sure you get my point…
          Without Nit-Picking… MINOR details … in an attempt to defame , disregard my comment.
          will go deeper…. I really shouldn’t have to ….it is blatantly obvious.

          (just a few)
          .Commercial radio.. (public broadcast) Advertised funded EVENT.
          .TV. (public broadcast) Advertised funded EVENT.
          .Cinema (public broadcast) Viewer funded EVENT.
          .Gig/clubs/pubs (public broadcast) user funded and/or Advertiser funded EVENT.
          .Library (public broadcast) Public/private funded

          NONE of “”models”" I have mentioned rely on directly selling INFORMATION.
          They sell public events.. or experiences….
          Experiences CANT be copied endlessly at near zero cost…. So they are not worthless…..
          ** even Spotify is an experience based site….. WHY ?…. It has a PUBLIC LIBRARY of music to browse , play and share.
          .

          Is that good enough for you ?
          Or are you going to try to descend another irrelevant path…

          eg… is “”nit-picking”" really a word..

          .

        • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

          Yes, it is a word.
          Monkeys etc do it as a sign of social acceptance where they assist each other to remove unwanted parasites (much like we do by removing the MAFIAA).

        • Anonymous

          And the 45 MILLION EUROS in licensing fees the copyright cartel demands from them doesn’t play any role in it. Sure.

        • Johnjohn

          if you get a ticket is because you were driving fast.
          but they only capture your image if you are too fast.

          they can’t do the same in a network. they would have to capture everything in order to punish pirates.

          in the end they would be even more illegal than pirates by doing that.

          we can compare this to hearing everyone’s phones to capture the BOMB word.
          and that’s VEEEERY ILLEGAL… although it has been done too…

        • Ctilluma

          Exactly. The only way it can be enforced is the capture and analysis of everything.

          In doing so, they are then downloading everything. Not just the intellectual property of recording artists or studios, but the intellectual property of every bit of internet communications, whether sound or video clip, or even proprietary conversations between officials, executives, and everybody else. The level of piracy of intellectual capital then goes through the roof.

          So people calling for ISP’s to capture and filter communications to protect their IP are asking them to violate everyone’s else IP in the process. Many people think it’s wrong to say in order to protect my rights, i’m going to ask that everyone else’s rights are thrown out the window.

          Quite obvious that many of the organizations and people calling for these measures haven’t even thought this through to the end of their sentence, let alone all the way through to what would actually occur.

        • Pwner101

          In the city that I live in without a doubt… I get 1 speeding ticket per year.
          I am by no means saying I do not speed… the fact of the discussion is…
          Whenever they seem to pull me over for speeding I am in fact not speeding.

          An example of this would be last summer at 3am I was going to work and was at a local convenience store… buying a soda. There was a police officer in the store talking to me for 5 minutes, as well as 2 employees. I left the parking lot… immediately after pulling out of the lot… I do mean immediately mind you… in the sense that my car was not even fully out of the lot I got pulled over by a cop for speeding.
          I told him I was not even on the road in the last 5 minutes that something wasn’t adding up. He insisted I was the correct car he caught speeding. He offered to show me the radar if I still doubted his judgement… Which I did… I asked him to show me the radar cause there was no way he caught me speeding. He went to the cruiser for a few minutes then came back to my car and told me the radar gun had reset itself… (BULL)
          He gave me a speeding ticket. Upon going to court to fight the ticket. I had the police officer (From the same city as the cop who pulled me over.) showup in court on my defense, as well as a surveillance video showing me in the store for roughly 5 minutes talking and then leaving and directly after you could see the cops lights drive by… this video was time stamped as well for verification of the time.

          Another police officers confession, the video tape, as well as me catching the cop who pulled me over in a flat out lie right in court did not get the fine dropped. I questioned the cop and got him to confess he was supposed to pull over a hunter green car which he repeated 6 times in court. I then mentioned that my car was gold and not even the same model car that he repeated 6 times is the one he caught speeding.

          When you get a speeding ticket you are guilty no matter what proof you provide.
          Saying you are innocent until proven guilty is not the case with traffic violations.
          I informed the judge flat out that I was pissed off… there were people who were in car accidents who had 5 children in their cars with all sorts of injuries to the kids cause they were not wearing seat belts… They were given fines for no seat belts and the judge dropped those fines but he would not drop my fine where I clearly had more than enough evidence to prove that I was innocent.

          If this is the way the current highway rules work… adding this same type of rule to the internet will be of no use… since the people regulating it, could issue citations and such just because they need to meet a monthly quota even on innocent people. (We have seen this happen time and time again with infringement notices already….)

        • Anony

          Either this little story is bullshit or you are a complete moron. That much evidence, a police witness and video footage, would get the fine dropped within seconds. Even if you had a corrupt judge there is always an appeal process.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah, because the sytem could never be THAT corrupt! La la la… I’m Anony, just living in a fantasy world… La la la…

          What would an appeal have even done if the deck is already stacked against you that badly?

        • Anony

          where exactly did i say there is no corruption? Does one policemans word against another policemans word plus two witnesses plus video footage sound like its stacked against him?

        • http://twitter.com/uJonesing Utah Jones

          And police would never open fire on a Haitian man for pulling out his wallet, or keep electrocuting a white man who was trying to comply with officer’s orders causing him to die, or beat a black man to death on the side of the road while being recorded by video, or shoot one of their own officers while he had possession of a suspect holding a… shoe, or raid the wrong house and open fire and wound a pregnant woman.

          Yes, the Police are stand-up people who never ever abuse their power, or get things wrong, or feel embarrassed and try to cover their mistakes up. Why, they’re almost as grandly upstanding citizens as politicians are!

        • Anony

          where exactly did i say the police are stand-up people who never abuse their power and never get things wrong?

        • Pwner101

          The story is 100% true.
          I would have appealed it but like is mentioned below the deck is stacked against you. The fine was for $120. To appeal it I would have had to have payed $50 for someone to transcribe the previous court hearing for the new judge, $140 to get a new court hearing and a few other gay ever so lame fees just to get the trial heard again… even in the event I won on the 2nd hearing… the fees I payed were almost double what that ticket itself costs. So adding up the ticket plus anything your insurance may go up by as a result of the ticket doesn’t cost as much as having them rehear your trial. They know this which is why they do not drop the ticket. What again really pisses me off is when they drop fines for not wearing seat belts when there were injuries to show they were not work… aka a kid getting thrown out a moving vehicle etc… and not drop mine.

        • Anony

          One policemans word against another policemans word plus two witnesses plus video footage is not stacked against you. If the story is not 100% fiction then you haven’t told the whole story and have missed out some details. If you was only concerned with the cash then why fight it in the first place, if it was just the principle of it then a few extra bucks to clear you name would hav been worth it.

        • Anony

          One policemans word against another policemans word plus two witnesses plus video footage is not stacked against you. If the story is not 100% fiction then you haven’t told the whole story and have missed out some details. If you was only concerned with the cash then why fight it in the first place, if it was just the principle of it then a few extra bucks to clear you name would hav been worth it.

        • Anony

          Either this little story is bullshit or you are a complete moron. That much evidence, a police witness and video footage, would get the fine dropped within seconds. Even if you had a corrupt judge there is always an appeal process.

        • Guest

          youre a dick

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Actually you are wrong on all counts. First of all, although the “driving on the road” comparison is popular it just isn’t a valid comparison to what goes on as regards the internet. When you are driving on a road you are operating a speeding vehicle the use of which in all civilized countries demands a great deal of education and a license. Much the same as with armaments it is proportional to monitor roads where every person actually has the potential to endanger the lives of numerous other people on the road.

          The mere exchange of information on the internet however is comparable to talking. Last time i checked most western countries require some form of court order before you are allowed to secretly monitor day-to-day conversations of people and in order to obtain that warrant the people to be investigated must already be under reasonable suspicion.

          Your entire argument is therefore irrelevant as it is based on severely flawed assumptions.

          What you are actually doing is trying to build a case for the DDR’s type of mass surveillance of personal communication and information control. Peddling sovjet-style censorship “for the good of society”.

          Finally you need to understand something – the “government” – who ever they may be – do not possess the power to “take away” anonymized or encrypted communication. They keep trying to do this in China and after ten years of trying and god alone knows how many billions worth of dollars the Great Firewall of China is and remains a standing joke for even the average filesharing script kid or dissident. As long as there is an internet at all, preventing unwanted communication is an unachievable goal. Egypt and Iran are the only nations ever to have succeeded in preventing the temporary “misuse” of the internet and then only because they were able to storm every ISP and simply pull the plug on the national level.

          Bsically your thinking is flawed from top to bottom. Either we have the internet and thus we have filesharing. Or we do not have the internet at all.

    • Lulz

      “no difference in what is legal or not”… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fail.

    • Aaa

      so basically then your ok with people spying on your internet connection

    • Anonymous

      Total freedom on the internet? Monitor?

      Does not compute.

      Also, your upside-down and backwards misbelief that filesharers are at fault for governments being a bunch of corrupt, tyranical thugs doing the bidding of corporate interests and everything would all get better if WE just started obeying THEIR unjust “laws” is still bullshit no matter what alias you post it under, Reasoned Mind.

      Everything else you write makes me laugh, but when you repeat this particular trash it never ceases to make me nauseous. Your logic is the logic that attackers use to blame their victims, full stop.

      Gee, it’s not the government’s fault for systematically dismantling our freedom… It’s the fault of internet filesharers. They’re the reason this is happening! They’re to blame for the government being composed of greedy, amoral sociopaths!

      Gee, it’s not my fault for raping that girl. It’s her fault for not consensually having sex with me. I’m not to bame for me raping her, she is! This wouldn’t have happened if she’d just put out!

      Gee, it’s not my fault for shooting that nigger. It’s his fault for trying to escape the plantation. I’m not to blame for me killing him, he is! This wouldn’t have happened if he’d just accepted being a slave!

      So how many times has that logic worked out in the end? I don’t think it’s been very many.

      Now here’s a newsflash for you: no government has the power to take away internet freedom, because on the internet, it’s the government that doesn’t have any freedom. Doesn’t matter what laws they pass, how much they try to monitor traffic, or even if they steal domains. Unlike in real life, they’ve got less power than a wet fart online. Put up a barrier, any barrier you can think of, and we’ll just tunnel around it instantly. The internet could survive a nuclear war, and these asshole politicians with their laws and bills think they’re hot shit? lol. Somebody didn’t get the memo.

      And in this whole mess, the saddest clowns of all are people like you. The ones who’d actually shill for these corporations who bribe politicians to undertake a Quixotic fight against the internet windmill. You are FAIL x LOSING to the power of infinity.

    • Anonymous

      Total freedom on the internet? Monitor?

      Does not compute.

      Also, your upside-down and backwards misbelief that filesharers are at fault for governments being a bunch of corrupt, tyranical thugs doing the bidding of corporate interests and everything would all get better if WE just started obeying THEIR unjust “laws” is still bullshit no matter what alias you post it under, Reasoned Mind.

      Everything else you write makes me laugh, but when you repeat this particular trash it never ceases to make me nauseous. Your logic is the logic that attackers use to blame their victims, full stop.

      Gee, it’s not the government’s fault for systematically dismantling our freedom… It’s the fault of internet filesharers. They’re the reason this is happening! They’re to blame for the government being composed of greedy, amoral sociopaths!

      Gee, it’s not my fault for raping that girl. It’s her fault for not consensually having sex with me. I’m not to bame for me raping her, she is! This wouldn’t have happened if she’d just put out!

      Gee, it’s not my fault for shooting that nigger. It’s his fault for trying to escape the plantation. I’m not to blame for me killing him, he is! This wouldn’t have happened if he’d just accepted being a slave!

      So how many times has that logic worked out in the end? I don’t think it’s been very many.

      Now here’s a newsflash for you: no government has the power to take away internet freedom, because on the internet, it’s the government that doesn’t have any freedom. Doesn’t matter what laws they pass, how much they try to monitor traffic, or even if they steal domains. Unlike in real life, they’ve got less power than a wet fart online. Put up a barrier, any barrier you can think of, and we’ll just tunnel around it instantly. The internet could survive a nuclear war, and these asshole politicians with their laws and bills think they’re hot shit? lol. Somebody didn’t get the memo.

      And in this whole mess, the saddest clowns of all are people like you. The ones who’d actually shill for these corporations who bribe politicians to undertake a Quixotic fight against the internet windmill. You are FAIL x LOSING to the power of infinity.

    • Whatever

      Traffic violations are punished for endangering lives (well, mostly). If you get caught and receive a ticket it is usually a relatively low amount. If someone does very dangerous things it might end up in taking away the drivers license. And lastly a policeman after writing a ticket is NOT going to follow you around until he is sure there are no more tickets to score.

      On the internet, in a desire to write the most tickets, after a ticket has been given, a “copywongman” could very likely assume you are going to P2P some more and start monitoring your traffic continiously.

      And how would the levels of a P2P “crime” compare to peoples lives at stake here ? Like 1cents for a track, 5cents for a movie, 10 cents for a game ?

    • me0w

      Oftentimes, they will try to sway your opinion by pretending to be of the same opinion, albeit….
      CUNT.
      50 cent parties can stay in fucking China

    • Anon334290

      faggot go kill yourself

    • Anon334290

      faggot go kill yourself

  • ddv

    encryption ftw

  • Anonymous

    Wow, I am floored. An elected official who uses his brain to actually consider the way legislation may or may not affect the rights and freedoms which he was elected to protect. I live in the U.S. and I am not familliar with this individual, but I would be honored to have him represent me. He is an upstanding man who takes his job with serious respect for the power and duties he has been entrusted with.

    • Anonymous

      Welcome to the EU which has better democracy and justice. The US has a fair justice system but the real problem is political abuse.

      It is just a shame that the US attacks the EU at the country level where it is weakest. The EU would be a lot harder to bully around.

    • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

      He’s a paid official, but not elected.
      His job is merely to preview the merits of the dispute and issue an advisory statement based on what info is available to him at the time.

      Unlike the USA, the EU doesn’t have publicly elected judges, advocates, etc.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    while the Audible Magic music fingerprinting system is easy to circumvent by downloading albums as archives and neither can it cope with non sequential p2p traffic it seems that it would be a waste of time anyway as the most common straight mp3 downloads are from legit sites so while it might identify the track to a degree of accuracy how can it determine if the music is licensed or not ?

  • Pingback: ISP Cannot Be Forced To Block Copyright Infringing Files

  • Him

    i wonder how long it will take for the UK to completely ignore this and carry on implementing the same blocks? i wonder what excuse they are going to use to allow them to ignore it? atm the government is waiting for a report from Ofcom as to whether this type of action is workable and worthwhile. the UK government seem to be dedicated to removing file sharing completely, using any method they can to do so. what is so worrying is the fact that they are still totally ignoring any and all independent reports that dismiss as ‘rubbish’ the losses touted by the entertainment industry, focusing and believing only the figures (£400million per year) stated by that industry. they still seem to have the idea that when file sharing is eradicated, everyone will then go flocking to the cinemas to watch a movie and/or to the shops to buy the disk. i find it unbelievable that people that are supposed to be so intelligent, act with such stupidity. forcing those industries to compete is a much better option than alienating everyone against those industries and the government. if the same item is available for free, 10p and £1, i am sure the majority would be prepared to pay 10p rather than £1 or even get it for free. at least then everyone wins something. sorry for trying to bring some sense to the problem!

    • Anon

      And there is ur problem

      Trying to bring some sense to the problem, when the people you are trying to fight against have NONE

  • http://profiles.google.com/ikrypt.jt john toma

    da gubbament iz gunna turn us all into haxx0rz

    • Needlez6

      Your speaking is horrible, and an insult to us people who can read and spell. I believe you wanted to say, “the government is going to turn us all into hackers. ” Please learn to speak and form complete sentences next time. Also just because a person is a hacker doesn’t mean they’re doing anything bad, there are different types of hackers out there, please make a more valid point cause right now, your point is invalid and my terminal is saying I need to beat you with the stupidity stick.

  • Dr_Faustus

    I dont see why they keep trying. Every time this has come up, especially when Sony took the reigns, its always been defeated in court. That or overturned on appeal.

    Logically, it makes no sense that an ISP would be responsible for 3rd party content not owned by them, merely accessed by a subscriber..What you and everyone else does with their tubes is your own business. I dont know what you do with your line and I dont want to know, and why would the ISP’s think any differently when you’re paying their salaries?

    But give them another 10 years to keep trying and maybe they’ll finally get the message. Remember, the wheels of justice turn very slow. Evolution takes time – even with all the lobbyists and money, eventually the system works.

    • Tidaltree

      >> [...] Evolution takes time – even with all the lobbyists and money, eventually the system works. <<

      Don't be so sure about that: Corruption is written by nature – Law is written by men.

      "Steter Tropfen höhlt den Stein."

  • Blazeflack

    Nice article. One paragraph is duplicated in the article almost word to word though:

    ” “By the same token, the deployment of such a system would restrict freedom of information, which is also protected by the Charter of Fundamental Rights.” ”

    and

    ” “By the same token,” adds Villalón, “the deployment of such a system would restrict freedom of information, which is also protected by the Charter of Fundamental Rights.” “

  • Anonymous

    Well this is good news. When is the verdict?

  • Anonymous

    Well this is good news. When is the verdict?

  • Anonomous

    I am wondering why do they find it so hard to shut down illegal sites? It would stop having to go down this route of blocking users so why cant any site be shut down that is proven illegal file sharing?

    If the likes of The Pirate Bay,Demonoid,KA Torrents etc were to close down then they wouldnt have to go down this route surely? Someone please explain as I am at a loss here?

    • Ven

      It’s fairly obvious that TPB is a site dedicated to illicit filesharing, but when it comes to law the process of proving such an accusation is long and difficult. At the same time, since we can’t just pass blanket laws against tracker sites in general, ten more pop up before TPBs court date even hits.

      People will always find a way to pirate if they want to. Governments hope that a 3-strikes system will educate these people to a point where they won’t pirate anymore. Attempting to fight the mechanisms by which pirating happens is pointless.

    • Ven

      It’s fairly obvious that TPB is a site dedicated to illicit filesharing, but when it comes to law the process of proving such an accusation is long and difficult. At the same time, since we can’t just pass blanket laws against tracker sites in general, ten more pop up before TPBs court date even hits.

      People will always find a way to pirate if they want to. Governments hope that a 3-strikes system will educate these people to a point where they won’t pirate anymore. Attempting to fight the mechanisms by which pirating happens is pointless.

    • SomeGuy

      Lets be clear, there’s no way for them to stop piracy without destroying the internet as we know it. Shut down sites, others spring up in their place. Shut down entire P2P systems, there’s already others waiting to replace them. Force ISP’s to inspect traffic, all traffic will simply be encrypted. It’s an arms race they simply can’t win.

      I think by now they know this, and for the last while they’ve just been using piracy as an excuse to wrestle more control over the internet for themselves. Trust me, they would LOVE to turn the internet into the next cable-TV, with monthly fees for packages of websites and only ‘authorized’ traffic allowed. And if we’re not careful they’ll get it, one small step at a time.

      One seemingly stupid law here, a seemingly useless one there, it all adds up to some measure of control. Bit by bit, they’re in this for the long haul. They know exactly what’s at stake here, their entire business model rests on controlling distribution, and that’s exactly what the internet makes obsolete.

      The threat here isn’t to piracy, it’ll always find a way to survive. The threat is to the internet itself. I’m not trying to sound grandiose when I say one day we’ll be telling our grand kids how great, open and free the internet USED to be. That’s where we’re headed, and the vast majority of people don’t know and don’t care.

      • Anon

        “Trust me, they would LOVE to turn the internet into the next cable-TV, with monthly fees for packages of websites and only ‘authorized’ traffic allowed. And if we’re not careful they’ll get it, one small step at a time. ”

        Bingo, and the arms-race pirate mentality is handing it over on a silver platter. Nicely said, SomeGuy.

        The big question isn’t what government will do. They are making that very clear what they will do, they are doing it and everyone here knows perfectly well the “people” will take it and shut up about it. The truly bigger question is whether the pirate mentality can mature in time and embrace society at large in the digital space as they are forced to in the material one. If not, SomeGuy has the internet 10 years from now dead on pegged: cable TV with authorized traffic, a huge loss for humankind. And we’ll have the pirate mentality to thank for it. And everyone is beginning to see that, too.

        • Herbert

          what we’ll have to thank for it is nothing other than ‘corporate greed’. that is the biggest destroyer of all. it always has been and always will be. the ordinary people cant compete with it other than in numbers protesting. as usual though, money always wins, even when it fucks itself up!

        • Anonymous

          Lol, it is not piracy at all that is to blame. Piracy is the excuse they use, they are to blame. And the fact that you write this down in a different way is not because you don’t know this is how it works. But because of your own narrow minded vendetta against piracy. And i would love to know where that came from, what they ever did to you. Because you can change your nickname but i still know who you are. And nobody wants to pirate you.

        • Anonymous

          You’re such a dishonest asshole.

          The point of SomeGuy’s comment, which I’ll now recap for you because you obviously didn’t read it except for part of one paragraph, is threefold.

          1. Filesharing will never be stopped. Ever.
          2. The content industry realized this awhile ago.
          3. The content industry is now using filesharing as nothing more than a hollow excuse for grabbing power over the internet for itself, one little bit at a time. It’s doing this because the internet has obsoleted its business model of controlling distribution, therefore the internet must be controlled.

          You, of course, ignored all of that and made up your own shit. The filesharer mentality isn’t handing anything to anybody on a silver platter because, like SomeGuy said, filesharing is only an excuse. If every single filesharer in the world stopped filesharing tomorrow, the content industry would just pull a different excuse out of its ass and keep grabbing power as if nothing had happened.

          The content industry are the badguys in SomeGuy’s comment, but you’re trying to twist it into backing up your insane “oppression is the fault of the oppressed” bullshit by selectively reading it and ignoring most of what he wrote. Yeah, you sure are a class act. Where’d I put my sarcastic golf clap? Oh here it is.

          *sarcastic golf clap”

          “The big question isn’t what government will do. They are making that very clear what they will do,”

          Fail repeatedly, yes.

        • SomeGuy

          It kind of touches on one of the points I was trying to make though, that we need to STOP looking at all this anti-piracy stuff with a “oh well they can’t stop us so who cares what they do” attitude, because that’s exactly what they’re counting on.

          None of these laws threaten file sharing in any real way, so instead of fighting them we dismiss them, and feel like pretty badass motherfuckers doing it. Jokes on us though, because while we’re celebrating the fact that file sharing lives on they’re carving out pieces of the internet for themselves.

          So yes, it IS a big deal when some retarded three strikes law gets passed. It IS a big deal when the Department of Homeland fucking Security is taking down websites on the basis of copyright infringement. It IS a big deal when record labels are allowed to strong arm ISPs into doing their dirty work for them. It IS a big deal when record labels are allowed to gut streaming radio simply because they can’t compete with it.

          All of these things endanger the internet itself, and that’s going to have repercussions WAY beyond file sharing. That’s the real war here, and I hate to break it to you, but we’re losing.

        • Anon

          Thanks, SomeGuy. The folks here who think the internet is theirs to use as they wish are fundamentally wrong and living in a “they can’t stop us” illusion, and you’ve summed that up nicely there. The government hasn’t even gotten started yet, and you are one of the few to actually see that. The internet was created by military/government, is administered to by government and is sold to us by the same corporations we are ripping off. Pirates can agree to disagree and just wait and see how long this “they can’t stop us” mentality actually lasts. And in the meantime we can enjoy the Jammie and Joel chronicles. :-)

        • Anonymous

          Nice job failing to read what SomeGuy actually wrote and making up your own shit yet again, asshole.

          He’s saying the “they can’t stop us” mentality ISN’T an illusion. He’s saying we WON’T EVER BE STOPPED. He’s saying FILESHARING WILL ALWAYS SURVIVE no matter how the copyright industry or government tries to kill it, because killing it is impossible. He’s saying the COPYRIGHT INDUSTRY is the blame for its own actions, not filesharers.

          He’s saying the industry wants to own the internet and monetize it to the maximum possible extent, wants to Cable TV it. That while this DOES NOT REALLY THREATEN FILESHARING, it does threaten to fuck up the internet real bad. That filesharing is not to blame for this, it’s only being used as an excuse. Because it doesn’t threaten filesharing, because we can safely ignore it in that context, he’s saying we’re letting this happen right under our noses. It’s the real war and we’re losing it through inaction. It’s not the filesharing war we’re losing. We’ve already won that. Filesharing isn’t in danger. It’s another, different war we’re losing.

          Pretty much everything he’s saying disagrees with you, but you’re pretending it all totally agrees with you. To quote South Park, that’s pretty fucked up right there.

          Is this a new trick you picked up from the industry troll handbook, Mr. Reasoned-Mind-Unsuccessfully-Hiding-Behind-Another-Alias?

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Honestly, no…You keep on failing. China can’t stop it’s own dissidents and filesharers – despite fervent efforts and an enormous budget. The Great Firewall is a joke. Even the most totalitarian dictatorships with cash and tech on their hands have failed – miserably – to stop people from communicating completely at will.

          Iran and Egypt did the one thing they could in order to stop the bad bad internet. By storming the ISP’s and pulling the plug completely.

          The choice is either no internet at all – which would break any nation with active industry today. Or to have internet in which case – surprise – you get people communicating that which you don’t want communicated.

          DO YOU THINK…that if Wikileaks could have been stopped, by any means at all, that it would still exist? And yet it does. On 1500 mirrored sites at last counts.

          I’m very sure “governments” will keep trying to control the internet for some time but the main battles have already come and gone. The cost is simply too high. There is no government in the world which can justify to it’s electorate why they need to spend more money on enforcing communications restrictions than what they spend on health care, education, or in most cases, the military. But that’s what it would take.

          So, with all due respect…you are talking out of your ass and need to learn some hard facts before you put your tinfoil hat back on.

        • Anonymous

          What are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to fight these laws? Dismissing them like we’re badass motherfuckers is pretty much the only option on the table.

          Do we vote out the corrupt politicians? How does that work when everybody on the ballot is a corrupt politician?

          Do we vote the Pirate Party in to a majority of the government? That’s a long time coming when most voters, even if they value liberty and privacy, see them as a one-trick pony. “Sure that one issue they stand for is great, but what about foreign relations? Schools? Infrastructure? Agriculture? I can’t vote for a party that only has a stance on the internet…”

          Do we ban lobbying? How would we do that? The politicians sure wouldn’t stand for it. How would we bypass them? How would we enforce it?

          Do we protest in the streets? “Civilized” Western democracies have learned they can now just arrest the protesters, ignore their cause, and all will be fine. Try it elsewhere and… Well, the same thing will happen except you might also get killed. Not specifically because you support filesharing but because that’s just what they generally do with street protesters.

          What does that leave us with?

          I think the best we can do is keep dismissing(and circumventing) copyright laws and, while we’re at it, keep educating people about filesharing. Keep educating them about the copyright industry. Keep educating them about the corrupt nature of politicians and the government. All in the hopes that one day enough people will be educated that they’ll elect enough members of their local Pirate Party to make an actual difference.

          Because… I honestly can’t think of anything else that we could do that’d ultimately accomplish anything.

          Any suggestions? And keep in mind we live in a day and age where Gandhi would be branded a domestic terrorist and Jesus Christ tortured in Gitmo. Not exactly a conductive environment for enacting a vast, government-reforming civil revolution in order to protect the internet. And non-civil? Fuck. That’s even more DOA.

          Seriosuly, what can we do that we aren’t already?

        • Anon

          “Seriosuly, what can we do that we aren’t already?”

          Glad you asked. It’s not the politicians you need, screw them, they are worried about sales because they need the sales tax. And circumventing copyright law is just dumb. Not only do you brand yourself a lawbreaker in the eyes of the general public, you do that in the eyes of the content creators as well. And you need the content creators.

          Forget the old catalogs of music and movies and books and games, they legally belong to the cartels and you have to just give them up, literally pay for the products you copy or do without them. Any other response and you give the cartels the legal right to hunt you and punish you, the silver platter I referred to earlier, and your unlawful behavior becomes the reason why we are losing our freedom online.

          Instead, 1) convince the next generation of content creators it is in their best interest to release their work and to trust you to pay them. 2) Pay them in scale to the number of copies that are UL’d and DL’d, Big Champagne keeps track of stuff like that, and this is key….pay them at least as much in a reliable way as they’d typically get from the cartels.

          You don’t NEED the cartels, You NEED the artists and creators, so if you want them to follow you in, you have to give them the same financial incentive or more and you have to do it reliably and predictably and you have to do it now and forevermore until every artist going forward learns to trust that you will pay and every industry is financially and legally strangled to death. Because if you don’t? The creators will just return to the cartels where they get the better deal and lobby for stricter controls and harsher punishments and you’ll be right back where you started. Don’t expect a game developer or a recording artist or a book author or movie maker to work for less for you, if they can net more income working for the entrenched industries, that’s simple human nature and they are trying to earn a living just like you are.

          Start here, read this study released yesterday:

          http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/326505-Online-piracy-artist-study-Summary

          This suggests even the majority of younger content creators don’t trust you and that rings true because if they did, we’d be showered with cool product outside the industries and in fact, it’s actually the rare product and not the norm. Not yet. When pirates put their money where their mouth is the industries will die and pirates will reign. But if pirates expect people to work in the creative fields for less, often significantly less because you just won’t pay, then you are kidding yourself. By your own refusal to pay you make the cartels the better deal and you keep them alive. Put your money up or shut up.

          But then again, human nature has always been that way.

    • Ctilluma

      They find it hard to shut down those sites because they aren’t illegal sites. Perhaps their activities may be illegal in some countries, but there are other countries that don’t find anything illegal about posting text files that help users coordinate their activities. The sites aren’t housing any copy-written data so some people feel that there is nothing illegal that they are doing. As long as site owners set up their hosting in countries where they aren’t violating any laws, then other nations aren’t legally allowed to tell another country to prosecute somebody just because they violated the law in the 3rd party country. This is actually a good thing – I surely don’t want countries in the middle east trying to punish my wife for driving in a vehicle with her face uncovered.

      So there are only a few real options. We pass international laws regarding the internet and how it applies to intellectual rights then somehow get every nation in the world to make the appropriate treaties and / or laws to bring that into account. Considering how hard it is to get global concurrence on any issue, I don’t see this as being too possible.

      Option 2 is to create firewall’s at the national level á la China to enforce national laws. Considering how much flack is given to China for this policy, it may be difficult to implement. Seeing as how the american government was ready to take down Assange, his website, and every site that enabled the operation thereof, then perhaps we are ready for that level of a police state. Then we’ll just see brain drain at the national level as most people who actually possess the full faculty of their mind aren’t going to agree with living under a police state.

      Option 3 is companies decide to actually come to the table in an effort to truly solve the problem instead of profitting from the problem. They charge an actual reasonable price for their content that works for people in all nations and not just a few limited nations whose pay earning may be much higher than the global median. It’s one thing to think 80 cents isn’t enough for a song in the United States or Europe. It’s vastly different to think that what amounts to an eighth of some families entire weekly income for many nations is a reasonable price for them. Application providers for iPhone or Android OS’s have found they can actually make more money by charging less because of a greater base able to acquire their product. Unfortunately I don’t think most content organizations understand those basic supply and demand economics and are either still operating from a mindset 30 years old or they think they have the right to force people to buy product that nobody is willing to pay for, or a combination of the two. The latter argument worked well for american car manufacturers who essentially forced Americans to buy their cars (through tax dollars and bail outs) because they didn’t produce quality enough products to elicit global demand. The saddest part from a consumer perspective is they chose to not buy the product, then their money went to it anyway and this time they didn’t even get an auto for their money.

      Canada has found a functional method whereby blank media has an additional fee that is then dispersed to content owners with the understanding that since that blank media will be used to copy songs then the artists should get some of that back. A functional medium whereby everyone benefits. Not quite free as some consumers would like, not prohibitively large pricing like industry would like, but a compromise where everybody gets a little something. This is probably the best alternative (and could easily be applied to internet connections and a small fee that is paid based on bandwidth), but the content industry has been so used to pushing everyone around to get their way that I seriously doubt they would be willing to compromise on anything. They’ll just keep charging more as their content continues to lose value. Eventually with a fully connected world, artists and original content creators will be able to get money directly from consumers who like and wish to enjoy that content. The middle man, the audio and video publishers, will eventually fade out as they’re no longer needed. It’s taking place already and they’re just spending billions in courtrooms and lobbyists to try and stay in a game that already ended for most of them.

      • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

        Re Option 2 Ct, the USA State Dept already finances the breaching of National firewalls such as those in China, Australia, Myannmar, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. It’s called Freegate.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freegate

        All in the name of freedom of course, whilst their US colleagues in the Dept of Homeland Security/ICE are seizing domains and actively limiting freedom of privacy, of information exchange etc lol.

      • Ven

        “They charge an actual reasonable price for their content that works for people in all nations and not just a few limited nations whose pay earning may be much higher than the global median.”

        I don’t see how the burden falls to the entrepreneur to make sure the world can afford the luxuries they are selling. These are not products of utility but of entertainment, and the companies that choose to sell them at unaffordable prices should be going out of business. Freely distributed works have quite a presence, there is no need to pretend like labels and studios hold the world hostage. This is the basics of supply and demand.

        If we are dealing with monopolies then we don’t need to attack the price point, we need to deal with their monopoly.

    • Ctilluma

      They find it hard to shut down those sites because they aren’t illegal sites. Perhaps their activities may be illegal in some countries, but there are other countries that don’t find anything illegal about posting text files that help users coordinate their activities. The sites aren’t housing any copy-written data so some people feel that there is nothing illegal that they are doing. As long as site owners set up their hosting in countries where they aren’t violating any laws, then other nations aren’t legally allowed to tell another country to prosecute somebody just because they violated the law in the 3rd party country. This is actually a good thing – I surely don’t want countries in the middle east trying to punish my wife for driving in a vehicle with her face uncovered.

      So there are only a few real options. We pass international laws regarding the internet and how it applies to intellectual rights then somehow get every nation in the world to make the appropriate treaties and / or laws to bring that into account. Considering how hard it is to get global concurrence on any issue, I don’t see this as being too possible.

      Option 2 is to create firewall’s at the national level á la China to enforce national laws. Considering how much flack is given to China for this policy, it may be difficult to implement. Seeing as how the american government was ready to take down Assange, his website, and every site that enabled the operation thereof, then perhaps we are ready for that level of a police state. Then we’ll just see brain drain at the national level as most people who actually possess the full faculty of their mind aren’t going to agree with living under a police state.

      Option 3 is companies decide to actually come to the table in an effort to truly solve the problem instead of profitting from the problem. They charge an actual reasonable price for their content that works for people in all nations and not just a few limited nations whose pay earning may be much higher than the global median. It’s one thing to think 80 cents isn’t enough for a song in the United States or Europe. It’s vastly different to think that what amounts to an eighth of some families entire weekly income for many nations is a reasonable price for them. Application providers for iPhone or Android OS’s have found they can actually make more money by charging less because of a greater base able to acquire their product. Unfortunately I don’t think most content organizations understand those basic supply and demand economics and are either still operating from a mindset 30 years old or they think they have the right to force people to buy product that nobody is willing to pay for, or a combination of the two. The latter argument worked well for american car manufacturers who essentially forced Americans to buy their cars (through tax dollars and bail outs) because they didn’t produce quality enough products to elicit global demand. The saddest part from a consumer perspective is they chose to not buy the product, then their money went to it anyway and this time they didn’t even get an auto for their money.

      Canada has found a functional method whereby blank media has an additional fee that is then dispersed to content owners with the understanding that since that blank media will be used to copy songs then the artists should get some of that back. A functional medium whereby everyone benefits. Not quite free as some consumers would like, not prohibitively large pricing like industry would like, but a compromise where everybody gets a little something. This is probably the best alternative (and could easily be applied to internet connections and a small fee that is paid based on bandwidth), but the content industry has been so used to pushing everyone around to get their way that I seriously doubt they would be willing to compromise on anything. They’ll just keep charging more as their content continues to lose value. Eventually with a fully connected world, artists and original content creators will be able to get money directly from consumers who like and wish to enjoy that content. The middle man, the audio and video publishers, will eventually fade out as they’re no longer needed. It’s taking place already and they’re just spending billions in courtrooms and lobbyists to try and stay in a game that already ended for most of them.

  • Anonymous

    Why dont they just stop bugging this issue and let it be. Disputes about file-sharing has been running for years now and they’re just wasting money to stop it.

    We help Americans find jobs and prosperity in Asia.
    Visit http://www.pathtoasia.com/jobs2/ for details.

  • Z X

    Looking forward to this being implemented, I’ve always wanted an encrypted anonymous p2p app running on port 80….

  • Dj fm

    tell comcast this those bastards sent me a DMCA letter lol

  • Dj fm

    tell comcast this those bastards sent me a DMCA letter lol

  • Pingback: P2PTalk » ISP Cannot Be Forced To Block Copyright Infringing Files

  • Glib

    Italy is part of the EU, so does blocking the pirate bay mean they’re breaking the Charter of Fundamental Rights? I live in Canada, and I am pretty thin on the details of how the EU works legally, but it seems like this Charter should apply to all ISPs within the EU.

    • SomeGuy

      No, cause this case is about blocking files based on packet inspection. It’s the packet inspection part that violates privacy rights, because it forces ISP’s to snoop on all the data being sent to and from your computer to look for evidence of piracy.

      Blocking a website has nothing to do with privacy rights, or any other rights outlined in the EU charter.

  • Glowerous

    Governments and business have always worked in tandem.
    We need to remember that, despite being elected by the people, governments are basically parasitic in nature. Unless they extract money from the electorate they cease to wield control. Without it they have no power to maintain order.

    It seems an obvious conclusion that any business that pays out megabucks in tax is infinately more worthy of protection than a group of self serving individuals like us file swappers.

    Earlier (above) ANoiXioNA made the point that what the content providers actually produce is worthless. A digital file has no real worth whatsoever…copied a thousand times, each copy is equally worthless (and in a practical sense, useless). This could be said for any product under the sun except for food, clean water and tools. I accept this comment to a degree…at some point in a society, however, we need to conceed to the concept of ‘value’.

    Businessess that claim to lose revenue as a result of unpreventable loss should, in my opinion, be thrown to the lions and left to die naturally. If you can’t protect your own product, stop making products that you can’t protect. Stop running around like children shouting for daddy to protect you. Unfortunately, these particular businesses make products that have great value in a commercial world….especially when it comes to tax revenue. Hence, government intervention.

    My point is this, money will always count as more valuable a commodity than free.
    Money will always be valued higher than personal liberty (see Tax Law and punishments for none payment of).
    Money will, eventually, sway the governments to protect its host.

    If the law of today says it is unfair to penalise ISP’s and their subscribers…and it costs it (tax) money….then the government will change the law to suit itself.

    There is nothing more corrupt, or corruptable, than government.
    Expect it sooner rather than later.

    • Anon

      This sounds like Miss Marple’s 3rd Grade anarchy school. What a yawn.

      • B Plite

        Over your head then?

        • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

          AAAaaaaahahahahahahahahahah
          and,
          lol too ffs

          Brilliant riposte heheh.

  • BoSNiaN

    Wow..this just goes to show how lucky people are to live in Europe…they are LIGHT YEARS ahead of North America. I wish I could move back :(

    • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

      You’re quite right! The USA is now holding people back due to their stupid and narrow-minded protectionism of these failing business models who’ve raped us stupid over the past few decades.

      They need a dose of reality, and hopefully the EU and its Courts will provide such direction.

      The USA has lost the plot.

    • Tidaltree

      Don’t worry. Politicians all over Europe are working to correct this. They are just a few years behind to reach the new american standard…

  • Lothor The Evil

    Take me down to copyright city where the CEOs are rich and they got man titties.

    Finally some sense in the copyright debate. I wonder how long it will last until the industry lobbyists convince them to change their minds.

  • 1neb
    • Anonymous

      Lol, we just made some powerful friends…

    • Ven

      When it comes to knowing the age of those participating, the burden of proof falls to those hosting the gambling. Since there is no way of being certain over the internet, most forms of gambling are not allowed in the United States. And realize they weren’t just letting people gamble, but they were knowingly bribing banks to process the illegal betting anyway.

      That isn’t like a 12-year-old getting arrested for sharing Blue’s Clues with some friends online, that is like some dude cranking out DVD in a child-molesting sweatshop to be sold as original retail copies.

  • Kiep

    …all those long posts are paid by US Government.

    • AnonBuddhist

      Couldn’t have said it better. funny as hell. :)

    • Wut

      Not all.

      Some are written by people who can think, who can see a bigger picture other than the ‘herp derp its da meeja cumpnees faults iz a piraet’ mentality, and who hold more than one idea in their head at a time

      Read and learn.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, not at all. The long posts in support of filesharing aren’t paid for.

        The long posts AGAINST filesharing, on the other hand…

    • Marcus

      What’s even funnier is they’re all upvoting each other.

    • Marcus

      What’s even funnier is they’re all upvoting each other.

  • http://toby7728.myopenid.com/ TT7228

    Does this mean that the British government wont be able to force ISPs to block copyright infringing sites?

    • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Not yet as it’s only an advisory statement :(
      But if it becomes a decision of the Court, then YES – that’s exactly what it would mean.

      So here’s hoping …

      • Whatever

        Unless they change the law !

        Which is mentioned in one but not unimportant sentence of what was said/written by the “advisor….”.

  • http://disqus.com/ Rob8urcakes

    btw, here’s a prosecutors propaganda press release in pdf via msn

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/scheinbergetalindictmentpr.pdf

  • Whatever

    @filter
    Any filter would have a great impact on any remixes of different songs. Those would be blocked after a few seconds by recognition of the beginning (There wouldn’t be much use for the filter if it didn’t block it before the file finished).

    A lot of false positives to benefit one industry (which shouldn’t be an industry at all).

    Even virusscanners won’t destroy “false positives” without permission.

  • Yt

    support each other not the system

  • Anon

    Does this mean Eircom has to stop unblocking piratebay?

  • Levelstar

    Scarlet FTW

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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