UK Anti-Piracy Plans Cost More Than Music Industry ‘Losses’

enigmax
September 22, 2009
115
bpi,
BT
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As the UK file-sharing debate reaches fever pitch, with opinionated artists being shipped in by the bus load to condemn it, inevitably attention is turning to the costs associated with trying to end it. According to a boss at ISP BT, not only are the government’s plans doomed to fail, but could end up costing ISPs a staggering £1m a day.

As Lily Allen leads a procession of artists showing a united front against online music piracy and calls ever louder for the government to do something about it, the cold light of day has kicked in. Just how much is the hoped-for crackdown on illicit file-sharers going to cost?

Yesterday, speaking with the UK’s The Mirror, John Petter, boss of ISP BT’s consumer division, said that measures to tackle Internet piracy will be costly.

Noting that ISP profit margins are already small, Petter said he fears that the process could cost ISPs a staggering £365m a year.

However, according to Jupiter Reseach, whose figures the BPI uses when trying to convince others how much money they lose, the British music industry will lose £200m worth of business to online piracy in 2009.

If the BPI’s ‘losses’ figures are to be believed (and we have to go along with the ridiculous premise of 1 download = 1 lost sale in order to do so), saving £200m worth of business will end up costing ISPs almost double that amount.

“Their [music industry] claims are melodramatic and assume people would buy all the music that is illegally downloaded, which is nonsense,” said Petter, adding that laws are already in place to deal with illicit file-sharing, but the industry doesn’t want to use those particular ones because it would hurt their public image.

Petter’s final point is possibly the most important one. He believes that the war against file-sharing will lead to a technological arms race as Internet users find new ways to hide their activities.

Indeed, by spending a measly £3.00 per month on a cheapo VPN service from the likes of SwissVPN, it’s possible for any user to tunnel right out of the UK and no-one in the country will have a clue what they are doing on their connection. Not the BPI, not ISPs, not the government.

That’s around 10p per day to defeat a £1m a day system that isn’t even in place yet. Something doesn’t add up.

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Jasper100

they just don’t get it!
they are considering HURTING THEIR CUSTOMERS ????????????

NOW LETS F_U _C _K THEM STUPID PEOPLE
I WONT SPEND ANY EURO ON COPYRIGHT ANY MORE IT YOUR OWN FOLD!

jAsPeR100
http://www.eZee.se www.eZee.se

“Petter’s final point is possibly the most important one. He believes that the war against file-sharing will lead to a technological arms race as Internet users find new ways to hide their activities.”

Already happening in Sweden, I’m writing this comment behind a VPN.
Turbis

This is getting redicoulus.
dude

so much for the public spending row all over the news in the UK.

also:
inb4 Reasoned Mind trolls the comments again
hmmm

All this nonsense is just a way to give over-evaluated contracts to companies owned by governments’ friends, in every country…

That new market is called a “milking cow” in companies’ language.

That money could help the needy, but governments prefer to strenghten their true allies.
Jonathan

Amazing that is costs more to catch the pirates then leave them be. The industry is also a little too gun ho about spotify as a solution to piracy. Saw this article that quite rightly questions whether spotify does help the music industry and fans. http://www.neonfiller.com/page6.htm#49231
Reasoned Mind

NO 7

WOOT

PIRACY SUCKZ
The doctor

The various anti piracy companies and studios wont be happy until everyone is living under a George Orwellian “1984″ style scenario where everything is monitored via intrusive DPI and where they have finally assumed control of the internet as the “true” media master race.

This entire debate is now moving more towards restrictions on basic civil rights and not simply greed.

The sooner the EU court on civil rights gets involved and stops this shit the better.
Amused

Quite honestly, I’m loving this. Seeing those aging techno-illiterate industry fatcats die a slow and painful death is almost better than sex!
The industry has fouled up by putting out twice as many movies and music albums as they did 15 years ago, thereby devaluing the appeal of each movie or album. Plus, they do this against a backdrop of vastly increased competition from alternative sources of entertainment… video games, internet chatting and other social media à la FaceBook, mobile phone chatting and messaging, cheap air travel, cheap clothes… all these things were either non-existant or much more expensive 15 years ago. So the competition for my money and for my free time is much more heated than for my Dad who had 3 options: listen to music CD’s, get stoned or go the movies (his words, not mine). The choices I have are infinitely more abundant both in terms of variety and cost.
So how do the music and movie industries figure they’re gonna ram twice as much film and music down my throat compared with my Dad?
Honestly, these people are lemmings!
MM99

The Poor ISPs…probably many of them won’t get a good night’s sleep if the music industry has its way…
ME

All I can say is that the musicians and the industry had the option to work with us on this, and they have chose not to. They can now reap what they sow. Are they honestly that blind to the situation. Look at the proof. NIN, Radiohead, Moby… all have experienced huge growth in record sales since they began working with file sharing as a means of distrubution. Too bad Lily Allen and Muse dont want to follow the same trend and are too tied up by their labels and their assumptions that all file sharers are theives.

Go ahead, spend millions trying to protect yourselves from us, we can spend 20$ a month use a VPN or seedbox, or even use KDX which is starting to fire up again (yeah, good luck catching us sharing on there!!), end of the day, aint a thing that they can do. Denial is the one thing that will hold them up. We are here to stay, and there aint nothing they can do about it. Just sad that they cant see the truth.
anonymouse

although this issue has been billed as being about loss of profit by the music/movie industries, it is even more about control. as #8 says, basic civil rights are being eroded and that needs to be stopped now!
http://www.eZee.se www.eZee.se

@6,
Nice article link, i dont care for the Beatles but i see what he meant in the article and i know there are plenty of people who do give a sh!t about the Beatles.

As for spotify being the end all solution, far from it, you cant really play it on your car stereo (without some major hacking) on your way to work, lend a song to a friend etc etc

Its also not the end all solution as you dont own any of the songs, a kind of songs-for-hire thingy when people have gotten used to owning songs before the LP to present day CDs and MP3s… unless you rip it of course via the many softwares available for windows or something like wiretap pro for Mac…buts thats illegal in Spotifys TOS even though its 100% non detectable.

Ripping the songs gives you an end product that you can share with other people (not what the labels want) in a decent quality (if you think itunes mp3s are ok) just as if you had ripped a CD.

Artists still get shafted with either even smaller slices of the pie (yes, you might think its impossible but the labels have found a way) or no slice of the pie at all.

So although it may be touted as the end all solution by the morons at the labels… look at their past and honestly – who the f**k can or should believe them?
www.druckbesser.de

Thats typical for the UK.
There’s really nothing left to say.
ZBR

I think it’s fair that ‘the industry’ wants to protect its ‘product’. I can even understand those SIGNED artists who hope to never have to do any proper work again. They just want to preserve the cashflow to keep their habits and you cannot really blame them.

What annoys me is that they all speak in the name of artists, and introduce very dangerous legislations.

I am an artist myself, and if ‘illegal’ downloads will be stopped it will only be for good for all of us content creators that can support themselves from doing something else – we can release our productions hoping they will be copied and be happy each time a new seeder joins in.

If you don’t like mainstream figures’ greed, just don’t listen to their music. It’s as simple as that.
ZBR

(when I said “if ‘illegal’ downloads will be stopped t will only be for good” I meant – if we stop copying their content by our own will. Of course if it is stopped by DPI or three-strikes – it’s not good)
Sendaii

“Their [music industry] claims are melodramatic and assume people would buy all the music that is illegally downloaded, which is nonsense,” said Petter, adding that laws are already in place to deal with illicit file-sharing, but the industry doesn’t want to use those particular ones because it would hurt their public image.

I don’t see why it would make a difference. Their public image is already damaged beyond repair.

I thought I’d seen it all. They are perfectly happy to let an industry that millions rely on every day collapse as long as they get their way. We might be thieves (as they call us), but at least we don’t try to pull selfish stunts like this. For God’s sake, it would be cheaper for them to leave us be. I’m now more determined than ever to see the major labels die their deaths.
How Funny…

So these so called artists are losing money to buy drugs with, well i’ll be getting plenty of lily’s albums & any other pirate artists & passing them on so people don’t have to give them any more money or the riaa either.

I was recruiting 1 filesharer a week, so i’ll just make it 1 per day.

Time to weed out the the corporate whores people, send them all broke so we don’t have to listen to their crap.

P.S

Reasoned Mind is a pirate working for pirates :0)
Pingback: Glyn Moody (glynmoody) 's status on Tuesday, 22-Sep-09 15:31:06 UTC - Identi.ca
The doctor

@ ZBR

File sharing will never be stopped, but there are ways of earning additional revenue:

Why cannot the industry create a global store, with the same pricing for everybody, that can be accessed from anywhere in the world??

Your account should always remain as a back up to your purchases, so if the file is deleted, then it can be downloaded again for free and if a new movie format comes out, then it should only costs a minor charge per movie to have it all updated into the new format.

Until this model is approached then there is a large section of the population that has no other option aside from downloading something to watch. If the pricing is set too high for someone in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe etc, then it is set too high for someone in the UK, Europe, or the US as well. They should be trying to convert over those people that download, but would pay if they could or it was a reasonable price and they had options, not the section of the community that would never buy it in the first place even if they had to money to do so.

If you build it, they will come, to quote Field of Dreams. The industry originally scoffed at iTunes, but look at how well they are doing? It is physically impossible for a retail store to stock the line item depths that digital media can be stored on and then sold through the likes of an iTunes.

But at the same time, for a movie studio to still be charging for a movie greater than 30yrs old, a games studio for a game greater than 10yrs old and music greater than 40yrs old is pure and simple GREED, which is what many people object to – bought the LP, the Tape, the CD, then the DVD of so many artists. Same with my old VHS collection, then the Laserdisc, later DVD, but I refuse to buy everything again on Blu-Ray.
The doctor

@ ZBR

(Part 2)

I live in a non European, or English speaking country. I have a massive DVD , CD and games collection all legitimately purchased, but as I travel a lot I want to be able to take my media with me. How do I do this? Physical CD’s and DVD’s take up a shed load of space and get stuffed quickly with being packed around the place, so the obvious answer was to rip them into a digital format so they took no space on my laptop, or an external hard drive.

If I have purchased the said CD, DVD, or game I should be allowed to do this, but the industry says no. Even though in many countries in the world it is perfectly legal to make a back up copy of anything you have purchased.

Then there was the brilliant idea of DVD region codes, so even when I would like to buy a new DVD in another country it will not play (that was if I found one that also had English on it), so there became no reason to buy new DVD’s as I started to spend more and more time away from the country where my laptop was purchased.

Sure, I could go down to the market and buy the region free DVD’s etc, but then I am truly supporting people profiteering by selling the works of other people and these are some of the nasty groups they like to talk about.

I would happily use iTunes, or the likes to buy my media, but because of the business models and restrictions based upon countries I simply cannot, as my credit cards are not valid for any of the iTunes stores, as I am not in their region.
Unknown

test
Unknown

Why?
Unknown

http://www.google.com
ploppy

Any increase in cost to the ISP will lead to an increase in price to the consumer. Which in turn will lead to an increase in taxes paid to the government.
Anonymous

“that laws are already in place to deal with illicit file-sharing, but the industry doesn’t want to use those particular ones because it would hurt their public image.”

Whoahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

There public image!

Whohahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Their public images are now so mess-up that people want to kill them.

I have no doubt that this will happen.

Their public image!

They must be joking!
Dr Dre

Reasoned Mind! Still there?

Who is your employer?

Vivendique Univers-sale?

(Sale mean dirty in French. Like you.You probably stink. Your mind does at least like the rest of you.)
Khmuprince

I missed Demonoid! Anyone knows when it will be up? I cannot wait to use the site again. I hope the upgrade thing will not delete my account.

Peace!
hmm

#18 , Im with u on that.

But i doubt that the music/movie industi will do that, But if they do and set the prices in a non greedy way, seens they dont loose a thing more then power to the server by selling online. then i will buy from them.
Reasoned Mind

Yes, I’m still here, Dr. And there’s a reasonable chance of certainty it’s not me at #7 exclaiming WOOT PIRACY SUCKZ.

lol

(ahem)
And this particular article suffers from myopia.
The question to ask is not whether the cost is worth it for saving music. That’s what pirates focus on here, but government is probing ways to make the internet a reflection of real life, with all the control and acccountability for every product in EVERY digital industry that is here now or will be in the future.

Face the facts, the real question is whether government will allow “digital = free” and “you can’t stop us”. That’s the showdown pirates are staging at the moment. My money is on government and industry in the long run.

I, for one, just don’t think government gives up on this, and eventually the network will be a police state and the punishments will water your eyes.

But all that is fine by me.
I pay for all my stuff.

I wonder if pirates would mind if technology and stealth gave artists the same ability to “share” in pirate money, to take your stuff and render it unsellable, trade it around, profit from thousands of dollars worth of value, all unpaid, the way pirates force artists to share what they have to sell.

Nah. That’ll never happen.
Pirates couldn’t give a damn about “fair.” Pirates just want to take everything “free” but the free only works one way.
We’ll see for how much longer.

:-)
Reasoned Mind

Actually disregard all my previous posts. I $uck c0cks.
Reasoned Mind

Why is the Reasoned Mind above speaking in a different tone?

He doesn’t seem like the real Reasoned Mind.
x0Eurostyle0x

“Their [music industry] claims are melodramatic and assume people would buy all the music that is illegally downloaded, which is nonsense,”

Their right, they might not buy all the music that was downloaded. They forgot to say that when consumers like artists, they will go to shows/concerts and pay the artists directly. I also want to see the claims that back up the “200m” that the industry losses. If they are actually losing so much why don’t they adapt? Simple darwinism, either adapt or die.
Reasoned Mind

Hey, I got an idea. What if torrentfreak required registration to post comments?

That way we can know who the true Reasoned Mind is.
yesimenglish

This is embarrassing. When can I move to Sweden?
Anonymous

@27

Did you just say that music will die unless people pay for extraneous cd’s and other physical media?

I can’t believe you said that! That’s completely false! Music survived for thousands of years without recording devices, so tell me, why would the fact that artists can’t make extra money off merchandise sales remove their ability to make music in the first place?
The doctor

Finally the real truth from Reasoned Mind.

This entire issue has nothing what so ever to do about the artists and their lost income, or fostering “new talent”, it is simply about Big Corporate attempting to control the internet, which is where the next generation of massive profits shall come from.

This they are trying to achieve by eroding civil rights through lobbying for law changes. There is nothing the governments of the world fear more, than that of the people taking control of their own destiny, or Big Corporates of the consumer having freedom of choice.
Gavin

Files sharing has encourages allot more live performances. As artists and labels, are not making so much money off albums and singles, they are compelled to do live acts. This is a win for consumers in my opinion.

The artists and labels don’t like it as they have to do more work!
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RzmmDX

It’s funny that the Internet may become Internets.

But seriously, if they can sue people to bankruptcy, pretty sure they won’t care about the ISPs.
Reasoned Mind

Would the real Reasoned Mind please stand up?
Reasoned Mind

(standing)

#29. It’s the only post I’ve written in this thread.
djnforce9

@29:

I think all the reasoned mind posts in this thread are faked except for #27. That sounds just like him.

“I wonder if pirates would mind if technology and stealth gave artists the same ability to “share” in pirate money, to take your stuff and render it unsellable”

Pirate money? You got to be kidding me. No such thing exists and we’re not talking about selling pirated copies (as that IS wrong ethically and legally). Also, allowing everyone to sample music freely does NOT make it unsellable unless the artist knows it sucks and would rather have people “pay first, listen later”. True fans and supporters will order a CD, attend concerts, and buy merchandise. You’ve heard this already from several others but no matter what, you’ll choose to ignore it anyway since you’re probably paid to think the way you do (no sane person could POSSIBLY hold on to such beliefs like you do without being bought out).
djnforce9

Correction. I am now addressing #31 and #29 instead of #29 and #27. I hate how the post numbers change at will for some reason.
MissedMemories

lol…. Even though I’m a pirate… I’m for the one I would buy stuff if I could, since Life isn’t for free.. though I prefer GPL stuff, since I don’t have to care about noone coming from behind.. In any case.. Yeah, we should have to register.. I quite like having Reasoned Mind here…

In any case… if it is costing that much… or will cost (i don’t really care)… Well… It WILL be bad..

ANyway… we are in a crisis, we just need Social Disturbs, and a big fall… We already got the Epidemy of the H1N1 (or H1A1.. I don’t know.. or care), a crisis.. Let’s just have a run, and start reconstructing the world from scrath with GPL license =D
Hohoho….

What do you expect when you piss into the wind?
Same outcome every time as nature can not be fooled!
ByteThief

“Their [music industry] claims are melodramatic and assume people would buy all the music that is illegally downloaded, which is nonsense,” said Petter

This exaggeration that 1 download = 1 lost sale is flawed on many levels. Who do they think they’re fooling?

Of course, some downloads do = lost sales but this is the exception not the rule!

Not every download would have been a sale. Many things are good enough to download for free but not good enough to buy. If file sharing didn’t exist and those items had price tags on them instead of being free we’d see just how few sales there actually would have been.

Also, many people download things before they’re commercially available but once available they buy them. In this scenario 1 download = 1 sale NOT 1 lost sale so this would cancel out a lot.

@28
Yeah and… Your mom goes to college.

@27
That’s good you pay for all your stuff. I agree with you that governments will take steps to restrict the internet and that it’s only a matter of time. Restriction – yes, P2P elimination – no.

While it’s true that ‘pirates’ save gold by looting booty and don’t give a damn, the majority have ethics, rules to which they adhere. Not all ‘pirates’ “just want to take everything for free.”

‘Pirates’ understand the concept of overfishing. If they don’t support the copyright holders they’re looting from, the booty will become depleted.

Statistics show that ‘pirates’ buy more cargo than the average consumer. Consider the following:

1. ‘pirates’ who download exclusively (overfish) are in the minority.

2. ‘Pirates’ are those who like said cargo more than average consumers and will acquire said cargo by any means. There are many ‘pirates’ who appreciate fine things and will swagger to their nearest amazon and buy ‘new’ or ‘used like new’ in order to have the highest quality and support the copyright holders.

3. ‘Pirates’ are shrewd; they will only spend their gold on that which is truly worth owning (and sharing).
ByteThief

27 and 28 were deleted so my comments don’t apply to the current 27 and 28…
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Drake3

@Reasoned Mind

“…to take your stuff and render it unsellable, trade it around…”

Geez, for the millionth time, it isn’t taking, it is copying.

If they could manage to make free copies of everything I own and give them to everyone in the world, I would be happy!
michael8124

“Petter’s final point is possibly the most important one. He believes that the war against file-sharing will lead to a technological arms race as Internet users find new ways to hide their activities.”

When it comes to the industry going against file-sharers, the phrase “bringing a knife to a gun fight” comes to mind.
4nd

@Reasoned Mind

And there’s a reasonable chance of certainty it’s not me at #7 exclaiming WOOT PIRACY SUCKZ.

So you’re saying it could be you?

but government is probing ways to make the internet a reflection of real life, with all the control and acccountability for every product in EVERY digital industry that is here now or will be in the future.

Which will never happen. You can’t have the benefits of the digital with the restriction of the digital. There will always be filesharing, right up until the point where all computers die.

I, for one, just don’t think government gives up on this, and eventually the network will be a police state and the punishments will water your eyes.

And what if you live in a country where governments actually listen to their people, like they’re supposed to?

But all that is fine by me. I pay for all my stuff.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Pirates couldn’t give a damn about “fair.” Pirates just want to take everything “free” but the free only works one way.

Nice job on the generalizations- are you running out of actual arguments? I very much believe in “fair,” so stop making generalizations about filesharers.

Reasoned Mind, you are the most intelligent, most articulate, most insightful troll I have ever seen. But that still makes you a troll.
Reasoned Mind

They’ll do it anyway. Cost/benefit should be recognized as being much more than simply monetary, as it is about far, far, more than petty file sharing.
Jasper van Weerd

So, if the ISP’s give 200 mil to the industry, the spare 165mil each year, and the music industry can stop chasing us…
Dingo_RG

In the 70′s and 80′s decades a lot of copyrighted music in a commercial scale was SHARED by millions and millions of persons around the world, and the record labels lived with that reality doing millions of dollars, without complains; and the practice was accepted and NEVER was this called piracy. This was called SHARING.

Now, when the persons do EXACTLY that via internet then this is called automatically piracy by a small minority of executives from the record labels, Why?

Because the internet proves that the actual record labels as distribution medium are redundant and obsolete in this digital age… hard truth for the record labels who don’t want to evolve and adapt.

All this whole tragedy and circus about filesharing is simply a conspiracy of lies from the record labels for taking away fundamental civil rights from the people and convert it in a monetary business; that’s all.

In essence, saying that filesharing of copyrighted material is piracy is the same as saying that all the persons on the world (without exception) are criminals; because all the people has shared copyrighted material with others in some time, independently if they are aware of that or not, and I repeat, massive filesharing of copyrighted songs was before of the invention of the internet by more than 30 years a reality, and the record labels never had problems with that, and also this didn’t affect their massive profits.

Moreover, there doesn’t exist any law on the world which prohibits TO SHARE my possessions (private property) with others by any medium, and also, there doesn’t exist any reason now for giving to music or movies a different treatment, that’s THE TRUTH.

I bet that the actual record labels would have agreed totally in supporting to the old gas companies who on purpose were boycotting the experiments of Thomas Alva Edison for trying of avoiding the development and invention of the electric lamp which showed that the light from gas lamps for illuminating the cities already was not necessary anymore, thus destroying the old monopolies from gas companies.

For the record labels would have been cool that, as also destroying the internet which does to the actual record labels as distribution medium obsolete and unneccesary.
Pioneer

I think Reasoned Mind is either getting lazy with his/her posts or is working with less material. Regardless, allow me to pose this question to you:

I enjoyed a song from a film or some other source. It turns out there is no soundtrack available, and the song is too obscure to get from a music store. You search a torrent site as a last resort and find it. Do you get it from there, the only place you’ve been able to find it?

I do agree with you on some points, I think a lot of people use the ‘file-sharing is caring’ mentality as an excuse for being a tight arse and enjoying the company of other aforementioned tight arses. But there is another kind of file-sharer, the one who cannot get obscure things anywhere else.
Mr. Briggs

@49 (4nd):

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Well, there’s got to be room for about 40% of the American population, so…

@52 (Dingo_RG):

Moreover, there doesn’t exist any law on the world which prohibits TO SHARE my possessions (private property) with others by any medium, and also, there doesn’t exist any reason now for giving to music or movies a different treatment, that’s THE TRUTH.

Well, there is the “law” of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, but if you want to talk other laws, I’m open…
Reasoned mind

I don’t like piracy, but I do like fondling myself around schools and parks.
PetFoodz.Info

Well said Boss @ BT ISP..
Dingo_RG

54 (Mr. Briggs) said:
“Well, there is the “law” of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, but if you want to talk other laws, I’m open…”
——-

Well, I don’t know any law on the world which prohibits to me explicitly to share my possessions (private property) with others, at least in my country and many OTHERS. That I know the only persons who don’t respect or recognize the goods (private property) legitimately acquired of the persons are the communists. Are you a communist?.

The ownership is the basic and inalienable right that any person has of using and disposing of their goods legitimately acquired (private property) of an exclusive way; and this inalienable right is above of any law, including copyright law.

In essence, you are saying that DMCA (USA copyright law) don’t respect that, then, this is an illegal and worthless law which is against the inalienable and universal right of ownership, because any law can’t say to you as disposing of your private property, nor to allow that others force or say to you as using it, these are the real facts.

Moreover, you talk of DMCA as if this was some type of universal truth or something. But NOT, this is only USA law, which applies only in USA and in weak countries where the people don’t know as defending themselves, for ignorance reasons, laziness or any; and succumb to foreign pressures and laws.

Particularly, I ONLY recognize the copyright laws of my country; which permit the exchange of copyrighted material with others for personal use and not for profit; as in the MAJORITY of the countries, you see. Whether you like it or not, that’s your problem; and I simply don’t care.

But guess that… Many countries (including my country) don’t care at all about illegal and worthless USA copyright law, which is the unique on the world which openly violates and doesn’t recognize the rights of ownership of the persons.
LMFAO

@ Dingo_RG
Here is an earlier response I had fron “Reasoned Mind” on the subject of mixtapes…

“And you see an equivalence between making an analog mixtape in real time and Jammie saving herself 10’s of thousands of dollars in purchase prices while offering thousands of songs up for piracy in her Kaaza shared folder, do you? That’s the same act for you?
Really?”

from “Pirated Artist Orders Police Raid on Sony Music Office” comment #66

So don’t expect anything reasonable from this overpaid corporate shill with a thesaurus!

And “Reasoned Mush” you never did answer my question. Have you ever recorded any program from TV and watched it later? Because that would make you a thief like your calling us.
GrX

Probably this will be moderated like all my comments lol but here goes.

The goverment as it is now has to find over 200 billion pounds and where is that money coming from .. yep the health sectors and schools.

so there now taking back all the money from the nhs, and schools to cover the funding problem brought on by the banks, so that mean another 131,000 out of work un-employed since the government has to make cuts somewhere

so now they are saying its now going to cost them over 1 million a day to put forward a proposal that just clearly wont work it just gets more and more bizarre each and every day

so then isps then lose their customers as lets face it the only reason customers of theirs want and have high speed broadband is to download since thats all we need speed for really and thats the fact of it.

isp’s lose millions goverment loses millions then at the end of it goveremnt then thinks hmm we have to make up for the millions and billions on top of the billions they already need to make up

where do you think all this money is going to come from to fund all this lol they going to be printing money 24/7 soon every second of the day and it still wont make up for the losses this stupid goveremnt has lost us.

the whole country is stuffed.. all we have left freedom wise enough to see us through this awful time is free content without that free content we would have nothing at all hell people cant afford to eat as it is now never mind spending 15 quid on some stupid 2 disc cd or 30 quid on some stupid hi-def movie.

were all doomed.
LMFAO

Don’t worry “Reasoned Twit” I don’t actually expect you to answer my question because that would prove you to be the hypocrite that that you are!
Matt

“That’s around 10p per day to defeat a £1m a day system that isn’t even in place yet. Something doesn’t add up.”

That paragraph is a bit disingenuous. The £1m a day figure applies to every ISP put together, any given ISP will spend less than this, and still they are not spending that amount per customer. To make sense you would need to compare £1m a day to 10p per filesharer per day.
LMFAO

Of course you realize that by not responding to my summons/question you WILL be found “guilty by default” as so many of our brothers in arms have. So it would be in your best interest to give some response, even to tell me shove it, otherwise, well…
LMFAO

Just another quote from the same post earlier from “Reasoned Mind” “Pirated Artist Orders Police Raid on Sony Music Office” comment #66

Quote “I don’t work in the industry and I don’t have a favored cause here.”

Seems to disagree with your comment @#29
“My money is on government and industry in the long run.”
Reasoned Mind

lol, let me try being ‘Reasoned Mind’

troll this , troll that.

incomprehensible argument this, illogical statement that.

That is all.
yes.

“Music industry losses” do not affect most musicians.
Anonymous

hmm….

Makes perfect sense!
a/s/l

all that article just for a measly advert for swissvpn? you’re selling out torrentfreak D:
tonyj

Who is Lily Allen? I she a lawyer or something?
The Pibbler

As a writer, I can say that if people go through so much trouble to read/listen to what I create, I’d be honored.
The Pibbler

Er… That was @Reasoned Mind
LMFAO

You give homage to someone who everyone on here calls a troll, just what kind of writer are you?
anon

Simple, for every £1 extra i have to pay for my broadband because the music industry want my isp to police it then for every extra £1 i will spend £2 less buying music.
Stuff them.
Monster

This is getting from funny to a nightmare.
Our free speach, freedom of information and freedom to learn is guaranteed by the Constitution of every country on this globe. You can’ t sue people, because they are trying to learn. This is like the inquisition prosecuting the scientists.
We will never evolve this way.
Money isn’t everything in life!
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Afficianado

However, according to Jupiter Reseach, whose figures the BPI uses…

You pays yer money, they, after painstaking research, disregard all the evidence, and produce whatever result you want them to. Statistician merenaries
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Big Jump Down

74

I understand what you are saying. But contrary to popular opinion, properly done stats cannot be made to say anything you want.

In fact, I would suggest that properly done stats are our biggest and best formal weapon against the copyright industry. Their ‘stats’ based claims are so dodgy and hyperbolic that an average second year stats student should be able to be tear them to pieces in their sleep.
gorehound

all of you must always spread the word …….
1.NO BUYING CORP MUSIC
2.NO BUYING ANY RIAA SIGNED,ETC BANDSA & LABELS
3.IF YOU MUST OWN MUSIC BUY USED
4.SUPPORT THE LITTLE LOCAL MUSICIAN & INDY NON RIAA BANDS/LASBELS

We must all work together to bring these big asshole ripoff studios down to the ground and we can do it.
Anti Establishment

Reasoned mind pays for everything he says, prossies must love him.
Reasoned Mind

I must absolutely insist that Torrentfreak require registration on comments. That way it will also be easier for the proper authorities to round all you lame pirates up and hang you all by your scrotums. Also, I would like to have the control of the internet turned over to me, no later than end of this month!

This business of trolling a troll is not going to work!!! I am so fumingly pissed off at you all right now!!

And for the record – I am not schizophrenic! All the voices in my head agree on that!
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The doctor

@ Reasoned Mind

So what is the answer? In my mind it is actually pretty simple.

Since the industry business models are really based around the Western economies because of the potential profits, then my simplified strategy is thus:

Music, TV, Movie, Gaming studios, Indie groups, independent artists etc all make their works freely available online to be shared via P2P, or whichever technology surpasses it with a unique country specific, yet global tracker hard wired in.

Apply a certain value of digital rights tax to all monthly internet accounts to users in every country. This may need to be staggered for various regions, but then artists from those regions earn staggered royalties as a result.

Each country would pass this digital rights tax to a central organisation such as the “United Nation of Internet”, who would in turn then distribute digital fees to the various studios, artists etc based upon the number of downloads/ hits on the tracker.

TV fees etc in various countries like the UK/ South Africa/ NZ would then be scrapped and TV moved pretty much entirely online.

Copyright holders also come to the party and reduce the length of copyright because the community keeps these files alive using their internet resources, due to the massive “wagging tail” of file sharing to something along the lines of 10yrs for games, 20yrs TV shows, 30yrs Movies and 40yrs Music & books.

And there are no restrictions upon how you can transfer, backup, copy, play the media etc afterwards.

Sure this is only a simplified outline with a lot of potential technical bugs to be ironed out, but at the end of the day it gives everyone essentially what they want, but at the same time both sides have to COMPROMISE.

Artists coming from outside of these countries can still be recognised and paid by the “UNOI” for their downloads.

The big studios can then spend their time lobbying countries that haven’t signed up to the open internet format, most of which are places where true pirating of market place CD’s, dvd’s take place now anyway.

The UNOI is non profit, 50% funded by digital rights revenue and 50% by studios, but run by a group of internet companies from each region, with open accounting on the net. Every TV show, song, book, album, artist, movie submitted to the tracking system pays a nominal license fee to join the potential shared pool revenue, which helps fund the above.

Suddenly everything becomes worldwide release, at same global rates and the studios etc only need to maintain a small website where they can initially release the file to the web and the P2P system will take over from there. People can then download from there, or join in to a swarm on another tracker site.

There you go everyone, now get out there and make it happen, plus iron out the tech bugs to prevent bots downloading Lily Allen 600 million times per month.
Talorthain

I always remember that the record labels / game makers saying the prices are that high because of piracy. So the price inlcludes an element of the money they claim they loose.

So when some systems came out (namely cartidge system) did the price not go down but up. They changed it to manifacturing costs.

Manificaturing costs went down and they altered the reason.

Its all about money and them justifying the cost, if piracy was stopped it would then be retailers that sell the product cheap, or cause of sales from other countrys etc. (its why you have region coding on DVDs)

I do buy products, when they are good, if they are worth buying. Others end up in the recycle bin once I realise they are crap.
Anonymous

Isn’t Lily Allen that stupid bitch that is always drunk and naked?

Talentless…
Talorthain

TO add to what the DR said, looking at recents stats if every internet connection paid £5 a month as part of the subscription, it would equate to £96,000,000,000 roughly a year give or take a million.

I personally would pay that for free access to content of a decent quality.
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The doctor

@ Talorthian

That is the entire point. I believe everyone is going about this wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users

Check out the number of Net users world wide. This could easily work after the tech bugs are sorted out.
Anonymous

lost sale’s my arse, if you carn’t download it that dos’ent mean you go and buy it, in the old days you would record it of the radio and try and stop recording before the dj spock LOL, remember holding your finger over the pause button trying to guss when to press it “great fun” i had loads of stuff taped of the radio i used to play them going to work in my HA vauxhall viva, those were the days before greed set in i wonder if any of these fat cats ever did this when they were young, GET A LIFE, nothing has changed.
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Ollie

I fully expect the next response to be the music/movie/TV industries telling us that the cost to ISPs to enforce their rules is part of the cost of illegal file sharing, ergo everybody needs to realize they’re going to pay one way or another, so it’s time to give up on sharing and just bend over and play by the industry’s rules…Reasoned Mind usually is the one saying “you pirates made it come to this, you’re making it cost more money than it would have if you had just obeyed the law”. All this does is make us all fortify our positions that much more…the genie isn’t just out of the bottle, the bottle shattered long ago, there’s no going back. As long as they keep going down this road, they are the enemy. They’ve got to make the best of it, accept the existence of file sharing, learn from it and find ways to monetize it as best they can. They have options – look at the iTunes Store! If from the outset they had embraced that concept as well as the business models that they destroyed on the old MP3.com, Napster, AudioGalaxy, etc., how much money would they have raked in by now, and how many loyal customers would they have instead of enemies who turned to file sharing? It’s not too late for future generations but they’ve already said F-U to this one, so I’m never supporting them again. Never.
LMFAO

@the doctor
Fantastic idea, I personally would not have a problem with your proposal, it would allow me to listen/watch/play media without paying for something that sucks. If I don’t like it I can just delete it.

Seems like a good outline for a plan that could work if it were handled properly.

So Reasoned Mind, what say you to this proposal? Show us your with your superior intellect and decidedly pro-industry outlook, whats wrong with it, even though megacorp could make a boat load of money at it. Give us your “Reasoned Mind”!
A-Lyric.com

I don’t anyone seriously believes that a P2P file equals a lost sale. Free music has become an important part of every serious band and label. The distribution of free music is also a strong promotional channel. But how about giving the bands the choice to do it by limiting the free-for-all approach?

As it is, all the distribution happens on other people’s sites and the only people benefiting from it are the ISPs due to increased bandwidth sales.

But I have to point out that a lot of the comments here refer to greed on the part of an industry that has lost 50% of its revenue in 10 years. Compare the price of one track on eMusic.com with the price of a single in the seventies. 7Digital.com has loads of albums for £5-7. Plus, when people are given the opportunity of paying whatever they feel, they overwhelmingly don’t.
Lord HAAAha

The cost of complience is transfered to the state and other third parties and the industry does not pay how about that you freaking tax payers why cant you get this across to the political midgets that you rely upon?
Hmmmmmm? Wellll? You LIKE taxes you want to pay and pay more and more. Forget you plans for a house or this weekend your money will be supporting copyright! Hooray! Remember you are responsible for allowing this to happen to you all for believing you have to let this happen and you have no power thats right you media hipno toads got to sit there and let it happen HaHAHA! File sharing Loooosers cant become politically involved. This is a blatant attack on the ignorant and all those who believe that they are powerless. What do you say to that?
Lord HAAAha

Has anyone considered the possibility that VPN connections could be purchased and run by the likes of RIAA or run by insiders knowing that they can profit by piracy one way or another? That is not to say that that is the situation however paranoia is the fear based on unfounded delusional persecution Hmmm unfounded. Well HA HA no unfounded fear here!
Lord HAAAha

Check this out

Apply a certain value of digital rights tax to all monthly internet accounts to users in every country. This may need to be staggered for various regions, but then artists from those regions earn staggered royalties as a result.

Jesus Christ Help up in our time of need Ahmen.

Ok financial slavery for ever from an industry that believes in increasing profit every year forever now the governments of the world will be a slave of the RIAA etc. Hmmm may be all copyright holders will get a share? I should hurry up and copyright some thousand hours of white noise and get my share if the money is shared proportional to my recordings copyrighted Hahaha.
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kether

What a sad little country the UK is now, from the stupid speed bumps and CCTV cameras all over the place to the selfish tw*ts in all the places of power. We always have to move at the slowest persons speed. The UK is now a NO-FUN ZONE. Sh*t Education, Sh*t Hospitals, Sh*t Supermarkets selling us Sh*t food, Sh*t Night Clubs, Tax Tax Tax. It doesn’t make any difference if it does cost more money than the music and film industry loose they will still do it cos the tax payer will pay as always it’s not their money so they don’t give a toss. They are all safe in their big houses, with their police force to protect them FOAD.
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