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U.S. Government Wins Appeal in Kim Dotcom Extradition Battle

Kim Dotcom and his associates have lost a key battle in their extradition fight against the United States. On two earlier occasions, including once in the High Court, Dotcom’s legal team successfully argued they were entitled to examine mountains of evidence held by U.S. authorities. But those rulings were overturned this morning when the Court of Appeal said that the U.S. would be allowed to present a summary case after all. Dotcom says he’ll take an appeal to the Supreme Court.

After Kim Dotcom and his associates were arrested in New Zealand in January 2012 it became clear that the United States government would seek their extradition on copyright, racketeering, money laundering and other charges.

To fight the allegations and indeed extradition to the U.S. effectively, Dotcom’s legal team argued that they would need full access to all of the evidence held by the United States. But early on the U.S. government said that no right to such disclosure exists.

In May 2012, however, the Dotcom defense received a boost when Judge Harvey in the North Shore District Court disagreed with the prosecution and ordered disclosure of all documents relating to the alleged crimes of the so-called Mega Conspiracy.

After Judge Harvey made some controversial comments that effectively cost him his job, U.S. authorities were back again, this time seeking a judicial review of the judge’s ruling. The outcome was another win for Dotcom.

In the High Court in August 2012, Justice Helen Winkelmann dismissed the application for a judicial review and upheld the earlier decision handed down in the North Shore District Court. Kim Dotcom and his co-accused – Mathias Ortmann, Finn Batato and Bram van der Kolk – were to be given access to the documents in order to mount a full and proper defense.

But refusing to give in the U.S. hit back again, launching an appeal against the ruling in the hope of a different outcome. Today a New Zealand appeals court handed down its ruling and it represents a huge setback for Dotcom and friends.

Overturning Justice Winkelmann’s ruling on disclosure, the Court of Appeal said that an extradition hearing is not a trial in which innocence or guilty is determined, therefore the procedures appropriate in a such a trial were not applicable in this case. Since extradition treaties effectively amount to understandings between governments to ensure those suspected of crimes are brought to account, all the U.S. has to do is prove to the court that Dotcom and his associates have a prima facie case to answer.

As per the High Court’s disclosure ruling Dotcom’s legal team had hoped to obtain masses of information from the FBI including records relating to the covert operations carried out, those that detail the evidence and complaints put forward to authorities by copyright holders, plus records that show communications between copyright holders and Megaupload including discussions and agreements on take-down notices.

But following today’s ruling the U.S. government will be allowed to submit its case for extradition in summary format, not the high level of detail demanded by Dotcom’s legal team.

This morning Kim Dotcom said that the show is not over yet and will now go to the highest court in the land.

“NZ Court rulings on discovery: 2 (yes) vs 1 (no),” he wrote. “The fight goes on. Next is the Supreme Court of New Zealand.”

If the Supreme Court accepts the case and Dotcom wins, the evidence disclosed would be hugely helpful in his ongoing legal battles. However, even in defeat the possibility remains that an extradition judge could demand to see more evidence from the United States. If that information was not forthcoming the judge could refuse to extradite.

The extradition hearing is expected to go ahead in August this year but that date could be further delayed if the Supreme Court takes up the case.

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  • Guest

    Fuck the hell off, America.

    • ohnoes

      The fatty is so fucked :(

      • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

        Not Yet …….

        • dondilly

          As ive pointed out in a longer post, what is really the issue is the question of kdc receiving a fair trial bearing in mind the DOJ/FBI. illegal conduct and the not insignificant fact that the US is essentially in contempt of court for not returning illegally obtained evidence and illegally removing it from NZ. There is also the problem that even if returned, as it is computer data, there is no guarrentee bearing in mind the contempt of court that such illegally obtained data not be used in a US trial. In the extradition case it is the NZ standard for a fair trial applies. The rulings on disclosure by the district and upheld by the high court were made with full knowledge of the existence of the illegally obtained evidence and failure to comply with the order to return it, it is not unreasonable to ensure the DOJ has a case WITHOUT the inadmissable evidence.

        • Andrew me

          I am just astounded that they can bring a case and have someone extradited from their country with no proof of wrongdoing, this is so wrong it is actually unbelievable. So Australia could have charges against someone for a crime they have made up and would not have to produce that evidence to the US. The US would just have to trust the Australian prosecutor. Now i know that this is a big case for the DOJ for the amount of publicity it has received but honestly they sound like they have no evidence at all apart from a few emails. And that does not point to all the charges they have. Also what if the evidence was gathered illegally, surely it would be thrown out of a court. I am just confused, is the court system looking for the truth or just a method to punish people the government does not like, or their friends in hollywood that bribe them do not like .

        • bobmail

          ” So Australia could have charges against someone for a crime they have made up and would not have to produce that evidence to the US. ”

          Incorrect. The charges have been laid in the US, and have met the threshold for indictment. There is no mystery crime here, Fat Kim has been charged in good faith in front of the court, to a similar level that would lead to your arrest if you lived in the US.

          Extradition isn’t a finding of guilt, it’s only a finding that a valid outstanding charge exists, nothing more.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Except there is NO VALID outstanding charges for KimDotCom to be even arrested for

        • Guest

          Even though there is an indictment of the charges made the indictment has yet to be served and has been stated by the US DOJ that the indictment cannot be served and that they will only be able to serve Dotcom when he sets foot on US soil.

          It has also been proved by the NZ court that the raid, search and seizure of property on Dotcoms home was illegal and the sending of the evidence obtained from that illegal raid, search and seizure to the US was also illegal. The NZ court has ruled that this evidence must be returned back and so far the US has refused to comply. If the US refuses to comply with the NZ court ruling hen they can be held in contempt of court for refusing and if this happens then the NZ court are well within there rights to refuse extradition on the grounds that the US is in contempt for refusing to comply with the NZ ruling. If the US cannot comply with the NZ court ruling in returning illegal obtained evidence then this will show that Dotcom will not get a fair trial.

          If the extradition is refused then the US cannot blame Dotcom when they themselves refuse to comply with the NZ courts.

        • Andrew Lee

          Bullshit MegaUpload removed pirated content a hell of a lot faster than most sites and they even gave Hollywood their own admin accounts to remove infringing content. “Which was abused more than once.”

        • The_Strawbear

          And your defence for the money laundering charges is . . . ?

        • MadAsASnake

          And the evidence of money laundering is … ?

        • bobmail

          Actually, that appears to be bullshit. Mega would keep a full copy, and only disable links to that copy as reported. That is a big part of the issue, it shows clear knowledge of infringement.

        • Arkzad

          I don’t think thats the problem. The true problem is that he added artificial removal limit per day. Thats the reason youtube has its filters, because they couldn’t sustain the amount of delete request – they are not a “null device” that just produces senseless heat.

          The same problem hit former famous sharehosters and now they added so much annoyances that the underground doesn’t use them much anymore.

          Me.ga itself is a strange beast with all that fancy new html5 browser trickery. Its fast, no question asked, but it feels like something different. Won’t use it.

        • MUUser2006

          This is the issue and I know it’s true. I remember “uploading” a “backup” of a certain x264 movie release to my MU account. My internet takes about 45min to upload a 700mb video file, but instead it literally finished under a second. All it did was find the same file and copy it to my account.

        • bobmail

          Yes, and what it means is that even if you “backup file” happened to get DMCA’ed out of existance in theory, in reality the file was still on the server, perhaps being pointed to by other people who happen to have re-uploaded it before.

          It causes some pretty big issues. Once they know that a file is copyright, they should be removing the content, not just making a single link not work. It goes to the heart of knowing what is infringing but allowing it anyway – and most importantly, profiting from it.

        • MadAsASnake

          Bobmail, pretty much every document / file / move is subject to copyright. As to whether there is a breach of copyright is totally irrelevant to whether it exists on a server or not. TBP-AFK is under copyright, it appears on many servers and is linked to many torrents. Too the best of my knowledge, none of this breaches copyright. If some-on. The files are not in breach, it is the usage that is. So killing infringing links is right. Killing infringing files is utter nonsense because infringing files do not exist.

        • myspace

          “”Actually, that appears to be bullshit. Mega would keep a full copy, and
          only disable links to that copy as reported. That is a big part of the
          issue, it shows clear knowledge of infringement.”"

          Actually that is BS bob. It does not show clear knowledge of infringement. Megaupload did “delete” links as per instructed by the DMCA notices and although only one copy of a file was kept due to deduplicity (however its spelt).

          I could backup a CD/DVD for my own personal use and store it on Megaupload and it is perfectly legal to make a backup copy of a CD/DVD that I own. I will be given a link to the file and it is my responsibility not to share that link. Now other people would back up their own CD/DVD for personal use and be given the same link due to deduplicity and it would be their responsibility if they kept the link or shared it. Now if someone did a back up of their CD/DVD that they bought and then shared that link and it got a DMCA notice then it would be totally right to delete just the link that was being shared to the file. With only having one file due to deduplicity (and its not against the law for a company to use deduplicity to save on space) then there is no way whatsoever for the company or anyone for that matter that can see or tell if that file is just a backup from someone who is not sharing that file or from someone who is committing copyright infringement with sharing it with their friends.

          I guess you would be very pleased to see 10 people loose their perfectly legal backups to have this one file deleted that is being shared by 1 person.

        • MadAsASnake

          You need to read up on the idea of “Prima Facie Case”. The indictment is not that nor is it proof of it. DOJ have presented no evidence at all regarding the laundering and conspiracy charges, as these depend entirely on the core charge, for which he cannot be extradited. The NZ courts have already seen this. Now, the core charges were only “unsealed” (that’s right, if DOJ had it’s way, KDC would still have seen not one scrap of the charge). So while you are right in that it is not for the extradition hearing to hear the case, it is for the extradition hearing to test that there is in fact a Prima Facie Case, and that the case is extraditable. What the DOJ win here (assuming the supremes don’t reverse it again) is simply that they don’t have to provide everything. They still have to provide sufficient to convince the NZ courts that there is a case to answer, they have not as yet done that, nor to they appear to be willing to do so. As others have notes, the games that have been played here would make a judge want to see more. I would expect them to ask on what justification a major military raid was mounted, and the NZ Police clearly knew there was no threat and that he would co-operate.

        • Guest

          I do feel that the charges that the US state for extradition is just minimal and made by them enough to warrant extradition just to get Dotcom extradited and once extradited they will throw him in jail and trump up and rack up more charges (like the DOJ did with Aaron Schwartz) to get even more charges etc. to make it look like that he will serve at least 100 years in prison if found guilty. The DOJ will then try and force a plea bargain with Dotcom to get him to serve say x months/years in prison if he pleads guilty to x amount of charges and then the DOJ will then use that guilty verdict as a precedent to go after and shutdown other file lockers on the internet just to further please there Hollywood masters.

          I also feel that the US thought that NZ would just hand over Dotcom without any issues when they made the extradition request and that the US did not think that questions and investigations would be given as to legality of the raid, search, and seizures etc.

          If the US had such a case against Dotcom they why are they refusing to comply with the NZ court ruling of handing over that evidence that is requested. By appealing the courts decision seems to me that they either don’t have the evidence that they state they have or they need the time to sift through all the evidence that they illegally obtained in the illegal raid on Dotcoms home to get the evidence to justify extradition.

          Even though the appeal court ruled in favour of the US (which still can be overturned again by the Supreme Court in favour of Dotcom) I do not believe that the US will be granted extradition when the extradition hearing comes to play as the illegal actions etc. proved so far by the NZ court is not going to favour the US considering that the US has so far refused to comply with the court ruling of giving back the evidence that was illegally sent to them from the illegal raid. If the US refuses to comply with the NZ court ruling in giving back the evidence that was illegally obtained then it sure looks as though Dotcom will not be given a fair trial in the US when the US can’t comply and respect the legal system of another country.

        • ITakeAPotatoChipAndEatIt

          “good faith”

          Those must be your 2 favorite words, huh.

        • dondilly

          The latest ruling was a win/win for kdc whichever way the ruling went.
          The judge seemingly misdirecting himself, save for proving the planted and misrepresented evidence underpinning he original indictment, the full disclosure was always for his us defence. With the rulings of illegal arrest, search and seizure and removal of evidence from nz, the planted evidence and fbi agents perjury to obtain the indictment underpinning this fiasco should come as no surprize to he nz courts.

          Even the doj fighting all the way to the nz supreme court to deny kdc his right to full disclosure raises doubts of a fair trial in the US.

        • MadAsASnake

          I doubt they have a case even with the inadmissable evidence.

        • PenzancePeer

          It seems Obvious at this stage that the US DOJ is playing a Losing wicket with the MU case, That being the case it is not unreasonable to expect that US Judges will play along in order to ‘Extend and Pretend’ to a point in the future when the whole thing will be of little relevance. It would be reasonable to assume that the Real fallout from the affair will be felt in the Halls of Power of NZ, and should prove another valuable lesson to Governments around the world that lying down with the US, is liable to leave one with Fleas

        • bobmail

          “It seems Obvious at this stage that the US DOJ is playing a Losing wicket with the MU case, ”

          Not that obvious at all. So far, the important rulings are going the US’s way, the site is still down, Kim still can’t get to most of his ill gotten money, and it appears more likely following this most recent ruling in NZ that Kim will end up on a plane to the US at some point in the future to face up for his crimes.

          In NZ, I suspect that the biggest fall out will be that the politicians that let Kim essentially bribe his way into resident status will get their asses kicked, and most of the rest of the country will yell “good riddence” as the convicted criminal is sent packing by their courts.

        • Already Decided?

          Thats a lot of guilt thats unproven you’re throwing around there. Biased much?

        • bobmail

          Nope, not tossing around guilt, just stating the obvious. The way Mega stored things was pretty much common knowledge (Kim had spoken about it before, and the “no upload required” uploads showed it in action). That is one of the interesting parts of the process, and key to showing that even after a file is DMCA’ed that the original or shared copy remained on the servers, accessible through other URLs (and still could be re-uoloaded without actually uploading).

          Beyond that, paying a commission for people who pay to access the files is a problem, generally a system that most file locker sites have moved away from.

          The structure of the companies (specifically to move the money away from the file locker to other companies outside of the countries involved) is another interesting issue. There would be no real reason for Kim to do this (to transfer money from himself to himself) unless the intention way to move the money away from the most “at risk” asset, the file host.

          Based on what I can see, I think that Kim thought he could get away with moving the money, wait for the proverbial knock on the Mega door, close the thing out, and keep the 150 million or so that was made, assuring his lavish lifestyle. I don’t think he expected anyone to go beyond basic copyright cases, and now it has happened, he realizes he is pretty far up shit’s creek. Money laundering is a big deal charge, something that if found guilty can run you a decade or more in the pokey. I don’t think he ever considered he would face anything beyond monetary issues, and that the near empty shell of Mega would be the price of getting out a rich man.

        • Franklin

          “”The structure of the companies (specifically to move the money away from
          the file locker to other companies outside of the countries involved)
          is another interesting issue”"

          Banks and other companies move money around from one of their companies to another one of their companies within the confines of their whole organisation and to other countries and they do for various reasons. One reason is to pay less tax. Just look at the foreign companies in the UK who are based in another country who pay less tax in the UK then they do in another country and I sure bet that they move money from one company to another one of their companies to do so and they are not even breaking the law. Dotcom could well be doing the same in moving money from one company to another one of his companies just to pay less tax. If its not against the law to do so then Dotcom hasn’t broken the law to transfer money from one company to another. It may be unethical to do so but its not against the law.

        • Meekin

          “”Nope, not tossing around guilt”"

          Has Dotcom been found guilty in a court case trial. No he hasn’t been found guilty until a jury in a court case trial gives the verdict of guilty until then Dotcom is innocent and there is certainly no guilt when the person is innocent. So tossing around guilt when the person has not been found guilty in a court trial is just pure baseless unfounded speculation that is not evidence at all.

        • MadAsASnake

          All of them EXCEPT this one have gone to KDC idiot.

    • fuckusa

      Why America? Dont drag other countries…

      Unless you wanna contribut to the misappropiation, then say: FUCK THE HELL OFF, USA.

      • Guest321

        I suppose its taken for granted when someone says America, they mean USA and not Canada or Brazil even though they are part of the American continent.

        • Somebody_Else

          ContinentS. Both USA & Canada are on the North American Continent, while Brazil is on the South American Continent.

        • Alex22

          According to The European Division of Continents as opposed to U.S Division, North America and South America belong to the same continent: America

        • l. g.

          America is the U.S. “The Americas” or “Americas” is North, South and Central America.

        • shameless troll

          But europe and asia are seperate right?

        • Tren

          Yeah, that’s your US standards,
          the rest of the world learns
          there is an American continent,
          (except for those who are influenced
          by watching Hollywood movies).

          You just have decided to call it North America
          to create your supposed different planet.

        • asdfghjkl

          I believe it narrows down enough in Panama to be considered 2 seperate continents. Otherwise I suppose we really have only four continents: America, Antarctica, Australia, and Eurasiafrica.

        • Dotcom, Kim

          The beautiful US of A. The only country that allows ones dreams to come true. The only country that truly honors and respects human dignity and freedom to express
          ones opinion. The land of hope & glory. Amen.

          My fucking mega-fat arse does it. Bullshit to that.

          Here’s a one-fingered salute you assholes. Spin on it, you bastards.

      • Violated0

        That would only be a problem if say Canada renamed themselves to something like the Canadian Provinces of America.

        It does not help to confuse country names with continent names.

        • dondilly

          Well it used to be and after US indepence from Britain was known as British North America

        • spliff666

          Australia doesn’t have this problem. Stop sharing your continent with other people

    • isawsasquatch

      It was a New Zealand court that handed down the ruling, dumbass.

      • Anonymous

        He ain’t dumb, it was America that twisted NZ arms into doing this.

        • isawsasquatch

          Hahaha. Poor NZ.

          Whatever.

    • http://www.facebook.com/forkingham.melle Forkingham Melle

      it is moving away from Europe at the rate of 1 mile every hundred thousand years, apparently, just saying,

      • Guest

        It still ain’t quick enough to my liking.

        Can we please get life started on Mars so we can send the entire USA or at the very least, the US government there?

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Government ain’t the problem. It’s the corporations and their lobbyist flunkies that are the problem.

    • PiRat

      He might just be able to eat his way out of it, get so fat they can’t move him xD

  • Pingback: U.S. Government Wins Appeal in Kim Dotcom Extradition Battle | Best Seedbox

  • Bobmail

    “the Court of Appeal said that an extradition hearing is not a trial in which innocence or guilty is determined, therefore the procedures appropriate in a such a trial were not applicable in this case”

    Winner. Finally a judge that understands that the case isn’t being tried in New Zealand. Sorry Fat Kim, your time is up.

    • Gene Poole

      wow,, what an amazing surprise, bobmail! surprising to see you show up exactly one day after I pointed out the blatant monicker change between yourself and nomnomnom, and the correlation therein. I pointed out that you should try harder to conceal the fact that you’re the same person with two personas, and here you are!

      well you certainly showed me. Now I don’t know what to think!

      /sarcasm

      • downunder

        hes sort of right though… NZ is fooked to get usa to do the right thing even if they ruled the other way. and if they said fbi hand it over usa would stick finger to nz and prob send in the naval seals and kidnap him and stick in in jail for water torture :)and on top fook over trade agreement cos they can cos they almighty usa who think they control the world

        • Gene Poole

          Yeah…behind every “request” from the US is a thinly veiled threat that they’ll embargo the shit out of you and drop you on the Special K 301 (or whatever the fuck) report they have.

          That doesn’t change the fact that the reason for extradition should be more than “because we said so”, though. It’s not enough to claim he’s breaking your laws, it should also be that his activity is frowned upon in your country as well…or at least it can be demonstrably proven beforehand that he was deliberately acting with malice towards their country, like in the case of Gary McKinnon.

          with KDC it’s a matter of 1) set up business worldwide, 2) comply with takedown requests from other countries, despite not residing in said country, as a gesture of goodwill and business ethics, 3) get arrested and threatened with indefinite detention in Gitmo, extrajudicial assassination because your business was too competitive with american interests. By this logic I’m surprised Peter Sunde wasn’t threatened with extradition.

        • bobmail

          Umm, KDC didn’t get threatened with being detailed in Gitmo. Where the fuck do you get that from?

          As for the name, it’s only because Disgust chat seems to lose user names from time to time, and takes a while to unlock them. I could post a different name every time, because it’s about the discussion and not who is posting, you know that!

        • Gene Poole

          KDC didn’t get threatened with being detailed in Gitmo. Where the fuck do you get that from?

          Logical reduction. hyperbole, a little bit, but not that much.

          I would be terrified to be extradited to the United States under their current regime. Their president has all the power of a reigning king, and none of the culpability of an elected president.

          Their NDAA for 2012 and beyond allows for extrajudicial killing of anyone that the president doesn’t like, and indefinite detention for anyone they feel should be denied a court date. Habeus corpus no longer exists in the United States.

          What these two things in conjunction amount to is that anyone who runs afoul of the US has good reason to fear extradition, as they can essentially disappear into the machine and never come out again.

          It’s no wonder Assange prefers a small room in an embassy to facing his persecutors in Sweden, when they refuse to promise not to extradite him to the US.

        • bobmail

          “I would be terrified to be extradited to the United States under their current regime.”

          Yeah, especially if you committed financial crimes and screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money.

          “Habeus corpus no longer exists in the United States.”

          Sure it does. But so does the theory of having all parties in court, not having a big fat one hiding in another country acting untouchable and thumbing his nose at the law of a country he was doing business in.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          “Yeah, especially if you committed financial crimes and screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money.”

          What money? Show me exactly how much in real hard cash, i.e. the loss in revenue, did the copyright holders lose to copyright infringement and I’ll show you idiots who can’t adapt to 21st century markets.

          “Sure it does. But so does the theory of having all parties in court, not having a big fat one hiding in another country acting untouchable and thumbing his nose at the law of a country he was doing business in.”

          As far as we can tell, he wasn’t doing business in the US of A. He had a business that was headquartered in Hong Kong, servers in New Zealand, and had USA CUSTOMERS. You mean to say doing business with an USA citizen automatically qualifies as doing business in the USA?? No wonder Americans think they own the world.

        • bobmail

          “What money? Show me exactly how much in real hard cash, i.e. the loss in revenue, did the copyright holders lose to copyright infringement and I’ll show you idiots who can’t adapt to 21st century markets.”

          Forget that for a second. You have the question of moving money from company to company, from country to country, in an attempt to limit liability, avoid paying taxes, and such. If Kim though everything he was doing was legal, he would have kept the money in the company and celebrated it being big. Instead, he works hard to hide his ill gotten gains.

          Remember, even without a single penny of loss for the rights holders, there is still the question of selling access to the work without a license, aka distribution. Even if they lost nothing (ie, no retail sales lost) they still lost the 150 million of business that Kim obtained on their backs.

          When you do business in a country, your business transaction is subject to the laws of that country. That’s a pretty basic thing.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          LOLZ…. Every time I start to believe you’ve hit rock bottom, you take out a shitshovel and dig even deeper.

          “Even if they lost nothing (ie, no retail sales lost) they still lost the 150 million of business that Kim obtained on their backs.”

          In that case, Ford has every right to sue every carmaker in existence for the manufacturing, sale and distribution of automobiles. The Wright family is owned trillions in royalties by way of patents for the invention of the flying machine. Apple has the case to sue Microsoft, Nokia, Samsung, and HTC over a rectangular black plastic box with a glass screen and camera… Oh, wait…

        • bobmail

          “In that case, Ford has every right to sue every carmaker in existence for the manufacturing, sale and distribution of automobiles”

          no, and you have just proven once again you are a trolling idiot. You can stop now.

        • Guest

          And you Bob have proven once again that you are a trolling idiot with your reply. You too can stop now.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Why? Because by your twisted, inane logic, anyone who can create a similar product more efficiently and provides a far better service than the original producer is wrong and should be penalized financially and given a jail sentence longer than the maximum jail sentence for first degree homicide.

          People living in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks at others, my dear idiotic troll.

        • Guest

          “” Even if they lost nothing (ie, no retail sales lost) they still lost the 150 million of business that Kim obtained on their backs.”"

          And where is the actual proof that they lost 150 million dollars??? The only way that they could loose 150 million dollars if they had 150 million dollars in their own bank account in the first place. You can’t loose something if you never had it in the first place.

        • zarathustra2k1
        • Anyone

          “Even if they lost nothing (ie, no retail sales lost) they still lost the 150 million of business that Kim obtained on their backs.”

          so you are saying that Burgerking can sue McDonalds because every dollar spent on McDonalds Burger is “lost” to Burgerking

          flawless logic

        • commenter8

          You mean KDC did the exact same thing that Apple and other huge multinationals do in even more spectacularly offensive and disgusting ways all the time?

          http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-28/tech/31440320_1_tax-rate-tax-line-tax-credits

          C’mon, Bobmail, let’s see you explicitly advocate the imprisonment of all the CEOs and CFOs of big corporations…

        • bobmail

          No, because Apple and other huge multinationals aren’t selling someone else’s products without a license, which is what Fat Kim was doing. Moving the money around to try to make it “clean” (aka money laundering) is the bigger issue.

          As for the 150 million, remember: We aren’t talking about “lost sales” here. We are talking about the income generated by Mega for selling access to this material. Kim didn’t have the right to sell access, didn’t have a license for distribution. This isn’t a civil case, it’s a criminal case. No “proof of loss” required here, just show that the goods were unlicensed, and that selling access to them is piracy, plain and simple.

        • Anon

          “No, because Apple and other huge multinationals aren’t selling someone
          else’s products without a license, which is what Fat Kim was doing”

          No Dotcom was not selling someone else’s products without a licence.

        • Colin Carr

          Yeah, especially if you committed financial crimes and screwed a lot of people out of a lot of money.

          You mean like all those Wall St banksters, not one of whom has been arrested for destroying the livelihoods of millions of ordinary people worldwide to feed their insatiable greed?

        • MadAsASnake

          Oh – what law was KDC thumbing his nose at?

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          While I usually agree with these points, Gene, that’s a load of bullcrap. The NDAA specifically CANNOT by executive order and the way the law is written be used against American citizens.

          People keep on trying to BS that it can be, but the truth is that it has been so limited by various means (other laws, executive orders) that it cannot.

        • Its in the phrasing

          Thats the problem though, if you’re extradited you’re not a US citizen and therefore can “disappear”

        • Gene Poole

          http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/22/obama-brennan-paul-assassinations-filibuster

          the administration – including the president himself and his nominee to lead the CIA, John Brennan – has been repeatedly asked…whether the president has the right to execute US citizens on US soil without charges. In each instance, they have refused to answer.

          Now I understand that KDC isn’t an American citizen, but what needs to be kept in mind is that the above question is asked as a worst case scenario. The US administration asserts – with no apologies, I might add – that they have the right, and the authority, to target foreign nationals for due-process-free assassinations, anywhere in the world. And that includes the United States. It’s just easier to manager if they control the territory.

          Now maybe you were referring instead to the indefinite detention article.

          The indefinite detention article is an existing part of the 2012 NDAA which (as far as I know, correct me if I’m wrong) still stands. Additionally, the PATRIOT ACT also has a clause for indefinite detention for foreign and domestic citizens. In 2011, the senate had an amendment for the NFAA that would have forbidden indefinite detention of US citizens, which was soundly rejected. This removes the concept of habeus corpus, or effectively renders it moot. Now in May, Noam Chomsky and others won a lawsuit against the US Government for the NDAA, claiming that it violated the first and fifth amendments. Immediately afterwards, the US Gov filed a preliminary injunction, which is roundly believed to have occurred because, had there not been an injunction filed, the government would be breaking the law, having already exercised this ability at least one time.

          That’s what I know about Indefinite detention in the US, its current state, and extrajudicial assassinations…please clarify where I’m confused, or where I’m in error. I’m happy to reassess, but AFAIK none of this is incorrect.

    • Digital

      bobmail, I have been reading torrentfreak for a very long time… And while the site itself is generally pro share and rarely pro anything else, all of your comments are negative and don’t actually seem to contribute to conversation. What is your stance on the bit torrent protocol in general? How do you feel about unsigned artists and indie developers going it their own without a record label or backing group? Do you believe that anyone fighting anything in court is wrong? If you would clear these questions up I would really appreciate the chance to learn how you interpret this system.

      Thank you

      • bobmail

        (preface: Mega wasn’t about torrents… but I digress)

        Protocols are neutral, they are neither this nor that (in the same manner that a gun is death neutral). However, just like guns, if most of the actual use seems to be negative, perhaps we are better off without proliferation.

        As a file transfer protocol, it’s not really efficient, and loads networks in ways they were not designed. As an archive, it’s horrible, as it depends on millions of people, and fails dramatically.

        Mostly, it seems to be a good way for companies (such as WoW-crack) to avoid the costs of distributing their commercial software updates.

        As for unsigned artists and developers, they have nothing to fight in court. If they want to use tool A, B, or C, that is up to them. However, if those tools depend on pirated goods to attract people to use them, then those artists are just making their names on the backs of others, and that really isn’t any good.

        I would love to see indie artists, film makers, whatever make great products, gain the public’s interest, and wipe out the hollywood system with a better, more desirable product. The sad reality is that isn’t what is happening, for all the talk about new artists and such, few if any rise up to a level that reaches national or international stature. It’s all about the product in the end, and that generally is where the indies are lacking.

        You only need to look at social and portable gaming and such to understand how a better product can do well. It doesn’t matter how much the big companies try, in the end it’s the smaller indie developers with the great ideas (aka, great product) that rise to the top. Great product always wins.

        As for fighting in court, you are never wrong to fight if you didn’t break the law. However, in Kim’s case, what is alleged is pretty nasty, it’s not just violating copyright (which you may or may not care about) but it’s also using various front companies to launder the income from this venture. His structure and actions speak a lot about intent (as does his past criminal record in the financial area).

        I take free speech claims much more seriously from someone who doesn’t have a great financial interest in them, I prefer people who have actual free speech as their first issue – and that is rare in the world of piracy.

        • Quest

          So, someone’s free speech is more equal than someone else’s free speech?

        • bobmail

          why would you say that?

        • platyourpus

          Been on holiday bob,about time you came home to TF, poor nonamethanks is running out of things to say.
          OK carry on trolling.

        • Anyone

          the right to free speech is about speech you disagree with

        • bobmail

          No, I agree with free speech, however, it is not a bizarre absolute or thing without restriction, because we live and co-exist with others, and their rights to free speech, and other rights granted by (in the US) the constitution and the laws passed at each level of government.

          The right to free speech does not free you from the potential of being sued for libel or slander. It does not protect you from being charged with fraud (being a shyster), or other.

          I don’t think that free speech includes the right to pirate other people’s work, except in very specific circumstances and situations.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Pray tell, define very specific circumstances and situations. Because if you mean like how the Canadian MPAA ripped off their artist members for 30 years and how the Icelandic MAFIAA didn’t even bother to pay the rightsholder to their recognition software, I say, bobmail, you are a cheat, a liar and yellow-bellied rat.

        • bobmail

          ” I say, bobmail, you are a cheat, a liar and yellow-bellied rat.”

          and I say,BuddhaFacePalmed, that you are just being a trolling idiot. You can stop now.

        • Guest

          And your response Bob shows that you are just being a trolling idiot. Grow up and act your age Bob.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Butthurt much? Because you can’t even deny that MAFIAA steals from the very people they claim they’re protect?

        • bobmail

          No butthurt… that appears to be your issue. I think you are playing at trying to push up every issue you think is a hot button or a slam, while avoiding dealing with the issues at hand.

          I say “the sky is blue, with various shades”

          you say: “So what, the MAFIAA STEALS!”.

          It’s pretty hard to have a discussion with someone like you, who’s response system is sort of infantile. Why not address the points and issues at hand, rather than just being a troll? I know you think you are being clever, but really it just shows that you have no well thought out answers for valid and reasonable points. That sort of shows that you have lost the discussion (and the plot) a long time ago.

        • Anon

          “”It’s pretty hard to have a discussion with someone like you, who’s response system is sort of infantile.”"

          And the same goes for you with acting as a troll in demeaning, being rude and insulting in comments to people.

        • bobmail

          I only insult people who troll and insult me. Buddha as an example is being a troll, trying to drag the discussion into unrelated areas to try to score the usual anti-copyright points. I think he is being a kid, not addressing issues and instead playing trolling games.

          I call them as I see them, and I think he’s a troll who has long since lost the plot.

        • Anon

          It is you that is showing yourself out to be a troll with the comments that you make yourself by your replies to others even if you regard them to be trolls yourself. Being insulting to people in reply only shows you to be the same of those people even if they insult.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          “Why not address the points and issues at hand, rather than just being a troll? I know you think you are being clever, but really it just shows that you have no well thought out answers for valid and reasonable points.”

          MAFIAA point: Pirates are stealing all our monies by sharing our products.
          Pirate point : Provide a better and more efficient service than the one doing it for free. Idiot.
          MAFIAA refutes: But then that would mean we can’t make as much monies as we do right now, so might as well complain using a megaphone.

          Pirate point: We need to revise copyright and patent laws because criminalizing a civil case and giving it penalties higher than any other criminal case is insanity
          MAFIAA refutes: You can’t… Because we need to make an example out of people. And piracy steals all our monies. AND IT’S THE LAW.

          And to answer your question, every time anyone at all gives off a valid answer to the points raised by pro-copyright, you refute by saying, ‘It’s immature.’ ‘It’s against copyright law.’ ‘You don’t live in reality.’ ‘you’re obviously a full-time student.’ ‘It won’t make money as according to my past business experience of 30 years.’ So, why bother? At least in my troll posts, i still address the issues by giving out solutions instead of shooting everyone else’s points. Can you say the same?

          TL;DR
          bobmail: “the sky is blue, with various shades”
          Yours truly: “The atmosphere absorbs the multiple colors on the light spectrum except certain colors and reflects it into the retina where the brain perceives and interprets as the color, blue.”
          bobmail: “Uhhh, yoosa hurting my brain with facts. Sky is blue because god made it that way. And yoosa nerd.”

        • MadAsASnake

          I don’t think any of this gives commercial corps any rights whatsoever to violate my privacy or censor the Internet.

        • bobmail

          nor does it give you any rights to distribute their works without permission.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          So, that means I have to ask Starz whenever I want to discuss Spartacus with my colleagues and friends? Because that is technically distributing the work of Starz, albeit in a different format.

          Also, here’s a potato.

        • MadAsASnake

          And who ever suggested I was doing that?

    • deepersir

      you are just a crook.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      If a New Zealand prosecutor wanted an American Citizen extradited to New Zealand, would he receive the same “send the accused over” reception that you’re advocating?

      • bobmail

        Actually, NZ would get exactly that. Show you have a case (meeting pretty much the standard for indictment) and away you go. The US extradites people regularly to other countries, no surprise here.

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          Only when those people have physically set foot in other countries at one time. Thanks, you lost the game.

    • IDIOCRACY

      Hey… you here again Bobby, saw you yesterday under another name, making an @ss out of yourself, and guess what, you do it now again hehe, you mention that there is finally a judge that understands the case bla bla…. but the case for extradition what this was about, is in fact not tried in US but in New Zealand you moron…..oh you did not read that, guess your eyes are getting bad too. But please go on making yourself look like an idiot, however try better because I kept it dry this time…hehe

      • bobmail

        Hey moron, learn what extradition is – the US does not have to prove Kim guilty in NZ.

        try to learn something before you get all angry and uppity.

        • ello

          No the US does not have to prove Dotcom guilty in NZ the US has to prove that extradition is warranted and so far they have not even proved that.

        • IDIOCRACY

          I did not say that…. I did not say anything about proving guilt. I just pointed out for your brainless benefit that the case is about the extradition and not about if he is guilty or not….so other rules apply… Kim just reasons that by law he has th right to see the evidence against him on what the extradition is based, this means the evidence gathered during the illegal raid..THAT… but you knew that already,… you just don’t want to admit you were wrong.

          hehe

    • MadAsASnake

      OK, so it’ll be the extradition hearing that denies the extradition.

  • Stugz

    Well done, soon we got another Bradley Manning and USA become one big Auschwitz camp, cool. I wanna move in America and make it poor!

    • F-1

      It wouldn’t be the first time USA would create
      a concentration camp in their own country.

      • myconos

        Concentration camps in general are more common than people believe. Andersonville prison from the US Civil War being a little-known example outside the US.
        But even worldwide, it’s almost harder to find countries that *didn’t* have concentration camps at some point during the last 200 years.

        • Fantastic

          Don’t forget “Interment” camps.

        • Liam JH

          Internment ;)

        • zarathustra2k1

          “in·ter·ment
          /inˈtərmənt/

          Noun
          The burial of a corpse in a grave or tomb, typically with funeral rites.Synonyms
          burial – funeral – inhumation – sepulture – entombment”

        • Fantastic

          Could be more right than we know with Japan going for 10 year sentences for Sharing now. Maybe this busted keyboard is trying to tell me something..other than to get a new one.

  • Davis

    Don’t cry for KimConz
    He knows how to sell his friends , his collegues and his customers for money
    Now he’s gonna sell them for freedom
    Why the f* do you believe he started the new mega?

    • Yeep

      To make more money?

      • kreda

        to make some money?

        • Yeep

          Some… A few… It still is “more” money,
          even if he just earns 3 cents, it’s more for him.
          I didn’t implied anything else,
          I’m not a fanatic like these guys.

        • Yeep

          Damn, *I didn’t imply

    • Anon77

      Anyone who fights against the media companies and America, who are using their friends to influence laws in other countries and make criminals of ordinary people, gets my support.

      Our personal views of Dotcom are less important.

  • ScrewEwe2

    On a positive note, KDC is lucky he’s not being extradited to Japan.

  • castingcouch

    And yet all those crooked politicians, bankers, brokers are “too big to jail”.

  • anonymous

    regardless of what the case is about at this moment, ie, whether it’s for extradition, prison or flying to the Moon, surely a defendant must have full knowledge of the charges and the evidence used to present those charges? how can anyone defend themselves if they do not know what they have to defend against? and remember people, this is all over the sharing of data, not a bank robbery or a diamond heist, not the rape of some innocent woman or a murder, not even any form of industrial espionage or hacking (from the Mega side, at least). it’s about data being passed around. those that own that data employed the assistance of their friends in USA law enforcement to conduct a witch hunt on one person, not because what was happening was wrong or illegal, not because of evidence of wrong doing but because they didn’t like him or his business. as he was outside of the USA they lied to another government to get assistance in performing an illegal arrest. the attitude of ‘do me a favour mate, you scratch my back, i’ll scratch yours’ is even more obvious now, seeing as how the NZ prime minister has been involved in personal talks with the USA entertainment industries bosses after being summoned to Hollywood, what does that tell you? anyone think there may be some influence on the court to arrive at the latest decision? what right have they got to ‘summon’ the leader of another nation? it shows his lack of balls and which way he is going to lean, doesn’t it! the whole issue stinks to high Heaven! it shows the lengths certain people who fear the future will go to and exactly what can be bought when you have enough money and enough ‘friends in high places’!! there is no ‘justice’ being shown here. all there is what someone wants and what is happening to bring that ‘want’ to fruition. it shows as well what chance an ordinary person has in the future in any sort of legal case over file sharing. absolutely none!!

    • bobmail

      ” surely a defendant must have full knowledge of the charges and the evidence used to present those charges?”

      Read the judgement. The details of the charges and evidence against him will come out in a US court of law, not the NZ one. All the NZ courts need is a basic outline of the case against him, proof of indictment, and that’s that.

      When Fat Kim gets himself to the US to face the courts, they will get all the disclosure that every other defendant gets. He doesn’t get the luxury of hiding out of the jurisdiction, trying to argue the case with someone else’s laws.

      • Anyone

        but so far they haven’t shown any proof, mostly because there is none

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          But there is evidence of illegal use of government resources for what is essentially a civil case and evidence that illegal wiretapping had occurred

        • bobmail

          ” for what is essentially a civil case ”

          Criminal copyright violations (aka, piracy) are not a civil case, it’s a criminal case.

          Try to keep up with the program.

        • bobmail

          “Proof” is a subject for the court case in the US, not for the extradition process. Having a indictment in the US shows that there is sufficient evidence for the US courts to move forward.

          In simple terms, if Kim was in the US, he would have already been arrested, and there would be no doubt at all about it being valid.

        • Guest

          The US may have issued an indictment of charges but the indictment has not been served and will not be served until Dotcom sets foot on US soil as per stated by the US DOJ.

        • Guest

          “”"Proof” is a subject for the court case in the US, not for the extradition process.”"

          So what you are saying that you can have someone extradited from some other country because you say that the person committed a crime and not have to give any proof that the person actually committed said crime in the first place. To do that is unlawful.

        • bobmail

          “So what you are saying that you can have someone extradited from some other country because you say that the person committed a crime and not have to give any proof that the person actually committed said crime in the first place. To do that is unlawful.”

          No, please read again:

          Having a indictment in the US shows that there is sufficient evidence for the US courts to move forward.

          If an indictment is enough to get you arrested in the US (and it is), then it’s enough for the US to request extradition as well.

        • Guest

          But the indictment has yet to be served and as stated by the US DOJ will not be served until Dotcom sets forth of US soil.

          “”then it’s enough for the US to request extradition as well”".

          It may be what is required for the US to request extradition but it may not be required or even enough proof of the indictment itself for NZ to even grant the extradition and extradite Dotcom at all.

          If you want someone to be extradited from another country you do have to respect and comply with that countries legal and extradition process and not fall short of what that country legally requires. So far the US is lacking with respecting following NZ legal system with regards to illegal raid, illegal search and seizure of Dotcoms property from his home and illegally transferring that evidence back to the US and so far the US is refusing to comply with the NZ court ruling of giving back that evidence that was illegally obtained.

          If you want someone extradited from another country then the country requesting the extradition request to commit illegal actions themselves is one way to get the actual extradition refused.

        • bobmail

          “But the indictment has yet to be served and as stated by the US DOJ will not be served until Dotcom sets forth of US soil.”

          It’s called “the reason for extradition”.

          Thanks for explaining it.

          The rest of your post is hyperbole and bullshit, mixed in equal parts. You answered you own question, why keep prattling on?

        • Guest

          “”It’s called “the reason for extradition”"

          And that is why there is an extradition hearing to see if extradition is warranted which will no doubt extradition will be refused judging by the fact that the US refuses to comply with the NZ court ruling of returning back the illegally obtained evidence in the illegal search, seizure and raid on Dotcom’s home.

          “”The rest of your post is hyperbole and bullshit, mixed in equal parts.”"

          As most of your comments too Bob so why prattle on here yourself making a fool of yourself.

        • He’s a little silly

          The funny thing is he agreed with you that it hasn’t been served and therefore shot his entire argument in the foot.

        • MadAsASnake

          An indictment does no such thing. It may be an assertion by the prosecutor that there is – that is all. The DOJ were relying on KDC being toor poor to fight back. Well, NZ courts really did not like that little game now did they?

        • bobmail

          Actually, the only NZ courts that didn’t like it was an extremely biased judge (I wonder if Kim paid him off after all that?). When it got to a level of judge that wasn’t tainted, surprise, Fat Kim loses.

          As I said originally, the first NZ judge seemed to be trying to have the DOJ present the case in NZ, and judge Kim there. That is not how extradition works. The most recent ruling by the higher court shows that simple fact.

          Perhaps you can stand back and accept that the only rulings in Kim’s favor have been from judges who have either been removed from the case or corrected by an upper court.

        • Inkle

          No the previous judges rulings were not biased at all Bob. This Appeal Court decision could still be overturned by the Supreme Court. Even the Judge who oversees the extradition hearing could ask for further disclosure of evidence if they want to. Extradition will be refused and when it is I am sure you will say that the Judge is corrupt.

        • bobmail

          “No the previous judges rulings were not biased at all Bob. ”

          That would be why the first judge lost his job, for basically trashing the US in public? Clearly not biased at all, right?

          Any other bedtime stories you want to tell?

        • Inkle

          No the first judge did not loose his job he stepped down from the case at his own choosing but no doubt the US would kicked up a fuss if he had remained. So clearly no biased at all. Do you have any other bedtime stories without exposing yourself as a troll.

        • bibmail

          He removed himself from the case just before he was forcibly removed. That he kept his job after showing such high levels of bias is beyond understanding.

          An activist judge is the worst thing for a court, as they bring their prejudices and opinions with them. If he was pro-copyright, you guys would be shitting yourselves screaming for him to get fired.

        • MadAsASnake

          That would be a lot of US judges… no he wasn’t an activist – but did call the US out on their dishonest prosecution.

        • MadAsASnake

          Notice that you don’t see US judges with massive conflicts of interest doing this…

        • Honest Judges

          He saw what they were doing to the law and spoke up to protect the LAW and to warn other judges to watch out.

        • MadAsASnake

          … because he said something that could be misinterpreted … apply that standard to the DOJ and US prosecutors. They’d all be out of jobs.

        • An honest judge

          A well respected judge who looked at the case, saw what the US was trying to pull and spoke up even though he knew it would cost him his job. THATS how badly the US is trampling law to get this done.

        • bobmail

          Umm yeah, the judge that called the US “the enemy”?

          Not biased at all, is he?

        • MadAsASnake

          That is a vile misquote – he paraphrased a quote from “We have seen the enemy and it is us” to “We have seen the enemy and it is U.S.” It’s a joke, and quite an apt one. based on the way the US lied and cheated (to get a raid bigger than that on Bin Laden, stealing evidence from Police Custody and refusing to return it and so on).

        • MadAsASnake

          As far as I am aware, both judges Harvey and Winkelman are widely respected in NZ. One judge made a minor faux pas in a sepparate forum that was pounce upon by the US. I would note that no US individual involve in this would last 5 seconds under this sort of scrutiny. No they are not biased. The judges in NZ are trying to establish whether their is a Prima Facie case (doubtful), whether it is extraditable (the main charge is not, the others are ringers) and whether KDC could get a fair trial. The military raid, theft of evidence and refusal of DOJ to honour NZ judgments all argue a pretty resounding “NO”. The US needed this win, because they cannot produce a case. They still won’t get extradition.

    • Colin Carr

      Shouldn’t that be, “You scratch my back and I’ll stab yours.”…

    • how naive of you all

      As someone who has actually been extradited before, your notion of :” surely a defendant must have full knowledge of the charges and the evidence used to present those charges? how can anyone defend themselves if they do not know what they have to defend against?” is truly naive.

      A Grand Jury indictment can be obtained against you without you ever knowing the charges against you, without you even knowing you’re under investigation for anything, without ever being given the opportunity to be heard in front of that Grand Jury. All that’s required is for a prosecutor to present a biased, fabricated, one-sided case supported by statements from others and/or alleged evidence/ It’s simply called a “secret indictment”.

      You never know what hit you until the US Marshals come knocking down your door. In most cases involving alleged financial crimes you’ll find they’ve also succeeded in freezing all your funds and assets thus making your ability to defend yourself legally even more questionable.

      In my case it took 9 1/2 months of being held in a jail before a judge ruled in my favor and threw the case out even reprimanding the prosecutor for bringing his baseless case. And if you think you get financially recompensed for the crap you went through, think again.

      Kim is just lucky he’s going to have funds to fight with. The majority of people aren’t going to be in that position.

    • 2013DoesntMatter

      Just thinking about your comment I came to the conclusion that even if MEGA Kim Schmitz Dot Com is himself a backstabbing moneywhore who uses popular demand and skews public opinion about his persona and his criminal past, he is STILL the BEST BET to stand up to that foul copyright regime of the US of Aholes. You are very right about that. Sure we do not have to like that dude. He just turned out to be a hard to swallow bite for the US DoJ. Maybe it was the right time for his business to vanish and become a major disturbance in the operation of all copyright movements. Imagine MU would still exist, not shut down but under heavy fire of government agencies and pro-IP-groups. There would be no talks about that stuff. No millions of people that lost their precious private files to a lie of their own government (as if that did not happen in the past in much more important occurrences for example war against terror/communism/drugs …) This shit puts the US to shame and I much rather prefer it to be the way it plays out now than people living oblivious to the fact that governments are restricting access to information and rewriting the laws on a daily basis and more important are trying to monopolize the internet in the favour of ONE industry/country/elitist group to the detriment of us all. It is another assault on human rights and a sad attempt at scapegoating one business for the failures of the whole industry. The former also being under assault by elitist interests all around the world (thanks to G.W. for being a total fucking whiny bitchass and manipulating the US populace into lashing out at the rest of the world in blind rage, crippling the economy and turning a blind eye on the biggest criminals of our time while at the same time burying their constitutional granted rights for the sake of a naive believe of security – fucking asshole). And I blame Mr.O currently in the office for continuing on the same path with this shitty drone warfare and complete disregard for collateral damage while shedding tears in front of the masses for a few dead kids in a school shooting… where is that fucking Change you spoiled us with. Why in the fuck do our leaders CAVE in to these scumbags? Are they afraid of the consequences? Are they afraid to die for their core belief of freedom and equality / is the burden too big to carry? Or are they just simple marionettes instated by the global regime of big business. (We have seen what happened to the leaders that opposed the banks/war driven industries time and time again.)

      On that note… GO KIM! (even though you are an ass)

      • DocGerbil100

        Paragraphs.

        They’re useful.

        :)

      • bobmail

        ” he is STILL the BEST BET to stand up to that foul copyright regime of the US of Aholes.”

        Oh god no, he’s the worst.

        He’s arrogant, he’s smug, and he’s a convicted criminal already when it comes to financial crimes. He’s the type of defendant that a judge loves to slap around for being so arrogant and self-justified.

        Then you go off on Obama and drone warfare and pretty much you have exposed yourself as a nutjob. Give it up already. Rather than spinning conspiracy theories, perhaps you can go back to school and learn about paragraphs.

        • captain

          “He’s arrogant, he’s smug”

          Well thats how are you are to people on here. Maybe you should give it up then spinning your conspiracy theories and exsposing yourself as a nutjob

        • bobmail

          I have no conspiracy theories, sorry.

          Perhaps you are reading someone else’s comments and magically thinking they are mine.

          I don’t have a conspiracy theory, and I am not spinning much of anything.

        • BuddhaFacePalmed

          Except you’re spinning the stick up your ass that apparently powers your brain. Also, bobmail here has more disqus personas than someone with personality dissociative disorder he can’t even tell whether someone posting under *bobmail* is someone else or him after a magical night with his hand, tissue, and lotion.

  • http://twitter.com/NigaStoleMyXbox Ellis Dee

    FUCK! I’m so ashamed to say I live in the USA. So,it sounds like the US has no evidence. Is that correct? They can just SAY they have a case and that’s that? Fuck the nigger in the Blackhouse.

    • The Guy

      I would agree, and many others would too, that the racial remark is quite unnecessary, but other than that, i’m with you there about being ashamed of being a resident of the USA

    • xi_ruler

      So, not only are you a racist, you’re ignorant as hell. You do realize that Obama is a figurehead and isn’t the one making policy. That’s your people who are wrecking havoc on the world.

      • bobmail

        Yup, Ellis Dee is a poster child for piracy, and ignorant racist who doesn’t seem to understand the law.

  • byebyekim

    Bye Bye Kim……. He is going down big time.
    He is f##ked. There is no way the USA goverment is going to let this guy taunt them by making a new file share site and declaring war on them, vowing to make them pay. I guess Kim did not learn O’level conformity at school….Don’t kick against bricks. You are never going to win going against goverments because they make the rules and we all follow them like blind sheep.
    Trust me, he is gone.

    • MadAsASnake

      Don’t bet on it. US won’t get the extradition. Even if they do, they’ll find the lack of a case a real problem.

    • zarathustra2k1

      “We all follw them like blind sheep”? Speak (your utter drivel) for yourself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/forkingham.melle Forkingham Melle

    in opening Mega, he and his associates have a guaranteed income to fight this all they way. he may be a money maker through file sharing, but essentially, it is internet freedom that will disapear should he run out of funds and admit defeat in the US courts. i don’t really like his ideas, but i support his cause. fuck extradition-itis usof ass fucks

  • user

    (Maybe) Kim is just in it for the money, but sadly enough he is the only one who is (out of need) fighting the U.S. government with all he’s got.
    I never used MU and am not going to use the new M, but still wish him all the best in this fight. Maybe (I know it’s not going to happen) even the way extraditions are being handled will get an overhaul (Assange). First New Zealand, then the world.
    Dreams are the last to go :-)

    • user

      Sorry, I was being a bit unclear. He is the only bigger provider, who is fighting the U.S. (All other bigger providers, ISPs, … just cave).

    • bobmail

      I don’t think you understand Kim at all.

      He will make all the brave statements and all the bravado, but at the end of the day, he likes his money and his big lifestyle more than he likes your “free speech” rights. As soon as it’s clear that he is going to end up in the US and is going to get fucked, he will be wheeling and dealing and trying to save his $50,000 a month lifestyle from getting squeezed.

      My guess is that he will do some time in a minimum security prison, get fined a big part of the money he earned, but still be left a happy millionaire when he gets out of the other side.

      His support of the “free speech” banner only goes so far.

  • dondilly

    There is a major problem with the US DOJ presenting a prima facie case in the context of the mega extradition and could well have been what winkelman and the other judge were trying to address.

    A prima facie case is little more than a statement of case as perceived by the prosecuting aauthority ie does there appear to be a case to answer. The DOJ will no doubt try and use the same skewed, contentious and highly miss leading evidence as in the grand jury hearing. There will be little scope to contend the evidence.

    What the NZ judges were trying to address was the failings of relying on and trusting the fbi/doj and by extension the US legal system in this case considering that time and again they have been shown to act illegally in this case to the point of coercing senior nz politicians to conspire in their illegal activities. The FBI/DOJ are already in contempt of court for failure to return evidence not only illegally obtained but illegally removed from NZ.

    These latest nz judges seem to have missed the point of the previous ruling. What was at issue was not contesting a prima facia case but the fact US conduct has already cast serious doubt that KDC could ever receive a fair trial in the US. It was the fair trial issue that requires a full hearing.
    While some might still be gullible enough to still trust the US. The president has essentially removed the right to a fair trial via the NDAA and via executive orders. Their own citizens can be locked up indefinitely not only without trial or judicial oversight but without even being charged or informed what they have been accused of. Though this has been ruled unconstitutional, the gov immediately obtained an injunction staying the ruling until an appeal was heard. The only reason they would do this is if they already have ‘disappeared’ citizens in indefinite detention. Oh i failed to mention extrajudicial killing of us citizens too, again based purely on allegation.

    There is sufficient evidence available to cast doubt that they would receive a fair trial, it would be little more than a show trial in front of a kangaroo court.

    • bobmail

      “What the NZ judges were trying to address was the failings of relying on and trusting the fbi/doj and by extension the US legal system in this case considering that time and again they have been shown to act illegally in this case to the point of coercing senior nz politicians to conspire in their illegal activities. ”

      Considering the original judge called the US “the enemy”, I would say that the rest of the world has a bit of a problem with the amount of bias in his court, and that the US could probably bring the strongest case ever and get it tossed by an biased judge.

      On the more level playing field of the appeals court, the US not surprisingly won. When the bias is removed, the case suddenly moves forward. How odd is that?

      “There is sufficient evidence available to cast doubt that they would receive a fair trial, it would be little more than a show trial in front of a kangaroo court.”

      Actually, there is only sufficient innuendo, misrepresentation, and wildly speculative blog posts to suggest that. The tin foil hat brigade will be right there next to you supporting your theories.

      • Idiots are everywhere

        You’ve got your tin hat on so why not everyone else?

  • Guest

    come on fatso, just bust a move to US

  • JangTrang

    Fatboy needs to have some more cheeseburgers I think.

    Anon-Web.da.bz

  • Violated0

    A disappointing result but there is a very long way to go before this case is over where just about everything will get appealed by one side or the other.

    I have read that very extradition treaty myself and it does clearly say that they do need to hand over the evidence where there is no mention of just providing a summary. Even if there is not full disclosure now then there needs to be if they grant extradition. I also cannot see that a Judge would deny a request for any specific information related to the case.

    You can read that NZ extradition treaty here yourself where Articles XII and XVI are the important parts on evidence disclosure…
    http://newzealand.usembassy.gov/uploads/images/o16y8MOyHW2l-jJTxaMpeQ/ExtraditionUSNZ.pdf

    • 2013DoesntMatter

      thx.

    • DocGerbil100

      Interesting link, thank you. :)

      Is there another treaty relating to extraditions from New Zealand to the United States, perhaps relating to filesharing, organised crime or terrorism?

      I only ask because Article II of this treaty enumerates all the things a New Zealand resident can be extradited for, but fails to mention anything that really matches Kim’s indictment – with the sole exception of the money-laundering charges, which look suspiciously like they’ve been concocted purely for the purpose of facilitating this extradition in the first place.

      For those wondering whether evidence is or isn’t needed for extradition, Article X says this:
      “When the request relates to a person who has not yet been convicted, it must also be accompanied by a warrant of arrest issued by a judge or other judicial officer of the requesting Party and by such evidence as, according to the laws of the requested Party, would justify his arrest and committal for trial if the offense had been committed there, including evidence proving the person requested is the person to whom the warrant of arrest refers” [emphasis mine].

      Assuming the barrier to extradition hasn’t been watered down by subsequent treaty or legislation, it seems to me (as a non-lawyer) that his deportation depends upon whether there’s enough evidence to justify both Kim’s arrest and his committal for trial in the USA – that’s consistent with both Kim’s legal pleadings and the judgments handed down by the lower courts so far.

      The requirement of evidence justifying arrest seemingly didn’t require much more than the DoJ turning up to court, but the second requirement of evidence justifying trial is another matter.

      As of yet, the DoJ has offered nothing to the public to suggest that this was anything other than a fishing exercise on behalf of the MPAA. If they had better evidence, presumably they would by now be shouting this fact from the rooftops.

      All signs point to this case being another Dajaz1. Political manipulations of the courts aside, it seems like there are few reasons to believe that Kim will ever be successfully prosecuted under current US law – and no honest judge anywhere in the West would commit this case to a full trial.

      Even among US judges, there appear to be serious questions being asked as to whether or not a trial will ever happen if Kim is
      extradited.

      If the New Zealand supreme court actually follows it’s own country’s laws, the extradition should not be granted.

      • bobmail

        You are making only one mistake, you are confusing “evidence sufficient for arrest” with “evidence sufficient for conviction”. It’s why the US legal system has this interesting option called “not guilty”, not everyone who is arrested is immediately guilty with no options or choices for the system.

        This case doesn’t look like Dajaz1 at all, because (a) there is way too much money on the line, and (b) there are actions by the defendant to try to hide the ill gotten gains through money laundering. There isn’t just a few copyright violations, there is a systematic attempt to profit from the unlicensed works of others.

        Remember: The only copyright violation the US government has to show is distribution without a license. If they can show (and apparently they can) that Fat Kim was aware that his service was selling access to copyright material, and chose to keep doing it, then he’s always 99% of the way fucked legally. That he set up offshore companies and diverted the ill gotten gains in an attempt to launder them and make them “clean” for use is the rest of the issue, and the one likely to leave him in jail for a long time.

        This isn’t a civil case. There is no need to prove actual losses or anything like that. The simple concept of selling access to the product without a license is in itself a criminal offense, and one that Kim appears to have a hard time denying.

        • bobnomail

          You really have no idea what you are talking about bob as per usual.

        • bobmail

          I am sure your deep and meaningful reply addresses all the points. Your one liner really showed me.

          troll.

        • lent

          Your response to the persons comment was really deep and meaningful and it truly shows how much of a troll you are.

        • bobmail

          deep.

        • Your iq is falling

          Deny what? its currently “we want him, send him over” hasn’t even reached the “He sold access” part yet. Stay focused while trolling please.

        • MadAsASnake

          In what way was he selling access? You might also note the term “Beyond reasonable doubt” and wonder how that will run with a case built on innuendo. MPAA blather is irrelevant in this forum

  • steve

    Well there goes any remote chance of justice, of course we all know that this case was a sham from the get go. The court system cements it’s reputation as a useless non-impartial entity. As soon as KDC sets foot on American soil, any chance of a fair trial is impossible. Welcome to the United States of Kangaroo-politically/fascist motivated Courtrooms. Not that I give a shit about KDC but the way he is treated is important in the way that all people will be treated the same for simply running a data transfer business.

    • Colin Carr

      Hmmm, just when the earlier hearings had me believing the New Zealand judiciary weren’t corrupt. Let’s see how this plays out if it gets to the NZ Supreme Court.

  • JordanKratz

    Fuck You MAFIAA !
    Fuck The US Government !
    Looking forward to dragging the Politicians onto the Street and giving them the ole Tar & Feather Treatment someday !

  • bendover

    Agreed, And What have we learnt from all this? A million judges can Say that the american move was wrong,but it only takes one to say its right and they win? Nothing suss

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      No, they don’t win just because one judge or court says that the American move was right, save if it’s the Supreme Court and even then, Supreme Court decisions CAN be overturned by acts of law.

  • ryesta7971

    fuck the current government

    dismantle it brick-by-brick. Rebuild it based on the citizens, and include a new amendment authorizing the hunting of politicians if they refuse to follow the will of the people

    • TheExtremist

      Nah man. Include a new amendment authorizing the hunting of big biz managers for screwing up the economy. Every time there is a would be economical crisis or a bubble that is ignored, the people at wall street and in that regard all traders and fraudsters in any viable world market trading institution are held personally liable for each and every personal and business loss that might result from it. We need a second french revolution and bring back the guillotine. People lose their money, their homes, their hard earned fortune? Heads roll on Monday. Stocks fall on Tuesday? Public CEO lashings on Wednesday. News report major national debt on Thursday? Department heads and Bank owners get publicly stoned on Friday. Free barbecue on Saturday and Sunday funded by every single banking institution in the country. That’s how we roll! I assure you these fucks won’t dare to do shit without asking each of their customers for a written permission which by the way will be signed by wiping ones ass with it. Only paper they will ever see in their life from here on out.

      I just fucking hate corrupt big biz faggots that think of themselves as something much worthier to society and mankind. Or maybe they just don’t give a fuck about mankind at all.

      • ryesta7971

        You forget that it is the government that is fighting for the media moguls on their behalf…and on our dime. Congressional lobbying has already paid for itself, and then some. Without a strong and centralized government, the MAFIAA would have to fight every every single person they sue in a court of law (and actually provide evidence)….and that’s provided that copyright isn’t done away with altogether, or at least scaled back to its original intent.

  • Pingback: Kim Dotcom Loses Appeal In Extradition Battle | WebProNews

  • ghamarkhanum

    Does anybody actually care anymore? This guy re-launched MU just to save his pocket that was getting emptied so fast but f**ed it up big time, the fact that the new MU’s alexa rank is going down by the second is proof enough, so, no, I think nobody cares anymore…

    http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=t&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=3m&u=mega.co.nz&

    • idbackit

      Whats amazing is that he actually got people to back his new business. They’ve obviously agreed that the whole mu case is bullcrap and have agreed to finance his new project and make millions. Which means they saw the potential for this service in the market.

  • Colin Carr

    Hmmm, maybe Kim, his family & associates need a Plan B involving going to Ecuador or Venezuela

  • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

    Which Court of Appeals was this? There are quite a few that are overturned on a regular basis so them making a decision isn’t ‘final’ in the slightest.

  • chunjie821

    tinyurl.com/cnaff79

  • HITLER

    BOMB AMERICA TO HELL! FUCKING BASTARDS

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  • THE FREE INTELLIGENT WORLD

    BOMB THE STUPID USA TO HELL! FUCKING BASTARDS

  • THE FREE INTELLIGENT WORLD

    DOWN DOWN DOWN WITH THE FUCKING MOTHERSHITTING USA! MAY THE DEVIL COME DOWN TO THE USA SOON

  • 2013just2013

    Wherever my comment went… I appologize for the nametaking faggot that wrote up something about mothershitting USA and a vist from the Devil… I spent like 30 minutes replying to anonymous comment from about 7 hours ago. Then after hitting the reply button I saw that one single CAPSLOCKED uttering of bullshit in the first row on disqus…

  • NZLaughingStockOfTheWorld

    US: We want to extradite one of your citizens
    NZ: What evidence do you have
    US: Can’t say
    NZ: Okay, when do you want him?

    • MadAsASnake

      NZ courts are unlikely to let that happen.

  • LUZIFER COMES TO AMERICA

    NUKE OUT THE WHOLE USA! MAY THE DEVIL COME SOON TO THAT LOUSY COUNTRY

    • BuddhaFacePalmed

      What makes you think the devil even wants to go there? As far as he’s concerned there are far more greener pastures abroad.

      • ScrewEwe2

        What makes you think the Devil is a male? A few examples:

        1. From the song: “Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress. Devil with the blue dress on….
        2. The movie The Devil wears Prada.
        3. The Devil Is a Woman is a 1935 romance film directed and photographed by Josef von Sternberg. The Devil Is a Woman, is based on the 1898 Pierre Louys novel La Femme et le Pantin.
        4. A couple of my ex-girlfriends.

        • empty

          Also the devil wants to turn innocent souls to evil. He’d starve there.

  • Guest

    United Fascists of America

  • Pingback: U.S. Government Wins Appeal in Kim Dotcom Extradition Battle

  • Guest

    Sickening corruption, this ruling was probably already pre-determined before the proceedings even started.

  • NewClear

    To quote Mr. Spock:

    “We must acknowledge once and for all that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.”

  • frozar

    It’s not corruption if it’s blessed by God. You underestimate the power that the US derives from stupid people.

  • Internet_Zen_Master

    “U.S. would be allowed to present a summary case after all.”

    So what they’re saying is that the DOJ is basically going to regurgitate the same over-generalized, dehumanizing statements (which is kind of a prosecutor’s job, but w/e) that they made back when Dotcom was first arrested last year? Fair enough I guess.

    While this battle have gone to the US DOJ, the war seems far from over.

    I expect Dotcom to fight tooth and nail against the “MEGA conspiracy” the DOJ is trying to portray him and his associates as. Since copyright infringement can be both a criminal and a civil offense (don’t ask me why, that’s just how the laws are written), Dotcom might either end up in prison or sued for every penny he’s worth, or both.

    Say what you will about the tubby egomaniac, the fact is he’s in the best position to expose the revolving door of politics/lobbyists to the world via the courtroom. Now whether or not he’ll actually do that is another matter.

    As the Zen Master says, “We’ll see.”

  • Wormlore

    “NZ Court rulings on discovery: 2 (yes) vs 1 (no)”

    Except it doesn’t work by “majority”, but by “the highest court wins” (or “the last one decides all”).

    I agree with this last ruling on one point: the extradition trial is not about “guilty or innocent”. However, it is already fair at this point to know if the “proofs” are legal and honest enough to, as they say,”have a prima facie case to answer”. Otherwise it will be only a case of “Well, I say I have a case and I don’t have to justify it. – Agreed, extradition is authorized.”

  • Adolf Hitler

    I’d love to see Iraq extradite George Bush and Dick Cheney on war crime charges, then infiltrate the US and kidnap them and bring them to Iraq for trial. This is no different than what the US does to other countries. Er actually they just send in a drone to murder their enemies.

  • http://twitter.com/inesbeag Ines Beag

    Aaron Swartz case again, but at a higher level. Give the defense all the documents, what does the US have to fear, fair is fair. Obama, get some balls.

    • bobmail

      It’s not like Aaron’s case at all. Aaron was a bad boy who trespassed physically to obtain materials, and got caught. His existing mental condition made him unable to handle the pressure that existed as a result of his actions.

      Kim’s taking home 50k a month… I don’t see him cracking under the pressure yet… not until he is due to get sent to the US. Then the fat boy will start to shit.

      • BuddhaFacePalmed

        Of course it isn’t like Aaron Swartz’s case at all. After all, both the complainants (the university and Jstor) already dropped all charges against him. Only the prosecutor wanted to press charges so she can get a tushy, cushy job in MAFIAA after her government service. Oh, and make an example of Aaron Swartz. And the fact, kim’s still here and Aaron is not.

        After that, government resources used illegally to gather evidence, which may not even exist are the hallmark of both cases.

  • Kim Dotcom

    The US of A. The country that allows ones dreams to come true. The country that honors and respects human dignity and freedom to express ones opinion.

    My fucking mega-fat arse does it. Bullshit to that.

    Here’s a one-fingered salute you assholes. Spin on it, you bastards.

    • hitler waffen ss

      its the jewish problem. they own hollywood and he us government. its the german kdc against american jewish rats. hitler did solve the problem in europe, when do they clean up in the usa?

    • himmler adolf

      one german guy vs. jewish hollywood and us motherf.. government

      • It’s True

        Don’t mention Jewish in the argument, I’m Jewish and I support KDC’s freedom.

  • FrampSamp

    Go have another Pizza or five fatboy!

    PlanetAnon.da.bz

  • http://www.facebook.com/james.h.hoffman James H. Hoffman

    un only has the right to try this case because the so called crime happen in to different country’s. usa has no right to press charges in it own borders. my gov the usa is insane and need to be stoped. will some leader from a another country put there foot down and tell my gov to stop violation international laws.

    • bobmail

      Not true. Where do you get that crap from?

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  • pippica

    F**K U.S.A.!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Namor-Principe-Dos-Mares/100000711648912 Namor Principe Dos Mares

    what do u spect fighting into the snake nest ? theres only one way, take the head off and the snake dies.

  • iMesZiV0x

    Why is it so difficult for Department of UnJustification and Federal Bastards of Invalidity to say, “We are charging you on this, this and this. Here is the evidence to show you have committed these crimes” ? Oh yeh, because the evidence doesn’t technically show this. If it did, then KDC would already be in jail.

    It’s pretty laughable when even the “ultimate superpower of the world” can’t even bring a single man down with the legal evidence. If he’s done so much wrong, why not share this? Oh right, i remember, sharing isn’t something you approve of!

  • http://www.nic.com/ KhornePony

    An evidence in summary format is pretty much useless unless it shows conclusive evidences. However, since it is a simple summary then, it is most likely a bunch of “hard to prove” stuff.

    So, the next step IS NOT go to the highest court but to wait for the evidence, (even if it is a small resume). If the evidences are weak, then, the whole case could be nulled. However, if the evidences are false or forged (or it can’t be proved the veracity) then the case could turn back against USA.

    So, right now, we can claim that Dot Com achieved a half victory (but still important), because USA is forced to give the evidences.

  • Olinb

    Most Americans who know anything at all about Kim Dotcom are deeply ashamed of the governments actions. I know I am.

  • Pingback: U.S. government authority wins appeal in Kim Dotcom extradition case | PC Hardware Guru

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  • Jack Ryan

    DOJ/FBI are seriously fucked in the head.

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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