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Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

A landmark ruling in one of the many mass-BitTorrent lawsuits in the US has delivered a severe blow to a thus far lucrative business. Among other things, New York Judge Gary Brown explains in great detail why an IP-address is not sufficient evidence to identify copyright infringers. According to the Judge this lack of specific evidence means that many alleged BitTorrent pirates have been wrongfully accused by copyright holders.

ip-addressMass-BitTorrent lawsuits have been dragging on for more than two years in the US, involving more than a quarter million alleged downloaders.

The copyright holders who start these cases generally provide nothing more than an IP-address as evidence. They then ask the courts to grant a subpoena, allowing them to ask Internet providers for the personal details of the alleged offenders.

The problem, however, is that the person listed as the account holder is often not the person who downloaded the infringing material. Or put differently; an IP-address is not a person.

Previous judges who handled BitTorrent cases have made observations along these lines, but none have been as detailed as New York Magistrate Judge Gary Brown was in a recent order.

In his recommendation order the Judge labels mass-BitTorrent lawsuits a “waste of judicial resources.” For a variety of reasons he recommends other judges to reject similar cases in the future.

One of the arguments discussed in detail is the copyright holders’ claim that IP-addresses can identify the alleged infringers. According to Judge Brown this claim is very weak.

“The assumption that the person who pays for Internet access at a given location is the same individual who allegedly downloaded a single sexually explicit film is tenuous, and one that has grown more so over time,” he writes.

“An IP address provides only the location at which one of any number of computer devices may be deployed, much like a telephone number can be used for any number of telephones.”

“Thus, it is no more likely that the subscriber to an IP address carried out a particular computer function – here the purported illegal downloading of a single pornographic film – than to say an individual who pays the telephone bill made a specific telephone call.”

The Judge continues by arguing that having an IP-address as evidence is even weaker than a telephone number, as the majority of US homes have a wireless network nowadays. This means that many people, including complete strangers if one has an open network, can use the same IP-address simultaneously.

“While a decade ago, home wireless networks were nearly non-existent, 61% of US homes now have wireless access. As a result, a single IP address usually supports multiple computer devices – which unlike traditional telephones can be operated simultaneously by different individuals,” Judge Brown writes.

“Different family members, or even visitors, could have performed the alleged downloads. Unless the wireless router has been appropriately secured (and in some cases, even if it has been secured), neighbors or passersby could access the Internet using the IP address assigned to a particular subscriber and download the plaintiff’s film.”

Judge Brown explains that the widespread use of wireless networks makes a significant difference in cases against file-sharers. He refers to an old RIAA case of nearly a decade ago where the alleged infringer was located at a University, on a wired connection offering hundreds to tracks in a shared folder. The Judge points out that nowadays it is much harder to pinpoint specific infringers.

Brown also cites various other judges who’ve made comments on the IP-address issue. In SBO Pictures, Inc. v. Does 1-3036 for example, the court noted:

“By defining Doe Defendants as ISP subscribers who were assigned certain IP addresses, instead of the actual Internet users who allegedly engaged in infringing activity, Plaintiff’s sought-after discovery has the potential to draw numerous innocent internet users into the litigation, placing a burden upon them that weighs against allowing the discovery as designed.”

Judge Brown concludes that in these and other mass-BitTorrent lawsuits it is simply unknown whether the person linked to the IP-address has anything to do with the alleged copyright infringements.

“Although the complaints state that IP addresses are assigned to ‘devices’ and thus by discovering the individual associated with that IP address will reveal ‘defendants’ true identity,’ this is unlikely to be the case,” he concludes.

In other words, the copyright holders in these cases have wrongfully accused dozens, hundreds, and sometimes thousands of people.

Aside from effectively shutting down all mass-BitTorrent lawsuits in the Eastern District of New York, the order is a great reference for other judges dealing with similar cases. Suing BitTorrent users is fine, especially one at a time, but with proper evidence and not by abusing and misleading the courts.

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  • Djdjsj

    First…

  • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

    If this isn’t a trolling article, it’s past fucking time that a judge said this. As a person who has a lot of experience with computers, I knew from day one that with wireless networks, easily tapped wired networks, etc. that an IP address is not equal to a specific person nor a specific computer.

    It’s great that a judge finally realized that fact and has ‘put the hammer down’.

    • Anonymous

      They’ll just take it to the Supreme Court (which consists of complete morons).

      • Anyone

        not morons, just conservatives
        it’s malice rather than stupidity

        • Luckyd2039

           It’s better to keep your mouth shut and thought to be stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt.

          These are the worlds you should live by – you are a freaking MORON!

        • Duh dee duh?

           It’s both, the best of both “worlds”. Now take a good long swig of your own medicine. :p

        • Shita-Tapeworm

          Yes, US conservatives are total clown dicks.

        • Dooflodger

          That’s strange; I’m a conservative and I think the government should get its damn hands off the reigns of the internet, that companies should stop wasting so many resources on DRM that will never work, frivolous lawsuits and high-paid lawyers and instead improve their products and product models in order to regain customers.
          My point is: labels suck, moron.

        • http://twitter.com/cmbrannen Brannen

          Yeah… because its not the big government liberals who want to control you and your internet access… right… Conservatives are your only hope of a free and open internet ya putz.

        • Guest

          @twitter-170050532:disqus 

          The big government CISPA act is overwhelmingly supported by Republicans. Please take your “Conservatives stand for small government and personal freedom!” fantasy and shove it up your ass sideways. Thanks.

          And when you’re done with that, you can remember which administration the PATRIOT act, wiretapping, “acceptable” torture, and Gitmo came into being under. 

          Republicans stand for big government and the repeal of personal freedom every bit as much as the Democrats do. Stop buying into political theatrics and look at the actual fucking record. 

          http://techland.time DOT com/2012/04/27/cispa-house-vote-sets-up-senate-cybersecurity-showdown/
          (replace DOT with .)

        • Chub

          “Republicans stand for big government and the repeal of personal freedom
          every bit as much as the Democrats do. Stop buying into political
          theatrics and look at the actual fucking record. ”

          You say that after you bash republicans. I smell a closet democrat…

          When we say “conservatives,” we are referring to the growing libertarian movement which promotes individual freedoms. So in essence, the new (or perhaps old) conservative thought triumphs over the liberal democrat and republican rhetoric.

          True conservatives (not the majority of idiot republicans currently in office) DO believe in protecting your rights. Liberals want to exploit them and pay off people with the hard earned money you’ve made. Do you understand now?

        • Anonymous

          There’s a vast chasm of difference between a conservative and a Republican. The Supreme Court is mostly Republicans (5 of the 9 of them). There isn’t a single conservative there.

        • FUCK

          You seriously think a bunch of old fucking people know how the internet works? REALLY?? Is that why you think conservatives are “morons that desire to hurt everybody else”?

          Do I even need to call you a “fucking idiot”?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/TMYBYT4YBIPDPVMAAZIKUA277Q Tasha

           guyss , Are you tired of not knowing what your employees, children,
          spouse are up to? This Application might be the best solution .easy to
          use and  100% UNDETECTABLE with so many  features (Call Tracking,GPS
          Location Tracking,SMS Tracking….) and other amazing features.

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        • http://twitter.com/Thefoulfellow Douglas Hinebaugh

          This is ignorant as hell. I am a Conservative and I vehemently oppose any Internet policing bills that don’t afford rights and protection to all users. You all can blame these bills on the Republicans all you want and by some of the voting tallies the Republicans are voting in larger numbers for these bills. They are wrong. But before you stick your foot in your loudass Liberal mouths, wait and see if your beloved President Superstar vetoes it. He won’t. And then who will be your badguy? Knowing the broken-record rhetoric so synonymous with Liberals, it will somehow be Bush’s fault.

        • 99% are coming

          OK REPUBLICANS

          I call bullshit !

          You as a group have LOTS of genuine reasons to attack Obama.
          DO YOU….NO ( you attack him over STUPID reasons )

          You (the group) DON’T CARE if you could win the election
          All you need to do is….
          run to get the money out of politics.
          run to stop the NDAA.
          run to stop the pointless wars.
          run to stop big government regulating PEOPLE on BEHALF of CORPORATE INTERESTS.

          OH… but big government is OK for corporations regulating PEOPLE.

          But people regulating corporations….for the good of the people… You hate that.
          Hate taxing them , hate any “pro-people” regulations on them.

          OK DEMOCRATS

          Everything I said about the republicans applies… Except that…
          YOU STILL believe the utter bullshit Obama says he will do.

          Did he pass healthcare ? … NO…
          he passed a bill written by the insurance industry
          Did he end the pointless wars ? ….NO…
          He expanded the budget for such … including CORPORATE military/security.

          Point is….

                                    BOTH SIDES ARE CORRUPT

        • UsPatriot

           Let’s stop this stupid bickering about conservatives VS liberal BS.

          Our nation is in danger because of corporations such as banks, entertainment, weapons, oil companies controlling our government trampling our constitution and destroying our republic for profit. Let’s deal with this emergency and take back control of our government.  At least as US citizen we should agree on this. Once the fire is out we can resume our disagreement.

          PLEASE!!!!

        • Shita-Tapeworm

          I’m calling bullshit on CONs !!!

          All cons do is tell everybody what they can’t do.

          #1. Can’t drink alcohol in certain counties.
          #2. Can’t fuck ‘whatever’ in your own home.
          #3. Can’t marry certain people.
          #4. Can’t have equal rights if you’re a certain color or gay.
          #5. Woman’s body is government managed property.
          #6. Can’t read Mark Twain’s books because they are too liberal.
          #7. Can’t smoke a joint “war of drugs started with CONs”.
          #8. Can’t be a Atheist.
          #9. Can’t, can’t, can’t and more can’t with a side of can’t.

          Who enforces all those can’ts? GOVERNMENT.

        • harry krishna

          the hollywood element of the democratic party makes it difficult to cast this as a democratic or republican issue

        • Jambala99

          No, it’s stupidity……

        • Anonymous

          Actually…most “pirates” are conservatives.

          Which is why most pirates tend to quote heavily from Thomas Jeffersson and Benjamin Franklin. We’re old school. It’s just that we’re stodgy old hosers who actually know the tech and know the issues involved.

          Generally speaking the crackdown on the internet does not come from conservatism but from “progressives” who fail to realize they’ve reinvented “information control” as it’s been attempted in practice oh so many times throughout history.

        • Buddy

           Wow.  So much text, so little knowledge.

          https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash

          There is your conservative.  Anti PIPA, CISPA, SOPA, NDAA.  Anti-religious right, anti-bullshit wars, and anti-Fed bullshit.

          The guy says what he means and means what he says.  He posts *every* vote on Facebook and then explains each and every one.  And guess how many votes he’s missed?  Zero.  Try comparing any other congressional member with that.

          Conservatives suck?  GOP sucks is more like it.

          Stop and think about the political spectrum you believe in.  Commies on the left, religious on the right?  They all want to control the hell out of your life.  It’s a circle and you’re the fool.  “OMG repubs want to control your womb!” Nice try jackass, Obamacare does this same thing.  You lose either way.

          Try commies and religious nutbars on the left and liberty on the right.  It’s you vs. the state every time, all the time.  The new libertarian/conservative movement puts liberty first.  Religious, sexual, etc.  You name it.

        • Anonymous

          @19d118e624744abe60112d9d51fad166:disqus 

          The guy seems to act a bit like Christian Engström (the european pirate MEP) does. Yes, liberal conservatism means just what you say.

          Shame that’s one good apple in the toxic dump known as the GOP. You might find similar people in the Democrats but they are apt to be just as rare.

          Unless you guys from the US somehow manage to man up and get a third party running you will be stuck with republocrats and democons running the oval office forevermore. Because I can tell you for nothing you will find ONE or possibly two sensible politicians in any party. they are the token window dressing meant to persuade otherwise critical voters that there is still hope. They will NEVER hold office.

        • Chris Waller

          It sucks that I have to reply to “anyone” but the name fits who I’m actually talking to here:

          Ahem…
          Everyone needs to shut the fuck up and work on positive energy. Period. End of discussion. Be good people, quit being assholes to each other. Quit acting like you’re better than each other. Quit acting like you could do any better when you’ve never actually done it before. Quit trying to put other people down. Quit trying to make other people quit (for your benefit). Start trying to get other people to quit for EVERYONE’S benefit. The sooner we can put this whole “government” thing behind us, the sooner we can move on with our lives. I for one am just waiting for the day that we all stand up and just say “no more government”. We all obviously hate it. We can all do things without it. We’re all capable, resourceful, intelligent (in each individual’s way) and this hatred HAS to end before we destroy ourselves.

        • Anonymous

          Now a day’s everyone want to make some extra cash, Working at Internet is the best way and can bring you some extra cash, My elder brother is doing work at computer and last week he make 2800$, Move ahead for more info===>>??http://must2join.blogspot.com

      • Steve Waugh

        what Nicholas said I cant believe that a single mom able to profit $5056 in one month on the internet. have you seen this link ===>> http://starjob.blogspot.in/

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Buford-Doyle/741636924 Buford Doyle

        It doen’t matter. There is absoultely no difference between Libs and Cons except how they deliver the message.  If you want the truth then research the term “FACIST GOVERNMENT” that’s what we have behind the scenes and before long they won’t even pretend, they will say it loud and clear.  If you don’t believe it then look at Mussolini the “Father of Facism” and Hitler and then compare it to modern day USA. They had the Secret Police we have the Secret Service, they had the Gestapo we have the DHLS/DEA/BATFE/FBI/IRS and more. Everyday our lives are being turned over to nanny government and liberties traded for false securities because of a criminally ignorant public.  The criminal part is not the voter but the Corp/Government partnership that has succeeded in keeping the public so far in debt and underpaid they are to busy keeping their heads above water they cannot educate themselves regarding our Facist takeover.  So please stop the political finger pointing and blaming. Put your energies elsewher where they can do some good; read the constitution and hold your elected officials to it.

        On a positive note; Thankfully an intelligent Judge at last.

      • Anonymous

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      • http://travismccrea.com Travis McCrea

        Don’t just blame US Conservaitves, don’t forget that  Chris Dodd was a Democrat, and it was the Democrats who were the last hold outs on ACTA, SOPA, and were the passers of the DMCA.

        It’s easy to blame Republicans, because they are so wrong on so many things, but don’t let Democrats get off scott free

      • Anonymous

        as Joseph implied I didnt even know that a person can make $9400 in four weeks on the internet. have you read this website===>>??http://meetfreelancer.blogspot.com/ 

      • Anonymous

        my friend’s sister-in-law makes $85/hour on the computer. She has been unemployed for ten months but last month her payment was $16065 just working on the computer for a few hours. Go to this web site and read more ?????? http://Makecash11.blogspot.com

      • Anonymous

        my buddy’s sister-in-law made $18108 a month ago. she worrks on the internet and bought a $525400 condo. All she did was get blessed and put into action the instructions given on this website ===>> ?????? makecash-home.blogspot.com

      • Anonymous

        my co-worker’s sister got paid $21912 the previous week. she gets paid on the internet and got a $416800 house. All she did was get fortunate and put into action the steps given on this link===>> ?????? http://hiringfreelancers.blogspot.com

      • Anonymous

        my buddy’s sister-in-law made $18108 a month ago. she worrks on the internet and bought a $525400 condo. All she did was get blessed and put into action the instructions given on this website ===>> ?????? http://seekingguru.blogspot.com

    • wardriver
    • Lord of the Files

       I have a grand total of 12 devices connected to my router (it’s a wired/wireless combo with a pair of 7 port gigabit switches I added). Only three of those are actually PC’s. There are also three gaming devices, a laser printer, two cable boxes, a bluray player, and two phones. I’ll probably be adding a tablet PC into that mix soon and if I replace my television like I’ve been planning to, it will be connected as well.

      I’m the one in this household whom makes the most use of the internet, but even so my name isn’t the one on the bill. I’ve also noticed there are quite a few wireless routers in my area run by other folks too. One is even using the default password and belongs to my internet provider lol. 8D

      So you’re dead on with what you say and I agree that it’s great to see a judge with some common sense. My area is on track for getting fiber to the home, something that should result in a massive speed boost for everyone (their plan is to wire the entire city by 2015). I’m pretty excited about that. Hopefully hard drive manufacturers can keep up (still waiting for those 5 TB drives they promised would arrive years ago). ;)

      I’m more than willing to pay for my entertainment, provided it’s reasonably priced and has all the features I want. I wouldn’t have two cable boxes if I wasn’t, though I may ditch them if the industry keeps refusing to adapt and continues to lobbying (aka bribing) for draconian laws that are completely insane. Why the hell would I want to support someone whose goal is to trample all over my liberty just to make a few bucks?

      • Nulle

          My area is on track for getting fiber to the home, something that
        should result in a massive speed boost for everyone (their plan is to
        wire the entire city by 2015).
        ============================
        My area has optic fiber from 2005 and I pay 20$ for 100 Mb/s.

    • Anonymous

      as Carrie answered I am startled that a mom able to earn $9748 in a few weeks on the computer. have you seen this page===>> http://starjob.blogspot.in/ 

    • Steve Waugh

      like Francisco responded I didn’t know that a mother able to profit $8707 in 4 weeks on the internet. have you seen this page ===>> http://starjob.blogspot.in/

    • Anon

       I know, right.  I’m in IT as well, and as much as I dislike networking, it’s just painfully obvious that an IP address cannot recognise a single person.  I don’t see why the law has to rely on (usually) uninformed judges to declare if an IP address is sufficient or not, when a near endless amount of experts in the field will straight up say “It’s not sufficient.”

      • Anonymous

        MAINLY because a bunch of lawyers and lobbyists (who wouldn’t know what a TCP handshake was if one grabbed them by the ballsack) are being paid gagging bagfuls of money by a number of license holders (who don’t CARE what just grabbed their ballsack) in order to beat politicians (who generally consider an abacus to be an exceedingly difficult piece of electronics) over the head with wads of cash and legal paragraphs until they cave.

        Common sense, reason, or, for that matter, empirical fact, does not enter this equation. Welcome to politics.

    • http://twitter.com/ChadC01E Chad Cole

      Shit, We knew this 10 years ago in counter strike… IP BANS DO NOT WORK… Reset modem, Reconnect, Continue to be a dick bag…

      Thank god for steam ID’s!

      • Guest

         lol… people still buy new Steam accounts to continue cheating.

    • Edgar

      I used “Reaver” (youtube it) to gain access to my neighbors wireless router
      that has wpa2 encryption. I download many things: porn, games, movies etc.
      even let’s say kiddie porn or something. Who gets the law on their asses, my neighbors. With good judge, they walk free, if not, well, they get sued
      because of things, they have not downloaded.

    • Anonymous

      just as Nancy replied I am taken by surprise that someone able to profit $6386 in one month on the computer. have you read this page ===>> http://seekwork2home.blogspot.com/

    • Anonymous

      like Jeffrey implied I’m blown away that any one can earn $4784 in 4 weeks on the computer. did you look at this link ===>> http://seekwork2home.blogspot.com/

    • Anonymous

      like Kathleen responded I am alarmed that any body can get paid $6538 in 4 weeks on the internet. have you seen this website ===>> http://seekwork2home.blogspot.com/

    • Anonymous

      like Lillian said I am dazzled that a person able to profit $5335 in 4 weeks on the computer. did you see this web link ===>> http://seekwork2home.blogspot.com/

    • Anonymous

      You know very well Internet is too much famous now a days and many of peoples use Internet so you have a good chance for doing make money online and build up your ways and get paid a good amount weekly. If you motivated after that you will get more and more. My one of friend is doing work at internet and last month his account is credited with 8000 USD. Recently he shared his experience with me, Just move ahead for more details? http://earnusdathome.weebly.com/

    • Anonymous

      just as Valerie answered I’m in shock that you able to make $7953 in four weeks on the internet. did you read this web page==???===>>> http://earnusdathome.weebly.com/

    • Anonymous

      ???what Pamela explained I am amazed that some people can get paid $8658 in 4 weeks on the internet. did you read this web site ??

    • CuriousBoy

      Saying that though, I was in my router settings earlier to change my DNS and I have noticed that my PC, My iPod, my sister’s iPod and Mum’s PC, all had the same IP adress apart from the last two digits which were XXX.X.XXX.62    .63     .64           does that mean they can pinpoint it to my PC as they are different adresses? (P.S. Im a noob :)  )

    • Guest

       I think that’s why most sane Judges equate the MAC address with a person, not an IP address.
      2/10

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/5Q4SD4RDWKO6SNAOSNZDXK6YGU Will Genie

        “Although intended to be a permanent and globally unique
        identification, it is possible to change the MAC address on most modern
        hardware”
        Even a wikipedia search would inform those same judges that they were wrong.
         

    • Anonymous

      One of my familiar share his experience about online work, he told me the secret that last couple of days, he got approximate 1500$ through internet work, I was so inspired that I just Would you like to share the link ??http://startbytoday.blogspot.com

  • Lawl & hurrdurr

    ” First…”

    Congrats. Your $1,000,000 prize will be send to your IP address.

    Oh wait..

  • ayman

    God Bless him

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-DefCon-Ebeling/616024625 Jason DefCon Ebeling

    That’s rare, a judge who isn’t being paid by copyright companies..

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      It’s not really rare at the LOWER court levels. The problem is that at the higher court levels, a lot of judges do have connections to the copyright companies…. which in my opinion should get them kicked out of office immediately for potential conflicts of interest.
      Yes, when you are a judge, in my opinion and that of most I have talked with you have the responsibility to AVOID even the appearance of CoI. Which means, you don’t buy stocks and/or you automatically step aside if you have/had stocks in a company or any relatives do when they bring stuff to your courtroom.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/5Q4SD4RDWKO6SNAOSNZDXK6YGU Will Genie

        I thought a judge failing to recuse themself and is later found to have reason for potential bias was cause for dismissal of a ruling and retrial

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/5Q4SD4RDWKO6SNAOSNZDXK6YGU Will Genie

          a bit like thomas porteous

  • MadAsASnake

    Excellent. As if it is not obvious that the account holder is not necessarily the user.

  • Johnny Hooper

    So, in cases whee that this defence is used, allow police to subpoena all computing equipment for forensic analysis.

    Solved. Everyone happy.

    • Guest

       Don’t forget to have the police copy any data that supports the prosecution’s case, then move to have all subpoenaed hard drives wiped, just to make sure that no evidence remains that would support the defendant’s case.

    • MadAsASnake

       Don’t think the police can do that in civil cases.

      • Anonymous

        Correct copyright infringement is a civil matter and the police and not involved.

        • Johnny Hooper

           False. Stealing is a criminal act.

        • Anonymous

          Stealing falls under the Theft law. Copyright infringement has its own law and theft is not applicable.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw-MFeR8Frw

        • Guest

          Filesharing isn’t stealing.

          Johnny needs a brain, stat!

        • Guest

          Sharing is stealing!
          Inspiration is Theft!

    • Martin Fierce

       defence? seriously? wow! 3rd grade English bud!!  ” DEFENSE “

      • Anyone

        depends if you are british or american

      • Matthew

        “Defense” is the English spelling in the U.S.
        “Defence” is the English spelling in the rest of the world.

      • Pete

         The Grammar-police strikes again !

        ‘Defence’ is the correct English way to spell it .
        ‘Aluminum’ ?
        ‘Color’ ??
         Gimme a break !

      • ChiefSpellChecker

        ‘Defense’ means to remove ‘fense’ (although, more correctly that would be spelt ‘fens’ without the silent ‘e’). In other words, to rid England of the low-lying coastal region around East Anglia. ‘Defence’ on the other hand is the noun form for ‘defend’. 1st year English language classes my friend.

    • Gae

      Did you even read the article? The whole point is that it is not possible to tell who carried out the infringement.
      If your wireless network is unsecured (and at present you have every right to operate an unsecured network) then the only way you could analyze all the equipment is if you seized all the computers in the world.
      That explains why an IP address can never be used to identify a person.

      • Guest

         Starting July 1, AT&T and Time Warner will Outlaw Hotspots and
        unsecured wifi under their SOPA-based “Graduated Response” policy.
        It’s already a crime to share internet access in Florida, Michigan, and Illinois right now.

    • Guest

      Except in cases where someone hopped on your home network, downloaded an infringing file on his laptop, and then went about his merry way. Then you have the massive inconvenience (that’s putting it lightly) of having all your equipment seized and searched because someone who cannot be identified happened to use your network for illegal activity. Which seems like a huge violation of the Fourth Amendment to me. :)

      • Vilhelm

        And they didn’t even use your network for illegal activity, just unlawful activity. It’s not even a crime, it’s an infringement (a tort)!

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    Sane judge. Where is the “Like” button? :o

    • Gyuguyyu

       Sane Judge. Where is the “unbelievable” button? :@

  • Anonymous

    Wow, it boggles my mind that there is actually a judge with some common sense.

  • Meow

    @ayman god has nothing to do with this. He used REASON to make judgment. 

    • Bobs

      Man stop trying to start shit. Let people believe what they wanna believe.

      • Infinity

        Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The etymological roots of the word are the Greek anti- and theismos. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.

        • Paul Clark

          Antitheism != atheism.

          Antitheism like you stated is against theism.
          Atheism however, is simply a lack of theistic belief, good or bad. 

          I know you have not openly stated otherwise.  Yet, you have placed this same block of text in reply to a few people who are not necessarily against christian beliefs but, are obviously not for them either. 

      • Anonymous

         You’re not helping by feeding the troll.

      • http://twitter.com/joshtarle Josh Tarle

        The MAFIAA wants to believe they have a right to frivolously sue everyone. Let’s just let them believe what they want to believe though right? No.

    • Haydenb

      I understand that God is relevant to everything, even the Leblanc system. And another thing, why do you feel the need to troll somebody’s innocent comment? They weren’t looking for a fight, yet you felt the need to impose your humanist idealogy on us.

      • Dimo Quilala

        Because the champion of reason needs no reason to troll someone who has a reason to believe in god?

        • Infinity

          Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The etymological roots of the word are the Greek anti- and theismos. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.

      • Anonymous

        @badd636e494843fd9f94b29f3fb29abb:disqus   just as we don’t need Christian ideology imposed on us?

        • Anonymous

          A comment is not imposing. You can just disregard the comment. But you chose to continue the trolling.

          You don’t like it. But you perpetuate it.

        • Anonymous

           nope, just trying to point out the hypocrisy of that comment…no more, no less.

          “You can just disregard the comment. But you chose to continue the trolling.

          You don’t like it. But you perpetuate it.”

          Maybe you should have listened to your own words as you typed them!

      • Infinity

        Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The etymological roots of the word are the Greek anti- and theismos. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.

      • themerryreaper

        I’m sorry, but your god misspelled ideology. It makes him/her/it look like a tool.

        Oh wait I forgot that your god is only responsible for the good stuff, the bad stuff is always our fault.

        Thank it/her/him for not making one through me in this instance when you chat.

        :rolleyes:

        • tony

          lawls. this made me laugh.

      • Anonymous

        He wasn’t imposing. And you’re feeding the troll. So, you stop first cause you’re not helping your cause.

    • Infinity

      Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The etymological roots of the word are the Greek anti- and theismos. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.

      • Anonymous

         Yeah, got it the first two times you posted it.

    • Anonymous

      I just went back to re-read ayman’s comment. 
      It said, “God bless him.” Really, Meow(th)? REALLY? You had to start a debate because of THAT? *smh*

  • Anyone

    I wait a few hours for the judge to retract this before I actually get my hopes up.

  • Bang2rights

    finally someone who hasn’t gots his/her head up his/her ass.

    • Whiplash

      It’s obvious he’s a dude. Hence the name.

      • Anonymous

         Is Whiplash a girl’s name?

  • Aononymous

    this ruling is long over due. however, the harder thing is to now ensure that all the entertainment industries, ISPs and courts worldwide understand this fact as well and treat copyright accusations and those accused of copyright infringement with this fact in mind:
    AN IP ADDRESS IDENTIFIES THE INTERNET ACCOUNT HOLDER, NOT THE PERSON THAT IS ACCUSED OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
    so get that into your thick fucking skulls, entertainment industries, agents and trolls! 

    • Lsd1

      you know what will happen, though, right?

      the media industry is going to push for a bill that will allow account holders to be prosecuted when they fail to act after being notified etc. etc. etc.

      and they will get through because they have millions to spend on lobbyists..

      • Anonymous

        Did PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA get through because they had millions to spend on lobbyists?

        • Freeflight

          Don’t be a stupid sheeple please…
          PIPA, SOPA, ACTA and CISPA had just been their first tries to get everything they want trough in one swift package.

          They didn’t count on the internet and people in general picking up on it and generating such an huge public shitstorm. This public shitstorm foced the bought out politicans to back off from supporting these bills.

          Right now they are in “cool down mode” waiting for the debate to be forgotten and the public attention to move to other topics. While they are waiting they are trying to push trough what they want in small doses. They just couple their desired law changes with small bills that relate to completly different topics.

          ACTA has been in the work since 2006, you think they gonna let it die so easily?
          Nope it’s still alive and needs to get voted on in June/July and that vote could end up with an unpleasant surprise.

          Even if ACTA finnaly fails they already have a replacement ready to push it’s called IPRED.

          Don’t let your guard down, this is an war and the war is getting into the hottest phase. They have all the money, power and authority. We only have numbers and smarts. As such stay vigilant, never back off, never stop asking questions, never believe that your freedom is “guaranteed”.

          As long as these guys swim in the kind of money they do, that long they will keep pushing to influence the rulebook in their favor to gain even more. To them it’s just Monopoly on a global scale.

      • guest

        Where are they then when they have no one to provide to cause they all were notified then terminated?  Sounds like a case of screwing themselves! An ISP provider has no right to what the account holder does. All the ISP is doing is providing access. Why is it their concern to police what an account holder does over their IS.. It doesn’t concern them, implicate them or get them in trouble. So who is the ISP to have anything to say? they’re just providing a service. They can’t get in trouble for it. Regardless the ISP’s that start notifying and making threats of termination and infringement rights etc. Will start losing customers by the masses!  Copyrighted Film should only apply while in the movies or the 1st shown episodes. After that it’s on demand and DVR and can be watched 10000000s of times.. So what is the difference if I DVR a show or Dload it? Its the same exact thing! except 1 is on the TV 1 is on the PC..!! Make any sense?? NOPE…  The 500mill worldwide that was made off a Film isnt enough? Most people buy a movie watch it once and thats it! Why pay so high 2 watch 1 time? Stop raping the people and piracy wouldn’t be as big! but screw em if its free its for me!

    • Rhymes

      Get that into your thick fucking skulls … 

      Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

      (Hey that Rhymes!)

      • Anonymous

         You should write that song, sell it to the production labels so they can make you famous. You will give them most of the earnings made on the song. Not to mention your agent. S/he will take a cut as well. You’ll get $1 for every CD sold. The Production Co will then sue all of your fans for listening to and enjoying your music without paying. Your fans will get mad and just not listen to your music anymore. No more concerts. No more CD sales, You will end up a has been because of the greed of the people to whom you sold the song. All new records will come out on an indie label after that same Production Co turns around to sue you too for abandoning the contract you had with them. No more fans. No more money. No more song rights. Production Co execs laugh on a private jet.

        End.

        • Rhymes

          Skulls …………  

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          Did PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA get Through Because they had millions to spend on You?

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          PIPA, SOPA, ACTA and CISPA, Just their first tries To get everything they want, All fingers in all the Pies

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          They didn’t count on the internet shitstorm Pushin what they want, in small doses  Waiting for the debate, to be forgotten
          Public attention, movin to the tropics  Bought out politicans, on the “cool down” Fuckin the masses, the downtrodden 

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          ACTA been in the work since 2006Think they gonna let it die so Quick? 
          Nope it’s alive and needs to get voted  June or July and no one noted 
          That vote could end with an unpleasant surprise  Even if it fails they have an IPRED sunrise

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          Get that into your thick fucking skulls …  Entertainment industries, agents and trolls … 

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxk3c_SbWMg

  • Cyke1

    Said it before and i’ll say it again, good to see judges wising up to this attemped blackmailing scam crap. Most these IP’s they have might not even been doing what they say. All MPAA has to do is say this ip was seen on this torrent at this time even if IP was never there EVER and it used to be enough to allow them to threaten legal action. Its like a car with no license plate is used for a robbery a Black honda civic from 2004, just a random off top my head example. By their claims everyone who owns that car is criminal if you use MPAA/RIAA way of things. well least they could be.

    • Whiplash

      Yeah, that boggles me to. How do they prove to the court the IP they “found” was actually where and when they found it and not just one they pulled out of their ass?

      • Infinity

        Can Anyone say DHCP?

      • Whiplash Is A Nub

        nub.

  • townie2

    finally a judge see’s the real world! no bull,i’ve got 5 university students living together next door,and it’s a constant battle to keep them from hacking my  wifi, so this stuff about innocent people being accused copyright infringement does happen.

  • Colin

    At Last – A Judge who has some reasonable understanding of how an IP address does not equal a person.
    Could he please come to the UK and take over at our high court

    A few years ago the IP address supplied to my house, was used only by my desktop PC.  Now as well as that PC, There is a laptop, IPad, smartphone plus of course the “phone” of any family member who visits for more than an hour and wants internet access. 

  • http://twitter.com/vashtehstampde Brandon Clemmer

    I’m not a complete expert, but No… a Single IP address DOES NOT encompass an entire House’s network address but rather a single machines in the house (slightly different than what the judge thinks) and on top of that,  I Do believe that IP addresses are set to change and re-assign/renew like once a day,,, depending on the setup of course.  But either way, sounds like a judge i’d like  haha

    • Anyone

      yes, and that single machine usually is the router.
      from the outside all computers connected to the router share the same IP, so you cannot tell which device was used for filesharing, or even who used the device.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation

      • http://twitter.com/vashtehstampde Brandon Clemmer

        No…i meant that every machine attached to that router has a separate IP…. that router however DOES have it’s own IP as the Default Gateway.  Every subsequent machine off the of the router,, wireless device or not, is assigned a separate IP from thereon out.  the computer your on now DOES indeed have a different IP than the one youd have in a different room.  2 devices cannot function with the same IP assigned to each one.

        • Cavelord

          Buy this logic, if your hit someone with your car, make sure to get your family out of it before the police come. The when asked who was driving, just kind of raise your shoulders and say, not sure. The police will be baffled, and leave.

        • Piercing_male

           I think you’re both correct and incorrect.

          Your PC’s IP address, when it goes through the router, is randomly converted to a port number, this is then put in memory with the IP address.

          The IP address, from your computer, is then converted to the IP address of the router and the port number is updated (In the data packet)… this gets sent to the internet site requested.

          The site requested then sends new data back to your router (that also contains the random port number generated)

          Your router then looks in the memory and using the port numbers in memory reverses the IP number back to its original and sends it back to your PC.

          Because the port number used in the router lookup is random it is impossible to know which internal machine sent the data requests after a while.

          I have to say I originally thought that the internal IP was embedded at a lower level. IE data packet = IPAddressExternal(IPAddressInternal)DataBlock.

        • ZBB6021023

           Right and wrong, the IP addresses you use within your home are typically RFC1918 addresses, or “non-routable” addresses.  These addresses are specifically not allowed to be used across a public network, and are reserved for use within your network.  Any attempt to use them on a public network results in the first router dropping the packets as bogus.

          Your home router uses what is called Network Address Translation (NAT) to convert your internal IP address to it’s external (public) ip address, and to ensure that communications are routed back to the proper internal device when responses come in.

          So yes, all your computers have a single unique IP address, but from the outside, all your devices appear to have the same single IP address, that is assigned to your router by the ISP.

      • http://twitter.com/vashtehstampde Brandon Clemmer

        To further Elaborate though,, Which IP is being gotten and tried for evidence?  the one that IS the router (which is then the Default Gateway in the home)  or the one OF the actual computer/device accessing the internet?  privately assigned IP or not,  an IP is still an IP  hah

        • Mitch

          Brandon, please do more reading before you decide to confuse yourself and others next time. No one on the outside sees your internal/LAN IP addresses. They only see the ONE IP address assigned to your router.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          It’s always the IP address of the router or actually, the modem CONNECTED to the router, which makes the IP address worthless even in child porn cases.

          As a judge said to the police very recently in Maryland, when a guy was accused of that and they couldn’t find any CP on his computer nor any other devices he owned.

        • MadAsASnake

          Agree with others here – read up. All the outside world sees is the modem IP – which has no clues as to NAT routing beyond – it works that way to get around the IP4 adress space limitation.

        • Gary

          IP addresses assigned to each computer by the router is not seen outside the network  they only see the IP that is assigned by the ISP so the MPAA/RIAA only can see the IP assigned by the ISP.

        • Infinity

          dumb asses most routers keep a log of the sites individual pc visit. get to know your router. be one with your router ooosssaaaahhhhhh………

      • Asashii

        ever been to youhavedownloaded they had some didnt have everything but what it did have was accurate, static dynamic, Timestamps for when you had that I.P. and its not that hard are even really much to argue or discuss, its that easy !!!

    • Lsd1

      externally, the only IP visible is that of the single machine, i.e. the router. unless hacking is done, there is no way to view who is connected to said router (if there is one)

    • Gary

      Sorry but your wrong Brandon well half wrong…your modem from your ISP has a public IP address and your wireless router has it’s internal IP and it gives each device that connects to it it’s own IP using DNS server so say for example the guy next door was to connect to your wireless router (assuming it was open access) he could download pirated material and they would trace it to your network. so the only way they can prove who did it would be to find it on your computer or other media device. the  MPAA/RIAA  need to to meet us half way and find a way to make p2p work for everybody instead if being the greedy little twits they are and go after everybody. there needs to be some middle ground.

      • ModemHacker

        Cable modems also have 2 IP addresses, the HFC IP which is internal to your provider’s network (over the coax), and the standard IP address most people are familiar with.

    • Anonymous

      For most setups working well the IP supplied by, say, bittorrent, the adress you get is the ip addy of your router.

      After that the router assigns the traffic to your other devices based on port.

      This is why some people have problems getting certain applications to work – they forget to set port forwarding on their router which means internal addressing can be hit-and-miss. 

  • Guest

    Problem is though, are you really going to point the finger at someone else who lives in your house and say, “Wasn’t me, must have been the wife. Sorry Honey.”

    They can’t empirically say it was one person or another downloading content to an IP address, but they can probably prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

    • Mitch

      “It was probably you, and not your wife”, is NOT beyond a reasonable doubt, and you do not need to incriminate someone else for reasonable doubt to occur.

    • Huddel

      Reasonable doubt shouldn’t work in courts. You either got proof or you don’t – otherwise presumption of innocence should triumph.

      Sadly our courts haven’t been into that “due process”-thing they liked in the past.

      • Anonymous

        In Civil cases it is mostly about which side has the more believable story.

        • MadAsASnake

           Balance of probablilities is the test.

      • Guest

         ”Reasonable doubt shouldn’t work in courts. You either got proof or you
        don’t – otherwise presumption of innocence should triumph.”

        Really? Think about that for a second. What constitutes “proof” to you? Is it when there can be absolutely no doubts? Because that’s a bullshit standard.

        Here’s an example of a situation without proof that satisfies the of reasonable doubt. A red car is speeding down the road at 140 MPH and hits two traffic posts and a child before eluding the cops. The cops trace the license plate the next day and find a damaged red car in the possession of a man who has scratches and bruises and whiplash consistent with what could be expected from the man who was eluding the police. Clearly, this is your guy. However, he and his wife
         claim that he was somewhere else that night, and that his injuries are coincidental.

        In such a situation, we have no proof that this man was actually the one driving, but no one could have a reasonable doubt that this man was the one who was driving the car and killed the child. We use the standard of reasonable doubt because establishing proof is impossible.

        This applies to photographs too. How do we know that a photo isn’t doctored? What about witness testimony? That can’t ever prove anything, because they could all just be bribed. We don’t have any reasonable doubts, but we still have doubts, and therefore, the case is not proved.

        Think for a while on the implications of what you are advocating. Read up on criminal law. You may find that the problem is not “reasonable doubt”, but instead making sure that all involved parties are clear on the definition of reasonable doubt.

        Oh, and for the record, an IP address is definitely not enough to assuage the reasonable doubts of anyone with any remedial technical knowledge.

        • Anonymous

          A very good summary. An ip addy is in most practical cases akin to saying “Since we know the bank robber got on a bus and we have the license plate of said vehicle, we have now sentenced the driver”.

    • Jimmy

       Yes, but in my case the internet access is under my wife’s name and I do the illegal downloading. She doesn’t know what I do on my computer so if she gets sued she could very easily say truthfully she wasn’t responsible for the copyright infringement going on at our house.

      • thatotherguy

        in your case your wife probably would get sued, and sentenced too. that’s fair, innit?

    • Whiplash

      Did you even read the article? -.^

      It could just as well have been a friend visiting. Or your neighbour. Or someone else who has random access you your net. Or the IP could be fake.

  • http://twitter.com/Rikeus Riley

     I wonder, is an IP address still sufficient for obtaining a warrant to search a computer? For example, if the FBI saw that a particular IP address had downloaded Child Pornography, would that still be sufficient evidence to obtain a warrant to search computer of whoever the ISP tells the FBI the IP address was linked to at the time?

    • Noah C.

      Yeah, it probably would.

    • Cavelord

      Yes, But by getting a warrant, they are actually looking for evidence to see who is guilty in the house, not just arresting the “owner” of the ip address. This is why the RIAA and others are messing up, they don’t follow through and prove who actually did the crime.

    • MadAsASnake

      Yes. The warrant is a court doc and all information obtained under that warrant should remain in that purveiw and for nothing else. So Mafiaa cannot ride shotgun snooping for potential infringement in these cases.

      • Anonymous

        In the US, that’d be. In Sweden for instance, the jurisprudence is “open evidence”. Same with much of the nordics, which is why the local IFPI are riding hard to link filesharing to child porn and “hard” cybercrimes in general.

        • MadAsASnake

           And in the UK. Any information obtained through court order remains in the purview of the court and may only be used for the purposes and by the people stated in the disclosure order.

    • Huddel

      Yes, they can, they are looking for evidence instead of accusing beforehand, and that’s how it should be – you know, with due proccess.

  • AU FTW

    This is also like when someone is using your car and commit a crime, so they trace the cars license plate and want to pin the crime on you.

  • Bill Hicks

    My wife is the account holder in our household, but i am the one who downloads, so who is guilty?

    • Anyone

      your children

    • Krosis

      Your pet or deceased grandmother.

    • MadAsASnake

       The neighbour (who may or may not have hacked your hifi)

    • Danny

      No body is guilty of anything, you should be praised for your actions!

    • Nanotomics

      The dude sleeping with your wife.

  • Beaver

    so when we are taking our money back from these scums??? All the money RIAA/MPAA got from people would be considered as an “illegal” claim. People that gave money to them should regroup and sue back these compagnies.

  • Vorador

    I am a certified computer technician, and there are a few flaws on both sides of the argument. Primarily being that each individual device in a household is assigned it’s own IP address. The other primary flaw, one one the prosecutions side, is that there are many ways and programs to CHANGE the individual IP address of a device. If I feel like it, my computer could be browsing the internet putting out an IP address in china. Or Atlanta, GA. The point being that there could conceivably be many more people facing charges who have never actually used their computer for more than reading the news and their e-mails, who face these charges because someone like me used an IP randomizer to mask their actual IP (not intentionally and if I’ve ever led to someone getting in trouble for what I do/download/say on the internet I apologize profusely) as theirs, than any of these copyright holders think. That being said, the judge is still accurate about an IP address NOT being a way to definitively identify a copyright violator, nor do I feel should it be enough to issue a warrant to search a persons computer.

    Also, in today’s hard economic times, not everyone has a computer of their own. My ex-fiancee didn’t have a computer of her own until I built one for her, up till then she was using the family computer. A computer with multiple user accounts, all whom could install and download files independently and without the knowledge of the other users of that computer, but that had a singular IP address. So even on a singular device an individual is not identifiable by IP address. 

    Finally to the person who linked to Wikipedia to show that the “IP address was the same throughout the system it was assigned to the router”, don’t always believe what you read on Wikipedia. It’s obviously not accurate as true, the router DOES have an individual IP, like say 172.15.0.0, however in most network systems the FIRST device connected to this network is then assigned the IP address 172.15.0.1. It then proceeds numerically from there. 18 years of computer experience, A+ certification and Microsoft certification tell me that this is how a network works. And if you ask ANY technician who knows what their talking about, they will tell you the exact same thing. 

    • Vorador

      Those who argue that externally those IP address differences aren’t seen, that the router IP is all that is seen, I challenge you to a little test. Go to Runescape.com, create an account, and log in from one of the computers in your home then log out. Then log in again on the same computer. It will tell you at the log-in welcome screen what the IP address you last logged in from. Go to another computer in your household on the same internet connection, and log in, log out, log back in. Look at the last IP logged in from, and you will discover that it is a different IP, not entirely, just slightly. External sources CAN see your IP address because it is required for them to connect to the EXACT device within an individual network. Plain and simple, they don’t connect to the router they connect to your computer. If all they saw was the router IP they would be only capable of talking to the router, because they wouldn’t be able to find your computer. 

      Case in point, my ex-fiancee’s brother bought himself a laptop. At some point, approximately 5 months after he purchased it, law enforcement agents knocked on the door with a warrant for that computer. They knew that it was his laptop used to download an illegal file, not the family computer, even though they were on the same network through the same router. How would that be possible if they could not see the “internal IP addresses”?

      • Person

         No. In normal situations, they cannot see your “internal IP address”, just your “external IP address”. If you understand NAT (network address translation), you’ll figure out why.

        Which doesn’t mean it’s not possible for something at the application layer to be leaking your local IP (internal IP address), or even the use of browser fingerprinting to detect different “agents” behind the same IP address. But, yeah… if you’re talking about BitTorrent, then… no, there is no way for them to accurately figure out the internal IP address of the “torrenting device”.

      • Anonymous

        Software wrote by the site you are connected to and run on your local computer, including in the browser, can read both the Public IP and your Local network IP and should they desire they can also read the MAC Address.

        Even from that alone they can do some nifty GeoLocation to pinpoint the computer’s location to only a few meters. Then they can rip from the computer certain details including the name of the account being used.

        So when they turn up they can simply say “Where is Dave? And where is Dave’s computer?”

        BT P2P is different when they have no control over the BT Client that you do use so they can only see the Public IP address of your router.

        • MadAsASnake

           … you can’t run that on a P2P client…

      • Octogenarian

        @Vorador,

        Please post more stupid shit. 

      • Guest

        That game sucks and your “challenge” doesn’t matter.  If they didn’t use an internal IP, then two computers using the same external IP would not be able to log into the game.

        Your ex-fiancee left you because you play too many video games.

        • Anyone

          of course 2 computers with the same external IP can log into the game

      • TZ

        Internal IP address can be seen only if the program is connecting through a proxy server, and even this happens if your proxy server is configured to transmit this data. If you’re just using NAT, which is true in most cases, internal IP and mac addresses is removed completely from IP packet and point of origin for this connection cant be identified outside of your internal network.

    • MadAsASnake

       Really? Know how NAT works? How would the ISP track an individual PC behind a NAT router?

      • Anyone

        there are ways to track IF there are multiple computers behind a router (mostly because windows uses ascending ports for connections), but that is all that is technically possible short of actually hacking the router and entering the network.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Which hacking the router for any reason if you are not a police agency is illegal.

      • Vorador

        Yes, I know how NAT works. Anybody who has been through the appropriate training and certification to be an internet technician should know how NAT works. Did you try my challenge? Do you understand the basis behind the IP system? Or any of the internet connection ideas? These numbers are markers on a map of the internet, they are used to identify the source and destination of information exchange over the internet. If there is no identification of individual computer outside of the network, then a router would not know where the information was meant to go. A router functions exactly as its name implies, it routes information from source to requesting device using IP and other identifying markers, if the source had no clue where to send that information, it would send it to the router which would be able to do nothing about it. I am amazed at how many people in this day and age seem to lack a basic grip on the understanding on how the internet works. It’s not new tech anymore, hasn’t been for a while.

        • MadAsASnake

          The key is “other”. Of course there is other information to do the final routing past NAT. That is not IP, and in the vast majority of cases (and all I know about) has never been tracked. Even if you can / do track it, it does not tell you who is sitting at the keyboard.

        • http://twitter.com/Ether_Man Daniel Jönsson

          People like you make me sad… You claim to have all this knowledge about how routing and how NAT works… Bitch and moan about how people dont know…  And then go on to prove that you havnt got the slightest friggin clue how it works… Please…  Do some reading about how NAT works before going further… While some services “bleed” your internal IP, this is rare and is quite irrelevant.. Internal IPs are used in ranges that are designated to be private.. No ISP has assigned them and cant be asked for information about where they are… Only your external can be located using that method. Once external has been found, one would need to actually look into the device handing out the internal IPs to find which device has that internal one… That is however information that RIAA and so on, does NOT have access to in any way. Even if they do have access, it only allows for looking up which device is CURRENTLY holding that IP… Home subscribers are not in any way required to keep logs of who had a certain IP at any given time…  Now…  As for your runescape example..  It’s actually quite simple to answer why you see this… BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT NATED… Not being NATed however is quite uncommon these days and not even knowing that you are not NATed, kindof HEAVILY disproves you being certified computer tech (hell even that sentence proves you’re not because “computer tech” isnt a certification and is a much too large field that anyone actually certified in any of the subfields, would consider themself to be certified “computer tech” because of having say CCNA).. You also claim that ”
          Anybody who has been through the appropriate training and certification to be an internet technician” Which is REALLY sad to see…  Seeing as how “internet technician” is not a field, it’s not a title, and NOONE except people that havnt the foggiest idea about what the internet even IS, would use such a silly term…  So please…  Do yourself a favour and read up a bit about what you claim… You’re only making yourself out to be a fool right now…

        • themerryreaper

           Clearly if we tell you this stuff is way over your head, you will tell others you have a lot of overhead and are in fact an overhead specialist.

        • Furry411

          Haha you clearly fail to even understand what a broadcast address is. Numbers are markers on a map? No they are called routing tables. The public internet CANNOT route internal IP addresses, but it a 10/8, a 172.16/12 or a 192.168/16.

          Like people have said certain software can detect the internal IP address but we are not talking about layer 7 here… Hell we really are not even talking about NATing which is really a one to one relationship, but PATing.

          Port address translation, which is why the external device will never see your internal IP, the router/firewall whatever keeps the TCP session alive based on source and destination port and source and destination address, thus the external device never will see the internal IP, because the edge device initiates thh TCP connection based on a public, ROUTABLE, IP address. Please remeber IP address works at layer 4. I know you are an “internet technician” whatever that means but you might want to read up on TCP Illustrated volume 1 and 2, or maybe something easier like TCP for dummies, along with a REAL firewall book and understand how a firewall handles the PORT address translation.

        • Kr0nZ

          Yes i tried your ‘challenge’ on 4 (2 windows, 2 linux) computers in my house, and on every single one I had the same IP.

          Maybe you were using business isp account?
          those ISPs usually allocate multiple IP address to the account holder.

          Im not sure where you got your so called training at, but HOME routers, which are the main target for these copyright trolls, ROUTE from the external to the internal IPs based on what PORT the external IP is receiving on

          THIS IS WHY THERE IS SUCH A THING AS PORT FORWARDING

          I suggest you get a refund on your training as they never taught you a damn thing

    • Danny

      Sorry but “Primarily being that each individual device in a household is assigned it’s own IP address” although is technically true is invalid in this example.

      Yes you have a unique IP within your network but the router uses network address translation to multiplex your internet connection with each computer in your household, in doing this each machine appears that it has the same external IP according to anyone looking at the communications from the outside. Most internal LANs have the same IP 192.168.x.x which is an invalid IP on the internet. If you knew anything about network communications you would know this.

      So you obviously have no clue what a computer or Internetz is!

    • Furry411

      Sounds like some bad info here,

      First off 172.15.0.0 is a broadcast address and will never be assigned to any device. Second the home router, DCHP server, whatever, is not usually going to assign the devices on the inside side of the device a public IP address but rather a private IP address and use the public IP as a hide behind PAT address. So basically anyone connected to the inside of the device will be seen on the public internet as the single public, outside, address.

      Also proxies do not work the way you describe and it sounds like you are confusing IP spoofing with proxy servers. If you start assigning yourself random IP addresses the packets will hit the destination, but never be routed back to your PC, b/c the route tables will route the pack back to the subnet found in the routing tables. A proxy is used to physical connect to and it will be used as an intermediate device that the TCP traffic travel though masking your IP address, this is kinda how the TOR network works, to the destination, and the destination will use the same proxy to return the flow, thus hiding your real IP address behind the IP of proxy.

      This is coming from a CCNA/CCNP/CCSP/CISSP….

    • Octogenarian

      @Vorador,

      Please post more stupid shit.

  • Trolls

    The UK High Court has come to a similar conclusion:

    vi) Even if the monitoring software is functioning correctly and the ISP correctly identifies the subscriber to whom the IP address which has been detected was allocated at the relevant time, it does not necessarily follow that the subscriber was the person who was participating in the P2P filesharing which was detected. There are a number of alternative possibilities, including the following:
    a) The IP address identifies a computer and someone else in the same household (whether a resident or visitor) was using the computer at the relevant time (which might be with or without the knowledge of the subscriber).
    b) The IP address identifies a router and someone else in the same household (whether a resident or visitor) was using a computer communicating via the same router (which might be with or without the knowledge of the subscriber).
    c) The IP address identifies a wireless router with an insecure (either open or weakly encrypted) connection and someone outside the household was accessing the internet via that router (in all probability, without the knowledge of the subscriber).
    d) The IP address identifies a computer or router, the computer or a computer connected to the router has been infected by a trojan and someone outside the household was using the computer to access the internet (almost certainly, without the knowledge of the subscriber).
    e) The IP address identifies a computer which is open to public use, for example in an internet café or library.http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2012/723.html 

  • xavi

    Time to counter sue

  • Luin@

    But this means that the Anti-piracy organisations will find other ways to track pepole like CISPA. I bet they will ty harder in the future.

    • MadAsASnake

      This is why they are trying so hard to pin responsibility on people that did not do it – reverse burden of proof and insulate them selves from counter-suits.

  • Notroll

    Likely it would be sufficient, but remember this is a civil case, and  the plaintiff will have to pay for executing the warrant and pay a forensics expert for sifting through the equipment.

    If plaintiff doesn’t proceed with the case, or if the forensics investigation doesn’t turn up any evidence, or if and this is very important some of the equipment being unavailable for forensic investigation, plaintiff’s expenses  can make the entire lawsuit uneconomical.

    If I share a room with five room mates, and I get a subpoena from the court, what should I do? I can turn over the router and my computer, and what if it proves nothing? My other five room mates could have downloaded and seeded plaintiff’s work while I am not even at home, or some of all the room mates could have had a visitor who used the same wireless access point, or some or all or just one connecting device could be infected with malware.

    And even if I wanted, I could have two computers connecting two the router with different spoofed mac addresses.
    The first one is clean not containing any torrent software or anything related to file sharing. The second computer is where all my file sharing activity is conducted, and it’s running even when I am not at home.

    I could get perfect plausible deniability by following these steps:

    1. Buy a second computer with cash so there is no paper trail.

    2. Install Linux and a torrent program.

    2a. Insure that the mac address and the computer name and other info sent to the wireless router is completely random.

    3. Schedule the program to download and seed at at time I can prove even beyond a reasonable doubt that I couldn’t do it, and of course by proof I mean a paper alibi.

    4. When the nastygrams begin to arrive in my mailbox, I’ll just deny that I have downloaded and seeded plaintiff’s work and offer a complete forensics investigation of my computer, but on plaintiff’s expense.

    Plaintiff can look at the router logs, and see that there was a connection from a computer with a mac address, computer name and possibly other info I don’t know. 
    But for how long are router logs kept? Most consumer routers aren’t designed to store logs for a very long time.

    Plaintiff can’t prove or disprove who owned the computer.

    Only the most determined and litigious plaintiff is likely to initiate such a lawsuit strategy. We are past the point of copyright trolling being a profittable business.

    • Anonymous

      One of the copyright trolls did point out what he would do.

      This was to visit your house and to interrogate your family followed by your fiends and neighbours which along with added treats can get people to squeal at who really did the infringement.

      I can’t say that I have even seen them do that.

      • MadAsASnake

         Sounds like harrassment to me

        • Guest

           It is harrassment, that’s what they do.  It seems that that’s all that they do.

  • Anonymous

    This is nice but just one more step in the continuing fall of speculative invoicing in the United States.

    Then I just have to point out how this Judge’s opinions expose so badly the nature of the French Hadopi and the British DEA who force subscribers to be liable for all that happens on their connection. In other words blaming innocent people for events done by a third person.

    There is certainly a whole host of reasons including that tiny 5k proxy task that hackers are known to install on Windows PCs in order to bounce data off of their connection to hide their true IP. Problem there is others can find these open ports and bounce much other data off of this link including BT data. So the HDD on this hacked machine see none of this movie at all.

    Then for all I know an alien spaceship could visit my town tonight and use its super advanced alien technology to hack my wireless router to download “spray my boobs with your chunky cum volume #8″ under a “fair use” scientific exploration of human sexuality.

    Well it is not beyond impossible… So those damned aliens can get innocent you infringement claims.

    • Spock

      Kind of like “First Cumtact” 

      Hang Long and Plaster

    • themerryreaper

      We’ve seen all the porns mate, don’t worry. We got bored with them anyways and have moved on to anal probing.

  • Notroll

    No they can’t.
    A NAT router acts as a gateway for the local devices, and to the outside world all the devices get the same external IP address.

    To the outside world it’s impossible to know which device sent or received a datapacket after it got through the router.

    The only thing certain is that some device behind the router sent and received the data packet. This will remain so until all ISPs assign a  unique IP address to all devices within the consumer’s wireless network.

    This will not happen until IPV6 becomes mainstream.

    The only way from here is pinning liability on the owner of the internet connection.

    The goalpost and the morality of the enforcement paradigm is already moving:It’s no longer about suing those dirty pirates, who we can prove steal our IP, but about suing any intermediary be it an ISP, hosting provider, indexing site, or any end user who can’t lock down his router or who happens to associate with the wrong person using his internet connection.

    • MadAsASnake

       Even IP-V6 if is assigning an IP to each device it still won’t tell you who is at the keyboard.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Bingo. A static IP is not going to help with knowing who is at the keyboard, and there IS such a thing as computer ‘spoofing’.

    • Anonymous

      NAT and dynamic adressing is just too convenient. You’d have to be an idiot to implement ipv6 and start reconfiguring every router and switch in the world to use exclusively static addressing.

      I’d dread the maintenance.

  • Hoddi1

    Most Hotels have wireless these days and what about internet cafes !
    So if you stay in a said hotel for a night or two and download copyright stuff then the owner of said hotel is responsible !
    Same can be said for internet cafes…
     Right on Judge Brown.

    • MadAsASnake

       Funnily enough, the trolls are silent about those…

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  • Anonymous

    The problems not the judges but the lack of understanding that they have, lots the the politicians trying to “solve” piracy by meddling with the internet don’t actually understand how it works or what damage they could cause by tampering with it.

  • Andycapp

    It is sad that it has taken a judge to explain this most basic of ideas known to most people. If anything anyone with a wifi router and a few devices connected to it would understand the problems with most of the claims made by the copyright cartel.
    This should stop all action against every person sharing files online, be they music/movies/tvshows/pictures/books/weblinks  etc etc etc.
    But that would only happen in a democratic country which the US is most definitely not at the moment.
    Hopefully this should help stop the soul sucking greedy psychopaths attempting to prop up a business model that became self destroying many years ago.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Actually, the United States was never a democracy. It was a constitutional republic. I personally feel that it needs to be turned into a constitutional democracy at this point in time.

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  • Anonymous

    A better analogy: a router is like a phone switch. A router allows several computers to share external IP just like a phone switch allows several phones to share an external phone number. If you get a call from a switch number you don’t actually know which specific person behind the switch is calling.

  • Free Internet

    We just had a judgement at the Hight Court of Australia regarding Hollywood trying to make our second biggest ISP responsible for their clients behaviour.  My favourite quotes of those hearings are:
    GUMMOW J: If you cannot work out a remedy, maybe there has not been an abuse of a right.

    It is not enough to say that you are guilty of piracy due to owning a particular Internet access point.”

  • Free Internet

    Therefore, here in Australia, our computers are Internet Access Points.  Think about it.

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  • foff

    My question is:  When will a judge examine the level of alleged infringement?  Under normal conditions when I seed something, if I seed one to one or one to 1.5  how much have I shared?  Depending on size and popularity that could take a hour or two months in either case, the number of infringements is very questionable.  In an unpopular torrent I may have shared it with only one or two,  In a popular one it will still only be a handful as the time connected will have been very short.

    Under either circumstance I may have never seeded a complete copy copy, in fact I probably did not.  So if I seeded only parts of a file and to only a few people at that at most there could only be some contributory infringement.  This is only true if sharing is even infringement at all.  Sharing a tape with a few friends was ok’ed by the court so sharing a limited ratio with a few should also be seen as ok.

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  • NewClear

    Dear RIAA, please:

    1. Get your little red fingers off our internet
    2. Stay out of our lives and quit suing us
    3. Die
    4. Go to hell

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  • fjpoblam

    Well, then, if an iP address is *not* a person, we should *not* worry about the amount of information Google gathers and associates with an IP address, right?

    • Anyone

      Google uses cookies, not (just) IP addresses

      • fjpoblam

        Cookies *containing* and tracking by, IP address, or so they claim. And that’s what they keep “for 18 months” and hash part of, thereafter. An “impersonal” IP address associated with whomever may use your e.g., laptop, right?

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  • http://www.delawareliberal.net/ Joe Cass

    Only a matter of time and money that buys American legislators. Torrent users will be charged as cyber-terrorists. It was bad enough to face the army of lawyers in civil/criminal court; but when these campaign donors get you in federal court, kiss your rights good bye.

  • guest

    RIAA … if you want to go after someone. Get the MAC address of the network card that handled the packet communication. Then take that information to a judge and use what limit knowledge you might have, to convince him/her that this number belongs to individual A living at location B. This is the best way to track network communications to a specific computer. The probelm you will run into is that the MAC address of the computer is not registered anywhere so good luck getting a warrant to invade his/her privacy. But then again, I could download, swap out my card, and any investigation looks like someone hacked into my network.

    • Kr0nZ

      you sir are an idiot, no-one has there PC hooked directly to the internet anymore

      The mac address you are referring to would be the mac of the router

      • Anyone

        and most routers have an option to change that MAC address

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Yep…. I personally have my computer through a router, so does everyone else I know, even if it’s just a modem/router combined deal.

    • Anonymous

       MAC addresses are easily spoofed. Plus, they would have to get a search warrant to find whatever device supposedly has this MAC address. It’s simply not feasible.

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  • http://zapit.nu/EasyCash LazyCash9.Com

    the stupidity of the situation is that the percentage of people that buy
    stuff increases after they have listened to music or watched a movie
    that has been downloaded ‘illegally’ or ‘file shared’ with someone
    already known. if only the entertainment industries would actually take
    notice of FACTS instead of keep trying to convince people of the
    bullshit that they put out. the money that has been lost and payed out
    by the industries trying to maintain control of what is out of their
    control is unbelievable. the money they could have made, if even a
    modicum of foresight and sense had been used, is phenomenal!  Check Header links for earn

  • http://www.facebook.com/TheDegraders Dee Gradee

    I’m a total left-wing tree hugger but I am sick of the people stealing music.  This is a bad decision by the judge.  The majority of the IP addresses identified are undoubtedly one person at home or a family member.  Steal music and movies and lose your internet access.  Only way to save the recording industry.

    • Desu75

      I just chopped down a grove of trees because it pissed me off. Now those trees aren’t blocking my view of Walmart. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BOD6T46O6RYENKPKZKR5NRQS5I jvkla

      Imagine you start a local chapter of Tree Huggers of the International Left Wing in your town.  Imagine you got a little grant, and set up a modest office with a few phones, desks and computers.  You pay for the internet, along with the other utilities, either out of your own money or with the grant.  Now suppose the moron who took your job to answer phones for minimum wage starts getting bored at work and decides to download a little kiddie porn to liven up his day.  It’s your IP, you want that guy’s actions hanging over your head?  Your IP, your kiddie porn.  Think it through.

    • Anyone

      why do you think the recording industry is worth saving?

    • Fredrika

      > “I’m a total left-wing tree hugger but I am sick of the people stealing music.”

      Political views and eventual rage against the forest and it’s trees does not change the fact that music doesn’t constitute property, and it can therefore not be stolen. When people manufacture copies with their own property that they own, as people filesharing does, they most certainly do not steal anything. This indisputable fact can be verified in both law and a dictionary.

      > “This is a bad decision by the judge.”

      On what deeper understading for the legal system do you base this conclusion, that’s supposed to be more believable than that of a judge?

      > “The majority of the IP addresses identified are undoubtedly one person at home or a family member.”

      But one is not responsibly for crimes other family members commit? What are you advocating? That we through the western judicial system out the window and start punishing family members, regardless of who committed an eventual  crime?

      > “Steal music and movies and lose your internet access.”

      If we for a second disregard your ignorance and the fact that people can’t steal music and movies, how would that benefit society? The United Nations and other well educated legal safeguard panels have already come to the conclusion that disconnecting people from the Internet for copyright infringements is a disproportionate response and damaging to society.

      > “Only way to save the recording industry.”

      Save? You seem confused, the revenues in the music industry are currently higher than ever before. There’s no evidence to support the fabricated thesis that on-line non-profit piracy constitutes a problem to either the music industry, creators, culture, the goal with copyright or society.

    • Guest

      I think I know why the real PelouzeTF hasn’t been seen lately. He’s too busy negotiating with CreativeAmerica to get new people under his special desk.

    • Anonymous

      Is that just an attempt at trolling? If so, it’s rather weak.

      1) It’s been proven that over 12% of the ip-adresses “identified” as being part of filesharing networks are, in fact, false. The University of washington proved this conclusively when they started tallying their DMCA cease and decist requests and found that the adressed ip’s were laser printers, routers, or laptops verifiably containing no filesharing software.

      2) In the past cease and decist letters have been sent to hundreds and thousands of people presumed to be perfectly innocent. In some cases because the people had been dead for a long time or didn’t even own computers.

      3) It takes all of five minutes for a teenager able to follow a five-page walkthrough to break the weak protocols of the average wireless router and piggyback on that connection, meaning whatever trace is made will lead back to an innocent neighbor.

      4) Anyone filesharing through a proxy or as part of a darknet will never be providing his own ip number – both traffic and query gets shuttled through layers of encryption and bounced around creating random exit nodes where neither end, middle or origin can see the later or preceding steps.

      In short, you are an idiot. The Judge, however, appears to actually know a bit of the technology involved. His ruling is sound.

      What you are actually saying is that the recording industry has no chance of survival unless we bury the entire idea of “due process”.

    • MadAsASnake

      So 12 year od Johnny downloads a song and dad (who’s job depends on it) looses his job. More of a threat to jobs than the fantasies MAFIAA put out. In most locales, the law has a duty to protect against damaging the rights of innocent parties – idiots like you clearly don’t care about that.

    • http://profiles.google.com/caljrel James Knauer

      How is it “stealing?” In actual theft, the property is no longer yours. When I copy your song, you still have your song. You have it with perfect integrity even if I make a million copies of it. We are in a new age. Your old ways are not going to cut it.

    • Asashii

      and you would know because of your extensive research and education in the matter right!!!

    • Anonymous

      Why do our courts or internet providers have an obligation to save the record industry from obsolescence? 

    • Conservatarian

      So, in forming your opinion, have you read and considered the modern classic, “Against Intellectual Property” by Stephen Kinsella?

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  • Duraiken

    Seen a couple of people commenting on the problem here being this or that particular political party – so far as I’ve been able to tell, there have been party doesn’t matter on an issue like this. Too many politicians will vote for these bills reguardless of their party, either because they believe in the intent behind them, they believe in what they’re being told the bill is for, or they like having cash and/or hefty favors in their pockets and don’t care about the consequences. And I’m willing to be this is true for too many of the politicians currently in Washington DC.

    There’s a lot the companies angry over losing their copyrights could be doing to protect their products from being put into filesharing networks, but they seem to think it’s not worth it, and would rather get laws put into place that, ultimately, won’t mean much. The Internet pirates will just get better at hiding their piracy and everyone else will suffer. To some degree, it’s already happening. A few years ago, many “Pirate Communties” supplying pirated digital or digitalized productswere open to whoever could find them, but with so many of those communities being shot down by legal writs and such, a lot of them are going to go underground, and likely become “invitation only,” selling their products to people they can trust not to sell them out, and likely use the network of an innocent bystander to pawn off any chance of getting caught.

    If the companies really want to protect their products, they should be working harder on the security placed on the products themselves. For many digital products, a simple activation code is all that’s needed, and for many songs and movies, not even that is necessary. Better protection on these products will solve many problems. It’ll just take money spent on researching and inventing new security measures. That’s a much better use for the money being used to bribe Washington DC if you ask me.

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  • Stemitchell

    Sense? At last?!

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  • Anonymous

    Its about time dem kangaroo court judges got it right!
    Privacy-Guys.tk

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  • Dsdwsd

    This can not have happened in nazi America… something fishy is going on.
     

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  • Pete

     Quote from the article :
    “Suing BitTorrent users is fine, especially one at a time”

    Really ?
    It’s fine to sue file-sharers ??
    What is this, MAFIAAfreak.com ???

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  • Idreammyworld

    I have a total of 7 devices on my network, and I live in a three story apartment. At any time I’ve got just about everyone trying to hack my wifi, ’cause no one here wants to pay for their own. 

    So yeah, it happens. 

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  • Toy

    I’ve often wondered where humanity would be if cave dwellers decided that the stuff they pained on their walls could not be shared.. delays in such things as fire, spears, knives, hunting in packs, and all manner of survival tips.

    Flash forward to today, where new concepts, forward looking ideas, and different ways of seeing things is “protected” and unless you PAY, you are disenfranchised.

  • Toy

    I’ve often wondered where humanity would be if cave dwellers decided that the stuff they pained on their walls could not be shared.. delays in such things as fire, spears, knives, hunting in packs, and all manner of survival tips.

    Flash forward to today, where new concepts, forward looking ideas, and different ways of seeing things is “protected” and unless you PAY, you are disenfranchised.

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  • Anonymous

    Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows an IP isn’t guaranteed to be unique to a person heck what if someone was leeching off your connection, should u be liable for their actions? or if you share an IP with several people, just throw them all in jail? 

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  • Jack37

    There is also the argument that ISP have dynamic ip addresses so they would have to prove that the ip address in question was assigned to the accused device. Just the isp saying that it was is not enough evidence to prove that. It is very difficult to actually prove that the ip address was assigned to the individual at the specified time of the infringing actions, technically speaking. Even then they have to prove that the specified ip address, was actually involved in infringing actions. This would be especially difficult because being on an illegal torrent of a specific name does not prove that the ip address was infringing any copyright. They would have to prove that the ip address finished the download, was seeding it and that the content of the download was in fact an illegal download at the time of the alleged infringement. Proving that the IP address was not just downloading a fake movie of the same name as the alleged infringing material would prove to be technically difficult.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Buford-Doyle/741636924 Buford Doyle

    Sorry about the spelling errors.  I’m usually more careful.

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  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JKEVUONDQYVPDMXAFVODJVER7M Thomas

    as Virginia explained I’m taken by surprise that you able to make $6646 in one month on the computer. have you seen this webpage  (Click on menu Home more information)  http://goo.gl/lFtsZ  

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  • I0qq0i

    It’s funny how this judge thinks that people who download illegal stuff only download porn movies :) Anyway, I think it’s great that he gave his support to reason, but I fear that the “entertainment” industry will insist that the IP address holder be obligated to find and exclude the infringer from their network. Just as they made the ISP give shit to IP holders. So there. And if YOU want to contribute, stop sharing Hollywood crap and share something useful – independent artists, books, freeware, articles…. Hollywood crap is just  1%, if that, of the content. Let’s make it 0%. And also, use Adblock for Firefox, don’t let ads mess up your internets.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VJ64RGEOH7XCULUXBWAIIIE4MU Ranting Loons

      I think THIS specific case was in regards to a porno movie, hence the continued references.

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  • Marineone_bravo

    when are we gonna stop the american telling us what to do in our own home,the american should stop sticking their nose in our business this is why people hate americans,

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  • Conservatarian

    In the final analysis, the magistrate judge GRANTED the motion for the plaintiff porn purveyors to get the information they wanted, one per complaint, but the information would be filtered by the magistrate apparently in an effort to protect an innocent IP owner.

    In more detail, the issue involved a motion to issue subpoenas to obtain IP addresses from third party providers of Internet services and John Doe motions to quash. The court noted that based upon recent history, it was estimated that only 30% of the eventual offenders were the actual IP address owner. That would seem to support a finding that an IP owner’s identity should be protected, because that identity is, more likely than not, not the offender. That was not the basis of the court’s ruling, however.

    Actually, the ruling allowed the requested discovery, but only as to the first-named John Doe defendant in each of four complaints. The magistrate denied the “swarm joinder” of hundreds of others, because (1) of abusive litigation tactics by the plaintiffs and (2) the swarm joinder appeared to be an attempt to avoid multiple filing fees. The information that the magistrate permitted to be discovered was limited and to be provided under seal (confidentially) to the court, not the plaintiff, to be provided to counsel at a status conference. 

    The abusive litigation tactics were a refusal by the plaintiff’s to receive evidence of innocence of the IP owner, instead demanding $2900 in settlement with no discussion. This was after the defendant John Doe offered up his or her computer for examination as proof of innocence. 

    The decision is an interesting read.

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  • dante

    puto gobierno de eeeuu

  • http://www.axj.com AXJ ®

    Finally a Judge that understands we are innocent until proven guilty. -AXJ

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  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FT6JILJRAHSRBH5H57S5TORFMY Dianna

    what Benjamin replied I am taken by surprise that someone can earn $9333 in 4 weeks on the computer. did you see this web site  (Click on menu Home more information)   http://goo.gl/Qgsg5  

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  • Anonymous

    One of the articles on this site estimated that if all of the bittorrent users moved to netflix the studios would only get around $60 million a year more.

    The could charge $1 extra a year for  smart phones and  internet access which would generate maybe $300 million a year and make downloading legal and generate extra money for them. 

    Even $1 extra a month giving them around $3 billion extra a year would probably be OK with consumers.

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  • MSEXITN0W

    An IP-Address in of itself still leaves doubt as to who really is on the other side of the computer until doubt can be eliminated what case can really be tried??? within the USA Judicial system.

  • http://www.carloanstoday.com/ Tami Bledsoe

    The problem, however, is that the person listed as the account holder is
    often not the person who downloaded the infringing material.

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