EU Commissioner: Digital Natives See Piracy As ‘Sexy’
Written by enigmax on July 10, 2009EU Commissioner for Telecoms and Media Viviane Reding has joined the debate over Internet piracy. Yesterday she stated that both sides of the conflict are right but their inability to see things from the other’s perspective is holding back progress. In the meantime, she says, piracy is seen by many as increasingly “sexy”.
The debate over online file-sharing, copyright infringement, piracy – call it what you will – is not going away. Indeed, the debate is more vigorous and heated than ever before.
On the one hand many copyright holders are virtually unmovable, steadfast in their belief that file-sharers are little more than thieves, undermining their livelihoods and stealing bread from their children’s mouths. The firm belief that they are dealing with criminals explains the draconian policies of the music and movie industry, they say.
On the other hand are millions upon millions of Internet users, desperate for their media fix in the most convenient forms, with as few restrictions as possible. Every download is not a lost sale, they say, indeed free downloads may even boost sales and treating file-sharers like criminals achieves nothing, with many declaring they will never stop downloading, never stop sharing.
Many champion disconnections for alleged pirates, while others say that access to the Internet and the information it provides is a fundamental right.
In the end, something will have to give.
In her speech to the Ludwig Erhard Lecture yesterday in Brussels, EU Commissioner for Telecoms and Media Viviane Reding joined the debate, focusing on the need for reconciliation between the almost warring factions.
Explaining that her number one priority is to make access to digital media easier and more attractive, Reding said this would drive the take-up of high speed Internet in Europe. However, the fact that both sides are reluctant to see the world from the perspective of the other, progress is being held back.
“While many right holders insist that every unauthorised download from the Internet is a violation of intellectual property rights and therefore illegal or even criminal, others stress that access to the Internet is a crucial fundamental right,” Reding explained.
“Let me be clear on this: Both sides are right. The drama is that after long and often fruitless battles, both camps have now dug themselves in their positions, without any signs of opening from either side.”
Of course, these entrenched positions do little to further the possibility of some kind of willing reconciliation, with many in the file-sharing community more determined than ever to preserve their activities and nurture their beloved hobby, often in a particularly proud way, a point not lost on Reding.
“In the meantime, Internet piracy appears to become more and more ’sexy’, in particular for the digital natives already, the young generation of intense Internet users between 16 and 24,” she told the lecture.
Noting that this age group should become the “foundation of our digital economy, of new innovation and new growth opportunities,” Reding outlined the difficulties in bringing the sides together. Quoting Eurostat figures, she claimed that 60% of 16-24 year-olds have downloaded audiovisual content from the Internet in recent months without paying. “And 28% state that they would not be willing to pay,” she added.
These figures, according to Reding, are indicative of the limitations of the present system;
“It is necessary to penalize those who are breaking the law. But are there really enough attractive and consumer-friendly legal offers on the market?” she mused, hitting on one of the biggest complaints from media consumers.
Highlighting the perceived gap between ’suits’ and citizens, Reding questioned if the current legal system for dealing with copyright meets the expectations of the younger, more tech-savvy Internet generation;
“Have we considered all alternative options to repression? Have we really looked at the issue through the eyes of a 16 year old? Or only from the perspective of law professors who grew up in the Gutenberg Age? In my view, growing Internet piracy is a vote of no-confidence in existing business models and legal solutions. It should be a wake-up call for policy-makers.”
Ask many on the file-sharing side of the debate and they will agree with Reding when she says that something must be done and done quickly too. If the media companies don’t make access to online media easier and more attractive “we could lose a whole generation as supporters of artistic creation and legal use of digital services. Economically, socially, and culturally, this would be a tragedy,” she said.
“Digital Europe can only be built with content creators on board,” Reding told the lecture, “and with the generation of digital natives as interested users and innovative consumers.”
In the end, people will have to talk. When all is said and done, legal action and disconnections will not solve this mess. Scaring people into becoming a customer is not a sustainable business model. In the end – just like flowing water – people will find the easiest route to the destination they require. It is up to the entertainment companies to ensure that the route Internet users take to media is via their door, and not to that of the nearest torrent site.
When that will be is anyone’s guess. My guess is no time soon.
Previously: Mininova Denied Rectification From Dutch Government
Next: Pirate Bay Block Violates Democratic Principles, ISP Says
96 Responses
mmmmmmmm yes
I think the range is much larger than 16-24. Napster started getting big in 99, and I think that’s about when people realized that they really could have music the way they wanted it, where they wanted age , for free. I think that most of those people still feel that way, even though there are a lot of them that are in their mid to late 30’s.
“Sexy”, “Both sides are right”… How stupid one can be? They still don’t get it (and the PR advisor of Ms Reding should be fired). I certainly won’t start seeing things from the other side’s perspective anytime soon. They just need to die before they do more harm. Period.
“If the media companies don’t make access to online media easier and more attractive “we could lose a whole generation as supporters of artistic creation and legal use of digital services. Economically, socially, and culturally, this would be a tragedy,” she said.”
Thats the point! When ever I look for an album I really want for example, first thing would be to look for a legit DRM free source with reasonable Price, if it is electronic or Independent music I often end up on bleep.com or cdbaby.com …but if I however don’t find that in like 3 minutes I end up on what.cd or other torrent sites.
I wish I could just down everything from one place and then if I like it send a donation directly to the artist.
Steal as much as you like but support the artists that make content you LOVE!
I have to say, this is probably the most agreeable high-up position answer, or opinion on the situation of file-sharing.
Agreeing with #4, the group is much larger than Reding stated. However, even though the gap is much larger, the majority IS in that age group. But, regardless of the majority of age group, the laws are not representative of the majority, in my opinion.
If Reding could propose something that is a compromise between both the file-sharing community, as well as the copyright industry, I would be more than happy to support it. The problem is finding something that the copyright industry will agree to without getting 50 fold the amount they put out for the content that they ‘own.’
A poilitician with some sense? Wonders will never cease!
Lets hope that this is not all just hot air to try and look like they are doing something. It is time for copyright reform, and for the copyright industry to be forced into being friendly towards their consumers!
I can’t help but feel that the voting of the Pirate Party into the EU parliament has something to do with this – perhaps not directly, but maybe the politicians see it as a threat!
she’s right on some parts i think i’m 15 years old. making legal things more attractive is a good solution FORCING US TO PAY IS NO SOLUTION AT ALL!!! make legal things easier AND IMPORTANT NOT TO EXPANSIVE!!
The more she talks, the more I like Viviane Reding. She seems to be one of the few voices of reason in politics today.
A sensible approach, finally. I really see her point, both filesharers and copyrightholders should give in.
lmao…. there can be only one!
It’s ironic that she thinks both sides are right…
We are not the ones trying to force an unsustainable business model on ‘consumers’.
We are not the ones who have consistently lobbied for (and achieved) extensions in our monopoly privileges from law-makers.
Perhaps if they reverted copyright to its’ original terms, and removed all the extensions that have been added (which, in effect, add up to breach of contract on the part of the ‘content’ industry) then perhaps we’d be more inclined to look at their offerings (if they manage to create any that aren’t crippled by DRM).
Well some politician with not one-sided point of view. We need more of such people in Law, Politics and technology who look on both sides of argument and work to find a law/culture/technology compromise of this problem…
Funny that generation >24 has more political, law, economical power but their number will shrink so probably it’s they who need to do something fast… Or solutions will come from 24< segment. Where is demand there will be suppliers. It is simple as that. But will industry be one who will be able to monetize that demand? If they depend so much on old physical distribution means then answer is clear.
Her fundamental mistake is that the content-creator generation of the future is the 16-24’s of today. If the older generation of content generators don’t want to be a part of it, so bad for them. We won’t have a “tragedy”. We’ll have the new media that media holders have prevented us from having until they grow to old to be important.
Oh, and if she tried to be “leveled”, please try again.
“Yesterday she stated that both sides of the conflict are right but their inability to see things from the other’s perspective is holding back progress.”
Really, we can’t see their side? We have unfortunately lived it for about 100 years now as a society. How about they try seeing our sides?
This woman is failing and trying to be diplomatic. Maybe she should learn from Kroes.
If you look back at all Viviane Redding’s pronouncements on teh interntets you will see that she is a complete idiot, clueless and hasn’t got the slightest idea of what she is talking about.
In the final analysis, politicians will never be able to stop file sharing. None of these people have any clue about the history of Warez; if they did, they would know that it is literally impossible to stop it, and that today, it is more impossible than it was yesterday.
What a totally pointless waste of time and flesh these people are!
QUOTE:
“On the other hand are millions upon millions of Internet users” …etc…etc ,, we grow every day and are dug in real deep ,, the battle continues!! arrr!!!!
Ladies, I am single. ;)
We aren’t the ones trying to destroy their freedom.
We can see from the other side… and this is all we see: $$$$
They want nothing more than money. We want to have a society free of greedy corporate shitheads and where simple entertainment is free.
“… Economically, socially, and culturally, this would be a tragedy.”
Bullshit.
Piracy just have to hold on for another 20 years and the climate in politics will change dramatically LoL
All those little pirates today will be working and probably parents and will remember these days and probably will not vote in favor off those old ways of thinking. At least it is what I hope for.
The only real tragedy is privacy going out the window.
For the rest, the industry is going down, crashing and burning LoL
Screaming and kicking the music industry will have to face the new age :)
As I have said before, we don’t need new content. There is enough content already to keep everyone going for life. Let the “content industry” die. No one will care when it finally does.
“the young generation of intense Internet users between 16 and 24,” she told the lecture Noting that this age group should become the “foundation of our digital economy, of new innovation and new growth opportunities”
i feel left out…
i’m only 27 and my excessive downloading already doesn’t count anymore :P
And i would pay… just not to some company that actually didn’t do anything for the product except for distribute CD’s… or for the movie industry, they must realize that movies just arent top entertainment anymore… the prices they ask for them are insane which in turn is the fault of the mountains of money being payed for actors… It’s simply not worth what they are paying…
““Have we considered all alternative options to repression? Have we really looked at the issue through the eyes of a 16 year old? Or only from the perspective of law professors who grew up in the Gutenberg Age?”
You have been looking at how u can earn as much money as possible in as few time as possible THAT is what the younger ages hate so much… Come back to earth and see reality. As opposed to “the other side” you r welcome here :P.
Another kinda useless statement which seems mainly meant to keep both sides calm until…. yeah… until what…
She hit the nail on the head :)
heheh, difference is between us and them..
we win.. will always win.. we are unstoppable.. we are technologically advanced.
We will always be smarter than them, always a step ahead.
They answer to us, we make the rules.
The internet belongs to the users, we will never let corporate greed and government take over our free world..
F*ck with us… see what happens.
The fact just is that NOTHING will EVER make free file-sharing go away. The only way I see it, is that file-sharing should be legalized.
It doesn’t matter how “good” (good as in music industry standards) alternatives there are, people won’t stop file-sharing.
One option of course would be to heavily criminalize p2p, but that would probably just bankrupt a lot of people and eventually start hurting the economy.
Piracy…sexy? I should be bringing in the ladies then.
If a person breaks a rule, punish him.
If two people break the rule, punish them too.
If three people break the rule, change the rule.
@16 – Axinar
The reason that politicians won’t do the right thing is that they are at the beck and call of the corporate powers that be. This incestuous love affair between governments and mult-national corporations has to stop.
“It is up to the entertainment companies to ensure that the route Internet users take to media is via their door, and not to that of the nearest torrent site.”
True. In fact after I signed up for Spotify (excellent service btw) the last time I recall downloading music from the web (torrent sites) was about 6 months ago. Since then I have all the music I want, legally and instantaneously available. I even subscribed the premium service a few times. Spotify is a clear example of that.
Last days I wondered if Spotify doesn’t make music downloading rather obsolete. Looking to that from now, music download looked soo 2008. I wonder if this could be the way?
One thing for sure, we need more Spotifys!!! On the movie industry, on the books industry, on the games industry, etc…
Look at what Steam is doing, looking to pirates as potential customers. The “suits” really need to move on, or they will forced to beg on the streets someday.
Cheers.
PS: Excellent site, congrats! :)
“Or only from the perspective of law professors who grew up in the Gutenberg Age?”
The thing is, there are a lot of professors who grew up in the “Gutenberg Age” who believe there needs to be copyright reform.
nice pic lol
“Both sides are right” Nice words but in fact she is holding the content industry position. Appealing online shops and prosecution if you don’t buy is her recipe. Nothing new.
The only way to solve the problem is to break that stupid concept of intellectual property. Copyright is just a commercial monopoly intended to incentive production of artistic works.
This monopoly is no longer feasible nowadays. So copyright must change. Let’s keep the original idea of copyright (”to promote the progress of science and useful arts”, US Constitution) and let’s start thinking about ways to achieve this goal. Intellectual property (”downloaders are stealing”) is a much later concept and a clearly outdated one.
Copyright always had exceptions and in some cases these exceptions proved to be far profitable to the copyright holders. Music radio broadcasting is one of this exceptions, tv home recordings is other. Both music and movie industries got great profits because of these exceptions, that were CONTRARY to their will.
It is time to think about p2p as a kind of modern VCR, an invention that copyright holders fought but ultimately gave them most of their revenue, precisely because they lost the fight.
Why not a compulsory license for Internet broadcasters and online shops? Such kind of license has worked in the past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license
Some people have proposed a compulsory license for Internet users, but i think it is a bad idea. IMHO royalty must be paid by those who are profiting from broadcasting and selling.
Also price would be determined by market if the license sets a percentage of revenue instead of a fixed amount per movie/song (this is the main fail of nowadays US compulsory licenses for Internet music broadcasting).
Hey, Viviane, here is my proposal. Are you reading this?
The “content-owners” have been ripping off both the “content-creators” as well as the “content-consumers” for ages now.
As this so-called businessmodel is failing more and more the “content-owners” would like to see everyone’s privacy destroyed and turn the internet into a totalitarian police state.
In reality, the “content-owners” have been obsolete for decades now and not only do they know it, “content-creators” as well as “content-consumers” are starting to wake up to this too.
So the question is, how long can these middle-men who are eating up the profit and produce nothing (except for ridiculous lawsuits) keep their choke-hold on the content-business?
We really need to get rid of those vultures, and the clueless/corrupt politicians/lawmakers that keep supporting them.
Viviane Reding is right about a few things, but she’s also wrong in one very major way.
We understand the perspective of the copyright holders perfectly.
They’re parasites who no longer serve a purpose, if they ever did. They want to sit there like a bridge troll between artists and consumers, getting paid and growing fat for doing nothing, and they’re franticaly scrambling to hold back progress so they can cling to their lucrative extortion racket.
We *can* see things through their eyes, which makes us regard them with even greater disgust.
There will be no reconciliation, for they deserve none. This whole saga will only end when we’ve finished tapdancing on their grave.
From a politician, this is probably one of the best descriptions and grasps of the problem out there.
The real meat of this matter is that a whole generation is growing up with the belief that copyright infringement is ok.
Hey,
i’m 40 and i’m a pirate since the 80’s.
Back then it was floppy disks and tapes, but still.
“Have we considered all alternative options to repression?”
Seems like a smart women.
The suits do not and will not consider alternatives. Period.
I know many 40+ very cool parents who download movies and games for themselves and their kids!
So there!
Why not start putting your internet bill in a minors name (e.g a person under 17 years old).. At least here in the states a minor cannot be sued !
Last i checked all you need to get cable/internet here is a social security #..
If your kids are pirates . Cancel your internet . Put the bill in THEIR name and BAM. No possibility of a lawsuit ..
Problem solved.. Next issue please!
She makes some good points and at least shows some bare understanding of the issue from the side of file-sharers. I find that actually quite encouraging. It’s nice to see someone in power speak out on the issue who doesn’t come across as completely in the pocket of copyright holders.
You can pick away at a lot of things she says and she’s still clearly trying to mollify the movie and music industry with a lot of her words, but it’s still a positive thing that she’s willing to recognize the failure of their existing business models. It’s more acknowledgement than we were getting ten years ago, even two years ago.
There will be no compromise, there will be conflict and there will be blood. There will be those who die having seen/experienced very little of the avaiable quality digital content, and there will be those who die having seen/experienced a good part of the avaiable quality digital content.
I’d rather die having experienced a lot of the quality digital content.
Long live the digital world! The true land of the free!
good article. though i have a feeling that the media corporations will use some form of DRM to control everyone no matter what they do.
funny walt disney cared more about entertaining than money and he had it pretty good.
“Laughter is America’s most important export.”
“You reach a point where you don’t work for money.”
“Cartoon animation offers a medium of storytelling and visual entertainment which can bring pleasure.”
“I have never been interested in personal gain or profit. This business and this studio have been my entire life.”
“You don’t build it for yourself. You know what the people want and you build it for them.”
the industry needs to follow his example.copyright needs to be reverted to its original form. the media companies are going to have to earn their keep properly and not by putting out garbage movies or drmed content either.
“The real meat of this matter is that a whole generation is growing up with the belief that copyright infringement is ok.”
Maybe it’s because the copyright terms are not only NOT ok, but completely insane, and the only right thing to do it’s ignore copyright all together. Copyright it’s simply something we no longer respect because it makes no sense, it certainly doesn’t encourage creativity anymore.
As for me, I continue buying media, but not anything that comes from any corporation related to the RIAA, MPAA and all of their clones across the world. For me there will be no peace anymore, it doesn’t matter what they do, they won’t get a single cent from me and I hope they will eventually become more and more irrelevant until they all die. And I will continue convincing people to join the boicot.
As people previously mention, they attacked my privacy and my freedom through the purchasing of laws, and they are now trying to do it through the imposition of laws using a commercial treaty (ACTA), how would anyone expect us to reconcile with them?
I think many people just view piracy as a norm. The internet has a had a dramatic impact on people’s notions of morality. It provided people with a convenient opportunity to freeload and retain their anonymity at the same time. It was the perfect opportunity, so people took advantage of it and, as it has become overwhelmingly clear, it has risen to unforeseen proportions. These days, downloading a movie is considered nomral and going to the store and paying for it seems to be regarded as going to the extra mile.
I’m unsure how this lady thinks that piracy is “sexy”. I’ve never felt sexy downloading a file, nor have I ever found it attractive. I find it easy, quick and convenient and it all started from when I used to record music off of the radio and copy LP’s and 8 track tapes from my friends. I download for free even more today than I ever have in my entire life because I resent the motion picture/music industry for extorting from families and controlling our politicians and legal system for their own profit.
It’s far from sexy. It’s a protest of defiance against the multi-billion dollar corporations that lie about protecting and rewarding their artists. Artists get paid as little as possible for their efforts and are completely controlled by the corporations.
I’m 100% against groups that profit from piracy and 100% agree that everything should be done to stop them. I’m 100% all for rewarding the artists and not the corporate executives and lawyers. All “pirates” need to be given a way to compensate their favourite artists directly.
I really don’t see a big problem with these large greedy corporations ever dying. People are always going to be willing to pay for something that is worth paying for, but some are not willing to pay for something that is substandard or not worth it.
Some audiovisual products will continue to break sales records, some artists will continue to rake in millions of dollars for their efforts, but in the end it’s the executives and their lawyers that will always make the most money of all, and will all continue to do so thanks to copyrights and royalties.
This planet is full of billions of people and it’s the little or unknown artists that also have the talent to entertain and enrich our cultures that need to learn how to harness the power of the internet to do so, and still be compensated for their work. They need an outlet too and should have the right to do so without handing the majority of their profits to executives and lawyers.
The only solution is; the corporations need to stop extorting and threatening everyone and quit creating free publicity for piracy, and then perhaps it will become lesser known and go underground so they can increase their profits.
The corporations need to leave us alone. I know that when they do, I will start buying CD’s and movies again. Something tells me though that they won’t change, and neither will my downloading habits.
@48 Jul 10, 2009 at 19:57 by .neo.styles|nvDX
I take it you never tire from being delusional. I feel a bit sorry for you that you can never see or think any differently than how the RIAA/MPAA has programmed you.
It’s sad and pathetic.
At least we know for a fact in like 40 years, they’ll all be dead.
@49 : LOL programmed by the RIAA? I think i’ve only ever been to their site once in my entire life. again lol.
Whats sad is that YOU insist on making everything look like a conspiracy. Someone is telling us we should pay for our stuff? OH noes! Teh RIAA haz programedd us all!!11
Someone is telling us we should pay for our stuff? OH noERS! Teh govurment r trying 2 coNtrl us!!!1
@52 Jul 10, 2009 at 20:18 by .neo.styles|nvDX
Once again, simply pathetic.
Try again dear.
38–>”The real meat of this matter is that a whole generation is growing up with the belief that copyright infringement is ok.”
—————–
Imbecile.
I’m 42 years old; and I as also many people of my generation have been doing active filesharing since long time ago, even a lot of time before of the invention of the internet.
The mediums were differents, of course. The cassette tapes were the most popular storage medium for sharing a lot of music
between friends, colleagues and family, and this never was considered illegal…
I don’t understand why now sharing some songs with friends is “supposed” piracy… all because the medium for sharing songs
is now different and more efficient? I don’t get it.
I about agree with everything Viviane says here and for that I certainly believe she’s on the right track to understanding the multitude of issues. It’s a complicated subject that involves many forces and of which few seem able to comprehend with a relative objectivity.
I’d say if there are no obvious answers revealing themselves, give it time. The Internet is still very new as it’s the arrival of this which is causing many entrenched industries headaches as they move to reconfigure for the new enviroment. Few enjoy change whilst they’re content, least of which massive multi-national media corporations. Oh, and not everyone is likely to prove a winner in the end, either, so no entity should ever assume survival is guaranteed. The foundations have shifted; rebuild, or risk collapse.
she makes an excellent point about “The Gutenberg Age”
i found a nice little story that explains what she is talking about and gives insight into her appreciation of the issues of filesharing and the greater democratisation of information in the digital world
the wiki article i link at the bottom of the page is also a good read
http://fr33sp33k.h33t.com/index.php?topic=13330.0
the range would be more apt to say 8-45
those are the ages where the computer came into being and when kids can actually use one with some proficiency
——
that’s a very very large vote block
and the pirate party of Canada tells me after kicking me for being PRO p2p that they do not endorse or condone p2p or non commercial use.
—–
THIS means that a pirate party that is in Canada that for 6 weeks hasn’t registered the party, has been taking donations and for what?
It is beginning to look like a scam and a sham as artists pile in and start the fair copyright crap to keep everything unbalanced.
Proof? 1st video at the wiki is by a conservative that brought us the bill 61 copyright that almost DCMA’d Canada.
I am a pirate and I am sure sexy! :-)
Perhaps some of us pirate ladies should take a little trip to Brussels in our skimpiest dresses and see if we can’t get some of these old bangers to change their views.
I remember from history that the women of old Rome stopped a silly war in this way, by paying a visit to the Roman senate…
It would make great media, who knows.
I am a pirate and I am sure s*xy! :-)
Perhaps some of us pirate ladies should take a little trip to Brussels in our skimpiest dresses and see if we can’t get some of these old bangers to change their views.
I remember from history that the women of old Rome stopped a silly war in this way, by paying a visit to the Roman senate…
It would make great media, who knows.
all we need in Canada is a party full a panzies allowing artists to tell them what to do , and getting rid of the levy so they can sue people
Glad to know that there are a few sane people in politics.
First and foremost RIAA/MPAA are from Gutenberg Era, at 57 its time for RIAA to die.
GREAT idea sxy works fer me ya might give em all a heart attack and then we be rid of em :P
go to the pirate party of canada website and tll them that , they seem ot NOT be listening to us.
http://www.piratepartyofcanada.com/forum/
feel free to ask why they do not support non commercial p2p use!
Look around and see the artists creeping in and you will see what i mean.
goto the chat and tell em i sent ya.
some nfo for people
Canada has a blank media levy that allows for the download and placement onto said media of copyrighted materials.
They claim that downloading is illegal, then why the frak are they saying they are a pirate party.
bunch a chickens
“6 Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 by Rabbit80
A poilitician with some sense? Wonders will never cease!
Lets hope that this is not all just hot air to try and look like they are doing something. It is time for copyright reform, and for the copyright industry to be forced into being friendly towards their consumers!
I can’t help but feel that the voting of the Pirate Party into the EU parliament has something to do with this – perhaps not directly, but maybe the politicians see it as a threat!
”
in the case of Viviane (Reding) You do have a well informed and willing executive fighting for the privacy rights of the EU people.
it was her department after prompting from the “NoDPI” users that have now forced the UK commons to revisit the EU directives on wiretapping, so you are well advised to read her official statements in that light.
and help inform her and her department heads of the good ways to compromise in this fair copyright for the EU people too.
put simply Viviane Reding is a good guy in this respect, please keep that in mind in all your writeings, and help her to help yourselves in the long term….
they do see it as a threat to as in canada anyhow that 155 grand tax payer cheque
the existing green party with much more broad support also COMPLETELY adopted the pirate party mantra and has a registered party and POLICY that is exactly what we all want to see,
reduced terms to 12 years, end of patents especially on drugs, non commercial p2p use enshrined in law, and other issues all we want in a REAL party, like hte liberal party in Norway adopting it we have the green party of canada doing so.
So as she said no need of a pirate party whose policies don’t even come close to what the greens advocate.
Support and vote for parties and politicians that WILL keep there word and deliver reforms
Hmm… you can talk about the “two sides” and how there is a “war” going on and shit like that…
But the fact is, with more than 4 billion songs a month changing hands on bit-torrent alone, the war has been lost a LONG time ago.
You can go sue anybody you want, and it will just be like pissing into the wind… you’ll get wet and that is all that you will accomplish!
yup it is only a matter of time before there laws get in our face so much we the never vote kind get up and vote them to extinction.
Bollocks!
Not only those numbers are way off, but it’s also obvious the destinct stench of political PR speech.
There’s promiscuity all around, but not tfor the common citizen.
They can go suck on a doorknock, as far as I’m conserned.
I ment:
There’s promiscuity all around, only not for the common citizen.
.::54::.
Nope. I think #38 had a very valid point. I had never thought about how piracy is affecting children. They really are growing up thinking that piracy is the way to get things like music, movies, etc.
I don’t think they are the ones affected though. A large portion the older generation (you are living proof of this) has forgotten what paying for things means. Simple as that. Piracy has overwritten people’s notions of buying things.
So what? This is no way proves #38s point wrong. He mentioned the younger generation and they are the ones who have have grown up with the internet and who have been influenced by it’s culture and set of values.
No one suggested that filesharing hasn’t existed before, but the internet has elevated it to an immense (in many case, commercial) scale.
You are exactly right. You DON’T understand. At all. When hundreds of thousands (in many case, millions) of people just hand out copyrighted material to each other over bittorrent, they are depriving the creators/entertainment industry of their rightful profits and any potential to expand and grow.
It’s also the most selfish thing imaginable. They aren’t just sharing a “few songs.” It’s more like thousands of albums. You clearly do not understand the bittorrent protocol and how it has effected the entertainment industry.
.::53::.
You know what truly is pathetic? How you dodge people’s posts and then act all condescending. If your going to try to pretend you are superior to someone, atleast respond to their post and dont shy away like a little girl.
its also werth remembering Yesterday Ms. Reding was nominated for a third five-year long term as a member of the European Commission (EC).
“http://www.telecomtv.com/comspace_newsDetail.aspx?n=45221&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e 2a2a10
Over the past five years Viviane Reding has proven herself to be a doughty and determined defender of consumer rights, often the the chagrin, annoyance and downright anger of the telecoms industry in general and the mobile sector in particular.
Here in the UK at the moment we are seeing self-congratulatory advertising from the likes of Vodafone trumpeting that British holidaymakers roaming in Europe this summer will pay no more for their calls in France, Italy or elsewhere in the 27 states than they would at home.
What they fail to mention is that the reductions in roaming charges and termination rates were forced upon them by Ms. Reding and that they fought against them tooth and nail.
”
“EU law requires that the Commissioner posts be re-distributed by then and industry chiefs in countries such as Germany, Spain and the UK are known to want rid of her because of the damage that her championing of consumer rights has done to their revenues, profits and balance sheets.”
”
“As that rare animal, a third-term Commissioner, Ms. Reding will be a very senior and influential member of the team headed by the new President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso.
He’ll have to handle her next appointment carefully. She is very popular with consumers and has indicated that she really does want to stay where she is for the next five years.
”
“The scuttlebutt is that Ms. Reding could well be appointed to the post of competition commissioner or put in charge of Europe’s internal market. So, however you look at it seems likely that she will remain in a position of real power for the next five years and that the telecoms industry will be subject to just as much scrutiny, if not even more, than it is at present.
The Terminatrix will be back.
“
Sorry, sweetums, but pirates buy more than the average consumer.
You seem to be at odds with reality. Have you considered medication?
You can’t even prove that one single, solitary filesharer is depriving anybody of anything. This makes your sweeping generalization rather entertaining.
By the way, only the artists have a right to profit. The copyright holders have no right whatsoever to profit when they do nothing but sit there and freeload.
But the copyright holders somehow escape your wrath. More entertainment.
HAHAHAHAHA
SHARING WITH OTHERS is the most selfish thing imaginable?
You are truly disconnected from reality.
Why should he even bother? It’s obvious to anyone that you’re a MAFIAA employee.
Oh, and if you’re going to pretend to be superior to someone, don’t confuse “your” with “you’re”. I usually don’t care about these things, but the irony’s just too funny to pass up.
Also, I’m taking your name. Because I know it deeply annoys you :D
file “sharers” who please freedom are ignorant self blowing a@@holes!! my god, how clueless can you be!! steal everything and wreck it all. you should drink thine own urine and repent for being such f**king idiots!!!
one more time, you are all simple urchin ganagsta wanabees with no intellect!!! get a life! get a clue!! develop a spine you darkened room humunculus!!! swine!!
another thing. you are unimaginiative and repugnant. jail time for you all!!! a%%holes!! gosh you people are whiners and spoon fed good things with no concept of self sacrifice or payment for creations. you should not have been born!!
^
a bit harsh, but I agree. Pirates do not know what self sacrifice is. Just indulgence of their own happiness and greed as well as laziness.
this will continue until the last record company falls to its knees and music is once again free
NOW REMEMBER FELLOW PIRATES…
if you happen to do a job that DOESN’T involve making a PHYSICAL PRODUCT then you AREN’T doing anything more tangible than a musician…and your boss should have complete FREEDOM not to pay you for the ethereal, meaningless portions of your workday when, lets face it, you’re not really working at all, just selling things or answering phones or punching buttons on a register…
and you should be happy to do these intangible things for FREE otherwise (obviously) you’re a greedy corporate-minded pig.
AND MAYBE if your boss REALLY thinks you did a good job one day(i mean…a REALLY good job) then hopefully you were forward-thinking enough to have set up a paypal account for those occasional two or thee dollar donations!
WOW! just think of all the things you can buy from the vending machine now! it boggles the mind!
THIS IS TRULY THE FUTURE!!!!
You know what? IT’S TOO DAMN LATE! The piracy generation has *moved on.* You can’t get us to become consumers again. Even rich people who CAN afford media don’t now because piracy gives you a much *better* product than the retail version: portable, copyable to an infinite degree, high quality, fast, and devoid of any forced advertising (ie macrovision nonsense on dvds). There is already a generation of people pirating only high definition content, and here they are still worrying about someone making copies of low-res dvd quality movies. LOLZ The joke’s on you…bitches.
ROFL
It’s funny to watch you throw a tantrum, neostyles. Don’t ever change.
“It is up to the entertainment companies to ensure that the route Internet users take to media is via their door, and not to that of the nearest torrent site.”
Bingo.
Said it before, say it again:
This is not about copyright theft, this is about the failure of the copyright industry to adapt their business model to the technological, economic, and social realities of the the 21st century. The longer they hold out and use heavy handed legalistic means to block these necessary changes, the worse it will be for them, and society generally.
example of the NEW REALITY
you pirate a copy of adobe photo shop locally
you learn and get good at using it, but when you goto use it commercially you MUST buy it and prove you have a receipt of sale to be able to work using it
now that’s not really that hard in real life to do, and so whom is harmed by non commercial uses again?
———-
and again artists talking 1st about money not about art, if you over price your crap products then you deserve to get pirates. That is what happens in a free market when you do not listen to your customers.
YA art dont call your self an artist or the work art if all you yap on about is MONEY
@.neo.styles|nvDX,
You really are an idiot, who lack of arguments. Here the people don’t care about your stupid words, that a waste of time.
You are not more that a troll payed by the RIAA, that’s all.
I am referring to 71 and 77, btw.
#79 Your reasoning is just a fallacy. When someone finds a job the boss promises he will give him a certain amount of money for a certain amount of work. Obviously, boss must comply with his promise.
This also happens with many authors and artist. They are just hired to do their work, and piracy don’t affect their income because a salary was previously agreed.
I don’t think it is going to happen but what does happen if piracy destroys the business? Nothing new. New technologies have frecuently destroyed previous business (and have created new ones). Some people become unemployed. A nasty thing but they do get paid for their work until they were fired, as any other people.
In other cases authors and artist fist create the work and later try to get money from it. Sometimes they get success sometimes not. They assume the risk and sometimes they lose. Nobody forced them and this happened too long time before Internet started to exist.
Artist get 4.5 cents per song sold at iTunes. You say the lack of these 4.5 cents is a disaster for artist but what does happen with the other 94.5 cents? A music downloader is not stealing, he is just enjoying music. He is not getting someone’s else money. Record labels are the true robbers, they steal almost everything of artist income.
I like it how the Content Nazis rely on the implicit assumption that they have a “right” to make money from their product.
They’re brokers, not creators, and now the consumers owe them something?
People are under no mandate to be paying consumers of any product, and certainly not when the supplier absolutely refuses to update the means of distribution.
If you don’t provide the product people demand, then they’ll go to the supplier that does. It’s economics 101.
Sorry, Content Nazis. Adapt or die.
wow… FINALLY someone intelligent….
but i will say it again, until the entire content of the recorded human experience is available on-line and on demand no one’s going to stop pirating. period.
Shiver me timbers, thars be what ah’m ‘avin’ arrrr!
http://www.entertane.com – the easiest site for torrents (movies, music, software, games, xxx) – faster, simpler – and you can search all your favorite torrent sites. No registration needed.
@11: “We are not the ones trying to force an unsustainable business model on ‘consumers’.”
I feel the need for the value chain in music business to getting shortened…dropping the record labels out of the game. This is why they are fighting with all means, from bribing Police officers in Sweden who contest against TBP to imposing new legislation in their favour in many countries. This is their battle of D E A T H and they will “hopefully” die sooner than later.
Instead of a centralized distribution (what they want), distro has gone atomic (what we want), and this will be opening many opportunities for small efficient companies catering to the Artists: from concert organisation, studio work, lyrics, marketing campaigns…before it were the BIG Lables who decided to drop or support new talents…now it’s going to be our decision. The one delivers all business model in music is dead. FACE IT BMG, SONY & Co.!
Take a glimpse at the car industry. They don’t build all of their parts themselves, assemble them, market them…they assemble thousands of parts and pieces catered from specialized companies around the globe…sadly they can’t be delivered in bits and bytes over the NET, but music and it’s services can. That is the future, a future without any big, monopolistic pricing, stone age, American nerd, record label!
Missing concept. Unstated is the fact that the content producers have been AGGRANDIZING their so-called “rights”. What was once legal is now being made illegal, not to mention criminal.
> she says, piracy is seen by many as increasingly “sexy”.
File-sharing is sexy because reproduction is sexy. ;)
Freedom is sexy. :)
A lot of sexy people here on Torrentfreak…
…except the industry moles. ;P
> Viviane Reding joined the debate, focusing on the need for reconciliation between the almost warring factions.
Moot point. The war has already been won by file-sharers.
> However, the fact that both sides are reluctant to see the world from the perspective of the other, progress is being held back.
False, and a moot point anyway, since the world has already changed and there’s loads of file-sharing/bit-torrent/hacking/etc. progress. Anyone’s potentially a free content provider.
Check out Archive.org or Kahvi.org or even You Tube for 3 examples.
> …with many in the file-sharing community more determined than ever to preserve their activities and nurture their beloved hobby, often in a particularly proud way, a point not lost on Reding.
Hardly a hobby for some. Various industries, such as software, promote virtual monopolies with costly closed-source apps and their customers end up being locked in.
Do the industries want a free market or not? Well, file sharing is now an element of it. It’s competition. So suck it up and compete.
> Noting that this age group should become the “foundation of our digital economy, of new innovation and new growth opportunities,”
They already are, despite the apparent whims of the corporate suits to maybe bring them over to their side and/or turn them against each other. For one, they are enabling file-sharing technology and hacking monopolistic software such as Photoshop for poor designers to share, use and learn from. Meanwhile, open source developers in many age groups are closing in. Also, such as on You Tube, we have become the new mainstream media. We create and consuming our own media, as it should be, so if the old one dried up tomorrow, we’d have plenty of good stuff to enjoy.
Ever seen Zeitgeist or Steal This Film or that Star Trek farce (forget the title)?
> It is necessary to penalize those who are breaking the law.
No, it is necessary to change the law if it goes against what the citizenry want and/or what is ethical, regardless of whether or not you think that it is a bunch of ‘16-24 year old hobbiests’.
> Have we considered all alternative options to repression?
Repression?! WTF?
> In my view, growing Internet piracy is a vote of no-confidence in existing business models and legal solutions. It should be a wake-up call for policy-makers.”
Smarten up: The policy makers are the people. The government are the people. Those elected are merely puppets to effect the whims of those who elect them. The word ‘power’ to describe a politician’s position is inaccurate. I prefer civil servant. Note ‘civil’, as opposed to ‘corporate’.
> If the media companies don’t make access to online media easier and more attractive “we could lose a whole generation as supporters of artistic creation and legal use of digital services. Economically, socially, and culturally, this would be a tragedy,” she said.
Nonsense. Media is not necessarily, and doesn’t need to be, provided by companies, and it may be far and away better off for it.
> Scaring people into becoming a customer is not a sustainable business model.
(shakes head)
> It is up to the entertainment companies to ensure that the route Internet users take to media is via their door, and not to that of the nearest torrent site.
On the contrary. It is up to those companies to get into another line of work. Try fishing for cod in the northern atlantic.
> When that will be is anyone’s guess. My guess is no time soon.
Ya whatever.
and so the twilight campaign began
http://www.twilightcampaign.net
companies just cant accept that we just don’t want to buy some of their products only to find out we hate them. if everyone who downloaded stopped buying the whole entertainment market would collapse. us so called criminals keep the market alive.
downloaders and sharers are also some of the MOST creative people out there! why? BECAUSE WE SHARE CONTENT, be it ‘legal’ or not, inspiration should be free, and rewarded. if you’ve downloaded something you love reward the creator. im unashamed to say i have downloaded plenty of music plugins to write music with, an because of native instruments discounts this month i can buy them! sometimes i just can’t afford to reward great content, but even if i didn’t watch the content – they wouldn’t get any more money.
Why is the “enemy” in the comments painted as massive greedy corporations who care nothing for art or music?
So many of those suffering because of piracy are quite the opposite: simply artists, writers, musicians, and other creators, who are just trying to make a living from their work so that they continue to create. Let’s also not forget that many record labels – especially smaller and independent labels – are truly aiming to create music with artistic value and integrity.
Neither these labels nor most artists can afford to operate as charities, or are lucky enough to be independently wealthy. We do not live in a socialist culture where one need not worry about income, after all. Many musicians – and often those with the greatest artistic integrity – barely scrape by financially as is. Why should such people be villainized for expecting quite reasonably to be paid when their work is valued and “consumed”?
14 references to this post
Responses are closed
All remaining responses will continue to be archived. Use the TorrentFreak forums if you want to discuss something.