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EU Court Asked To Rule On Legality Of Downloading From Illegal Sources

As part of a case between several computer media companies and the organization responsible for copying levies, the Dutch Supreme Court is set to seek the advice of the European Court of Justice concerning the right to make private copies. Currently it is considered acceptable for Dutch citizens to download copyrighted material for personal use, even if that content comes from an illicit source such as file-sharing networks. A ruling in the wrong direction could change all of that.

Last week the Dutch Supreme Court decided to refer some interesting questions to the European Court of Justice. The responses it receives back could have some serious implications for the tolerant environment currently enjoyed by file-sharers in the Netherlands.

The case involves argument over the country’s private copy levy, which sees Dutch citizens granted the right to carry out personal use copying in return for rightsholders picking up revenue from levies on blank media.

These levies are set through negotiation between a foundation representing authors and composers on one side, and producers of blank media on the other. In the most recent round the argument was raised that the current levy should also extend to cover downloads made from illegal sources, i.e from online file-sharing networks.

As confusing as it might sound, downloading from illegal sources is considered legal in the Netherlands. That notion was underlined in December 2011 when the Dutch parliament adopted a motion to keep downloading movies and music for personal use legal, and considering a situation where current copyright levies could be extended to downloading-related hardware such as hard drives.

“The Court of Appeals held that downloading from an illegal source is itself legal, mainly because the Secretary of Justice had repeatedly said so in Parliament and the language of the private copying article (from the Copyright Act) did not require a legal source explicitly,” Arnoud Engelfriet, a lawyer specializing in Internet law at the ICTRecht law firm, told TorrentFreak this morning.

However, the Supreme Court now makes the observation that the EU Copyright Directive may consider that copying from an illegal source is self-evidently illegal, so it has referred the matter to the European Court of Justice.

The Supreme Court has asked the ECJ several questions including whether private copying can only be legal if carried out from a legal source.

“[If we] suppose that’s the correct reading, can the Dutch then go further than the Directive and also legalize home copying from an illegal source? Or is *only* the Directive the source of legal acts within copyright law?” Engelfriet explains.

A report commissioned by the Dutch government in 2009 found that file-sharing has an overall positive effect on the Dutch economy, which is just as well since an estimated 30% of the population are believed to engage in the activity.

The decision of the ECJ will determine the continued legality – or otherwise – of downloading for personal use in the Netherlands, with the potential to affect millions.

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  • PirateSoldier

    Downloading for personal use seems acceptable however those that download purely for profit need to be hammered with fines.

    • Anyone

      how can you download for profit?

      • SF Legend

         Download, burn to disc, sell discs.

        • ndmushroom

           That has nothing to do with downloading, though. You could delete “download” from the sentence, and it would be exactly the same. The problem is not how you acquired the media you copy and sell for profit. It’s the act of copying and selling for profit itself.

        • ScrewEwe2

          Couldn’t have said it any better myself.

        • http://twitter.com/LeonelAdam1 LeonelAdam

          Emily answered I can’t believe that a student able to get paid $4249 in a few weeks on the network. did you look at this (Click on menu Home)

        • http://twitter.com/LeonelAdam1 LeonelAdam


          goo.gl/rdrPc

      • Nick

        Let’s clear one thing :: As a IT I have to test different software for the company I work for. I will certainly use   

        Trial” version, however when I want to see the real deal under the blanket I must download a cracked version and test it. Thats Personal use of downloaded softwares.

        When I get to the production mainframe to install the software I just tested out, I will need to get a license of the software (commercial use).

        Do you really think that my boss will let me spend his money on a bunch of softwares and just pick one out of 2 or 3 ??? My boss wants to make profit and been legal in the same time.

        That’s what I am used to do with downloaded softwares and I don’t want it to change. Just think about when you buy clothes, you will try different one before buying right? you will think twice if they cost you a K or 2…

        • Netgrazer

          I agree with you, but using commercial software without paying for the required license is always illegal in the Netherlands.

          Unfortunately not every type of software has an open source alternative. For example, The Gimp is a joke compared to Photoshop, and there is no CAD software for free that does what I need it to do. Yet.

        • nstlgc

          No, I think your example is one of the schoolbook examples of commercial copyright infringement. You download the software in order to create a commercial advantage (you can test your software so your customers will be happy). This is just about the opposite of personal use.

        • Nick

          You don’t have to tell everyone that you have done something illegal…just testing broah^^ keep it for yourself and the person above you (your boss)

        • derekread

           Isn’t this what trial versions are for? This is why my company offers a trial version. It is identical to the licensed version except that it stops working after 30 days.

      • Banana

        it is not possible really, you save money but you don’t profit.

      • Janny

        By offering downloads for a fee or a method to gain profit. Like thepiratebay, refusing to take torrents down due to piracy claims resulting in profits from ad revenue.

        I find it ironic how they claim a torrent isn’t the file so it cannot be deemed as illegal yet remove child p0rn from their website even though it’s… just a torrent.

        • Stephen Starko

          Perhaps that’d be because they have no moral qualms about linking to material which infringes on copyrights, but don’t like the idea of linking to child porn?

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Of course downloading for personal use IS acceptable, and there’s no “seems acceptable” about it!!  Are you mad?

      Anyway, what troubles me about this referral to the ECJ is that as far as I’m aware an EU Member State must comply fully with these Directives even when their ‘local’ or National laws say otherwise.

      And if that’s true, I suspect the ECJ will rule against Holland and our Dutch friends will have to resort to downloading by stealth (ie via a proxy, VPN or seedbox) to protect themselves from the spying prying eyes of the media corps. 

      The GOOD NEWS is that there’s such a backlog of work at the ECJ that it could take years to get the decision and in the meantime the Dutch can d/l with a free conscience.

      Hope I’m wrong about the effect of Euro-law on Member States though, so if anyone with better and more up-to-date knowledge than I knows the current situation – PLEASE post a reply.

      • Netgrazer

         As far as I know you’re right about European law overruling whatever the dutch have come up with since the audio cassette era. Fortunately, as you already pointed out, we have more than enough time to get comfortable using darknets such as TOR and Tribler (paid for by the EU, by the way).

      • townie2

         totally agree. we had something similar in Canada (downloading for personal use), but all the Government did was pass a new law making it illegal due to pressure from the U.S.

      • OccamsKatana

        Ah, but the catch here is legal vs illegal sources. Who deems what is a legal and not a legal source? 

        • OccamsKatana

          Ah, but the catch here is legal vs illegal sources. Who deems what is a legal and not a legal source?  IE: If a site hasn’t been found to be illegal in a court of law, it is assumed legal. Or it’s supposed to be……  What about outside of US or EU jurisdiction? Are Russian sites illegal? What a big bloody mess. We need a country to police the world and impose it’s rules on all of us…  Oh wait a sec……….

    • Guest

      You mean uploading for profit? (Cyberlockers that pay per download, desirable content delivers more downloads)

      Creative Commons Non-Profit FTW. Release EVERYTHING under it – All problems solved. Free flow among us, bit big media has to pay – fuck em, see how they like it.

      • Janny

         >You mean uploading for profit? (Cyberlockers that pay per download, desirable content delivers more downloads)
        Yes, like Megaupload, Wupload, Fileserve, Putlocker and a load of other sites. All gained traffic by paying warez uploaders and even if they recieved lots of DMCA takedowns from that uploader they still paid them.

        >Creative Commons Non-Profit FTW.
        Creative Commons Attribution FTW. Creative commons is brilliant and great for innovation. I love how they give the option to allow/disallow commerial usage etc. It’s a great license which needs to be used for digital downloads, copyright is currupt, CC is the future ;)

    • Aaeru

      Did you know that commercial copyright infringement was only made criminal in 1995 (TRIPS)? And it was the combined effort of a number of the biggest US firms that caused it to happen (see information feudalism). Before 1995, it was just a tort. There were no fines.

      This idea that the purpose of the law is to give commercial monopoly advantages
      to authors because I LIKE MY AUTHOR SO MUCH – has to die.
      The law biases no one. It is on the side of everyone, it is not allowed to bias anyone, because its purpose is to uphold justice. The purpose of law is not to  help some people make money. And that means it doesn’t exist to give special privileges to one constituents of society we call authors. If you want your law to be based on whatever ‘feels right’, then you better stay the hell away from law-making. Law is principled. You can’t ‘feel like’ the author should get it better so that they can live easier just because we want them to.

    • PiRat

      Copyright shouldn’t exist in the first place, it’s a state sponsored monopoly on distribution of ideas.

      If someone can copy something and sell it better, all the power to them, it’s competition a$$holes.

  • http://twitter.com/MAFIAAFire MAFIAAFire

    Whatever the result, its not really going to change people’s mindset.

    The genie is out of the bottle/lamp… and you have a better chance of getting something intelligent out of Paris Hilton than getting that genie to go back in his old housing.

    • JordanKratz

       Really would love to see a wikileaked MAFIAA exposed and their dirty laundry aired out in the public for all to see.

    • MadAsASnake

      Criminalising 30% + of the population is a really stupid thing to do, for all sorts of reasons. It ties up massive resources on shit that is unenforceable anyway. If that much of the population is doing it, the pervasive attitude in society clearly is that it is OK… BTW, is Paris Hilton running for prez again?

    • ScrewEwe2

      Paris Hilton=Skanky Assed Bitch

  • Waseihou

    No user can’t say for sure, whether the source is illegal or not. How he can know that the person distributing the content has no rights to do so? Downloader is therefore acting in a good faith, that the source is legal. Therefore the court will probably not make it illegal to download from illegal source, becuase it might criminalize possibly innocent person. It would also complicate a lot of things as it would bring a lot of uncertainity to user actions. Common practice has always been that responsible is uploader or initial seeder…

  • Zionist

    The truth is that, apparently we download stuff from the internet secretly.  I can physically walk into a store and steal a DVD or BD from a shelf.  Apparently justice says that downloading is worse then actually stealing a physical copy of the media.

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  • Danny

    Illegal source should read unlicensed source!

    • Asashii

      Bingo

    • 7th_Guest

      Yeah, Danny’s right, I believe. Infringement of copyright requires an action and that action is copying. If a file remains hosted on some web server but is never downloaded, no offense has been committed. Start downloading it without a license, however, and you become liable as the downloader. On the other hand, if you already do have a license for whatever it is you’re downloading from somewhere else (even, say, beforehand), both you as well as the source are off the hook. Source’s liability is affected by the downloader’s. At least, that’s how I understand the whole thing.

  • Anonymous

    jesus! the entertainment industries and all their lobbyists are going to be out in force, throwing money around like men with no arms to anyone they can possibly think of that will keep the control with them and out of the hands of the people. why should it be illegal to download anything that is not for commercial use? why should i not be able to make a backup of something that i have already bought (removing the protection on discs is illegal, not the copying. never been able to figure out how a copy of a protected disc can therefore be done!)? the music, movie, book and game industries are doing their damnedest to force people to get everything from ‘the cloud’. if/when they achieve that, no one will be purchasing a single physical item. all will be held digitally. however, the price charged will be exactly the same but there will be nothing that can be held in the hand. that also means there will be no 2nd hand market either. as usual, all the people will be losing out whilst all the companies will be gaining, massively!

    • YoudontneedtoknowhoIam

      You obviously never heard of blind copying then…at one point in time there were prorgrams that simply just copied EVERYTHING on the disc..the copy protection schemes too. It didn’t care if stuff was copy protected, as it gobbled up the protection program as well…it ate it all as raw data. Look up some of the older copies of CloneCD..it was famous for this sort of thing…

      • MadAsASnake

        Most DVD’s today have deliberately corrupt filesytems to put a spanner in the copy works. It’s easy to get around or course…

    • ScrewEwe2

      At least in the US there will probably always be DVD and BluRay rentals through companies like Netflix, Redbox, Blockbuster and others in the foreseeable future. Then you can use DVDFab, AnyDVD, DVD Shrink and other apps to remove the region coding and copyright protections to create an ISO image to burn a copy or convert to a wide number of video formats, and if those apps are not available some day, others will be available. 

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  • chronoss chiron

    title makes no sense how can you download from an illegal source if its illegal 

  • Guest

    So does that not mean that the current levy is actually a double payment?

    paying for the content (since you would probably have to purchase the content for it to be considered legal) then paying for the privilege to burn it to disk? 

    a friend wouldn’t be considered a legal source since they have no legal right to give you a copy

    • Dupe

       dont forget the extra tax that is paid when buying blank discs, all of which is to offset downloading instead of purchasing as well. and dont forget that the majority of entertainment companies are also involved in the companies that make burners, the copying software and removal of region protection etc

      • MadAsASnake

        It is my view that these fees cover any burning of copyright material and that in that light, pursuing downloaders is wrong. If they wish to say that it is illegal to burn copyright media to disk then they should not be collecting a generic license fee for it. They certainly should not be collecting it for media used for other purposes

  • Jessica

    If people didn’t want the ability to fileshare the way they do, they wouldn’t be doing it worldwide. The law exists for US not corporate interests OVER ours!

    • 7th_Guest

      US == Corporate interests :p.

  • WugMac

    lol, like anyone cares about some kangaroo EU court lol.
    AnonNation.tk

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  • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

    I’m studying voodoo hexes. I’m pretty sure anyone who copies my IP address will be sodomized to death by penguins. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FCNK7C55CBUYFVSC5LNWKB322E Buglord

       how about if I copy half of it? can I get the penguins and not die?

  • LobbyingfortherightReason

    I hope European Court of Justice rules in favor off legal because if your already paying a license to rightsholders on blank media even if you don’t use the blank media for their content (yes because when you buy a DVD cake to burn your homemade videos or pictures your still paying that license)

    Because if they don’t them I recommend people in countries it the blank media levy demand that the levy be thrown away since it does nothing but make us waste more money that goes directly to big bussiness rightsholders pocket even if you the rightsholder of what you are burning

    Also I have a question would people be interrested in creating a lobby (preassure group) that fight for the rights of people with the donations of people not those of big bussiness?

    • http://twitter.com/krozareq krozareq

      The last thing I burned to a DVD was a TrueCrypt boot disc. I’m glad I generally refuse to use optical media. 

    • 7th_Guest

       You mean like the EFF or the Internet Defense League?

  • Jvwe

    What next? Not buying DVD is a crime! You must buy at least one a week.

    • Bob

       AND a CD, E-book, regular book, and all the special editions of said CDs, Books, and DVDs

  • Nezar Freeny

    This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers in the file-sharing/file-hosting market. I hope the penalties don’t become Draconian.

    They could still rule it to be legal, if anyone will do it it’s the Dutch. But based on Europe’s recent moves toward copyright enforcement it’s still up in the air.

  • Violated0

    Well if they want to separate out downloads from legal and illegal sources then the big question must be who gets to play the GATEKEEPER who separates out the two? Is not that role then open to commercial competitive abuse between rivals?

    Then how exactly are the users supposed to know what files out of a group of them are from legal and illegal sources? Clearly if they just see some “Check out this awesome video” link then there is a whole range of possibilities what this video actually is including shareware, public domain, creative commons and more.

    Beyond already stepping into a world of confusion we can add another whole new Inception-like level to this when we consider lawful media from so-called illegal sites and unlawful media from lawful sites.

    Since this is once again a battle for control then they obviously will not be satisfied until the consumers are removed from all control.

  • khung
  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CH76QIKXYIFA2FZ2DXC6NUZ24A Andrei

    Maybe I’m stupid but what exactly is an “illegal source” ? I understand in some places it is illegal to download a piece of work that is copyrighted from a source that is not approved by the copyright owner.
    However, how can a source be illegal in itself? A source (like a file sharing network) holds a variety of content, some may be deemed illegal but other content can be legal.

    Therefore I don’t see how “illegal” applies to the source itself.

    • Guest

       Been paying attention to the Megaupload case?  In our Brave New World, all it takes is for a few wealthy dinosaurs to bribe a few clueless and/or corrupt politicians, and a source becomes “illegal” by fiat and without due process or trial. 

      • Anon

        I think that’s true. In the next gen the world’s infringement servers will be treated like a house of prostitution or drugs. It’s a prima facie taking by the cops based on what is evident until trial. Servers will fall that way, too, with greater punishments the more you try to hide them.  

      • Guest

        Have YOU been paying attention to the Megaupload case? The corporatocracy is currently getting its ass whipped for what it did. When the dust settles, the world will likely be a much safer place for “illegal” sources.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CH76QIKXYIFA2FZ2DXC6NUZ24A Andrei

        I’m not denying the way the RIAA/MPAA government lackeys treat download sources they can’t control.
        However, when more balanced (or even opposite) views are expressed, I am surprised they used the terminology without quotes. To me (and others, including law scholars) this “default” identification has no basis, regardless of who does what.

  • Guest

    I have this feeling that the EU court will rule it to be illegal and I am basing this on the recent case in The Netherlands that the court there ruled it illegal to link to copyright and if it is illegal to link to copyright then it must therefore be illegal to download from that link. I hope that I am proved wrong by the EU court.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      I have a feeling that they will rule it to be legal. The EU courts have been harsh on trying to keep people from protecting their investments.

  • The_Strawbear

    What if it’s your friend who’s the original seed for a torrent, is that an illegal source as it happens via ISPs rather than him lending you the disc?

    Very muddy waters, someone’s going to be very unhappy by the end of this.

    It’s an interesting system the Dutch have going on, would be interested to see some financial figures from media companies for that territory.

  • Guest

    We’re talking about the country that has BREIN, right? Expect Tim Kuik to throw a huge temper tantrum.

  • Midas

    The people of my country massively voted for the party(VVD) that brought life to the ban on downloading, as well as the weedpass (which is even more retarded). And when I ask people who voted for that party whether or not they agree to it, they all claim they do not. I see grim times ahead when people do not even read the parties program before they vote. 

    We are taking steps backwards, the battle is lost. 

    • DutchGuest

       Meh, nothing we can’t solve by shooting that fat fuck Fred Teeven.

  • 1hhh1

    It’ll take years before it reaches the European court,there’s a delay of over 2 years at the moment

  • foff

    Impossible since the court would have to define what is an illegal source and how can that possible be done?  Since the court has already said limited sharing of physical media is legal a certain amount online should be legal.  Given that limited sharing is probably legal how do you separate a quote legal source from an illegal source?

    Since copyright law really was developed for physical media and decision a court makes is made up law because there are no copyright laws that specifically define what rights a copyright holder has over digital media.  In my opinion protections over digital media need to be far different that protections of physical media.  The life of digital media is very short.  Most things that hit the net are hard to find after a few months and almost impossible after a year or two.  So protections extending for more that a year are practically meaningless.  Since digital media is only good for consumption and has no other value it is like junk food and should be priced it.  

  • Jimbo

    in all honesty, if the entertainment industries weren’t such a bunch of ignorant, selfish arse holes that listened to their customers, were prepared to adapt and join everyone else in the digital C21, there wouldn’t be any case to take to any court anyway. they have always been their own worse enemies, expecting not just customers but also governments and law enforcement to continuously bail them out of the shit-pit they keep putting themselves in. the idea they have, i am sure, is to stop selling physical items completely, forcing all their products to be available from the ‘cloud’ only. they will expect the same financial rewards for conducting business in this way, even though nothing is actually handed over the counter to customers. it will decimate any type of 2nd hand market as well. looking back over history, think of what we would not have had if things had prevented from being allowed to be sold on.

  • Illegallegality

    Perhaps we should go from “illegal source” to “unauthorized / unofficial source” since this is in fact as described legal.

    Some days confusion is all in the wording

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  • 45King

    In dutch it’s called “super kut dus!”

  • Whynot

    Considering how Japan recently toughened up the country’s laws and made it illegal to receive an unlawful download, why won’t other countries do the same?

  • Trying

    Enigmax, you might want to reconsider using the term “illegal source” – since the source may indeed be legal in its country of origin, (though unsanctioned by the copyright owner — especially one domiciled in another country). Consider Rojadirecta, a streaming site judged legal in court in its native country of Spain, but regardless, declared illegal *and seized* by the US government.

  • Moy

    What exactly constitutes an “illegal source” when a file transfer is legal in one country but not legal in the other? Which country’s law governs, the source or the destination?

    Or is it like most things — whichever country has the most guns and bombs … and lawyers makes the rules? 

    • albie

      It’s the second thing.

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  • wastou899
  • http://twitter.com/xRDVx Ardyvee

    Can’t we mail the EU Court and try to steer their decision towards “it is legla to do so”?

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