BitTorrent’s Future? Decentralized Search and Hosting

Ernesto
January 9, 2010
109
bittorrent,
frostwire
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BitTorrent’s future might look grim to some, as torrent sites increasingly draw the short straw in legal cases brought on by copyright holders. But even if all torrent sites on the net were shut down tomorrow, the sharing wont stop. People could simply switch to P2P-powered torrent search engines.

frostwire In part due to legal troubles, BitTorrent could, in time, be forced to move away from a centralized approach where torrent files are stored on a central sever, and centralized trackers are used to facilitate communicate between peers.

Last November The Pirate Bay shut down its own trackers, arguing that they have been made redundant by DHT and PEX. At the same time, The Pirate Bay team said that they might move away from torrents entirely and switch to offering Magnet links instead.

These are all interesting developments, but to really decentralize BitTorrent one has to take it up a notch. The way most torrent sites are setup makes them vulnerable to legal action from copyright holders, so the real solution might be to move away from web-based torrent indexes.

A rather primitive way to do this is to share torrents over another file-sharing network, and this is exactly what the Gnutella/BitTorrent client Frostwire has now made possible. Without any public announcement and stuffed away in the changelog of FrostWire’s upcoming release we find the following lines:

- New Feature: Gnutella Torrent Search. FrostWire now can search for .torrent metadata files in the Gnutella network.
- Upgraded feature: Optionally FrostWire will copy all .torrent meta files to a shared torrent folder.

Technically speaking these are just minor adjustments to the file-sharing application, but the implications could trigger a revolution in how torrents are shared in the future.

When FrostWire users start downloading a torrent with FrostWire, the client will keep and share the .torrent file on Gnutella. The idea is that as time goes by and more users download more torrents, even if torrent websites are shutdown, all the torrents will live on the P2P network forever.

To make it easier to find torrents on Gnutella, FrostWire also added a specialized “Torrent Search Mode”. As more users install this and later versions – and keep downloading more torrents – the richer these search results will be.

Now FrostWire only needs to offer support for trackerless torrents and they will have completely decentralized the BitTorrent operation with just a few simple adjustments.

Although we believe that FrostWire’s approach is interesting, it will also introduce one major problem. It is relatively easy to make a P2P-powered torrent index, but keeping it clean and malware-free will prove to be very difficult.

Most people might not even be aware of it, but one of the benefits of most torrent sites is that they remove thousands of torrents linking to spam and fake files every day. This will be much harder to do in a P2P-based environment, but not entirely impossible.

Over the last five years the Tribler BitTorrent client has been working on a decentralized torrent index that would make BitTorrent sites obsolete. Unlike simply sharing the torrent files among users, the upcoming release of the Tribler client has built in several spam control and moderation options that allow users to keep the network clean. In addition, newly created torrents can be shared with peers, instead of uploading it to a central server.

We don’t know if FrostWire has plans to implement similar moderation options, but they are absolutely required for a fully decentralized BitTorrent environment.

It will be interesting to see if the idea of a P2P powered and searchable BitTorrent index takes off. For now there are still plenty of good and reliable torrent sites out there, but with continued pressure from the entertainment industry they are not to be taken for granted.

Disclaimer: FrostWire is a TorrentFreak sponsor.

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Zwartbaard

I doubt this will be the future. This new system needs to be RIAA prove. When everyone takes decentralized torrent hosting in use, where goes the trust? How can one verify if a file is real, and not tracked by the RIAA/MPAA? I mean, these are issued that need to be thought of, before implementing a real decentralized system.
Phogo

Interesting….

*starts work on new project*
Matt

Tribler has already implemented distributed search and tracking .

http://www.tribler.org/trac
Max

A good outcome of this could be, no more dead torrents!
Realist

@2 well said
guy

if only frostwire didnt suck as a bittorrent client…
Reke h

- New Feature: Gnutella Torrent Search. FrostWire now can search for .torrent metadata files in the Gnutella network.

people have been sharing torrent files on ed2k/kad since bt was heard of mainstream. Keep sharing
http://www.sharereactor.com
bootytape.com

there would have to be some sort of voting system like some torrent indexers have but I think there would need to be more than 5 votes to say it’s real. A good 20 votes saying a torrent is real is good enough for me.
Matthew

I agree with Zwartbaard. Stop that lame ass first and second crap; It’s just childish and immature. As long as tpb keeps changing where they keep their servers in terms of countries where p2p is more relaxed, than we are safe for the next few years.
Trellmor

I wonder why there are no Tor hidden service torrent index sites. Sound link a pretty neat idea to hide the server inside Tor and use an open tracker and/or DHT/PEX for tracking.

Bittorrent traffic could still go over the internet to get decent speed.

I’m pretty sure that this could be built into a bittorent client to make it automatically search torrents on this hidden service.

Or what’s about Freenet? It should be possible to store torrent files there or host a website to distribute torrents inside Freenet.
Hom3r

KCEasy as well as other p2p apps have had torrent search for a while.

I personally think we will move to linking magnet links on Freenet/usenet type networks
AlienDK

Catfish!
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3R4ZOR

The centralized aproch has been proved wrong from many years now. The centralized approach is an error already payed in the past by lots of ed2k servers that were shut down. Thats why the KAD network was born. Real filesharing!!
cvc

Won’t the copyright holders just go after Gnutella / FrostWire now and bring them to court for facilitating copyright infringement.
TPM

@Zwartbaard

Any torrent on any tracker could be tracked by the MAFIAA, it’s not rocket science, so your point is moot. All that matters is release quality (and not being fake or scamware) and such flags can be implemented in a decentralized system, via user comments/votes.

I personally see torrent sites as a handy catalog with pics and additional info (other than the .nfo) about a release. So switching them off completely would do nothing more than take the “GUI” out of torrenting. Sure, it’s less convenient but you still get your content.
flamsmark

The rating, malware and spam detection functions currently held by torrent sites could conceivably be transparently implemented with public-key infrastructure.

Each instance of a torrent client generates its own key-pair. When a torrent is completed, the client asks the user if the torrent was of good quality, what it claimed to be, malware-free &c. The user’s response is concatenated with the torrent file, and signed, and the client publishes that signature through the torrent-publishing mechanism. The client also records which signers agreed and disagreed with the user’s assessment. As the client accumulates data of this kind, it can make assessments about whether the user will find a torrent file appropriate based on who has signed it as being good or bad.
Matt

@14 they are open source and you can update through the client and p2p nextwork like the Japanese p2p clients do like Winny ,Share and the latest incarnation Perfect Dark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark_(P2P)
Matt

@14 they are open source and you can update through the client and p2p network like the Japanese p2p clients do like Winny ,Share and the latest incarnation Perfect Dark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Dark_(P2P)
Anonymous

The comments section on sites like Demonoid are the best way to determine if a file is legit or virus infected or of good quality. Hopefully there will be some way to do the same for this new method of file sharing. Perhaps a sort of blog with comments on the magnet files would work.
Matt

@19 Tribler are working on that
rawr

demonoid is infested with bs number 19….

also, torrents are merely a distraction, direct dl (from r$ accounts to u$enet) will always be better than torrents (besides the no ratio that you leechers complain about when it comes to good sites that you can’t get into anyway)…

Once torrents die out people will go back to dling at full speed every time (and not just when an upper is actually not completely retarded and has a box).

also lol TF
Zwartbaard

@15 – TPM

Good point, yeah. But, second point you make is kinda doubtful. Where are those comments/flags stored, since everything, including hosting, is decentralized? That basically means you have to rely on a peer to save those comments. That is not workable, and not practical. So, either you will need a server, to keep track of stuff like those comments/flags, or you`ll need to do it some other way, like ED2K does (with some root servers). But that takes the point away of decentralizing, because then people still get blackmailed, and threatened with lawsuits.

Sooo….
Reasoned Mind

The industry would love this development. They’d flood the network with trojan horse music files that look normal and dl normally then phone home everytime you are online.

lol
Think, then write.
Yatti420

I use frostwire for individual files instead of cruddy limewire… Still don’t use it for torrents though..
Reasoned Mind

“Won’t the copyright holders just go after Gnutella / FrostWire now and bring them to court for facilitating copyright infringement.”

Save that this will not accomplish anything since people will continue to use the corresponding client.

Winny development stop long time ago but score of people are still using it.
prodigydancer

What we need is an integrated BitTorrent/DHT+ED2K/KAD client with an ability to search both networks simultaneously. This would be a nice first step towards bringing all P2P networks together.

The community needs to be united.
Anonymous

@22

Obvious troll is obvious.
mister_playboy

Complaining about first posts? You must be new here. It’s an Internet wide phenomenon. Part of the fun of doing it is to see all the complaints it creates. Boo hoo…

I have my doubts about whether this decentralized model will work out, but it goods to see moves in that direction. I exchanged LimeWire for FrostWire on a friend’s computer recently, and it’s good to see it become a more technically capable program.
prodigydancer

@21/Zwartbaard
“That basically means you have to rely on a peer to save those comments. That is not workable, and not practical.”

Wrong. KAD’s been used this approach for years and it works quite well.
RoestVrijStaal

FrostWire is not the only Gnutella-client what you could use for this trick to find torrent files. Shareaza, Phex, Cabos and gtk-Gnutella can do the same trick @ the Gnutella network, also you can find torrents at other networks like The Ares-network with Ares and Edonkey2000-network with eMule. Choices unlimited.

But please keep in mind the torrents you find @p2p networks are not validated. You can catch up a MAFIAA-peer with corrupted/fake content or (torrents itself) easily without warning or notice.
cvc

@24

Good point :)

Thanks
Duplicator

@22: Trojan “music” files? What are you talking about? Music files have no code to execute, and unless those use exploits (which get fixed anyway) of the player, which is also illegal btw (or is it only illegal when it concerns others than you and your kin?), then I’d say either:

1) ditch your stupid exploitable music player (hypothetically, if it even does exist…)

2) who the **** doesn’t have a good FIREWALL these days? you know firewalls warn you when an app tries to connect somewhere — and ask you to allow it or not. only an idiot like you would accept it!

3) if it’s a virus rather than a trojan, well, you should learn some simple ways to neutralize and protect yourself (and that applies anywhere online, not just torrents, for goodness’ sake!) — a sandbox, virustotal.com, stuff like that.
yosh

Well, this doesn’t have to be used for copyright infringement at all. It takes away the need of having centralized servers increasing the company’s revenue. Just implicating this technique isn’t enough to be sued, it’s just a technological development.
\\.neo.styles|sSG

If sites wish to conceal their facilitation of infringement, they will find no recourse in simpply adopting new technologies. If they do not take steps to prevent their services from being used to exchange copyright material, they will be targeted by the law all the same.

People were saying the same thing about bittorrent after people got fines for downloading songs with limewire or kazaa back when the P2P revolution started. People said “bittorrent is different. It’s decentralized. No one is going to get caught.”
RoestVrijStaal

@Duplicator
Mp3 files can’t be indeed used for trojans. But other music / multimedia files that use scripting can open your browser to a dangerous website. AFAIK wma, wmv, and qt files can do that.

It is recommend to turn off scripting in all the media players you use.
joeynj

thirty-third!
Kapcha

Decentralized filesharing is good, for sure. But there is a very big lack of Magnet links: you can not choose the location for downloading files on your computer. And you also can not choose what files from torrent you will download and what files you will skip.
ET

lets think about this. decentralised system will work but the quality will go down – like in kazaa etc.

however, with a systen whereby you have no ip and only a log in name would work. and also a system where you could verfiy like SFV the file before downloading could work. and then handshake the download. and if the file proves fake then you should be able to one way tag the file as fake… it would only take a matter of hours for fakes to be cleanized. and verified.
but it wont stop the fakes and spams.
however i think a torrenting system that does a more indepeth handshake on the original file when its created and has unique marker placed with the torrent file to distingish authentisity would ultimately cure the fake when its open and loaded.
because any fake put on would be spotted and marked one way… and because of the more thorough torrent authentication process would stop people corrupting torrents!

thats my three way system decentrailised.

http://www.epictorrents.com
prodigydancer

@31/RoestVrijStaal
“wma, wmv, and qt”

Just stop using crappy proprietary file formats. ;-)
nah in bmore

@35 I agree….all those are crappy formats anyway. One thing I notice is opensource formats tend to be better and safer….(OGG FLAC MKV)

anyway… Its good to see Gnutella/Frostwire/Limewire trying to make a resurgance, but seriously I doubt this would work….There would need to be some major modifications with how the Frostwire client works now for this to be successful… the main issue is spam torrents would proliferate…there needs to be a commenting like ability or better yet as hash calculation of every torrent available, and then that could be linked to the comments on the Bitzi lookup index….that may work but eventually users would get tired of it…so better yet, Frostwire would need to be able to scrape open trackers hosted in foreign countries (like Krygrystan or whatever) and display in Frostwire….or at least display comments hosted on bitzi..
werd

What we need is a “transmission” protocol rather than file serving protocol. If the protocol only ever serves say part of a file (a different part of each user) and only in segments that does not on its own constitudes even a small clip of the file, then it does not constitudes a copy, but just part of a “transmission channel“.

If they have a problem with that it would be like billing me for a TV channel I never view – oh wait, they do that too :).

Each file should not be cut in sequential blocks (which could be argued to contain a 2 second clip) but say cut into 2000 segments where segment N consist of the collection of every N-th byte in the file. Every user should only serve up a random 90% of the file.

That way no-one can claim that any copies where made available by any one user (accept the original uploader). An since the law is all about copies, no law was broken.
Ninja

I believe we’ll see some hybrid model in the future where some central servers help to keep the community clean just like openbt and other open trackers help keeping the newly created torrents healthy so DHT will help out afterwards (ie: magnets will get more peers from DHT)…

It’s a nice start and I’m sure it’ll mature with time. We may be losing more battles but the war is ours. MAFIAA’s actions are just bringing more ppl into filesharing and making it evolve faster =)

Reasoned Mind should be ignored for his obvious trolls or baseless comments. Each time he posts it gets more obvious he has connections to such industry and, like Bono and other puppets that actually make money out of the current model just because they are famous, is just spilling what his bosses taught him without looking at the other side with the depth he should.

cheers
Anonymous

@33

Decentralized filesharing is good, for sure. But there is a very big lack of Magnet links: you can not choose the location for downloading files on your computer. And you also can not choose what files from torrent you will download and what files you will skip.

Why would your torrent client prevent you from doing any of these things after loading up the .torrent thru a magnet link?
Reasoned Mind

Decentralized search rulez
Anonymous

The future of file sharing = virtual hosting/virtual distribution.
Finnerty

Moderation is the keyword. Human moderators keep the sites useful. P2P lacks human moderation – lacks a web of trust.

Add a human moderated web of trust to a P2P system and you will have something interesting and useful.

Allow a “Franks Torrents” p2p stream which Frank has control over, and everyone else can browse or post to with Frank’s moderation.

I don’t know why P2P systems never seem to get this.
Reasoned Mind

Yep me too
Bing

I’ve ben using torrents for long, but have never experimented with other p2p networks except gnutella. Can anyone suggest me a good user-friendly application for my PC, which supports most p2p networks (viz. gnutella, kad, eDonkey etc.) and is well protected and maintained!!
Bing

I’ve ben using torrents for long, but have never experimented with other p2p networks except gnutella. Can anyone suggest me a good user-friendly application for my PC, which supports most p2p networks (viz. gnutella, kad, eDonkey etc.) and is well protected and maintained!! Magnet and Torrent support would obviously be a added advantage :P
Anonymous

Way back in 2004 when Suprnova was forced offline, people were making these same points about the advantage of decentralized torrents — a quality that was supposed to propel “Bittorrent replacement” Exeem to the forefront of file sharing.

Only it never happened. Exeem fizzled and Bittorrent soared to new heights, with new torrent sites quickly popping up and taking over where Suprnova left off.
Unauthorized Content Consumer

It is preferable to run an encrypted VPN of worldwide grid computers where those who join the grid volunteer their bandwidth and resources. Being that everything on the network would be encrypted and the cops and the media corporations confiscate a computer, the data is useless as it is encrypted and fragmented which is completely useless on it’s own and no proof of any crime.

Each computer on the grid would generate it’s own 128-bit encryption key at short intervals and if one computer gets confiscated all of it’s encrypted and fragmented data becomes useless.

This type of network could be open-source so bugs and exploits would become instantly known around the world.

Not only will this completely void copyrights this would end the battle between corporations and unauthorized content consumers. This would end the life of the obsolete business models forcing them to die or to evolve. They have consistantly shown their unwillingness to evolve so their extinction is inevitable.

This will mean that artists will be also forced to evolve and adapt in order to survive. Only the truly talented and those that are willing to work for their money will survive. Gone will be the manufactured “artists” that deserve to go extinct.

It’s called evolution and it’s already happening before our very eyes.

Lastly, my encrypted VPN grid computing model has uses for the sharing of all information and media applications, including closed/private commercial applications that the media corporations could find useful to help them evolve to our technology.

The corporations are too stupid to listen or understand though. xD
pd

This is still centralised. It just centralises the focus on the developers of the client software – just like the olden days with KaZaa and Napster.

This is not a solution. The courts will just be flooded with cases aiming to kill Frostwire, Tribler etc
anon

Did they take openbittorrent down? the site isnt responding and neither is the tracker on my torrents.
ws

i’m drunk and need a bj, Any decentralized honey available?
knux

“Disclaimer: FrostWire is a TorrentFreak sponsor.”

So how much you getting paid to post that? Really? How about taking the Google approach and not talking about your sponsors and advertising. You are being intrusive and are quickly losing any respect that was previously granted, hope it’s worth it…
Drake3

“If they do not take steps to prevent their services from being used to exchange copyright material, they will be targeted by the law all the same.

People said “bittorrent is different. It’s decentralized. No one is going to get caught.”

We are still sharing though. So many different mediums have come and gone, but that simple fact has not changed. I do not suspect it ever will either.

“So how much you getting paid to post that? Really? How about taking the Google approach and not talking about your sponsors and advertising. You are being intrusive and are quickly losing any respect that was previously granted, hope it’s worth it…”

I for one am glad that they added the disclaimer. Now as for the article itself, as long as it doesn’t keep them from posting the important news I am fine with it. Though if it gets too frequent I would desire it be placed in a different section.
FreeSCV

Werd, Love #2 saying “starts working”

Awesome attitude about it.

I was thinking that comments on it would help or even a voting system of yes/no would be nice.

mp3′s (unfortunately, lmao) have id3 tags. provides more info about the song (misinformation some times, lol)

if torrents had tags on them for working or not, it’d be nice. everyone able to add in comment tags? is that possible w/o malware guys wrecking it?
Freedom.Fighter

@22 Zwartbaarb:
You asked where ratings and comments and flags would be kept. In a system like the one suggested by @15 TPM or even better @16 Flamsmark all you would need is a minor protocol change that would allow for a dynamic torrent link that contained the +/- votes on if it’s a fake, good quality, etc. This information would then be distributed through the decentralized network as part of the torrent file, so any one who had the torrent would simply download it as if it were any other file in a .torrent. I’m not intimately familiar with the protocol itself, only it’s uses, but I doubt it would be terribly difficult.

@56:
You raise a great example about id3 tags. A similar protocol could certainly work for .torrent, if a little time were put in by some creative developers. Coders out there, are you listening?

Finally, for those saying that the MAFIAA would simply go after clients:
They couldn’t. A client only enables the use of a legal and efficient transfer protocol. That’s why bittorrent clients have gone to court yet. The protocol is legal. The ability to utilize it is legal. Even in the US where copyright is out of control there are protections for the protocol itself. And if an open-source community based client were created around the new system and .torrent format, it couldn’t be taken to court as it would have no real developer or crew to sue. Just a thought.
Cujo

one could scatter the torrent files or magnet links all over the internet then open a free!! advertizing site so if u want to show off the great piece of digital content you got , u post it(linking to the offical site) and then use a havester similar to http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Torrent-Harvester-Download-34987.html to find the scattered ect..ect..ect ,, make any sense ,, i think i just confused myself :D
Bodge

@54

This is a nice change to Frostwire, and even if they weren’t sponsors of TF, it probably would have been touched on anyway. The whole piracy movement is about things in the open. Why are you bitching when they are being transparent?
Reasoned Mind

I’m an obvious troll…

… and you know that
RoestVrijStaal

@prodigydancer: Do you really think I use those formats? :þ
I’m smart enough to not download them, I just said it for the other people who don’t know the danger of those formats. ;-)
Anonymous

whats happening with eztv and tpb
both are down, most worrying about eztv is that is hasn’t released anything for over 24 hours and stuff is up, just elsewhere
Donkey Pirate

11 Jan 09, 2010 at 22:39 by Hom3r
KCEasy
Wow I downloaded the client like forever ago and didn’t know it still worked.
I always wanted to try it but never got around to it (it got hidden in unused desktop
Icons) thanks for reminding me. I’ve had it since back in the kaza lite k++ days. I think
I upgraded it a few times. Will give it a try tks..

14 Jan 09, 2010 at 23:14 by cvc
Won’t the copyright holders just go after Gnutella / FrostWire now and bring them to court for facilitating copyright infringement.
They already have and limewire said shove it after saying that they were going to put in a filter in the program bud as of this date it hasn’t been put in. To combat this FrostWire was born just in case.

@26 Jan 10, 2010 at 00:14 by prodigydancer
What we need is an integrated BitTorrent/DHT+ED2K/KAD client with an ability to search both networks simultaneously. This would be a nice first step towards bringing all P2P networks together.
The community needs to be united.
Sharaza the real one not mafia takeover one. See sourceforge for real one

@46 Jan 10, 2010 at 06:33 by Finnerty
Moderation is the keyword. Human moderators keep the sites useful. P2P lacks human moderation – lacks a web of trust.
Add a human moderated web of trust to a P2P system and you will have something interesting and useful.
Allow a “Franks Torrents” p2p stream which Frank has control over, and everyone else can browse or post to with Frank’s moderation.
I don’t know why P2P systems never seem to get this.
Mafia would love this
Even reason mind agrees

47 Jan 10, 2010 at 06:48 by Reasoned Mind
Yep me too

—————————————————-
@51 unauthorized cons.
Something like this does exist where people volunteer their hard drive space and everything is encrypted In cyberspace and the user has no idea or what is being stored at their end/etc but I think its seen as the same as running a tor node (getting raided, being labeled a paedo etc by the papers/etc) not a good idea atm, needs work dumb people shutting down/false media
Black Swan

@62 : 0bvious impostor is obvious.
anon

That’s why long after all the torrent website owners/admins are in jail, filehosting solutions will still be used. Rapidshare FTW!
Anonymous

@65

Something like this does exist where people volunteer their hard drive space and everything is encrypted In cyberspace and the user has no idea or what is being stored at their end/etc but I think its seen as the same as running a tor node (getting raided, being labeled a paedo etc by the papers/etc) not a good idea atm, needs work dumb people shutting down/false media

You refer to Freenet. I for one think it’s a great idea. True anonymity is the only way to guarantee free speech. Nothing whatsoever is censored on Freenet because of how it’s built. Child porn might be an unfortunate byproduct of this lack of control- though I should point out that a lot of people who index freesites won’t link to child porn- but you can’t censor something without compromising the entire point of the project.

And I think the notion that “just because you run Freenet/encrypt your communications/encrypt your files/etc means you’re guilty of something” is stupid. People have a right to their privacy, regardless of whether that privacy can be used to commit thoughtcrime.
duane

I seem to recall a paper about improving the efficiency of torrent networks by using a similarity measure between unrelated files to find parts that are the same.

Downloading file A could get blocks from file B that are the same, even though the files themselves are different.

If that is put in place, then there will never be a way to prove WHAT any user is downloading. Illegal files will seem benign and vice-versa.
duane

Additionally, this site needs voting on comments. Users will be able to single out trolls by down-voting their comments.

Perhaps YouTube’s system is appropriate: too many -1s on a comment and it’s hidden.
SteWieH

*el yawn*just the same ole bullshit. How many times have we heard that torrent are in jeopadryof dieing and there some new “revolution” way they are making that will supersucceed bit torrent. example: exeem. hyped about. here one day, gone the very same. I havent really heard much about it really except that it failed its “purpose” of its life. so they are changing to “magnet” links. itsnt it basically another way of just downloading a torrent? ohhh Im soo excited they figured another way!. why not just change all torrent files to txt? that ne even better!
short line. I srsly dont see BT going anywheres for an extremely long ass time.
also Im not going to loose any sleep about TPB going down. to me its just the same as demonoid.
kabuki0009

it seems things ant’s so bad after all
anonymous

it would be nice to have a feature that scans your content and tags it all up with thumbnails and information similar to how XBMC does it, and extracts your archives to allow for streaming

so that someone searching for “spider man” for example would be presented with the movie posters the file name a quick plot etc, which they could then click which would stream instantly on popular files and download at the same time so the user could check the quality

and of course a area for comments/rating system
Luke Henry

The Pirate Bay and EZTV are down for me. I’m on Cogeco in Canada , anyone else having issues ?
Kapcha

@74
The same problem in Europe…
Anonymous

The perfect P2P client:

- Has a “reputation system” where people can see from who the torrent is and how people rank that person and that person would still be anonymous.

- voting system that could be done by all nodes adding a good or no good signature like bitcoin does.

- Is anonymous preferably using a DC-net protocol not the onion.

That is all.

Osiris Serveless Portal have done much of the work already, bitcoin solves some other issues too, the technology is already here is just waiting for somebody to do the work.
Anonymous

The protocol could also transfer instead of blocks of data blocks of math formulas that describe the data.

A binary string is just a big number that can be represented mathematically so this also solve the problem with filters as you can create infinite numbers of formulas to describe the same thing. Just don’t make the blocks to large to compute and any computer can do it in a timely manner.
Anonymous

And my preferred solution of all.

Just dump copyright content is crap anyways.

For music I’m using magnatune and jamendo and I have no problem with it they have all the music I will ever need and it is free with free licenses that let you do what you want.

If you buy CDs or go to shows from copyrighted artists you are funding those people that want to hurt you and your rights.

Force them to comply by not using their crap and not financing them.

When you go out search for bands that give you something. Those bands are using CC commons sharealike, copyleft and GPL licenses.

Change the way you consume media and the MAFIAA will be forced to change too. If you buy or use copyrighted stuff you are stating that they have something that you can’t live without it.

I don’t support copyright and don’t give money to those pigs. If the choice is to no listen or watch anything from them and have my rights back there is no question about it. I dump the bastards.
Donkey Pirate

@74 The Pirate Bay Is Down, Back Soon http://freakbits.com/the-pirate-bay-is-down-back-soon-0110
Zwartbaard

@58 – Freedom Fighter

Yeah, but that basically gives the MAFIAA all the freedom. If what you say is true, they could produce malicious torrents, with ratings which overblow all the rest. I mean, if a user needs to get the torrent from the “swarm”, he could be downloading a “MAFIAA produced” torrent, with faked comments, eh?

Or am I thinking the wrong way, and is there a way to check it with checksums or something?
Zwartbaard

@ 78 & 79 – TorrentWiki

Ghehe, a wiki which uses a static (weblog-like) page? There is nothing wiki about it. What is the point of that site?
Borderliner

@ 77
This would be somewhat difficult, as the equation needs to be smaller than the result, otherwise we´ll be wasting additional bandwidth. Not to mention the burden on the CPU generating the equation of the data from received equation.
Remember whu BT is so good in the first place – it´s only meant for distribution, no searching and other funkctions which require BW/CPU are handled by the protocol ;)

As far as I remember (some?) ED2K clients already provide a commenting function where users can leave a note on a file. Only thing needed is that such comment get displayed rightaway when loading a link/torrent and are not hidden in some x menu. The comments tghemselves don´t have to be decentrakized, but an independant server could store them. A hash (not neccessarily even a magnet link) with a bunch of comment should be legal enoguh for the server to not worry abput MPAA/RIAA&pals.
Cyko_01

so basically what you are saying is that the future of BT is to go the way of all the other P2P apps?

This does not solve anything, it only switches the target from the torrent sites to the software developers – which means fewer targets which would make it EASIER to shut down.

Oh yea, and shareaza can already do all the stuff mentioned about frostwire
anon

It should be pointed out that LimeWire (which FrostWire was forked from) has had torrent search for quite a while now. I don’t believe they have a “Torrents” category, but you can search for torrent files and download them.

Not to mention LimeWire is using libtorrent, whereas I’m pretty sure FrostWire is still using LimeWire’s crappy old bittorrent implementation that has been banned from many trackers.
Mindless

Solution could be . Adding files to the transfer. Like the ability to add .txt files.
Then ppl can add there comments . You can grab the txt files from the pack and see what others who have grabbed it say about it .
Obviously these could be faked . But its an idea.
xentar

For now, I still have hopes for a legal solution in the foreseeable future. Decentralization is good as a back-up option but torrent sites have a lot of advantages.
Anonymous

@76

The reputation system is overrated, and is played by a bunch of children trigger happy on the reputation system.
There needs to be a moderation for that, instead of loose rep points given out for no reason.

And how would you trust an anonymous user with good rep?
Can anonymous #23 be more trusted based on these rep points more than anonymous #76?
WonderWhy

Wonder why latest version of FrowstWire is asking for access to activate.adobe.com. If refused access FW just won´t start !?

Can anyone explain this, no other adobe applications were open at the time of installation !?
Pingback: BitTorrent's Future? Decentralized Search and Hosting | TorrentFreak | Artyku?yNet
meh

@83 Jan 10, 2010 at 17:57 by Zwartbaard

@ 78 & 79 – TorrentWiki

Ghehe, a wiki which uses a static (weblog-like) page? There is nothing wiki about it. What is the point of that site?

Wiki’s have been declared legal by the courts and can not be forced to be removed or taken down by any order. The government said that they are too good in whistleblower cases and to expose gov corruption so they stay. They are 100% legal all wiki’s. :-) Tis why its there
Mr. Private

Blah blah blah… I can’t believe I jus read all these comments. Now more than ever there is less of a reason for me to care… If you use public trackers or Louella network you are asking to be caught anyways.. usenet and pvt trackers FTW!!! Hopefully you n00b5 will create something new and glorious so that BREIN, MPIAA, and RIAA can chase after it instead of what the grownups are using lol.
Camelot

before the P2p torrent search, I think that magnet link will be the near future of torrent websites… magnetz.org is a website that offers magnet links only, in a cool mininova-based interface..
Mr. Private

* Gnutella rofl
h33t

if anyone here is old enough to remember Kazaa then they will know how frustrating p2p can be. you spend all your time dodging fakes and mislabeled files

nothing you can introduce into a decentralized p2p system is gonna stop the MAFIAA from flooding the system with fakes. the MAFIAA will ensure all their spam comes highly recommended and with top ratings whatever system you try

the success of the private sites and the bigger success of the user moderated public sites is that the torrents are verified by the communities in a manner which shuts out the MAFIAA spam. that is the single strongest argument why bittorrent will continue to be centralised, because we need file verification

it doesnt matter if the torrent site of the future hosts no torrents and no magnets and no links, it is absolutely cool if the torrent site of the future is no more than a community blog which serves as a platform for the verification of torrents

the problem with TPB’s vision of the future is that they never tried to educate their members to self-moderate and verify their content. the h33t community went through that pain barrier and the result is a greater understanding of the necessity for community standards and engagement with the issues that challenge us. the content on h33t is 100% moderated by the general public for the general public. there are many other sites who have followed the same model

to those who would follow us into the future i say INVEST in your communities and ENABLE them to moderate themselves. in the world of sharing nothing will replace the educated, enabled, bittorrent community

http://www.h33t.com knows nothing will replace the human being
me

#16 flamsmark “Each instance of a torrent client generates its own key-pair.”

Doesn’t that run contrary to the goal of anonymity? Don’t forget that if you cryptographically validate a fragment to a peer that happens to be a hostile node (read: a MAFIAA spy, or simply a confiscated computer), you’ve effectively nullified non-repudiation as a line of defense.

With an IP address, you could still claim innocence, because MAFIAA can invent them en masse (their address space is tiny, compared to public key address space!), but signing a fragment with your own private key and letting *them* verify this with your public key is kind of pointless, isn’t it?
me

#93 h33t: “nothing you can introduce into a decentralized p2p system is gonna stop the MAFIAA from flooding the system with fakes. the MAFIAA will ensure all their spam comes highly recommended and with top ratings whatever system you try”

Well, the system can always be gamed, but in addition to community-based moderation, there are also other techniques to mitigate anonymous spam.

You may want to read about the concept of trust in anonymous p2p networks, starting a section “Accounting and Trust” on GNUnet’s collection of papers:

http://www.gnunet.org/papers.php3?xlang=English
Anonymous

Reputations systems implementations and discussions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_metric

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/People/egs/credence/
Anonymous

Anonymous networks protocols available:

-Scalable Leader Selection in
Peer-to-Peer Overlay Networks

-P2PRIV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P2PRIV

-A K-anonymous communication protocol
http://discovery.csc.ncsu.edu/pubs/ASIACCS07b.pdf

-DC-NET
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dining_cryptographers_protocol/Rewrite

-Onion routing(also known as crowds and Chaum mixes although a bit different from those methods describe but it is a direct descendant of those protocols)
TOR
sabret00the

People are putting too much thought into this. It’s never been illegal to reference anything.

So let’s say there’s a site called torrent-reference.com and on that site, you search for a torrent named ‘sh-4594545047′ which is ’107kb in size’ and it tells you that it has 1000 plus votes and displays comments, then it’s up to you to get the actual torrent from a different source.

There’s nothing illegal about that.
Anon

Go check out I2P if you don´t already know about it..

http://www.i2p2.de
killplay

why does torrent freak swear by this frostwire client so bad? Like a sponsor.
Gnutella is extinct in the mind of any self respecting torrent user
Pingback: FrostWire “Iced Torrent” 4.18.6 Released « FrostWire
forgot to tell ya

.torrent file sharing? Oh the “news”… BitComet has been using this since v0.86 2007.04.03
http://wiki.bitcomet.com/Torrent_Share_and_Torrent_Archive

Downloading from both BitTorrent/DHT and eD2k/Kademlia? Available since v0.90 2007.06.19
http://wiki.bitcomet.com/Using_eMule_plugin

magnet links have been added recently as well. Now gimme easy Tor support (e.g. Azureus) and no other BT clients will match BitComet.

Sauce: http://www.bitcomet.com/doc/changelog.htm

What’s really interesting is recent efforts of adding BitTorrent support to Direct Connect clients (DC++ mods).
ArkOuroboros

This is one of those times where I can say ed2k ftw.
me

#97 sabret00the: “There’s nothing illegal about that.”

Beware of making such broad statements on the worldwide internet. In fact, in some countries, referencing alone IS already illegal, e.g. in Germany.
ww

@55: 56 is right, it’s good they added the disclaimer, it tells the users they should take that into account when considering information provided in the article, and its source.
Had the users discovered this fact only by themselves, TF would look like sponsors’ puppy, licking their feet, and doing (publishing) whatever they say with their opinions being easily buyable. However, this way, it explicitly tells us that we SHOULD take the fact into account.

Nevertheless, it is really interesting information, I like the decentralized index/torrent database approach, which, if implemented correctly, will surely be a pain in the ass of MAFIAA-like organizations and they will remain quiet… ’cause they won’t know, who should they be shutting down :P

At least for some time.
Sweetie Magic-Bun

TF wrote:

Although we believe that FrostWire’s approach is interesting, it will also introduce one major problem. It is relatively easy to make a P2P-powered torrent index, but keeping it clean and malware-free will prove to be very difficult.

Maybe I don’t quite fully understand how p2p works, but when I used the Vuze client (now use Transmission), I seem to recall it having a field for peer comments. Maybe Transmission has that too, but in any case, if each peer commented on the torrent’s validity, and it was invalid, it would likely disappear over a short time; and/or comment files could be part of the torrent files and edited accordingly.
Pingback: P2P Foundation » Blog Archive » The state of filesharing 2010: moving towards radical decentralization?
John Stroman

I think torrents and file sharing are here to stay. I’ve built a business around torrents. How can we ever go back to the days of video rentals? I don’t see it happening.

John Stroman,
http://www.cinematorrents.com

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