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Student Hit With $675,000 Fine in RIAA File-Sharing Case

Joel Tenenbaum has lost his trial against the RIAA and was ordered to pay $22,500 for each of the 30 songs he shared via Kazaa. Tenenbaum, who pleaded guilty to downloading and sharing files earlier this week, will be left paying off the $675,000 to the music labels for the rest of his life.

Tenenbaum, a graduate student from Boston admitted to downloading and sharing 30 songs in 2004, faced a fine up to $4.5 million – $150,000 per infringement. After a week long trial the jury eventually decided to award the RIAA $22,500 per song based on “willful infringement” mounting up to a total fine of $675,000 for Tenenbaum.

From the start it was clear that the only thing that the jury had to decide on would be the the size of the fine. The fair use defense was thrown out a few hours before the trial started, which shut down the only escape route left.

Tenenbaum’s defense team, headed by Harvard Professor Charles Nesson and his law students, were left powerless. “Undoubtedly, we were a creative and nontraditional legal team. But going into trial, we were stripped of all our attempts to mitigate Joel’s liability, so today’s outcome has been in the cards all week,” student Debbie Rosenbaum wrote.

This is the second win in little over a month for the RIAA. In June, Jammie Thomas-Rasset lost her retrial against the RIAA and was ordered to pay $1.92 million for the 24 songs she shared via Kazaa.

RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy told TorrentFreak that the ‘damages’ will not go to any of the artists, but to more anti-piracy campaigns. “Any funds recouped are re-invested into our ongoing education and anti-piracy programs,” he said.

In total, the RIAA has spent over a million dollars on this case alone, to set an example to the millions of people who share files every day. Time will tell whether or not the verdict will have any impact at all, aside from ruining a student’s life and alienating a few million music fans.

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  • Anonymous

    RIAA has kicked the little man in the nuts once again. What is wrong with these people on the jury?

  • Whitey

    And this has what I have been saying for years. This is what people get for using stupid things such as kazaa, limewire, bearshare, winmx, napster. Heck even thepiratebay, isohunt, suprnova, and trackers like that. They have been watching kazaa for awhile now I even know a friend in real life that got busted using it. After what he found out about the program it’s no wonder they catch you. People need to think and stop using crappy stuff that will get them caught. It’s all about torrents and private trackers now. Heck use newsgroups if you don’t want to use torrents, my ISP provides free newsgroups with internet service.

  • doom and gloom

    The last sentence of this article says it all. They certainly have alienated me thats for sure.

  • jack

    That’s what happens when you don’t have proper representation. Harvard or not, that guy is a kook.

    J.

  • 56Killer

    You share 30 songs and ruin your life forever and your flag as a pirate for life.

  • sean

    welll i guess the riaa is no longer suing individuals but the riaa wont want to many cases like this one thats for sure esp going to court ….its given music fans a reason to not want to buy music ever again …

  • steve

    I would get out of the US ASAP if that was me. There is a whole world out there to start afresh.

  • Concat

    Torrents and private trackers aren’t immune to prying eyes y’know…

    Hell you’re better off going to those rapidshare type music blogs…

  • circle c

    Keep looking for someone to blame—jury, judge, music biz etc..How about the constitution, Article 1, Section 8? Amend that if you can and you’ll be free to steal whatever you like.

  • jebus

    @2…he was charged for sharing songs from 5 years ago. kazaa and limewire were still really popular then. a lot of people at my university use limewire…which is really sad. but yeah, whenever i show people how to download torrents i really stress to them how important it is to run peer guardian or any other IP filter.

  • Denver Dan

    @1 The damages are ridiculous, but the defendant admitted in court to downloading and distributing, so what did you expect? Quoting from http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2009/07/court-reverses-itself-will-direct.html – The last question asked by Mr. Reynolds on direct examination was Question: “Mr. Tenenbaum, on the stand now, are you now admitting liability for downloading and distributing all 30 sound recordings that are at issue and listed on Exhibits 55 and 56 of the exhibits?” Answer: “Yes.” Notwithstanding the protestations of Tenenbaum’s counsel, Tenenbaum’s statement plainly admits liability on both downloading and distributing, does so in the very language of the statute (no “making available” ambiguity) and does so with respect to each and every sound recording at issue here.

  • Reasoned Mind

    A virtual ideal outcome for the plaintiffs. High enough to make the point that Joel’s repeated and arrogant infringement for years (even after legal warning) should not and does not pay, yet barely over one-fourth the award against Jammie, so this award is more likely to survive constitutional scrutiny. Virtually perfect.

    I love that Joel lied under oath and then tried to blame it on his own sisters. Who ever said pirates are classy? lol

    Artists, their agents and people everywhere who believe we should pay for the merchandise we take from our shared digital marketplace…… celebrate justice by an evenhanded jury. Well done.

  • zzenn

    Peer Guardian is false protection. No protection at all really..

  • http://neuron2neuron.blogspot.com Ben Jones

    @jebus (#10)
    There is no evidence ANYWHERE that such blocklists do anything. There is strong evidence though that at best they’re useless, at worst they make you an easier target. Some past articles on the topic – http://neuron2neuron.blogspot.com/search/label/bluetack

  • Zush

    So what happens when you owe all that money but don’t have it?

  • Rabbit80

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought it was written in the constitution that damages could not be awarded to act as a deterrent to others, but should be a deterrent to the defendant and reflect the actual damages suffered… That alone should be grounds enough for appeal (along with the fact that $675000 is an obscene amount of money for 30 songs and more than likely more than the combined profits from the songs + the cost of recording and distributing them by traditional means!)

  • Sendaii

    Tenenbaum used Kazaa, was caught and fined. Thomas-Rasset used Kazaa, was caught and fined. See the pattern here?

    Stay the hell away from Kazaa. It’s full of spyware and adware anyway. Use BitTorrent, with a good strong VPN that keeps no logs and you’re set.

    It probably doesn’t help that he was represnted by a bunch of law students either. If I were him, I really wouldn’t have felt comfortable with that kind of defence.

  • klm6789t

    Well, this happens because the americans chose the best goverment for protecting all the evil interests from the RIAA…

    Perhaps the people didn’t exactly know who ‘Joe Biden’ really is, and how corrupt and sold he is to the interests of the RIAA.

  • Anonymous

    And this is why I’m glad we have sane copyright “laws” (which no one enforces) and having my ISP cache a metric fuckton of torrents.

  • meh

    lets be honest here. there really is no point in fighting these cases. the bad guys always win. they own everything and everyone. crappy world we live in.

  • Random

    I haven’t bought a DVD or CD for the last 5 years because of cases like this.. AND I WILL NEVER EVER BUY anything from them in the future either no matter what they do.

  • Binsy

    I honestly hate everything about the RIAA. Stuff like this makes me never want to buy music ever again.

    Bunch of bullying rich fat cats who cant seem to understand there is a massive lack of decent legal online distribution.

    Maybe they should lobby the labels to do something decent with their money rather than using their overwhelming finances and legal power to pick on single individuals and screw up the rest of their lives for downloading a few songs. Arseholes!

  • moep

    Reasoned Mind gtfo please ..

  • Sendaii

    @23: Leave the guy alone, he has an opinion just like the rest of us.

  • doom and gloom

    Come on unreasonable mind you have to admit here that no matter what the person said, that amount of money is obscene. Now I am not defending the guilty BUT, the fine is outlandishly severe. Where are the jury pulling that figure from eh? I am not going to be sceptical and say they were paid off or anything like that, but they pulled that figure out of thin air.

  • klm6789t

    Moral of the story:

    You don’t live in a country so corrupt as USA, where corporations have more power than the government and the institutions; and never choose to ‘Charles Nesson’ and his team from Harvard for representing to you in a court, because they have demonstrated to be very incompetent lawyers.

  • Whitey

    I’m sorry but the US people have lost there rights many years ago it’s sad but true. Oh and stay the hell away from kazaa as that seems to be the number 1 place they are catching people.

  • Hicks

    @reasoned mind

    “Artists, their agents and people everywhere who believe we should pay for the merchandise we take from our shared digital marketplace…… celebrate justice by an evenhanded jury. Well done.”

    Are you people seriously patting yourselves on the back? You’ve just successfully strengthened the resolve of untold millions of file-sharers across the globe to willfully and maliciously never pay for digital media ever again.

    What are you going to do? Keep digging until you hit Australia?

    Enjoy the dole queue reasoned mind.

  • Rekrul

    Buy a second hard drive, the exact same brand and size as the first. Install Windows and all the same drivers and software on it (except for file sharing software of course). Copy over only your innocent files, such as email and stuff (assuming you don’t brag about what you downloaded in email). Do this BEFORE getting sued. Update it periodically, but don’t USE it on a regular basis. If sued for copyright infringement, swap the drives and use it for a few days, rebooting once each day, so that the registry backups and such are up to date. Set the browser to clear the cache, cookies and history on exit and don’t store any passwords. Needless to say you should NOT download copyrighted material during that time or use it to play any downloaded content. Pack up all your burned discs and put them in the attic or the cellar as well as any old systems you have and obviously the original hard drive. If you want to be extra safe, have a relative hold them for you. When the copyright people come knocking, point them to your computer and tell them that’s the only system you have.

    All they will see is a hard drive with an installation of Windows that dates to before they decided to sue you, but with no evidence of copyright infringement.

  • Whitey

    I really do not mind paying for a cd / movie if it is worth it. I how ever hate paying 16.99-19.99 and even higher for a cd and get it home and listen to it and there is only 2 maybe 3 good songs on it. If I download a full albume and it is good I will however go and buy it. If there is a good song or 2 and they have singles out for it I will buy those instead. I am sick of the over priced stuff. You can’t blame the over priced stuff on the downloading either this started years ago before downloading got very big. Maybe if artist actually took the time to make something good people might actually support them more until then we will stick to the good old interwebz :)

  • TheSpark

    Its sad that our legal system allows this. I hope an appeal court overrules this.

    Either way, this is once again a wasted effort by the RIAA. They spent over a million dollars on the case, got a $650K judgement. They will NEVER see more than 50K of it throughout his life. Probably not even close to that. In other words, they through away a million dollars (which makes me happy).

    End result of this: Nothing. Piracy, in all its glory, will continue. It will get stronger. We will, believe me, defeat these criminals. The RIAA will die away because they refuse to accept the technological age. They have already alienated their consumer base.

    Free access to all the media you want and need is a great thing. I’m glad to know it will only continue to get better. I’m glad that even though the RIAA has the power to ruin a few people’s life, they are powerless to stop piracy.

    Share on my friends. Do it for the sake of freedom. Do it for the sake of this poor kid. Don’t let his unfortunate situation go down in vein. Share on.

  • nWo

    Glad i live in Canada, can download as much music/movies as I want.

  • Whitey

    I run all my stuff over the network I do all the downloading on the server in the closet. I use my main pc to do the everday stuff and things but I stream my movies to the tv and I stream my music as well that way there is nothing on the main PC. I have never ever had an issues been doing this for God nows how long. If it came down to it though I just unplug that server and have a friend take it and pack it away at there place. They can search my main PC all they want nothing on it.

  • Misa

    I’m not trying to side with the RIAA but I agree with both Whitey and sendaii. Why can’t people learn that services like Kazaa are just trouble? Stop using adware-filled crap like that and play it safe when downloading.

  • Reasoned Mind

    “that amount of money is obscene.”

    No it isn’t. Not by a long shot. It’s exactly (and only) 15% of what the jury could have awarded. Fifteen percent, after years of infringement, ignoring warnings, reinstalling Windows to clean the evidence, lying under oath. This kid was handed a very just settlement by a jury far more lenient than Jammie’s.

    Remember that statutory damages are not punitive, stat damages are *intended* to deter, and only 15% of the possible isn’t outsized at all considering the size of the problem and the difficulty of the enforcement. Sending a clear message is the point.

    And it’s not out of thin air at all. It’s on the low side of $750-$150,000 per work, exactly as the law is written and exactly as the jury was instructed. Why would you even suggest it’s some sort of made-up figure?

    You sound a bit like one of those who say that $.99 a song is the right figure, so “if you catch me I just wind up paying what it should cost—it’s a wash– and if you don’t, I’ve gotten over you again.” Not this time.

    Judge Gertner, not incidentally, was clearly predisposed to Nesson (who she referred to Joel in the first place) and NOT the recording industry whom she has criticized many times. If anything she made clear she was biased AGAINST the RIAA. The jury were regular folks from near where Joel lives just as they should be, and this was exemplary in its justice from beginning to end.

    Only 15% of what he could have gotten.
    Joel deserves every penny of this.

  • Foo

    @Rekrul – That won’t work at all. They don’t need your HD, they use IP records from your ISP.

  • jack

    Actually, what really bugs me is regardless of the verdict, the RIAA still simply screws the end user. This has absolutely nothing to do with paying artists what they deserve. Even if he straight up paid the fine, no artist will ever see a nickel of it. Which is supposed to be the point in the first place. Sadly, this is not the case.

    J.

  • Rabbit80

    @rekrul

    Don’t be so daft – simply install truecrypt and use a hidden partition for your copyrighted stuff. When they ask for your password, give them the “safe” one and they can search your hard disk to their hearts content! (even if they sieze your computer without prior warning!)

  • J

    Point ist Neeson NEEDED this award!

    Why this is not about liabilty this is about the CONSTITUTION.

    There was a Supreme Court ruling that even damages of 10:1 are excessive.

    22500:1 is in violation of the constitution and a man who has nothing to loose is at his most dangerous.

    Joel Tenelbaum and Jammie Thomas will fight to the Supreme Court because they have NOTHING to lose!

    This is about the excessive damages and corruption/bullying of the RIAA and nothing else!

  • Whitey

    using an IP does not prove anything. I don’t know how many times I have been at a friends house and used his wireless mean while I see 4-5 + other networks unsecured. The problem is with wireless you have to know how to set it up as well. Most of the time the average person are noobs all they do is pull it out of the box make sure there laptop / PC can hook up to it and call it good. So how do they prove it’s you or someone stealing your wifi?

  • TheSpark

    @Whitey

    Actually, using your open wifi as an excuse for the reason you had file sharing on your network (IP) is a strong legal defense.

    If you even try to use it, the cowards at the RIAA will back away.

  • goodfish

    http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?i=57320319&id=315348503

    An interview with the attorney before the trial started. Interesting.

  • Rabbit80

    @Whitey

    I have also seen cases where people were unknowingly connecting to their neighbours wireless because it was unsecured and their wireless card choose it as a prefferd network over the secure one of their own!

  • Whitey

    My point is how do they know it is you on the IP that is doing the downloading? The IP might prove it goes to your home but if your not smart enough to set up a wireless network so it does not allow unwanted people in then anyone walking or driving by can use it. So if you really have not done anything wrong they can’t prove crap.

  • TheSpark

    Whitey: The main issue is that the RIAA doesn’t understand this. Nor do they care. Criminals like them rarely care about if your are innocent or not. They want to steal you money and will find any way possible to do so.

    They really can’t prove it unless they get a hold of your hard drive or you admit to it.

  • Whitey

    iTunes is a joke when you install iTunes your are forced to use there software it converts it all over to there stuff from your mp3 and if you try to use another player well your pretty much SOL. My dad had this problem and when he wanted to convert all his music back from iTunes well it was a bitch and a half.

  • d[iO]nysus

    @35

    I want to see how cocky you are when our Pirate Party starts getting seats, too.

  • ohthespin

    “Private Trackers” muahahahahahah,
    Only reason i don’t post the list of VIPs and PUs from bittorrent private trasckers here that are actually spying and using block accounts is to keep them doing their job there.

    There is no SAFE torrent tracker, filesharing for the sheep is torrents.

  • Whitey

    Well they are welcome to my hds any time they want I have nothing to hide :) I’m smarter then them over priced greedy bitches.

  • _:_

    Well in some ways the outcome was good in the sense that it will drive even more people over to ‘I hate RIAA and will never pay for a cd again’, hurt them where it hurt the most – in their wallet. I for one will never ever spend a single dime on media from a big corporation anymore.

  • Whitey

    “ohthespin”

    That’s b/c you do not have any proof I’m sure if you did you wouldn’t be stupid enough to post here that you did. Also if you are staff at a private tracker with high enough access which I doubt you even have your even stupider to post your comments like that here.

  • Ralonto

    Bribed/lobbied/etc. most likely. I think the judge will enjoy his/her blood money. Either way, it’s been a long time since I’ve had any trust in any legal system at all.

  • Rabbit80

    I wonder what effect IPV6 will have – will IPV6 addresses be as easy to trace?

  • Wrongness

    This is wrong, how can a company be happy with fining ordinary people, Fines should be no more than $100 per song. So they have a change at paying back, will the RIAA even bother collecting the money or do they just care about wining trials to show they are “tough”

  • Hicks

    @ reasoned mind

    So reasoned mind, I have a question for you.

    Given the number of file sharers there are in the world, 7 million of a population of 61 million in the uk alone:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8073068.stm)

    Given that the vast majority have no intension of stopping.

    Given that there aren’t enough legal resources in the world to deal with every single one of us. And given the internets global nature makes any national legislation completely ineffective anyway.

    Given all that. WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU INTEND TO DO ABOUT IT?

    Feel free to contradict any of my above points. I’ve been coming to TF now for the last few months just to enjoy your ranting and raving as you bang nails onto your own coffin. I love it. :)

  • TheSpark

    Wrongness: it will be years before they can even collect a cent. This will probably be appealed all the way to the supreme court. At some point the RIAA will probably just give up on it.

  • m3th0d

    It cannot be emphasised enough, when challenged by the MAFIAA state that your uploads are limited and that not long after you’ve received files you usually remove them (or stop seeding) promptly.

    State that for any fine to be levied there should be reasonable evidence to account for the number of units of product that were downloaded, rather than to take an inflated value based almost solely on conjecture from the party claiming damages.

    Otherwise 10x the price of buying the content should be a cap/limit on the inflatory figure provided by the MAFIAA.

    In the case of Joel reasonable damages should be approx $300.

    (based on MP3 download prices from Amazon and a reasonable amount of full units of product that Joel is likely to be responsible for actively distributing)

    Fees so exhoribitant and a “justice” system offering such insanely disprortionate damages to THAT level are the sort of thing that can make someone go crazy.

    Even a mortgage isn’t that expensive.

    If, as an organization, you go out of your way to destroy an individuals life (and largely through the fact you’ve got enough money to get lobbyists to write laws that act against the majority’s interests) you deserve every last bit of revenge that individual can possibly exact against you.

    Keep destroying people’s lives like this and eventually someone with access to an SMG will flip and turn up at the RIAA’s HQ lobby.. looking to demonstrate that they too can be effective at destroying people’s lives.

  • Torrentino

    Wait, the RIAA spent over a million on the case, yet wants to gain $675K?

  • m3th0d

    ^ Please note my last paragraph in the post above refers to the RIAA’s “victim” flipping, just to be absolutely clear.

  • m3th0d

    @Reasoned Mind … your post indicates that you make the assumption that the current law (largely influenced by lobbyists from the likes of MPAA/RIAA/etc) is remotely fair.

    When it’s a case of personal use, without profit involved, the law is completely unfair. Really, if we just cut out the middle-man, we could have the MPAA and RIAA write all the laws pertaining to copyright… because effectively, it’s not far off the truth and it would save everyone time, effort and money… and we know those callous, money-wasting bastards care about MONEY more than anything.

    Another thing “Reasoned” Mind… It costs $1,000,000 to be awarded $675,000. If the RIAA really represented artists (rather than the big labels and their executives), it would have just wasted $325,000 of artist’s money on negative PR for themselves.

    Do the math and you’ll realize this case is retarded.

  • BioShockerT81

    It is really a sad world we live in when people are so stubborn and determined to enjoy things without paying for them that the only alternative left for the copyright owners is to pick up a person and tear their life apart in hopes of scaring the rest of people into respecting their rights. And the worse thing is, the pirates are more likely to ignore this and go on ruining every industry based on intellectual property.

    I’d like to say this will teach the pirates that they can’t evade the law and the consequences of breaking it forever, but unfortunately, it will take a lot more than a few cases to accomplish that.

  • dave

    to reasoned mind and all other pro copyright people (if indeed it is you and not another person who commented here)

    c’mon:

    675,000 for taping 30 songs…..-sigh- …. and without getting money for it…..

    you should ALL be really, REALLY ashamed of yourselves by saying this is justice!

    I pity you.

    go to africa and feed the poor.

  • Hicks

    @BioShockerT81

    Honestly dude. Have you ever read 1984? It’ll take nothing less than society like that to stop us.

    Unless there’s the resolve to impose a global police state, where every sigle form of communication is monitored, we can’t be stopped.

  • hot sex gary

    keep in mind that all the money the riaa has blown on these cases is also technically stolen from artists, however this sort of theft (of money) seems excusable, whereas sharing music (for no monetary gain) is somehow punishable by fines.

  • Skittles

    It’s just going to hit a point where one of their victims is going to show up at the RIAA/MPAA HQ’s and just go on a killing spree…

    I’d illegally download that video so hard.

  • Phill

    I see a market for battery powered external HDD enclosures with a wipe button.

    If they take it and you ‘accidentally’ press the button, magically zero’s start appearing across the whole drive and they’ll have to physically disassemble the enclosure to stop it.

    Even a attempt at recovering data from a zero’d drive will cost them tens of thousands, if the recovery company even accepts the job.

  • Skittles

    @Phill

    Or a cryptex style, vile of sulfuric acid trap, that when a button is pressed or the enclosure is force open, the entire drive is destroyed on the inside.

  • Joe

    who the hell are on these jury’s? 90yr old conservatives?

    The defense gets a hand in choosing the jury so why aren’t they getting young individuals who have downloaded songs themselves? that’s how you win the trials, get others who infringe on the jury for pete’s sake.

    Who the hell uses p2p anymore for songs anyways, that’s how they can track you. get usenet with ssl and you’re safe.

    Or, just get sirius satellite radio, $15 a month, hundreds of channels, and don’t bother downloading music anymore and stick to movies. Don’t hear of anyone getting sued over downloading movies now do you?

  • BioShockerT81

    @64 Aug 01, 2009 at 01:12 by Hicks:

    Probably. Which is exactly why it is so sad. This sordid little game of cat and mouse will go on and on, leaving thousands of ruined lives along it’s path, a broken industry, and every time less privacy on the internet. All because pirates insist on finding it cool to get without give, to take a small, petty personal advantage at the expense of the collective downfall. Sigh.

  • Le Fake

    I absolutely don’t like jury trials. It’s a fact that emotions play way too big role in cases involving a jury.

    What I’d like to know is why exactly $22,500 per song? Pulled out of the hat by some smart ass?

  • BioShockerT81

    @69 Aug 01, 2009 at 01:30 by Joe: The young folks who pirated themselves quite likely, when presented with the evidence first hand of the huge damages illegal filesharing inflicted on the industries, got ashamed of their behavior and tried to make personal amends by giving a proper veredict on the matter.

  • Hicks

    @

    “This sordid little game of cat and mouse will go on and on, leaving thousands of ruined lives along it’s path, a broken industry, and every time less privacy on the internet.”

    Thousands of ruined lives? Come on mate, the vast majority of people working in the record industry are admin. Pen-pushers. And pen-pushers are required in all walks of life. So they won’t be falling on hard times will they.

    And musicians can fall back on live performance, just like how they earned a crust before these fanged wax cylinder things we’re invented anyway. And lets face it 98% of all musicians today get paid by the hour. Only a select few attempt to make a living off the 1% of total the royalties they get from relinquishing their copyrights of their compositions to a record company. And we all know they get shafted for their effort.

    All thats happened is the internet has made it so musicians can now form direct relationships with their fans, in any form they choose, without the need for middle men. And the middle men are all like “boo, hoo”. But admin is admin, don’t make like these people will be starving, there are office jobs going if they want them.

    And you never know, some of them might actually find a way to make a slightly more valid contribution to society.

    [hey I feel sorry for some of the recording engineers but thats about it].

  • dave

    amen to the poster above!

  • BioShockerT81

    @72 Hicks:
    The “thousands of ruined lives” bit referred specifically to the people caught in the trials, having to pay enormous fines without even having the means to pay for them.

  • Zerghumper

    I seriously think the fine limits under US law need to be rethought. Seriously if I download 20 songs you can assume that, that maybe equals the lost sale of 1 CD, so say $15.00. And then assume he shared it with 1,000 people, then the most he should be charged is $15,000. Where the hell did they pull a huge number like $675,000 out of?

  • oh yeah

    man what is wrong with jury n record labels period, almost everyday its somethin they waste their time with its dumb ass hell, once again couldnt agree more with what i jus said

  • Reasoned Mind

    I’d have to agree with #70, BioShocker, too.

    Hicks, if you are saying it’s an either/or situation, either 1) a global police state is inevitable or 2) the digital format is the beginning of the end of industry and digital commerce as we know it and the collective global sense of property ownership, then I’d say the police state will absolutely continue to grow. I’ve been saying for years that piracy and hacking and so on will take the blame for every part of this.

    It’s hard to imagine worldwide government and industry simply abandoning the miracle of digital product and distribution because some small percentage of the population (7.1m out of 61m from your link) won’t respect it.

    Then consider that the industries you are ransacking actually bring you the network in the first place.

    Then consider that it is all under the governments ultimate jurisdiction as well.

    And this problem is very new. Now consider that every country will either eventually agree or be significantly ostracized in trade, communication, military alliance. You think the world is getting bigger, Hicks? I don’t.

    And not only will the consortium of industry and government have the motivation and the tools, they also have the (vast) majority of the peoples sense of fairplay behind them to do it. Piracy has slowed our digital future, Hicks, not facilitated it. Joel is part of a problem called online thieving. Joel screws it up for the vast majority.

    Most folks don’t even know who the RIAA is, and don’t care either, and their vote counts just as much as yours does. Most folks understand what BioShocker suggested too; that is, like Joel’s jury, it’s fair to pay for merchandise you take. You’ve been on the wrong side of history all along.

    Most important Hicks, don’t think for one minute your kind of anarchic mindset that populates TF and other similar sites has anything to do with reality, dude.

    Pirates post things like “revolution”, and gunning down industry exec’s in their offices. As the police state tightens, think you’ll get far with that, too, Hicks?

    You are part of the warped but entertaining minority fringe, sir, and always will be. Compel a police state?….. get a police state and today, Joel got his.

    :-)

  • klitoratii

    if you use limewire or kazaa, even if it was 5 years ago you’re gona get snapped. thats becoz those programs suck and anyone who uses them is a moron. i do feel sorry for this guy though as people don’t deserve to be “made examples of” just so the music industry can keep trying to scare people away from p2p. shame on you RIAA and the rest of your goons i.e. lawyers and hackers.

  • Phoenix

    they wont get paid :)

  • klitoratii

    to all those people posting stuff against pirates too. don’t kid yourself, you’re on here because at some point, in some moment of “weakness” you resorted to piracy and now u have the balls to try and claim that its the downfall of the industry and you’re not to blame? i don’t think so dips**ts. grow up coz anyone who defends a fine of $22,000 per song is not only in serious need of help, they should be shipped off to somalia where they can learn the true value of their currency as well as what their country does to other countries it doesn’t care for.

  • MrGz0r

    i think people that say pg is bulshit should not use it for a mouth and see if they get niped,i be lafing always i feel sorry for the guy and i hope the pirate bay stays around for a long long time :)

  • Kevin

    The so called land of the free sets an example again. Murder & Rape is acceptable, but don’t you dare share a song. What an evil country the US is.

  • Hicks

    @reasoned mind

    But you still haven’t answered my question. What exactly are you going to do about it?

    Do you seriously think that any government has the computing resources to compete with the totality and combined resources of the worlds IT computing geeks. What, thousands of coders versus many millions? File sharing technology has constantly evolved way faster than any attempts to combat it. If you tuned off the the internet and all phone lines in the world tomorrow, how long do you think it would take us to turn on our wireless connections and write the code to fire up the net wirelessly. The beta would be out in a fortnight.

    And as far as your lala about peoples sense of fair play, people not knowing who the RIAA are, blabla, etc. May I remind you that the vast majority of the worlds population are 3RD WORLD. They’ll take anything they can get, they don’t care about anything you’ve spouted above, and they are all coming online now. Do you honestly thing anything you’ve said means anything to them?

  • hmm

    yeah, its not right.

    It seems that you get hit harder in court for sharing a small amount of songs on the internet then you do for armed robbery or rapping someone.

    Troubling times indeed.

  • dave

    at reasoned mind:

    Did you know the ‘police’ in some countries already are fed up going after simple pirates?

  • BoKo

    That what happens when living in a country like US.. Come here an try to sue us.. if anyone gets sued, i am sure that the verdict will be printed from a computer using Pirated MICROSOFT WINDOWS which we downloaded off TPB!! :D

  • Fail

    The RIAA spends millions on their lawsuits, but the judgments will never be paid. A solid investment.

  • Anonymous

    Speaking of which, Windows 7 RTM runs great :P

    This must have been initiated a few years ago at least because KaZaa has all but totally vanished from the internet scene. Private trackers (with VPNs), Direct Downloads, Newsgroups and even ed2k with VPNs are they way to go…KaZaa not so much but the damages are ridiculous.

    Not only did they ruin this kid’s life with debt but it won’t deter any real file-sharers, it will simply force them further underground.

  • lastbastard

    This is RIAA Justice. $22,500 per song, each song costs 99 cents at iTunes and less at other online music shops.

    Never forget this day. Never.

  • Hicks

    Hey reasoned mind?

    No comeback for my 3rd world shtick?

    Don’t be like that. I love you man! Please introduce me to your mate Neostyles. I love him too. :)

  • lold there

    gheez I rather spend 1 month in jail

  • Jeff

    What a hollow victory for the RIAA. Joel will most likely end up declaring bankruptcy and they will not get even one penny of the judgement they have won.

    And as for the artists, they won’t get anything from the judgement (if in the extremely unlikely case the RIAA is able to collect on it).

    The only true winners here are the lawyers.

  • Skittles

    Do they actually expect to get paid at all? He’s a student, and we all know students don’t have money.

    It’ll be appealed anyway, so we’ll here about it again in about.. 2 years maybe?

    Also it sorta makes sense to have a Harvard student defense… since you don’t have to pay your friends :P

  • Whitey

    Man I love the interwebz just started another 8gigs of music downloads :) Man I love torrents.

  • Hicks

    “Man I love the interwebz just started another 8gigs of music downloads :) Man I love torrents.”

    Amen brother! :)

  • m3th0d

    @BioShockerT81 … IF artists wish to capitalize on their aesthetic production they can do so by WORKING REGULARLY like everyone else… by touring, by using merchandise, through commerical royalties, etc.

    Still plenty of profit to be made for the talented if they didn’t have industry leeches screwing them over, angering their fans with extortionate law suits against individuals, etc. and take a dispropotionate take of the profit simply because they have a system rigged (rather than actually being the ones with talent).

    Fortunately, mainstream commercial filler crap is soulless, messageless and pointless so I run very little risk of getting stung by big labels – I don’t even download their crap and will not support their industry… not even by promoting their artists in my own home to friends. Their loss…

    I prefer to expose my friends to indie labels covering various genres as they deserve more support and usually don’t have their message compromised by stupid f**king labels.

  • Ninja

    LoL.. Lame. I’ve seen comments quoting US constitution and stuff like that and classifying file-sharing as stealing. Please don’t generalize people… While there are people really making money by selling those songs on the streets, the majority never earns a single cent out of the downloaded stuff and a large % of those people actually buy the stuff they liked (after downloading).

    I don’t think he was asked if he had any original stuff and why he downloaded those songs and didn’t buy them. As for distributing, any file-sharing process includes you distributing part or all of the content you are downloading. Still, you never make money out of it (and may even spend depending on the isp).

    Oh well, when stupid people are in charge of the justice and even worse people are lobbying for their pockets you can’t expect much…

  • diarRIAA

    The only true people that get harmed by file sharing are NOT the artists that the RIAA claims to protect, but the entire lives and future of those the RIAA sues. When I share a song, am I jeopardizing an artists life? Am I jeopardizing their future? Am I jeopardizing them forever? No. But by the RIAA suing a student, YES, they are harming a real breathing living human being. Who knows. Maybe this student was meant to discover the cure for cancer, or an engineer that was destined to design a device that would create a permanent water supply for third world countries, or perhaps he was destined to engineer a new form of technology that would reverse the effects of global warming.

    What complete BLLSHT, and the RIAA doesn’t realize that this type of action does nothing but creates a backlash by music fans.

    FCK the RIAA. I don’t think I have EVER in my entire life truly despised a group as much as I hate them. I can see how and why so many people just wish these parasites would be blown off of the face of this planet forever. I truly and absolutely HATE them.

  • klm6789t

    68:
    who the hell are on these jury’s? 90yr old conservatives?
    —-

    Nope. Any citizen with a minimum of common sense wouldn’t have been in agreement with a decision as unjust and cruel as hurting the entire life of a person by something so irrelevant as sharing a few songs with others.

    The only and UNIQUE possibility is that the RIAA bribed the entire jury. This is something that in other opportunities already has happened in the USA justice system.

    For me is very strange that nobody would have realized this, including the defense lawyers and Charles Nesson, and worse, that nobody took precautions for avoiding this disaster.

    The only thing demonstrated in this trial is the high degree the corruption in the USA justice system and the total incompetence from the modern lawyers for defending and protecting civil and basic human rights.

  • ConspiracyOfPiracy

    There is no way pirating will *ever* stop. It will only continue to grow as time goes on, guaranteed. Why?
    Because we live in the digital age. Any media that can be made into a computer file (audio, video, photographs/still images, software etc) is essentially up for grabs. How can people honestly not realize this?
    The internet is just too powerful as well as too ubiquitous to fight it. The world needs to wake up and realize that licensing is dead. Period.

  • Isisson

    Reasoned Mind, to me you’re nothing more than a disgrace if you honestly believe hitting a kid with a $675,000 fine for downloading and sharing 30 music files is justice. You honestly make me sick to think that a person that demonstrates your level of intelligence can sit there as you do and in all your sophistry proclaim that as fair punishment. I honestly pity you.

    And about the Internet, here’s a newflash for you: It was never designed as a platform for industry to utilize as an enviroment for the furtherance of business. It is absolutely you and your ilk that want establishment of the so-called ‘police state’ that you so persistantly threaten specifically to allow for you the tools for which to manipulate the enviroment into something as being suitable for the establishment of your plans for business for the purposes of profit.

  • Ben

    this is how terrorists are born

  • Whitey

    I like how killswitch said it with an interview with them. They said hey who buys cd’s any more? So what we are doing is trying to add more things with the cd like a free shirt a concert ticket and so on. We know we don’t make much money off the cd sales anyways so we have to try new things and work around it.

  • methodic-man

    reasoned mind, you’re an utter jerk if you think this case means anything in the long run

  • .neo.styles|nvDX

    Wow. Im not so sure about whether you can can call people who don’t contribute to the artist music fans though. That’s an awfully one sided assessment.

    If I was the judge, i would place the fine at a few hundred per song, with 50/50 going to the label and the artist.

  • diarRIAA

    @reasoned tard

    It’s only justice if the kid could actually afford to pay the fine which he most likely never can. In addition, the RIAA is also driving more and more customers away from buying content, so winning this case was actually counter productive. In addition, your support for the RIAA isn’t based or reality, or even justice for that matter. It’s actually based on being mean spirited and having an ugly spirit.

    The RIAA winning a case against a music fan is like winning the special olympics. The RIAA may have won, but they’re still retarded.

    Thanks to the RIAA and tards like reasoned tard, this just makes people think of more creatively stealthy ways to go around sharing information through the internet. The RIAA and tards like you are actually playing a BIG hand in helping technology evolve in to something more private and more stealthy so that NO ONE can ever see or know what some kid is downloading or sharing.

    Thanks RIAA and reasoned tard. You’re actually making the world a better place for pirates. So go ahead…keep up the good work.

  • Soundwave

    If I could download food and water for free, I would.

    Advertising has worked for over a hundred years, yet they haven’t even tried using it.

    Let Warner Brothers (or whoever) host their latest movie or music on their site with advertisements spliced in before the show starts.

    Nobody wants to commit crimes, but the way I see it, they are trying to charge us for air.

  • TheSpark

    There is some good news guys. I was looking up the law. If this kid just files for bankruptcy the judgment will dissolve with it.

    Since the kid is young and probably doesn’t have a lot of assets he has probably nothing to lose in going ahead with bankruptcy.

  • m3th0d

    Charged 844 times the cost of the 800 MP3s he admitted to sharing even though realistically he probably shared no more than 10x each MP3 (10×800 MP3s = $8,000 not $675,000)

    Simply, ethically, morally… the fine is disgusting and disturbing levied against a young individual doing something relatively common at their age.

    RIAA.. You ruin people’s lives and for what… nothing more than doing what many other people their age do anyway. You are a disgrace to humanity.

    Everyone shouldn’t just stop at personally BOYCOTTING these assholes:

    - Actively promote the boycotting effort.
    - Educate other filesharers on the best legal defenses against their attacks.
    - Promote independent artists.
    - Make it so the message of “commercial=uncool” is drilled into your peers and even younger siblings so they can spread the word that ONLY independent artists deserve any support because of how the RIAA/MPAA/etc RUIN YOUNG PEOPLE’S LIVES… “you fund the RIAA and you will fund their efforts to destroy your life from your juvenile activities”.
    - dish out negative PR for the RIAA’s artists everywhere and anywhere you can.

    The objective isn’t to defend ourselves any more…

    This soulless, uneducational, meaningless, worthless, consumerism-promoting industry wants WAR…

    We should reciprocate…

    …we should destroy their industry!

  • Yo Do Yo

    Gee, guess I’ll have to stop

  • Okizoo

    Record labels are dreaming if they think they can stop sharing. The need to be more creative which determines success of a company and is at the heart of capitalism.

  • 7#3s0cra71cm37#0d

    @7 YES! I am from the US and couldn’t agree more. Shame on those jurors.
    @32 I envy you.

    Ok I see people citing the U.S. Constitution. Well don’t forget what Howard Zinn said when he talked of the blacks fighting for their rights down south. No piece of paper helped them avoid murderous and cruel mobs. And in fact the US government turned their back on the whole affair. Cops helped beat and sometimes murder human beings. They needed no piece of paper, they TOOK their liberty, they TOOK their freedom.
    Also the the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were written at a time when an entire indigenous population was murdered brutally in a genocide more complete and thorough than Hitler could have dreamed of. ALL their land was PIRATED from them so that it could be controlled by a select group of individuals, who being so versed in the ways of ‘piracy’ would make laws and build armies to prevent anyone from pirating from them. All this is coming from a white male by the way, in case you think I’m some militant.

  • digital rape

    Damn America, your laws are fucked.

    This reflects on the citizens from my perspective. You did nothing, now your stuck with the consequences. Was their any actual public debate on the DMCA or did you all just get taken advantage of like some drunk, passed out naked in an alley, surrounded by horny hobos. (it happens)

    Honestly im curious.

  • AnonBro

    I hope trolls like Reasoned Mind get testicle cancer.

  • Holly

    I foresee someone committing suicide…

  • Anonymous

    Assholes.

  • Jasper [i’m a pirate …..AARG

    if there is a case in america about copyright you will always lose because the judges and jury’s in america are always based if it is about file-sharing maybe they are bribed or someting!

    share-
    it’s faire

  • Anonymous

    how the fuck can the RIAA sleep at night, knowing that they ruined a young kids life with their outrageous fines. Being a musician myself, It doesn’t bother me to hear fans downloaded my music; if anything it gives us a broader audience. If they choose to buy the music thats great too, but the only people it is benefiting is the record company, not me.

  • PeaceofMind

    My favorite part of all this is a man can beat his wife to death and get a $25,000 fine and minor jail time. This kid didn’t kill anyone, for god’s sake he didn’t even put a dent in the RIAA’s leader’s platinum pool encrusted with jewels fund. Our legal system is so screwed up. People’s lives are put so far below the pocket books of the fat cats. This shouldn’t even be a trial… The kid is being used and just so the RIAA doesn’t have to try something new… like making good music more accessible (without DRM). Most people would spend money if they had any trust in these people…

    @ BioShocker and Reasoned Mind: I understand where you are coming from. Lying on the stand is a reasoned to be punished but can’t you see that these companies are making matters worse by ignoring their market? Punishing a kid so harshly will only hurt the largest population of music listeners.

    Good luck all you pirates, stay safe!

  • The Common Man

    ‘May I remind you that the vast majority of the worlds population are 3RD WORLD. They’ll take anything they can get, they don’t care about anything you’ve spouted above, and they are all coming online now.’

    Exactly! While the USA desperately attempts to maintain the outdated system of absentee ownership and property rights – the vast majority of this planet will happily continue enjoying the benefits of this new technology.

    You have to feel sorry for Americans. Being punished for sharing – what sort of society does that?

  • SL

    Its not a win for the RIAA, the guy will never pay that amount and they will lose more than he can ever pay with more people boycotting their product.

  • Anonymous

    He should have thought about the cost of the goods he was stealing and handing out for free before doing so.

    This is Grand Theft Audio, lock him up … and throw away the key.

  • paulm

    “that amount of money is obscene.”

    No it isn’t. Not by a long shot. It’s exactly (and only) 15% of what the jury could have awarded.

    ————————————

    Just because a jury awards less than the mximum doesn’t make it low!

    The maximum is there to the worst offenders.

  • poyo

    Is this even legal in the US constitution. is this even a law

    if so then amend it

    if the feminists can you can too

  • Patrick

    The fact that they are making examples out of some extremely unfortunate individuals (it could just as well have been you or me) is worrying and unacceptable. How is it in any way fair that someone is ordered to pay an outrageous fine that is primarily meant to scare off others? How about a punishment that fits the crime?

    I encourage these people to set up websites and ask for donations. We’re all pirates, we should all chip in a few bucks since these guys are essentially being used as scapegoats.

    Fuck the system.

  • drone

    Why the fuck does Reasoned Mind even bother posting here?

    I find it difficult to believe you’re some moral, upstanding citizen that simply believes in justice. Because justice, my friend, is obsolete in this decadent society, you simply snuggle the hand that feeds you.

    Enjoy your arrogance, ignorance, and bleeding conundrums. Your train of thought is headed for a barricade of reality.

  • nbucking

    If the fines are meant as a deterrent, then shouldn’t they be smaller? This isn’t as serious as say vehicular manslaughter (where fines rarely make it out of the tens of thousands, if any). So wouldn’t a small fine of say $1000 dollars per song be fine? Even that is ridiculous, but 22,500 per song is overincredulous.

  • StopMAFIAA

    Use TrueCrypt, create hidden partition and store copyrighted data on it. If caught, reveal only password for outer partition (for plausible deniability, fill it with legal images, documents, Open Source distros etc). Use “wireless defence”, say that your Wi-fi router was hijacked.

  • Rabbit80

    @123 – Already do ;)

  • AnarchyNow

    He should not pay a dime, the RIAA is a worse than nazi terrorist organization, he should sue them back for that and sue the goverment too

  • Dartsum

    In fact I think ruining someones live like this is even a far wors CRIME then copying 30 songs from the internet.

  • lmao

    Maybe they won the battle, but they will loose the war….

  • sk

    “In total, the RIAA has spent over a million dollars on this case alone, to set an example to the millions of people who share files every day.”

    ..for buying the jury i think is better to say

  • John

    TrueCrypt, as well as all other commercial cryptography applications sourced in the UK/USA, must provide the RSA/GCHQ the backdoor the the encryption. Usually, this is in the form of highly-reduced bruteforcing times.
    The more data that is encrypted, and the more standardized (as a hard drive’s file system is) the data, the easier it is to decrypt.

    In other words, TrueCrypt is great if you don’t want your girlfriend seeing your porn stash – unless of course, your girlfriend works for the NSA.

    In a case where a million-dollar conviction came down to an encrypted hard drive, i’m sure that the RIAA would ‘magically’ discover the password.

  • fuck greedy suits

    Well, I won’t ever be buying music from any record label again (other than independent, band-owned labels). Poor fucking guy.

  • BoycottTheRiAA

    Boycott these scum. Record labels are scumbags, not the artists.

    Give directly to the artists.

  • Jim Jensen

    Oh all he has to do is file bankruptcy and get it squashed. No biggie.

    RT
    http://www.anon-web-tools.us.tc

  • Taylor

    “Its sad that our legal system allows this.”

    I know, right? How horrible that we live in a country where a person who owns something can sue another person for stealing it.

    Look, I download files illegally. I don’t like the RIAA or the MPAA’s tactics as much as the next guy. That being said, though, they have every right to take us to court. Let’s not delude ourselves and act like we’re the Robin Hoods of the 21st Century…because we’re not.

  • Pimpin Dickens

    There’s only one thing left to do when this happens. Move to another country and change your identity.

  • Anonymous

    Next time someone gets picked, they should immediately file a counter claim for X counts of slander, liable. Where X is the number of songs they are accused of downloading. That and buy as many shares of sony corporation as they can. Thus how can you be accused of stealing of a what you already own?

  • Matt

    $22,500 per song? really? On what fuck**g basis? Dumbfucks RIAA and dumbfucks jury. That’s outrageous. Hope the guy never pays them a dime.

  • me

    RIAA has been a win win for the record industry. They never have to worry about getting their label names dragged through the publicity muck. If we stopped saying RIAA and swapped that out to SONY etc then maybe the bad publicity and angst that currently stalks RIAA would actually become attached to the music label names. That might cause them to reign in the heads. Yep, the exec who came up with the RIAA concept must feel pretty smug that his idea to deflect bad publicity away from label names where it may hurt already sluggish sales..worked damn well.

  • nbucking

    @132 I agree we are not ‘robin hoods’, but the reason is not what you think. It is simply the fact robin hood stole tangible goods. You know things that you can feel and smell. Someone had to work hard to find or make those ‘tangible goods’. As far as I can tell a digital copy is not tangible and did not take any hard work to create. Now now, I am not saying the original wasn’t hard to create, but a copy is not worth the same as the original. In fact, there are lots of copies of art out there that are valueless while the original is worth millions. Digital copies are valueless. It is up to the onlooker (those who view or listen to) to add value to that copy. If they wish to continue receiving quality art they must come up with away to support the artist.

  • Bob

    He’s a bum that’s bought all of this horsemanure floating around the web. We don’t have a right to make endless copies of other people’s work. Period. If you like the music, pay for it. There are plenty of ways to test it. If you think the music labels are scumsucking jerks, don’t support them. There’s plenty of free music out there. Sheesh.

  • Patrick

    @137
    The ‘something that can be reduced to ones and zeroes can’t be copyrighted’ line? Come on.

  • h33t

    kill the RIAA

    long live the artists

  • Pingback: RIAA fines student $675,000 for downloading 30 songs. 30 songs are not worth $675,000 fucking dollars « Netcrema - creme de la social news via digg + delicious + stumpleupon + reddit

  • anonymous

    A jury that would award that much money is filled with psychopaths i.e. Americans

  • Anonymous

    I’d always suspected the so-called ‘Reasoned Mind’ was a completely brainwashed MPAA/RIAA shill, but his/her/it’s comments in this thread have made it a certainty.

    To the above named (I refuse to refer to you as Reasoned Mind, because you simply aren’t), if you honestly believe that justice was done in this case then you are mentally unhinged.

    Why you are sucking the balls of commercial operations that don’t care an iota for you, I don’t understand.

    I do know, however, that it makes you a very dangerous person to associate with. I dread to think what pro-copyright drivel you spout to your friends. You’re adding to the problem.

    By all means, hide behind your arrogant and haughty pontification. You may well impress some weak-minded people, but you don’t cut any ice with anyone possessing even the slightest amount of sense or decency. Regardless of the way you say it, it’s clear how warped your views are on the matter of copyright and file-sharing.

    If nothing else, you’re an enigma. It’s beyond me how anyone can think what you think.

    I’ve said my piece, feel free to scream ‘ad hominem’ to make yourself feel better.

  • Rainydays1981

    I’m curious how is someone suppose to prove there innocence? Say I really never downloaded anything, how do I prove that vs same case where I did, and in both cases they have no computer with data on it?

    Really inerested in response here, thanx

  • Youcanbeuntraceable

    Buy a hacked cable modem for your downloading and use your paid modem to surf.
    I trade tb’s a month on a hacked surf board.
    No way to link it to me at all :)

  • Anonymous

    i got it. everyone who has ever shared a file or downloaded music/tv/movies should turn themselves in all at the same time. let them prosecute the entire north american continent.

  • J

    @11

    I semi agree with you, BUT I would say AT LEAST he was smart enough to plead guilty. What other choice did he have when the evidence was 100% against him? Obviously, he couldn’t have plead not guilty. Do you think the jury would have been a little more lenient on a liar? I guess I don’t see why you think he’s a moron for admitting that he downloaded the songs. I can say, though, that he is lucky that he had the defense of a Harvard professor with law students by his side. I can’t help but think of the others who are not as fortunate. The record industry is dying, and they’re trying to squeeze every penny out of their once loyal customers.

  • Brad

    It has been 3 years since I bought any music. I will never buy music again. It is rather easy to just listen to the radio.

    There are programs online that can allow you to view a youtube video and strip the music out if you really wanted to. Other programs let you turn the flash file into a mp4 file.

    Does anyone really believe a teenager can fill his ipod with 10,000 songs? I guarantee he/she did not pay 10,000$ to get them all. If anything the RIAA should try and sue apple for making technology that encourages illegal file sharing.

    Punishment for illegal file sharing should be 10x as much as the song is worth. So for every song somebody illegally trades it will cost them 10$. This would probably let ISP’s be willing to give over information of illegal file sharers. People are more willing to tell the truth when they dont have mass fear running through them. (a.k.a. fear of having to pay 20,000$ per song stolen.) If I ever stole a song I would be much more willing to just pay 10$ and be on my way. If threatened with mass money suing I would probably lie to save my life.

    To bad the people working for the RIAA dont start pushing Christian reform which states stealing is wrong. Which makes me wonder if somebody who works for the RIAA is stealing music. If we could find that person it would prove the RIAA is hypocrites.

  • Tristan

    I would leave the country, go to a nation without extradition treaties with the U.S. and tell the RIAA to fuck itself, daily, via telephone, email, and if possible, YouTube. That shit would be viral within MINUTES.

    Other than that, has anyone tried suing the RIAA for illegally influencing policy decisions by keeping politicians on its payroll? Being as it is a private organization it has no right to pay politicians even if they do work for it.

    Perhaps an equally good defense would be to simply BUY 200 copies of each song that was shared, bring proof in to court, and repeat the “Go Fuck Yourself Sideways With a Broken Bottle” statement to the RIAA lawyers.

  • Liberty

    If the RIAA really thinks that this kid will pay any fines to them then they must be in a dream world. I’m extremely surprised that this kid isn’t suing the RIAA for harassment and fraud along with civil rights violations because that’s what the RIAA has basically done (read the 8th amendment of the U.S Constitution). I also ask this: if everyone is so angry at the RIAA, then why not sue them to force them to stop suing everyone?

  • BrokenTime

    So if they come after all of us want they just bankrupt themselves. I mean they are -375,000 after this case and that is if he pays the 675,000.

  • Anonymous

    77 Aug 01, 2009 at 02:13 by Reasoned Mind
    And not only will the consortium of industry and government have the motivation and the tools, they also have the (vast) majority of the peoples sense of fairplay behind them to do it. Piracy has slowed our digital future, Hicks, not facilitated it. Joel is part of a problem called online thieving. Joel screws it up for the vast majority.

    LooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

    There is no tools for any government to stop filesharing. One cannot contain knowledge, they didn’t suceed before and will not suceed in the near future either.

    But history shows exactly what happens when you pressure the people pass a certain point.
    The church know what is like to be castized, emperors got ruined, kings got killed LoL

    About American law there is something that people could do. It is permited to a jury to not sentence a person if they deem the law unfair is just that people don’t remember this law and it is forbiden to speak off in court.

    IP is not a product it is not merchandise. IP was really intended for advancing science but it is now hindering it, copyright is getting ridiculous and should be abolished. Copyright tooks away ownership from the people and gave it to a few, you don’t buy music you rent it, you pay for music when you go eat in a restaurant, do a workout in a gym, or even in your workplace and those few that hold the wrongfully acquired “rigths” keep putting walls and saying what people can and cannot do.

    Music on the internetz is not like music on a CD, the nearest paralel to it is radio and people don’t charge for it or call others pirates for listening to radio do they now?

    So the pro copyright people are just klingling to a delusional hope that “that idea” was created by them and that no one in the world could come up with something equal on their own, which it is not true just ask Sir Newton and Leibniz. Beethoven infringed on the copyrights of birds because he copied woodpeckers songs to write one of his masters pieces, we copy, we share, we are the world and there is no stopping the world.

    ps: If Shakespeare was to write today he would have been sued because he copied and out right “stole” other works to do his own.

  • Anonymous

    @114

    Don’t commit suicide! Killing yourself is the coward’s way out.

    Kill the people that are making you unhappy instead!

  • Reasoned Mind

    @ 148 Anon, “It’s beyond me how anyone can think what you think.”

    But why is that? My thinking is with the mainstream majority and always has been. Your ad hom attacks are just typical pirate BS at this point. Start with history.

    Taking something intended for sale by the owner/creator—without payment and especially hiding in secrecy—has been wrong since the Middle Ages when the ideas of “copy right” and property ownership were first established. It has always been wrong, it has always been punished and we are seeing nothing to change these fundamental principles based upon our collective human nature. “Sharing” that which is not yours to share has never been confusing or unclear and if your problem is with the notion of property ownership in the first place then you’ll never understand what the majority understands.

    Never has the idea that “anything digital is free because you can’t stop us” ever been embraced by a majority anywhere at anytime in history. Even the PEW Studies show that among college students, (the largest statistical group of pirates) never has a majority been established, and upon graduation when in many cases dependency upon digital work for a living becomes their new norm, the percentage of pirates falls off rapidly as students join the real world and go to work. What planet do YOU live on?

    The big profile cases are getting clearer everyday. The trends towards legal streaming, ad supported video and other formats that honor the work of creation and pay the rights holders properly are growing exponentially, while pirates are being forced to the VPN’s with the pedo’s.

    If this mainstream reasoning is hard for you to understand, start with Thou shall not steal and give “it’s not stealing because I’m only taking a free copy” a break because that’s so old and tired and discredited you sound like a fool making that argument today.

    Two pertinent facts remain:

    1. Piracy has never been a respected norm except in minority anarchic circles who take without paying and feel entitled to something for nothing. It’s a damaged mindset to think of digital theft as “sharing”, and civilization has always and will always punish theft in its various forms because it’s not to the greater good.

    and 2. Joel’s jury and Jammie’s jury, both clearly impartial, decent folks, represent the mainstream thinking on “paying for what you take or paying the penalty you have earned.”, and this will not change with time because our fundamental natures do not change. The charge that these juries are “inhuman” is just outrageous. These are regular, educated, good folks in service to democracy doing the best they can with the laws they are empowered to work with. I’ve served on several jury’s and watched the process in action. I respect jury’s and their careful decisions, and you might consider that, too.

    As I said to Hicks earlier in this thread….”You are part of the warped but entertaining minority fringe, sir, and always will be.”

    And that, frankly, may explain why all this is beyond you.

  • The Man

    Why not keep the fines under 10grand. I am pretty sure if lots of ppl started getting hit with that the deterrent would be sufficient. Why ruin someones life over this???

  • andrew

    or better yet, use newsgroups over a SSL connection and never have to worry about anything again. Or even better, stop listening to music.

  • Anonymous

    The dawn of the anonymous network is coming run for your lifes.

    ps: run only if you are from the MAFIAA the rest of you just enjoy the free entertainment LoL

    One day these people will go too far.
    Really who gives a damn about a kid in the U.S. or a mother, remember out off site is out off mind. To be effective the industry will have to do much, much more and will alienate even more people, the only thing their are doing is digging their own graves and they can’t even see it or stop it.

  • PushforpeaceofMind

    @not reasoned mind

    wow you are ignorant. you think its fair to steal [yes your stealing] ridicilous sums of money from people who did nothing wrong. people who say file sharing is “stealing” [including you brad] have no idea how a computer works. reasoned mind. you need to go to copyright rehab your not right in the head.

  • Anonymous

    159 Aug 01, 2009 at 16:48 by andrew

    or better yet, use newsgroups over a SSL connection and never have to worry about anything again. Or even better, stop listening to music.

    Why do people keep saying that SSL, newsgroup, rapidshare, private trackers, block lists are secure?

    - Blocks lists can be bypassed by a proxy and need to be updated constantly and need to have a very good group of guy’s that investigate things and even then they cannot catch everything or everyone and make mistakes, governments use block lists and they have much more resources at their disposal and they can’t do it what make people think others can?
    Are these people really serious about blocklists?

    The only thing I can assume is that or these people don’t have a clue about what they are talking about or they have malicious intent trying to lure the unsuspecting to the trap.

    About SSL, private trackers and third party servers they all share one common flaw, the other side knows exactly what you did and when you did it and can be corrupted or forced to comply to requests, only the dumb can possibly think this is secure.

    The ideal is to use a encrypted, anonymous solution but have to be both, so there can’t be prying eyes on the data being transferred and one cannot find out who is doing what.

  • ( . Y .)

    this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard =o
    $600,000 for downloading $30 worth of music?
    If I was him I’d gear up and make my now destroyed life dedicated to capturing and torturing as many RIAA employee’s as possible

  • ( . Y .)

    whoever said kill them? wtf? why give them such a light punishment? the politicians and lawyers and riaa employees deserve to suffer, not a brief moment of shock and fear followed by no longer existing

    seriously death ain’t so bad

  • Anonymous

    Who is stealing who?

    The people steal when they share something with others that they paid for or making taxes and double charging people is ok?

    Ignoring the importance of the public domain and in effect taking it away from the people to make a profit is ok it is not stealing?

    Inventing rules to make imaginary products and trying to peddle them is ok? is not a kind of fraud? we all know how this ended up for the financial sector LoL

  • Anonymous

    What copyright is all about.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/07/my-kindle-ate-my-homework-lawsuit-filed-over-1984-deletion.ars

    Copyright is about the whims of the “holder”.

    Is about control, it is about criminalizing normal behavior for the sake of profit and the welfare of a few.

  • Jack

    134 @

    Truecrypt is opensource and there is no backdoors and that is fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truecrypt

  • Anonymous

    If you don’t like the **AA’s practices, then you should boycott their products. You must realize, however, that boycotting means NOT using them – not downloading them, not uploading them…basically not having anything to do with them, PERIOD.

    Otherwise, you’re just being a hypocrite.

    By the way, @Hicks: the record industry is actually full of tradespeople too, not just admins. Recording engineers, producers, graphic artists…hell, even truck drivers and other laborers. So don’t think that you can destroy an industry and that people will simply be absorbed into various admin jobs (wherever those are…lots of folks trying to get those jobs too these days) with no ramifications.

  • Strike

    The only thing we can do now is to stop buying music. We should boycott music industry for what it is doing to us. NO MORE BUYING!!!!

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  • ChaosMachine

    What the FUCK is wrong with the world when a student can be fined half a million dollars for sharing some songs? I lose faith in all legal systems when shit like this happens, because it only sets precedent for other companies to jump heels first into raping the lives of people for years to come.

  • gr8nurse

    I don’t agree with stealing, however how is this any different than barrowing a friends CD and copying it. I used napster before I knew it was illegal to make my own mixed CD. I no longer use any shared program. I have also bought CD’s and made copies for my kids, family and friends.
    When I was a teenager I would sit for hours waiting on a song to come on the radio, and record it onto a cassette. The only difference from that to this is now they can track it.

  • Sewje

    One day there will be a revolution, one day millions are going to band together against the system. Their voice will be loud and heard.
    The people will win.

  • Wot Happened?

    Indie bands have the resources to come up with professional quality recordings and shouldn’t be overlooked.

    Here’s one way to get back at “the man”. Hit your local music scene and buy your music there. Those bands need and appreciate it a lot more. Hell, they’ll even ask you to seed it for them.

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  • Suva

    Seems that only way to stop RIAA is stop buying music, directly or indirectly. Then they wouldn’t have their money to sue you.

    I stopped buying commercial music few years ago for the same reasons and currently listen to only independent artists and buy the albums directly.

  • lol

    I have said it before and will say it again..

    if that were to happen to me.. i would murder someone responsible for putting me there.

    Ruin my life, I end yours. What else would I have left?

    Think about it before you pick your next target.. is it worth your life?

    Molotov cocktail = untraceable.

  • Fact

    FACT:

    Every time you buy music you support a terrorist operation known as the RIAA.

    Don’t support terrorism, don’t buy music.

  • Anonymous

    Fuck The RIAA. After this and the 1.92 million court case, I will never buy any albums from the RIAA again, indie labels from now on, and of course torrents.

  • UltraLeetJ

    UGH… the damages will be used to simply put, buy more cases? GEEZ! I think someone shot themselves in the foot when they said this. i hope this is published everywhere so that the music customers who love to swallow the garbage they find through the MPAA RIAA and ifpi know whats in it for them. I seriously wonder why the student said “i was guilty” instead of “prove it”. A song does not cost that much money either. This is again, more than robbery I am definitely convinced. So now the riaa has become a suing machine that steals money covertly through winning court cases. If they have supposedly spent a million dollars in order to get in bed with judges, i think they’ll have to wait quite a bit before that million comes back. Because in reality, I don’t think either of the loosing parties will ever pay these criminals.

  • Casey

    Don’t they know that sharing is caring?

  • Wherm

    We should all just band together, like Sewje said, and just download Download DOWNLOAD for the entire day. But we will need over a million people doing this too, for the entire day. See how the RIAA likes it. ;

  • steven

    RIAA is a damn monster. That student will now be haunted by this his entire life. they might as well had him executed. I hope the RIAA cant sleep at night.

  • Sohei Fox

    Hey, my brother is a truck driver who delivers BMG products to stores around the US.

    Actually BUYING music supports him, and the entire support structure of the industry. Let’s say the entire “music industry” falls apart tomorrow.

    Do you really think the artists magically teleport their music into your brain or something? Do you believe that concerts just spontaneously pop up, and nobody ever needs to hire producers to secure these venues and do all the middlework? Do you believe the music just magically records itself? Perhaps distribution and packaging can be handled by the individual bands themselves then?

    Oh that’s right, these things take time, and there’s only 24 hours in a day. Once a band makes it past low levels of success, the work involved in maintaining that success increases exponentially. A band doesn’t have time to do all these things on a large scale And perform music as well. They’ll, naturally, want their product to become more popular, so they’ll have to examine national trends and musical tastes as well.

    They’ll just end up hiring people to do it for them. Eventually, these people will band together and offer their services TO musicians at a rate that bears out the fair market value of their abilities.

    Oh look! We’ll simply have created the music industry all over again because reality doesn’t WORK without producers, promoters, industry analysts, deliverymen and so on. Then these people will find that they need to defend themselves from those who wish to “copy” their product and pretend it does no harm.

    Piracy offers no better alternative, and it’s plainly blathering stupidity to think it does. These people have a right to fight for their jobs, and I invite any one of you who believes that the music industry shouldn’t “exist” to explain to my niece why you don’t believe her father should have his job.

    The world isn’t black and white. It’s a series of shades of grey. The RIAA isn’t any more evil for defending themselves and making an example then a man is for killing one looter to warn off the rest. They have to do something to protect themselves from theft, and while I feel bad for the looter who got caught and shot, maybe he should have thought about that before he started looting.

    The difference between an intelligent, adult pirate and a kneejerk child looking to justify their greed is simply this. I don;t try to justify any theft I engage in. I know I’m taking a risk to fulfill my own personal greed. Children try to justify it as “hurting a faceless organization” when there’s aboslutely NO chance the “fatcats” can EVER be hurt. They’ll simply find another way to make money.

    Does that make me a hypocrite, stealing when I know it will only hurt people like my brother?

    Absolutely not. I’m not pretending what I do is legal or even moral. I’m just adult enough to point the finger of blame at ME, and not the “industry” which made this music exist for me to steal in the first place.

  • Anon

    It is also very likely that none of the awards will ever be paid out. I really, really doubt that either of the two defendants can pay so they both will likely declare bankruptcy and that will be the end of it.

  • Anonymous

    Has any of the defendants actually kept track of all the people that downloaded the song from them? If so they could easily prove to the court that $675,000 is far too high for a fine.

    So he had 30 songs that he shared with people. Each song is about $1 now a days. Lets say he shared 30 songs with 150 people, that’s $4500. I’d like to see someone do this in court. I think the jury would me more apt to go with this then just assuming the RIAA will use the correct value.

  • marcus aurelius

    People complain too much about “not enough legal methods of online distribution”. Seriously?

    There’s this thing called iTunes. Heard of it? Pay $1 for any song you want, not to mention movies, tv shows, music videos, etc. All the folks using file sharing are cheap and lazy…it’s the American way!

    If it were possible to illegally download homes or cars or clothes, would be all be pissed when the manufacturer’s association sues somebody for it? “Aw, c’mon, we DESERVE to steal this stuff! It’s practically ours anyway, being on the internet and all” Pathetic.

  • Sojoboro

    The thing is, no matter how many copies of the Mona Lisa I download, nobody is ever going to come after me and sue me. No matter how many peoples’ art on DeviantArt I download, nobody gets upset. In fact, most people would thank me for downloading and spreading their work.

    Record companies have gotten too used to the idea that they’re inseparable from music, when the record company system as we know it has only existed since around the time of the Beatles. Music is art, and even though there *was* a way to profit off of it, it’s high time they realize we don’t need them anymore. The hardware isn’t cheap, but it’s accessible to the artist who wants to make their own work. The internet has given us all the software and connections to audiences. Myspace is a do-it-yourself marketing campaign. We just don’t need companies to help us produce high quality music.

    Once artists remember that they are *artists*, and that getting their songs to as many people as possible is more important than making a few bucks, THEY can abandon the RIAA and we can get past this little cultural speed bump.

  • chris

    Man that sucks.

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  • leef

    I wish I could be on one of these juries. As in, get ready to sit here until the fucking cows come home.

  • Skyman

    Reasoned Mind I thank you for your posts. You say you’ve aligned yourself with the majority, is that a good thing? Would America exist without a minority fringe? Are the students in Iran a minority fringe? 7 million people out of 61 million doesn’t sound like a fringe to me. The judgment in this case is completely unfair anyone can see that. The Rolling Stones were the highest grossing band a couple of years ago taking home over a 100 million dollars after touring. The Eagles just recently took home more than 60 million. I’m pretty sure that music artists are doing just fine, they probably have to work a little more like the rest of us. What a shame. Maybe science could benefit from file sharing. Maybe your life will be saved by a doctor who file shared with another doctor. What if there were no copy right laws? Would the music stop? The judgment in this case is an ugly reflection of an unfair justice system and a greedy industry. I don’t want any part of that.

  • lolwut

    Thanks RIAA, you ruined a students life forever.

  • DJD

    Sulfuric acid??? A killing-spree video??? Wow. I don’t think so. But this RIAA nonsense has gone on long enough. The time has come for action.

    The MAFIAA exists because music buyers fund it. Period. Stop buying, and they will run out of money. No more scumbag lawyers, no more bribe money for the judges.

    If this sounds good, read on.

    We move right now. Not another cent to the lunatic RIAA until:
    1) Jammie Thomas-Rasset, Joel Tenenbaum, et al are absolved of any fines, and repaid any fines or judgments already settled.
    2) RIAA permanently end the war they are waging.

    That’s it, really. Pretty simple.

    The hardest parts will be: learning about how the RIAA is funded (small hassle), and discovering new indie music (very cool, one of the best things about bein a dj).

    Who’s in?

    DJD

  • Sohei Fox

    To Skyman:

    Bravo. Established bands that have already taken advantage of the support structure the music industry has provided them to become famous could do just fine without CD sales.

    Good for them. Do you know what bands did BEFORE there was an industry that helped them promote, refine, and distribute their product? They generally couldn’t quit their day jobs. A freshmen-level musical history course will teach you that musicians were essentially as penniless as crappy indie bands are today until someone had the bright idea of doing the other work for them, and giving them time to actually play and create music.

    If copyright laws went away. the music would not stop…. but the days of musicians being able to make a living off it would. This is established history. This is actual reality. Before there were “copy right” laws, artists and musicians generally starved to death in obscurity, and later on people “discovered” their works.

    And nobody’s life is going to be saved by a doctor “file sharing” anything; doctors don’t create copyrightable techniques. There’s nothing to “file share”, there’ve been medical textbooks for thousands and thousands of years. Even doctors who never produce a single new technique make more than enough money to be able to afford things you or I could barely even fathom, so it’s not the same _universe_. You don’t NEED to copyright medical treatments. Simply being someone who is legally able to perform them will get you by just fine.

  • hmmm

    If I ever get sentenced like this, my life will be fucked for nothing, so I’ll start to make bombs.

    Wow, what a firework that would be.

  • Sohei Fox

    To finish my thought form above, since I hit “respond” too fast:

    You don’t NEED to copyright medical treatments. Simply being someone who is legally able to perform them will get you by just fine. It’s not the same for someone who can pick up a guitar. The services of a guitar player are not “needed” by society, so they have to get by on income from their work. And they have every right to be angry if their work is distributed without them being paid. Sure, it’s a good thing for musically worthless college bands to get ANY exposure…

    But without media promotion behind them, they’ll never make anything beyond the meagerest living on it. And that’s who the RIAA represents… those media people who made their fame possible. Without that media, analyzing and distribution system, the Rolling Stones would never have left Sussex; and most of the people would have been denied their excellent music.

  • hmmm @ Sohei Fox

    Feck you, feck your brother, feck your niece, all of you, eath sh1t and d1e.

    Starting to be really FED UP with nazis in your style.

    No more “artists” with gold swimming pools ? OH MY GOD I FEEL SO BAD FOR DOWNLOADING

    JUST FECK OFF

  • Anon

    That’s nothing. I was fined 10,000 dollars for posting 2 copyrighted photos on the net. Have I paid a penny to the FOREIGN corporation that holds the copyrights? No, and I never will. They had the balls to send a bill and tell me to send payment immediately as a gesture of good faith.

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  • Anon

    Fuck capitalism. The majority of us are being screwed by the RIAA and corporate elitists. 99% of media these days is pure shit anyway; low quality, high price.

  • 4nd

    @Reasoned Mind

    As you have drawn me out of lurking, I challenge your belief that filesharing is selfish.

    Here’s a brief overview of how BitTorrent works, since you must obviously be someone who never uses it (and nobody likes hypocrites, so let’s hope it’s that way). Person A has a digital file. He creates a .torrent for that file and uploads it to an indexing site. Persons B and C download the torrent file. Person A starts sending pieces of the file to B and C, who also share pieces between them as they receive them. Eventually, B and C have a copy of A’s file. Persons D through G then download the torrent file. A, B and C all begin sending pieces of the file to D through G. Person A may eventually stop seeding the file, but by the time he does, there are enough seeders out there that the swarm can continue to grow without him.

    Person A is the heart of the swarm. Tell me how he is acting selfishly. What does he gain from starting the swarm? Nobody pays him for the file. The anonymous people that connect to him don’t compensate him in any way. He isn’t out for any sort of reward by seeding the file. How is he selfish? How are filesharers selfish?

    When anti-piracy nutjobs accuse sharers of being greedy and selfish and freeloaders, they forget one simple fact: Without seeders, without initial providers, filesharing cannot exist. These seeders go largely uncompensated for their seeding- some trackers might keep ratios or reward exceptional uploaders, but not all do. TPB doesn’t, and it has a huge index of torrents. In BT, we have “hit-and-runners” that will download a file and then refuse to seed it back. You may call them selfish, greedy freeloaders all you like, because they are. But go ahead and try to explain how the seeders, how the people who give to others, are selfish. Tell me how I am greedy for letting others use my upload bandwidth so that they might have the same files I do.

    Do it. If you can.

  • Anon E Mus

    Why not leave a message supporting Tenenbaum at 202-775-0101 (stick 001 in front of that to dial from UK)

  • derek

    its amazing that people can kill, rape, pedophile and get less of a sentence than filesharing mp3′s, it totaly shows how far head up the ass and where our goverments prioritys are and that big buisnesses=goverment.
    so much for justice for all and freedom for all.
    This kind of taxation is what started people succeding from the british government 250 years ago, this is nothing more than corporate slavery as your property is actualy thier property and people are trying to revoke free enterprise and go back to a weird form of free trade, where suddenly sony and you own the music you have.

    even moreso as visual technology and technology improves then the importance of materialism becomes less and less and education more, wich scares the shit out of corporations and rich elitest c*suckers trying in vain like the spanish inquisition to control information and keep ahead.

    i think i just threwup my breakfast reading this cr*p its sad how completely balless journalism is and George Orwell wasnt some pipe smoking scifi writer after all.
    People want to live as slaves, so shall a slave you will be and your kids and thier kids.

  • katrizzle

    @194 / 196

    Who the HELL do you think you are to speak for artists and tell them they can ONLY use an industry’s method of popularizing their music?

    News flash: we have the fucking Internet. We’re NOT back in the 1300s where bards could starve to death when other bards stole their work. (Also bubonic plague. That one was a bit of a killer.) Point being, we have the technology now so that artists DON’T have to go sell their souls to the industry just to get their music heard. There are plenty of bands doing so successfully; you have NO right to speak otherwise with an uninformed voice.

    Who the HELL are YOU calling “musically worthless”? What do you listen to; shit mainstream stuff that no one actually likes but listens to because it’s what they hear on the radio and MTV? What is your problem with independent artists? “Oh my, they’re not going through and supporting the industry paying me to attack file-sharers; THEY MUST BE EVIL AND TERRIBLE MUSICIANS!” You make no sense. I’ve also seen your terrible appeal to emotion over in 184… get a life. If he loses that job, great, he’s no longer supporting a dying, soul-sucking, manipulative corporate industry. Find something where he makes a difference. Maybe I’m being bitchy (hormones are bad, kids), but… we CAN go and dismantle the economy and change things around without leaving people in the dust. There are other areas. Areas that DON’T take advantage of the customers.

    In summation,

    What the hell, man?

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  • derek

    welcome to the salem witchcraft trials of the 21st century

  • Thomas

    Rational Mind ranted:

    “1. Piracy has never been a respected norm except in minority anarchic circles who take without paying and feel entitled to something for nothing. It’s a damaged mindset to think of digital theft as “sharing”, and civilization has always and will always punish theft in its various forms because it’s not to the greater good.”

    If this is so, please explain taxation.

  • dave

    @184 Aug 01, 2009 at 19:19 by Sohei Fox

    Well said. indeed things aren’t as black and white as some people make it. for both sides.

    @194 Aug 01, 2009 at 21:36 by Sohei Fox

    you make it sound like the labels are always there in the best interest of the artists, which is not always true. A lot of times they only like artists who became a bit famous with their own strength, promise them golden mountains and then suck every last penny out of everything the artist produces thanks to the contract they have to sign.

    they can’t even put a music video of themselves on youtube for example and there are other examples which are even more sad.

    anyway, you also have your points.

    but I hope the internet will open new ways for artists to make money.

    you say:

    ‘Bravo. Established bands that have already taken advantage of the support structure the music industry has provided them to become famous could do just fine without CD sales.’

    imagine, p2p and youtube,websites,etc,etc can do the job also! for free! think about it.

  • joe

    will he have to really pay?

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  • dave

    an example I forgot to mention:

    Frank Zappa HAD TO make more ‘popular like’ songs. He HAD TO do that.

    and one more thing:

    I agree that illegal p2p can ultimately be the reason why less movies are being made (although you have cinema’s which like concerts for musicians still can generate a lot of money)
    the biggest losers IMHO could be the game and application industries.
    For my part they can sue people who make cash out of freely obtained products.

    but please leave the simple p2p user alone and stop suing them with huges fines…

  • bendover

    Every time someone gets stung so excessively like this, everyone who is against the RIAA should chip in a dollar to help the unlucky ones. This means they dont ruin someones life with debt and it puts two fingers up on behalf of all downloaders.

    :)

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  • circle c

    I’m shaking my head at all the dazed and stunned respondents, muttering in circles like accident victims. They can’t seem to grasp that their magical thinking utopian view of the Internet isn’t shared by society at large. 3 -and counting- juries have determined that theft is theft. Wow! What a shocker.
    Tenenbaum and J Thomas were sacrificial lambs who led themselves to slaughter, encouraged by the above mindset, thinking this really was about some strange and wonderful new paradigm that surely must prevail.
    The good news—maybe now those served will settle for a few K and not follow pipers like Nesson off a cliff.
    You may now commence attacking the messenger.

  • James

    First these parasites milk artists and music fans by the “middleman” exploit. Now they are throwing temptrum tamprums (which involve these petty legal cases that single out the indefensible). We as a race and species should really be questioning what they are doing to serve a purpose here. Music has been replaced by people seeking money and fame backed by “the industry”(riia) flooding these “markets” drowning out the real musicians. We are on a downward spiral in terms of creativity!!! I hope that that this economic crisis wipes out the music industry(riia) and it once again becomes an artform, as god surely intended it.

  • Anonymous

    Time to go pirate a couple albums… I mean this kid will not be able to pay these fines hell most people in the world can’t. This is pathetic since all it will do is increase piracy.

  • MrEClass

    Once again, Fuck the RIAA.

    We can’t stop. We wont stop.

    Pirates.

  • Ben

    What exactly does it accomplish if the RIAA just uses the money for more lawsuits in the first place? Aren’t they always claiming that the money is used to compensate “artists who lose money because of file sharing?” If they just use the money for more lawsuits, won’t it just be an endless, unaccomplishing cycle?

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  • Sid

    Can’t believe people still use Kazaa, they deserve that penalty just for beint that stupid.

  • Sexy

    .
    .
    .
    I propose each and everyone one of us should decide a day and an hour in which we all download at least 3-5gb of music from them
    .
    .
    .

  • James

    Way to set an example. I will now make a conscious effort to NOT PAY for another song or video as long as I live. If the RIAA thinks they can rip people off like that, then we will punish them.

    Their end is near. They can try to scare people into thinking they’ll get hit with a six-figure fine, but I don’t have to buy any of their shit, period. So.. fuck them.

  • Anonymous

    @ Ridiculous Mind

    Your thinking being shared (and probably taught to) the mainstream majority is the problem. Just because a belief has a majority vote from people uneducated about the subject matter doesn’t mean that belief is right.

    Firstly, regarding something intended for sale. Nothing is ‘taken’ when making a copy of a digital file. Going into a store and nabbing a CD is theft, as it has the required loss for the victim party. One person copying an mp3 and giving it to a friend isn’t theft as nobody suffers a loss of tangible property.

    Don’t give me this BS about ‘every download = lost sale’ because it simply isn’t true.

    The bands I am a fan of have made money from me that they wouldn’t have were it not for my friends sharing a few songs with me in high school years ago. They wouldn’t have gotten a penny from me without the ‘illegal’ listen I had of their music.

    And this BS about artists suffering irreparable losses from file-sharing, my ass. The mainstream popstars who have their big record label contracts have more money than they deserve, and file-sharing isn’t making any dent of the size the RIAA would have you believe. On the other hand, the small and relatively unknown bands are getting huge free advertising and endorsements from file-sharers. I’ve discovered acts than I’m now a massive fan of that I would never have heard of were it not for the dreaded P2P world. They didn’t lose sales, they gained them.

    As for your 2 pertinent facts…

    1. Piracy has yet to be accepted by the majority because the majority don’t understand the ins and outs of the argument. The majority fall prey to the money-mad propagandists such as the RIAA and, by association, yourself.

    How can they be expected to formulate their own opinion if they never hear anything other than ‘file-sharing = stealing = piracy = terrorism = whatever-other-ridiculous-terms-you-people-like-to-use’? I liken the situation to raising a child as a devout Catholic from birth before unleashing a Dawkins athiest on them.

    2. Your second point has already been dismantled, but a quick summary anyway.

    The jury is made up of people from the majority (ie, people who have only ever been recited one side of the story by ‘people’ such as yourself).

    As for my being part of the ‘warped’ minority, that doesn’t worry me too much. Athiests were a ‘warped’ minority up until very recently in history and look where they are now. Give it time, and your twisted grip on the majority of mislead people will slip. I only wish I could see the look on your face when it happens.

  • Sherman

    This is ridiculous! Ticks me off that laws can be made that call for someone to be punished this severely and yet the laws were only created by a few individuals. Kind of whack having to obey a law that we weren’t given any option on…

  • Insane Downloader

    Im not paying for all the porn i’v downloaded ever. Besides I rarily finish them anyway. ;)

  • Lauren

    My sister is currently paying $8,000 to the RIAA for when her boyfriend used her laptop to download songs under her student ID at college.She knew she would get screwed if she went to trial so she decided to settle.If she hadn’t, she could have ended up owing a lot more money to them.I don’t know why anyone would think that they could win against the RIAA, especially when losing could mess up their entire life.

  • Insane Downloader

    Cool it was 4:20 on my birthday sweet. pass it on down dude

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  • your mom

    and to think … if he would have just paid the dollar per song via iTunes … a total of $30 … he would now not be in the shiatstorm he is in.

    translation … pay for your damned music people. it’s a simple concept.

    kazaa, piracy, torrents, shareware … or whatever it’s called .. it’s still stealing! just pay for your damned music … and problem solved!

  • B

    The RIAA is digging itself into a hole. It’s grave. Call to arms, we must destroy the beast.

  • Anonymous

    How the hell do you get caught? I was probably downloading music from Kazaa in 2004.
    And this kid got fined for downloading? I thought they only cared about sharing the songs.

  • david

    that’s really a shame…

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  • the hassles

    i dont want to be a performing, recording artist anymore.

  • ReasonABLE mind

    @ Reasoned Mind:
    You are a 20 year old conservative college student, majoring in political science, who thinks they know everything.

    You are a dickhead.

  • Tux

    The RIAA is fighting a losing battle. Piracy of copyrighted works has always existed and will always exist. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or just doesn’t understand human nature, let alone the internet and digital technology. Newsflash big content, file sharing is here to stay and you’re choosing to die a dinosaur’s death. Stop resisting file sharers and start working with them. Sell advertising, sell tee-shirts, provide the best files, participate in our community. What you don’t realize is you are welcome to join the party. Anyone is. Lots of artists (music and otherwise) make their livings selling merch and ads online and having direct and honest relationships with fans. Take Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content, he makes a good living GIVING COMICS AWAY on the internet. So do Gabe and Tycho at Penny Arcade. Cory Doctorow makes his living, and his novels are practically all available for free. The fact is, execs, that the old hacker motto is true. Information wants to be free. Especially digital information. When a song can be spread as easily as a rumor, expecting payment for each listen is at worst greedy as fuck, and at best hubris of the worst kind. Guess what, like GM, your size and the fact that NOBODY IS BUYING YOUR PRODUCT OR YOUR PROPOGANDA, will be your undoing, sooner rather then later, and to add insult to injury, none of us will care, we’ll make our own music, we’ll distribute it free, and the overgrown and parasitic recording industry will become just another footnote in history. That is, unless you stop resisting and start playing by our rules. Start by releasing, for free, your entire catalogues. Next, hire a bunch of internet-savvy 20-somethings, and figure out how to monetize the largest collection of free music on the internet while hundreds of thousands of music fans sing your praises and download everything they can from your sites. Better than losing money on yet another lawsuit designed to scare people who, well, just aren’t scared.

  • Tom Stevens

    If he didn’t want the fine he shouldn’t have downloaded and shared the illegal music, he should of just bought it off itunes like the rest of us. Serves him right

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  • Anonymous

    F-ing jurors. What he (and we) needed was a jury nullification. A refusal to find him guilty. At the very least, they could have awarded the RIAA $0.01 per song.

    What is wrong with those jurors?

  • shruggos magee

    such faggots. i bet the bands whose music he was sharing would have just been like ‘oh no its fine, please just don’t do it as much’ IF THAT! i know for a fact most artists support filesharin and most even contribute. society today is crashing down :(

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  • smalldevil

    RIAA is making money. Money collected will not go to any of the artists, but to more anti-piracy campaigns to make more money.

    Do you think if there was no file-sharing, this young would have bought any album from the store. Its complete NO.

    If he was a real music fanboy, he would never spend time in downloading. But just would visit a store and purchase it instead.

    File-sharing makes the artists more popular. Well I didn`t know anything about music before I started using file-sharing networks. But now I love it and purchase songs from local retail.

    You yourself compare, the number of songs/albums sold now to that were sold before file-sharing emerged.

  • coolll

    I miss those old days when I used record songs on audio tapes and share with friends without any fear.

  • John Hooper

    Repeat after me:

    I will NEVER buy another CD again.

    I will make sure everyone I know NEVER buys another CD again.

    The CD is dead forever.

  • The historian

    This is proof that history really repeats itself. Every time I read a story like this, I cant help but think that the Prohibition(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States) is happening again, only this time, it involves file sharing instead of alcohol.

  • Anon

    What the fuck is a CD?

  • Holly

    @158 Aug 01, 2009 at 16:41 by Anonymous

    Thats easier said than done, no point killing someone, RIAA have no soul so they can’t die, besides is it really worth killing someone only to go to prison for a few years getting raped by a bunch of in denial homosexual prisoners?

  • Anonymous

    If copyright laws went away. the music would not stop…. but the days of musicians being able to make a living off it would. This is established history. This is actual reality. Before there were “copy right” laws, artists and musicians generally starved to death in obscurity, and later on people “discovered” their works.

    Correction:

    The infra structure to maintain a band is well developed and the knowledge to do so is open, the only reason major record labels still exist is because of distribution channels that they hold a monopoly;y and threat distributors with litigation if they don’t get their way.

    The internet disrupted this distribution channel and render them powerless that is why they are so angry. Artists that choose to do so can, make a record of their songs with professional grade and can count on the fans to do it so it they want to see slicethepie and sellaband for examples of this kind of new enterprise. Artists make millions going to the road maddona just made 200 millions, other made 40 millions hell I do think most bands would be proud to get 50.000.

    CDs sales are falling like a meteor shower no surprise there as people move to digital content who wants to buy CDs? anyone uses diskman’s still?

    Kicking and screaming the industry will come to the 21 century and as bush like to say “make no mistake about it” it will happen.

    If streaming music on the internet is a crime so is radio and tv. Are we prepared to forbid all kinds of recording?

    Hell I can even send music through the mail using 2D barcodes that hold music and video will the mail service be compelled to “deep inspect” all mail?

    File sharing is not and utopia world is very real and is happening today and there is no stopping it, the only utopian world is the world executives live in that says they are entitled to profit from the hard work of others(artists and consumers) LoL

  • Riaasaur

    The RIAA is nothing but an unnecessary middle man and due to horrible bullying tactics like this story mentions I will never pay for music until this organization finally goes extinct. I could see suing for somewhere around the cost of music downloaded but to sue for such a ridiculous sum (even if based on an actual number of uploads) is crazy!

    I hope eventually most music is distributed by the artist online, and things seem to slowly be moving in this direction, until that point I will not fork over even 1 cent to these greedy criminals. Life long debt as punishment for only 30 downloaded songs! This is what passes for the law in this country?

  • Think About It

    @ Reasoned Troll

    Hmm, thought this was all suppose to be theft, eh? Didn’t hear that brought up in this case. Hmm, no criminal trial either. Now you feel the urge to gloat because of an unconstitutionally unfair verdict (8th Amendment, but I don’t know why I’m pointing that out to an idiot that has never offered any proof of any of your claims). You continue to make false claims, do not backup your statements with facts, and refuse to respond to those who’ve proved you wrong time and time again.

    Stop Trolling For Undulation (STFU)

  • Think About It
  • Anonymous

    Ok they got one just 6 billion more people to go LoL

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  • djnforce9

    @240: Reason Mind has basically trolled each and every one of these types of articles in order to depict his strong pro-copyright views. He’s either an RIAA employee or just laughs at everyone who responds because he loves making people on here mad (and it clearly works).

    I would just LOVE to see him try and PROVE that this verdict was just. PROVE that the sharing of 30 songs caused “actual” damages in the hundreds of thousands to the music industry. I am not talking about legal fees either (the 1 million spent) because if they didn’t sue in the first place, those fees would not exist.

    The answer of course is that there were no damages at all (not even the cost of the songs which were probably paid for by whoever first dumped the mp3s). None of the RIAA’s resources (nor the artists’ for that matter) were used to distribute that music. No inventory was depleted because nothing was taken (copying = infinite supply). I am not arguing whether it was against the law but this trial just shows how flawed US laws are in that some company can win thousands over a case where it actually did not hurt them one bit. That is except for the fact that they can no longer fully control this channel and a lot of people are moving away from their monopoly meaning they don’t profit as much. As said before, with portable mp3 players being the norm now, who even needs CDs? Even car stereos are now mp3 players.

  • Anonymous

    OMG you know what i find messed up.
    The fact that “they say” it steals the money from the artists when you “pirate” songs, so you would think they would use that money to pay the record companies back lmao taxpayers money at work

  • Z.M

    This was 5 years ago… wow. I hope that guy doesn’t pay.

  • techloid

    It seems that Joel is fighting back. Donations are being taken up, much to the dismay of Beckerman, who says that money should go to those who actually fight the RIAA (the lawyers???)

    http://www.techloid.com/2009/08/joel-tenenbaum-fights-back.html

    http://joelfightsback.com

  • BoZotheChimp

    heres my question hopefully someone can answer it. How are they getting caught. Is RIAA using worms to hack there hard drive? is it only people who share and download? I used to use limewire but since whats goin on now I deleted it. I use uTorrrent mostly. i am new to this community so if someone could explain RIAA tricks I would greatly appreciate it. thx

  • WorkHomeUnion

    Talk about setting an example .. WOW! This could have been any one or two of millions of people .. didn’t quite get the full story as to why Kazaa and RIAA singled out Joel Tenenbaum and Jammie Thomas-Rasset, and I suppose there are many others in line to be sued.

    Two things, RIAA, will never be paid that amount unless the aforementioned two strike it rich, and second, PEOPLE, there is strength in numbers .. If we can orchestrate a full-scale Internet BOYCOTT against Kazaa, we shut them down. Yes, it’s wrong to download and share music files, obviously, but this is an extreme example of the “punishment not fitting the crinme!”

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/kazaa/

  • fULANUS

    Please don´t buy a dvd, music or cd anymore. Strike back in the RIAA interest.

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  • Reasoned Mind

    I suspect were I just a trolling provocateur, the admins here would have banned my comments years ago. Regular TF readers know that I try to advance the dialog and never stoop to comments like “I hope you get cancer/let’s shoot them at their desks.” Those are the real TF trolls.

    The Tenenbaum verdict is just another aberration in this digital transition. I see how screwed up it all is. I see how the punishment is disproportionate to the crime. Frankly? I don’t care. They knew the rules. I also believe that if anyone deserves this kind of chaos in their lives, it’s the arrogant types like Joel and Jammie.

    Who says that there’s no justice in this world? lol
    More to the point, there is much we can actually agree upon.

    Digital is the way forward, clearly, but government and industry is not going to simply throw everything digital into this chaotic utopian mess that exists only between your ears. And much is stalled until payment is sorted out.

    Pirates will do what they do, industry will lose temporarily then recover, established acts will find their work taken but not compensated, unknowns will gain profile from exposure but still find little money to live on, very few will pay until they are seriously compelled to pay, the struggle will go on. I don’t see capitulation on any side.

    But I also don’t see the sheer numbers needed for a true global revolution, either. Not even close. And piracy is already fading to streaming and ad supported models, like “free” TV and radio. Liberalism has always been subject to its supporters willingness to actually underwrite it. The ideological contrast between a college student DL’ing day and night and a recent college grad who now works to create content and needs a paying job is profound. So the revolution is an illusion, I think, and the majority won’t share in it.

    I’m not saying might makes right, I’m just saying that unless human nature reaches a tipping point and the digital-free-for-all of this past decade becomes a desired norm, it just isn’t going to happen. I don’t think the anarchy of piracy will ever ring true for the majority.

    And so government will constantly push back: for the industries that lobby them, for the tax revenue on sales every government needs, for the majority who understands the system of property ownership and supports it as I surely do. History has taught us the “haves” who create and own and control will always be fucked by the “have-nots” when given a chance. Big deal.

    But TF regulars in no way represent anything remotely mainstream. This is a vociferous but extremely tiny crew here. The network will keep tightening, the police state you seem to want so badly is looking unavoidable, the majority will migrate to hassle-free legal models as majorities always do and the hardcore bomb throwers will become the hunted as they always are in all of human history.

    So piracy won’t win this, but neither will industry succeed in maintaining “one possession/one payment” as they’ve enjoyed in the material world for a thousand years. New paying models will emerge but paying will always be a part and you’ll never bring the recording industry down because too many of us put our money where our mouth is and always will. Many of us actually like Duffy and the Kings of Leon. :-)

    The more important point is what a terrible influence your digital theft is having on the internet, and how we all lose because a hardcore few will always insist on something for nothing, no matter what, the famous “You can’t stop us/I hope you get cancer” brigade so well represented here.

    Life will go on, test cases like Joel will have their effect on the majority, the discredited notion of piracy will shrink in scale until the remaining hardcore few go deep into the shadows where they belong. Industry will continue to reap billions and the fatcats will remain fat as always but the internet will suffer immensely. In the early days, computers and networks were fairly elite, and the elite who gathered online brought respect for each other’s work and the system that created these computers and networks in the first place. Not anymore. Now anyone in a filthy t-shirt with a mouse in their Mother’s basement can get online and as Hicks indicated earlier, this only gets worse as the Third world gathers here. The clean and beautiful, self-governing days of this network are long behind us now.

    The tide comes in, the tide flows out, we’ve seen it all before. Nothing really changes because our shared human nature never really does. Only an occasional jerk like Tenenbaum will take it up the ass for being a wiseguy over and over until government can no longer ignore him, and for retaining the legal services of an aging egocentric with no true sense of the timing of the tide.

    We all know the rules and we all see the playing field. My sympathy is with the network itself and what it once promised and for all that has been lost to your collective bad behavior. Net neutrality will erode to a police state everytime someone breaks the law online because government will see no other path. And in retrospect, we’ll mourn the internet we lost and take a quiet consolation that defiant ripoff artists like Joel and Jammie got exactly what they earned for themselves under the law, in this time of digital transition.

  • Bleh

    This jury should be sent to jail for the rest of their lives. No reasonable person would ever make such a judgement. That makes it very likely that there were some bribes involved. And if that was not the case, the choice of the jury was very dubious to say the least. This is not what the justice system is for anymore…

    I understand they want to make an example of this guy, but with fines like this, that’s just plain ignorant and immoral. I hear countless stories on the news about knife stabbers and the like, who get no fines or jail time at all. What’s so dangerous about file sharing that the consequences of sharing should be 1000 times as hard as those for stabbing an other person? Sorry, but I don’t see the logic in this and I’m glad the RIAA mobsters and all their little friends will burn in hell.

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  • Scott

    Interesting, the money from the fines won’t go to the artists. The purpose of the anti-piracy laws is to reimburse artists fairly for their creations.

    The RIAA has become a self-licking ice cream cone.

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  • katrizzle

    @250

    dear lord, I can’t believe I read through that.

    I don’t CARE what the rules are. Abiding by them doesn’t further my cause. I will abide by the laws that make sense to me and conform to basic human morality and empathy. I will not abide by those that are unjust.

    If we all just sat around and were complacent in the face of injustice, the world would still be that of the free white straight male, and all others would be still oppressed.

    You say you don’t CARE about a disgusting, life-ruining punishment for something like this? Thirty songs, gee. You think it’s fine for the industry to go ahead and DESTROY SOMEONE ELSE for that?

    Then you honestly disgust me

  • ..

    I understand why he is being fined, but this man should not be made an example of. It’s despicable when one man’s life is ruined in order to scare everyone else. The amount of the fine is absurd. On the other hand, I am not exonerating downloaders. Downloading occasionally is fine; we get a taste of what a show is like to decide whether or not to buy it. But if we continue downloading everything and have “refuse to ever buy a CD/DVD/Game” the entertainment industry will not hold up much longer and a lot of shows that could have been brilliant, will never be made.

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  • ..

    P.S. This man obviously doesn’t know much about downloading if he’s using Kazaa, and the court should know that.

  • Skyman

    @250 Reasoned Mind
    You are certainly not a trolling provocateur I applaud you and I agree with you on the real TF trolls.

    It’s to bad that Joel and Jammie were indeed arrogant types however their cases reflect on all of us. Even if it is to only express our views in these conversations.

    Recently on the internet a short 30 second video was taken by a 9 year old of a UFO. The 9 year old posted it on the internet and many people were astounded by what they saw. A news agency picked up the video and produced a 5 minute piece on it. The father of the child was a bit angry that someone would take his son’s video and use it without their permission without compensation. Well, the video was a hoax by the 9 year old he put it on the internet as a joke and when he saw his dad was angry over what someone had done with the video the son told his father, “Don’t worry Dad that’s what happens on the internet.” I think that child hit it right on the head, and that is why the cases of Joel and Jammie are interesting.

    To me the ability to share with each other is critical for all of us. I agree with much of what you say Reasoned, may I call you Reasoned? I just hope you are wrong about some of it.

    Digital theft I’m not sure digital theft is such a terrible infulence on the internet I think it is more of a result of the internet. Like a child learneing to walk. I’m happy the third world will gather in, we need them. I can only try and put myself in their place when they download Duffy,the Kings of Leon and maybe even Adel for the first time. Would I download if I were from a third world country, probably. We are definitely on a learning curve.

    The tide comes in, the tide flows out, that’s beautiful Reasoned. I hope our “shared” human nature does change. I hope the internet plays a role in that.

    “We all know the rules and we all see the playing field. My sympathy is with the network itself and what it once promised and for all that has been lost to your collective bad behavior ” I honestly hope you are wrong Reasoned, I really do.

  • dave

    dear reasoned mind,

    you surely make some good points, really you do.

    I just want to see the lawmakers keep things into perspective, which they obvious did not do in the Tenenbaum and similar cases.

    And I really hope the internet will not become a police state where there is no respect for piracy… ehrm.. I mean privacy anymore. :)

    Enough joking. I seriously believe privacy is more important then anti piracy laws. Too bad for the entertainment industry. They will have a few bucks less and we will ultimately see less games and applications being made for the pc. Those companies are the real losers of piracy IMHO)

    Go after the people who make big bucks using piracy and leave the small p2p users alone.

  • Reasoned Mind

    “I don’t CARE what the rules are.”

    Well, clearly. That is self-evident, Katrizzle.

    Many here believe they are above the law, or should be, and the results are legendary. What’s revealing, I think, is the duplicious nature of your ethical belief, that is, in your version of ethical behavior you are not only entitled to break the law but also equally entitled not to be held accountable under it. Incredible. That’ rather humorous when viewed from an objective perspective.

    I absolutely respect your decision to follow your ethical standards, Katrizzle, (that may or may not be legal) provided that you respect those who elect to work within the law to take every advantage available to them to defend their legal rights, and to apprehend, convict and severely punish anyone at any time who would infringe upon those rights, and to the fullest extent that the law and a jury of his peers will allow. That’s fair.

    Without acknowledging the evenhandedness of this, you just reveal the hypocrisy of your ethics.

    But I think this hypocrisy in inherent in the pirate mindset. The news of this story is all over the media now, so lets wait for the huge and outraged uprising of these “new internet ethics” and see if anyone except a few others who take merchandise without paying for it care a whit about convicted infringer Joel Tenenbaum.

    or not.

  • djnforce9

    @reasoned mind:

    I agree that this time around some of your points were fine especially when you finally admitted that “the damages did not fit the severity of the crime” (or rather civil offense).

    However, things fell apart later on in your rant. If piracy isn’t becoming mainstream and is only done by an isolated minority (such as torrentfreak regulars as you call them), then I don’t see why anti-piracy outfits would push for tougher laws (at the expense of non-pirates at times) and even invest in cracking down on piracy (including spending $1M on making an example out of a college kid). You once again have no statistics or sources to back up your claims. I could just easily say that piracy is VERY mainstream due to the sheer amount of attention it is now getting globally.

    To be honest, it sounds like your still living in the late 1990′s to early 2000′s when warez was extremely buried beneath loads of porn ads, viruses, forced votes, crappy “Tpp ## warez site” lists, and of course dead/fake links. That is when only a few would bother looking for and downloading warez because the availability just wasn’t there. Today with bit torrent, file hosting services, and of course Usenet, that is no longer the case.

  • DTR

    I’ve got an idea! How about, just pay for the music you own! What concept… problem solved.

  • Reasoned Mind

    @ Dave 257, “Too bad for the entertainment industry”

    You make an interesting point Dave, if only it were true. Pirates have spun this issue as some “right to privacy or free speech” for a couple of years now, but it always comes back to entertainment because at the end of the day, pirates always reference entertainment: what they focus on is a harddrive full of pilfered music and movies and books.

    “I demand my right to privacy….. so I can abuse it!”

    Don’t you see? You are throwing your own privacy away because you are demanding it so you can abuse others. I don’t give a flying rats’ ass about the RIAA, Dave. I don’t.

    But pirates better wake up before it’s way too late because “entertainment’ is contextually small, it’s in the billions, yeah, but it’s tiny compared to the military/industrial complex, automotive, pharmaceutical all the enormous business and social networks and government communications. TF’s debate is often focused on entertainment because the pirates themselves indicate what is genuinely important to them, and it’s not privacy Dave, and it’s not free speech. It’s a lot smaller minded than that. It’s “privacy” so you can pirate the goods of others. For the past 10 years in debate this always returns to taking entertainment from “the man.”

    But it’s NOT.

    It’s about the network itself, and a reliable validity for the digital future. It’s about the security of recordings and motion pictures sure, and books and games and software and the eventual digital distribution of all kinds of future digital product. (The backlog of digital product waiting for piracy to be curtailed grows everyday.) And not incidentally, it’s also about the still quite universally respected notion of paying for whatever merchandise you take. But pirates miss the bigger picture.

    It’s ALSO about the security of pharmaceutical formula and automotive design, health care records and private communication, news reporting and funded photography. It’s about hacking blogs and upsetting VOIP and website defacement, it’s about the health of the NETWORK Dave, not some damn free copy of Harry Potter. And the sooner pirates get this through their selfish pointy heads the sooner our online privacy is more secure.

    I’m a realist, Dave. These will always be assholes who do what they can to disrupt and infringe and destroy because a damaged few will always live their lives in that mindset, IRL included.

    But right now pirates are giving government an awful decision to make: either they do what they must to preserve network integrity and punish the daylights out of those who would not respect it or just GIVE IT UP and allow it to turn into the worthless cesspool it will become if hackers and pirates and website defacers have their unfettered way. And there goes our ecological miracle of digital distribution, Dave, and the revenue streams of digital industry worldwide. There is no grey area in this.

    So what is government to do?
    They are DOING IT. And history will blame every single one of you.

  • .neo.styles|nvDX

    No matter what the hell you think file sharing should be or should not be.. the fine that kid got is so far over the top the RIAA should be disbanded for human rights infringement.

    There method if calculating losses is obviously done by a crack head. How on earth is he ever going to pay that? He will never have a normal life now because of what.. a few SONGS?

    It doesn’t matter what you believe, the RIAA is a terrorist organization that needs to be stopped, period.

  • averagejoe

    *EVERYONE* is “pirating” music, movies, documentaries, anything electronic that they can get their hands on. Everyone. Grandmom & Grandpop, your little cousin, your college professor, his wife your neighborhood cops and firefighters.

    Why?

    Most of them jumped on the bandwagon to be entertained in an era where, by DESIGN, it costs so much money to be entertained. Have you looked at your cable/sat bill lately? Really looked? Looked at how much of that money is really put to good use? It costs 20-50 bux for a night at the movie theatre.

    Many of you also have some sort of movie rental sub, plus other misc entertainment accessories that have a monthly fee attached.

    And the people who don’t directly pirate, are friends of people who copy digital info. So if you add them all together, I’d probably say that 30-40% of americans are casual pirates and another 10% are hardcore, everyday-doing-it pirates.

    The fact that the RIAA is cherrypicking and punishing Americans for this, will lead to a revolution in the way people interact and react to the Arts in general, and the music and movie industry specifically.

    I promise, this won’t end with your music and movies.

    I’ll let TJ finish my thoughts:

    “Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery.” –Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774.

  • Hicks

    @reasoned mind

    “I’m not saying might makes right, I’m just saying that unless human nature reaches a tipping point and the digital-free-for-all of this past decade becomes a desired norm, it just isn’t going to happen. I don’t think the anarchy of piracy will ever ring true for the majority.”

    Ah my friend reasoned mind, good to see you back again. So if I can distill you rantings into a nutshell, what you are saying is:

    “It’s all right, this isn’t really happening.”

    haHAhaHAhahahHAhaHAhaHAHAHAhaHAHA!!!

    You keep telling your self that mate. Denial is a wonderful thing. ;-)

    It would seem you friends at the RIAA don’t seem to agree with you though. To go that nuclear with the fine, makes it pretty clear piracy is seriously starting to rattle their cages!

    I smell blood me hearties!

    [oh and you like duffy, haHAhaHAhahahHAhaHAhaHA. Taste as well as foresight]

  • Extrapalapaquetel

    Damn! I definitely support this guy with a dollar, with 675000 more like me he wouldn’t be in this situation

  • polbel

    We should always refer to RIAA as RIAA-(EMI-Sony-Universal-Warner-among-1600-labels) to properly stigmatize them whenever they do an ugly mess to another human being because the big four being most responsible for this would probably back down if they were always associated to the bad publicity ensuing those horrible lawsuits that they do hiding behind the riaa meaningless name. I sincerely hope the editors of Torrentfreaks and other reporting media do it from now on and also for european groups that do the same kind of rape jobs to p2p users in the EU.

  • Anonymous

    The more they (RIAA) do this, the more people will pirate and boycott their products for spite.

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  • DPD

    Wowee! Whole lotta steam comin’. off this debate! Just a minute, while I whipe some of it off my glasses. There, that’s better. Let’s see now.
    We have the “privacy” advocates talking like they are entitled something, just ’cause they can take it. Hmmm. Justifications out the yingyang. “Can’t stop us”, sez they. K. Then we have some others, mostly represented by ReasonedMind, who say that all that smacks of thugism, thievery, etc.. Point. OKAY. Time for an unbiased decision (prolly better than any future Supreme Court will render).
    It’s ReasonedMind, by a KO. Any complaints…take’em up with the next higher power, God. Now you losers, listen up! You can justify, moan, carp and complain all you want, but you are moving against the tide (both in and out) when you suggest that our world is better off because you are too unproductive to earn enough to support the providers of entertainment for your self-indulgent little asses. We aren’t talking about the food off YOUR plates…no, we are talking about your GRATIFICATION. We are talking about the food off the plates of entire segments of society, which you seem eager to steal. We call people who bully others and steal from them thieves and thugs. I can hear your irate answers already…taxation, big business bullies, etc. I can get behind your assesment of those entities, too, but those problems are not a justification for our own failure to maintain ethical standards for ourselves. Stealing is not the remedy for abuses by big business and big government. Destroying our collective internet freedoms by illegally chiseling away at the financial structure which keeps it alive isn’t the way to go. Open warfare by boycott is more straightforward and honest, but one has to be willing to stand up and face the enemy, not covertly knaw at it’s vitals. No cowardly acts, but instead, brave confrontations are the mark of victors. Victims just whine from the shadows.
    Thank you, ReasonedMind, for speaking with clarity and conviction.

  • Rodrigo Dominogonezjones

    So if you’re doing 59 in a 60 MPH zone, and you get pulled over and given a ticket for $50-$100 bucks.. you don’t like it, but you were in fact speeding, and you have to accept it.

    When you’re doing 59 in a 55 and you’re pulled over and given a ticker for $2.9 million dollars.. you might have a problem with that.

    If you don’t you’re just a gigantic loon. Why on Earth would someone be held accountable for such huge damages? They downloaded the songs, they should have to pay the value of the songs and a REASONABLE punishment.. No one can sanely suggest that because the songs were shared to potentially 700,000 people that they should pay for those sins as well. The RIAA was always crooked for their dealings and hated, and now they’re hated even more. If you ask me, these revenge attacks aren’t going far enough. They’re the real criminals for their backwater dealings. Yet they have the legal power to get into judge and jury pockets and not get caught.. and you’re the one being naive if you think that isn’t true.

  • Rodrigo Dominogonezjones

    And to deal with the response before it even comes.. yes it is unreasonable to assume they pay for damages of 700,000 other downloads.

    PROVE IT..

    Bring those 700,000 to court and THEN you can sue for millions.

    But they aren’t doing that.

    As for #15 who asked what do you do when you can’t pay the fine.. it’s the same as any other debt situation.. the court determines how much money you need to live comfortably, and the rest of your wage is garnished until the debt is collected.. So basically, if he ever hits the lottery, gets an inheritance, gets a big bonus, etc, it’s going to the RIAA… but he’ll likely still get to keep 75% of his paycheck.. it’s just extremely likely that he’ll never be able to keep more than that.. All in all, it’s not that much different than the socialist ideals in which many lunatics believe.

  • dave

    to reasoned mind:

    Interesting post . a lot to swallow. :) If you don’t mind, I would like to stick to pirating media.

    I understand the point made about pirates coming up with the privacy issue to be able to keep on download illegally. I made a joke about it. :)

    I know it is illegal to download, although I do it myself sometimes. (not very often to be honest, I much rather like to browse youtube for interesting music and playing chess online.sometimes maybe even download a few interesting docs. I just find it not so big of a deal in most cases (as long people do not make lots of money with it.)

    I just hope the lawmakers don’t go insane and for example legalize reading email traffic to check if people break the law by exchanging links to copyrighted media or planting worms on your computer to secretly check out what you are doing, etc, etc

    they are getting pretty insane about the fees people have to pay already.

  • dave

    Anyway in ten or twenty years from now, we have all have user programmable televisions and stereos so we can choose what to watch and listen to from huge databases. :)

    for a reasonable price I hope. not like 20 bucks for an hour of music of your liking, like Itunes but maybe 50 bucks a month.

  • anonymous

    Fining people for downloading a less than inferior copy is absurd! These are not 1:1 copy.

  • anonymous

    Fining people for downloading a less than inferior copy is absurd! These are not 1:1 copy. If there is anyone being robbed it is the pirates who wasted their bandwidth for downloading a radio quality song.

  • Anonymous

    I love how Unreasonable Mind and his ilk keep banging on about piracy being bad because it’s the law, as if laws are set in stone, never to be challenged. Remove the corporate cocks from your asses boys…

    In other news, after having suffered a trillion sales losses at the hand of 14 year old girls with internet connections, Britney Spears has starved to death on the streets of… oh wait… never mind…

  • dave

    @DPD:

    That is as easy as kicking in a open door. ;p

    he is backed up by the law,he knows his arguments by now and indeed can write it down with clarity and conviction.

    but still it is not a KO. :)

    A lot of people have other arguments you did not list about why pirating is happening and how bad it really is.

  • Reasoned Mind

    @ 275 Anon

    “piracy being bad because it’s the law”

    That’s not true, that’s not what I say here at all.
    I say that you are NOT challenging it, that’s the problem, you are breaking the law and giving government and industry little choice but to push back. And the results to our network will be disaster.

    Listen, 275Anon, I’d have enormous respect if pirates had the balls to legitimately stop having anything to do with corporate product, legal/illegal you name it…….NOTHING…..and then take their grievances that everything digital should be free for everyone to their respective governments publicly and in courage and such overwhelming majority numbers that the entire world would notice and the real change could begin.

    But no, you don’t have the numbers, the balls or the integrity.

    The greatest number of illegal downloads for the past 10 years has consistently been the “hated, crap corporate product.” Your hypocrisy alone makes you not worth listening to.

    So you whine like a little girl about your “privacy rights” while you hide and pilfer and boast about how your “freedom” to pay nothing is somehow better for the support of fine art and the good people who make it for us.

    Pirates are getting exactly what they’ve brought upon themselves and it’s about time.

  • polbel

    Also, referring to the RIAA as RIAA-(EMI-Sony-Universal-Warner-among-1600-labels) to splash back people’s resentment in their mafia face will give the big four an idea of how it feels to be the ones being picked on when lots of others are doing it too but don’t get in trouble for it. they are the same kind of psychopaths that get governments to bailout banks with taxpayers’ money so they get fat bonuses, like goldman sachs father-f@ckers, only instead of the treasury department they screw the justice department in their favor.

  • DPD

    Yes, Dave. I see about 250 posts above, listing all the “reasons”. Push comes to shove and they boil down to personal decisions. Either one makes ethical choices or unethical ones – semantics be damned. People are making those choices every minute of every day. It’s so satisfying to those who stand to justify their own choices by encouraging unethical choices in others.

    A. Do the wrong thing.
    B. Encourage others to do the same. C. Aha, “everyone” is doing it, therefore I am right to do it. Told you so, you idiot.

    Except everyone is NOT doing it. You can fool yourselves and keep on trying to fool others, but when you look in the mirror, you gotta see the truth sometimes. That old “us against them” mentality is pure poison. Those law abiding folks are not who you imagine or portray them to be. That’s just your own smoke, you know? Hold still and it will soon clear – about the time you start taking responsibility for your own actions and stop pretending that it’s all somebody else’s fault that you feel like an outsider.
    The truth is that every one of those people you think is your enemy has had to go through the same thing you have to endure. It’s just growing up – no insult intended…we all have to go through it. Children are extremely selfish until they begin to perceive the viewpoints and feelings of others. Some never make the leap, but most do. Those on the other side of the chasm are the ones you feel are against you and should be harmed in some manner. Once you, yourself have jumped, (usually comes with jobs, families of our own, children to raise, etc.) you will find it hard to rationalize what you once believed was unquestionable, iron-bound truth. When you have finally found yourself over on the responsible side of things, you will look around and begin to notice that all those former bad guys are struggling with their own devils and trying to find their way, too.
    Sure, they seem like Big Powerful Suits, now, but when you get close, they are, for the most part, people like you. Aside from the ones who are true criminals, of course. They never REALLY made the jump in the first place (Toto)- they just pretended to do so. Now don’t you all feel better with these bluebirds and butterflies? Sorry, I gets preachy, but don’t steal stuff. It’s bad for you and doesn’t get the result you think it will get.

  • BoZotheChimp

    Yaa, really thanks for answering my question. Or maybe you are all just to busy pissin and moanin. whatever.

  • DPD

    Bozo was post No. 247, in case anyone has an answer…

  • anonynomous

    @280

    Bozo, entrapment is one of RIAA favorite tactics.

  • dave

    Bozo,

    I am not sure but I think it happened this way:

    everybody can monitor the IP addresses of the people sharing stuff in most p2p software, (like kazaa, limwire, emule and bittorrent).
    If they know the IP address of your computer, they can find out where you live, (if the court orders your ISP to give up your personal details) and if they know where you live they can come to your house.(with a warrant to search the place)

    quote:

    ‘Tenenbaum has essentially admitted to the accusations during his depositions, and recording industry investigators have the hard drives from his computers’

  • flash

    Well, I wasn’t really surprised when I read this article. Something like this was to be expected after recent events and it’s not as if such verdicts are new to the legal system in the USA. The problem is the whole juidicial system and it is only made worse by the effects, lobbying is allowed to have on Washington lawmakers. The crux of the matter is though, that a jury of laymen is allowed to set damages that they should have no business doing so.

    In the past I’ve had plenty of reason and time to study a few cases tried in the USA, one of those was the rather famous “McDonald’s Coffee case”. Come on, there has to be something wrong with a country if the jury can award 2.7m in punitive damages to a person for being burned by hot coffee, in addition to already six-digit high compensatory damages. Of course there was more to this case, like the fact that McDonald’s indeed sold coffee that was heated too much and furthermore that the company settled a number of other cases prior to this one. To allow punitive damages though that are 13.5 times higher than the already reasonably high compensatory damages is nothing more than abusing laws that allow for this. I’m really not well versed on this topic, but iirc the US Supreme Court has denied some double-digit damages before – in case of Liebeck vs. McDonald’s it was even the presiding judge who corrected the punitive damages to 500k.

    Coming back to filesharing cases, it looks to be even more ridiculous here. I have not looked further into this case or the recent one against Jammie Thomas (who was fined 1.92m) but as far as I’ve read, punitive damages haven’t even come up in those values. That should make appealing those decisions rather easy, since those are clearly disproportionate damages that need to be reasonably actual damages. Only punitive damages are allowed to be used as a deterrend for the defendant (and only for her/him)!

    Still, you can’t fault the RIAA for trying to max out the damages, that’s what they’ve been misused for in the past decade. It was their clients (the big music labels) after all who have more or less bribed politicians to get the Copyright Act signed. The DCMA has been a travesty of justice ever since it was implemented back in 1998 and it’s even more disturbing to note that the effect on copyright infringement cases is only a small part of its result. Many people don’t know that a programmer and employee of Elcomsoft (the company which offers ‘office/rar/etc password recovery’ software) was jailed when he visited the US for actions against his employer. How the Copyright Act influences individuals who are clearly non-commercial copyright infringers is one more sad detail: there’s no distinction between individuals and companies, there’s no distinction between commercial and non-commercial copyright infringement.

    Having said all that I am very surprised how some of you can go out there and say that those fines are a “just” punishment. They couldn’t have been, because back in 1998 when the DCMA was signed, not even Napster existed yet! Jammie Thomas and Joel Tenenbaum are in fact being punished by the US juidicial system by a law that can be conveniently abused to try non-commercial copyright infringers. The fact that the jury did, as previously mentioned, not award the full amount of damages is nothing more than a decoy reply to make a statement about the worst-case scenario.

    The truth of the matter is, that those huge values (150k per song) shouldn’t even be possible against a private individual who made no money at all from sharing songs via the internet, no matter now extensively it was done. Furthermore, those values still need to be somewhat justified in its size. But knowing the glorious USA, those verdicts may even stand in the end, all because of some screwed up political system that has allowed companies to inflict undue influence on the law making process for a very long time.

    I hope my rant hasn’t put anyone off ;)

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  • dave

    not at all :)

    Good read!

  • Old Texan

    @268 / DPD: Oh the glorious “stealing food off the plates” hyperbole. You need to drop that romanticized notion of what these lawsuits are about. They originate not from artists but from record companies, companies which are largely non-US-owned, not even paying their fair share of taxes in the #1 market they benefit from. The songs being sued over aren’t the product of starving artists. They’re “works for hire”, the products of indentured servitude. We aren’t privy to royalty agreements, but they’re notoriously unfavorable to the artist in these situations. The few artists who do have good royalty deals fought hard to get them. Their relationship with these companies is just as adversarial as ours. Artists who own their own recordings aren’t suing downloaders & sharers millions of dollars for alleged “irreparable harm”. Only these certain publicly-traded companies are. Also, you and Reasoned Mind need to reveal your identities before you chide us for guarding our privacy. If you feel you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. Nobody would possibly want to do anything to you for just speaking your mind and telling the folks who read TorrentFreak what’s what. Just like we have nothing to fear if we really believe any copyright infringement we’re involved in is either justified or unprovable.

  • Old Texan

    Also, I used to work at a secondhand CD shop. In the early ’90s the RIAA was lobbying to get royalties on the sale of secondhand CDs. Talk about illegal! But they were desperate because there were people out there *gasp* not paying for music they got from someone else! Pirates, thieves, stop stealing music! they cried. We need a tax on used CD sales, they said. The most profitable audio carrier ever was netting them money hand over fist, but it still wasn’t enough. They had to go after the home tapers, and the used CD market, and now the file downloaders & sharers – all different incarnations of the same bargain hunters, people who can & do spend money on music but who also seek out more affordable options like secondhand discs and shared rips/YouTube clips and who listen to the radio. Let’s not forget the RIAA’s war on radio, which they seem to be winning now. But still, in this age of Internet-based distribution & marketing, and despite plummeting costs for recording, they’ve got you believing artists and their entire families are “starving” just because people who *wouldn’t have paid for it anyway* are swapping files online. Get a clue.

  • concerned

    One big question that has remained unanswered is HOW DID THEY CATCH him in the first place?
    One can learn from failures.

  • Annoyed

    The whole American legal system has been f’ed up for many years. All they do is sue people for abnormal amounts and in cases like this for a measly 20 somewhat tracks?

    Get a life!

    Yes we all know downloading like this is / can be illegal but come on, this is like saying this one person caused a whole company to go overboard so let’s sue them for at least halve a mille or more. What’s one CD with about 20 tracks worth in profits that actually go through to the artist? Let’s say (a stupid) 10 bucks(?), times whatever times they think it was fully download from him / her. And even that will probably be calculated way to high.

    Put my cat in a microwave but not in the manual of the device? Let’s ask millions

    Someone bumped the back of you car with you in it at 2 miles an hour? Let’s ask millions.

    Inhaling smoke in a fire I know is lethal, but hey if I’ve been smoking sigarets for 30 years I suddenly don’t realize that’s lethal to; let’s ask billions!

    F’ed up. America (and other countries like this) should really overlook fine-amounts, jailtime, etc. All over-the-top b.s.

    Thinking that they can scare the public by financially kill one (random) person like this… Maybe they will but that one person they cripple for life (for 20 songs) and they don’t care.

  • Anonymous

    If they gave the money to the artists i wouldn’t be so bothered, but this is pathetic.

    I think the scare tactics will anger people more than scare them, ruining someone’s life over 24 songs is absolutely outrageous and is just a bigger scale of school playground bullying.

  • BoZotheChimp

    Thank you very much Dave,

  • Anonymous

    Unreasonable Mind:
    “Listen, 275Anon, I’d have enormous respect if pirates had the balls to legitimately stop having anything to do with corporate product, legal/illegal you name it…….NOTHING…..and then take their grievances that everything digital should be free for everyone to their respective governments publicly and in courage and such overwhelming majority numbers that the entire world would notice and the real change could begin.

    But no, you don’t have the numbers, the balls or the integrity.”

    Yeah, because a legitimate approach to the situation would be a great success…

    Money talks, the entertainment industry has it, the little guy doesn’t.

    Unreasonable Mind:
    “The greatest number of illegal downloads for the past 10 years has consistently been the “hated, crap corporate product.” Your hypocrisy alone makes you not worth listening to.”

    My hypocrisy? Explain how I am a hypocrite. Too many people throw that word around without understanding it’s meaning. It’s not an i-win button my friend.

    Unreasonable Mind:
    “So you whine like a little girl about your “privacy rights” while you hide and pilfer and boast about how your “freedom” to pay nothing is somehow better for the support of fine art and the good people who make it for us.

    Pirates are getting exactly what they’ve brought upon themselves and it’s about time.”

    Firstly, if people aren’t ‘whining’ about invasion of their privacy, there’s something wrong with that person. Secondly, you need to drop the idea that this argument is about ‘free stuff’. Obviously, a lot of undesireables are jumping on the bandwagon so to speak because they don’t want to pay for things.

    However, a lot of ‘pirates’ are genuinely fed up with being taken advantage of by unnecessary middle-men like record labels, and I’m sure the long list of artists screwed by the industry would feel the same. It’s not about having to pay, it’s about having to pay obscene amounts and where that money goes.

    You have a warped view of the situation. Really.

  • DPD, a fellow Old Texan

    Old Tex, I suspect that anyone foolish enough to put his full identity on here is going to be subjected to all the harassment and he/she would deserve for shear stupidity. Howsabout you go first?

  • Anon

    “Any funds recouped are re-invested into our ongoing education and anti-piracy programs”

    That says it all right there. Spiteful, life destroying bitches is all that they are.
    They are only going after downloaders, because they feel they have been personally attacked by anyone who has ever “comitted” a download.

    It is also readily apparent that not law and justice is being applied, but that there is a clear behind the scenes agreement about how these cases HAVE to play out, lest the western world ends at the hand of neo-p2p-communists, threatening to overthrow the lobby-capitalist way of life or something.

    Again – these monsters need to die.
    Stop buying, stop supporting, stop consuming. Fsck them all, now.
    This kind of industry needs to die, badly.

    And ASAP.

  • Anon

    Everything old texan has said is bang on and just illustrates who we are really dealing with: people trying to maximize their profits on the back of others.
    They are the Goldman Sachs of the music world.

    As for idiots like “Reasoned Mind” – there are pirate parties for a reason. We DO want change, we DO go on the street for it and we DO try to ACTUALLY GET IT. I know what I will be voting, while you are gleefully posting “Yay the p2pfägs are gettin’ raepd” trash.

    As for the verdict – seriously, how can anyone claim any kind of sense or sanity in a system that asks 22k per song while the same song is likely being sold for 99c on iTunes.

    How adjusted to an individual’s situation is that?

    Idiots all around.

  • who cares

    To # 152 & all:

    Never admit your guilt. That is for a court to decide. ALWAYS plead NOT GUILT, even when caught RED HANDED. Get your “Day in Court”. You pay the taxes for it, US IT!

    This is why we are a “Free” country. I say “Free” because it’s more of a capitalist society where big business runs things. Don’t believe me? Think on the Financial system and how it’s so hard to pass a law to supervise derivatives trading, even though people HAVE been found to lie to clients to get them into it, and there have been many unscrupulous acts performed in that area.

    Please Please Please! For anyone that is listening: NEVER give up your right to a trial by your peers/judge. NEVER!

    Good luck to all…

  • averagejoe again

    In 2007 (link below)
    RIAA chief Mitch Bainwol put it this way: “When Americans vote, they are making decisions about the values important to them. And one of those values must be a commitment to creativity. For some, that commitment will be a function of the economic significance of intellectual property. For others, that commitment will be about the power of the ideas our content spreads throughout the world. But the commitment to intellectual property rights, >>>>>whatever the motivation<<<<<, is what we must look for.”

    “whatever the motivation,” he said. How about greed?! That’s a motivator for ya.

    RIAA, MPAA urge pro-copyright vows from presidential candidates
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9821141-7.html

    Many TRUE artists do what they do because of internal motivating factors, not money. The ones that the record labels push onto the american public, like the no-talent blonde pop bull**** “singers” that can’t sing without the help of a studio engineer, are stamped and sent out like so many coins from the US mint; Shiny, but all cut from the same ingot and stamped with the same press.

    Hardly anyone here is scrambling to dl the new Brit or whomever the record labels have crowned their new cash cow of the year. The silly thing is that the REAL artists, the men and women created the art for themselves, as a creative outlet, should be well-compensated.

    The problem is that the very music that the large record companies are charging crazy amounts of money for, protests and rails against the machine, the establishment, and the irony of our capitalist free-market economy.

    Don’t you see that you who think that the “punishment” fit the “crime”, are on the wrong side of the issue? Even if it’s not music, it could be anything that you’re a fan of. The system is broken. Just because more artists haven’t broken away from the large labels, doesn’t mean they don’t want it this way; That they’re happy with the status quo. They’re stuck in the machine, just like we are.

    Maybe we didn’t know what Billy Corgan was yelling at when he said that despite all his rage, he’s still just a rat in a cage.

    Now, maybe we caught the metaphor.

    So you can play the devil’s advocate all you want, and say the record companies are due theirs, and I agree, they’re due; They have the cake in front of them and it’s all theirs, but it’s up to the public to make sure they wear it on their face before they get to eat it.

    I can’t wait for the Internets* to crush big greedy pigs like the RIAA, et al.

  • Dan_e

    “RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy told TorrentFreak that the ‘damages’ will not go to any of the artists, but to more anti-piracy campaigns. “Any funds recouped are re-invested into our ongoing education and anti-piracy programs,” he said.”

    Sounds like a good starting point for a lawsuit by Trent Reznor and the other artists involved.

  • 00ster

    Another US court verdict with all the subtlety and tact of a public hanging. A blatant attempt to cow the rest of the herd.(groan)

    Looks like desperation tactics. The nazi’s did this kinda thing in territory they occupied.

    the peasants are just about in open revolt. So we’ll (financially)crucify a couple in public court to scare the others.

    who’s running their PR dept.? Caligula?

  • averagejoe again

    Link at end of post. Please go and read the whole story!

    By the Numbers: U.S. File-sharers Undeterred

    How many Americans continue to use P2P file sharing software to download music? Because of the decentralized nature of P2P networks, it is extremely difficult to answer this question definitively. However, virtually all surveys and studies agree that P2P usage has grown steadily since the RIAA’s litigation campaign began in 2003.

    For example, at the end of 2004, a group of independent computer scientists at UC San Diego and UC Riverside published a study aimed at measuring P2P usage from 2002 through 2004. Drawing on empirical data collected from two Tier 1 ISPs, the researchers concluded:

    “In general we observe that P2P activity has not diminished. On the contrary, P2P traffic represents a significant amount of Internet traffic and is likely to continue to grow in the future, RIAA
    behavior notwithstanding.”

    ————–
    EVEN BETTER!!!
    ————–
    ”
    In fact, there are signs that even the record companies that have contributed millions to anti-piracy trade groups are growing disenchanted with the ineffectiveness and bad press their efforts have brought.112 A Sony executive called the anti-P2P litigation a “money pit.”113 One of the “big four,” EMI, has threatened to cut its funding to the record industry’s international trade group almost entirely.114 Others are considering legal action to collect on P2P settlement money the RIAA collected but never distributed to artists.
    ”

    YAY. There are enough people with Internet connections to effectively bankrupt the music industry machine.
    Slowly, artists will fall away from the record labels and self-produce and distribute via their own outlets. Get on the right side of the issue, doubting Thomases. Like I said, too many artists and all of the consumers are stuck in the same machine of greed.

  • averagejoe again

    “who’s running their PR dept.? Caligula?”

    HA! I heard he was over there with Torquemada.

    Like Shapiro and Cochran, the dream team

  • averagejoe again

    http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later

    Sorry, forgot the link to those quotes!!!

  • Science

    So the pro copyright people are just klingling to a delusional hope that “that idea” was created by them and that no one in the world could come up with something equal on their own, which it is not true just ask Sir Newton and Leibniz. Beethoven infringed on the copyrights of birds because he copied woodpeckers songs to write one of his masters pieces, we copy, we share, we are the world and there is no stopping the world.

    ps: If Shakespeare was to write today he would have been sued because he copied and out right “stole” other works to do his own.

  • averagejoe again

    They’ll be beaten into submission.

    Fair is fair, and most people here would pay a small fee for being able to trade music like they are now, with no fear of penalty.

    As the EFF stated, it worked with ASCAP and the other licensing bodies which collect royalties from commercial establishments, in exchange for their ability to play whatever they want, whenever.

    Sorry, no matter what way you slice it, in the end they’re Goliath, and the artists and listening public are David.

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  • Bobe-On

    “was ordered to pay $1.92 million for the 24 songs she shared via Kazaa.”

    The above quote really makes you think how much money these guys seem to make. Roughly $2 million for 25 songs?!

    If I was sued and that much, I’d promptly UPLOAD every song and movie I could.

    Be proud: We are part of history in the making– an information-war/revolution that’s more or less quietly being waged right under most people’s noses.

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  • Anonymous

    Sorry, forgot the link to those quotes!!!
    http://www.brand-clothing.com/

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  • Think About It

    @ 277 Aug 03, 2009 at 04:43 by Reasoned Mind

    You claim, ‘I say that you are NOT challenging it, that’s the problem, you are breaking the law…’

    Stop lying. Do you have any evidence? A law? A criminal case? TF knows you’re a troll they just have actively decided that your presence currently benefits their traffic figures.

    I’ve already pointed out your lies numerous times, but you won’t address me. Why? Eventually TF will come to realize that your presence is a detriment.

  • Think About It

    And since you don’t seem to understand the difference between a civil and a criminal trial, I can accidentally spill paint on a dog and be sued for damages, but that still doesn’t mean I have broken any law, even if I have to pay.

    So put your money where your mouth is. As for me, I’ll bet you won’t as you never do.

  • kyle747

    Hey, I download all the songs, TV shows, movies and anything else I want via bit torrent. I don’t use encryption and I don’t give a shit who knows it !

    I do donate to projects that produce decent software. God know there are few enough of those.

    I live in Canada….

    Quick Message to the copyright holders.. The seas and tides are what is, your vessels adapt to them or sink like stones.

  • NeverBackDown

    Technology is going to get to the point where large corporations won’t be necessary for information sharing anymore. Wireless access will get faster and faster, people will start up small mesh node networks, things will turn into a giant commune, and we won’t have to worry about the behemoths of industry killing the common man. People need to realize, that if copyright law didn’t exist, morally, downloading music would not be wrong. Data is simply the expression of an idea, and ideas are free. Trying to protect a specific arrangement of ideas is to fight a losing battle. One final thing, DRM is the only way the music industry will survive the opening of the networks, something that will happen in 30-50 years as router tech starts to expand and mesh node networks become more feasible. And if consumers don’t buy into DRM (which we shouldn’t as it is the 1984 of all technology) then large music companies will die (as they should) and music will enter a new era, something more akin to what it was before vinyl. A more traditional, performer oriented, industry, that appreciates talent, aesthetic, and creativity, and not the popular money generation that we see now.

  • anonymous

    There is no such thing as an original idea. All ideas are a collective consciousness gathered from a variety of sources. Hence copyright is nothing more than an ownership to a recycled idea. Don’t forget the first pirates were corporate behemoth like Microsoft and Apple. The RIAA and MPAA are neither, they are more like parasites.

  • Tim

    I wish we could start a social networking campaign and pay the fine and even make this poor chap a little bit of money. Really show the RIAA that we aren’t easily pushed around. Let this verdict have the opposite effect. F**K em!!

  • Anonymous

    A $675,000 Fine is the real crime.

    The judge discrminated by blocking fair use. I wonder how much he was bribed.

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  • dave

    ‘Don’t forget the first pirates were corporate behemoth like Microsoft and Apple.’

    lol that is so true.

    bill gates ‘cloned’ his MSDOS OS from another OS.

  • Danger Dave
  • Mr. Briggs

    I feel like the name “Reasoned Mind” isn’t one user, but many.

    Just look at all the arguments that he (she?)’s posted over the years. They start off as just plain anti-piracy, but then they start spinning off in entirely different directions. Some of them are balanced, well-reasoned, and even have valid points, while others look like they were written in the heat of passion, including things such as personal insults.

    This leads me to conclude that it’s not one person writing these posts.

    Also, there are slight differences in the spelling and grammar. Some people will forget to capitalize things, others will use all-caps. Not the kind of stuff you’d see from responses written from respectable people.

    That being said, I don’t think a fine of $675,000 is justified. I might be okay with $30,000.

  • Reasoned Mind

    @308 (Think About It):

    Stop lying. Do you have any evidence? A law? A criminal case? TF knows you’re a troll; they just have actively decided that your presence currently benefits their traffic figures.

    They know I’m a troll? If so, then why haven’t they banned me, like I must have mentioned at least four times in my last few posts? If it’s really just for the benefit of their traffic, then I’ll leave. No point in beating a dead horse.

    And as a matter of fact, I do have evidence in the form of a written law: the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that you would like so much to abolish but have done nothing about. It would be logically impossible for me to provide evidence for the absence of a criminal case pertaining to the DMCA that led to the consideration of its abolition or amendment, as it is impossible to easily provide evidence for the absence of something. (In terms that you would understand: I can’t show you a criminal case where the jury upheld the DMCA, because as far as I know, all of them, an example being the one in this article, were like that. You’ll have to bring forth a criminal case that ended up with the DMCA being reconsidered. Not modified, even reconsideration is okay.)

    My point is that you’re not challenging the law outside of criminal cases or even civil trials, besides the obvious venues of piracy. You’re not challenging the law in an obviously legal way, such as lobbying. I’d have more respect for the pirates if the majority of them acted like the Pirate Party does, actually trying to work their way in legally. However, most of them do not, causing me to lose respect.

    I’ve already pointed out your lies numerous times, but you won’t address me. Why? Eventually TF will come to realize that your presence is a detriment.

    Lies? What lies? My presence is only a detriment to the point of view of the pirates, which is my goal – to make the pirates eventually realize that what they’re doing is wrong, and that if they keep doing it, they’ll have to answer to the law.

    In fact, TF has come to realize the exact opposite – that my presence is actually a good thing. Otherwise, like I’ve said on numerous occasions, they would have banned me long ago.

    (Case in point to post 317, I’m actually Mr. Briggs. The viewpoint is so generic, that people decide to congregate under one pseudonym. The viewpoint on the pirates’ side is also generic, but they aren’t as well-known.

    If I’m wrong, correct me. I promise I won’t use this pseudonym again.)

    [Mods Note: In actuality, this case made no reference to the DMCA at all. The DMCA was not invoked or used in any way that I'm aware of during the case. As such, contrary to your claim, it was never upheld in this case, any more than the RICO statute or the Mann Act was also upheld by the case. No safe harbour provisions, no circumvention of TCM's, or similar. - BJ]

  • JohnnyBoy

    It is interesting to see everyone repeat the same statement over and over again: “filesharing will neverstop”

    But have you ever considered a more fundamental question. If filesharing will continue to grow and grow untill everyone is sharing and no one is buying, will the people who create the stuff that we share continue to do so?

    We have to relaise that at some point the producers of the various media be it music or film, will at some point say: screw this! What are we going to share then?

    The only reason that filesharing is still alive is because “the pirates” are still a minority. There are still a whole lot of people out there paying for songs and films. As long as the situation stays this way and we remain a minority we can live on.

    We have to reliase however that we live off all the people out there who are willing to pay for stuff. Imagine that few years down the line more and more customres will come over to our side. Imagine empty movie theaters and desertet music shops. Imagine iTunes being shut down due to lack of traffic. At that point in time there will be no more new things to share. In my opinion file sharing slows down creativity (in the long run). I don’t really care myself because I know that I will be dead in 80 years time.

    Let us not get ahead of ourselves though. Before such time may ever come the government will implement new ways of policing the internet. Currenty the law enforcing agencies are catching up with the technological advancements. They are still relaying on cars and guns to chase criminals. They are asleep in the new age of digital world. They think they are still living the wild west. However once they relaise that the real crime takes place in the cyberworld they may have a better chance at fighting “crimes” that take place here. In the internet.

    By now everyone should relaise that this is a never ending loop. For as soon as the law enforcing agencies convert their power to fight the cybercrimes another underground scene will be created in that very world. From that point on it will be a technology battle over who has the best equipment. As it has always been!!!

  • Sane Mind

    @Reasoned Mind

    Hmm, I guess what libraries are doing is wrong, too. Giving out media for free the the original artist was only paid once for and countless people can check out and read/view/listen.

    I know, the media isn’t owned by the patron, it’s borrowed, which is exactly the way I feel about pirated downloads, they aren’t exactly “owned” by the downloader, just used.

    It isn’t theft, it’s piracy. theft takes the original, piracy only makes a copy.

  • Sane Mind

    that* not “the”

  • Mr. Briggs

    @320: The important exception to the library thing is: the library is authorized to distribute those copies. I’m pretty sure that the libraries don’t expect you to make a full copy of an audio CD that you borrow from them.

    The bought copy isn’t “owned” either, so to speak. Which means you have no rights to it other than the rights pointed out in fair use laws and the rights that are expressly granted to you.

    You’re right, it isn’t theft. But it’s still illegal. What we need to do is to change that.

  • Nobob

    Wtf!! Why the hell does he have to pay shit like $700,000 for some 30 songs he downloaded. Omg. Like a few people not buying the songs will affect the sales. This is so retarded. seriously, they need to get a life.

  • Mr. Briggs

    @318 (mod’s note): Thanks for providing the factual information. You’re strengthening your own case, which is good. But I’ll have to read the entire procedure to look at whether the DMCA was referenced or not – because if it wasn’t, or even the RICO, etc, the RIAA has no case. If they just cite “copyright infringement”, they need to point to either the DMCA, RICO, or whatever it was that Tenenbaum violated.

    You must think I’m an ignorant dumbass…

  • averagejoe again

    There really is no debate happening here. The few individuals who have staked their flag on the pile of doo-doo that is defending corporate greed, the mass-production of mediocre “art”(I use the term loosely), and then selling you the “right” to license it with all the restrictions you could never hope for, are thankfully a minority voice and will continue to shrink until ultimately squashed by reason.

    That’s true democracy, and that’s true capitalism. Bad ideas die, unless the legislature carves them into stone for the sake of a reciprocal hand-job for campaign contributions.

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  • The Saint

    The 30 songs are already available on torrent. Just search for “Joel Tenenbaum torrent”, download them, seed them and make this an online protest against the verdict and against harassing ordinary filesharing people…

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