Music Industry Threatens to Bankrupt Pirate Party Members (Updated)

Ernesto
December 15, 2012
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Music industry group the BPI has threatened legal action against six members of the UK Pirate Party, after the party refused to take its Pirate Bay proxy offline. BPI seems to want to hold the individual members of the party responsible for copyright infringements that may occurs via the proxy, which puts them at risk of personal bankruptcy. Pirate Party leader Loz Kaye criticized the latest music industry threats and reiterated that blocking The Pirate Bay is a disproportionate measure.

bpi After an expensive legal battle a group of music labels achieved their aim of having The Pirate Bay website blocked in the UK.

With the official site blocked, millions of users switched over to proxy services, and the proxy of the UK Pirate Party soon became one of the most visited websites in the region.

These proxies are a thorn in the side of the music industry, and earlier this month the BPI asked the UK Pirate Party to take its website offline. The Pirate Party refused to do so, and in a response the BPI’s boss said that the Pirate Party would hear from their lawyers.

The BPI kept its word, but with a twist.

Instead of targeting just the Pirate Party, the BPI’s solicitors are now threatening legal action against six individual members. Aside from its leader Loz Kaye, the BPI also sent threats to four other members of the National Executive and the party’s head of IT.

“We had been anticipating legal action ever since I received an email from Geoff Taylor of the BPI. What has taken me aback is that this threat is personally directed. I simply can not see what the music industry think can be positively gained by threatening to bankrupt me and other party officers,” Kaye says.

Making the site’s members personally liable is the ultimate pressure, as they then have all their personal belongings – including their family homes – on the line. Kaye is disappointed with the BPI’s move, not least because the music industry group refused to negotiate the issue.

“Throughout, the party and I have been open to dialogue. Contrary to reports I offered to meet Geoff Taylor for discussion, but this has been rebuffed, at this point we are talking with our legal advisers and will respond to the solicitors in due course. The Pirate Party’s political position remains this – site blocking is disproportionate and ineffective.”

TorrentFreak asked Kaye about the precise nature of the legal threats and whether any cases have been filed yet, but he said that he’s not able to add more to the statements above. Previously, Kay told us that he would stand by his principles, even if that means going to court.

“It is clear that we are facing a significant threat, and we will have to fight it. And fight it well, not just for the sake of the Pirate Party, but because of the principles at stake. I have always believed that it is not just enough to have principles, you need to act on them too, even if it gets difficult,” Kaye told us last weekend.

The problem with fighting the BPI in court is that it’s a costly endeavor. The Pirate Party is currently running a fund-raiser so it can afford to fight back, but if the case drags on the money is bound to dry up at some point.

Update: BPI’s Adam Liversage told TorrentFreak that they had no other option than to go after individual members as the Pirate Party is not a “legal personality.” No direct threats were made to bankrupt any of the members.

“Our solicitors then wrote to PPUK’s National Executive seeking legal undertakings that they would remove the proxy. ‘Pirate Party UK’ as an entity cannot give undertakings – it has no form of legal personality and it isn’t incorporated – so the proper legal course is to write to the members of PPUK’s National Executive personally.”

“The subsequent allegation made by Loz Kaye that BPI has “threatened” him or other party officers with ‘bankruptcy’ is completely untrue. BPI has not threatened Pirate Party UK officers with bankruptcy.”

Liversage further said that BPI first tried to resolve the matter amicably for a number of weeks. However, Pirate Party UK continued to make clear that they had no intention of removing the proxy.

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NoMoreNOMOREyouhearme?

that’s just plain low
- http://www.facebook.com/jdbinion Jeff Binion
  
  Stealing music is “just plain low”.
  - Guest
    
    How can it be stealing when the person who is claiming theft still has the original.
  - djnforce9
    
    Perhaps “stealing” music is low but non-commercial piracy and file sharing isn’t stealing anything.
  - Anyone
    
    noone is stealing music, so what’s your point?
  - BuddhaFacePalmed
    
    How does one steal music anyway?? Once I hear a piece of music without permission, does that mean someone, somewhere, is deprived of music??
    - Guest
      
      YES. You pirate a Judas Priest track, then suddenly some metalhead’s bedreem goes silent and he’s like “what the fuck?”
      
      QUIT STEALING MUSIC YOU GUYS
  - Fredrika
    
    > “Stealing music is “just plain low”. “
    
    Manufacturing something(as people filesharing does with copies) is not stealing, not according to the law nor according to physics, proper use of language or logics.
    - D3T
      
      I despise people who think that they’re not in the wrong and then try to defend themselves with shitty semantics.
      
      Infringing might not be stealing but you obtain something for free that cost someone else money to make and that’s a really shit thing to do.
      
      /rant
    - Guest
      
      Oh man, Christmas must be the shittiest holiday ever. All those people getting things for free that cost someone else money to make…
    - D3T
      
      Please tell me that you’re not comparing gifts to copyright infringement?
    - Anyone
      
      why not?
    - D3T
      
      There’s a distinct difference between someone buying something and giving it away and someone buying something and then handing out copies of it to thousands of people they do not know.
    - Anyone
      
      what’s the difference?
      in any case the person getting the gift does not buy it and is a “lost sale”
      
      If I watch a DVD with some friends am I also stealing?
    - D3T
      
      It just wrote what the difference is, if you’re not able to comprehend that one of those are wrong then there’s no point to this argument.
      
      And no, you’re certainly not stealing by watching a film with your friends. But watching a film with your friends is not comparable to handing out copies to them while you also get to keep a copy so i don’t see what you’re getting at.
    - Anyone
      
      again, what’s the difference between sharing a movie with friends in front of the TV between sharing it over the internet?
      
      the concept is exactly the same, one paid, multiple people watched, by your reasoning they are all “lost sales” and should have paid
      
      why is one OK in your mind and the other not?
    - D3T
      
      I see what you’re saying and yes the concept is the same except on a much larger scale. But in my mind it’s just not right for one person to share something he/she bought with thousands of people who then doesn’t have to pay for that something.
    - Anyone
      
      so you want to restrict my property rights?
      why?
    - D3T
      
      Because the world doesn’t work the way you want it to. If you everyone did this there would be no new content for people like you to share or for people like me to buy.
      
      I’m all for sharing but there needs to be a limit to it, or restriction if you want to call it that.
    - Anyone
      
      if you are right FOSS wouldn’t work
      and it certainly wouldn’t power most of the internet
      
      as it stands, you are wrong, even when people can copy it for free it still thrives
    - Freedom of Speech
      
      That is pure bullshit. Next you’ll be telling us that there is no such thing as free software and that LibreOffice doesn’t exist. Creativity does not require money. People create because it gives them pleasure to do so.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      “I’m all for sharing but there needs to be a limit to it, or restriction if you want to call it that”
      
      Exactly, the limit is reselling copies for profit, sharing is non profit so within that limit. However earning money with a website linking to links that link to to file that link to locations that might contain data,… and not charging your customers but getting revenue from adds, is totally within those limits; you create the website and are being paid for the website being visited, not the content offered. so…
    - http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole
      
      @19448615e57d302fa7eb9307d17f4be9:disqus @flphpp:disqus
      
      You guys are mean. Like a cat with an injured mouse, batting it back and forth.
      
      I love it ;)
    - Guest
      
      And no, you’re certainly not stealing by watching a film with your friends. But watching a film with your friends is not comparable to handing out copies to them while you also get to keep a copy so i don’t see what you’re getting at.
      
      The logic here is simple, by watching it with friends, you’re depriving the MPAA of a potential lost sale by X equals how many friends you have on your sofa.
      
      By making copies for your friends instead, you’re actually depriving yourself of monies for DVD+Rs so you actually lose something, unless you are transferring them online of course.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      You mean “between giving it away” and “handing out copies of it to thousands of people they don’t know”. Not much as it happens.
    - asd
      
      you are an idiot and you have a closed mind..
    - D3T
      
      Care to elaborate or was that it? Anyone can insult another person without explaining why.
    - Anyone
      
      so if I build my own table with my own materials I suddenly owe Ikea money?
    - D3T
      
      Let’s switch that shitty comparison around; are you able to reproduce every single song you’ve ever downloaded? And no just pressing ctrl+c does not count. That’s not how producing something works.
    - Anyone
      
      me personally? no.
      but my computer can
      
      but what’s wrong with using the tools available?
      that’s like saying “can you build a table without using a hammer or a saw?”
      it’s a stupid restriction
    - D3T
      
      How is building your own table (buying the materials, the tools etc) comparable to copying a tune? You get something out of it without putting any sort of effort into it while someone who deserves compensation for what they’ve made and what you now enjoy gets nothing in return.
    - Anyone
      
      I paid for the computer I do the copying on (I even paid a levy to the local MAFIAA), I pay for the electricity and the internet
      the “blueprint” is provided for free by nice people
      
      so I have acquired everything I need to create a copy of my own
      
      how is that NOT the same as making my own table out of wood? (except that that is harder, mostly because I lack the building skills ;))
    - D3T
      
      I still don’t think that it’s comparable, and the fact that you pay for you internet access and electricity is irrelevant.
      
      Let me put it this way; by downloading a copy of something that is copyright protected you benefit no one but yourself, you put no effort in and get something out of it anyway. And as someone who was raised to pay for myself and acknowledge other peoples hard work that’s a really shit thing to do.
      
      I’m just curious, what’s your stance on 3D-printers? What if you were able to just print that IKEA table?
    - Anyone
      
      of course I benefit only myself, just like when I build a table for myself
      that’s the whole point
      I make a copy for myself. the only people that are able to demand anything in return for that effort are the people that sold me my computer, the electricity, the internet and the “blueprint”. I either paid for that or no money was asked for it
      
      If I were able to just print the table it’s the same argument, I paid for the printer and the materials used, so why should Ikea be able to demand anything?
      
      I hope that I can download a car in my lifetime ;)
    - D3T
      
      So what would be the incentive for companies like IKEA to make new stuff? Or any company for that matter? If everyone thought like this there would be no content to copy.
    - Anyone
      
      so noone develops Linux? or Apache?
      and there are no paid closed source alternatives like Windows or IIS?
      
      the principle works even with the possibilities of free unlimited copies
    - Fredrika
      
      > “So what would be the incentive for companies like IKEA to make new
      stuff? Or any company for that matter?”
      
      Mankind, society and entrepreneurs invented and made new stuff long before legislative monopolies came in to play. if they wanna make money they have to invent new stuff. Legislative monopolies or not does not change that fundamentle fact of how business works.
      
      > “If everyone thought like this
      there would be no content to copy.”
      
      Both history and the present proves that thesis wrong. Ever heard of open source, designer clothes or the part of history that existed before copyright monopolies and patents came into play?
    - Fredrika
      
      > “And as someone who was raised to pay for myself and acknowledge other peoples hard work that’s a really shit thing to do.”
      
      You were raised to pay for things that are free, and oppose capitalism and the free market?
      
      > “I’m just curious, what’s your stance on 3D-printers? What if you were able to just print that IKEA table?”
      
      What’s your stance on food replication? Do you feel that ending world starvation shouldn’t be allowed when technology allows it, so that some farmers can continue to make money?
      
      You really need to read up on the concept of legislative monopolies, why society uses them and who’s supposed to be the beneficiary.
    - Pelham123
      
      I think it’s interesting when people download a copy of something that is copyright protected without compensating the writer
      and then post that downloading is wrong. You’re entitled to take any moral position you want, but
      we expect you to follow it.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Are you suggesting that we should ban 3d printers to keep IKEA happy? BTW, if I could print whatever table I wanted, why would I print IKEA?
    - Fredrika
      
      > “How is building your own table (buying the materials, the tools etc) comparable to copying a tune? “
      
      Manufacturing something is manufacturing something. That technology has made certain manufacturing cheaper and more effective does not change that fundamental fact.
      
      > “You get something out of it without putting any sort of effort into it while someone who deserves compensation for what they’ve made and what you now enjoy gets nothing in return.”
      
      On the free market the only entrepreneur that deserves compensation is the one who sells something. In your example that has not happened, and therefore he deserves nothing.
      
      But maybe you are advocating communism or a planned economy?
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      “But maybe you are advocating communism or a planned economy?”
      
      Fredrika, I agree with a lot of your comments but this remark gives Communism a bad name hehe :D
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Fredrika, I agree with a lot of your comments..”
      
      Not all??????? This immediately puts you on my hit list!! If you see a red dot, run!! Don’t do as cats and try to catch it!! =)
      
      > “..but this remark gives Communism a bad name hehe :D”
      
      It should be noted that i’m not saying communism is wrong, i’m just trying to figure out what economic system these anti-pirates base their reasoning on, because it’s definitely not capitalism or the free market.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      :D
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Before someone invented the table, do you think that the design of a table was obvious? When we make the table are we not stealing the design idea from the creator of the design?
    - Fredrika
      
      > “And no just pressing ctrl+c does not count. That’s not how producing something works.”
      
      That’s exactly how manufacturing copies work.
    - ThumbsUpThumbsDown
      
      The real question is whether 100 years from now a few legally protected corporate Monopolies will stll be allowed to throw up Toll Booths on the Intellectual Property distribution channels; and, call anyone who passes those toll booths a thief.
      
      Most democratic citizens would rather tell both you and your toll booths to go fuck yourselves today, rather than wait another 99 years.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Only if it has a top and 4 legs.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      I
      despise people who think that “semantics are trivial but can get you in
      the same time into jail while being innocent. when you do not obey the
      semantic rules.”
      
      No I don’t feel to explain this to intellectual inferior people that think semantics are shitty. hehe
    - Fredrika
      
      > “I despise people who think that they’re not in the wrong..”
      
      Funny thing, i didn’t comment on what i personally and subjectively felt was right or wrong, now did i?
      
      > “..and then try to defend themselves with shitty semantics.”
      
      With that comment you only prove that you don’t understand how society and legislation works. People own the property they manufacture copies with, ownership if that property already justifies use of it.
      
      The only thing that actually should be justified is the prohibitions in law, and in this case the copyright monopolies intrusion into peoples property rights, that forbids them from doing with it as they wish(manufacturing something that has worth to them). In your semantics you try to impose reversed burden of proof regarding which party that has the responsibility to justify things, and advocating reversed burden of proof is something that’s generally considered shitty.
      
      > “Infringing might not be stealing..”
      
      Might? Rest assured it isn’t in any way, neither legislatively, logically, physically or linguistically.
      
      > “..but you obtain something for free..”
      
      Free is always the price when you manufacture something yourself, no other price is possible, the price is not up for discussion. Commenting on a natural price that can be nothing else is rather illogical semantics.
      
      > “..that cost someone else money to make..”
      
      All entrepreneurs chose of their own free will to invest time and money into their work, that’s their responsibility alone, never the responsibility of someone else. It sounds as if you’re trying to guilt people into feeling responsibility for things that aren’t their responsibility in the first place? That’s rather dishonest.
      
      > “..and that’s a really shit thing to do.”
      
      What you’re really objecting to here is capitalism and the free market. But of course many people do feel that capitalism and the free market is a shitty thing. Maybe you are advocating communism or a planned economy?
    - D3T
      
      >“Funny thing, i didn’t comment on what i personally and subjectively felt was right or wrong, now did i?”
      
      I’m sorry for assuming how you feel about this. And i’m sorry for insulting you. I was in a shitty mood.
      
      >“People own the property they manufacture copies with, ownership if that property already justifies use of it.”
      
      The original creators own the rights to distribute and make new copies. It is not your right as a consumer to decide if that content should be available for free through you by making copies yourself.
      
      >“Free is always the price when you manufacture something yourself”
      
      I’m not following, if you manufacture a car by yourself it’ll certainly cost, if you however copy a song or something similar it costs you nothing.
      
      >“All entrepreneurs chose of their own free will to invest time and money into their work, that’s their responsibility alone, never the responsibility of someone else. It sounds as if you’re trying to guilt people into feeling responsibility for things that aren’t their responsibility in the first place? That’s rather dishonest.”
      
      How can you say that someone who buys something from that entrepreneur, makes copies of it, and then distributes new copies for free isn’t responsible when that entrepreneur fails because he wasn’t making any profit?
      
      >“You were raised to pay for things that are free, and oppose capitalism and the free market?”
      
      I was raised to pay for things that you are supposed to pay for. What i mean is that if i can get a hold of something for free through someone who bought that something i would still pay the original creator/distributor.
    - Anyone
      
      “I’m not following, if you manufacture a car by yourself it’ll certainly cost, if you however copy a song or something similar it costs you nothing.”
      
      in both cases it costs you materials and time
      
      you can of course charge yourself something for the time you spent building a car/making a copy, but that is silly
      
      “How can you say that someone who buys something from that entrepreneur, makes copies of it, and then distributes new copies for free isn’t responsible when that entrepreneur fails because he wasn’t making any profit?”
      
      a good example in the real world is the bottled water industry
      
      you’d think a good that everyone has in their home for free (or near free) would not be able to be sold at 1€ for the litre, but reality proofs that that is possible
      
      so that is an example of an industry that can survive despite everyone having access to unlimited water at home
      
      “I was raised to pay for things that you are supposed to pay for. What i mean is that if i can get a hold of something for free through someone who bought that something i would still pay the original creator/distributor.”
      
      so if I give you a DVD for christmas you feel obliged to buy that DVD? why?
    - D3T
      
      That water example really helps me understand this a bit better, thanks.
      
      >“so if I give you a DVD for christmas you feel obliged to buy that DVD? why?”
      
      No, because you would already have payed for it. It would however be wrong if you made a copy, gave it to me and kept the original yourself. Suddenly two people have access to something that has only been payed for once. That just doesn’t seem fair to me.
    - Anyone
      
      so you’ll refuse to watch it with me?
      after all two people will watch it, yet only one has paid
    - D3T
      
      That’s not the same thing, you have access to the movie when you feel like it while i’d only be able to watch it at your place.
      
      If we both had a copy we’d both be able to watch it whenever and while that would be nice but to me, again, it just isn’t fair when only your copy is bought and payed for.
    - Anyone
      
      not many movies are worth being watched more than once, so in reality it doesn’t really make a difference if we both watch at the same time or different times.
      
      anyway, what about tv shows?
      I pay for cable, yet I never watch it, but I download the shows
      is that acceptable for you?
    - D3T
      
      Yes, you’re paying for the content and should be able to watch it when it suits you.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Yes, you’re paying for the content and should be able to watch it when it suits you.”
      
      Again, read up on the fundamentals, in this case consumer legislation and basic economics. You can only pay for goods or services, but content constitutes neither. Content is what goods or servies can be built up around the use of, but you can never pay for the content in itself.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Interesting… MAFIAA have been dead set against this… even though we all have the tech to do it.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “again, it just isn’t fair when only your copy is bought and payed for.”
      
      Both copies are indeed paid for, unless no one paid for the optical media or the hard drive the copies now exist on?
    - Jem Dew
      
      “That’s not the same thing, you have access to the
      movie when you feel like it while i’d only be able to watch it at your place.
      
      If
      we both had a copy we’d both be able to watch it whenever and while
      that would be nice but to me, again, it just isn’t fair when only your
      copy is bought and payed for”.
      
      That has no sense at all, so
      parents should buy many copies for all their children? If not, they
      mustn’t be able to watch a movie or hear a song, am I right?
      
      If you’re going to visit your friend to watch that movie a lot of times, that would be fine for you, no?
      
      Now
      I suppose if a kid bought a toy, he can’t borrow it to his friends,
      they didn’t buy anything after all, that poor child, he won’t be
      popular, that egoism, but morality comes first. Thanks for your advice,
      I’ll just have one kid, because, I don’t know if I will be able to buy 2
      identical toys all time for both of them.
      
      You’re being fanatic and all the things you said are just sounding like self-righteousness.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Suddenly two people have access to something that has only been payed for once.”
      
      You need to read up on basic economics, consumer legislation and copyright. You do not pay for access to the creative work or any right to enjoy it, you pay for the good, as in the copy.
      
      > “That just doesn’t seem fair to me.”
      
      Capitalism and property rights are unfair to you? Ok.
    - D3T
      
      >“You need to read up on basic economics, consumer legislation and copyright. You do not pay for access to the creative work or any right to enjoy it, you pay for the good, as in the copy.”
      
      Yes! You pay for the goods, but if i make a copy of that goods and give it to my friend then he hasn’t payed for the goods. Is there something i’m not understanding here? How is it not wrong that two persons now have the goods yet only one of them has payed for it?
    - Anyone
      
      of course he hasn’t paid, you gave it to him for free
      
      you could of course charge him, but then we get into for profit copyright infringement, and in that case I agree with you, that’s not moral
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Yes! You pay for the goods, but if i make a copy of that goods and give
      it to my friend then he hasn’t payed for the goods.”
      
      Indeed someone has paid for either the optical media that the copy was burned on or the hard drive that is was magnetized on.
      
      > “Is there something
      i’m not understanding here?”
      
      A great deal it seems.
      
      > “How is it not wrong that two persons now
      have the goods yet only one of them has payed for it?”
      
      All the goods have been paid for. And again, if we disregard that you got in wrong in your example, and rewrite it to reality, you are still arguing that capitalism and the free market is wrong, and that simply because an entrepreneur has chosen of his own free will to invest time and money into something, he now deserves money without making any sales.
      
      Either you admit to being against capitalism and the free market, or you should stop commenting completely until you have read up on the fundamental basics regarding copyright, legislative monopolies, consumer legislation and how the free market works, because as it is now nothing you write makes any sense, it only proves your rather huge ignorance regrading the topic you’re commenting on.
    - D3T
      
      >“Either you admit to being against capitalism and the free market, or you should stop commenting completely until you have read up on the fundamental basics regarding copyright, legislative monopolies, consumer legislation and how the free market works, because as it is now nothing you write makes any sense, it only proves your rather huge ignorance regrading the topic you’re commenting on.”
      
      I will. One more thing though, while the DVD or whatever has been paid for the content on the DVD (songs, a movie etc) has only been paid for once and then copied, why is that fair?
      
      Just ignore this question if you’ve answered it already, i’m going to read through the replies more thoroughly tomorrow when it isn’t so late.
      
      Also, would Wikipedia be a good place to start reading up on the stuff you’ve mentioned?
    - Anyone
      
      because the content has no value
      you cannot sell content, you cannot buy content, you can only sell and buy goods and services
    - Fredrika
      
      > “One more thing though, while the DVD or whatever has been paid for the content on the DVD (songs, a movie etc) has only been paid for once..”
      
      No, zero times, because you can never pay for content.
      
      > “..and then copied, why is that fair?”
      
      That’s an dishonest question that reverses the order of society. People have already paid for the goods that they manufacture the copy with, it’s theirs, they own it. Property rights, free market rules and capitalism makes it fair.
      
      The real question is why is it fair to impose a legislative monopoly on people and their property rights, that forbids them from manufacturing things with their own property?
      
      The answer to that question is it can be if it furthers the goal with copyright on a conceptual level, and if the monopoly constitutes a proportionate intrusion into people human rights.
      
      But then you have to understand that copyright does not exist out of principle or to create a subjectively perceived amount fairness, so your rant about fair only proves that you don’t know what copyright is to begin with, or why society uses legislative monopolies.
      
      And when you learn what copyright is, and ask yourself that question again, the answer is that it isn’t fair to forbid manufacturing of copies in a non-profit manner, because society has no proven need for that prohibition today. As such, the only unfair thing is the copyright monopoly.
      
      > “Also, would Wikipedia be a good place to start reading up on the stuff you’ve mentioned?”
      
      Possibly.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      It would seem to me that this is maximising the benefit. There is no genuine scarcity here is there?
    - Pelham123
      
      DST, the original comment was that it was wrong to “obtain something for free that cost someone
      else money.” It didn’t say anything about copies.
      
      Free TV, cable TV, radio, nightclubs, music played at parties, groups watching a DVD, a family watching pay per view – all examples of two people having access to something that has only been paid for once.
      
      You can argue that taking responsibility for making sure artists are paid is the right thing to do, like tipping a waiter. You can argue that it’s the only effective way to vote for more of the same.
      
      But you’re not going to be able to argue that copying itself is wrong, especially not on a computer. If it weren’t for automatic copying, we wouldn’t be able to have this conversation. And you definitely cannot ever say that copying is or should be illegal.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “And i’m sorry for insulting you.”
      
      Rest assured you couldn’t insult me even if you tried.
      
      > “I was in a shitty mood.”
      
      Maybe you should learn from that and never again comment when you’re in a shitty mood?
      
      > “The original creators own the rights to distribute and make new copies.”
      
      In some countries under some circumstances, yes, the copyright monopoly privileges the copyright holder with that unnatural control. Not all.
      
      > “It is not your right as a consumer to decide if that content should be available for free through you by making copies yourself.”
      
      I’ve never commented on what might be legally prohibited in some countries.
      
      > “I’m not following, if you manufacture a car by yourself it’ll certainly cost..”
      
      No. Buying parts and tools might, not the manufacturing in itself.
      
      > “..if you however copy a song or something similar it costs you nothing.”
      
      Correct, but you commented on that price as if it should or could ever be something else?
      
      > “How can you say that someone who buys something from that entrepreneur, makes copies of it, and then distributes new copies for free isn’t responsible when that entrepreneur fails because he wasn’t making any profit?”
      
      Because he isn’t. The responsibility for making sales always fall on the entrepreneur alone on the free market. That he’s subjected to competition does not change that fact, even if competition is banned through a legislative monopoly. The problem in your example was that the entrepreneur tried to sell something that holds no economical value. No economically sane person would buy something so worthless.
      
      > “I was raised to pay for things that you are supposed to pay for.”
      
      You were raised to pay for something that is free? If you do not buy anything, there’s nothing to pay for, regardless of how you were raised.
      
      > “What i mean is that if i can get a hold of something for free through someone who bought that something i would still pay the original creator/distributor.”
      
      Since no sale has taken place in your example, there’s no payment possible. What you seem to be taking about is charity or making donations because you feel sorry for some weak failed entrepreneur that has failed to make any sales.
    - Pelham123
      
      “Infringing might not be stealing”
      
      So her argument is not semantics, then, is it.
      
      And I could say that “you obtain something for free that cost someone else money” is what every kid does at Christmas, but I won’t.
      
      Instead, I’ll ask you about why you posted to defend a troll who you know is a psycho. If it’s really a shit thing to do, why not describe it accurately?
      
      Shoplifters aren’t accused of rape. That’s how you know shoplifting is wrong – the accusers don’t lie about what happened.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Marginal Cost of said copy is zero. First year economics. Cost of production is pretty much fixed. You need to work out how many you are going to sell – then get out there and sell them. There are three ways piracy can change this equation:
      - When someone downloads INSTEAD of buying [the lost sale - it is only a lost sale if they would have bought it, most pirates wouldn't]
      - It can promote a performer to new listeners. This gives smart performers new opportunities to make money – often ignored. Now, isn’t promotion what you folks sign away almost all your rights away to MAFIAA for?
      - and the third – is when a “pirate” likes it enough to go out and buy it… and this happens more than you think…
      So wake up and sort out a sensible business model. You’ll find it a lot more satisfying than insulting people.
  - Andrew me
    
    so every time you play music and someone else hears it you are a thief, well done
    - Anonymous
      
      so every time you play music and someone else hears it you are a thief, well done
      
      Indeed, I wasn’t aware that I had to pay the RIAA money everytime some kid drives by with his car subwoofer volume turned all the way to 11.
  - TerribleTony
    
    Yeah, those darn pirates are worse than radio!
  - rmwebs
    
    Last I checked there were millions of public domain files distributed by torrent. Opensource software such as Linux distros and such rely on torrents to work.
    
    Funny how they have yet to sue Google. Google is the biggest illegal file discovery system.
  - Blah
    
    Sharing is not stealing.
  - Kk
    
    you know this is torrentfreak.com right?
  - http://www.facebook.com/johnny.green.37201 Johnny Green
    
    Sooo if i d/l 39% of it.. does it mean i stole 39% of the song?
    
    ( imagine a vinyl in a store.. smashed into bits.. and i collect 39% of the fragments, what sum will the clerk charge me? ) .. stop deluding yourself
  - http://www.facebook.com/johnny.green.37201 Johnny Green
    
    USA uses Africa’s recources, Africans starve yet Americans are supersized… Thats the example i follow when it comes to sharing 1′s & 0′s.
- Hitman
  
  the only ones stealing anything r the bpi an I say shoot da shit heads an be done with it
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004459093599 Varghese Paul
  
  Visit : http://freakhacks.blogspot.in/ for best hacking tips n tricks!!
IDIOCRACY

So the pirate party should get some members that are layers so they (want to) work for free, or they should get a layer that wants to do the case for free and use the attention as personal advertisement, he should win of course.
- http://www.facebook.com/jdbinion Jeff Binion
  
  It’s Lawyer, not layer. And again, seems you want someone to WORK FOR FREE. You want free music and then a lawyer to defend you for free when you’re called out for stealing it. Get a life and a job, then you can pay for the music you like and want to listen to.
  - Liam JH
    
    What has been proven is that ‘Pirates’ are the biggest purchasers of media – i.e they buy more.
    Home taping killed the music industry in the 70′s – no.
    Failure to adapt means death.
  - Guest
    
    If anyone needs music for free just go to youtube and download the videos with a video grabber and if anyone has a problem with that then go and sue Google for making the content available.
    - Anyone
      
      Viacom tried that
      ask them how they are doing ;)
  - onions
    
    Incase you hadn’t noticed, people are out of jobs because the people in the high paid jobs keep sacking the lower paid people just to maintain their high premium life style and then wonder why markets collapse because no one can afford to pay for the products they used to.
  - Fredrika
    
    > “And again, seems you want someone to WORK FOR
    FREE.”
    
    All entrepreneurs work for free, since they aren’t employed. Only employees work for pay.
    
    > “You want free music..”
    
    Any person economically sane would want things for free if that was possible. Not wanting that would make you economically insane.
  - Guest
    
    @facebook-1412125544:disqus
    
    IDIOCRACY suggested that The Pirate Party should seek out free lawyers so they don’t get bankrupted by court costs, you illiterate child.
    
    Not because “ERRYTHING SHULD JUS B FREE LOL”.
  - Andrew me
    
    I hope you are going to pay me for this comment, i an now stating that it is copyrighted and i give a licence to everyone apart from you, now i am going to allow you to buy a licence, it will cost you £1 million, so pay up thief for stealing my work, my time and my money. Damn thief. Please send the £1 million to the site admins, i am sure they will get the money to me, and i authorise them to take 50% to further fund this site and to donate any they do not use to any copyright non profit organisation.
    
    And the reason i am charging you specifically is because you say you want to pay for consuming others creations.
    
    Just to give the comment more content here is a little argument for you, but remember each response will cost you £200 000
    
    If i have a cd with copyright music on it and i give that cd to someone else is that theft.
    If i take that cd and copy it to my computer , is that theft.
    If i then destroy the original cd i purchased is the copied content still mine or illegal to listen to.
    If i give a copy of this legal copy to a friend is it illegal,
    
    If it is illegal why was it not illegal to give the cd in the first place.
    
    There is a lot i could discuss with you but i am sure if you wish to pay further for my insight then you will pay up the £1 million you are stealing from me by reading my content. Note i will only read your next comment if you give me an explicit right to read it and absorb the contents free, i do not give you that right when you read my comment, this specific one and any answers to you must be paid for in full by xmas 2012 otherwise i reserve the right to take you to court and sue you for every penny you have and every penny you will ever have in your life.
    - Guest
      
      +9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
    - Freedom of Speech
      
      Most. Awesome. TF. Comment. Ever. Written.
    - steve
      
      You are an idiot. im all for supporting the piracy party but your logic is so flawed you should be shot in the head, yes litearlly killed at birth because im sure with your limited intelligence you cannot be succesful in any way.
      
      Your dad had sex with your mother right? So i can share her too right? Also by that logic can i share your girlfriend? Or would u be upset because they are yours? fucking stupid scrub.
    - steve
      
      You are an idiot. im all for supporting the piracy party but your logic is so flawed you should be shot in the head, yes litearlly killed at birth because im sure with your limited intelligence you cannot be succesful in any way.
      
      Your dad had sex with your mother right? So i can share her too right? Also by that logic can i share your girlfriend? Or would u be upset because they are yours? fucking stupid scrub.
      Flag
    - Steve’s Dad
      
      No, son, people are not content, people are people. Your logic is flawed.
  - IDIOCRACY
    
    You are tottally write, me just tiped on me foon and misserd the w TWICWe damn those little keys, and always the same one….
    
    About getting a job,. I get paid more in a month than you in 10 years and I still work for free, well how is that possible…. figure it out yourself and you will be enlightened and have no more need to wine over imaginary lost sales and calling people thieves that only do copyright infingment according to your laws, not mine….
    
    Where I live, downloading is legal, even out of illegal source if there is such thing existing… so you might want to look less stupid and rephrase that one…..oh and ps… I never pirate, I just try before I buy hehe
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      oh just see the typos… damn, please react on it again… hehe
  - MadAsASnake
    
    I pay licenses for radio / TV programming, levies on media before I’ve listened to a thing. I also pay when I buy or rent stuff – the reason YOU don’t get paid is that none of your stuff is in there.
Guest

There may be an INJUNCTION in the U.K. that forces ISPs to black The Pirate Bay, but it isn’t illegal for a website to link to it via proxy. The BPI has nothing.

That would explain why they’re trying to cheat their way to victory.
- Guest
  
  *block
- http://www.facebook.com/jdbinion Jeff Binion
  
  Stealing music is cheating. Not the other way around. Linking to music for free download where the copyright owner is not compensated IS illegal and in my opinion THEFT. I don’t care if it’s via proxy or not.
  - hikaricore
    
    And you’re entirely entitled to your freedom to say whatever wrong shit you happen to believe it. This doesn’t however make it true or even remotely valid.
  - Guest
    
    No, it is not stealing it is copying and if linking to something is theft then sue Google for millions as they must be the biggest infringer on the planet.
  - djnforce9
    
    Your opinion means absolutely nothing and given your posts here, you’re just spouting anti-piracy nonsense like Anon and Reasoned Mind did before you (or perhaps you are all one and the same). The law clearly makes the distinction between actual theft and copyright infringement. People like you only call it theft just to get a rise out of people.
  - MakesMusicForFree
    
    http://www.facebook.com/jdbinion
    
    Feel free to direct your comments there.
    - hikaricore
      
      On his facebook page he’s posted photos of a street performer who is impersonating michael jackson and notes that these photos are copyrighted to himself. I wonder if he compensated the young man for the use of his likeness…
  - http://www.inception8.com/ Inception8
    
    I think we can all agree that music has a certain degree of power or has an extremely useful and perhaps a necessary place and enhancement to our civilization however what these people do is a bit much. Because as much good as it attempts to accomplish it infringes on everything and everyone else.
  - chronoss
    
    i think i should steal a guitar and go beat some musicians over the head perhaps if no more musicians exist we wont have a problem.
    - Pelham123
      
      Musicians know the facts. Only psychos and shills think there is a problem here and they’re a waste of a good guitar.
  - Fredrika
    
    > “Linking to music for free download where the copyright owner is not compensated IS illegal”
    
    Nope, not according to any judicial system.
    
    > “..and in my opinion THEFT. I don’t care if it’s via proxy or not.”
    
    Nor do you seem to care about the law, facts or logics.
  - Florian Bösch
    
    You fail at… everything. Carry on.
  - Pelham123
    
    I love it when people download articles without compensating the writer and then post that in their opinion downloading without compensating is stealing. You’re entitled to take any wacky moral position you want, but we expect you to follow it.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      “downloading without compensating is stealing”
      
      No, downloading from what ever source is perfectly legal in for example the Netherlands, next week the government there is going to vote in favor of not creating a download prohibition, that makes downloading effectively legal by law (instead of not mentioned so “not illegal”) ..and this downloading is legal even when the source is supposedly illegal. They pay for every data carrier a home-copy fee. For example a smart-phone gets added 5 euros on top of the price, a computer also, a blank DVD pack (25pc) about 1 euro I think…check dutch media for specifics.
      
      So remember, downloading is in a lot of countries LEGAL and legal means it is no theft. Or don’t you understand basic law.
      
      I will make it real simple for you:
      
      theft = against the law = Illegal
      Downloading = not against the law = Legal
      therefore downloading cannot equal theft, if so then illegal would equal legal, and if you say that, then you say yes equals no.
      
      get it???
      
      So don’t talk nonsense, most countries have different laws than US or where ever you seem to reside in.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      oh and compensation is not paid for computers and phones and other machines before 1 january, still downloading is legal… so without compensation. And the compensation will be challenged by Hewett Packert Google and some other big companies, they sue the state… so not even sure that stays.
    - ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt
      
      What are you on about? did you completely ignore what he said or are you replying to the wrong person?
    - Pelham123
      
      NeoToasty, I think you meant to reply to Jeff. I agree with every word you posted. Nice to see some sense on good old crazy TF.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      @Pelham123 and @ ItakeApotato etc.. yes my reply (from IDIOCRACY not NeoToasty :P ) was meant for Jeff, thats why I included the quote,… guess the new discuss f*cks with us some time right…
    - ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt
      
      Ok, yea disquss is harder to use now, and comments are no longer in order. lol.
  - watfordjc
    
    Sorry, but you’ve confused me.
    
    Who is the person that steals intellectual property?
    1) The downloader.
    2) The site that 1 downloaded it from.
    3) A site that links to 2.
    
    If it is 2 (e.g. Megaupload), and they are responsible for “all the lost sales” (as the DoJ say), then linking sites and downloaders don’t need to compensate the copyright owners.
    
    If it is 3 (e.g. TV-Links) then storage sites and downloaders don’t need to compensate the copyright owners.
    
    If it is 1, then storage sites and link sites don’t need to compensate the copyright owner.
    
    Your opinion means squat as you are not a lawyer, not every member of a jury, not an expert on the law of 196 countries, not an expert on international law, nor an expert on the differing laws between regions of a country (e.g. England & Wales v Scotland, New York State v Texas).
    
    I expect that is the very reason you claim linking sites are illegal when in many jurisdictions they are not – or did you completely miss the various court rulings including TV-Links and OiNK?
    
    Calling something theft is stupid. If we take your opinion as law then Heinz can sue Tesco for making own brand soup, a Tesco employee for putting Tesco Tomato Soup on the shelf, and the shoplifter that stole the soup.
    
    Then again, if you put most music labels and movie studios in a food retail setting, they’ll believe they’d better only make Tesco Everyday Value Tomato Soup available because Heinz quality leads to theft. They’ll even water it down (lossless compression) and add nanobots so they know if you’ve eaten soup bought by a friend when they check your stool samples (DRM).
  - JohnGaspardo
    
    All is fair in love and war. Stealing from them is the point. Fascists are have no place in existence and therefore must be stepped on, shit on, stolen from, beaten, raped, murdered and then cursed for ALL eternity. Anybody that puts money and power over lives is a fascist and needs to be wiped from existence at all costs. There is no room for debate it is as simple as that. Just like child molesters there is no rehabilitation they just need to die!!!!
    - http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell
      
      Hardly. Pedosexuals is a natural and normal sexuality that is just bashed upon today because heterosexuality outside of marriage, homosexuality and interracial relationships are not allowed to be used for that.
      
      Get off the stupidity of “Pedos force children into sex!” No, speaking from my relationships as a child with adults, they ASK the children to have sex with them 99.9% of the time.
      
      Which makes the relationships consensual and therefore? Not morally wrong.
    - JohnGaspardo
      
      So your telling me 5 year old little kids can consent to having a dirty old man touch them? Do 5 year olds even understand what sex is? It is not an acceptable state of sexuality to be attracted to children that haven’t even gone through puberty and then to act on those sick twisted desires just as it is unacceptable to have the sick twisted wet-dream of unlimited profits at all cost weather they be actual lives or inalienable rights. In either case those that act on those impulses and for that matter have them in the first place are not fit to live among the rest of us. Civilization is about working together not preying on little kids and people with less power than you. Anybody or anything that threatens the progress of civilization must die.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Let me be the devils advocate again for a moment,
      
      just imagine the following: In Greece there is a place called SPARTA, we all know about it (at least the ones that paid any attention in their history classes). What a lot of people seem to forget is that with everything in life, habits seem to be dated, same counts for sexuality in general, covering all possibilities and forms.
      
      One of these habits in SPARTA in the ancient time, was founded in the thing they were famous for, their military.
      
      Lets have a look at their training program: the boys were taken away from home at the age of 7, they went into a hard military training program and were assigned to a mentor, most of the time an older soldier with whom they would develop a strong bond. It was not uncommon that the boy and the mentor developed a sexual relation as well, at the age of 18 they would be married as soon as possible to produce as many new soldiers as possible.
      
      More info (true or false and their arguments) can be found about this in the next source:
      
      Cartledge, Paul (2001), Spartan Reflections, London: Duckworth, ISBN 0-7156-2966-2.
      
      Another example: the Prophet Mohamed married his wife aisha at the age of 6 and the marriage was consummated (“wedding night”) at the age of 9, which was even in that time around 1050 after Christ, on the edge of morally right.
      
      Source: ask your imam
      
      So every habit people have, is dated, something morally right now can be a reason for death penalty in 100 years, and the other way around of course.
      
      Just remember that only about 100 years ago, women in Europe and US got the right to vote, and they even did not have equal rights yet then.
      
      In the US there are even still states that forbid or not recognize the gay marriage, how morally wrong is that…
      
      The US army you are allowed to be in when you are gay, you just are not allowed to tell anyone… how hypocrite and morally wrong is that?
      
      Selling guns to idiots, how wrong is that?
      
      Selling guns to Israel, how wrong is that
      
      Giving weapons to an Iraki dictator to suppress his own people because you want him to fight the Iranians, how wrong is that, then sending your own children to that same dictator to remove him and killing journalists and get your own kids killed in the process and try to cover it up and jail the whistle blower on that, how wrong is that.
      
      I will not even start about Vietnam here or the slave period in US and their traders here.
      
      A lot of these now morally wrong things are still considered acceptable or accepted right now…. so again,… it all depends in what timeframe you view these actions or habits..
    - JohnGaspardo
      
      Yeah and people only lived to be 30 and thought the world was flat? What is your point? Black people were 1/5th of a human being not to long ago and my point is that it doesn’t make it right and kids that haven’t gone through puberty have no business having sex with adults PERIOD. Let the adults have sex with each other all they want, but not the kids
    - http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole
      
      I’m sorry that you were felt up by a dirty old man as a kid, John. That shit ain’t right.
    - JohnGaspardo
      
      Not me but my best friend from when I was a kid. I just saw her a couple months ago and she’s one fucked up kid because of it and drinks like a damn fish.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      I did not say that it makes it right, as you should have understood, being right in this matter is a matter of the time you live in. Like smoking marijuana, it was legal then it was not, then it was legal again and then it was not, both moral and unmoral and then again morally right again…
      
      I just told you, that I would be advocate of the devil in this for a moment, and the whole reason for that is the fact that the things Christopher said, are not at all that weird and that in EVERY discussion there is always room for debate and not all moral dilemmas are so clear when it concerns this subject.
      
      To give an example, a neighbor of mine had a young neighbor girl (on the other side than my house) of that time 8 years old, she actually threatened him that she would tell everyone he touched her if he did not do as she asked. She wanted his physical attention so to say, he did not give in and he got a lot of trouble because of it, I was in the garden when she did threaten him and overheard the conversation through the open kitchen window, due to my testimony he was acquitted of any of the slander from the girl but just imagine what could have happened.
      
      To be clear, if anyone touches one of my kids, I shoot the one doing that to kingdom come.
    - JohnGaspardo
      
      Well you can’t legislate morality anyway so it’s a moot point.
  - MadAsASnake
    
    Google search does not come up with anything on you? so which one applies:
    a: you are not a musician of any note
    b: you are one of those unfortunates that signed with the MAFIAA and never got promoted
    c: You DMCA’d away all links on Google
    
    Whatever – you aren’t getting paid because no-one know who you are… You need to stop worrying about pirates and get out there and SELL yourself
  - Fnordius
    
    Fascinating how fast you managed to write so many comments in favour of the music industry. Not at all suspicious, nosiree.
    
    So you favour committing immoral personal destruction of an advocate of sharing information because some industry executives suspect that certain sites that have been linked to by proxy might tell people where to download bootlegs?
    
    Wow.
  - Blah
    
    Who gives a f. You can’t stop pirates, period.
- Zenamez
  
  The justice system is a joke in general. A great example is a European law sort of thing said it was illegal to block access to websites under “freedom of information”. The High court in the UK issued a blocking order anyway (The European court is higher than the High court but they just issues a blocking notice anyway).
  
  Wouldn’t be surprised if money is exchanged and the proxy is taken offline.
  - Guest
    
    I dont see why the EU court couldn’t sanction the UK court over that decision and tell the ISP if it blocks it, it will get into trouble via EU law?
    
    I am not a lawyer but I asked a friend who knows one and he kinda agrees with me on that.
    
    Discuss.
Guest

“site blocking is disproportionate and ineffective”

Yes true because only a few UK ISP’s allow and still allow access to TPB and these ISP’s have not received any legal action or threats from BPI to block access to TPB whatsoever despite other ISP’s being forced to block access to TPB due to a court order.

What is the point of BPI of getting a court to block some ISP’s from accessing TPB but then still allow other ISP’s to continue access. If the point was to completely block TPB then they have failed.

To block some ISP’s from access to TPB but allow others access is descrimination.
- youdontneedtoknowwhoIam
  
  they aren’t after the access of everybody else..at least not directly. They’re after taklng the site offline..they know Pirate Party is TPB”s ISP and they’ll use a ruling in their favor to demand that Pirate Party no longer supply TPB with access no matter where it is. Look past the smoke mirrors and bullshit please.
  - Guest
    
    My point was why was some ISP’s ordered to block TPB and not others??? By not forcing all ISP’s to block TPB and allowing others to access clearly shows that it is not the case of blocking access to the site as there would have issued the court order for every ISP which they didn’t
- Duke
  
  For me the real stupidity here is that, from what I understand, the court orders they got against the first ISPs allow them to simply add new addresses (which they claim are providing access to TPB) to the block. So all they’d have to do is send a letter to the 6 main ISPs asking them to add PPUK’s proxy to the list.
  
  But no, waiting 6 months and then suing the leadership personally is far more fun…
  
  [Disclaimer; I work for PPUk but am not involved in this matter.]
Southern

easy way to retaliate. Hold their members personally responsible and hit their knees with a baseball bat. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire

This is a new low… even for the BPI who are “natural born scum”.
- JohnGaspardo
  
  that’s a bit tame to describe pure evil….
  - Guest
    
    SO what do you propose we call these megalomaniacal power hungry tyrants?
    - JohnGaspardo
      
      There is already a word for people that put money and power over lives:Fascist. They must be wiped from existence wherever they sprout up.
Jigsy

Greed.
OneEyedWillie

I would suggest not fighting fair because they are not. However you want to interpret this is up to you. Be creative.
Guest

Why are the BPI suing the individuals themselves and not the Pirate Party. Maybe they can’t sue the Pirate Party because they are a political party so they have to sue the individuals themselves and by doing so puts ginormous pressure on the individuals themselves as they could loose everything they have, car, home etc. This is disgusting considering that despite the court order where some ISP’s are forced to block access to TPB the BPI allow the other ISP’s continual access to TPB as these other ISP’s have not been given a court order or even faced legal action from BPI itself.
- http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
  
  You never sue an organization, only the persons that are legally responsible, like the Swedish Pirate Party leader Anna Troberg for supporting TPB with bandwidth for political reasons, i.e. being accessory to copyright infringement.
  - Anyone
    
    stop your lies
    of course you can sue organisations
    
    currently Apple and Samsung are in court for example, does that mean it is Tim Cook vs. Lee Kun-Hee (the CEOs of Apple and Samsung, respectively)
    
    stop and think for a minute before posting, that would increase the quality of your posts
    - Duke
      
      You can only sue organisations that have legal personality; i.e. are incorporated in some form. In most countries, there are special laws allowing “companies” to incorporate, so they are able to own property and take legal action, but these usually come with specific regulations.
      
      In the UK, political parties are legally weird, and don’t have legal personality. So the BPI (a limited company) can’t sue the Party. There have been a couple of ‘similar’ cases in the UK over the last few years, where Nick Griffin (chairman of the British National Party) was sued in his capacity as chair of the BNP.
      
      [Disclaimer: I work for PPUk, but am not involved in this litigation, but have heard some of the legal advice on these issues, and am familiar with the basics of English company law.]
    - Anyone
      
      Interesting, I wasn’t aware of this in english law
    - ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt
      
      I’m more curious as to what they are gonna try to sue for. they can’t make up some imaginary number like they usually do (they probably will anyways), because 1 person visits the proxy does not equal 1 download, and 1 download does not equal 1 lost sale.
      
      hell, maybe all the site visits were only for research.
    - Jonathon Luken
      
      those are called corporations… thats how that works
  - chronoss
    
    in fact its the other way around
    you dont see the CEO of apple or samsung being sued you see samsing the company and apple the company getting sued….
    
    this is gonna backfire badly on BPI
  - Fredrika
    
    > “,,like the Swedish Pirate Party leader Anna Troberg for
    supporting TPB with bandwidth for political reasons, i.e. being
    accessory to copyright infringement.”
    
    Please stop lying. Since Pirate Bay never have even been suspected of committing any copyright infringements, providing them with bandwidth can never be accessory to copyright infringements.
    - ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt
      
      Why bother, hes obviously full of shit or trolling.
      
      We can down-vote now, its much easier then restating facts that he will just ignore.
  - Guest
    
    “like the Swedish Pirate Party leader Anna Troberg for supporting TPB with bandwidth for political reasons, i.e. being accessory to copyright infringement.”
    
    Let me point out once again that you, yes YOU Nejtillpirater, are an accessory to copyright infringement because you fund your ISP with monthly payments, and your ISP acts as a conduit for the transfer of copyright infringing information(after all, it must have at least one customer who’s a dirty pirate).
    
    If Anna Troberg is an accessory to copyright infringement then you are, too. This is according to your own reasoning.
    - Nejtillpiraters_mom
      
      I wish my boy could reason. Then he could move out of my house. Sorry, dear!
  - ThumbsUpThumbsDown
    
    If this were true, each and every Corporate officer and shareholder of the Financial Services Industry that had anything to do with the Financial crisis would be serving life terms in a cell the size of a casket. Need I mention the BP oil spill?
    
    We must distinguish between Criminal Liability and Civil Liability.
    
    The problem is that the Civil law on Corporate Standing gives the shareholders and executives of Corporations blanket immunity for liability arising out of civil acts committed in the course of the Corporation’s business.
    
    As citizens, we suffer hugely because of this impunity. If the Shareholders and Executives who are so well paid to manage these corporations had FULL civil liability; and, if the Highest Corporate officers were more exposed to criminal sanctions; and, if those criminal sanctions for Corporate officers REQUIRED Revocation of the Corporate Charter, we would be much better off as a society.
    
    Today, Copyright Holders want it both ways: No Civil Liability for them; massive civil liability for MegaUpload, Pirates Bay, De Jazz1, RapidShare. No Criminal Liability for them; massive criminal liability for Kim DotCom and the founders of the Pirate’s Bay.
    
    That’s the Impunity we need to change.
  - Anonymous
    
    So by suing the chairman and all the members who sit on the board you effectively sue the entire organization. Master stroke in one!
  - Nejtillpiraters_mom
    
    That;s not en example of suing a legally responsible party, dear. Come upstairs and eat your peas.
  - IDIOCRACY
    
    That is slander, do you know you are breaking the law right now, if I were her, I would sue you.
http://www.facebook.com/jdbinion Jeff Binion

One more thing…if you’re the one making it available via a website, you should be liable for compensating me. I don’t care if you’re a company or an individual. Music piracy is theft … plain and simple.
- Guest
  
  Google also link to music, movies etc. and they too make it available to everyone in the world more so than the Pirate Party. And since when has music piracy is theft, how can it be theft when the music company still has the original.
- Liam JH
  
  I go to gigs, I buy merchandise – I even buy cd’s – those nice physical goods. Tangible goods with a true market value that I own and can sell as I please. Digital goods are worthless and overpiced.
  Give me something I cant get from youtube, radio or T.V and I will pay a fair market value.
- ren
  
  Did you get spanked very hard by your father after he caught you recording music off the radio onto cassette tape when you were a kid?
- Anyone
  
  if you fail to sell something, why should you get any money?
  
  offer a better product and people will buy it
  - highboi
    
    yes better product will bring in more money. i pirate everything i use from music to games to software to movies, when i find something i truly love or i can find a good use for, ill buy it. wouldnt it suck to spend money on something you cant refund if u dont like? when it comes to cd/dvds once opened, u cant return it. not to mention most pirates have a little message in most the .nfo’s file stating if you like something support the devs/creators.
- onion
  
  That’s funny given the incredibly low premium paid to the actual artists by the recording and publishing industry.
  If anyone’s the thief it would be the publishers.
  - Andrew me
    
    This is what confuses me, why are musicians on here demanding people pay for there music. I wonder if it really is artists or the studios that are commenting, because we all know it is only the studios who benefit from more cd sales, the artists make next to nothing, well £40 000 if they somehow manage to sell 1 million albums, and that in these days is almost impossible.
    - jimmy671
      
      “This is what confuses me, why are musicians on here demanding people pay
      for there music. I wonder if it really is artists or the studios that
      are commenting,”
      
      It’s MAFIAA TROLLS that are commenting.Read a few threads and you will know who they are.
- Fredrika
  
  > “Music piracy is theft … plain and simple.”
  
  Not according to the law, proper use of language, physics or logics. What remains then is someone’s personal ignorance.
  
  > “If you like it and want to listen to it..pay for it.”
  
  Listening to music has always been free, try it yourself if you don’t believe me, by pressing play on a media player of your choice. Not a coin operated one though.
- Andrew me
  
  Rubbish, if you want an income from your music you need to let people hear it, the past where people just paid and if it was crap which it is 99% of the time, are over, you as an artist should look at the future not live in the past those days when the customer where ignored and the musicians were so big headed they just expected people to pay for crap , well technology has caught up with you, you produce crap and people will not pay for anything in fact they will stop sharing it with anyone and you will become irrelevant.
- IDIOCRACY
  
  I will first have to download it to see if I like it, and if (not when) I like it I will buy it for the price I think is worth it. If it is too expensive for what I think its worth, I will never listen it again,.. for the same reason I will never listen to Gary Glitter; greed or morally wrong artists can go F**k themself, I also burned my KISS albums when the singer said he wanted everyone that pirates his music, to lose their houses, cars, families etc. I actually got a nice hot fire with the original vinyl… :D so if you Jeff want me to listen your music…. no thanks, you are morally wrong calling downloading theft…its legal where I live, even from a supposedly illegal source.
  
  Try before buy for good price example: long time ago I got a copy of Command and Conquer from someone and I downloaded the no-CD-crack for it, I thought it was nice to play, so later I bought the First decade for 10 euros, 10 games in one box…. that is a realistic deal. By the way, I own the original now but still play the cracked one because then the (sucking) DRM is gone requiring the DVD to run… makes the PC a lot more quiet and using less power (little…. hehe)
- jimmy671
  
  Fuck Me!,You Fucking Trolls are out in force tonight.
- MadAsASnake
  
  I write software for a living. It’s creative. If I don’t arrange for someone to pay me (usually by writing what they want) I don’t get paid. Really simple. I’ve never heard of you and it looks like it’s gonna stay that way…
bihive

bunch of cunts
Guest

“The problem with fighting the BPI in court is that it’s a costly endeavor. The Pirate Party is currently running a fund-raiser so it can afford to fight back, but if the case drags on the money is bound to dry up at some point.”

And this no doubt is what the BPI will be counting on the fact that the Pirate Party do not have the funds to contest and fight in court and so BPI will win by default. Disgusting when the little man can’t fight back.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash
  
  What’s the difference between communism and democracy? Democracy is just a poor excuse for hypocrites who pretty much dictate everything that’s going on to hide behind closed doors and hide what they truly are.
  
  The elections are often rigged and if they’re not rigged then you’re voting for a politician that has been paid off, therefore it is still rigged.
  
  If democracy where real, the judges would be doing their jobs and judging people with common sense and not money.
  - BuddhaFacePalmed
    
    Winston Churchill once said, “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
    - chronoss
      
      oh so your saying hitlers version was better? AWFUL quote
    - brett
      
      I don’t think he is.
    - ShEsHy
      
      Churchill said that democracy is bad, but every other known form of government is even worse.
    - scottbp
      
      Nope he said “except all the others that have been tried”
      Which to me says we need to try something new out.
    - Aristoteles
      
      we need a pirate aristocracy
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash
      
      Reverting back to when people lived toghether in communities and actually helped each other out and traded things with each other instead of using money. This is the only way, anything else will involve someone in charge. By leaving anyone in charge you risk to become a pawn if that person turns against you.
    - ProGrasTiNation
      
      Here’s some facts about a leader trying do do right for his people
      http://expertscolumn.com/content/list-good-things-muammar-gaddafi-done-people-libya
      
      And look what happened to him!
    - BuddhaFacePalmed
      
      I’m saying that democracy shall always be messy, chaotic, and unfair. But at least with democracy, you can change your government if you have the will. The Pirate Party did it against all odds. All other forms of governments would simply gone on as business as usual. If you don’t like it, vote for a different candidate. If you don’t like either candidates, then go run as one.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Let me play advocate of he devil for a moment, did you know that the most efficient state form ever has been the 3rd Reich it Fascistic government until (or even until little after) they started the Blitzkrieg with Poland; more (rail)roads and highways were build than in any other time before, the economic growth was bigger than ever before, the Volkswagen beetle was invented (volks-wagen = citizens car).
      
      So actually to answer your question….Just play civilization, the best way to start is be a dictator, it will advance you nations development the quickest.
      
      And notice for fun my nickname hehe
    - Anyone
      
      if you have capable people in power, sure, a dictatorship will work
      
      but then you have people in charge that start a landwar in Russia in winter ;)
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      exactly my point….. so lets see what happens in the brain of NTP and anon and the new guy Jeff Binion, the last one actually believes a guy putting up a video to attract investors for a “Perpetium Mobile” while physics dictate that there is no such thing. How low IQ can you have?
    - ProGrasTiNation
      
      My family think i’m nuts when i tell them this about the germans.
      
      Sure they went down the wrong road with the mass killing but they had no other choice.
      
      They saw what democracy does to a country & said no way & targeting the shops & people not from their land was a valid thing to do but just not they way they went about it.
      
      All our countries have companies that suck our money & feed it to other nations with lasting damage that takes years to unfold & no one cares because they have it easy & don’t have the stomach to fight.
      
      WW2 did more damage then just millions dead,it gave the greed a face lift & it has gone unopposed ever since.
    - kraiut
      
      Your family are right.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Let me correct you there for a moment,
      
      “targeting the shops & people not from their land was a valid thing to do but just not they way they went about it.”
      
      No it was not, they were Germans too, just with another believe, made to scapegoats by the government as a reason for their misery.
      
      However, German misery was mainly due to bad economics as a result of the Democratic capitalism of the western world that just came into a major recession (stock market crash Wallstreet for example) and the damage payments to France because of WW1.
      
      There was absolutely nothing valid about rounding up and killing 6 or 6 million Jews, even not now, regarding their misbehavior towards the Palestinian problem.
      
      So get that into your skull, there was a lot more they could have done to save their country instead of killing the “immigrants” don’t start sounding like Breivik will you…. Discrimination is always bad, especially in the long term, either positive or negative discrimination.
      
      To explain you a bit more about MY comment, Fascism does not equal killing your people, it does not equal terror, it does not equal what Hitler did to other countries and people.
      
      Fascism advocates a state-controlled and regulated mixed economy; the principal economic goal of fascism is to achieve autarky to secure national self-sufficiency and independence, through protectionist and interventionist economic policies. It promotes regulated private enterprise and private property contingent whenever beneficial to the nation and state enterprise and state property whenever necessary to protect its interests. (source:Blamires, Cyprian, World Fascism: a Historical Encyclopedia, Volume 1 (Santa Barbara, California: ABC-CLIO, Inc., 2006) p. 188-189.)
      
      Having said that…it is still very efficient, but as “anyone” replied on my post already said, it depends much on the one(s) in power if it is good or evil.
      
      So there is actually not so much difference with the governmental situation in US hehe.
    - NeoToasty
      
      Certain people in history have executed ways of governing in horrible fashions. Thus why they’ve been known to have bad reputations and why they’re seen as evil and corrupting to today’s society. The wrong people are in power to make any of the best in governing.
      
      Especially people in America, China, and the UK as of now.
    - Someone_Else
      
      Try reading the entire quote, you missed the part after the word ‘government’.
    - joexxx
      
      Who is hitlers?
    - Guest
      
      You obviously misread or don’t understand the quote. It’s saying its the worst, but the best of what has been tried (Lesser of evils).
    - patchesm
      
      He means democracy is the lesser evil.
    - Smarterthanchronoss
      
      You fucking dipshit.
    - Twatt
      
      Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Democracy ain’t infallible…
    - lucian303
      
      He was so wrong. Experience proves otherwise.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      You’re right, Democracy is the worst… other forms just had bad people in the government.
      
      IDIOCRACY is the best woehahaha
    - lucian303
      
      Obviously for people that can’t comprehend English like you.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      I would say: want to comprehend English :P
      But no really.. My history teacher once told me (and I must say I agree) from all governing systems that exist, the best one is communism, it’s just a shame humans are not fit for it. …..
    - lucian303
      
      Your teacher obviously never even visited a Communist country and has no idea what he or she is talking about. The best form of government is one that works for the governed not the governors. Communism is disgusting and people who think that it can be otherwise are deluded. Then again, trying to explain that to people from a society (US) who don’t even understand the difference between communism and socialism is like trying to explain that to a jack ass. At least the ass sits there and listens patiently.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Actually my teacher and all 16 year old kids visited Prague every year from 1970 till 1999. I was there myself in 1986, before the wall fell. And I think you missed my point and my teachers point, we know exactly what happened in eastern Europe countries before the Iron Curtain fell and citizens of these countries could finally freely travel across the border to west-Europe.
      
      But you obviously missed the remark that “humans are not fit for it”
      
      The reason of this remark was to emphasize the fact that Communism as we know it from the former communistic Soviet satellite states, were at the mercy of a few autocratic rulers and that communism had very little to do with the communism Karl Marx and Engels wrote their manifest about in 1848. So….you might want to read my post again before you explode, because than you see I actually agree with you..
      
      What I want to make clear their with the post is that n ideology is not per definition bad because humans have f*ck*d it up.
    - lucian303
      
      Ideology that’s not practical is called bullshit.
      
      “we know exactly what happened in eastern Europe countries before the Iron Curtain”
      
      You don’t know shit about what happened. A lot of the people in Eastern Europe didn’t know shit about what was happening. To make such a claim based on visits of what the commies _allowed_ you to see is wrong, insulting, degrading to the people that went through it, and arrogant beyond anything I’ve heard on this debate.
      
      You don’t even know your own arrogance let alone ANYTHING that happened over there. And yes, I get your teacher’s point. It’s an easy one to make when you haven’t LIVED through it.
  - PiRat
    
    Problem is people seem to think all they need to do is tick a box on the ballot paper and everything will be just dandy.
    
    Idea behind representatives is that people already know what they want, it’s like telling a waiter “just bring food”, you don’t know what you’re going to get.
    
    Regarding the article, looks like PPUK is fucked.
  - lucian303
    
    No difference. Communism, democracy, fascism. All oligarchies to tyrannical leaders. Having lived in a commie country I can attest to this as can my whole family and the whole population of the country (other than those that were part of the party).
    - Jem Dew
      
      I live in a so-called democratic country, there was a dictatorship some decades ago, they did nothing for the country. Now, the actual government acts like a dictatorship and when they’re accused for that, they come with the argument: “How can they say that? We were voted for the majority”, they’re right, but when they’re breaking the same laws promulgated by themselves, in order to get things they want, they’re no longer a democracy
      
      The country has a nice chance to improve the economy (it’s consequence of administrations [past and present]), but even if they’re doing a couple of good things, they’re just wasting that opportunity and money in propaganda, indoctrinating the population, modifying the legislation to have more political control and trying to stay there (they can be reelected with just 40% now, when in the past it was a strict 50% plus 1 to be directly elected).
      
      Fascism works? Ask to Spaniards. Democracy works? Just look how the USA gov., and other countries following the same line, act. Communism works? Ask to those who can’t aspire to anything better and feel frustrated to death. If those who are in charge would have the whole intention to enhance their regions, the system used to govern wouldn’t be so relevant. Left, Right, etc. wouldn’t matter.
      
      BTW, about Nazis, they have theories like: “We are the best, so we’re going to do everything for our own nation and people only”, their other theory was the plan to wipe out the “inferior races…”, well, their Nazi theory failed, they weren’t able to impose the concept and make it work, inferior races weren’t that and some persons and nations they considered their people, didn’t share their vision and fought them too.
    - http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell
      
      Thank you, lucian303. I was about to point that out myself. All countries today are oligarchies run by the extremely wealthy, save perhaps Cuba.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      “Ideology that’s not practical is called bullshit.”
      
      **********************************************************
      No it is an ideology, ever read a dictionary?
      The fact that you let your (obvious) personal experience demote a complete ideology that actually works very good in certain places on this earth with the people living in it not even knowing that in the western world it is an ideology.
      ********************************************************
      
      “we know exactly what happened in eastern Europe countries before the Iron Curtain”
      
      “You don’t know shit about what happened. A lot of the people in Eastern Europe didn’t know shit about what was happening. To make such a claim based on visits of what the commies _allowed_ you to see is wrong, insulting, degrading to the people that went through it, and arrogant beyond anything I’ve heard on this debate”.
      
      **************************************
      When you think that I base my knowledge and comments on what the authorities there let me see than you must have a real weak understanding from education in certain western countries.
      *********************************************
      
      You don’t even know your own arrogance let alone ANYTHING that happened over there. And yes, I get your teacher’s point. It’s an easy one to make when you haven’t LIVED through it.
      
      *******************************************
      The arrogance is yours my friend, don’t forget I actually agreed with you, and you don’t know shit about me or on what I have based my comments. I just told you a little experience I had and you don’t know what was shown to us and what we saw, that we were not allowed to see. You totally ignore the basic meaning of the comment, you only get a red flag in front of you because someone defends the Ideology of communism and you had a hard time…. you are still alive so don’t complain.
      
      I don’t need to have lived it to know it is bad, just an example of your arrogance: maybe, just maybe I happen to have a half sister that lived in Romania under Ceausescu and she was tortured to death because she was part of the underground resistance??? just an idea for you to chew on.
      
      so because of the book (and chapter) it is from, this phrase is for you:
      
      Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
      
      get it…??
      *************************************************
  - bobmail
    
    The difference betwen communism and democracy? Pansies like you couldn’t last 5 minutes living under communism.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Wow you can actually call other posters names…. wow, can you do that again name calling that is… real intellectual comments, I just liked you (joke hehe)
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Johnny-Cash/100002427462340 Johnny Cash
      
      Is this all you had to say? This kind of insult is the result of people like you who do not understand what they’re talking about and get frustrated when the subject is out of their hands. I would suggest you remove yourself from this site as you are bound to insult your own intelligence by reading smart things that people say.
- DangerousMind
  
  Let threatens to make history of some BPI executives if they go forward with their lawsuit against pirate party members then.
- keroko
  
  Rather than communism, this is a perfect example of the dark side of capitalism. The guys with all the money can push down on people with no money.
Riul

These guys are heroes, though I doubt they have a chance in the UK, since the law doesn’t seem to recognize rights or justice
dxloat

They had better be carefull, if you take everything a person has they can become hopeless and do things horrifically irrational or even violent.
- Syborg
  
  Like blowing each other up or off..
Whatever

The attack on a personal level works 2 ways. Good to know.

The individual morons at the BPI/MAFIAA can be held responsible for all the illegal DMCA notices themselves. Now if Google were only to make a real effort instead of only showing “no action” (not even “reverse action”).

If this is possible then personal attack can be used by artists that have their content illegally taken down by the MAFIAA. And the MAFIAA members have a lot more personal enemies than the pirate party members.
- chronoss
  
  what ya need to do is to have everyone in sweden boycott the net for a month
  heck do it all winter go offline and play some game or whatever….
  take the ball and dont come back dont buy a radio
  dont buy a new tv , dont buy cable make a board game and play it
  - IDIOCRACY
    
    They should have a lot of snow there now too, take a sledge and find a nice hill, take the kids with you… priceless ..hehe
http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

““It is clear that we are facing a significant threat, and we will have to fight it. And fight it well, not just for the sake of the Pirate Party, but because of the principles at stake. I have always believed that it is not just enough to have principles, you need to act on them too, even if it gets difficult,” Kaye told us last weekend.”

I think there’s an even more important principle, that the creators shall control the release of copies of their own work, making it possible to make money from their investment, instead of letting piracy sites like TPB make money based on criminality. Or in other words – the law must be respected instead of accepting criminality. The BPI as well as similar organizations must keep on fighting for justice.
- Anyone
  
  if you don’t want your work spread, don’t release it
  once you release it to the public it is out of your hand
  
  the BPI simply wants to keep ripping off 90% of the artist’s earnings
  the artists should complain about that, not about fans sharing their passion
  - Andrew me
    
    The few artist selling a million copies of a song, remeber the top of the top are selling a few thousand to reach the top of the charts, but those making 1 million sales get back in “charity” from the distributors around £40 000 for those 1 million sales, it is outright blatant theft from the artists and the copyright laws allow it. Let any good artist sell there songs to people who want to pay for not only the songs but merchandise and seeing the song performed live and the artists make money, why do you think people like tom jones and that gay piano player are doing concerts of there old stuff, they have run out of money and need a few million for a new car or house or drugs and women.
    
    A few concerts get them much more than releasing a new album, and they do not have to spend the time and effort to release more songs people want to listen to. Imagine if they had not made as much as they had over years of concerts, they would be releasing new tracks all the time, but money has stopped them creating they are rich enough and rely on old works to make money. Sad but plainly true.
    
    Take the money out of music and video and much more will be created , let everyone share freely and much more content will be released, dont let copyright holders make millions of one song, they should be made to work for a living.
- BuddhaFacePalmed
  
  No, creators do not have rights to control their release of copies. There is no precedent anywhere on the planet that allows someone to control a copy they’ve sold to somebody else. It’s simple economics and property rights; I buy your shit, now its MY shit. What I do with MY shit has nothing to do with YOU.
- Liam JH
  
  Artists have more power to release independently of the major labels, more power to profit for themselves.
  The people profiting (racketeering) is not the creators but the publishers – they put in zero effort now to create a physical product (cd/dvd) and release music digitaly for the same cost as a c.d.
  BPI here are not protecting artists they are protecting corporations who are now being exposed as unecessary.
- Guest
  
  “Or in other words – the law must be respected instead of accepting criminality.”
  
  Well that clearly shows the Swedish government and Swedish law etc. to be a complete an utter joke considering that they can’t shutdown TPB even when it has a Swedish .se web domain address. How can Swedish law be respected when the Swedish law can’t shutdown something that they so state are criminal activity. An absolute joke the Swedish law is lol By not shutting down TPB clearly proves that TPB is not illegal.
- Fredrika
  
  > “I think there’s an even more important principle, that the creators
  shall control the release of copies of their own work..”
  
  Society has as you know no proven need for that principle. That actually means that the copyright monopoly should be dismantled according to other well established principles.
  
  > “..making it
  possible to make money from their investment..”
  
  They don’t need a legislative monopoly for that.
  
  > “..instead of letting piracy
  sites like TPB..”
  
  Pirate Bay is not a piracy site? Pirate Bay has never been suspected of committing piracy? And according to all judicial systems it’s a fully legal site. That doesn’t sound like piracy now does it?
  
  > “..make money based on criminality.”
  
  Which they don’t. And it seems you still haven’t learned the difference between penal law and civil law?
  
  > “Or in other words – the
  law must be respected instead of accepting criminality.”
  
  Must be out of principle? A democratic society has no such principle, fascism however do. Is that what you are advocating?
  
  > “The BPI as well
  as similar organizations must keep on fighting for justice.”
  
  Since society has no proven need for the copyright monopoly, justice would be to dismantle it, so that it stops invading people property rights in an just way?
  
  Is justice a concept you don’t grasp?
- Guest
  
  “the creators shall control the release of copies of their own work”
  
  No, they won’t. Not in the 21st century.
  
  The good news is, that isn’t a problem.
  - MadAsASnake
    
    Agree. Once something is in the public domain [as in released], it will be watched, copied, criticised, parodied and so on. If the creators wish for that sort of thing not to happen, then the option is to not release it.
- Guest
  
  “instead of letting piracy sites like TPB make money based on
  criminality. Or in other words – the law must be respected instead of
  accepting criminality. The BPI as well as similar organizations must
  keep on fighting for justice.”
  
  And despite what you Nej and other organisations say about the TPB making money of criminal activity and that the site must be shutdown the site still continues to operate. If such a site was in any way infringing or in any way criminal activity then it would have been shutdown by law enforcement but it hasn’t. The site has a Swedish .se web domain address so surely it is easy for law enforcement in Sweden to get one of its own country web domains shutdown and if it doesn’t then Swedish law enforcement is a joke and cannot be respected otherwise for not shutting down an infringing criminal activity website. TPB is not illegal in any way and neither does it make money from criminal activity because if it did then it would have been shutdown long ago and if you still insist that TPB is illegal and making money from illegal activity then you are in contradiction to what Swedish law as the law allows the site to continues because if it was illegal then it would have been shutdown. It can’t be that hard to shutdown a .se web domain address can it if it was against the law.
- MadAsASnake
  
  Threatening people with bankruptcy unless they do what you tell them to is blackmail. It is a criminal offense. The Pirate Party are breaking no laws, and are not in violation of the ban enforced on the ISP’s by the courts.
TATTS

u guys r all dumb and for the music industry if all the bands out there had nobody to buy there music they would not be rich….AND WE THE FANS R THE ONE THAT MADE THE MUSIC INDUSTRY FUCKING RICH AND IF THERE WAS NO FANS TO BUY THE MUSIC THERE WILL BE NO MUSIC INDUSTRY!!!!!!
- http://twitter.com/barton71 Craig McLeod
  
  There will always be a music industry. We will always have musicians plying their trade. The music industry isn’t the problem. The problem is the recorded music industry. You can’t hum a tune in your head without them demanding to be financially compensated.
ayntcotx

Do the retards of the BPI have any idea how many proxies there are?

Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

Yeah, good luck blocking anything at all, you can’t stop information, you can’t do anything.
Adapt or die.

Guys and gals, if you are tech savvy about internet and filesharing, teach any of your friends and relatives who wants to learn. I am.

And man, word of mouth is a very powerful thing ^_^
- http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole
  
  If you’re anywhere other than China, Tor is an excellent program for surfing the web anonymously. It also has the side effect of effectively neutralizing any site blocking (except for that one time when my exit node was in the UK, but that’s another story)
  
  I say except for China because they’ve now managed to shut down each and every encrypted connection, so far at least. But give it time. Those Chinese insurgents are playing a whole other game, levels above the rest of us. Their next stage of encryption will resemble facebook posts or something under DPI
chronoss

isnt threatening a sitting party called treason
chronoss

hire a private investigator or three and have them follow these people around BPI that is until you uncover illegal acts they do..in fact jsut get all kinds a people start following them around and you will see change.
SoBobJon

Wow, those anti piracy nuts sure have a LOT of spare time on their hands!

http://www.LT-Anon.tk
Glenny

20 Pounds donated for a good cause, hurting BPI :]
Andrew Lee

I would suggest they represent themselves and research the law to find every loophole possible to drag it out over a ridiculously long time. Use sickness and every possible dirty little trick possible. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Just remember they’re spending a lot more than you are.

Plus on the upside the people of the pirate party are most likely very smart so if anyone can do it they’ll be the ones. I only wish I could be involved because I would have a blast at twisting the system to the point of fraud. “I know what you’re thinking about that last statement and don’t kid yourself they do it every single day.”
uknowimright

Copyright should be far more limited than it is. Its original purpose was mainly to protect innovation. Now it’s just a vehicle to extend corporate profits at the expense of the greater public culture. We could have legitimate debates in our legislatures about what our copyright policy should look like, but as long these bodies are essentially corrupt, vote-for-hire, and owned by big money interests – people have no alternative but to use technology to fight back.
anonymous

and this type of action is typical of the attitude of all the entertainment industries, which is one of the reasons i have stated many times that a consolidated effort against their dictatorial desire is required. to actual threaten individuals with bankruptcy, simply because the industries are not immediately getting their own way of shutting down a perfectly legal service is disgraceful! the government has condoned all that the industries have demanded and are just as gutless, fearing the backlash from them while ignoring the legal aspects, the implications and the people of the UK. they need to step up to the plate as well and start to make the entertainment industries realise that they are not in charge of the internet, do not run the Internet and have no right to censor the Internet simply to help their own business while refusing to compete in the open market. if the government allow this to happen, where will it end? will things start to happen in the UK like they happen in the US etc, where the state decides what websites can be on the net, accessed on the net, who can view what on the net? will political parties like The Pirate Party be stopped from being accessed? will religious sites be blocked? where will it end? who is going to make the decision of what is or isn’t right for everyone else?
- Hitman
  
  hear hear well said fully agree
Prophet

i think it is a matter of little time before psychos start killing music industry executives
- Guest
  
  Oh please, don’t give everybody false hope. Besides, the music industry executives are psychos(according to the proper psychiatric definition of a psychopath, not the fictionalized Hollywood version). And psychos usually don’t prey on their own.
  - Prophet
    
    I agree. Replace the word psycho for ‘pissed off people’.
- JordanKratz
  
  And I am one of the Millions who would not give one Shit at all on Demise of MAFIAA Insider.
  Fuck The MAFIAA !
Andrew me

I am sure that the British courts would frown on this type of threat, it is using a threat of bankruptcy to force a person to do what a big business wants. If anything i suspect that the BPI has made there biggest mistake yet here and that they will suffer greatly because of it.
mary hinge…no i mean

everyone has said what i was going to say. only one thing has been omitted from this whole discussion. common sense. seems to be lack of it generally and the sooner we have our own pet robots, who we can blame for visiting robotiod bit torrent site and downloading robots does dallas or robot rogers randy and so forth, the better, because we are fast running out of excuses for downloading things, and the industry in general is running out of things we can download. whether we will all get the time to watch all the downloaded crap we fill out hard drives with is another matter. can’t wait to see a robot at a laptop though, now that would be worth watching
- Guest
  
  “we are fast running out of excuses for downloading things”
  
  Filesharing isn’t wrong. We don’t need excuses.
- Fredrika
  
  > “..because we are fast running out of excuses for downloading things..”
  
  People don’t need any excuses for that, because that’s not how society works? Capitalism and property rights already excuse peoples use of their own property in a manner that saves them money.
  
  The only thing that should excused is the prohibitions in law. Your semantics is based on reversed burden or proof.
PelouzeTF

“Kaye is disappointed with the BPI’s move”

Awww Kaye, poor you.
- Guest
  
  Oh geez, we beat up Pelouze so hard it looks like this is all the trolling he can muster anymore. His spirit is broken :(
- Fredrika
  
  > “Awww Kaye, poor you.”
  
  Actually, civil law states that people should try to resolve their issues out of court before any party goes there to get an injunction. BPI obviously has no intention of doing this.
Boycott For Chistmas

The logical response would be to bankrupt the music industry. wouldn’t it be time for a mass boycott?

unbelievable lunacy such as this cannot be allowed to stand without consequences
Guest

I doubt they be able to get any monies out of them, political freedom and all that, and if they do lose, that would prove an election winner for sure.
hmm

@Jeff Binion your breath smells of cock
Anon

It seems the Pirate Party is trying to demand a norm that says that anything that can access and serve the network, even as a proxy, must be allowed to connect and serve unmonitored/unrestricted content. This just seems so unlikely to me. I don’t think they are being very effective.

The argument is interesting for awhile, I guess. But being a realist and seeing civilization as things currently stand, unless you are going to go all French Revolution on their ass on every world government, I just don’t see it. Unfettered anarchy just doesn’t exist anywhere else. Not anymore, the best you can do is require them to stamp it out. Civilizations actually don’t want it.

So once you get there and realize the inevitability of some sort of government moderation as always, (with a relative few outlier criminals as always) the Pirate Party then becomes a petulant waster of public resources, like sticking out their tongue, and just because they can. Sort of the same reasoning they use why there should be piracy, come to think of it.
- Anyone
  
  why should the internet be moderated?
  uncensored communication is good for society
  - Anon
    
    Then why do we censor activity in the real world? Isn’t your position inconsistent with history?
    - Anyone
      
      you mean I can’t write whatever I want and send it with the post office without anyone spying on me or forbidding me from writing certain words? when did that change?
    - Anon
      
      There’s tons of stuff you cannot legally mail through a post office. Where the hell do you live? the north pole?
    - Anyone
      
      I can only think of explosives as an exception to that
      and that’s because it can harm people
      
      with piracy there is no harm, so why should it be outlawed?
    - Anon
      
      You can’t legally mail any sort of contraband. I thought this was fairly well known. Infringed content is contraband. That’s why DMCA notices work. Change the law maybe, but leave the post office alone. :-)
    - Anyone
      
      not sure in which country you are, but I can legally send burned CDs and DVDs with the Post
    - Guest
      
      If DMCA notices work I am sure Google will disagree with you considering the amount of false DMCA notices that is sent to Google.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Yes you cannot mail burnable fluids or explosives, most other things you can, for safety reasons, when did sending a bunch of ones and zeros to your friends be dangerous for the network it travels over? tsss it was made for that. All stuff you cannot legally mail through post is (either) dangerous to the delivery system and / (or) the recipient.
      
      So did the download by 10,000 or more from a bunch of ones and zeros called Dark.knight.rising.ASP.XVID.Proper.avi or Linux stable 3.7.iso ever break the internet??? or kill someone that downloaded it??? sorry try again…hehe
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      What is the difference between sending my brother my burned home-copy (legal) from my owned DVD for watching it next week and keeping the original safe home in case the copy DVD gets lost in the mail, or sending just the iso to him (which he can play with free Deamontools lite without burning it to disk) by INTERNET.
      
      I tell you,… over the internet is better for the environment, saves energy (burning) and plastic and metals into the waste process (where it cost energy again to dispose of it and or generating pollution.
      
      In other words, sharing is really caring, not only for your fellow humans but also the nature / animals / trees
      hehe
    - http://profiles.google.com/pianogamer Knut Harald
      
      You can send any information through the post office, aka. anything you can send over the Internet.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Censorship – where it happens, is the preserve of legislatures and courts. Our societies should not tolerate the current attempts, on the grounds of trivial copyrights, to usurp those rights by a small cabal of industrialists. Where such legislation is enacted, it should be for the greater good of society, not rent-seeking profits for a tiny few.
- Fredrika
  
  > “it seems the Pirate Party is trying to demand a norm that says that anything that can access and serve the network, even as a proxy, must be allowed to connect and serve unmonitored/unrestricted content.”
  
  EU laws state the same.
  
  > “This just seems so unlikely to me.”
  
  As all people with any technical knowledge knows, stopping piracy is not only unlikely, but technically and legislatively impossible. If we’re gonna comment on the likeliness of things.
  
  > “I don’t think they are being very effective.”
  
  Speaking of effective, what you you say about the effectiveness of the political pirates? Only two of them so far in the parliament of the worlds biggest economy, yet they easily managed to convince the only growing parliamentarian group in that parliament to adopt their political program on copyright, including legalised filesharing.
  
  > “But being a realist and seeing civilization as things currently stand, unless you are going to go all French Revolution on their ass on every world government, I just don’t see it.”
  
  How does that make you realistic, when EU law already consider intermediary’s as non-responsible, and when it’s rather easy for pirates to convince the parliament of their politics?
  
  > “Unfettered anarchy just doesn’t exist anywhere else.”
  
  Then again, anarchy has nothing to do with this, now does it?
  - Anon
    
    Fredrika, could you please evidence your assertion that EU law codifies “that anything that can access and serve the network, even as a proxy, must be allowed to connect and serve unmonitored/unrestricted content.”"
    A link to that law will do.
    Thanks.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      Anon, could you please evidence your assertion that in a liberal democracy, we should be prevented from actions that are neither illegal, nor in breach of any court ruling. A link to that law will do
- Guest
  
  @ Anon
  
  You claim that piracy, which has throughout the course of more than 10 years proven itself beyond any conceivable shadow of a doubt to be unstoppable, can be stopped and you call yourself a realist?
  
  Oh… My fucking sides!
  - Anon
    
    I agree, I don’t think any activity can be absolutely stopped. But so far, government has largely allowed industry try to take care of itself, mostly through legal channels.
    
    When the UN or a group of world governments decides it is time to really step up and protect digital products–a scenario I’m not sure we’ll avoid–the globe will split into member states and renegade states.
    
    At that point things are gonna go rough for any renegade state that continues to host or link to unlawful content. That seems a given to me. It’s also hard for me to imagine how a network that is actually brought to us often by the same industries that piracy rips off, and the governments that regulate network access, won’t take incredible steps to curtail unlawful activity. Are pirates really espousing the belief that there can be no meaningful digital economy because pirates will continue to copy but not purchase?
    
    All I’m saying is that “brute force by piracy” seems a losing proposition. And “you can’t stop us” seems to be the best strategy pirates are suggesting so far. I’m suggesting that really kicks a sleeping giant and is unwise.
    - Anyone
      
      I’d like some of what you’re having, this seems to be a nice trip
    - ScrewEwe2
      
      All I’m saying, is that “brute force by the MAFIAA” has been and always will be, a losing proposition. And, extortion, overly aggressive demands for fiscal damages through unreasonable surveilance by copyright’s legal prostitutes seems to be the best strategy the MAFIAA has come up with so far. I’m suggesting that the sometimes illegal methods utilized by the MAFIAA and their Copyright Trolls, as well as their attempts to corrupt government’s, law enforcement, the judiciary’s and outright ignore, and trample the constitutional rights of citizens worldwide, is unwise, and will be a huge Fail.
Anon

FIGHT the POWAH.
I am mad aka upset aka insane

AUSCANNZUKUS needs to die!!!!
jj

Ok so hold all mafiaa personally responsable for going against the ppl and censoring the net, and destroying pplslivessi death I guess is justifyablr since they have caused so much damage, how does that sound?
http://twitter.com/ErikNyquist Erik Nyquist

For an illegal trust of media companies, they certianly lack online media savvy.
JordanKratz

People in the UK DESTROY BPI !!!
Hack and Crack and Blow their walls down by Airing all the Dirty Laundry they got.
MAFIAA Needs To Die !
thornintheside

The Pirate Party should launch lawsuits and bankrupt BPI members who represent the recording industry which doesn’t compensate its artists
stevelaudig

suggestion: split ownership into millions of one-time-only-transferable pieces.
http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

Just order shitloads of pizza for BPI.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_B3KQHHSRLCQFZE3UNIGQBS3QIE Cool Mike

It’s actually illegal to threaten public figures in this manor. The Music industry executives should be in jail.
- Guess
  
  Maybe the pirate party will change their topic to threats instead of a proxy.
Pingback: Piracy Lab | Music Industry Threatens to Bankrupt Pirate Party Members
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ThumbsUpThumbsDown

I don’t mind admitting that I couldn’t last five minutes under
Communism.

After all, under Communism a privileged administrative
oligarchy is empowered to enslave the popular will in the name of the primacy of social equity.

I also don’t mind admitting also that I
couldn’t live five minutes under Fascism.

After all, under Fascism a privileged Corporate Oligarchy is empowered to enslave the popular Will in the name of the primacy of economic efficiency.

What defines both Fascism and Communism as failed systems is our proven; and, all too well remembered historical experience with their inevitable obliteration of popular Will.

This simple regression to dictatorship by Corporate an administrative Buffoons explains so much unspeakable and unforgetable human suffering, that no plurality of Citizens in the American and European Democracies can contemplate without sheer terror the obliteration of Popular Sovereignty by ANY ELITE ever again.

This is the axis on which all claims to ANY Political or Social or Moral Legitimacy by Corporate Copyright Holders fail, and fail utterly.

After all, the One towering fact before us is that EVERY legal and Political action by the Corporate Copyright Monopolies have sought consistently the obliteration of Popular Sovereignty in the American and European Democracies.

Don’t believe it?

Not only do YOU intuitively believe it; not only is it transparant in their writings and in their actions; but, the most fundamental and existential weakness of Corporate Copyright Holders is precisely their inability to persuade a plurality of Democratic Citizens (whether Supreme Court Justices or Plumbers) that their Corporate agenda is compatible with the democratic supremacy of individual civil and human rights.

Still don’t believe it?

Then ask yourself once more, “What was the content and intent of PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA, and TPP, if not the effacement of popular will on behalf of Corporate Oligarchy? If you STILL don’t believe it, ask yourself once more, “What is the meaning of the imposition of SIX STRIKES without benefit of Law, by five of America’s largest monopoly ISPs; by means of one imposed MOU, containing Commercial Terms compromising the PRIVACY and abrogating the DUE PROCESS rights of 260 MILLION Customers, and 350 Million American citizens; but a substantial and credible Corporate effort to coerce its agenda in defiance of popular will?”

If what you hear then is, “I still don’t understand it.”

Then perhaps what you’re hearing is the siren song of Fascism.

That Voice can not be accomodated or denied.

It can only be survived.
Donation

Donated a few bucks, hey everything adds up right? Just donate what you can afford guys, most of us have a dollar to spare.
tonyj123

Gota do it, the only way to get these rabid dogs to back off your back is to exert our influence is to leverage everyone’s buying power on the internet. You see, they got themselves into a bind, they’re old business model of selling DVDs and CDs has collapsed and they only avenue they have now is the internet, and their momentum is colliding with our culture, they intend to take over, but we have the power, we need to boycott these mofos, that is the only way they’re going to get the message to back off.
ThumbsUpThumbsDown

This new Discus is a really vicious piece of shit.

Why vicious?

Because it waited until my index finger was just at the send key to

to obliterate my finished post. Naturally, I will recover it only in hell; if it turns out that there is really life after death; and, only if Discus doesn’t follow me there.

I can only hope it dies before me. Perhaps some merciful editor will take us forward, or backward, to the prior version that actually worked.

I told myself to wait five years before posting this; but, I’m a fool for passion, even more than intellectual clarity.

With this new Discus, I can find sanity in neither.
NetPatriot

This is sad

They are playing right into their hands with this predictable behaviour.

the political wing should be separate from the other wings, to avoid exactly these kinda things, they dont want us to get ppl into power they want us to play stupid and make dumb mistakes, dont be predictable, dont be suckers, dont help them to alienate you, dont think that they got all the other politicians in their pocket, dont take the bait, play the game smartly play it for the long run and play it to win, or safe us all allot of trouble and quit now.
disqus_4GxUyDX8wT

its stupid they make such a big fuss about it

Facebook Covers at http://www.lostcovers.com
The Unsung Hero

Loz Kaye can’t figure out why the music industry wants to bankrupt the lead of Pirate Party?

Seriously? You can’t figure that out Loz?

It’s not that hard – the thoughts represented by the Pirate Party threaten the music industry, therefore the destruction of the Pirate Party desireable to the music industry. Plus, by going after the PP leadership and making it personal, the music industry wants to get some leverage so that you decide to come to an amicable agreement without the whole issue going to a prolonged court and all the nasty publicity and the bother of yet another round of bribing judges and officials like in the TPB cases.

I know, I’m just throwing out ideas here, but does that make sense for you?
Avaxklam

Hope they sue them pretty Good!
anonymous

you can read more : http://g2.gangsters.pl/index.php?ref=483
anonymous

unfortunately, The Pirate Party will be forced to take TPB proxcie offline. this wont be done for any other reason than because either the BPI, with the financial backing of the rest of the entertainment industries, will just keep going back to court, appealing any and all rulings that says it is not illegal to run the proxie, until there is no money left to fight against it or because the government and the courts give their backing to the BPI and then make it illegal for the proxie to continue operating. i wouldn’t be surprised if there is a joint venture here. what the government and courts need to be very careful of is opening the flood gate for anyone else running a proxie being put in the same position and forced to take it off line because another party objects to what that proxie is running for and making available. it could be anything and anywhere, affecting things like politics, religion, banking, speech against a dictatorship, anything! what, for example, would have happened if there had not been ways round getting information out of Syria or Egypt and released to the rest of the world?
Angry Voter

Do they really want to set this precedent?

BPI member corporations knowingly supplied money to artists that can reasonably be expected to spend it on drugs and prostitutes. That’s a crime. Would they like to be held personally liable?

Government party members voted for interventions that led to torture and murder. Please set a precedent that they can be held personally liable.
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someguest

The domain to piratepart’s TPB proxy has no DNS for me as of today… I’m on BT internet. Anyone else getting this?

Seems they have taken it down or it has been blocked….
- IDIOCRACY
  
  I did not post that
  - IDIOCRACY
    
    but they are offline…
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      The alternative IP’s not, FYI
      
      And the guy stating this at the beginning of this thread calling himself IDIOCRACY should be a bit more inventive and original with his (nick) name.
    - IDIOCRACY
      
      Nice, did Disqus just F*ck with me or what….THe name changed now to someguest… but ok, just checking I was not getting schizophrenic. or took the wrong painkiller :P
http://twitter.com/jaguila_rojas Javier Aguila Rojas

la legislación europea en cuanto a internet se la pasan por la raja…eso
superfly fishyguy

If it’s criminal action being threatened then those ‘six’ should scream for legal aid, after all if Abu fuckwith Hamza can get it, then the rest of Britain should be entitled to it. If it’s Civil Action, the way to go is not to pay for a solicitor or a Barrister until it’s time for a court appearance, let them drag the paperwork out for the next couple of years or so, or go to CAB and plead for pro Bono.
Guest

The proxy is offline now.

Fuck you BPI.
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dqdfx

comedy.

Do they (BPI) realize what happens if you sue members of a party individually?

the results are not pretty, and the judges will likely not even allow it.
broke already

So the proxy is legal. so instead they wan to bankrupt the members with a frivolous lawsuit. The pirate party is going to become very wealthy with the counter suit for all the bpi/riaa’s stuff, Even if the mafiaaa drops the suit after this very clear extortion act.
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MarkH

one proxies goes offline, and 10 will appear. MPAA and BPI are mopping the floor with the fosset open. Kinda silly fight, because pirates will pirate more, and honnest people will stop buying and start to download, all because of their attitude. Kinda hillarious
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Sdfsdfiuhy

I personally like the analogy of I have a BMW and someone comes and takes it away, thats stealing.

Same scenario except I have a BMW and someone takes it away, makes a copy and gives me mine back. We both have BMW’s. win win.
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shuibeng225

http://al.ly/qxA
One of the few realists.

The problem with all you small minded nerds is that your argument completely falls apart on every level.

If file sharing was legal, then EVERYONE (minus the first time buyer) would eventually do it, creating zero revenue. Yes people should create for love and share to the people yadayada, but we are not 18 year old hippies living in the ’60s and can hopefully construct a more realistic view on the world.

How can multi million dollar movie franchises be continually funded and then shared for free, out of the goodness of peoples hearts? Without some form of regulation the production of new material would decline, theoretically to nil.

WAKE UP. The world does not run on the goodness of peoples hearts, and I for one would not really be jumping at the chance to spend $10million and 12 months of work to then give it away. But you are obviously not on the ‘creative’ side.
- Hues
  
  Piracy has no effect on revenue in the real world. “if everyone” is a Kantian categorical imperative that exists in philosophy. Not the real world. Hollywood makes crap loads of money and is progressively more profitable every year. Then they use childish moral comparisons and you drink the kool-aid and pick up a flag for their cause. Yay sheep!
Rar

I think we need some one or group to dig in to the lives of these big music exec’s and find the real good low down dirt on them and make it public!
sijian405

http://ur1.ca/c4ee0
Guest

songs in digital format should be cheaper, i’m not gonna pay for literally nothing(you can’t hold,smell,see a mp3file
Asd

@ D3T & Others

At the end of the day philosophical debate is meaningless. Everyone knows that the side with the most lawyers wins. Consider this: 2012 was the year of both record piracy AND the most profitable year for the music industry.

This has no bearing on values or morals. Pick a side. Go to war.
Ongbakmuaythaikiller666

sharing is not stealing and why the fuck would i pay for music just to make some record company rich fuck that make music more readily available n cheaper n i wudnt have to download
Guest

I pay for the music,the CD becomes MINE once i buy it,i can do whatever i want with it-,break it,throw it,burn it,give away,share it,upload it :)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000446539923 Bruno Dias

So guys, seeing most of the comments, i get the idea that, most of you, are saying that all cultural multimedia products (music records, movies, games, …) get in the same boat, morally and legally. Are you so innocent, to think that? If yes, it’s fun to compare you to the behavior of machines, related to these kind of media: it’s all signal, it’s all the “same”. Do you get the analogy or do i need to write another post explaining it?

About music: of course that one could argue that sharing the music copies, for free, will improve artist career, by getting more people to know them and, as consequence, they get booked for gigs. Well, i agree with that kind of self-promoting BUT, the issue with it, is that it doesn’t work with all genres! For example, trance (the european cluster of styles), being managed by big corporation labels (Armada, Coldharbour, Anjunabeats), don’t allow small artists, who don’t lick corporate asses, to get gigs. And, if their music gets released, for free, absolutely no money enters their pockets. So, the problem here is the small guy not licking the right asses? Or is the music piracy? Or both are issues?
http://www.facebook.com/alec.mendonca Alec Mendonça

Musicians spend money, time and effort to record music. Creating is not costy, but once it gets out of your mind onto the tape it is. Recording is costy, no musician works for free, to get a decent guitar player is costy and to get a good studio to have your album recorded in is even more costy, engineers charge a lot to mix and master your album. If you play the guitar your chords have to be replaced as you record each song and the music stores don’t give away their products out of the beauty of your eyes, they are costy too. Manufacturing albuns so that they can get to a person is very costy, there’s artwork, distribution and marketing involved. Then, after the album reaches a person, this very same person finds himself on the right to distribute it on line for thousands of people and THAT IS illegal, there’s no excuse for that, you’re taking the property of someone else and giving it away to other people. Bare in mind that you’re not buying the songs that were composed and recorded, you’re buying the result of that and that is the CD you purchase for U$ 15,00 at EBAY, for example. If things were like that there would be no inventors, no patents, no Silicon Valley, no Microsoft or IBM or no APPLE, people would sit on their sofas and wait for someone to create something to then steal it. When doctors and lawyers start to work for free, then you can distribute music that is not yours for free too. Musicians need money and the only way to get it is from the sales of the albums, mainly the new acts. Making music is costy to the musicians and everyone else involved, and I, as a musician, can tell you that we do it out of love, because the royalties we’re supposed to earn with our album sales are stolen by people like you guys. And don’t even start with that non sense talk about getting money selling shirts and doing gigs, because everyone with a minnimum inteligence knows that only the big bands make big money with shows, because they are the ones with the infra structure to do so. So before you steal an album by distributing it, sometimes 2, 3 months before its release, think about the excellent musicians that, deprived of their income, will search another thing to do rather than music. And in the end, people who love good music are the ones that will lose.
Bill

I hate the music industry so much. Damn scum bags idiots don’t know what the hell their doing. They can’t fight the internet. Are they dumb?

TorrentFreak

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Music Industry Threatens to Bankrupt Pirate Party Members (Updated)

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