Three Strikes Anti-Piracy Budget “Too Expensive To Justify” Says Minister

enigmax
August 3, 2012
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A statement by French Culture Minister Aurelie Filipetti spells bad and possibly fatal news for the country’s “three strikes” anti-piracy scheme. The Minister said that not only is the cost of running Hadopi too great to justify, but the agency has failed to deliver when it comes to developing the availability of legal content. As the final insult, Filipetti said that Internet disconnections are a disproportionate way to deal with infringement.

It was President Nicolas Sarkozy’s baby, a mechanism through which he could prove that punishing file-sharers is the way to get them back into music and movie stores and away from unauthorized sites. But today all is not well with Hadopi.

France’s new Culture Minister Aurélie Filippetti seems particularly unimpressed with the so-called “three strikes” mechanism, indicating clearly this week that her government would not be giving Hadopi the level of support it enjoyed under the former president.

In comments made to Nouvel Observateur, Minister Filippetti said in difficult times cuts have to made, and it appears that spending money on Hadopi is low down the country’s list of priorities.

“In financial terms, 12 million euros a year and 60 officers, it’s an expensive way to send a million e-mails,” the Minister said. “As part of budgetary efforts, I will ask that funding of Hadopi is greatly reduced.”

The Minister said she prefers to cut funding for initiatives that have not yet proven themselves rather than ones that have. The exact cuts will be detailed in September.

Meanwhile, according to a Numerama report this week which quotes Hadopi statistics to June 2012, 340 French account holders are now on their 3rd strike. This leaves them open to losing their Internet connections but according to Minister Filippetti, this ultimate punishment goes too far.

“The suspension of Internet access seems a disproportionate sanction against the end goal,” she said.

As highlighted many times before, and recently most forcefully by the Danish government, the promotion and development of legal services must be a priority when it comes to reducing online piracy. In this respect, Hadopi appears to have failed.

“I do not know what will become of this institution, but one thing is clear: Hadopi has not fulfilled its mission to develop legal offers,” Filippetti said.

A consultation on the future of Hadopi led by former Canal+ director Pierre Lescure is expected to deliver its findings in the coming months.

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http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

You gotta love these new Ministers who come into such a socially important and sensitive job as Culture Minister and immediately says ALL the right things.

And may Hadopi at long last R.I.P. It was wrong from the start and it’s wrong today.

Viva Madame Aurélie Filippetti.
Viva La France ffs!!
- Fugasmic
  
  Totally agree with you and apart from the last bit as Viva I believe was a make of car. What you really meant was
  
  Vive la France (although definitely with the ffs ;-D)
  - Danny
    
    Viva es Espanol?
    And Vive is nonsense also.
    
    Vivre means to live does it not?
    - BlurrTheTechnicolor
      
      its Viva Espagna
      
      and Vive La France is right
      
      really good news for our french audience lets hope Hadopi will fade quick
    - Danny
      
      @224f8e8954e1732bcff70fc0115eb8fe:disqus
      
      I was trying to write ‘Viva is Spanish’, obviously my grammar was shite but I haven’t done Spanish since I was 15 so not bad IMO!
    - Techanon
      
      @danwood76:disqus nah, your grammar is okay.It was just an out of context misinterpretation of your question on his part.
    - Ourplanetfromfarfaraway
      
      This is in reply to BlurrTheTechnicolor, but it won’t let me reply directly to him/herThis is also good news for all of us as it takes away the ability of politicians in our countries to point to the “success” of the French systemMay it burn in hell indeed!
- ASDF
  
  May it R.I.P.? Dude! No way! More like: MAY IT BURN IN HELL!!! >:D
  - Guest
    
    I don’t care as long as it goes away.
- Guest
  
  Wow is this a polititian? Anyway we’ll wait for concrete actions against Hadopi.
- Guest
  
  Agreed. this go in the right direction
  
  Yet France current gvt won’t play a key role in trasnforming the industry. The socialists are way too conservative.
  
  They are as conservative as sarkozy. None is willing to look ahead
  - Lord of the Files
    
    Yeah it doesn’t sound like they’re getting rid of Hadopi, just suggesting that it’s funding should be reduced, that it isn’t really working all too well, and that the third strike punishment is too severe. Hopefully they’ll realize upon closer examination that it needs to be ditched altogether and perhaps replaced by something better. Incentives for the creation of legal alternatives is a much better idea IMHO. I’d gladly pay (and still do when the price is reasonable) for something legal, especially if they offer everything I actually want. I know for a fact that it is possible to compete with free (anyone remember AllOfMP3?). Figure out all the things one finds lacking with illegal downloads and offer those at a superior quality. Peace of mind all by itself is more valuable than they realize I think.
  - MikeH
    
    Correction: Sarkozy was a facist. Facist only look like the right if you are a socialist or a communist. If you are a libertarian they all look like the extreme left wing.
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RisingPhoenix

FAIL!

I honestly didn’t know that it was a condition that hadopi needed to trigger more legal offers to be available. It just shows how much the entertainment industry is stuck in their ways.

I hope they will just abandon this hadopi now… This would probably set a good example for America ;)
http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire

Reason and sense from France?!!!

And all it needed to do was take out a dwarf and his untalented wife (with a cat strangling voice) from office.
- Danny
  
  Was Sarkozy the dwarf in Harry Potter?
  - http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire
    
    Nope, I believe he was one of the dwarfs from Lord of The Rings, he didn’t have much screen time as the other dwarfs took him in a corner and buried him in poo.
    
    True story bro!
  - The_seventh_guest
    
    I thought MAFIAAAFire was referring to the untalented wife to Sarkozy –LOL
- Guest
  
  I can understand the hate against Sarkozy but what has his wife done to piss you off? Or do you just hate all women?
  - Guest
    
    She married him and boosted his ego? His ego was already bigger than him. Not as big as his heels though. Think he borrowed them off Tom Cruise.
    - MadAsASnake
      
      So was she…
  - Scary Devil Monastery
    
    You’d need to check the history of Sarkoszy’s wife. The words “untalented opportunistic gold digger” spring to mind.
    
    Which may not make her a target for jibes quite in the same way Sarkoszy is, but certainly doesn’t place her high on the respect list.
qox

And it inspired the US 6 strikes coming soon.
Oh the irony ;)
petrelli

What she means is that Hollywood paid Sarkosy and haven’t yet paid her.
Once Hollywood pays her the same or more, Hadopi will be back on the cards.

It’s all about money.
- jesuschrist
  
  Got that right, would be awesome once they get paid those money will go towards health insurance and education and just give them the middle finger. What are they gonna say? You didn’t use our bribe the way you should have?
  - Anyone
    
    Chris Dodd said as much to congress after SOPA/PIPA failed
- me
  
  Well, Hollywood paid Sarkozy with Carla Bruni. What kind of payment Aurelie expects from Hollywood remains to be seen.
- DannyUfonek
  
  Oh come on, don’t be so pessimistic! We now have hope, so let’s enjoy the most of it!
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Guest

I like this Aurelie Filipetti person.
For now.
She speaks the truth, the system is useless and costs ton of money for a false sense of security and overpunishes a few unlucky.
Let’s see if she crosses to the dark side later, but for now, I’m already her fan.

But honestly? The french people deserve a pirate party to bring them the progress they need, Hadopi was a blasphemy, a complete waste of money that never should have happened.
Anonymous

Sarkozy only brought this shit into being because his wife was a member of the entertainment fraternity and he wanted to please her after being caught out screwing another woman.
there is so much truth in what is said by Aurelie Filipetti, that it beggars disbelief. i wonder how much longer she will last in this position? there are too many back-handers in politics to day that will speed up her demise! however, the lack of legal, sensibly priced download alternatives is something that has been asked for for decades and not been implemented. the industries have put out bull shit instead of what the consumer wants, believing, stupidly, that it knows best. the cost was and always will be extortinate. why does anyone thhink that it is always governments that have to foot the bill and not the industries themselves? they want to reap the good bits without any of the crap or expense landing at their doors. the disconnections part has again and always will be totally disproportionate, especially when now having the internet is not only a needed utility, it is stated by governments as an essential utility, which is more than can be said for music and movies (they are good to have, but not essential).
now, after this revelation being released, which country (apart from the USA, obviously) will ignore the common sense, political sense and economic sense of the whole issue and go ahead with present plans, making them worse as and when necessary, just to please the entertainment industries and to make sure they are not seemingly doing anything in favour of their own citizens instead? you’ve guessed it! THE THICK FUCKING COALITION GOVERNMENT IN THE UK, THAT HAS ONE OF THE MOST BIASED MINISTERS, VAIZEY, WORKING WITH THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRIES AGAINST THE CITIZENS AND IGNORING ADVICE FROM THEIR OWN REPORTER, PROF. HARGREAVES, SINCE MANDELSON FIRST INTRODUCED THE DEA!
- Guest
  
  How can good people survive in politics when they are surrounded by black sheep all around?
http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater

I agree that internet disconnection is disproportionate. Reduction of bandwidth is better, this enables use of most other services. Example:

First warning: Reduction to 1Mbit/s
Second warning: Reduction to 100kbit/s
Third warning: Reduction to 10kbit/s.
- NO
  
  no way im going from 20Mb/s to 1 fuck that
- Fredrika
  
  > “I agree that internet disconnection is disproportionate. Reduction of bandwidth is better, this enables use of most other services.”
  
  Since, as you are well and fully aware of, there exists no scientific evidence that supports the thesis that on-line non-profit piracy constitutes any kind of problem whatsoever to neither society, the economy, culture, creators, the content industry’s current record revenues or the goal with copyright, there’s no need for anything, and the slightest breath by the government or the judicial system is disproportionate according to the human rights and the rules of law.
  
  Does this simple logic not apply to your level of understanding?
  
  No problem = No need for solution.
  - Dirty_Bear
    
    “Since, as you are well and fully aware of, there exists no scientific evidence that supports the thesis that on-line non-profit piracy constitutes any kind of problem whatsoever to neither society”
    
    There will never be any scientific evidence with regards to the effects of piracy as science doesn’t have anything to do with the issue. You should be aware of that simple fact.
    
    Nejtillpirater may have given up on you but I still have hope….
    
    and to TorrentFreak mods (to which I’m sure Fredrika is a member of) please stop blocking my regular IPs. Aren’t you guys supposed to be against censorship?
    - Fredrika
      
      Your original reply:
      
      > “There would never be any scientific evidence as science doesn’t have anything to do with piracy. Are you not aware of that simple fact?”
      
      Your second reply:
      
      > “There will never be any scientific evidence with regards to the effects of piracy as science doesn’t have anything to do with the issue. You should be aware of that simple fact.”
      
      There’s is something called statistical analysis and empirical peer reviews, and they can mathematically prove certain things, as what effect piracy has, and mathematical proof is indeed a form of scientific evidence. Where you not aware of this simple fact?
    - Dirty_Bear
      
      “There’s is something called statistical analysis and empirical peer reviews, and they can mathematically prove certain things, as what effect piracy has, and mathematical proof is indeed a form of scientific evidence. Where you not aware of this simple fact?”
      
      Statistical analysis can support science but it is not science, and in the case where the data is not of a scientific nature to begin with, does not constitute as scientific evidence.
      
      Any statistical analysis done on the effects on piracy would be “Statistics” at best and highly unreliable. Such research could not be submitted as scientific evidence and you know this.
      
      Basically, your argument boils down to “because it hasn’t been written in the sky that piracy is a problem”, it isn’t.”
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Statistical analysis can support science but it is not science..”
      
      Statistical analysis is mathematical science.
      
      > “Such research could not be submitted as scientic evidence and you know this.”
      
      I know that it could be, because mathematical science can produce scientific evidence.
      
      > “Basically, your argument boils down to “because it hasn’t been written in the sky that piracy is a problem”, it isn’t.”
      
      No, that is not my argument. My argument is, which also happens to be the basic fundamental principle that all legislation is supposed to be based on, that if no problem can be proven to actually exist, there’s no need for a solution.
      
      The fact that some weak failed entrepreneurs claim that the free market rules is a problem for them is not proof that an actual problem exists, that’s needs to be legislatively addressed. The free market is generally not considered a problem, unless you advocate communism or a planned economy.
    - jesuschrist
      
      “and to TorrentFreak mods (to which I’m sure Fredrika is a member of)
      please stop blocking my regular IPs. Aren’t you guys supposed to be
      against censorship?”
      I’d blame your ISP for that. Blocking websites with ‘torrent’ in them. Mods have no powers over who has access to the website.
      You’re not that important, get over yourself.
    - Dirty_Bear
      
      “‘d blame your ISP for that. Blocking websites with ‘torrent’ in them. Mods have no powers over who has access to the website.
      You’re not that important, get over yourself.”
      
      I’m talking about being blocked from posting you plum. I can only post here from behind a VPN.
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      “There will never be any scientific evidence with regards to the effects of piracy as science doesn’t have anything to do with the issue. You should be aware of that simple fact. ”
      
      I agree. Each artist has his/her individual situation depending on many factors like how famous the artist is, what kind of music, performer or not etc. Some artists may benefit from releasing some or all works for free but others will not benefit from that.
      
      It must be up to each individual artist to decide this in the same way that it’s up to each individual company to hand out free samples of physical products or not doing so.
      
      It’s also almost impossible to perform research like on the effect of drugs, where some patients use the drug and others got a placebo. You can’t isolate the effect of piracy in a study, there are so many other variables involved like if it’s an economic boom or recession. Also, many studies may identify some form of dependency but cannot identify the causality. Many wrong conclusions are drawn. I’d say that it’s almost impossible to find studies that are useful in a scientific way and also we’re also back to one important conclusion:
      
      Even if there was a positive correlation between piracy and incomes for the artists (which hasn’t been proven regarding that increased piracy should actually lead to increased incomes), this could only be applied to artists/companies as a whole. Some artists may benefit on it, some other would not. So we’re back to the simple fact that also corresponds with the copyright laws:
      
      It’s up to each artist to decide regarding how their works are released, for free, for money etc.
    - BlurrTheTechnicolor
      
      In your case i think censorship is a good thing simply because of you writing halftruths and thinking you are right
      at some point it just gets ridiculious people like you always writing the same despite the fact we all know full well the opposite is the truth
      
      so dont wonder if you get censored you deserve it
    - Guest
      
      @Dirty_Bear:disqus
      
      What exactly are your standards for scientific evidence? I ask because it seems that your standards for scientific evidence don’t include the collection of data about piracy, and I’d like to know why.
      
      The data we have regarding piracy has been collected in multiple ways. There is, of course, correlational data about how much money the industry has collected before and after piracy, which have little scientific validity. However, there are also data sets relating too how likely individuals who pirate are to purchase content they pirate and how much they spend on average on content versus someone who does not pirate. There are data sets regarding the effect of piracy as a marketing tool and the spread of knowledge about the product when piracy is observed to be the sole divergent variable relating to the controls. How do these not constitute scientific data?
      
      Finally, what are your reasons for suggesting that piracy can not be studied scientifically? Piracy is an economic and sociological phenomenon, and we have well-established methods for studying both of those.
      
      Are you making an objection to the statement that piracy can be scientifically proved to not be a problem? That may technically be true, but we can scientifically test the proposotions underlying the statement that piracy is a problem. For example, one of the key proposotions behind the idea that piracy is a problem is that piracy reduces the amount of money that artists get for their work, but with economic and sociological payment data, we can definitively say that this is a false statement. We can also do this with most of the other basic proposotions. We ultimately can’t make the assertive claim that piracy is not a problem, but we can say that barring possible ethical claims, piracy has not been demonstrated to be a problem, and we have no reason to treat it like one.
      
      If you want to know why any particular proposition underlying the idea that piracy is a problem is false, ask Fredrika. She has the time and inclination to educate anyone about this matter, and I’d guess that she probably has links to specific studies as well.
      
      @flphpp:disqus
      
      Hope you’re ok with being volunteered. I figure if you’ve still got time for Nejtillpirater, then maybe you can educate this guy too.
    - Dirty_Bear
      
      “What exactly are your standards for scientific evidence? I ask because it seems that your standards for scientific evidence don’t include the collection of data about piracy, and I’d like to know why.”
      
      My standards are quite high and I can imagine that this is the case with most that work or operate within the area of true scientific research or investigation. I frown upon the new pseudo science that tries to slot itself in as real science.
      
      “However, there are also data sets relating too how likely individuals who pirate are to purchase content they pirate and how much they spend on average on content versus someone who does not pirate. There are data sets regarding the effect of piracy as a marketing tool and the spread of knowledge about the product when piracy is observed to be the sole divergent variable relating to the controls. How do these not constitute scientific data?”
      
      This data does not constitute as true scientific data as it is based on the response of individuals, more specifically pirates. You need to trust that they are being truthful with their responses rather than making answers up to further their own agenda. Where there is such a strong bias involved the results can not be trusted. With such obvious flaws it probably serves well as a propaganda tool and I have frequently seen it used as such.
      
      “Finally, what are your reasons for suggesting that piracy can not be studied scientifically? Piracy is an economic and sociological phenomenon, and we have well-established methods for studying both of those.”
      
      Anything can be studied using the scientific method. However, this does not mean that the result of such studies can be submitted as true scientific evidence.
      
      “Are you making an objection to the statement that piracy can be scientifically proved to not be a problem? That may technically be true, but we can scientifically test the proposotions underlying the statement that piracy is a problem. For example, one of the key proposotions behind the idea that piracy is a problem is that piracy reduces the amount of money that artists get for their work, but with economic and sociological payment data, we can definitively say that this is a false statement. We can also do this with most of the other basic proposotions. We ultimately can’t make the assertive claim that piracy is not a problem, but we can say that barring possible ethical claims, piracy has not been demonstrated to be a problem, and we have no reason to treat it like one.”
      
      I’m saying that the output of any research into the effects of piracy is pseudo science at best. As I have stated previously. Anything can be studied using the scientific method. However, this doesn’t mean that the result constitutes as scientific evidence and this is what the discussion was about.
      
      You are wrong. Piracy has been demonstrated time and time again to be a “problem”. For example:
      
      http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90/
      http://kotaku.com/5215528/demigod-18000-customers-100000-pirates-update
      
      “If you want to know why any particular proposition underlying the idea that piracy is a problem is false, ask Fredrika. She has the time and inclination to educate anyone about this matter, and I’d guess that she probably has links to specific studies as well.”
      
      Sorry to put down your student but Fredrika is not in any position to educate anyone about any subject matter. Her responses usually amount to incoherent rambles filled with a scary number of logical fallacies and this is the reason that many choose to ignore her. Of course I can imagine that she sees this as a victory.
      
      To make use of an old meme:
      
      Arguing with Fredrika…
      
      “is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over all the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around the table looking victorious.”
      
      She may be considered a star here but debating skills or “truth” are not what get you to that position on TorrentFreak. It’s saying what everyone wants to here and reinforcing existing views.
    - Danny
      
      ’Nejtillpirater may have given up on you but I still have hope…’
      
      He only gave up because he can’t beat logic with his flavour of unreasonable bollocks!
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @danwood76:disqus
      
      “Nejtillpirater may have given up on you but I still have hope…’
      
      He only gave up because he can’t beat logic with his flavour of unreasonable bollocks!”
      
      Actually I gave up because of Fredrikas repeated deficient logic and ad hominem attacks.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Actually I gave up because of Fredrikas repeated deficient logic and ad hominem attacks.”
      
      Yes you do sometimes bring up this empty, meaningless and therefore dishonest accusation, when being forced to come up with an excuse for why you can’t provide any sustainable answers or arguments relevant to the actual debate, which you often hypercritically claim to encourage.
      
      However, when i ask, which i have done many times over the last three years by the way, what particular sentence or paragraph that i wrote, that actually constituted an ad hominem argument, or which claim you couldn’t logically accept as it was written and why, you always quietly disappear, not longer being able to back up that claim either.
      
      And you ask why everyone calls you a troll, when your comments in fact meet all the criteria that exists down to the last point for what constitutes a troll?
      
      And then you believe that whether or not you actually are a troll is determined by if you admit to being one or not? =)
    - Water is cool
      
      They block my Ips as well if I say anything which is “the other side of the arguement”, if I ever mention TPB or any other torrent/warez sites and talk about them making lots of money I always get blocked (which is just my opinion). Either that or coincidently Disqus is braking in my browser (it just doesn’t load up untill I delete my cookies).
      
      Futuremore, I get annoyed with the amount of users on Torrentfreak who label everyone as a troll if they have different political/piracy views to them. Even Nejtillpirater was attacked by people claiming he was a troll (even Fredrika started claiming that he was a troll if I remember correctly).
      
      Another awsome example of how torrentfreak works – an artist posts a pro-piracy comment (unverified that he is an artist or a troll), everyone likes the comment and agrees with him. if an artist says an anti-piracy comment, people label the comment as fake/troll by saying it’s unverified that he is an artist – even start insulting the music he makes blaming that on the reason he cannot market his music properly.
      
      Anyway, I’m not anti-piracy, I’m pro-piracy… but I do have strong views which are quite anti-piracy. No one wants to hear them though, it’s only a single sided website sadly. Then again, every news site is biased towards one side more than the other – but you’d expect pirates to be more open minded in their discussion.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “..even Fredrika started claiming that he was a troll if I remember correctly..”
      
      Your memory serves you incorrectly. I have not claimed that he is a troll.
    - Water is cool
      
      After I submitted my previous comment I read the responses…
      
      I call this, kinda, points proven.
      
      Fredrika has labelled Nejtillpirater as a troll once again and someone said to you: ” In your case i think censorship is a good thing simply because of you writing halftruths and thinking you are right
      at
      some point it just gets ridiculious people like you always writing the
      same despite the fact we all know full well the opposite is the truth
      
      so dont wonder if you get censored you deserve it” which also backs up my point regarding them not wanting to have an open minded discussion regarding piracy – they just only want to listen to one side of the story (there side).Now I’m just waiting for Torrentfreak to ban my ip again…
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Fredrika has labelled Nejtillpirater as a troll once again..”
      
      Please re-read that comment, because i did not.
    - Anyone
      
      @87c19a02f2c16b76b234320f2b606747:disqus
      the problem with Njetpillsomething is that he simply refuses to see logic
      we bring arguments, studies, etc. all he brings is “shoplifting”, “illegal”, “thieves”, etc.
      
      it’s clearly a troll or just someone unwilling to educate himself
    - Water is cool
      
      Fredrika, “when your comments in fact meet all the criteria that exists down to the last point for what constitutes a troll” in my opinion is you suggesting he is a troll.
      
      Anyway, why not reply to the entire comment… I’m interested in your views/defense for what I said about TF/TF users.
    - Guest
      
      ”My standards are quite high”
      
      That tells me nothing. I’m asking for a detailed description of your standards, not just your opinion of your own standards. I will ask you again; what are your standards for scientific evidence?
      
      “I frown upon the new pseudo science that tries to slot itself in as real science.”
      
      How does the data collected about piracy so far qualify as being psuedosceintific? The data was collected using a systematically empirical method, it has been made publicly avalivable, it reviews testable questions (how much do pirates buy on average, how does this compare to the average consumer, do products that are pirated suffer commercially compared to similar products with anti-piracy measures, etc…), and the scientists who study it have made falsifiable predictions. Which of these four standards of science do the studies relating to piracy fail to fulfill? If they do not fail any of these standards, how are the psuedoscientific?
      
      “This data does not constitute as true scientific data as it is based on the response of individuals,”
      
      Not quite. The studies have used various measures. One study has used electronic monitoring to determine purchasing habits. Another has used a convergence of S-data, B-data, and I-data to determine purchasing data (I have been told this is vague. By S, B and I, I am referring to behavioral data, self-reported data, and informant-reported data. In short, they asked pirates about their purchasing habits, requested access to their financial records to verify these purchasing habits, and asked informants (friends or family) about the purchasing habits of the individual. When these three types of data converge on a similar answer, we have a much stronger reason to reject the null and come to the conclusion that the data is accurate (statistical analysis allowing, of course)). To suggest that all studies have relied solely on asking pirates is false.
      
      “Anything can be studied using the scientific method. However, this
      does not mean that the result of such studies can be submitted as true
      scientific evidence.”
      
      Incorrect. To begin with, not everything can be studied with the scientific method. If I ask you what religion is correct, or what system of government we should have, I am questions that can not have testable, falsifiable questions attached to them. These questions can not be answered by science.
      
      Secondly, anything that can be studied with systematic empiricism produces data that is, by definition, scientific evidence. Data can be interpreted incorrectly, but it is always scientific evidence. Even if the pirate studies were what you suggested, where scientists only asked pirates about their habits, that would scientific validity. It would be invalid to suggest that such data could be interpreted as being accurate of reality, but the data would still tell us what pirates were willing to answer to, and would therefore have value to psychological interpretations.
      
      “I’m saying that the output of any research into the effects of piracy is pseudo science at best. ”
      
      You have made this claim, but you haven’t justified it. You haven’t shown how the studies of piracy meet the definition of psuedoscience. (I should note that even if you were right about what piracy studies are, which you aren’t, that still wouldn’t be psuedoscience, it would be an incorrect interpretation of actual scientific data. If something is psuedoscientific, it must fail to use the scientific method. If I understand you correctly, you don’t debate that the piracy studies used the scientific method, you only debate whether or not they made a proper interpretation of data.)
      
      “You are wrong. Piracy has been demonstrated time and time again to be a “problem”. For example:
      
      http://arstechnica.com/gaming/… http://kotaku.com/5215528/demi…[update]”
      
      First, I want to ask you to operationally define exactly what constitutes a problem. Is piracy a problem if people pirate more often then they buy, unrelated to how much the publisher/developer makes? Is piracy a problem if people pirate less often than they buy, unrelated to how much the publisher/developer makes? Is piracy a problem if it causes publishers/developers to make less money? Is piracy a problem if it does not cause publishers/developers to make less money, or if it causes them to make more money?
      
      Please provide a good operational definition of “problem”, and we’ll be able to discuss this further. It’s crucial that you do this, because until you do, we can’t talk about whether or not these articles have proven a problem, because we haven’t defined what a problem is.
      
      For the sake of debate, I’ll give an operational definition; piracy is a problem if it causes developers to make less money from their games than they would if piracy was nonexistent. If this operational definition is true, then your articles demonstrate nothing. All they demonstrate is that piracy occurs, not that piracy causes developers to lose money. You are taking it as a granted that piracy causes games to sell less. That’s why you need scientific studies, to dispute what people take for granted.
      
      Case studies prove little, and these are weak case studies.
      
      Finally, regarding Fredrika; Your opinion of her debating skill does not interest me. I don’t particularly care for her debating, and it’s not a reason why I recommended you to her. I recommended you to her because (to my understanding), she has the studies relating to piracy on file, and can produce evidence that will directly relate to your propositions.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “..because (to my understanding), she has the studies relating to piracy on file, and can produce evidence that will directly relate to your propositions.”
      
      No, i have not, and that’s the whole point. I never said that piracy can’t constitute a problem to certain parties(it might, although no sustainable data seems to indicate it today), or that there exists any that says that it definitely doesn’t.
      
      But what is a fact is that after, say 40 years of home copying, and 15 years of filesharing, there exists not one single scientific study that proves that non-profit piracy constitutes an actual problem to neither society, the economy, culture, creators, the content industry’s current record revenues or the goal with copyright, despite the fact that several scientific studies has been made over the last ten years regarding filesharing and before that regarding home copying. As such there’s absolutely no need for any legislative countermeasures to non-profit piracy. Non-profit use shouldn’t be illegal in the first place if the rules for drafting legitimate legislation had been followed.
      
      Most copyright monopoly fanatics seems to argue that since the copyright monopoly does exist, any intrusion into it constitutes a problem out of principle, but as anyone with the slightest intelligence know that is text book circular reasoning, and as such it is not an argument at all. It’s simply an ignorant misconception and inability to grasp logics.
      
      But then again, you don’t care for my debating. =)
    - Dirty_Bear
      
      “That tells me nothing. I’m asking for a detailed description of your standards, not just your opinion of your own standards. I will ask you again;
      what are your standards for scientific evidence?”
      
      For me to deem something as true scientific evidence, with regards to statistical studies. It is important that, firstly, It can be demonstrated that,
      the person or persons responsible for the studies has not allowed for their bias to creep into the methods used to collect analyse and document the
      findings. The data must be collected from individuals whom also can be shown as not have any bias to the subject matter at hand. Obviously, the data
      has to be analysed using the scientific method and all relevant procedures must by documented and made publicly available.
      
      “Not quite. The studies have used various measures. One study has used electronic monitoring to determine purchasing habits. Another has used a
      convergence of S-data, B-data, and I-data to determine purchasing data (I have been told this is vague. By S, B and I, I am referring to behavioral
      data, self-reported data, and informant-reported data. In short, they asked pirates about their purchasing habits, requested access to their
      financial records to verify these purchasing habits, and asked informants (friends or family) about the purchasing habits of the individual. When
      these three types of data converge on a similar answer, we have a much stronger reason to reject the null and come to the conclusion that the data
      is accurate (statistical analysis allowing, of course)). To suggest that all studies have relied solely on asking pirates is false.”
      
      So, basically, it is about data collected from individuals with a bunch of fancy terms like S-Data, B-Data and I-Data thrown in for extra effect.
      Either way, show me some evidence or I’m not buying it.
      
      “Incorrect. To begin with, not everything can be studied with the scientific method. If I ask you what religion is correct, or what system of
      government we should have, I am questions that can not have testable, falsifiable questions attached to them. These questions can not be answered by
      science.”
      
      But that is the thing. You could easily study these things with the scientific method. It all depends on what one deems as “correct” or the “best”
      system in this case. I could state that I will determine that the correct religion is based on the one with the adherents that are seen to be the most
      moral. Stupid premise I know but not too different than saying I will determine whether piracy is a problem by asking pirates.
      
      I could gather up a range of people from different faiths, look at their criminal records. Look how much they give to charity analysis the data using
      the scientific method. Do you believe that my results can then be submitted as scientific evidence to answer the question, which religion is correct?
      
      “Secondly, anything that can be studied with systematic empiricism produces data that is, by definition, scientific evidence.”
      
      Well, that is very much debatable and I guess it depends on ones standards and the questions that the evidence is attempting to prove.
      
      “Data can be interpreted incorrectly, but it is always scientific evidence. Even if the pirate studies were what you suggested, where scientists
      only asked pirates about their habits, that would scientific validity. It would be invalid to suggest that such data could be interpreted as being
      accurate of reality, but the data would still tell us what pirates were willing to answer to, and would therefore have value to psychological
      interpretations.”
      
      I’m talking about scientific evidence submitted to prove an initial hypothesis. If I do a study providing evidence that the earth has a core but summit it
      stating that this is scientific evidence that Jupiter has more than one moon. The response would be this does not constitute as scientific evidence
      that supports your theory. Yes, it can be used as scientific evidence to support another theory at another time but then it will be judged in a
      different light.
      
      “You have made this claim, but you haven’t justified it. You haven’t shown how the studies of piracy meet the definition of psuedoscience. (I should
      note that even if you were right about what piracy studies are, which you aren’t, that still wouldn’t be psuedoscience, it would be an incorrect
      interpretation of actual scientific data. If something is psuedoscientific, it must fail to use the scientific method. If I understand you
      correctly, you don’t debate that the piracy studies used the scientific method, you only debate whether or not they made a proper interpretation of
      data.)”
      
      Nope, I wasn’t actually saying that I believe studies into piracy use the the scientific method. I actually believe the contrary. Someone referenced
      the scientific method and, for the sake of argument, I made the assumption that they did. You are correct though. I haven’t justified my statement and I apologise for that. I have, however, never come across a study with regards to piracy that makes proper use of the scientific method. Most
      I’ve seen to use unreliable data or provide little or no documentation into how the study was carried out. I have also seen such studies presented a
      few times as scientific evidence. An example of such a study:
      
      http://adage.com/article/digital-columns/media-cos-customers-p2p-users/138587/
      
      “First, I want to ask you to operationally define exactly what constitutes a problem. Is piracy a problem if people pirate more often then they buy, unrelated to how much the publisher/developer makes? Is piracy a problem if people pirate less often than they buy, unrelated to how much the publisher/developer makes? Is piracy a problem if it causes publishers/developers to make less money? Is piracy a problem if it does not cause publishers/developers to make less money, or if it causes them to make more money?”
      
      Although, it is not really my responsibility to define what constitutes a problem as it was Fredrika who stated.
      
      “there exists no scientific evidence that supports the thesis that on-line non-profit piracy constitutes any kind of problem whatsoever”
      
      There are many reasons why, in my eyes , piracy is a problem. I, however, do not have the time nor the desire to explain them in detail. We can save that for another time. I will, however, list them for you. All of these reasons are obviously based on my experience and anecdotal evidence.
      
      Piracy leads to a spoilt attitude. This is due to the ability to get whatever one wants whenever one wants. This leads to items being perceived as having less value. For example. If I could have any car I wanted at any time I wanted the previous value I associated with a Ferrari F50 may have dwindled to the point of it being worthless.
      
      Piracy can lead to lost sales. This occurs when a pirate would have made a legal purchase had the ability to aquire it via piracy been unavailable.
      
      Piracy is unethical. Could a pirate really pirate if the content creator was sitting in the room with them. If not way not?
      
      Piracy can put a strain on free services created for the purchasers of a product. For example customer support or the gaming servers as demonstrated in the link I provided earlier.
      
      Piracy makes it difficult to judge a products performance. For example. A game is produced that obtains a 90% review score by both users and critics. This game however did very poorly in sales but reached the top download list in a number of major torrent sites. Did this game do fail because of piracy or was there something else at play? The question then arises. What went wrong and how do we, rationally, discount piracy and improve things for the next iteration?
      
      lastly piracy seems to have spawned a community where propaganda is favoured over rational discourse. Where people appear to have a hive mind mentality. But I guess the internet is more to blame for this than anything else.
      
      “Case studies prove little, and these are weak case studies.”
      
      You have made this claim, but you haven’t justified it. Sorry just had to throw it back at you.
      
      “Finally, regarding Fredrika; Your opinion of her debating skill does not interest me. I don’t particularly care for her debating, and it’s not a reason why I recommended you to her. I recommended you to her because (to my understanding), she has the studies relating to piracy on file, and can produce evidence that will directly relate to your propositions.”
      
      She has already answered that one for you.
    - Guest
      
      @flphpp:disqus
      
      “No, i have not, and that’s the whole point.”
      
      My apologies then. I was attempting to illustrate that the problem of piracy, as typically conceived of (involving the loss of profits, the idea of lost sales, etc..) has little scientific data supporting it and numerous studies presenting evidence against it. (it’s obvious that piracy can represent a problem depending on how you define “problem”). I redirected him to you on the assumption that you had those studies on file. Seeing as you do not, I apologize for my assumption, and I will search for the studies myself so that I may present them if requested.
      
      As for the rest of your post, you are absolutely correct. There is nothing to correct.
      
      Oh, and about not being fond of your debating; I must point out that everything you say is always factual and correct. My only complaint is that while you write facts, you don’t do the best job at finding out what the exact flaws in logic are that the specific anti-pirate is using, and correcting them at that flaw in logic. For explaining facts so that pirates can understand them, you are among the best. For explaining these facts to the anti-pirates, you are… well, you’re still among the best, but slightly worse.
      
      But then again, it’s the internet. Perhaps I ask far too much of you to actually convince someone here. I do suppose that it may not be fair to hold you to that higher (and somewhat impossible) standard. That being the case, I acknowledge that whatever distaste I have may not be fair or rational.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “I must point out that everything you say is always factual and correct. My only complaint is that while you write facts, you don’t do the best job at finding out what the exact flaws in logic are that the specific anti-pirate is using, and correcting them at that flaw in logic.”
      
      But that is not always my goal when writing comments to those that have already proven themselves to be hell-bent on distorting reality, or denying copyright. Their main problem isn’t ignorance that can be helped, if that was the case they would have come around ages ago when having facts pointed out to them, their main problem is cognitive dissonance, and as such i find other approaches more meaningful for the bigger picture, than seriously trying to explain something to them.
      
      > “For explaining facts so that pirates can understand them, you are among the best. For explaining these facts to the anti-pirates, you are… well, you’re still among the best, but slightly worse.”
      
      I’ll settle for a silver medal. =)
      
      > “But then again, it’s the internet. Perhaps I ask far too much of you to actually convince someone here.”
      
      No, it is not and i have, but that has been with people who haven’t prematurely been hell-bent on not accepting facts. Those who have an ignorant opinion in a flawed direction, and come here with an open mind are few for natural reasons.
      
      > “That being the case, I acknowledge that whatever distaste I have may not be fair or rational.”
      
      You just hate little girls with big heads!! I knew it!! =)
    - Guest
      
      “…it can be
      demonstrated that, the person or persons responsible for the studies has
      not allowed for their bias to creep into the methods used to collect
      analyse and document the findings. The data must be collected from
      individuals whom also can be shown as not have any bias to the subject
      matter at hand. Obviously, the data has to be analysed using the
      scientific method and all relevant procedures must by documented and
      made publicly available.”
      
      Regarding your standards; I would note that data collected from sources with bias can still be useful if, and only if, the bias can be factored into the analysis and/or the data can be verified or supported with purely empirical sources. That’s jsut a small complaint though, and your standards do appear to be normal.
      
      “Even purchasing history can be dismissed as the pirate could make more
      purchases than usual to taint the results. Either way, show me some
      evidence or I’m not buying it.”
      
      First, S, B, and I data are not fancy terms (or at least, I did not intend to use them that way), it’s very, very generic psychology. If I wanted to be fancy, I’d do better than that. Second, dismissing purchasing histories is not relevant. Purchases are only measured from before the time of the study. That’s a source of probable error that is not present in the study. As for the study in question; (Edit: the direct link to the study appears to have gone bad. I can provide you with this link. In addition, I can tell you that the study was done in 2009 by Professor Anne-Britt Gran of the BI Norwegian School of Management. I’ll try to find a stable link. For the meantime, I’ll leave this here.)
      http://www.techradar.com/us/news/internet/online-music-pirates-buy-the-most-music-593366
      
      Also, I’d like to note that science typically holds that anyone making a positive claim has the burden of evidence. You (or anti-pirates in general) are making the assertive claim that piracy causes harm to the profits of developers. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate harm. Do you have a study to justify your view? If so, may I see it?
      
      “You could easily study these things with the scientific method. It all
      depends on what one deems as “correct” or the “best” system in this
      case. I could state that I will determine that the correct religion is
      based on the one with the adherents that are seen to be the most moral.
      Stupid premise I know but not too different than saying I will determine
      whether piracy is a problem by asking pirates.”
      
      Your operational definition for the religion example lacks validity. Instead of being an empirical judgement, you have made it into a value judgement. You can assign an operational definition to anything, but that doesn’t make it valid. You can study which one has the fewest contradictions, but not whether or not any religion is better. That’s why it’s not scientific. For piracy, we aren’t studying whether or not piracy is right. We’re studying whether any particular testable question can be found to be true.
      
      “Do you believe that my results can then be submitted as scientific
      evidence to answer the question, which religion is correct? ”
      
      Science can’t. Individuals can use it to make decisions about what they suspect to be true, and governments could use it to make laws (governments shouldn’t because of anti-descrimination laws, but they could.) You can’t use it to determine whether or not the religion is correct. Likewise, I’m not claiming that any science can prove that piracy is a morally correct thing to do. I am claiming that no scientific data shows that piracy causes financial harm.
      
      “I wasn’t actually saying that I believe studies into piracy use
      the the scientific method. I actually believe the contrary. Someone
      referenced the scientific method and, for the sake of argument, I made
      the assumption that they did.”
      
      Fair enough. I’ll retract that bit of the argument.
      
      “You are correct though. I haven’t
      justified my statement and I apologise for that. I have, however, never
      come across a study with regards to piracy that makes proper use of the
      scientific method.”
      
      Thank you for your statement. It’s refreshing to see politeness. I mean that sincerely.
      
      Secondly, if you haven’t seen a study regarding piracy that makes use of the scientific method, then I’ll submit that skepticism should lead you to question the idea that piracy causes economic harm until it is proven in a scientific study.
      
      “I am not stating that this study claims to be a scientific study by the way.
      
      http://adage.com/article/digit…”
      
      Surveys can be scientific, but only if controlled. You are correct that this study does not appear to be scientific.
      
      “Although, it is not really my responsibility to define what constitutes a problem
      
      There are many reasons why, in my eyes , piracy is a problem. I,
      however, do not have the time nor the desire to explain them in detail.
      We can save that for another time.
      All of these reasons are obviously based on my experience and anecdotal
      evidence.”
      
      It isn’t your responsibility
      
      Piracy leads to a spoilt attitude. This is due to the ability to get
      whatever one wants whenever one wants. This leads to items being
      perceived as having less value. For example. If I could have any car I
      wanted, at any time I wanted, the previous value I associated with a
      Ferrari F50 may have dwindled to the point of it being worthless.
      
      I’m not certain this is completely true. I can see the logic behind what you say, but playing a game or watching a movie still requires a significant time investment, enough to affect percieved value heavily. (This may be true for music). That’s just conjecture on my part though. I’d ask why this is particularly important. Someone’s attitude about a cultural product does not seem like a good consideration in the question of whether or not piracy should be legal.
      
      “Piracy can lead to lost sales. This occurs when a pirate would have
      made a legal purchase had the ability to acquire it via piracy been
      unavailable.”
      
      I’m iffy here too. I know there are studies about this, but I don’t know any current ones, so I can’t discuss them. I do want you to consider a possibility though. (I’m assuming here that you dislike lost sales because they lead to less profit for the developer). The first is that piracy acts as a marketing force for an unknown product. A pirate may acquire an unknown product because they have no cost for doing so, like it, and recommend it to friends who may purchase it (this assumes that the pirate did not purchase it). For small content, this can be beneficial. For large well-marketed content… no clue. Need to research. As a question though, if this marketing did lead to increased revenue, as some game developers believe it does (Notch, CD Projekt, etc), then would you be fine with the idea of lost sales, or would you dislike them for their own existence, regardless of their influence on profit. (I have been told that that sounds a bit like a loaded question. I do not intend it as such. I really do want to know.)
      
      “Piracy is unethical. Could a pirate really pirate if the content creator was sitting in the room with them. If not way not?”
      
      It’s a moral question here. Can’t really dissuade this. Many would pirate something if the content creator was in the room. Many wouldn’t. I don’t personally consider it unethical because it does not cause harm, but that’s just a tenant of my ethical standard. For me, piracy can be disrespectful, but not unethical.
      
      Piracy can put a strain on free services created for the purchasers
      of a product. For example customer support or the gaming servers as
      demonstrated in the link I provided earlier.
      
      This is very true, but it can be relatively easily warded off by the developers. However, in the instances where piracy does cause such a negative effect, then if the pirates could prevent this (such as in the Demigod example where a small change by the people who uploaded it would prevent the server use), then it should be judged harshly. No argument.
      
      “Piracy makes it difficult to judge a products performance. For
      example. A game is produced that obtains a 90% review score by both
      users and critics. This game however did very poorly in sales but
      reached the top download list in a number of major torrent sites. Did
      this game do fail because of piracy or was there something else at play?
      The question then arises. What went wrong and how do we, rationally,
      discount piracy and improve things for the next iteration?
      
      lastly piracy seems to have spawned a community where propaganda is
      favoured over rational discourse. Where people appear to have a hive
      mind mentality. But I guess the internet is more to blame for this than
      anything else.”
      
      I can understand the annoyance of having an additional variable added to the question of financial success or failure, but I can’t blame piracy for that annoyance. I do see how that could cause personal dislike.
      
      “Case studies prove little, and these are weak case studies.” You have made this claim, but you haven’t justified it. Sorry just had to throw it back at you.
      
      :) Is good. If you want, I could go into a long, boring, well-cited rant about the value of case studies in creating proofs… but that sounds really dull. I’m boring myself just thinking about it. Let’s not do that.
      
      I saw the Fredrika thing. Apologized to her. My bad for making an incorrect suggestion.
      
      Anyway, I probably won’t respond to any more posts. This isn’t anything against you or your arguments, but this took up a ton of my time to write. Not gonna have that much time for the next few days. Have a good ay.
      Ievidence that will directly relate to your
      propositions.”
      
      She has already answered that one for you.”
    - Scary Devil Monastery
      
      Scientists beg to differ. There is ample peer-reviewed definite falsification of the theory that “piracy” causes loss of sales.
      
      Which leaves us with the idea of copyright holders being able to strangle people’s internet connection entirely without respecting burden of evidence for no reason what so ever, save that of the ideology of information control.
      
      From a social standpoint there is no justification for a three-strikes law. From a moral perspective such a regime doesn’t even have public backing. That leaves us with only one option: Removing those laws.
      
      Fredrika isn’t to my knowledge a part of TF’s moderators. However, it comes as no surprise that your regular ip ranges keep getting blocked when your usual commentary, as above, demonstrably consists of straw men, lies, and implied ad hominems only.
      
      It simply means you’ve been pegged as a person who brings no facts to the discussion.
    - Dirty_Bear
      
      Guest do you have to go? Come on Guest don’t leave me alone with these guys. I was having so much fun.
      
      You can make a point without having to use bold text, using logic alone to carry it. I haven’t had a debate like that on here for like… Well ever! Guest!!!!!!!! ;(
    - Fredrika
      
      > “Fredrika isn’t to my knowledge a part of TF’s moderators.”
      
      During the last six years i’ve been regularly accused of being both the former leader of the Swedish Pirate party, an elected pirate MEP of the EU parliament, and not one but two different founders of Pirate Bay. As such i obviously hold an honorary position as secret moderator of all forums worldwide. Believing this does in no way indicate that pro-copyright monopoly fanatics suffer from any sort of paranoia.
  - Jimbo
    
    just for information, it is actually completely illegal to disconnect customers, in the EU. the practice itself has been banned! check with Rick Falkvinge
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      No it isn’t. According to typical user agreements, the ISP can disconnect the user at any time if the user doesn’t follow the agreements. User agreements refer to not breaking laws, including copyright laws. Since the user has already signed the agreement, the ISP can disconnect the user accordingly.
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      those user agreements don’t hold up in court
      
      but sadly that EU ruling had exemptions for countries already planning those silly strike programs, including France
    - Guest
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus Even if the 6 strike laws were to happen in the USA the ISP’s will still not disconnect users lol
    - John Spartan
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus Those agreements are for the ISP to enforce, not a 3rd party. If I violate copyright then you can sue the ISP, then the ISP can pass the costs incured on to me, as per their TOS.You cant sue me over someone else’s TOS.
    - Scary Devil Monastery
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      
      Yes it certainly is illegal, according to EU law, to disconnect customers based on a HADOPI/Three strikes-scheme.
      
      France explicitly obtained permission to evade this law because it was already in effect by the time the EU got around to banning such handling of the internet.
      
      This is rather unambiguous. That you would claim differently once again pegs you as either ignorant of the facts…or lying through your teeth. Which one is it?
      
      Indeed, according to precedent, the EU can at will revoke such exceptions as soon as a single case finds itself to the ECJ or ECHR. France is currently relying exclusively on their exception standing because no issues have yet been raised.
      
      Before talking BS regarding “user agreements”, please bear in mind that a user agreement or EULA can never at any time void consumer protection laws, nor the law of the land. You may be able to sign a contract where the fine print revokes your right to bed your wife. The law is quite clear how much weight such a paragraph would have – none.
      
      In your example given if an ISP in any european nation other than france does so void a contract then that ISP must prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the consumer is in fact guilty, placing the burden of proof on them. Or they are open to rather heavy lawsuit by their consumers. This is the way the EU laws work (and before them, consumer protection laws on a local level, such as the Swedish ELKOM).
      
      And if you had any knowledge of the law whatsoever you would be quite aware of this fact already.
- Guest
  
  4th Warning: Reduction to 1 kbit/s.
  5th Warning: We put bullets in your ass and your corporate paymasters.
- Guest
  
  Funny how you forgot that people would stop paying internet access or simply change ISP.
  - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
    
    All ISPs will have to comply.
    - Anyone
      
      lol
      
      good luck with that
    - Guest
      
      Not if there no laws in the ISP’s country forcing them to do so. Nor do the ISP’s come under the jurisdiction of another countrys laws.
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @f27bedfd8deab535b84cd8fb1fbfc0a2:disqus
      
      “Not if there no laws in the ISP’s country forcing them to do so.”
      
      There will be. Since the Internet is world-wide, there will be common laws eventually.
    - Guest
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus “There will be. Since the Internet is world-wide, there will be common laws eventually”
      
      SOPA is DEAD, PIPA is DEAD and ACTA is DEAD. What part of common laws eventually do you NOT understand lol
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @f27bedfd8deab535b84cd8fb1fbfc0a2:disqus
      
      “SOPA is DEAD, PIPA is DEAD and ACTA is DEAD.”
      
      Perhaps. But will be replaced by others. They must have learned by now that the packaging must be done a lot smarter. Many small steps instead of complicated agreements covering too much at the same time. The frogs (pirates) will be boiled sooner or later.
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      or hopefully the criminal organizations driving those laws are disbanded before that
      
      it is astonishing how you applaud losing all your freedoms just so that a failed industry can cling on to their profits
    - Danny
      
      ”Perhaps. But will be replaced by others. They must have learned by now that the packaging must be done a lot smarter.”
      
      Surely they should realise that the small minority that they represent can’t beat the public who these idiot politicians represent.
      
      Fortunately for us the likes of the pirate party, and the fact that the MAFIAA don’t understand the internet, has lead to a massive surge in young people being interested in politics and seeing the corruption that goes on thanks to the likes of you. No laws that fuck with the internet will get passed from now on.
    - Justafriendlyswede
      
      “Perhaps. But will be replaced by others. They must have learned by now that the packaging must be done a lot smarter”
      
      So you believe people are stupid? I don’t think you understand this nejtillpirater, but our side is growing thanks to this thing called the internet and your side, well, when is the last time you saw thousands of website voluntarily go black, thousands call their representatives and thousands gather in the street in support of limiting access to the internet and increasing censorship?
      
      The only advantage your side has is money, money for paying off politicians, money for failed television ads and “conscience campaigns” and all the money made by lawyers, made off dead musicians, made off students and nurses and innovators and whatever entity you can try to sue and scare and blame for the Dark Knight Rises only grossing 600 million in 13 days…
      
      Take a look at this picture and tell me how all the money is working out for ya?
      
      http://www.rt.com/files/news/acta-eu-parliament-vote-400/parliament-vote-trade-european.n.jpg
    - Scary_Devil_Monastery
      
      “”SOPA is DEAD, PIPA is DEAD and ACTA is DEAD.”
      Perhaps. But will be replaced by others. They must have learned by now that the packaging must be done a lot smarter. Many small steps instead of complicated agreements covering too much at the same time. The frogs (pirates) will be boiled sooner or later.”
      what you are saying is, in essence, that if the people in a democracy strike down proposed legislation, you should lie to them in order to get the legislation through anyway.
      Thank you for clarifying your stance on this issue.
- MadAsASnake
  
  No reduction is acceptable on unsubstantiated and unprovable allegations – which IP has proven to be.
- Plop
  
  Reduction in bandwidth or disconnection? Neither makes any commercial sense. In the age where high-street music stores have closed more or less everywhere and physical or digital content predominantly available purely through online sources (Amazon, iTunes Music Store, Play, We7, Spotify and the like) how can denying or severely restricting potential customers’ access to the ‘legal’ options increase sales?
  
  Ready, take aim at foot, FIRE!!!
  
  More evidence suggesting that the ‘MAFIAA’ have absolutely no desire to best serve their members’ contracted artists’ interests and every desire to regain monopoly control over distribution channels.
- Guest
  
  Wait, what? After all of his mindless cheerleading for the copyright industry, after all of his condemnation of filesharers(revolving mostly around lies), he only wants their connection speed to be reduced to 10kbps in the worst case senario?
  
  Interesting. I think there are two possible reasons for this.
  
  1. Nej is trying to appear reasonable, although that ship has sailed.
  
  2. The MAFIAA is planning to abandon disconnections and push for bandwidth throttling instead in the near future, and Nej is passing on this information because he’s one of their mouthpieces.
  - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
    
    The reason is simply that I think that bandwidth throttling is the best solution. It will reduce the level of illegal downloading but at the same time enable use of other services.
    - The 99%
      
      Funny thing about technology. You know… it evolves and stuff. Unless you plan on permanently turning off the power grid everywhere, any gimmicks you try will never suppress the will of the people. While that’s true in the general sense, it’s especially true of the age of freedom and knowledge we live in.
      
      Welcome to the 21st century. We still have a long way to go, but you should probably leave that caveman club behind, and probably learn how fire works.
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @238f3c2040caaea1c87f27dd7663cab6:disqus
      
      Yes, funny thing about technology…
      
      File-sharing over P2P is technology from the 20th century.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “File-sharing over P2P is technology from the 20th century.”
      
      You may claim that, but as we established the other day. which you didn’t seem to disagree with, Spotify and all other authorised services is technology belonging to a even older century, since they offer an clearly inferior service compared to P2P filesharing.
      
      Spotify etc has several limitations, and consumes meaningless economical resources that adds additional cost. P2P filesharing has none of those limitations, and it functions for free, demanding no economical resources that aren’t already there. In a normal universe, where the rest of us lives, a service which has several consumer hostile limitations, a service which requires meaningless economical resources, is considered an invention belonging to an older century than an invention which has no limitations, demands no economical resources and offer a better product.
      
      So if filesharing is technology from the 20th century, Spotify and all the other authorized services belong to the 19th century.
    - Scary_Devil_Monastery
      
      It’s rather amusing to watch you go from one losing supposition to the next without stopping on the way.
      
      First of all, in the infancy of filesharing everyone was used to doing so over rather narrow bandwidth. Indeed, the rule rather than the norm was always that you set your downloads and they kept ticking away over the course of a day. It’s only over the last few years that bandwidth has exploded towards a standard of 10-100 Mbit/s. And in 90% of the cases, you still won’t get even 1/10th of that sort of bandwidth on a torrent anyway.
      
      Bandwidth throttling is not an option. If you have enough of it to run a streaming app for legal services then you have enough to fileshare. It may take an hour to download a movie instead of 15 minutes, but it certainly won’t impact filesharing where you already assume that downloading whatever you were looking for over p2p will take anything from an hour to a day, depending on seed ratios and upload bandwidth.
      
      In short your only proposal is to attempt pulling back the filesharing paradigm to the time when it truly exploded. That won’t reduce piracy. We already know this for a fact. What you actually do is that you use said bandwidth to compete with legal services – which is a losing proposition given that the throttled consumer will certainly link them to the companies insisting that his access should be throttled.
      
      I recall a year ago you were singing paeans to disconnections on other blogs. Now that you’ve finally managed to wrap your head around the obvious – that it won’t work – you immediately drive down yet another dead-end.
      
      Seriously…at least give five minutes worth of thought before firing off yet another ill-conceived hypothesis backed only by a knee-jerk reaction and faulty data,…
- ScrewEwe2
  
  Nejtillpirater, There’s a party at Sarkozy’s house. Free cocaine and booze but you must BYOMSS (Bring Your Own Male Sex Slave).
  
  PS Don’t bring any of your kindergarten buddies, there are laws against that.
  - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
    
    So you’ve got an invitation to this highly questionable party. I haven’t and I’m not interested, thank you.
hoo hoo

I wonder where this dimwit Sarkozy is right now
- jesuschrist
  
  In his mansion, with his millions of dollars, cocaine and male sex slaves.
ericore

FILE SHARING IS TOO MAINSTREAM, YOUD HAVE TO JAIL THE WHOLE POPULATION AND THAT MIGHT DETERMINE 50%.

FREEDOM!!!
- Obama’s Sex Master
  
  We should jail all the whole population first and suspect them later
- http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
  
  Shoplifting is also “mainstream” but most shoplifters do not go to jail.
  - Anyone
    
    it’s not “mainstream”
    it is fairly uncommon and most of society frown upon it
    
    compare that with piracy which most of society will agree upon
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      It’s rather common, unfortunately. According to a Swedish policeman I’ve spoken to, about one third of the people have done shoplifting at least one time. Despite the fact that most of society frown upon it. Same with speeding but I’d say that at least 99% of all drivers do that regularly.
      
      You’re heavily biased regarding “piracy which most of society will agree upon”.
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      “once in their life”, that doesn’t really count as “mainstream”
      
      sharing culture is much more common, everybody does it, it is taught in kindergarten because it is so important for mankind
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @f05af58b8c10e93b3595bb996aad4e5d:disqus
      
      “it is taught in kindergarten”
      
      I’ve heard of Promo Bay.
      
      Have they started a Kindergarten Bay?
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      you haven’t been taught to share in kindergarten?
      that would explain so much
      
      what a sad life you must have
    - Guest
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus To share something is NOT a crime and majority of people will not frown on people sharing something with someone else.
    - Lolk
      
      @f05af58b8c10e93b3595bb996aad4e5d:disqus
      
      Consider this; the majority of people who engage in piracy do not “share” anything. They will never post a torrent, and their only action to aiding the sharing culture will be leaving their torrent program open so it can seed. I don’t know what you were taught about sharing in school, but when I went to class, it meant we had to actually give something to someone else, not just leave the computer on.
      
      That isn’t to say that some people don’t share. I know that some do, but most don’t. It’s weird to call it a sharing culture when the good majority don’t share.
    - Anyone
      
      @d565b479464d781322517897cbd2df86:disqus
      of course people are sharing
      when you torrent you will always upload something back
      
      and yes, prior to the internet sharing often meant losing something, at least temporarily
      but with this new technology this drawback has been removed, now sharing only has upsides, so it should be encouraged as much as possible
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @f05af58b8c10e93b3595bb996aad4e5d:disqus
      
      “You haven’t been taught to share in kindergarten?
      that would explain so much
      
      what a sad life you must have”
      
      Yes I have. I’ve been taught that sharing something I rightfully own is a good thing. Stealing or sharing something I don’t own or down have the right to share with others is bad. That’s what we learn in kindergarten here in Sweden and elsewhere in the society.
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      I rightfully own the bits and bytes on my computer and I choose to share them
      
      nothing gets stolen, isn’t that great?
    - Plop
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus “Yes I have. I’ve been taught that sharing something I rightfully own is a good thing.”
      So you agree that it’s perfectly OK for anyone who rightfully owns an original copy of a CD or digital download (if that second one isn’t itself an oxymoron) to share it?
      
      You never seem to incorporate real life into your ideals about ‘piracy’ and that’s where your utopian dream falls apart.
      
      Imagine you have a party, and there are 20 or 30 people at that party. You decide to put some music on (or in other words, share it with everybody present), but wait a minute, that constitutes a public performance or broadcast. Suddenly you owe royalty payments to your relevant local collection agency, and not only that, but you’ve broken the law by having a public performance/broadcast without the relevant entertainments licence. Now what? Should you turn yourself in to the police, because you’ve committed an actual criminal offence alongside your civil infringement? This is the law. It’s the way it is currently written. You seem to be of the opinion that the law should be followed to the letter so in that situation what would you personally do?
      
      I’ll tell you what most other people would do. They’d not even consider what they were doing to be a crime, an infringement or anything even vaguely wrong. They’d feel like they were having a good time and by spreading those good feelings through their sharing of the culture in the musical recordings they’d probably think they were doing exactly the opposite – something very very right. The majority of people ‘pirate’ in this way regularly without ever realising that they are a ‘pirate’. They may have their car stereo on very loud, or be listening to iTunes in the office, but they’re all ‘pirating’ according to the law because other people can hear it. This is why the law as it is currently written is nonsensical – it doesn’t reflect the accepted norms of society. Such a shame then that the only changes we ever hear about to reform copyright wish to make it even less relevant to accepted societal norms.
    - Lolk
      
      @f05af58b8c10e93b3595bb996aad4e5d:disqus
      
      It doesn’t involve loss, it doesn’t take any time or effort, it’s not sharing. That doesn’t mean that it’s a bad thing; you can still believe that downloading or uploading can still be a good activity, but it’s not sharing. It doesn’t have to be sharing to be good.
    - Scary_Devil_Monastery
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      
      “According to a Swedish policeman I’ve spoken to, about one third of the people have done shoplifting at least one time.”
      
      Almost every school kid, at one time or other, shoplifts some item on a dare or due to social pressure. The main majority feels very bad about it and never repeat the offence. As some people have taken the pains to point out, A one-time occurrence can never be considered “mainstream”.
      
      Do you perhaps peg people who have been drunk once in their lives as “alcoholics”? It would fit the same criteria you seem to apply.
  - Fredrika
    
    > “Shoplifting is also “mainstream”..”
    
    No it is not. Filesharing is something which is conducted regularly by 20-50% of the population in countries where Internet connection is as household standard, and around a billion people in total globally. That is statistics that indeed would classify it as main stream, but those numbers in no way reflect the minority that regularly shoplifts.
    
    Secondly, you are aware of the fact that you again resorted to guilt by association, when you brought a completely different and irrelevant crime into the discussion, a crime which neither logically, legislatively nor socially shares any similarities whatsoever with the act of performing an intrusion into a legislation monopoly.
  - MadAsASnake
    
    I suppose that if a shoplifter escapes in a car we should rip up all the roads to stop it happening again?
    - Justafriendlyswede
      
      If that car happens to be your car you should be brought to jail and sued for what that person did in your car as well because you left the door unlocked…
    - DiscretionOrValor
      
      According to the logic these “anti-piracy” tyrants use, yes. That’s if you take it through the logical conclusion instead of stopping half-way and filling the argument with pure, uncut BS about how your standards are so high you have to be right, hoping that you’ve spewed enough garbage to distract people from the fact that you have no prima facie to begin with.
      
      Oh, and don’t forget to call your opponents names and belittle their character every chance you get, because it makes you look learned, mature, and trustworthy.
  - ericore
    
    Clearly you don’t get it. Millions of people use file sharing. Millions. Anyone who says its uncommon is either a fool or works for the enemy. Given so many people do it, you would have to arrest all of them, because they would continue to do it no matter what. Anyone who file shares does it more than once, another fool. And even if you jailed all file sharers, half of them would still file share once they were out of prison. You will always lose the war, for the ppl and masters who back are far too powerful and no matter how much funds you throw at your take downs, we will laugh at you eternally.
Waseihou

Well, the problem is that entertaintment industry already lost it’s credit by destroying lives of several people for really stupid reasons. Because of those disproportionate actions, I will never buy from them even if the content is good. They have already lost their customers…

What I really want is to transparently see where my money goes when I buy a content – what it is spend on and who recieves them. Then I can make informed decision whether the cash is really spend on artists and people who somehow contribute to the creation (mastering, drawing graphics, even renting studio for reasonable price…) or wheter some managers take a huge profit – managers who are good for nothing in this age of internet where people can self-organize for common goal.

Create such a service, and you can profit again. A lot of works are somewhat connected to it’s subculture and then spending money on them might be providing support to that subculture. That’s a real selling point.
- Guest
  
  Oh yeah, some corporations have gotten so big they can’t even see the people from up there.
  Big media corporations like all those linked to the MAFIAA are the best examples, they’ve gone completely out of touch with the fans, they choose to demonize them and hurt innocents. That’s now the way to make a good business, that’s the way to make enemies.
  Mass lawsuits might bring some easy cash today but they are an awful way to build a loyal long term consumer base.
  
  But look at it from the bright side, even though these companies bribe, lie, bully, coerce, and manipulate the system as much as they can to make the governments help them remain in power, the free market is the final boss.
  And the free market tendency is towards smaller labels that do know what the fans want and are willing to put up the hard work needed to give a good service that will help people and bring them well earned profits.
John Space

C’est bon, très bon.
Guest

Looks like all the little cherubs under PelouzerTF’s desk just shit their pants. If I may borrow a quote from Team Fortress 2:

“I hear someone building DIAPER-CHANGING STATION!”
chronoss chiron

BUT the plan and people ae still working ROFL what a wind bag…reminds me gary slattery of 14 murray street lawn mowing the parking lot to get rid of dirt dont work and it pisses everyone off when you do this at 9am in morning
- John Spartan
  
  you can clean dirt off pavement with a lawn mower though, just as long as its not mud, but rather just dust.
  - ScrewEwe2
    
    I wonder if a lawn mower would work for clearing the driveway of snow? A leaf blower works great for dirt and small pebbles and also for a light fluffy snow.
quawonk

The MAFIAA wants it so much, let them use their billions to pay for it.
- me
  
  The MAFIAA are already paying for it… it’s called “campaign contributions” and outright “corruption” of the political personnel.
theonlyone

“The suspension of Internet access seems a disproportionate sanction against the end goal, she said”.

Makes me wonder if when they started to disconnect service people got pissed and cancelled. ISPs losing money would be a good reason to end this part of the program.
- http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
  
  The same rules/laws will have to apply to all legally operating ISPs.
  - Anyone
    
    they still lose money
    
    why does one industry have to suffer just because the MAFIAA can’t compete on the free market?
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      No they will not lose money. I’m sure that even pirates need at least one ISP so if all of them must comply, it’s rather pointless to switch to another ISP.
    - Guest
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus Pirates as you call them do NOT need the internet to commit piracy and we all know that the majority of piracy occurs offline which is impossible to control. You will never reduce piracy lol
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      @f27bedfd8deab535b84cd8fb1fbfc0a2:disqus
      
      “Pirates as you call them do NOT need the internet to commit piracy”
      
      I’m sure that most of them still can’t live without an internet connection.
    - Anyone
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      of course they will lose money
      why should I pay for my 100MBit line if it doesn’t go any faster than the cheapest connection?
      
      and they will be sued for “false advertising” or something similar when they throttle the connection
      
      again, why should another industry suffer just because the MAFIAA is failing at its job?
    - Guest
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus “I’m sure that most of them still can’t live without an internet connection”
      
      Most people can and will live without the internet. They will find other ways to share and this my friend you will never reduce or stop lol
    - Danny
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      
      People will not be without an internet connection. I would expect if anyone got disconnected it would soon go to the ECHR and be overturned in an instant.
      
      That goes the same for slowing it down to an unusable level like you say.
    - Plop
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      
      “The same rules/laws will have to apply to all legally operating ISPs.”
      
      “No they will not lose money. I’m sure that even pirates need at least one ISP so if all of them must comply, it’s rather pointless to switch to another ISP.”
      
      Your arguments here are contradictory. If your first statement is correct and all ISPs will have to respect an order to block a subscriber’s access then that subscriber will have no need for an ISP, because, as you rightly point out “it [would be] rather pointless to switch to another ISP” so the subscriber is more likely to just cancel the now unusable subscription. Ergo the ISP loses money.
      
      And to borrow an analogy from the entertainment cartels all of the other ISPs can record a ‘lost sale’ too, because they lost a ‘potential customer’. But the ‘lost sale’ is a strawman argument so I’ll retract that one… unlike the entertainment cartels. ;)
      
      Cutting off a customer’s access to your services does not make you money – you really really don’t need to be an economist to see this plain truth. Once again – ready, take aim at foot, FIRE!
    - ReasonsForPoliticalActivism
      
      Nejtillpirater
      
      Force all of them to comply and watch what happens to your business when you have ticked off enough people. The only reason you scumbags are even still in business is that the average human being is too lazy to actually do something. Until it becomes personal, that is.
      
      Consumers do not have to be at the mercy of their politicians. You and the “free market” serve US, the people. Understand this. Whatever wealth you gained was not created in a vacuum. We CAN take it from you once you start waving your broad ass thinking you own everything.
  - Nom
    
    ISP’s would still be loosing money since people would not be paying their ISP while they don’t have any internet connection.
  - jesuschrist
    
    Perhaps in France (which I highly doubt will happen anyway), but not for the rest of the world, you seem to have issues with your comprehension for jurisdiction.
  - MadAsASnake
    
    That you think there should be new laws made do cut people off in no way means there will be any. You know, one day slime like Dodd and Kuik will have to face the same laws that the rest of us do – rather than pretending that everything they say counts a law.
  - John Spartan
    
    I already run a pirate box, sharing without an ISP.
  - theonlyone
    
    That does not stop them from cancelling their service.
ricardo

What I can’t understand is why government should pay hadopi’s bill. Those 12 million euros should be paid by who wants hadopi implemented (RIIA and others). If they are not going to pay the bill, so forget hadopi. Well, let’s forget it anyway.
- John Spartan
  
  I wonder if I can get the government to pay my home security bill?
  same idea right?
Guest

No news about how PPTP VPN is completely unsafe?
https://www.cloudcracker.com/blog/2012/07/29/cracking-ms-chap-v2/
- jesuschrist
  
  That’s very old news really. But then again businesses are slow when it comes to security. in 1998 cryptoboffins yelled that md5 is BROKEN, yet we still use it to this day in critical parts where strong crypto is all that matters. Same shit with MSCHAP.
  - Danny
    
    MD5 is good for verifying download integrities. Not sure what else it is used for these days?
    - jesuschrist
      
      It’s not even good for that as collisions are very easy to produce.
    - http://twitter.com/ElsieyeyVieri ElsieyeyVieri
      
      like Barbara replied I can’t believe that a person can earn $7908 in 4 weeks on the network. did you see this(Click on menu Home)
  - http://twitter.com/ElsieyeyVieri ElsieyeyVieri
    
    …
    goo.gl/Wai9d
- Scary_Devil_Monastery
  
  This is old hat, really. Always use IPsec at the very least.
  
  One of the main reasons PPTP can be considered unsafe is also that it leaks the ipv6 protocol addressation. So if you use PPTP, always disable ipv6.
  
  That said breaking a PPTP encryption still requires resources. Meaning there is no profit in going after a few million filesharers when it takes significant amounts of time for each one you target.
DannyUfonek

So much wasted money, so much wasted money, that could be used for much better stuff!
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YesToPP

This is so typical nejtillpirater. Trolling the comments until they are totally useless for normal debates – that how he/she got his/her ass banned from Falkvinge’s personal blog. You got your own blog nejtillpirater, please stay there. If people want to debate you, they WILL come and debate you there – or are you having another week of low number of visitors again? Don’t force people that CLEARLY are not interested in hearing your drivel to do so.

You get proven wrong time and time again, but STILL you keep coming back spewing the same lies you have since the beginning. No wonder people get fed up with you and see you as nothing more than a troll – which I personally always has seen you as.

I used to enjoy reading the comments on TF, but now all I see is you spewing fallacies and lies all around the board.

So, nejtillpirater, please say something REMOTELY useful/truthful for the debate or please F.O.
- http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
  
  Are you trying to censor me with your lies and repeated ad hominem?
  
  How come that your ability to comment the actual subject is so low that you have to attack others instead?
  - Anyone
    
    you don’t seem to be able to learn anything
    that makes you dumb, a troll, or both
    
    but of course, you are free to express your misinformed opinions as much as the next guy
  - Fredrika
    
    > “Are you trying to censor me with your lies and repeated ad hominem?”
    
    Do you think you could specify which part of YesToPP’s comment that actually constituted a lie or ad hominem argument, so that we can explain to you why it in fact wasn’t that which you believed it to be?
  - YesToPP
    
    You take the cake nejtillpirater. How is us asking you to stay off this board censorship? We are NOT stopping you from continuing spewing you lies on your own blog. You are PERFECTLY welcome to keep doing that. Just don’t ram your own personal beliefs down other people’s throats who do not want you around because they KNOW you are nothing but a troll.
    
    You HAVE you freedom of speech – AT YOUR OWN BLOG – nobody trying to censor that one. So, again… Please F.O. from this blog if you have nothing useful/truthful to say.
    - http://nejtillpirater.wordpress.com/ Nejtillpirater
      
      So you ARE trying to censor me. I have the same right as everybody else to write on this blog.
    - Fredrika
      
      > “So you ARE trying to censor me.”
      
      Do you not understand the concept of censorship either? Because YesToPP hasn’t suggested any censorship in any of his comments?
      
      > “I have the same right as everybody else to write on this blog.”
      
      Which is exactly zero and none whatsoever. You are aware of this fact, right, that you have no right at all to write on this site? Right?
      
      Poor Gwenda, she should have taken a left.. =)
    - Scary_Devil_Monastery
      
      @nejtillpirater:disqus
      
      “So you ARE trying to censor me. I have the same right as everybody else to write on this blog.
      World English Dictionary (one of the meanings of censor):
      “any person who controls or suppresses the behaviour of others”
      That’s exactly what you’re trying to do.”
      
      I have a slew of posts from you where you expressly make the claim that said definition of censorship is not valid. Of course, this would be when a government agency implements said censorship against pirates which you for some reason felt should not abide by the same rules…
      So which of your completely contradictory statements would you consider true and which one an outright lie? You can hardly claim veracity of both.
      Honestly, Your ability to hang yourself with your own petard is, by now, becoming rather amusing…
  - Scary_Devil_Monastery
    
    Should we – once again – demonstrate a few of those posts where you are clearly lying? In no few cases even contradicting your own earlier words?
    
    And the only retort you can use to save face is – as usual – trying to defuse the factual statements made against you.
    
    As for “Ad hominem”…remind me, please, in which post on this forum you decided to actually claim Fredrika, by virtue of arguing with you, was the most evil person on earth, by necessity bypassing the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Bin Laden all at once?
    
    You do not have the required credibility to say anything about either lies or ad hominems. Those phenomena are your stock in trade and have been for three years or more.
- Guest
  
  Can’t even browse the comments because they’re just a mess, full of people falling for the bait.
  Might stop checking them or posting if it keeps up.
  What’s that? New MAFIAA strategy to flood comment sections on blogs?
  - Plop
    
    It’s nothing new. They’ve been paying shills to do this for years. ;)
    - Scary_Devil_Monastery
      
      Yes, but at least according to Nejtillpirater, the poor man isn’t even renumerated for making an ass of himself the way he does…
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http://twitter.com/ElsieyeyVieri ElsieyeyVieri

Marjorie responded I’m shocked that a stay at home mom able to earn $9745 in a few weeks on the network. did you look at this(Click on menu Home)
Steve Smith

This new french PM is good, they pushed so much for 3 strikes crap that is tax dollar paid yet, Hadopi hasn’t don’t a thing to promote legal alternatives to pirating. Legal and reasonable priced sources are only way its gonna curb piracy.
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Violated0

One more reason why the UK’s DEA is DOOMED. You would have hoped they would have seen sense and throttled this retarded turkey by now before millions more £££ is wasted but nooooooo.

Then it is ironic that recently big name members of the BPI called on the Government to hurry up to get the DEA up and running. I am sure they must have a missing link in their brain between wanting something and paying the asking price! Sure some people will use the scheme but this won’t be nearly enough to pay for the service. You can then rest assured that the public will have big issues with the Government wasting like Hadopi’s €12 million a year on a scheme attacking the public. Then like today the public will cheer as the Government then comes to its senses and in a budget cutting exorcise trims away the wasteful fat which we call the DEA.

Well I can only say that if Hadopi falls that other countries will be having a good look the viability of their own 3 to 6 strike schemes. Just maybe the operational failures of these schemes in France and New Zealand will give them the needed excuse to pull the plug.

Anyway good words from Minister Aurelie Filipetti when if they want Hadopi then so should they pay for it.
http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

Bottom line is that these companies don’t want to encourage ‘legal services’ because they know that for most customers, DRM = dealbreaker and they won’t buy from legal services with that included.

Since DRM is a dealbreaker and they cannot control everything that you do with the stuff you buy? They whine and whinge and wail about ‘piracy is killing us’, when it’s their own unwillingness to give up their iron-fisted control that is killing them.
- Andrew me
  
  If all of the money that was spent worldwide fighting piracy had been used to design and build a site that gave music away freely but also provided donate links for every artist hundreds of millions would have been made. All that these laws are doing is scareing some of those that are not really technically minded to stop sharing for a while, but eventually they just continue again.
  
  The musicians are the ones losing in the fight against piracy, they are the ones who people are blaming for all the action of the organizations they fund with part of there profits from sales of there content.
  
  The musicians need to band together and demand that the organizations fighting privacy come up with a business plan to resolve the perceived problem, not alienate there fans.
  - Scary_Devil_Monastery
    
    “If all of the money that was spent worldwide fighting piracy had been used to design and build a site…”
    
    It will never happen. The companies involved are extremely jealous of their monopolies. The second such an attempt is made the project instantly falls to bits and pieces when EMI, SONY and Warner try to take a 90% cut each.
    That spotify succeeded until launch was a minor miracle. Even so, the terms a spotify-signed artist with a label endures make even the normal “indentured serfdom”-contracts look generous.
TiggFooo

I dunno man, sometimes you jsut have to roll with it!

Anon-Do.tk
Pingback: French Government Cuts Funding To 'Three-Strikes' Regime, Hints At Ending Programme - Digital Video Forums
4kinel

budget cuts=new government.
France law deems that it be necessary that each person involved can win a case when brought before the courts. so, if the entertainment industry win against a file sharer, the file sharer can also win in the same case. this means, the government pick up the tab for the entertainment industry with or without a win. it was a no brainer when they implemented it, and its a no brainer now. win fee win fee, unlike america where the government can just printy printy and keep prosecuting till the dollars worth the same as toilet roll, but not as effective.
foff

Ha fucking Ha Ha. So out of all the millions of filesharers in france only 340 have a 3 strikes letter. So it only cost them about 20 million to find that out apparently almost no one is file sharing in france. It just goes to show how utterly fucking stupid these programs are. I wonder how much the frenchies have spent on vpn’s. Finally the government has see what a total total fucking waste this program is.
- MadAsASnake
  
  … and what do you think would happen if they really caught 10′s of thousands of people? Dust off the guillotines folks…
Pingback: Three Strikes Anti-Piracy Budget “Too Expensive To Justify” Says Minister | Zombie Torrents - Ultimate Torrents Downloads
qitian

tinyurl.com/cyk9xz2
haida732

tinyurl.com/ck9xz2
Pingback: Online Piracy: Challenging the ‘three strikes’ approach | Cyber Crimes Unit
http://www.candida-albicans.co.uk/ Yolande

As the final insult, Filipetti said that Internet disconnections are a disproportionate way to deal with infringement.
Pingback: Efficiency Tests Delay U.S. “Six Strikes” Anti-Piracy Scheme – August 09, 2012 at 05:30PM | Lifestream

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