App Developer Fights Pirate With Politeness

Ernesto
May 19, 2011
196
app,
xSellize
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Most major music and movie industry outfits go out guns blazing against those who dare to copy their content. They often label these people, who also make up a great portion of their legitimate customers, as thieves and criminals. App developer and owner of the website Word of the Day decided to take another route, and crushed a potential pirate with politeness instead.

Piracy presents content creators with a mind-twisting dilemma. No one wants to see the work they have to live off being copied for free, but in today’s age not being pirated is probably even worse. Being overlooked in this way generally means that the public is not interested in what you have to offer.

The situation gets even more complicated when one realizes that ‘pirates’ are often legitimate customers too. As previously highlighted, music pirates are the ones who spend the most money on legitimate music. In a way, speaking out against pirates is speaking out against one’s biggest fans.

So how does a content creator approach such a multi-layered species when he or she spots one in the wild?

If we look at Chris Baker, app developer and owner of the The Fucking Word of the Day website, confrontational politeness might turn out to be a good choice. Yesterday, Chris spotted a potential pirate on the xSellize forums, who posted the following request:

“Can someone please crack The F-ing Word of the Day app. Please.”

Although many content creators would have cringed upon reading the message, perhaps tempted to shout the pirate down, Chris opted for a more peaceful reply to the poster “HiDefinition”.

“Hello! I’m the creator of the *** Word of the Day website and more particularly the F-ing Word of the Day App. First of all, this is a huge compliment! As a person who pirates content, I’ve always placed the moment people are pirating MY goods as the exact time of my arrival, as it were.”

Chris Baker goes on to explain that, although he has a decent job in New York, he’s by no means rich. The app and website are his pet projects and he works on them during his free time in the hope that the public might learn something. Then he continues with giving the prospective pirate his virtual blessing.

“What’s my point in all this? Go ahead and pirate the app. It cost me 1500 bucks to have programmed. It’s not even a month’s rent for me. But if you think the site is cool, and you want to pay for one eighth of a Stella Artois for me, hook me up with 99 cents. The rapture will be here soon, I could use the drink.”

The above might not have been the response HiDefinition had been hoping for, but it did make an impact. Suddenly, the prospect of getting a pirated App without paying didn’t seem as appealing as it did before.

HiDefinition replied:

“Wow, I wasn’t expecting the developer to comment. Sorry, about that. You know I was only looking to get the IPA for free only because I have no credit, credit cards, or any kind of banking services. However, your attitude has seal[ed] the deal for me. It might end up costing me a couple extra dollars in nominal fees to figure out how to pay for it but I’d be glad to contribute towards that Stella fund raiser you’ve got going on.

“Besides, I really appreciate your response and I fully support your work. I hope no one actually cracks your app [and] for sake of respect, consider my request revoked. Thanks again Chris and have a good one bro!”

It appears that with his polite reply, Chris eliminated at least one potential pirate. But that wasn’t the end of the matter. Instead of eagerly waiting for HiDefinition’s 99 cents, Chris offered to buy the App for him, asking for a positive rating in return.

Chris then concluded:

“I hope this comment thread goes down as one of the more unexpected things that happens to you online. I like the unexpected. And I like making people happy, even when something stupid like learning vocabulary is involved.”

The thread is memorable for sure, and shows that the blazing guns strategy might not always be the best one, especially not for indie content creators. This doesn’t necessarily mean that ‘pirates’ should be cuddled, but it might be a good idea to try a more balanced response every now and then.

TorrentFreak got in touch with Chris, who shared his remarkable encounter on Reddit, and he told us that he expected people to pirate his app and that it’s not a problem.

“I knew people would try to pirate my app and I’d rather have people trying to pirate my app than not pirate it. If no one is trying to pirate you, you’re irrelevant,” Chris said.

In fact, Chris admits that he too has pirated software since he was eight or nine. Whether it is the moral thing to do is not up to the developers he believes, it’s something every ‘pirate’ has to decide for him or herself.

“The morality of pirating an app will be a topic that gets debated forever,” Chris told us. “If a starving kid steals a loaf of bread to feed himself, is that wrong? If a starving designer pirates a copy of a 700 dollar version of Photoshop, is that wrong?”

“A creative storyteller could produce narratives that make you see both sides to each story,” he concludes.

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Ansem

Baker seems like a smart guy. Of course you should pay for it if you can afford it and have the means to do so (often a credit card is required).

““If a starving kid steals a loaf of bread to feed himself, is that wrong? If a starving designer pirates a copy of a 700 dollar version of Photoshop, is that wrong?”” – I’d say stealing is wrong, yes, but the ones who have should have enough sense to share with the ones who need in the first place.. On the other hand, if the starving kid was to clone the loaf of bread.. ;)
- Whatever
  
  Possibly smart but more importantly, at least not a hypocrit like the “i now know better than i when i was 13″ person.
  
  Took a while to get the right keyword but found it:
  http://torrentfreak.com/record-label-boss-responds-to-warez-allegations-110415/
  
  I can imagine that this developer probably didn’t steal from convenience stores.
Anonymous

I have an idea. Realize that being creative & innovative is Artistic & you shouldn’t charge money for Art in the first place. It demeans your craft.

I’m a musician, I happily give away everything I do for free. Check out my Blog if you like hip-hop-esque music & instrumentals. Share & Share-a-like licensed. Sharing is caring. I only make what the ads on the page pull in. That’s more than enough for a hobby. BECAUSE ART IS NOT A JOB!
- Anon
  
  “BECAUSE ART IS NOT A JOB!”
  
  Well yeah, perhaps not the stuff you have to give away. But try telling that to the 120,000 members of the Screen Actors Guild. ;-)
- Anon
  
  “BECAUSE ART IS NOT A JOB!”
  
  Well yeah, perhaps not the stuff you have to give away. But try telling that to the 120,000 members of the Screen Actors Guild. ;-)
  - Anonymous
    
    The Film Actors Guild (FAG), is just a bunch of pompous arrogant actors who believe they’re the best at what they do. In reality, they just have the highest promoted names. That’s everything that is wrong with the industry. Not enough diversity. Right now there is some kid struggling to make it in Hollywood, living off of scraps who is probably more talented than the Jim Carreys, Matt Damons & Ben Afflecks of the Film Actors Guild.
    
    And I don’t have to give anything away. I make music for me. I share because I care. If you like it, great, if you don’t, what have you lost? 2 minutes of your time? Better than $14 on a hunk of plastic that you were never going to use anyway after you ripped it to MP3s.
    - Ugly American
      
      “(FAG)” – that works on soooooooo many levels… <3
      
      If Hollywood were this creative, I might actually buy a plastic disc – and share infinite copies with the world. Up your ass, MAFIAA!
    - Donotreply
      
      Actually they were
      
      FrostyC shamelessly ripped it from this movie:
      
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      Okay, so you’re a “musician.” So be it. Why so bitter? Honestly, man, I guarantee if someone came to you with a serious offer to support your music with wages enough to give you a comfortable living, you’d take it. Why? Because it’s a chance to devote yourself full time doing what you love. You create for the love, that’s great! Being able to spend most or all of your waking minutes improving your craft because someone thinks it;s worth paying for…well, now…that’s icing on the cake.
      
      I don’t understand your bitterness against an entire industry. There are plenty of different artists and genres out there to be heard (read, or whatever). There is indeed a host of diversity, contrary to what you so boldly stated. YOU are one of them, yes?
      
      If I like your music, I wouldn’t mind paying $14 for a hunk of plastic. Barring that, I wouldn’t mind paying $100 to see you perform. Oh, wait…my bad! Yous aid artists should create and offer their stuff for free. In that case, I WOULD mind… LOL
    - Ugly American
      
      “Okay, so you’re a “musician.” So be it. Why so bitter? Honestly, man, I guarantee if someone came to you with a serious offer to support your music with wages enough to give you a comfortable living, you’d take it. Why? Because it’s a chance to devote yourself full time doing what you love. You create for the love, that’s great! Being able to spend most or all of your waking minutes improving your craft because someone thinks it;s worth paying for…well, now…that’s icing on the cake.”
      
      A few points you’re missing… First, a genuine artist creates out of love / devotion to that art and probably has a day job to survive. I speak from experience. “A serious offer” = selling one’s soul to the devil – a genuine artist would not have commercial aspirations in the first place or wish to make such a bargain. Secondly, if he / she possessed such devotion and / or talent, they wouldn’t need to sit around all day “creating” – that’s not how inspiration works no matter how many pesos fall out of the sky. Thirdly, such “offers” = $$$ for labels, not for artists – they earn $$$ from live performances, merchandising, endorsements and the occasional freelance hooker. Or something.
      
      “I don’t understand your bitterness against an entire industry.”
      
      I certainly do – ask anyone who is wise to RIAA’s scam and you’ll get it eventually. Hang in there – true wisdom is afoot!
      
      “There are plenty of different artists and genres out there to be heard (read, or whatever). There is indeed a host of diversity, contrary to what you so boldly stated. YOU are one of them, yes?”
      
      It seems you’ve missed another point…
      
      “If I like your music, I wouldn’t mind paying $14 for a hunk of plastic.”
      
      You should because $13.95 will go directly to the label and you’d be fvcking that artist without anal lube – buy a bloody t-shirt if you really like him. Heck, buy two – give one to your girlfriend. Btw, what in fvck are you still doing with “hunks of plastic” in 2011? Do you still collect 8-track tapes too? Buggy whips? Used condoms? All completely fvcking worthless – like 99% of all “entertainment.”
      
      “Barring that, I wouldn’t mind paying $100 to see you perform.”
      
      Now you’re talking sense! But stay away from that hunk of plastic – it’s a tool of the devil. Repent, sinner!
      
      “Oh, wait…my bad! Yous aid artists should create and offer their stuff for free.”
      
      Seems logical enough. Let the marketplace decide what it’s worth – if anything. If it’s dogshit, you’ll be rewarded accordingly – if it’s an eargasm, $$$ will cum your way… <3
      
      "In that case, I WOULD mind… LOL"
      
      LOL? This is serious business – let's keep things in perspective! ;-)
    - Anon
      
      Foolish UGLY American. By your ignorant $$$ assessment, Warhol, Picasso and Basquiat–ALL ABOUT THE MONEY….. aren’t true artists.
      
      Leave it to an American to feel confident only HE can properly define artist.
    - Ugly American
      
      “Foolish UGLY American.”
      
      There’s no such animal. You fail – in the ugliest way.
      
      “By your ignorant $$$ assessment, Warhol, Picasso and Basquiat–ALL ABOUT THE MONEY….. aren’t true artists.”
      
      Warhol and Picasso?! LMFAO – two fvcking frauds right there. Any imbecile can slap a few labels from cans of soup around and call it “art.” Picasso was a demented cretin without a shred of talent – if you stuck a paintbrush up your ass, you could probably paint better. Basquiat? Sounds like an exotic fruit – or should I say, fruiter.
      
      “Leave it to an American to feel confident only HE can properly define artist.”
      
      This is my world – democracy can take it in the ass. And so can you. :-*
    - Ugly American
      
      “Foolish UGLY American.”
      
      There’s no such animal. You fail – in the ugliest way.
      
      “By your ignorant $$$ assessment, Warhol, Picasso and Basquiat–ALL ABOUT THE MONEY….. aren’t true artists.”
      
      Warhol and Picasso?! LMFAO – two fvcking frauds right there. Any imbecile can slap a few labels from cans of soup around and call it “art.” Picasso was a demented cretin without a shred of talent – if you stuck a paintbrush up your ass, you could probably paint better. Basquiat? Sounds like an exotic fruit – or should I say, fruiter.
      
      “Leave it to an American to feel confident only HE can properly define artist.”
      
      This is my world – democracy can take it in the ass. And so can you. :-*
    - Whatever
      
      Paintings only get sold once….
    - Roller
      
      You will “sell your soul” for the right price, and so will he.You can keep pretending otherwise all you want.nobody’s buying it.
    - Ryan_Javery
      
      few points you’re missing… First, a genuine artist creates out of love / devotion to that art and probably has a day job to survive. I speak from experience. “A serious offer” = selling one’s soul to the devil – a genuine artist would not have commercial aspirations in the first place or wish to make such a bargain. Secondly, if he / she possessed such devotion and / or talent, they wouldn’t need to sit around all day “creating” – that’s not how inspiration works no matter how many pesos fall out of the sky. Thirdly, such “offers” = $$$ for labels, not for artists – they earn $$$ from live performances, merchandising, endorsements and the occasional freelance hooker. Or something.
      
      Yeah that might be true, but a serious offer does not = selling one’s soul. I’m a musican. That is what in almost every minute of my free time. That said I have never been able to put my stuff online because I can’t afford good mics. I can’t afford a good amp. Hell I don’t have the cash I need to get a drum set despite that fact that I’ve wanting one for years now. If some in the music industry heard me playing on my usual street corner and offered me a chance to put my music in the hands of fans I would jump at the chance. Also point your missing even if you can afford studio time, even if can afford all the gear you need to be a good musician, you NEED a label to go on tour. You need a label to hook up for merch deals endorsements and all that other crap. No one takes a labelless artist seriously. That way every musicans who doesn’t want a day job needs to sign a deal with someone. Also their are plenty of groups that maintain a high level of creative control when they get sign. I know them personally.
      
      Don’t get me wrong I pirate music. I pirate music out the ass. Still whenever I have the money I pay for a C.D. I really liked. Even if I already have most or all of the songs. Because I understand that a musician needs a paycheck, and them being able to devote their time to music, to tours, towards stupid corporate meet and greets that pay for the silly things like production value, (which can make or break an album), means good things for the consumer.
    - Ugly American
      
      “Yeah that might be true, but a serious offer does not = selling one’s soul.”
      
      It does if you go with a RIAA / (major) label.
      
      “I’m a musican.”
      
      So am I – however, I would never view it as an occupation. Art = Art – not “business.”
      
      “That is what in almost every minute of my free time.”
      
      ?
      
      “That said I have never been able to put my stuff online because I can’t afford good mics.”
      
      You don’t need them – perhaps you should seek inexpensive alternatives.
      
      “I can’t afford a good amp.”
      
      Sure you can. Buy used – my 100w Marshall cost a fraction of what you’d pay for a new one and it still sounds great after nearly 10 years of constant abuse. I beat the living fvck out of it – not something I would do with a new / expensive product.
      
      “Hell I don’t have the cash I need to get a drum set despite that fact that I’ve wanting one for years now.”
      
      Use a DAW with samples / VSTIs, etc. – cheaper than dirt and the flexibility is positively orgasmic… <3
      
      "If some in the music industry heard me playing on my usual street corner and offered me a chance to put my music in the hands of fans I would jump at the chance."
      
      The devil is in the details – that RIAA contract could fvck you for life. You could do your own promotion on the internets, record / master / mix / edit @ home and rip your own CDs. All you need is one decent computer + a few easy programs. ProTools = unnecessary.
      
      "Also point your missing even if you can afford studio time, even if can afford all the gear you need to be a good musician, you NEED a label to go on tour."
      
      No, you don't – you can hire someone to do that if you can't or don't know how. You definitely DON'T need a label to tour / perform live.
      
      "You need a label to hook up for merch deals endorsements and all that other crap."
      
      Wrong – you or your representative can handle ALL commercial matters.
      
      "No one takes a labelless artist seriously."
      
      Hogwash – but one can easily create a label "on paper" which is completely separate from you / your band and the costs involved are rather minimal. Own your masters, lad – I wouldn't trust my own mother with those.
      
      "That way every musicans who doesn't want a day job needs to sign a deal with someone."
      
      Wrong – if your noise doesn't sell, the label can (and will) drop you eventually. A contract is far from a guarantee. If your commercial aspirations are that high and you'd like to avoid honest work that badly, I suggest you rob banks. Or join the MAFIAA – either way, you'll earn a great deal without really doing anything. Don't expect to be a Rock Star – you'll have a better chance hitting the fvcking lottery.
      
      "Also their are plenty of groups that maintain a high level of creative control when they get sign. I know them personally."
      
      So do I, lad – let me tell you something. Complete artistic freedom for a signed artist = a myth. External interests will always dominate (to some degree) unless you go it alone. The current flavor of the week will always be pushed down your throat – established formulas = HUGE dollars for labels and they could give a lesser fvck about your art.
      
      "Don't get me wrong I pirate music. I pirate music out the ass."
      
      Lossless, I hope – MP3s take it in the ass. Stick with FLAC. <3
      
      "Still whenever I have the money I pay for a C.D. I really liked."
      
      Ditto, unless it's a RIAA "product" – TOTAL BOYCOTT on my end.
      However, I have no problem supporting certain "underground" labels which value / promote artistic freedom. RIAA labels do not.
      
      "Even if I already have most or all of the songs."
      
      Buy a band shirt – at least that artist will actually keep something.
      
      "Because I understand that a musician needs a paycheck, and them being able to devote their time to music, to tours, towards stupid corporate meet and greets that pay for the silly things like production value, (which can make or break an album), means good things for the consumer."
      
      Lad, you haven't a clue – again, you can do your own promotion or hire someone to do it for you. Secondly, you don't need a recording studio or recoding "experts" – I get more satisfaction doing EVERYTHING myself and the final result is exactly what I want. Total control. Complete artistic freedom. Technology is your friend – embrace it before it strangles you… :-*
    - Ryan_Javery
      
      few points you’re missing… First, a genuine artist creates out of love / devotion to that art and probably has a day job to survive. I speak from experience. “A serious offer” = selling one’s soul to the devil – a genuine artist would not have commercial aspirations in the first place or wish to make such a bargain. Secondly, if he / she possessed such devotion and / or talent, they wouldn’t need to sit around all day “creating” – that’s not how inspiration works no matter how many pesos fall out of the sky. Thirdly, such “offers” = $$$ for labels, not for artists – they earn $$$ from live performances, merchandising, endorsements and the occasional freelance hooker. Or something.
      
      Yeah that might be true, but a serious offer does not = selling one’s soul. I’m a musican. That is what in almost every minute of my free time. That said I have never been able to put my stuff online because I can’t afford good mics. I can’t afford a good amp. Hell I don’t have the cash I need to get a drum set despite that fact that I’ve wanting one for years now. If some in the music industry heard me playing on my usual street corner and offered me a chance to put my music in the hands of fans I would jump at the chance. Also point your missing even if you can afford studio time, even if can afford all the gear you need to be a good musician, you NEED a label to go on tour. You need a label to hook up for merch deals endorsements and all that other crap. No one takes a labelless artist seriously. That way every musicans who doesn’t want a day job needs to sign a deal with someone. Also their are plenty of groups that maintain a high level of creative control when they get sign. I know them personally.
      
      Don’t get me wrong I pirate music. I pirate music out the ass. Still whenever I have the money I pay for a C.D. I really liked. Even if I already have most or all of the songs. Because I understand that a musician needs a paycheck, and them being able to devote their time to music, to tours, towards stupid corporate meet and greets that pay for the silly things like production value, (which can make or break an album), means good things for the consumer.
    - Ryan_Javery
      
      few points you’re missing… First, a genuine artist creates out of love / devotion to that art and probably has a day job to survive. I speak from experience. “A serious offer” = selling one’s soul to the devil – a genuine artist would not have commercial aspirations in the first place or wish to make such a bargain. Secondly, if he / she possessed such devotion and / or talent, they wouldn’t need to sit around all day “creating” – that’s not how inspiration works no matter how many pesos fall out of the sky. Thirdly, such “offers” = $$$ for labels, not for artists – they earn $$$ from live performances, merchandising, endorsements and the occasional freelance hooker. Or something.
      
      Yeah that might be true, but a serious offer does not = selling one’s soul. I’m a musican. That is what in almost every minute of my free time. That said I have never been able to put my stuff online because I can’t afford good mics. I can’t afford a good amp. Hell I don’t have the cash I need to get a drum set despite that fact that I’ve wanting one for years now. If some in the music industry heard me playing on my usual street corner and offered me a chance to put my music in the hands of fans I would jump at the chance. Also point your missing even if you can afford studio time, even if can afford all the gear you need to be a good musician, you NEED a label to go on tour. You need a label to hook up for merch deals endorsements and all that other crap. No one takes a labelless artist seriously. That way every musicans who doesn’t want a day job needs to sign a deal with someone. Also their are plenty of groups that maintain a high level of creative control when they get sign. I know them personally.
      
      Don’t get me wrong I pirate music. I pirate music out the ass. Still whenever I have the money I pay for a C.D. I really liked. Even if I already have most or all of the songs. Because I understand that a musician needs a paycheck, and them being able to devote their time to music, to tours, towards stupid corporate meet and greets that pay for the silly things like production value, (which can make or break an album), means good things for the consumer.
    - Lolol
      
      Actually, the publishers make contracts with the artists.
      
      The artist is fully aware that each sold copy gives him/her almost nothing. But that’s compensated by the contract signed before.
    - Donotreply
      
      ‘But that’s compensated by the contract signed before.’
      
      False.
      http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
    - Danny
      
      Most members of the Screen Actors Guild -are- struggling to make it in Hollywood and living off of scraps. If you think that most members have found a millionth of the success that Jim Carrey, Matt Damon, or Ben Affleck have found, then you’re completely full of shit.
      
      Then again, that was pretty obvious from your previous post.
    - Whatever
      
      And who determined they all need to be succesfull.
      
      In every occupation there are only a few that get rich (justified or not). And billions of struggling people in every other occupation (to the point of slavery) live with it or choose/are forced to take another job instead of waiting for their breakthrough by joining a guild.
      
      If every artists needs to make a living in any case, i become an artist. Can’t do any meaningfull art so that means a lifetime income guarantee while doing nothing except make a 3 line drawing or scream into a microphone once a year to make sure te deserve the title “artist”.
  - IDIOCRACY
    
    they don’t make art :D
- Echo-Skywalker formerly hotdog
  
  My respects to you.I think you’ve done some great work.
- Roller
  
  Not for you anyway.Because you suck.
- http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
  
  Wow, really? Come on, dude. None of the greatest artists the world has ever known did it for free. Shakespeare was more than well paid by his patrons. Michelangelo toiled under his Patrons as well (including the Pope of the time). Bach, Brahms, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, etc. DaVinci was paid well enough to be considered rich for his day. Very rich. Authors can’t possibly offer their writings and such for free without risking quality. You name them, regardless of the “art” involved, and you’ll find someone well-paid for their efforts. NONE of them worked and developed their craft for free. They do (do) it because they loved (love) it, but to KEEP doing it and become the best they can be…they gotta devote the time. Time requires money, or other sort of equal compensation.
  
  Point is, art has nearly ALWAYS been a business. Well, except for the caveman days, and you really don’t wanna see that kind of stuff hanging in the Louvre, would ya?
  
  What’s next? Are you going to suggest artists appear and perform for free, too? After all, stage shows are art, too. If the writers and composers shouldn’t be paid, then why should the actors or anyone else helping put on the show? It;s all connected, you see.
  
  I’m not arguing for the side of the anti-pirate BS. Far from it. Just answering the baseless opinion that artists (of any kind, I presume) should never receive rewards for their labors of love – money or otherwise.
  
  May I further presume that you, FrostyC, are NOT an artist of any kind?
  - http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock
    
    Finally someone on TF with some common sense. It’s good to see something different than the usual “im entitled to everything.
    
    Nope, in fact I doubt anyone here who is advocating free things has a job. Otherwise they wouldn’t expect artists to be fine with it when people don’t pay them.
    - Anonymous
      
      Well, if you actually read responses people post to you you’d see not everyone says “I’m entitled to everything”. Kind of like how you post “All people who are fine with P2P technology by default must be thieves and pirates”. Gets old after awhile.
      
      I personally am not on here advocating free things. I do however read the articles before I randomly throw out my 2 cents on a topic. One can not say the same about you. Also, as someone on here who tends to be against you (which by your bias and opinions makes me a thief and pirate and means I think I’m entitled to EVERYTHING free), I felt it necessary to tell you I HAVE THREE JOBS. Two are part time which I do get paid for. And the other one I do for free. What is it? I repair computers and root/jailbreak cell phones/tablets. That’s right, I do that for free. People are aware I do those things and so they ask me to fix their stuff, usually when I finish they’ll ask me how much they owe me and I decline payment and tell them it’s cool. Why? Because I like doing computer repairs and hacking phones/tablets. I find it interesting and fun. Randomly (maybe once a month), I’ll let people buy me a few drinks or some fast food, but I never accept money.
      
      Oh and the artists aren’t getting ripped off genius. The artists sign contracts when they first sign up with a label. They get paid essentially a lump sum when they sign. The record labels are the ones who feel they’re getting cheated (and as has been show by actual studies, they aren’t actually losing any money contrary to what they/you say). The artists make their money up front. If they want to make more however, they can sell merchandise (t-shirts and whatnot) or they can tour (which is where most artists make their money anyway, unless you’re completely retarded and don’t know that, which, I won’t lie, you might be).
      
      Jack, frankly you’re “arguments” (if one feels kind enough to even call them that) are weak. I’ve yet to see you present any kind of proof to support what you do say. And you are the last person who should be talking to anyone about common sense. Why do you stick around? Doesn’t it get old banging your head against a brick wall? No one cares what you say because you don’t even back it up with anything. Even the people who are right in the middle between both camps (completely anti-piracy or completely pro-file sharing) don’t believe half of what you say (if that) and think you’re a troll. Wouldn’t your time be better spent commenting on a pro-copyright/anti-piracy site?
    - Ninja
      
      at least he’s amusing.. although Wonch got the trophy today
    - Anonymous
      
      On that we are most definitely agreed. Lol. I’m wondering if Jack got a pal to just type off a script he uses, so he doesn’t feel all lonely on here.
    - Neo
      
      Jack, let’s face it, the dumbass thieves here will never understand that people need to get paid for what they do and that includes producing movies, coding apps and games as well. Most here thinks that digital products doesn’t take any effort to produce and just because its easy to copy means they are entitled to do it and its the right thing to do.
      
      Infact people here are so used to stealing that in their own twisted reality they think its totally the right thing to do. They think pirating movies and games is tantamount to sharing of knowledge and information when clearly movies, music and games are entertainment and not knowledge or information that needs to be shared.
      
      Let’s just draw a little analogy here. People here spends thousands of dollars every year upgrading their computers and buying new computer parts. They don’t mind paying for the hardware but when it comes to the software, the operating system which only costs a fraction of the hardware, it’s fine not to pay for it according to the pirates. Afterall, it didn’t take any effort to create the softwares right? Can you see the irony?
    - Ninja
      
      Another failure. Oh dear, not a single pro-copyright dude doing it right? I’ve read a great article these days that was clearly pro-copyright and I agreed with it. But it’s hard to agree with the bs of the copyright fanboys here in TF comments.
      
      In any case, I’m not a thief, fck you. I own a legal copy of Windows, Office and a few other software I use frequently and I found it worth paying (or the open source version was unusable). I happen to use Linux too. I also happened to buy like 10 DVDs this month even though I have (and won’t delete) the copies obtained via TPB and the likes. I wanted to buy a little more but I limit such expenditures to 5% of my monthly income.
      
      But you see, in your broken logic I’m a filthy pirate because I downloaded all those things (my W7 DVD is not working so I downloaded a copy from TPB). I’m also a filthy pirate because I refuse to buy 5 copies of a software (W7) for each computer at home so I cracked W7 activation idiocy at 2 of them (2 notebooks came with the original thing so had no need to). I also cracked Office in 2 machines (Home and Student gives permission for 3 machines but I couldn’t care less).
      
      By your logic, M$ and Hollywood will starve because of me, after all I downloaded their stuff.
      
      And, oh great sapient Neo, I’m not the only one that do that. Get a ride in the failboat with Wonch and Jackie, will you?
    - Roller
      
      So what do you want?.Should each Cd have unlimited installs?.
    - Neo
      
      You are a retard. If you have two notebooks and three desktops in your home, it means you paid for the hardware of all 5 machines, then why can’t you pay for the software of all 5 machines too? Your logic completely fails and yes you are a thief.
    - Friend of the People
      
      Most of us (or so I hope), don’t think that anyone in a major corporation or any big-name artist will starve because you pirate music, or in this case, Microsoft Office. The argument I prefer to make is that it is morally wrong because you force a distribution model on the creators. The way things should work is that when someone creates something in a digital medium, like a song or software, they should have the right to determine how it is distributed. If a consumer does not like the proposed distribution, than they should abstain from the product. When people engage in piracy, then they are forcing a change onto the creator. Even if that does not equal any loss in profit for the creator in the grand scheme, it is still morally wrong.
      
      I do have a few beliefs about the purchase of software. I believe that if you purchase something artistic like a song or video game, you should be purchasing a license to use it for the rest of your life. I’m not sure if that should apply to work-use software though. Art is meant to be experienced by individuals, but work software like Microsoft office belongs in a different category. Art exists as our understanding off some artistic creation, while to software is meant to aid our work in some specific area, so while one (art) should be accessiable for life upon fulfilling the terms of distribution laid down by the artist, the other (work software) should not. In this way, I think I can say that you should pay for every copy of work software you need.
      
      Also, you say that you limit your purchase of DVDs and other artistic products to 5% of your monthly income. I humbly submit that if that is all you are willing to pay, that is all you should have. If you aren’t willing to pay an artist’s asking price, you shouldn’t have their work.
      
      Thank you for your time.
    - Don
      
      One of the most sensible comments I have read on this site. Kudos to you sir.
    - Don
      
      One of the most sensible comments I have read on this site. Kudos to you sir.
    - Anonymous
      
      We wont ever see the day when we pay for something and have the right to it forever, infact, the RIAA/MPAA really are trying to figure out a way they could charge us per “performance” (viewing/listening), how do I know this, Well I worked at a company for a short time that was involved in trying to figure out a way to do this that would be….acceptable to the general public, most of the people on the project knew it wasnt gonna work, but management signed a contract to work on the problem…..
      
      I feel that software bought for personal use should be yours to use on our personal systems, you shouldnt need to buy a separate license for each of your personal computers.
      
      but, then I grew up in computers at a time when most software you bought that had a long license allowed you to have it on more then one of your own systems as long as you wherent using more then 1 or 2 of them at once OR selling them, Hell old versions of windows even allowed multi system installs from one license, I know because i had both 3.x and NT3.x on desktop AND portable/laptop systems and the license said that was legal.
      
      I refuse to buy anything new with DRM on it these days, because I REFUSE to pay for something that I dont/wont ever own, I will buy used cd’s and software, in both cases, the publisher who shoved the DRM on the disk dosnt get a dime from my buying it.
      
      whats your stand on 2nd hand sales, I mean if you take it to the extreme that software publishers and riaa/mpaa have you would conclude that reselling your plastic disks is piracy/illegal/imoral because the publisher dosnt get a cut of that sale.
    - Friend of the People
      
      Most of us (or so I hope), don’t think that anyone in a major corporation or any big-name artist will starve because you pirate music, or in this case, Microsoft Office. The argument I prefer to make is that it is morally wrong because you force a distribution model on the creators. The way things should work is that when someone creates something in a digital medium, like a song or software, they should have the right to determine how it is distributed. If a consumer does not like the proposed distribution, than they should abstain from the product. When people engage in piracy, then they are forcing a change onto the creator. Even if that does not equal any loss in profit for the creator in the grand scheme, it is still morally wrong.
      
      I do have a few beliefs about the purchase of software. I believe that if you purchase something artistic like a song or video game, you should be purchasing a license to use it for the rest of your life. I’m not sure if that should apply to work-use software though. Art is meant to be experienced by individuals, but work software like Microsoft office belongs in a different category. Art exists as our understanding off some artistic creation, while to software is meant to aid our work in some specific area, so while one (art) should be accessiable for life upon fulfilling the terms of distribution laid down by the artist, the other (work software) should not. In this way, I think I can say that you should pay for every copy of work software you need.
      
      Also, you say that you limit your purchase of DVDs and other artistic products to 5% of your monthly income. I humbly submit that if that is all you are willing to pay, that is all you should have. If you aren’t willing to pay an artist’s asking price, you shouldn’t have their work.
      
      Thank you for your time.
    - Anonymous
      
      the funny part is, ms really isnt worried about people like you doing what you did, I have had talks with ms reps about this many times, MS’s main worry is the people selling prebuilt systems with crazked windows and selling cracked windows disks(that many times have spyware/malware/viruses built in)
      
      I have run across what ms worries about, and turned in a shop I worked for when I caught them doing this, mostly because they REFUSED to buy windows to put on systems they where selling, despite the fact they could get windows licences dirt cheap on large sheets for OEM builds.
      
      they also worry about large corporations pirating their software, because those contracts are where they make most of their money.
      
      the home “pirate” cracking activation is NOT something they give a crap about, because sales to our market isnt where they make their money, It is however one place they get alot of free advertising.
      
      and Roller/Neo, I own technet and I still use OEM activation on my systems, why? because i got tired of having to let windows re-activate every time i moved hardware around(7 got so that every time i moved one of my videocards around or removed/added the bridge back in it wanted to re-activate)
      I have dozens of perfectly legal keys, I just choose to not deal with the hassle that is windows activation.
      
      if you have a problem with that, you can suck my fat hairy cock :)
      
      Another note is that when you buy windows, you get a limited number of activations/re-activations, and if you buy an OEM copy its tied to the first system you install it on, if your motherboard dies, technically your sposta buy another copy, if you dont, your breaking the licence, in the eyes of neo that means your a pirate!!!
      
      if your laptops hdd dies and you have to reinstall windows onto it with a new hdd, technically you just broke the OEM version license, MS dosnt enforce it that way because it would be stupid to do so, it would just piss people off, again MS dosnt really care if a minority of home users/geeks crack/bypass activation, they dont really make that much off sales to our market anyway, they make far more (hundreds-thousands-tens of thousands of times more) off corporate and OEM system builder license sales.
    - Anonymous
      
      the funny part is, ms really isnt worried about people like you doing what you did, I have had talks with ms reps about this many times, MS’s main worry is the people selling prebuilt systems with crazked windows and selling cracked windows disks(that many times have spyware/malware/viruses built in)
      
      I have run across what ms worries about, and turned in a shop I worked for when I caught them doing this, mostly because they REFUSED to buy windows to put on systems they where selling, despite the fact they could get windows licences dirt cheap on large sheets for OEM builds.
      
      they also worry about large corporations pirating their software, because those contracts are where they make most of their money.
      
      the home “pirate” cracking activation is NOT something they give a crap about, because sales to our market isnt where they make their money, It is however one place they get alot of free advertising.
      
      and Roller/Neo, I own technet and I still use OEM activation on my systems, why? because i got tired of having to let windows re-activate every time i moved hardware around(7 got so that every time i moved one of my videocards around or removed/added the bridge back in it wanted to re-activate)
      I have dozens of perfectly legal keys, I just choose to not deal with the hassle that is windows activation.
      
      if you have a problem with that, you can suck my fat hairy cock :)
      
      Another note is that when you buy windows, you get a limited number of activations/re-activations, and if you buy an OEM copy its tied to the first system you install it on, if your motherboard dies, technically your sposta buy another copy, if you dont, your breaking the licence, in the eyes of neo that means your a pirate!!!
      
      if your laptops hdd dies and you have to reinstall windows onto it with a new hdd, technically you just broke the OEM version license, MS dosnt enforce it that way because it would be stupid to do so, it would just piss people off, again MS dosnt really care if a minority of home users/geeks crack/bypass activation, they dont really make that much off sales to our market anyway, they make far more (hundreds-thousands-tens of thousands of times more) off corporate and OEM system builder license sales.
    - Anonymous
      
      I’m going to say one thing, you sound nearly reasonable (but not quite completely reasonable because you, like Jack, are making assumptions that everyone here IS a thief), but what kills you is the bad spelling/grammar. Totally f*cks up what you are saying. Makes you look not that bright.
      
      EX: “Most here thinks that digital products doesn’t take any effort to produce…”
      
      The correct way to say that, so you don’t sound illiterate is as follows: “Most here THINK that digital products DON’T take any effort to produce…”
      
      Or in a way you might understand, I thinks what you said ain’t make no sense. : P
    - Neo
      
      Your reply is exactly what I call clutching at straws. When you nothing better to say, you pick on a person’s grammar and typos. Congrats, you know some grammar, you must be really bright except that your tiny little brain is unable to comprehend the fact that not everyone in the world speaks English as their native language.
    - Anonymous
      
      So that’s why you can randomly speak it really well when you’re calling everyone thieves and going on rants about piracy and the monetary losses it’s causing and all the poor, starving, homeless artists it’s leaving in it’s wake? How odd. You must have selective comprehension of the English language in that case. I understand that afflicts quite a few people, trolls in particular. It may even be deadly or so I hear.
      
      Also, if you read some of the replies I leave to Jack and yourself for at that matter you’d see I never clutch at straws. I’ve got plenty to say that shoots down anything you do say already. I just am a stickler for correct spelling/punctuation and grammar use, it truly drives me nuts to see any of the previously mentioned used in an incorrect manner.
      
      Oh, and fyi, I am actually really bright. ; ) I’m fluent in two languages, English being my native one. And even then, I still learned how to speak/write my non-native one correctly (that being Spanish), because that’s just what you’re supposed to do. The one who has a tiny brain is the one who trolls in their (allegedly, and I only have your word on this) non-native language and doesn’t even do it well.
    - Roller
      
      Amen.
      
      Your little grammar lesson impresses no one dude, and it sure doesn’t make you any more right.
    - Friend of the People
      
      @electric-worry
      
      Poking at him for using bad grammar doesn’t accomplish anything. You irritate him and alienate everyone else who doesn’t want to see an argument about grammar on a forum meant for the discussion of copyright and the evils of the RIAA. It may bug you, but just deal with it and address what he says, not how he says. You’ll look the better man.
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      Jack, I’m not on your side, for sure. I’m quite well-versed in how the “artist” industries work. electric_worry is correct – Industry USUALLY pays upfront. It;s called an “advance.” That money is non-refundable, but MUST be repaid for said artist to have a prayer at further purchases to the Industry of their choice. MOST projects fall far short of breaking even. so Industries rely on the one or two major “hits” to balance their books. It’s a STUPID business model that even a first year Biz student would never try on his/her startup.
      
      In their rush to release new product, quality is slipping, too. Books too frequently have errors that even a skimming would have caught. Sound recordings are now being released (by MAJOR labels) with sound “artifacts.” Films (even majors) somehow get through with obvious mistakes and goofs (sound booms from above, anyone?).
      
      Wasn’t always that way… Used to be EVERYTHING was scrutinized and perfected as much as possible before being released to the general public. It was a matter of PRIDE! As a result, the sales were there, EVEN when true pirates stole the books for illicit sales (yes, they did that HUNDREDS of years ago, too). Yet publishing and recording companies only failed when they could no longer provide the quality. Usually, that was because they started catering to the MASS market to maximize profits (rather than several different niche markets for better staying-power). Today’s music companies used to do that. So did publishing. As did filmmakers. Now? Nope! They run genres into the ground until the public is sick of it. MOST companies fail due to that kind of short-sightedness, not due to piracy.
      
      It’s usually the people who BUILD the companies (the first generation of owners and management) who see the most successes. After that, things usually slip downward – if not right away, within a decade or two (see MGM after the last principle owner died). The original owners and management did it for the money AND the love of their craft(s). The second and succeeding generations? Only money (salary, bonuses, paid benefits and other incentives) rules them. Hence the many sales and mergers due to what really is a lack of actual CASH FLOW.
      
      No, sir. Pirates are NOT responsible; greed and stupid business practices are.
      
      Am I still making sense to you, Eric? Er, I mean…Jack.
    - Ninja
      
      You left the failboat with this comment. But you should get better informed about art being just business.
    - Ninja
      
      You left the failboat with this comment. But you should get better informed about art being just business.
    - Roller
      
      “MOST projects fall far short of breaking even. so Industries rely on the one or two major “hits” to balance their books. It’s a STUPID business model that even a first year Biz student would never try on his/her startup.”
      
      Because they would do what, exactly?.Create constant hits?.
      
      Easy to criticize, harder to do.
      
      “So did publishing. As did filmmakers. Now? Nope! They run genres into the ground until the public is sick of it. MOST companies fail due to that kind of short-sightedness, not due to piracy.”
      
      Well, first of all I don’t know what you mean “now”.Every decade of cinema has included a new genre/fad, be it science fiction,, film noir or otherwise.And most of todays studios are the same ones from the early 20th century, so…..
      
      “The second and succeeding generations? Only money (salary, bonuses, paid benefits and other incentives) rules them. ”
      
      And you think this is a problem in and of itself?.
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      >>Because they would do what, exactly?.Create constant hits?.
      
      Easy to criticize, harder to do.<>Well, first of all I don’t know what you mean “now”.Every decade of cinema has included a new genre/fad, be it science fiction,, film noir or otherwise.And most of todays studios are the same ones from the early 20th century, so…..<>And you think this is a problem in and of itself?.<<
      
      Absolutely! In fact, I could argue it;s really THE problem. These attitudes are no longer consumer-based. It;s more about "here's our newest shit – you WILL enjoy the smell."
    - http://twitter.com/pabz2k pabz2k
      
      Pixar is owned by Disney.
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      Jack, I’m not on your side, for sure. I’m quite well-versed in how the “artist” industries work. electric_worry is correct – Industry USUALLY pays upfront. It;s called an “advance.” That money is non-refundable, but MUST be repaid for said artist to have a prayer at further purchases to the Industry of their choice. MOST projects fall far short of breaking even. so Industries rely on the one or two major “hits” to balance their books. It’s a STUPID business model that even a first year Biz student would never try on his/her startup.
      
      In their rush to release new product, quality is slipping, too. Books too frequently have errors that even a skimming would have caught. Sound recordings are now being released (by MAJOR labels) with sound “artifacts.” Films (even majors) somehow get through with obvious mistakes and goofs (sound booms from above, anyone?).
      
      Wasn’t always that way… Used to be EVERYTHING was scrutinized and perfected as much as possible before being released to the general public. It was a matter of PRIDE! As a result, the sales were there, EVEN when true pirates stole the books for illicit sales (yes, they did that HUNDREDS of years ago, too). Yet publishing and recording companies only failed when they could no longer provide the quality. Usually, that was because they started catering to the MASS market to maximize profits (rather than several different niche markets for better staying-power). Today’s music companies used to do that. So did publishing. As did filmmakers. Now? Nope! They run genres into the ground until the public is sick of it. MOST companies fail due to that kind of short-sightedness, not due to piracy.
      
      It’s usually the people who BUILD the companies (the first generation of owners and management) who see the most successes. After that, things usually slip downward – if not right away, within a decade or two (see MGM after the last principle owner died). The original owners and management did it for the money AND the love of their craft(s). The second and succeeding generations? Only money (salary, bonuses, paid benefits and other incentives) rules them. Hence the many sales and mergers due to what really is a lack of actual CASH FLOW.
      
      No, sir. Pirates are NOT responsible; greed and stupid business practices are.
      
      Am I still making sense to you, Eric? Er, I mean…Jack.
    - Ugly American
      
      “Finally someone on TF with some common sense.”
      
      That makes most of us, you clueless shill – you don’t possess one drop.
      
      “It’s good to see something different than the usual “im entitled to everything.”
      
      “im entitled to everything” = we wish to support the artists directly – not you or your MAFIAA, “Jack.” Or is it Eric? Or is it Reasoned? Or is it Neo? I hope you copywrong these “things.”
      
      “Nope, in fact I doubt anyone here who is advocating free things has a job.”
      
      What “things,” shill? Art / Culture is not a “thing” – “things” cannot be downloaded. Ones and zeros aren’t “things” – buttplugs are things.
      
      “Otherwise they wouldn’t expect artists to be fine with it when people don’t pay them.”
      
      People can and do pay them – just because we refuse to support the middlemen parasites of your “industry” doesn’t mean artists aren’t earning money. Let me clarify some “things” for you:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchandising
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimonial
      
      You’re welcome, “Jack” / Eric / Reasoned / Neo.
    - Ryan_Javery
      
      Look I’m going to repeat myself. The industry provides an invaluable service to musicians. They pay for tour buses, book them nice big stadiums so everyone can see them play, pay for the recording studio. These are all things most artists can’t afford or don’t have the business know-how to do.
    - Ugly American
      
      Artists can hire “experts” to address any of these matters if they are that incompetent – as such, “the industry” = unnecessary and wasteful. It’s an “industry” of legal theft – a cancer upon humanity.
    - Roller
      
      You’re a cancer, and you know nothing.
    - Whatever
      
      The service they provide (basically a loan), they can get from the bank.
      
      The bank differs in a few things:
      1. The bank will decline sooner as they better understand the risk for the person.
      2. The bank will only want back the loan+interest while the MAFIAA will take loan+interest AND marketing cost+interest AND 90 percent of profit + interest AND reproduction rights AND right to follow up art.
      3. The bank will not tell them what art to create.
    - Ninja
      
      wow Jackie, I’ll feed the troll just for the lulz. I advocate free. I advocate donations. And I happen to work 8h a day. Weird isn’t it? There are the ones with more than one job here and there are the ones that work for free while advocating free. Weird isn’t it?
      
      Anyway, you fail much like mr Wonch. So I’ll dismiss you.
  - Dave
    
    Stop arguing man, you can’t win. You’re right of course. But you can’t. This is the internet.
    
    I’m an artist for a living AND a musician in my free time, and while I give my music away for free, if I wanted to make it a career, yes of course I’d want to earn from it. It’s selfish and greedy to expect and want things for free, but the majority of people on TorrentFreak are thieves who genuinely believe they deserve everything for nothing.
    - Ninja
      
      Jesus, it’s fail party at TF today? If you are good you’ll make money even using only your free time. A friend of mine has a band and they are invited to play at bars, restaurants and events. And he does that for his free time. He gave a few CDs the other day, for free, I should have asked if I could share over the internet along with his contact. A donation button comes to mind too.
      
      In any case, happy failboat sailing.
    - Ninja
      
      Jesus, it’s fail party at TF today? If you are good you’ll make money even using only your free time. A friend of mine has a band and they are invited to play at bars, restaurants and events. And he does that for his free time. He gave a few CDs the other day, for free, I should have asked if I could share over the internet along with his contact. A donation button comes to mind too.
      
      In any case, happy failboat sailing.
    - Whatever
      
      So while you are a musician in your free time you are not an artist ?
      
      I guess i was wrong in thinking that a musician is a subset of artist.
      
      Back to school then learning about sets.
  - ndmushroom
    
    Not quite. You’re mistaking art for today’s mass production. Michelangelo was paid to paint a painting. He wasn’t paid for that painting’s replicas (in fact, I don’t think he was very fond of the idea of his paintings being replicated in the first place). What Michelangelo was doing is the Rennaissance’s equivalent to today’s live performance. Which isn’t free, as you very well know. What FrostyC is describing is the modern-day equivalent of popular songs. All countries and cultures have those songs, be it nursery rhymes, songs and tunes you sing along to at carnivals, festivals and other events, wedding songs, funeral songs etc. Do you pay to sing “Amazing grace”? Do you pay to sing “three blind mice”? (I could go on, but I’m not english and my knowledge of folk/popular english music is somewhat limited…) :-)
    If you write music, it’s either because a. someone asked you to (and paid you to, like they (sometimes) did with classical composers) or because b. you want to express yourself via music. Trying to say something to people while charging them for hearing you is kind of paradoxal, don’t you think?
    - Ninja
      
      Refreshing win after all these fail copywrong fanboys.
    - Ugly American
      
      Reasoned Eric is working overtime – huge MAFIAA bonus this year…
    - Ninja
      
      Refreshing win after all these fail copywrong fanboys.
    - Anonymous
      
      just dont sing “happy birthday” in public, they will want you to pay a fee!!!
      
      and if the RIAA could find a way to make you pay for AMAZING GRACE and all other hyms and even the times u you get a tune/song stuck in ur head and hum or sing it out loud they would, after all your “preforming” the song!!!!
    - Anonymous
      
      just dont sing “happy birthday” in public, they will want you to pay a fee!!!
      
      and if the RIAA could find a way to make you pay for AMAZING GRACE and all other hyms and even the times u you get a tune/song stuck in ur head and hum or sing it out loud they would, after all your “preforming” the song!!!!
  - Ninja
    
    Wow, you missed the entire point. I could mention a few friends that make art and you’d never know. They don’t have any patrons. My mom paints and gives her paintings away sometimes. Never seen she selling a thing. By your concept she’s not an artist. So it’s flawed. Art is not business my friend, it’s just that some ppl manage to get money over it. This developer is a fine example of an artist that would get my money if I needed his app after this display of politeness and wisdom.
    
    I don’t care enough to keep this discussion with you because you failed already, the discussion was over before my post. I just felt the need kick a dead body.
    - Friend of the People
      
      Here’s the thing; your mom chooses to give the painting away. Many artists don’t choose to have their art on torrent sites, but the pirates put their music there anyway. That is the difference. Art does not have to be business, but if an artist wants it to be business, then we should respect that.
    - Anonymous
      
      well, to bad for them, if they cant hack it, then dont put your “Art” out there in a form people can share.
      
      honestly, just do live shows, dont allow any eletronic devices into the events/shows and you should be able to keep control of who accesses your “Art”
  - Friend of the People
    
    Congratulations on expressing what I was trying to say far better than I did. Thank you for your post.
- Anon
  
  Art is not a job?
  Dumbass. If FrostyC who has to give it free had his way the Beatles would have been so busy driving trucks and waiting tables so they could give Sergeant Peppers away for nothing they would have never found the time to make the White Album. FrostyC you’re a fucking freetard.
  - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay
    
    *facepalms*
    
    Frosty was merely talking about himself, and here you go, with the usual antipiracy tirade that gets old fast. Where did he say ANYTHING in regards to other artists? He was talking about HIMSELF! Huge difference.
    
    Further, there’s enough evidence of artists, going it without labels or heavy reliance on copyright law, to show that there’s enough ways to make money in any avenue to do what you love as a hobby and not worry about the bills.
    
    It’s just up to each individual artist/creator to find it.
    - Neo
      
      He is talking about himself but he also says that “Art is not a job and shouldn’t be sold”. Let me assure you that if Frosty’s primary profession aka bread earner was creating music, he wouldn’t have given it away for free. Because he is probably a hobo with a guitar in hand and don’t know jack about creating music, he can afford to give it away for free as people wouldn’t buy shit from him anyway.
    - Ninja
      
      Radio Head? Red Nek? Others that give their songs for free?
      
      You are now insulting many of my friends that make music for fun. So I’ll politely insult you too: moron.
      
      Failed again.
  - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
    
    LOL! They would never have gotten far enough along to do Sgt. Peppers. It’s only a job if you do it an NO ONE wants to check it out.
    - Ugly American
      
      “It’s only a job if you do it an NO ONE wants to check it out.”
      
      By this logic, every job = pointless. MAFIAA reasoning @ its finest.
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      I’ll ignore the MAFIAA insult. Trust me, if you knew my history, you’d know dang well I’m an enemy of the RIAA and their their clones (for example).
      
      Look, most of art IS just a job; quite a bit of that is real work. Independents have to do everything themselves, really. I write. It is never just about creating something. I want to share it. How does one do that without spending a dime? Sure, I could give things away free, but it still costs for the Internet connection (remember, I do NOT live with mom and dad). One also must buy software, hardware, and other necessary things specifically for ONE project. It also costs, in time, to edit, compile (three different versions for electronic and yet another for print), distribute, and market. If I ever perform a reading, it is NOT paid, so those expenses are factored in. Additionally, I’m an awful copy-editor, so I have to pay someone to ensure anyone reading my writings enjoy quality far superior than what I can do by myself.
      
      My point? Creation itself is awesomely fun, babe! I could do that all day, every day, and never worry about a dang thing other than eating and visiting the bathroom once every few hours. But that’s not practical. If I want to make enough for a good side income WITHOUT signing away my rights to each project to a third party, I have to all the necessary things that turn what I love to do into a job.
      
      The bottom line is if I want people to read and LIKE what I offer (free or not) and then not groan if I release more, every project must display the highest possible quality AND I must present myself to them (personally, mostly) in the same way.
      
      Selling makes all the above worth the humdrum of the not-so-fun parts, but even if someone shares a file or two free, at least I know they enjoyed it by watching the SEEDS grow from 2 or 3 to dozens within weeks of initial release. File-sharing is, in reality, an AWESOME marketing tool.
      
      To answer some of the silliness that most here want things for free all the time…there is certainly that kind of element, but most people aren’t that way. If they download and enjoy, they will likely buy. If they do NOT buy, it’s because most either don’t like what they read OR they really can’t afford it. A few might simply forget (no biggie). In my case, I see no real difference between “try before you buy” sharing and the ability to read any given book in the store before purchase.
      
      The trouble is that quite a few giving opinions here, honest or not, don’t seem to be artists at all. They don’t understand that the drive to create is vastly different than the efforts behind becoming (and remaining) known and relevant.
    - Anonymous
      
      the art itself is not the job, once you turn “Art” into a job it becomes work, you cant mass produce true art for example, I understand what you are saying, honestly, I know having to copy edit/proof your own work(or other peoples) is a pain, and isnt free, BUT you choose to do that to make it something somebody would want to buy.
      
      can you force yourself to have insperation for one of your stories?
      
      As somebody who writes “when inspired” I can tell you, I havent found a way to force myself to become inspired and have it work as a 9-5 type job.
      
      the proofing and copy editing part, thats a different story, that most def is a JOB and its a pain in the fucking ass.
      
      one of the biggest mistakes true artists make is trying to turn art into a job, you can read alot of stories from people considered very successful about this, So i wont bother typing a bunch of it up, google can lead you to thousands/tens of thousands of books on the subject.
      
      My advice, if you dont want to pay people to proof/copy edit your work, find some good friends who can and are willing to help, the funny thing is, even if you gave the book away to people asking for help with proofing/copy editing, and it spred free, people would buy it.
      
      Example, I downloaded a full series of hand scanned ebooks(all but one of them out of print) I helped copy edit them and sent them back to the seeder, turned out, the person who put them up, was the guy who wrote them, his publisher refused to put up ebooks of his works(because they knew they wouldnt get hard cover or even full paperback prices for them) after he got back all the edits form various people, He submitted the ebooks to the publisher to be published as ebooks, idiotic but that was their main hangup over publishing them, not wanting to have to pay somebody to format and proof them for various screen sizes….
      
      oh, and after extended corospondance with the author(now a pretty old man) he told me ebook sales where excellent and he was getting alot of letters(snalemail) and email’s from people very happy to be able to get his works again having found they where out of print.
      
      said books have started going back into print due to ebook sales.
  - Ninja
    
    wow, I’m about to facepalm… yet another for the failboat… It might sink due to overcrowding.
    
    I suppose that when they started they were already famous and charging shitloads for their performances, no?
    
    Dismissed.
    - Roller
      
      Your shtick is getting tiresome.Go troll elsewhere..
    - Anonymous
      
      a trololol trying to tell somebody else to get off the trollercoster…..talk about hummor :D
  - Anonymous
    
    1. The Beatles didnt make their money off of their record sales, they made them from live shows and Beatles merchandise sales.
    
    2. Art is not a job, anybody whos created true art knows inspiration dosnt come on command, it hits you when it feels like hitting you, that can be when your in the shower, taking a dump, watching tv, riding a bus, on and on, you cant force inspiration, thats just not how it works.
    
    3. as said below, FrostyC was clearly talking about himself, not anybody else.
    
    4. your not going to win, you may as well stop posting, before somebody is forced to start counter trolling your stupid ass :D
- Neo
  
  Yeah sure art is not a job and should not be sold. The money will automatically come from the money tree in the artists’ garden and the pirates will put food on the artist’s table for free by downloading “art”.
  
  And once again, don’t forget get kids, Movies and Games are “knowledge” and apps are “art”. What amazing logic the thieves have.
  
  And you called yourself a musician aye? Is that your primary job? If not, then shut up because professional musicians and artists depend on people paying them for what they do to survive.
  - Ugly American
    
    “Yeah sure art is not a job and should not be sold.”
    
    It isn’t and it shouldn’t be – one does not “sell” culture, shill.
    
    “The money will automatically come from the money tree in the artists’ garden
    
    You mean like live performances? Yeah, I think I’ve heard of those – record labels earn dick from them. Is that why you’re so pissed Jack, er, Neo?
    
    “and the pirates will put food on the artist’s table for free by downloading “art”.”
    
    Not to mention cocaine up some record executive’s nose – yeah, like you fvckers really give two shits about the artists. Hypocritical fvcktards.
    
    “And once again, don’t forget get kids, Movies and Games are “knowledge” and apps are “art”.”
    
    Correct. How does it feel to be right for a change?
    
    “What amazing logic the thieves have.”
    
    Agreed – I’m simply amazed with RIAA’s level of theft regarding those who actually create the fvcking music.
    
    “And you called yourself a musician aye?”
    
    “Aye?” What’s with the pirate lingo, shill? Are we rubbing off on you?
    Welcome to the party – have a seat, stay a while… <3
    
    "Is that your primary job?"
    
    Creating art isn't "a job," shill – neither is culture. Stop the exploitation, you RIAA pimp – and fvck your cartel. <3
    
    "If not, then shut up because professional musicians and artists depend on people paying them for what they do to survive."
    
    One doesn't "survive" by playing the harmonica or finger painting with poop – but hey, don't let me stop you from trying to exploit those activities for your exclusive gain. Cocaine is pretty expensive and we all know record executives need to drive several expensive cars at the same time – from one mansion and / or prostitute to another.
    
    Fvck you, Eric – I hope your anus explodes… <3
    - Anon
      
      “one does not “sell” culture, shill.”
      
      The worlds greatest museums buy and sell “culture” everyday. So do recording artists. Your hilarious ignorance is not worth the electrons it takes for TF to publish.
    - Neo
      
      Anon, you know these idiotic fu<ks here are ignorant as a cow don't you? You can't drill common sense into them even with a drill hammer. That's how thick their skulls are. All they are is a bunch of crooks born with a sense of entitlement.
      
      Art is being sold everywhere, anyone can see that unless you are blind. Not of this "art" would even exist in the first place if there wasn't any money involved. Hey who would have thought artists actually have to make a living too eh? Oops I forgot about the pirate logic that artists make money when crooks download their stuff for free without paying for it.
    - Neo
      
      Thank you DISQUS and your wonderful formatting system.
    - Ninja
      
      Art is also being given for free everywhere.
      
      The terms you failed to understand are urban vocabulary and a type of art. Ever heard of grafiti? Do those guys charge for their art?
      
      Have I mentioned you ppl fail?
    - Anon
      
      The “TatsCru” founded in the early 1980‘s has grown into the Bronx’s leading practitioner of “aerosol art”, representing New York City in a competition at the Smithsonian Museum.
      
      They’ve gained international recognition with assignments for recording artists like Missy Elliot, Nas, Big Pun and Nelly, and have begun working with corporate food clients like McDonalds, Snapple, Coca Cola and M&M’s candy. Pirates don’t know the facts because they don’t feel they need the facts, they just want their free stuff and that selfishness grows clearer everyday.
    - Ninja
      
      True enough. And the original artists or their descendants get nothing. Ironic. Some of those artists died in complete obscurity and poverty.
    - Ugly American
      
      “The worlds greatest museums buy and sell “culture” everyday.”
      
      By choice – you “forgot” that component. I have yet to pay a museum for simply browsing around. Spot the flaw in your theory?
    - Anon
      
      “I have yet to pay a museum for simply browsing around.”
      
      Then you are a freeloader, part of the problem in a time when we all must help underwrite the conservation and presentation of art for future generations. That which you pull the money from withers, UGLY, and it’s your attitude about entitled taking without communal giving that does all of society harm. Spot the flaw in your character?”
    - Ugly American
      
      “Then you are a freeloader,”
      
      Paying is not required – I can donate if and when I am able to. Those with much deeper pockets can donate and reap the tax advantages. Imbecile.
      
      “part of the problem in a time when we all must help underwrite the conservation and presentation of art for future generations.”
      
      If we can afford it – in case you haven’t heard, the entire global economy is in the shitter and most people are just struggling to survive. I suppose you industry shills just can’t understand the financial difficulties faced by your average person…
      
      “That which you pull the money from withers, UGLY,”
      
      So if I never visit another museum in my entire fvcking life, I am somehow “pulling the money out of it” and it will “wither?” That’s like saying one downloaded copy = one lost sale – ya know, the typical MAFIAA argument. There isn’t one ounce of fvcking logic in your psychotic shill skull.
      
      “and it’s your attitude about entitled taking without communal giving that does all of society harm.”
      
      “Communal giving?!” Sweet mother of Marx – are you a fvcking Communist?! My “entitled taking” = putting $$$ directly into the pockets of artists instead of the industry scum (like you) which robs them. How is that “taking,” you lanky streak of piss? Because I simply refuse to finance some record executive’s coke habit? Fail on, shill – keep it epic! <3
      
      "Spot the flaw in your character?"
      
      There isn't one, you money obsessed mutant – parasites like you measure everything by the almighty dollar. Spot the flaw in your (lack of) character? I awaits your copywrong shillyness… :-*
    - Ugly American
      
      “The worlds greatest museums buy and sell “culture” everyday.”
      
      By choice – you “forgot” that component. I have yet to pay a museum for simply browsing around. Spot the flaw in your theory?
    - Neo
      
      “”Aye?” What’s with the pirate lingo, shill? Are we rubbing off on you?
      Welcome to the party – have a seat, stay a while… <3"
      
      Pirate lingo eh? Looks like your tiny little brain isn't smart enough to know that pirates on the sea are/were not the only ones that use that word, fool.
      
      "You mean like live performances? Yeah, I think I've heard of those – record labels earn dick from them. Is that why you're so pissed Jack, er, Neo?"
      
      Oh I forgot artists have no right to earn from studio recorded albums even though they work hard to make them and its all because you thieves think you are entitled to have digital products for free.
      
      "Not to mention cocaine up some record executive's nose – yeah, like you fvckers really give two shits about the artists. Hypocritical fvcktards."
      
      Yeah keep thinking that I work for some anti-piracy corp. I know its hard to believe that not everyone is a thief like you and some of us would rather pay for the digital products which entertains us. I am just a normal citizen with a normal job but if imagining me as someone working for RIAA floats your boat, so be it.
    - Ninja
      
      “Oh I forgot artists have no right to earn from studio recorded albums even though they work hard to make them and its all because MAFIAA thieves don’t pay them.”
      
      Fixed for you.
    - Anonymous
      
      Artists don’t earn from studio albums. As I’ve said up above somewhere, they get their money up front in regards to ANYTHING they’ll make off album sales. After that they’ll be lucky to make $1 off an album that sells for $20. That money that’s being “lost” (which is debatable because there’s no proof any money is ACTUALLY being lost) is money that goes into the pockets of Corporate Schills.
      
      Artists make their cash up front, an “advance”. Any further cash they want to make is through actually working (i.e. touring/merchandise sales/endorsements).
      
      Also quit calling everyone a thief. I pay for everything I have. But I have no problem with p2p technology. I use it daily. Before you call me a thief, I download perfectly legal Linux distributions. And seed them back to the Linux community. I also download lots of open source software/freeware. Anything that is FREE/OPEN SOURCE I download. Same goes for music, shows and movies. If it’s freely distributed I’ll take it, because I support that. And if the artists who create those things accept donations, I give what I can. Like at the bar, my donations (or tips at the bar) are never less than $5. I can’t really afford to do that because of bills but I manage to anyway because it’s for a good cause.
      
      Also, most people upset about “piracy” and “file sharing” aren’t mad it’s happening. They’re mad that they have no control over it. They’re mad they didn’t embrace the distribution model and potential it has in the beginning. And thus they can’t milk it for every cent they can.
      
      And I will not tell you again, get your sh*t together and proofread your comments. I’m tired of the errors in them.
    - Ugly American
      
      “Pirate lingo eh? Looks like your tiny little brain isn’t smart enough to know that pirates on the sea are/were not the only ones that use that word, fool.”
      
      “Pirates on the sea” – remind your MAFIAA, you foolish shill. We’ve been calling ourselves file-sharers for years… <3
      
      "Oh I forgot artists have no right to earn from studio recorded albums"
      
      I'm surprised you "forgot" RIAA's cardinal rule: artists are to be exploited.
      
      "even though they work hard to make them and its all because you thieves think you are entitled to have digital products for free."
      
      Translation: even though my precious thieving RIAA deserves 99% of all income generated from the work of others (the actual artists who create the fvcking music).
      
      "Yeah keep thinking that I work for some anti-piracy corp."
      
      Not exactly – I'm convinced you "work" directly for the MAFIAA, shill. Expecting a huge bonus this year? Make sure to buy premium coke.
      
      "I know its hard to believe that not everyone is a thief like you"
      
      I remove nothing – no theft occurs. You fail.
      
      "and some of us would rather pay for the digital products which entertains us."
      
      …in order to enrich the MAFIAA at the expense of the artists which aren't fairly compensated. Oh, how you fail!
      
      "I am just a normal citizen with a normal job"
      
      MAFIAA shills are far from "normal" and your shilling duties are anything but.
      
      "but if imagining me as someone working for RIAA floats your boat, so be it."
      
      Are we out at sea again? You shills have "pirates" under your beds… :-*
      Hey shill, where can I score a decent copy of this?
      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1298650/
    - Anonymous
      
      You forget one thing, he very well could be working for somebody outside the MAFIAA, he could work for a porn company thats ticked off their porn is being shared freely rather then making them shiploads more money!!!
    - Ninja
      
      Painting with poop, aside of making me laugh warmly, reminds me of the guy that used a clean piece of cloth to “paint” skulls in the dirty walls of a tunnel in São Paulo, Brazil.
      
      I’m sure he charged for his art.
      
      In fact he was ‘charged’ by the police for cleaning the walls. I lol’d.
  - Ugly American
    
    “Yeah sure art is not a job and should not be sold.”
    
    It isn’t and it shouldn’t be – one does not “sell” culture, shill.
    
    “The money will automatically come from the money tree in the artists’ garden
    
    You mean like live performances? Yeah, I think I’ve heard of those – record labels earn dick from them. Is that why you’re so pissed Jack, er, Neo?
    
    “and the pirates will put food on the artist’s table for free by downloading “art”.”
    
    Not to mention cocaine up some record executive’s nose – yeah, like you fvckers really give two shits about the artists. Hypocritical fvcktards.
    
    “And once again, don’t forget get kids, Movies and Games are “knowledge” and apps are “art”.”
    
    Correct. How does it feel to be right for a change?
    
    “What amazing logic the thieves have.”
    
    Agreed – I’m simply amazed with RIAA’s level of theft regarding those who actually create the fvcking music.
    
    “And you called yourself a musician aye?”
    
    “Aye?” What’s with the pirate lingo, shill? Are we rubbing off on you?
    Welcome to the party – have a seat, stay a while… <3
    
    "Is that your primary job?"
    
    Creating art isn't "a job," shill – neither is culture. Stop the exploitation, you RIAA pimp – and fvck your cartel. <3
    
    "If not, then shut up because professional musicians and artists depend on people paying them for what they do to survive."
    
    One doesn't "survive" by playing the harmonica or finger painting with poop – but hey, don't let me stop you from trying to exploit those activities for your exclusive gain. Cocaine is pretty expensive and we all know record executives need to drive several expensive cars at the same time – from one mansion and / or prostitute to another.
    
    Fvck you, Eric – I hope your anus explodes… <3
  - Ninja
    
    What an amazing failure you are. Games and Movies may be knowledge yes. Apps are art, yes, along with the previous.
    
    Professional musicians do live performances. Ppl pay for that. Or not if none have listened to the music. Aside from produced musicians from MAFIAA most musicians had part of their lives relied on free while money came only from live performances and it’s not uncommon to find ppl that rely on ART for their lives today whose primary “bread winner” job was NOT producing art.
    
    We need fail proof shields at TF. MAFIAA has opened the trolling cage and TF was lucky to receive the best of the worst.
- Anon
  
  You can always tell when someone’s mommy and daddy pay the rent. “I give everything away for free because I don’t have to pay any bills.” That isn’t reality for most of us.
  - Anonymous
    
    nice try, well not really, your failing at trolololing, please try again, if you want to work on your trolling skills check out sites like the megatokyo forums, most IRC chanels, and landoverbaptist forums.
- Friend of the People
  
  A question; why should art be completely disassociated from profit? If the artist creates something good enough to earn recognition, shouldn’t he be able to charge people for it?
  
  To clarify, what I am trying to ask is why he should dissociate his art from his profession. I don’t think that charging for art demeans your craft. Instead, it allows you to use your craft for personal gain as well as artistic expression. You seem to assume (and I am extrapolating meaning here, so please correct me if I am wrong) that art sold for profit has no distinction from art cynically created solely for the purpose of profit. Art is not demeaned if an artist profits from his work and can support himself on his work. Art is not demeaned even if the artist becomes rich from his work. Art is only demeaned if the artist forgoes creativity in order to follow a profitable formula at the expense of actual artistic expression.
  
  I think that there needs to be a recognition that profit from art is not necessarily a bad thing. Artists who create something that people love and are inspired by should have the right to request payment for their work. If someone does not want to pay them for their work, than they do not have the right to experience the work. That said, the current RIAA system is broken. Helping artists succeed outside of the current system (at the artist’s will to be outside of the system, not our will) is a noble endeavor.
  
  I think that last paragraph was getting a bit tangential, so I think I’ll end it here.
  - Anonymous
    
    I have no problem with an artist selling their art, BUT when an artist turns their art into a job, it almost always ends up being production line blah that comes out, not art, because they gotta keep making money off sales.
    
    My highschool art teacher was a teacher because she didnt want to keep putting out stuff that was less then her best work just to pay bills, she still painted and made pottery, but she did it at her own pace and had a job that paid the bills and gave her insurance.
    
    I know what you are saying but, having seen what happens when “Art” becomes “job” I cant agree that somebody whos working for money to live is purely an artist, because they cant be, they have to make a living so they shill themselves (make what they think will sell rather then making true art)
- Janeey
  
  Software/App development is not an art like making “hip-hop-esque music & instrumentals”. Not even close.
James

Rminds me of the e-mail message Hagel Technologies sent to those whom they had detected as running pirated versions of DU Meter. Can’t remember the exact figures, but the discount they were offering to obtain legitimate licenses for the software were rather hefty, and certainly convinced me to purchase their product. Their support team even helped me transission my settings, report data etc over to the newly licensed version, choosing not to comment on the fact that I had previously pirated their app.
- Ninja
  
  Pure win, I went for licensed copies of not so useful apps because I was offered this type of deal (ironically, the ‘trial’ version of the thing never expired and instead gave me a msg offering special discounts. Epic win)
James

Rminds me of the e-mail message Hagel Technologies sent to those whom they had detected as running pirated versions of DU Meter. Can’t remember the exact figures, but the discount they were offering to obtain legitimate licenses for the software were rather hefty, and certainly convinced me to purchase their product. Their support team even helped me transission my settings, report data etc over to the newly licensed version, choosing not to comment on the fact that I had previously pirated their app.
Anon

Didn’t the digital industry’s say “please” in the beginning, too? I think they did. Actually.
- Anonymous
  
  nope, having been here (on computers) since the days of the sneeker net, its always been threats and attacks, even scary rude offensive ads/posters/flyers, some of them made me want to copy the companies products and give away stacks of floppy’s in hopes of putting them out of business….
  
  if a program is worth what they are charging I buy it, if not, I dont.
  
  If music is worth buying, I buy it(if it lacks drm), if not then I dont, BUT I buy 2nd hand, because I DO NOT WANT THE RIAA GETTING MY FUCKING MONEY!!!!
  
  if a movie is worth buying, I buy it, again 2nd hand, because I dont want the MPAA getting a dime off of the sale.
  
  sorry, i know this hurts your tiny little troll brain, but some people have a different set of ethics then you do, some of us have ethical problems with DRM and how the RIAA(and their ilk) treat artists/bands/exct, or how companies like UBI and ATARI treat us all like we are theives when we buy their products at full retail cost….
Anon

Didn’t the digital industry’s say “please” in the beginning, too? I think they did. Actually.
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Nils

Is anyone else shocked that someone who can afford a rent higher than 1500$ is described as “not rich”?
- Gest
  
  That’s a one bed flat in London, infact, not a particularly good one either. He probably has an “average” wage. In the “US-vs-Them” world, that’s probably still poor.
  - Nils
    
    Assuming he spends minimum 1600$ on his rent, and that people usually spend at most 33% of their salary in the rent, that’s at the very least 4800$ a month.
    
    Man I’d love to be “not rich” like that.
    - Anonymous
      
      If you desired to have money as much as you claim, you wouldn’t be poor.
    - Gest
      
      I think right now people are spending a lot more than a third of their earnings on rent. The renting market is nasty, where people can’t afford to buy (which is almost impossible right now), they rent, meaning the renting market is quite competitive so prices slip upwards. Thats just my feeling from the market having had to do a lot of looking at rent prices prospectively.
      
      My OH spends around ~50% of her earnings on rent right now and that’s for a flat-share on her own.
    - Ferretlover
      
      Why would you assume that paying a large rent makes you rich? It is actually the other way around. Most single 20-30 year old somethings living in NY pay all of their money on rent and scrape whatever is left to have fun.
      
      God, I wish I was paying a dirt cheap rent like I used to before I moved to NYC. Now that was being rich. I had tons of money every month to blow on complete bullshit.
    - Anonymous
      
      protip: dont live in NY if you want affordable rent :P
- http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
  
  That’s not shocking at all. $1500 is moderate in big cities. I live in a small city, and rent here for a moderate apartment abode is nearly $800 (with only water included). I’m certainly not rich… In my tiny hometown, it’d be $600 for the privilege to live without fear of roaches.
  
  Then again, these things would only be known to those who DON’T live with mom and dad…
  - fagsuber
    
    I think bro you’re assuming that everyone who comments here is from the same country. :)
    1500 $ could rent me a house in my country ( and not a small one ;) )
    - http://www.facebook.com/mwonch Michael Wonch
      
      Wait… There are other countries? Nooooo…
  - Anonymous
    
    funny, tho i agree 600 is pretty avg rent for a 1/2 decent place, I have lived on my own and paid less without fear or roaches or rats, then again, I live in the northwest, not alot of roaches here, not alot of anything like that infact, fleas are the worst your likely to run across, or maby bedbugs if the house was furnished with stuff from aarons :P
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Anon

In NYC that’s a 200 sq ft studio with a small bed, window optional. Kids fresh out of school start at $50K here and go quickly up from there if they are good. If you can make it here you can make it anywhere. :-) Most can’t make it here. You actually have to work…. you know.
- Gest
  
  Yep, London it’s the same, give or take a foot or two.
  - Anon
    
    I shopped apartments in Kensington a few years back. Insane. I think London is more expensive than New York.
    - Ugly American
      
      Heh, try Park Avenue… ;-)
    - Ugly American
      
      Heh, try Park Avenue… ;-)
- Ugly American
  
  “Kids fresh out of school start at $50K here and go quickly up from there if they are good.”
  
  It depends on many factors – there is no “set” amount.
- Ugly American
  
  “Kids fresh out of school start at $50K here and go quickly up from there if they are good.”
  
  It depends on many factors – there is no “set” amount.
Monkey balls

Do you guys think that people in general will ever stop calling file sharing, Piracy?
Could they somehow start thinking again and retake their brains that the media has so craftily washed for them… or is that just too hard for them (to think for themselves).
Because what the fuck is a “pirate” but a guy (or gal) that sells stuff … and who the fuck is selling anything here?!
- IDIOCRACY
  
  No a pirate is a person that steels from the enemy (the spanish) for the good of his own goverment (Piet Hein / Michiel de Ruyter) to fund the war against the evil king of spain in the 80 year independence war of the Dutch around 1600
  
  LOL
- Neo
  
  Downloading something without the author’s express permission is piracy. Its the piracy that calls piracy as file sharing to make it sound as if they are doing good deed.
  - Ninja
    
    Actually, piracy is starting to get a good sound thanks to MAFIAA criminalizing children and grandmas. What better publicity can we get?
    
    But file sharing is a better word if you put ideology aside.
    - Ninja
      
      Have I mentioned you fail Neo?
    - Friend of the People
      
      You jumped the gun. His definition is actually reasonable. File sharing is a type of distribution and piracy is distribution without the creator’s permission. I’d say that’s pretty accurate. Neo may fail often, but here, he’s correct.
      
      Although yes, piracy is getting a better name thanks to the lawsuit-happy industry. That should change.
    - Donotreply
      
      ‘distribution without the creator’s permission.’
      
      That would be ‘copyright infringement’ if you want to be legally accurate.
    - Anonymous
      
      Actually by law piracy requires a physical product, what we are talking about here is copyright infringement as stated by Donotreply, you cant pass physical products over the internet, the tubes arent big enought :P
  - Anonymous
    
    yet another failed attempt at the trolololer coster….try again, if you need to bone up on how to troll, try megatokyo forums and landoverbaptist forums.
  - Travelsonic9
    
    Incorrect, it is called file-sharing because, *d’erp,* that’s the name of the goddammed protocol / system, and the verb associated with it as a result..
Suchenwi

A pirate can be many things these days..
- someone who by force takes power of ships on the high seas
- someone who copies a file from one computer to another
- a member of a Pirate Party, in over 40 countries worldwide (next Sunday, Pirates are on the voting ballots in Bremen, Germany, Barcelona, Spain, and elsewhere
- Thing
  
  What are you? A dictionary? :)
- Ugly American
  
  There’s one more: one who is a “freetard” but spends like hell on external devices, broadband, vpn, usenet, hosts, etc.
- Neo
  
  A pirate is also a thief and a freeloader.
  - Ninja
    
    Agreed, there are those types. But from your last failures.. I mean, comments, I know this is yet another failure. I feel like I’m stalking you in this article lol
  - Anonymous
    
    yet again, you fail at getting on the trollercoaster, I really hope you find some place to bush up your trolling skills, this is pathetic….starting to wonder if your a cs kiddy.
Pingback: P2PTalk » App Developer Fights Pirate With Politeness
http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat

File sharing merely reflects the health of your business.

Assuming a high income (good product), low means you business practices are good, high means you excluding potential customers some how.

In this case lack of payment options (comes under accessibility).
http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock

Great, sounds like that will work with movie piracy too.. After all a movie only costs 60 million.. Not much more than the $1500 it took here. It’s just a few more zeros! All the copyright industy has to do to stop pirates is just apologize! I bet isohunt, kickass torrents, and everyone else will happily close down their site then!

“The morality of pirating an app will be a topic that gets debated forever,” Chris told us. “If a starving kid steals a loaf of bread to feed himself, is that wrong? If a starving designer pirates a copy of a 700 dollar version of Photoshop, is that wrong?””
Yeah exactly! I can’t afford a race car, so i guess that means that I should go steal one! Oh and the startving kid.. wow, who would have ever known that pirated software can cure world hunger! The answer is finally here! All we have to do is ship a ton of CDs to somalia!
- Legion
  
  You’re more of a problem than Aids in Africa, why don’t you just fuck off :/
  - http://otester.myopenid.com/ PiRat
    
    He’s just a troll, click on his pic, real name, Eric Boehm.
    - http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock
      
      Wow, very amazing and insightful response. Now that I’ve been called a troll, I guess that means im wrong and you’re right.
    - Ugly American
      
      What makes you wrong, Eric, is the fact that you’re a spineless shill.
    - Neo
      
      You are a sad excuse for a human being. Stupid criminal.
    - Ninja
      
      “I’am a sad excuse for a human being.” There, corrected for you. I’d reply to Jackie too but the lvl of fail is too high for me to debug.
    - Ugly American
      
      “You are a sad excuse for a human being.”
      
      I should hope so! Humans fail – we Ugly Americans = superior. :-*
      
      “Stupid criminal.”
      
      Wrong – unlike you, I don’t work for the MAFIAA or remove anything (especially an artist’s rightful earnings under the guise of copywrong). You cancerous fucking hypocrite… <3
    - http://www.facebook.com/eric.boehm Jack Murdock
      
      Wow, very amazing and insightful response. Now that I’ve been called a troll, I guess that means im wrong and you’re right.
- Glib
  
  Is stealing a vanity item the same as stealing something you need to live? That’s a quality parallel right there.
- Xult
  
  I can tell you are very level headed Jack/eric.
  Shit dribbles out both corners of your mouth at once.
  - Ugly American
    
    It’s not shit – it’s MAFIAA cum.
    - Anon
      
      This particular American has an obsession with butt plugs, anuses and cum. Nothing new to see here.
    - Neo
      
      As his name says, he is an Ugly American who probably gives men BJs for a living.
    - Ninja
      
      Envious?
    - Ugly American
      
      It’s obvious I struck a nerve – looks like “Neo” is hiding in the old closet.
      
      Fvcking turd burglar.
    - Anonymous
      
      I invision neo, Anon and jack being like an even more pathetic version of “Berry” from “zack and miri make a porno” but rather then bubbles its some fat mafiaa ceo whos pounding that ass as they say to themselves “take it berry, take it”
    - Ninja
      
      And nothing wrong I might add ;)
    - Ugly American
      
      …unless one is anal – which he proudly is.
      
      Fight for your gay rights, Neo! Don’t be ashamed of who you are! STAND PROUD!
    - Anon
      
      This particular American has an obsession with butt plugs, anuses and cum. Nothing new to see here.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IZ5BM5GNLA54OADSWGSXAMA7SY Jay
  
  “Great, sounds like that will work with movie piracy too.. After all a movie only costs 60 million.. Not much more than the $1500 it took here. It’s just a few more zeros! All the copyright industy has to do to stop pirates is just apologize!”
  
  Look up Nina Paley and Kevin Smith. Then we can talk.
- Ninja
  
  FOR GOD SAKE STOP FAILING JACK! I care for you so please stop, it’s better for your health. Mental specifically.
  
  You DON’T NEED the damned car. You don’t EAT the damned car. The damned designer that is having problems will buy the damned copy when he has the chance.
  
  Arrr, are you competing with Neo to see who fails more?
  - Friend of the People
    
    Can I say something? He isn’t a designer until he actually has the requirements to design and is designing something. Until then, he just hopes to be a designer. If he needs money to get the design program, he should do what other people hoping to start businesses do; get a loan. He can pay back the loan. There are legal ways to do this.
    - Anonymous
      
      yeah, that or he could just pimp your mother on the street corner for a few days, that should do the trick…..
Anonymous

Wow, never thought about it like that before. Makes sense dude. Wow.
internet-privacy.at.tc
Moshec

My browser’s got tude, It just said it redirecting me to the F***ing word of the day!
FuzzyDuck

It’s a nice story, but I don’t agree with this statement of yours Ernesto: “No one wants to see the work they have to live off being copied for free,”

An artist like Nina Paley might beg to differ.

As would a small time developer like myself. I want nothing more than that people copy some of the stuff I have made available.
Signup Bob

Nice to see a quality, wide ranging discussion (certain exceptions notwithstanding), very interesting and makes a change from “You”, “No you!, “No, No you!” type shouting that can, occasionally take over. (:{)
Foff

Nice story but so what. Nobody asked the developer to write the app so who cares what he spent on it. Those who pirate are not the only customers out there. If they app is good there will be plenty of paying customers.

As far as actors go. I say F U any industry where pre pubescent Disney muchkins or little biebers can make millions while the rest of us work hard our whole lives for a bare living can go suck it. I have no respect and no sympathy for that industry.
- Anon
  
  “I have no respect and no sympathy”
  
  No, but a rampant and noticable envy. lol
  
  They earn because they are better than you. People pay for things they like and you aren’t one of those things. Get used to it.
  - Anonymous
    
    nice attempt at trolololing, but, sorry to say, you still fail it, so much fail, so little time….
DRuNKeN MaSTeR

Many people would buy stuff. I they only had the means. This is also an example.

Content is not available everywhere, every time. Please keep that in mind. There is also a part of the World *outside* of the USA, where movies arrive with months of delay, apps can’t be bought on the Android Market, because of stupid policies, etc…
12345

Well I think this sums it up, I too am a avid pirate, an have stolen lots of software, now i dont do anything with most of it other than learn how to use it and try to produce other stuff for other people, sure i pirate games and music as well but if you check out my steam account i have pay for a fair amount of games as well, i have no issue paying for stuff that is awesome, and I try to balance my karma by doing good stuff in life, am I a bad guy not sure but thats my life and i try to life it on my terms, is the world going to stop not sure, maybe one day.
Delong

Wow what a nice guy, too nice….someone crack that app, lol.
Jayleno

really devs?

http://youtu.be/0l0mW2DxTK4
Another Chris

Sure beats Eidos’s response:

“It’s not a bug in the game’s code, it’s a bug in your moral code.”
Benedict XVI

The law, in it’s majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in streets and to sell bread – Anatole France
Brinbiss

Its nice to see people not fowling up the internet with… Ah, never mind. :)

I think it is up to every individual to chose to pirate or not. I can understand people who need, but can’t pay for software pirating. On the other hand, the old rule of the Internet still stands today: Popular software with price tag = Popular PIRATED software for free.

~123blissb
- Anonymous
  
  the funny part is, popular software with a reasonable/good price tag still gets pirated BUT to a much lesser degree then stuff like photoshop where the pricetag for a personal use copy is so stupidly high that most people cant afford it, at least not if they want to be able to buy food that month.
  - Silver
    
    IIRC it was Autodesk who did a presentation where the guy said he didn’t care if college kids downloaded the software.
    
    When they become employable their employers will fork out $2000 per license.
    - Anonymous
      
      to be honest, thats how alot of companies look at it, they get you hooked early on, and then you get a job that requires your employer to have their software, all win for them.

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