Downloading 3322 Copyrighted Movies is Okay in Spain
Written by Ernesto on May 29, 2009In Spain, a judge has dismissed a case against a man who downloaded and shared 3322 copyrighted movies on the Internet. Despite efforts from local anti-piracy outfits, the legal system in Spain continues to stand firmly behind those who share music and movies without financial gain.
Today, the Criminal Court of Pamplona ruled that a man didn’t break any laws by downloading thousands of movies and an undetermined number of songs. The defendant was acquitted of copyright infringement charges because there was no evidence that he profited from downloading the movies and music, or sharing them with others.
The judge acknowledged that the man indeed downloaded the files “without consent of the copyright holders” in 2003 and 2004, but ruled that he only did so for for “private use or sharing with other Internet users.” There was no financial gain, so no crime has been committed and the defendant walked free.
This is not the first time a Spanish court has ruled in favor of a file-sharer. In 2006, a man was similarly acquitted, and more recently it was ruled that websites linking to p2p downloads (torrents for example) operate within the law. Spanish law dictates that there has to be “an intent to profit” for someone to be held liable for copyright infringement.
Graffiti on a defunct Blockbuster store in Spain
Not everyone agrees with Spain’s liberal view on copyright infringement. According to the US, the Spanish government has done little “to change the widespread misperception in Spain that peer-to-peer file-sharing is legal.” However, as the courts show time and time again, this is no misperception – it is how the law spells it out.
Since sharing files on BitTorrent and other file-sharing networks is legal, it is no surprise that Spain tops the list of countries with the most recorded copyright infringements. Close to 25 million were counted by the piracy tracking company BayTSP in 2008, mostly on BitTorrent.
Previously: ACS:Law Anti-Piracy Lawyers Are Copyright Infringers
Next: Soulseek P2P Application Vulnerable to Remote Takeover
141 Responses
We need some o’ this over here in the States!
Way to go, Spain.
I would love to see some records of dvd sales in Spain, to see if heavy downloading effects sales.
I found it quite interesting that in Spain. It’s okay that you pirate, as long as you don’t profit from its hello there. In other countries such as the US. It’s like you’re using torrentyou must be guilty even though. Then there are plenty of legitimate reasons to use bit torrent of that anyway. Good article
Squee! Spain <3.
I thought mention how hypocritical. Most web hosts are a seedy mention it bit torrent. But anyway
Respect for the Spanish authorities for not being so obedient to US’s policies.
With what right they come in Europe and try bending the rules?
We are european, not american citizens!
Dura lex sed lex! Hope Spain won’t give in to the pressure from the Obama administration (and from France too).
I wonder if they should be a International download Day to see if we can show the empty party people. How much support there is for file sharing
maybe the Pirate Bay could organise it with loads of media coverage that will go to the independent owners on tpb
a spelling mistake in my last post, artist on tpb stupid voice recognition
Nice from Spain, other countries should follow the example!
Nice from Spain, other countries should follow the example!!
Loving Spain right now. Need to bring some of those comprehending judges to the states.
Guess where I’m moving?
no where?
This is how the law should look like in the digital age…A clear separation between the public domain and commercial interests.
@3-Because Spain along with Canada has the fucking brains to realize they have better things to do then spend hundreds of thousands of police manpower and clogging up the judicial system to go after 14 yr old kids that are downloading songs or adults that are downloading movies.
It costs THEIR country in resources and manpower 100′s of thousands of dollars to bring these people to court and put them up on trial.
And do you think the RIAA or MAA is going to pay for the BILLS? No. So why would any country that has REAL crime to solve spend millions to go after people that they arent even concerned about.
Hey TF,
A little typo, “he only did so for for”
two “for”s…
you can delete this comment when you fix the typo.
Cheers!
R
Hmm, maybe one should go live in Spain?
GG Spanish lawsystem!!
Awesome!! Im going to spain 4 a week soon, Gonna bring my laptop!!
The main reason for copyright holders to behave in this way that they think they owe the cultural production they manage and they have the right to hold it or to sell it or no. The problem is that they are deeply misunderstanding the case because they owe only the commercial use of the film or the album. When exposed, the cultural product became public, like any other information, citing it is encouraged, selling it without the consent of the holder is forbidden, but watching it is totally free. The film is the expression of the director and the all the staff, the song is the expression of the singer, the book is the expression of the author, and the article is the expression of the journalist. The copyright can be hold for the paper of the newspaper not for the ideas and information written there.
respect
Thousands of movies? Even at 3,000 movies at 700 megabytes, he’d need a 2.1 terabyte HD assuming that he ONLY downloaded 700mb divx movies and not DVD images or HD .MKV files.
No doubt he downloaded DivX/ISO/MKV video files, audio files, software, etc. The bandwidth and storage is incomprehensible, but not impossible over time.
That size is entirely possible, using an array, but clearly he was a download addict. Either that or all the guy ever downloaded was .torrent files.
That’s human: Viva el Spania!
And oh, there are 3,000 movies worth downloading? I’m SHOCKED!
And this is how it should be everywhere.
I’m the first to censure making money from something you do not own, but I see no problem whatsoever using it privately or sharing it freely.
It’s all about free access to culture.
In Spain the internet sux.
Screw the US govt. Mind your own fucking business.
AS it should be.
That Blockbuster picture is great.
@ dairRIAA
2TB? no big deal. if u set ur up/down speed to 10KB/s and let ur run, you’ll have 400GB in a year
It’s the norm to have 1TB hanging around on various types of storage.
So that brings to mind the fact that it’s too late to stop, so called “copyright infringment” because everything digital has been shared millions and millions of times over the years.
If only other countries would do the same…
My friends and I share each others content and we all have at least 5TB each … if not more … we got at least that many movies
I think for some people it can become an addiction. ;)
3322 movies ,, i definitly got to get to know that fellow ;P
@2 I agree, seeing DVD sale statistics for Spain would be interesting to see. Maybe it’ll be an upcoming article on TorrentFreak? Ernesto? :)
if every country follow Spain , bit torrent will die . this is because bt need tracker and running a tracker need huge bandwidth and money .
in spain the internet doesn’t suck :p
http://musicindustryreport.org/?p=3789
According to Promusicae 8.1% increase in digital sales is the figure LoL
Against 12.4% decline in physical sales which is no surprise after all who buys a discman today?
Sell albuns in flash memory for Gods sake!
I bet if Obama legalized sharing files, he would get reelected instead of shot!!!
@#37 ccc
I don’t understand what you mean…
If every country was like Spain bit torrent would just thrive like crazy…
He should of been jailed or at the very least fined for every single movie he has stolen. Shame on you Spain.
So should mickey and all criminals from the RIAA/MPAA mafiaa that gouged the people for decades, stole society from their heritage LoL
@39, did you read the entire article? spain’s entertainment industry is facing a MASSIVE decline in revenue that the paltry 8% uptick in legal downloads is doing almost nothing to diminish. this despite the fact that they are one of the largest (by illegal downloads) consumers of said entertainment, the majority of it originating from america.
“Respect for the Spanish authorities for not being so obedient to US’s policies.
With what right they come in Europe and try bending the rules?
We are european, not american citizens!”
———————-
and yet you are just as ignorant of your country’s policies as most americans are said to be. spain belongs to the EU under which certain standards relating to the implementation of copyright law must be met. right now spain stands in opposition to this and many other (mostly environmental) guidelines described under EU policy.
in addition, spain is a signatory country to the berne convention for the protection of literary and artistic works and are (obviously) also in complete opposition to the rules and requirements pertaining to this membership.
already the gears are turning in decided what punitive maneuvers will be implemented against spain for their many failings with regard to these two INTERNATIONAL groups. they will soon be forced to comply or at the very least feign the appearance of doing so.
spain exported almost 10 billion dollars worth of products to the united states last year. hopefully some much deserved economic sanctions will be brought against them in the near future.
again, download is stealing? Oh sorry torrentfreak you have got every single right to sue me. I just downloaded your article! I’ll do the same for every person that reads this comment! . You after all have two coppies! one on your hard drive and the oter one in ram . Anyway… this is how things shold’ve been. I swear if bit torrent was monetized earlier then it would be selling and would b the best thing on earth for sales, man. But tell you what: there are old people that spread terrible propaganda, innaccurate statistics (often imaginary, and please note some of them have been found GUILTY of plagiarism) and are afraid to venture and unwilling to work. More incompetence = more money, don’t forget that. More money = more power to brive whoeveer it takes to be able to avoid jail time or even accountability. Anyway, countries are all different and the US needs to get that through their massively thick skull (if any).
“The judge acknowledged that the man indeed downloaded the files “without consent of the copyright holders” in 2003 and 2004, but ruled that he only did so for for “private use or sharing with other Internet users.” There was no financial gain, so no crime has been committed and the defendant walked free.”
———————–
Cool… common sense and balls exist in Spain after all. :-)
Spain has balls and doesn’t care about stupid and fascist USA copyright laws which violate basic freedoms and civil liberties as the free exchange of information and culture.
To the fascist americans: your CORRUPT and STUPID country governed by corporative whores is not the centre of the world anymore… there exist other countries with DIFFERENT cultures and laws which don’t care about your corrupt laws that only favors to a CORRUPT and RICH MINORITY; which don’t care at all about the people and the problems of the world.
Yep I did read it all and what I saw was that digital sales had growth and CD sales are going in the direction of the Dodo’s.
Which means if you give people what they want(Digital) they will buy it to bad that the industry waited this long to see the light.
If this is not true so sales of digital content should never see growth instead there is a stream of revenue being born. Which takes me to the point, people are not stealing anything they are just doing what theirs fathers did and that is nothing to be ashamed off, but the incompetence of music managers can hardly be inputed on the people did you see the revenues for the movie industry? Should they not see the same pattern of decline with DVDs with CDs? And yet sales are strong, hell even DVDs of music clips saw growth, shows saw growth only legacy technologies saw decline.
The message then is: Don’t put CDs out put flash memory cards with little furry animals and there you go and sell some physical media for the iPod generation.
Oh look, the RIAA/MPAA are spinning their lies again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8073068.stm
And for the love of God stop your whining people don’t care about the laws, they don’t care about artists most people just want a background noise and if they hear something they like and they can buy it they will do it, most adolescents don’t have money they wouldn’t buy anything anyways and older people like myself want spend thousands of dollars to replace all that they bought in a lifetime to a new format.
The industry already have a diversified stream of revenue but the internet will not be a pay per view, if most people are like me the industry is screwed because I just stop listening I ain’t going to pay anything to hear nothing on the internet, but hey people buy virtual clothe go and make a virtual store on second life and sell virtual CDs there who knows LoL
@41 meh
for the bt user YES but not for the tracker , BT need tracker and running a tracker that will cost huge bandwidth .
have you ever think why is TPB not move to spain ? the answer is very simple, TPB is making money (from ads, etc..) to cover the operation cost .
check out
WHATARETORRENTS.COM for help
It is an interesting interpretation of law: no financial gain, no crime. Hey, I will wreck this judge’s car – no financial gain, no crime. Just flying to Spain to have some fun.
52@
“For “private use or sharing with other Internet users.” There was no financial gain, so no crime has been committed”
Read the article and don’t take sentences out of the content.
Also I personaly think that spain is a good example for rest of the world in how much artists actually gain from bittorrent.
all a matter of priorities. thank goodness Spain at least has file sharing off of it’s list of serious crimes. spending tax payers money and police man hours on more important things like bringing murderers to justice is much more sensible. and they are not letting the USA dictate how things should be run either, at least for the moment, anyway. pity the rest of the EU dont do the same. telling Obama to ‘shove it’ sounds good to me!!
Holllly cow!! I can’t believe my ears.
Hehe all those whining about Spanish subtitles on the intarwebz are hereby forgiven
[quote]According to the US[/quote]
When statements like “according to the US” or “according the US government” some other country should do this and and that I go in LOL mode
I also go a bit in :( mode for the EU not to respond to this: a fellow Member state is being harrassed by the US, the EU should make a statement like: we deal with our own affairs and our Member states handle their affairs according to their law if no EU law stands in the way, now pipe the fuck down US government.
It could be phrased a little more diplomatic but you know what I mean ^_^
Kudos to Spain for not kissing ass.
I love you Spain!!! The problem with us the United States is we have too many greedy people that don’t care about us the customer. we aren’t breaking the law by sharing music and video because like me I don’t profit. It does help me go out and buy either the album or DVD. There’s nothing wrong with P2P nut the record companies and movie people want more and more money!! Here I come Spain Peace USA!
I love you Spain!!! The problem with us the United States is we have too many greedy people that don’t care about us the customer. we aren’t breaking the law by sharing music and video because like me I don’t profit. It does help me go out and buy either the album or DVD. There’s nothing wrong with P2P but the record companies and movie people want more and more money!! Here I come Spain Peace USA!
3322 is a lot. I don’t think I have near that many even if you count all the porn vids ~_~
Also, good for Spain ^^
people should be free to share something they bought. no mater if they do it lending a dvd to their neighbour or by p2p to a community they are a part of.
Retarded Americans and their stupidity.
Americans are greedy bastards and that’s why everyone hates them
Oh Ya… Im an American and Im greedy.
Oh you must be my neighbor and know me pretty well. Oh no? so you don’t know American Public.
Americans are just like everyone else. We don’t like our government, we work hard… well some of us. We have families.
I don’t hate anyone in Iraq or other similar countries because I don’t know them.
When will people stop being so god damn stupid.. never… yeah UK.. ooh no my country is better. yeah Germany. Yeah India. Our football team is better STFU
@60
Knob Gobbler
lol @ 61
@60
see, I’ve had too many Hofbrau.
But you are an idiot
exits a retarded president enters a jackass that tries to pressure other country to chance their laws just because they don’t agree with them
americans are stupid bastards.
if you don’t agree with those stupid assholes that go in 4 president, don’t vote 4 them
dahhhhhhhhh
I live in Spain, and yes, my torrents run 24/7!
ah so you know who I voted for.
You’re just a sheep repeating what you see others post, try having an original thought of your own.
U.S. sux.. look I spelled it cool too.
The point here is good job Spain
the point is
good job spain and don’t give in on US (bad bad bad job) pressure
America-bashers: Speaking as a US citizen, I say:
Flame the corporations and the people that are actually, directly responsible for what you don’t like.
Don’t flame the public at large just because you feel like being stereotypical and holier-than-thou. Not all Americans are greedy, capitalist pigs; I stand as an example of this.
Good, there’s still one country with reasoned minded judges.
Anon
how the hell do you think is responsible 4 putting Obama on the position to pressure other countries in changing their laws to fit their needs???
maybe the ones that made him president!!!!
Viva Espana!!!
At least they are not pussies.
who gives a sh!t? movies from p2p in general are of sh!tty quality anyway. None of those noobs seem to know what aspect ratio, interlacing or ivtc means.
*insert giant eye-roll*.
So yeah, go ahead and waste your time downloading crap oversized rips uploaded by morons, while everybody else is enjoying pristine video/audio quality from their home theater equipment.
No wonder some countries will always be behind, what with people settling for cheap crap.
@bittorrentiscrap,
jackass, i can download with the same quality that you buy a blueray.
…i just don’t pay the insane amounts you pay… don’t have to go out to buy it, and have it first…
who is the idiot?
Now that is the way the law should be!
I wonder how fast the copyright law in Spain will be changed, because everyone is saying: “Jeah, in Spain is downloading not illigal, bla bla”.
I’m afraid that the same thing in Sweden will be happen in Spain: MAFIAA pushes / manupulates the gov to change the law.
Doesn’t the last paragraph go against the often repeated mantra of “people won’t stop downloading even if it’s illegal”?
The thing is in Spain exist a digital cannon “private tax” of at least 277 million € a year that is paid as a charge over things as blank CD, DVD hard disk, memory stick, mobile phone … in “compensation” of future ,not for profit, personal copies, so the law say that if you has already paid is legal.
The collection agencies are trying to get the money for the right but don’t allow us to exercise it. And the tribunal are saying, “no you can do that”
The fight in spain is how, for whom, by whom and how much this compensation should be.
“Since sharing files on BitTorrent and other file-sharing networks is legal, it is no surprise that Spain tops the list of countries with the most recorded copyright infringements.”
How can file-sharing be both legal AND a copyright infringement… If anything Spain only tops the US list of countries who broke THEIR copyright laws… outside of the US these lists are complete bullsh1t!
@77/bittorrentiscrap
Whatever bud. Get your @ss to the store and buy some dvd’s and cd’s, and while your there you can pay for my share to sucker.
ps:Tell Blockbuster i said hi. LOL.
:)
Show me ANYWHERE a law that says “filesharing is illegal”, fuck the MAFIAA
i think we should all just go online and hack chinas defence system! cuz there hackin usas high tec pcs by pinging the heck outof em by teaming up and recieving there signal some fuckin how! crazy asians!
How can we be pirates if there is no profit???
Cause we are sharers!
@ bittorrentiscrap
I watch my blu ray rips on my home theatre in digital, guess you’ve never plugged a computer into a theatre or streamed befrore, keep buying your discs sweetheart i’ll keep downloading mine.
Good for you Spain!
” Thousands of movies? Even at 3,000 movies at 700 megabytes, he’d need a 2.1 terabyte HD assuming that he ONLY downloaded 700mb divx movies and not DVD images or HD .MKV files.
No doubt he downloaded DivX/ISO/MKV video files, audio files, software, etc. The bandwidth and storage is incomprehensible, but not impossible over time.
That size is entirely possible, using an array, but clearly he was a download addict. Either that or all the guy ever downloaded was .torrent files.
”
My Utorrent stats are around 3Tb upload and download.
Over a few years, 4 or 5 films a week and some music it’s entirely plausible.
Add on to that the occasional “box set” of a TV series (@10-15Gb)and it’s very easy.
Long live Spain. ESPANOL!!!! Im moving there :)
People know that blu ray quality equal DVD quality if you don’t have a TV that is HDMI compliant right?
That bluray equipament can connect to the internet and theoretically execute programs on the host machine.
And that it can receive orders from the far corners of the world telling that you can’t view nothing because they found out that someone broke the code.
And that bluray equipament phones home to tell how good a boy you have been.
Sony a few years back patented a means to make a disc unplayable in other players making a disc with a number that could be overwrite once the player acquired the code and should that player break or be stolen people would have to buy another copy LoL
That is great.
Me think a 8 Terabyte Drobo is a better option :)
3322 movies…… damn…… I’d like to copy his Hard Drives :D
Sooner or Later we are gonna have people selling TB hard drives loaded with Movies and Music.
@44
‘and yet you are just as ignorant of your country’s policies as most americans are said to be. spain belongs to the EU under which certain standards relating to the implementation of copyright law must be met. right now spain stands in opposition to this and many other (mostly environmental) guidelines described under EU policy.
in addition, spain is a signatory country to the berne convention for the protection of literary and artistic works and are (obviously) also in complete opposition to the rules and requirements pertaining to this membership.’
And you’re apparently ignorant of the fact that each country only need to implement the minimum requirement of a directive in accordance with their own laws, as the Bern Convention also states, which should come as no surprise since these directives are modelled on the Bern Convention.
‘already the gears are turning in decided what punitive maneuvers will be implemented against spain for their many failings with regard to these two INTERNATIONAL groups. they will soon be forced to comply or at the very least feign the appearance of doing so.
spain exported almost 10 billion dollars worth of products to the united states last year. hopefully some much deserved economic sanctions will be brought against them in the near future.’
And obviously ignorant of the fact that each action, such as economic sanctions, against a EU country is an action against the whole European union, and EU tends to respond in some measure.
props to that judge.
#44
There’s no EU directive which mandates criminal procedures against P2P users. Plain and simple.
Spain only considers copyright infringement a crime when there’s economic profit and that’s perfectly ok with EU directives and international treaties.
It’s not okay with the industry and USA, though. That’s why we’re on the Special 301 Report’s watchlist and are under pressure to change laws and “harmonize” them with USA IP legislation (not EU’s).
That’s progress! AND TO THE OTHERS: THEY WILL SINK IN THEIR OWN SHITSTORM!
@93 (JIT)
You are an idiot.
yey
95–>There’s no EU directive which mandates criminal procedures against P2P users. Plain and simple.
Spain only considers copyright infringement a crime when there’s economic profit and that’s perfectly ok with EU directives and international treaties.
It’s not okay with the industry and USA, though. That’s why we’re on the Special 301 Report’s watchlist and are under pressure to change laws and “harmonize” them with USA IP legislation (not EU’s).
—————-
Exactly… but I will add something more.
USA copyright law is illegal by nature. This violates basic human rights, as the free exchange of information and culture with others, by any medium; digital or physical.
Another thing: I see with very bad eyes that citizens in Spain have to pay a canon for a physical storage medium for “compensating” the artists. This is a hypocrisy and a illegality… The SGAE don’t care at all about the artists that they “supposedly” represent. The only thing that really cares for them (the SGAE) is easy money.
The music industry in Spain (as in any another part of the world, specially USA) represented by the SGAE (equivalent of RIAA in Spain)
doesn’t care about the music artists at all. They pay pennies to the musicians from their hard work, around 10% of the profits go to the artist and the rest (90%) go the PARASITES executives of the music industry, including SGAE.
All this campaign from the music industries cartels (including SGAE)
about “protecting the rights of the artists” is a farce, a theft to the citizens, and, from any point of view something completely ILLEGAL.
The canon in Spain must be abolished, and the PARASITES from the SGAE eliminated.
i’m moving to spain
where i can download new movies?
http://www.bih.ir/
what apitty!!
we live in the digital heaven of 3rd world. you can download and install everything. you can enjoy seeing the most recent movies and albums.
First Barca wins the Champions Cup and now this!
Viva La Spania!
USA is the country with the biggest level of political corruption ever known. Its political power is capable of doing harm to the people who elected it for greater profit.
Immortal Technique say it better than me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzSzl2oDHI&feature=related
23: Topping a few TB’s is not uncommon these days, I run about 4TB’s in on my main server. But then again, this was supposedly 2003-2004, so perhaps he archived it all on DVD’s?
100 DVD’s @ 4360 MB a pop is almost 0.5TB, so if he downloaded and burned DVD’s he could have easily had a couple hundred of them,
Non profit copying in Spain is legal, period.
This is exactly what the Swedish Pirate Party aims to achieve.
My two cents: as someone who’s spent the better part of the last decade writing/recording music (hopefully for living, eventually), I just find the fact that everyone expects art for free just a very cavalier attitude. Whether it be rock, rap, or whatever, someone spent anywhere between $100,000 to $100,000,000 to make this art. Obviously, to be enjoyed by the masses. But then for folks to go, “No, I deserve this for free because it’s in the public domain?” That, quite frankly , is crap, IMO.
In the case of spain, I actually do agree with the legal ruling, since my limited understanding of the issue is that the LAW has yet to be changed (of course no one PROFITS from downloading music/movies). It’s not the fault of the downloader that the books haven’t been updated to reflect modern copyright issues. However, there is no law that currently discusses lost revenue, which is the big thing all artists worry about.
So…I’d be interested in hearing a pro-sharing point-of-view that discusses why I, as an artist, should not at least make my money back, much less me making a living on MY art. My understanding is that file-sharers believe I should make a quality product, put it out, and basically give it away for free. And no, I don’t buy the argument that if my art is really all that good, people will pay. As a struggling artist, I don’t get the luxury of people not paying for my stuff…maybe Metallica can afford it, or Michael Bay, but not the guys shooting for 100,000 in record sales.
@107 Welcome to the information age.
How will you do? Use your creativity. Tour and do live shows, sell stuff at these shows; put donation links in your webpage, get another job, etc.
The State should not be protecting failed business models when technology makes them obsolete.
Just think of it as Free Software. You can ask money for it, but you can’t prevent others from giving copies away for free. Of course, all the middlemen (major labels, etc) are now in excess, you don’t need their studios, their pressing plants, or their radios.
LOL. I love it how they sue people for doing legal things.
Retards these days…
let me tell u something people on here even if u download it just for your on use it still illegal period
its no skipping around because u no why its a lot of people it there that dont no how to p2p and bitorrent and the people that dont no how they got to pay and we pirates just free load of p2p why they spend they hole hard earn money to spend on movies and other p2p stuff im just saying we the ones that is doing bad here oh well it is what it is
Viva Espana
Great news! That’s how copyright laws should be everywhere! Filesharers do more good for our culture than any big music label or hollywood studio.
THAT is what i’ve been saying all along concerning this whole “copyright” fiasco. it’s NOT against the law to download movies, games, software, and music as long as you don’t make a profit from selling it to other people! how about if you look over the copyright laws, stupid ass RIAA, and stop attacking people just because they’ve downloaded songs, movies, software, and games?
@110, Black Pirate:
Um, if you’re going to post, please do so legibly. I can’t tell what on Earth you’re trying to say.
Tbh, if the RIAA told me that the sky was blue, I’d go outside and double check. I don’t believe a single word they have to say. About anything. They are nothing, nothing at all, more than a protection racket. Most times, they don’t operate within the law either, so their claims to occupy the moral highground are the purest and most unadulterated bullshit. The ‘losses’ they cite don’t even exist – they are purely and entirely and utterly imaginery. If I just don’t buy a cd (don’t download it either, never hear it or anything) than the RIAA have still ‘lost’ the money they ‘would have got’ had I bought their crappy CD. The only reason they haven’t tried suing for that yet is even they realise that no-one would buy it, whereas stupid people do buy thier whiney lies about how recording artists are all dirt poor now thanks to people like me. Yeah? Is that so? Try telling me that Kasabian, for instance, are dirt poor so I can laugh in your face…
Oh, and guess how much of the money that the RIAA have ‘recouped’ through fines they have passed on to these ‘dirt poor’ musicians. Go on, have a guess. It’s £0.00. A sum total of $0.00. They have passed on something in the region of 0.0000000000000000000000000% to the bands they claim to care so much about. This one fact alone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the RIAA are liars, hypocrites and con-artists. They don’t care about the bands any more than I do. Less, probably, since I do buy *some* albums, and go to shows, and buy shirts and stuff.
Fuck the RIAA. They are nothing more than contemptable pieces of shit.
I was watching TV earlier, and saw a PC World advert where the guy tells us that he downloads lots of movies from the internet (at first I thought it was going to be a MAFIA advert), and PC world set it up so he could watch them on his big screen etc… Are PC World anti-copyright? – it seems to me that they must be since there aren’t that many places to get legal HD movies from online…
we have the same system in Canada, download for private use not public
@97
“You are an idiot.”
Yep.
My IQ tests only went so far as to show I wasn’t da only rocket fueled bomb in da world. But hey, you just have to accept reality, but of course if one is u one prolly has second thoughts.
jajajaja
@104 ‘USA is the country’
Nay, rather the Bush regime, who blah blah blah fucked up the world.
And it’s very nice o US today to keep exporting their fears to the rest of the world, instead of exporting such stupid stuff as liberty, which actually was the whole point to begin with. but hey, who’s keeping tabs, right?
@107, ‘I just find the fact that everyone expects art for free just a very cavalier attitude.’
Oh, I’m sorry Sir, but apparantly your idiot facts are wrong.
Most peeps’re smart enough to only expect free when it is given to them for free, the rest of the time they actually expect to be trapped, but, however, there doesn’t seem to be all that many trappers … if you don’t count the ones who step in their own stupid hole, that is.
“And you’re apparently ignorant of the fact that each country only need to implement the minimum requirement of a directive in accordance with their own laws…”
—————–
the “minimum” is not correct phrasing and even if it was — spain hasn’t. they have done virtually nothing to protect IP in ANY FORM.
this is why almost 95% of spain’s cinemas were recently on strike. no doubt they’ll be striking again soon the way things keep deteriorating.
“There’s no EU directive which mandates criminal procedures against P2P users. Plain and simple.”
————–
that is obviously correct and i never said otherwise. the mandate is much more broad than that. however, this doesn’t make p2p piracy exempt from anything.
“Spain only considers copyright infringement a crime when there’s economic profit and that’s perfectly ok with EU directives and international treaties.”
—————
LOL, this could not be more wrong. go study some more. while the legalese is intentionally broad as to what exact measures should be taken to protect IP, spain fails to protect it in the very broadest sense by failing the berne 3 step test.
they’re not doing much better at curbing physical piracy either despite the rare bust now and then. anyone whose been there in the last few years can attest that pirated product is for sale everywhere. not only by talentless, parasitic individuals operating out of backpacks and vehicles but stores and markets operated by owners without shame or morals.
and when you consider this: “The three-step test may prove to be extremely important if any nations attempt to reduce the scope of copyright law, because unless the WTO decides that their modifications comply with the test, such states are LIKELY TO FACE TRADE SANCTIONS.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_three-step_test
it is pretty obvious that spain will soon be forced into a difficult corner where only compliance with stricter copyright protections is a feasible outcome.
“USA copyright law is illegal by nature. This violates basic human rights, as the free exchange of information and culture with others, by any medium; digital or physical.”
——————–
this is the wishful thinking of a communist idiot. please show me where any such right-to-distribute exists. in the meantime i will show you TWO HUMAN RIGHTS that actually DO EXIST as outlined by the united nations declaration of human rights:
ARTICLE 17:Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
ARTICLE 27: Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Define property please! Because anyone can see that intellectual property is not realistically or reasonably enforceable in any world you live on and trying to do so violates basic human rights and cause more problems that it solves. So the law is wrong and intellectual property should be divorced from the public domain and stay in the commercial domain even if it hurts the rights of the creators because society is more important then a minority that don’t even contribute that much for the economy society does.
So no, copyright should have limits and it is good to see that some governments have good sense.
About the berne thing.
Limitations and exceptions
- special cases:
The internet is a special case, it’s not true? prove that is not then please!
- do not conflict with a normal exploitation of the work.
Prove to us that it does conflict with normal exploitation of any work please because if that is true TV and radio stations should be treated as such.
- do not unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the rights holder.
Don’t see how is prejudicing anything since digital markets are growing the big lie of the industry is that is effecting their whole sales when the only thing going down is the old media called CD like any other legacy technology like vinyl and cassette tapes that are seeing a decrease in sales, on the other hand in a global recession digital sales and deals are seeing growth of 50% or more in some cases even in Spain, concerts are still a revenue stream so no there is no bad impact on the owners rights, they still can sell merchandise and expect solid sales where is the prejudice then?
Prove to us that internet sharing is making people consume less or stop buying digital products in a digital age.
@ 05:14 by Anonymous,
I’ll play your little game.
‘“And you’re apparently ignorant of the fact that each country only need to implement the minimum requirement of a directive in accordance with their own laws…”
—————–
the “minimum” is not correct phrasing and even if it was — spain hasn’t. they have done virtually nothing to protect IP in ANY FORM.’
Like I wrote, no EU country has to do more then what their constitution says … oh, I’m sorry that would be the EU convention, you know the whole thing that is the constitution of every EU country. Go figure, even if it wasn’t for the Bern Convention.
“this is why almost 95% of spain’s cinemas were recently on strike. no doubt they’ll be striking again soon the way things keep deteriorating.”
Yep, must be why peeps strike, right? Couldn’t have’d something to do with something more down to earth, like getting paid in a time when the entertainment industry actually close down a couple of hundred cinemas and mulitplex’s
‘“There’s no EU directive which mandates criminal procedures against P2P users. Plain and simple.”
————–
that is obviously correct and i never said otherwise. the mandate is much more broad than that. however, this doesn’t make p2p piracy exempt from anything.’
P2P isn’t illegal, it’s just a protocol on the Internet for communication, no more no less.
Is speaking on the phone illegal?
‘“Spain only considers copyright infringement a crime when there’s economic profit and that’s perfectly ok with EU directives and international treaties.”
—————
LOL, this could not be more wrong. go study some more. while the legalese is intentionally broad as to what exact measures should be taken to protect IP, spain fails to protect it in the very broadest sense by failing the berne 3 step test.’
Since I didn’t write it, I can’t claim any right to it, but yes it is right, it isn’t illegal in Spain to download files, no matter who the rights belong to as long as you don’t do it for a commercial purpose. Just as in Canada or the Netherlands. Oh, and a few eastern, now included in the EU, countries.
Sry, but deal with it.
And everything else is just pure crap, ’cause you couldn’t defend yer own damn arguments, to boot.
Hey, figure this one, the US economy’s lame compared to the economy of the EU. ;-)
Oh! lets not forget that the industry is making deals with social networks like MySpace to let users listen to music for free which the industry thinks as a sample platform that the thing is if the industry gets a kick back it’s ok and there is no foul play but if it does not receive a kick back then it is illegal and people are stealing hmmm…I see now.
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/social-networks/
So there you have spotify, pandora, myspace and a bunch of others that people don’t pay nothing but are ok and don’t cause problems but filesharing does someone could explain that to me?
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ipod-bush-president,news-950.html
Article about the then president G.W. Bush ripping Cds LoL
How much the entertainment industry contribute to society in money terms?
How much those the entertainment industry paid in taxes and how much the people paid?
How much is the economic impact of the peoples rights being taken away and how much it will cost to take away the right of copyright owners?
What are the impacts on a country from copyrights?
Where are the good and that bad state in a clear way?
anal
QUESTION:
What does the general public want?
ANSWER:
AXXO BE THY NAME ;)
this is a really good read!!
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/scene-stealer-the-axxo-files-1214699.html
it’s heart wrenching
think about copyright this way people
in Canada 50 year copyright anything made RIGHT NOW how is to benefit you in almost a lifetime? IT WONT
in USA its life of author +95 years
it was created originally to give an author a limited time compensation for being “INNOVATIVE”
that’s over now all you hear form actors and musicians is MONEY MONEY MONEY , that is no longer art.
Scalping tickets, SONY ROOTKITS.
NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR.
Imagine GM selling you a car and then sending people to your house and sitting in your car overnight!
YOUR NOT HAPPY BOUT THAT ARE YOU.
OR making locks for your home then sending people to your house and going into your home without your permission or any legal right.
THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE CRIMINALS, to say that some kid getting a movie , game,tv ep , application or anything is doing something illegal. BETTER SMARTEN UP AND LESSON COPYRIGHT 1st.
UNTIL ITS SANE, GAME ON BOYS N GIRLS.downlaod away…..
@ 122 May 31, 2009 at 05:14 by Anonymous
ROTFLMFAO. According to the two rights that you listed from the ‘united nations declaration of human rights [sic]‘ filesharing is a right and corporate ownership of copyrights is a violation of those human rights.
BTW, whining that you don’t like Spanish law won’t change it, at least not to non-Spaniards. If your goal was to come here and convice everyone that you are wrong, you have succeeded.
i notice that most american do not download torrent due to fear of being sued it seem they have become the most owned the most feared sheeple in the world…
if you want to seed a torrent, seed a spanish torrent because any other torrent rarely have any peer to seed
even if you language isn’t spanish
the american are wimps even asian have more rights, privacy then these brainwashed sheeps… america blows, the most obese, now china supply most of the product american uses.
There are so many unnecessary law and regulation to restrict freedom, to protect those who are rich in America. May as well call it land of no opportunity for the poor. only in America do we call it land of the free when it really isn’t free at all to any intelligent person with a brain. equality in america is another lie. it doesn’t exist anywhere but americans love to whitewash everything including health care, food, finance, privacy, constitutional rights.
“Define property please!”
————-
i don’t have to, the LAW defines it very clearly: “PROPERTY – Not only money and other tangible things of value, but also includes any intangible right considered as a source or element of income or wealth.”
property doesn’t = physical or tangible. property = VALUE. just like working. When you go to work each day, most likely you’re not doing anything tangible. it’s value. If your job is to talk on the phone all day, you don’t do anything tangible. So if your boss came up to you at the end of the day and said “i’m not going to pay you for your hard work today” you would, of course, thank him for being so forward thinking…right? you would also, of course, continue to come into work everyday, hoping your boss might one day decide to pay you…right? of course you would!
“Oh! lets not forget that the industry is making deals with social networks like MySpace to let users listen to music for free”
———————-
probably shouldn’t have brought that up. internet advertising is not the godsend everyone thought it was. the myspace music thing is failing hard just like all the other free services that try to monetize themselves. not even BITTORRENT INC has figured out a way to do it! and yet that is what you all ask of the entertainment companies: FIND A WAY…even when the underlining technology can’t find a way and fails massively in attempting to do so.
and now bram cohen, the creator of the protocol subsists on the occasional bit of charity from an infinitesimally small minority of bittorrent’s 160 million + worldwide user base, the vast majority of whom will never donate a dime to him despite the wealth of illegal content they’ve been able to enjoy because of his creativity and work.
and this is the exact same population the artists and content creators should now put their faith in?
no f***ing thanks!
“Prove to us that internet sharing is making people consume less or stop buying digital products in a digital age.”
———-
spain has the highest piracy rate pro capite and the one of the lowest legal download rates europe. you can cite “post hoc ergo propter hoc” till you’re blue in the face and it won’t make the link any less obvious. spain’s legitimate internet downloads are half that of most other member states in the EU despite sometimes two or three times as much illegal consumption. the evidence is plain.
“ROTFLMFAO. According to the two rights that you listed from the ‘united nations declaration of human rights [sic]‘ filesharing is a right and corporate ownership of copyrights is a violation of those human rights.”
——————–
no body of law has ever interpreted them as such and i don’t know how they could. explain your reasoning or piss off.
“BTW, whining that you don’t like Spanish law won’t change it, at least not to non-Spaniards. ”
——————–
spain is free to make whatever rules they like regarding copyright law. it now their laws that is in question, merely their undeserved membership in a number of international treaties that their economy relies on. if they want to keep their membership they will have to make many, many changes in their law. simple.
your contention is misguided. the crux of your (ignorant) anger revolves not around american imperialism but internationl law which has been around since medieval times. “Sry, but deal with it” as one of the other idiots so eloquently put…
@134: Calm down.
Great news, but don’t get too excited.
$GAE and other copyright groups are pressing hard –even doing some censurable deeds– to ban P2P, prosecute file-sharers and squeeze money from special copyright taxes in digital equipment. Gosh! Even the current Spanish Minister of Culture is totally pro-copyright!
#134
Spain is not in breach of any international law in reference to copyright, only with the USA interpretation of such. Remember this is criminal law we are talking about. Even in USA the suits against file-sharers are civil, not criminal. A different thing is that the laws in reference to privacy and secret of communications are stronger making almost impossible to obtain the identity of the file-sharers with only a civil suit.
Plus the digital cannon in compensation for private copy make it a non resulted issue.
In reference with the link sites,trackers etc.. you must understand that in spanish law are the actions that determine the crime as such they make money by telling people where other people are sharing. At this moment there is no international or european treaty that says that telling someone where to find other people willing to interchange copyrightable material must be a criminal offence.
And having prepay at least 270 million € for the right to make private copies I think the spanish people has a too low private copy.
@122 I would love to see the WTO dare with trade sanctions. Hell, it is time for more countries to leave that American controlled POS. If a State has to choose to protect its citizens or defend foreign media cartel interests, to hell with the Berne convention. The USA didn’t became a superpower without copying anything they could get their hands into.
BTW: Right to distribute? Ever heard of Public Domain? Do you know why Copyright is called that? Do you know about its original 14 years period? It is you who need to study, both law and history.
I love it how the US just dictates to Spain, like it owns it or something. And Spain just turns around and gives the USA the middle finger. Heh.
I would totally go to Spain if it were not for the fact that Spanish chicks have moustaches :/
@140, It is your mom who has moustache. You couldn’t find Spain in a map.
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