TorrentFreak

The place where breaking news, BitTorrent and copyright collide

European Commissioner Lambasts ‘Copyright Middlemen’

European Commissioner for Digital Agenda Neelie Kroes has warned copyright middlemen and content gatekeepers that they risk being sidelined. The restrictive systems they have set up irritate the public and leave “a vacuum which is served by illegal content,” said Kroes, who added that a new approach to copyright is the answer. One which looks beyond “corporatist self-interest”.

kroes digiAt the Forum d’Avignon – Les rencontres internationales de la culture, de l’économie et des médias (International meetings of culture, economy and media) last Friday, European Commissioner for Digital Agenda Neelie Kroes gave a very interesting speech on how the preservation of culture is being restricted by rights-holders.

“Borders are now crossed more easily than ever before in history. It is a great opportunity for artists and creators of all kinds, as art has no limits but those of our minds,” said Kroes. “Art enriches itself by eliminating artificial barriers between people such as borders between countries.”

The breaking down of borders is made even easier these days, largely thanks to the planet’s most powerful tool for dissemination – the Internet. But the free flow of information – of culture – is a problem to those whose businesses rely on controlling where and how it is accessed.

But, Kroes says that thanks to the Internet revolution, these “content gatekeepers and intermediaries” are in a vulnerable position, referring to the many organizations that exploit and defend copyright for corporate interests.

“Like it or not, content gatekeepers risk being sidelined if they do not adapt to the needs of both creators and consumers of cultural goods,” she warned.

While noting that copyright has proven itself historically as a system capable of getting money to artists, it can also be a frustration to those wishing to preserve culture.

Referring to the “digital wonder” of those digitising cultural works for the Europeana portal, Kroes worries about the huge problem of obtaining permissions and licensing for 20th century items, media which is tied up in complex legal frameworks and managed by rights-holders.

“Today our fragmented copyright system is ill-adapted to the real essence of art, which has no frontiers. Instead, that system has ended up giving a more prominent role to intermediaries than to artists,” said Kroes.

“It irritates the public who often cannot access what artists want to offer and leaves a vacuum which is served by illegal content, depriving the artists of their well deserved remuneration. And copyright enforcement is often entangled in sensitive questions about privacy, data protection or even net neutrality.”

Kroes went even further, noting that those who avoid debate – the rights-holders – often do so to protect their vested interests, and instead choose to discuss the issue of copyright on “moralistic terms that merely demonise millions of citizens.”

According to Kroes that approach is unsustainable and the solution lies in copyright reform which looks beyond “national and corporatist self-interest.”

“I will remember artists and citizens with each step forward,” she concludes. “Artists cast light on our world; our job is to let the light shine in.”

Related Posts

Previous Post | Next Post

  • Artemis

    Wow, finally a sane voice in all this!

  • Bob

    Well put, some common sense in there.

  • Dia

    Dia – Preserving Art since 2001.

  • Ikip

    Nah, that’s all way to sensible.

  • Freaky

    Neelie Kroes = love!

    I honestly dropped a tear! I was that deeply touched.

  • x3style

    Neelie Kroes i vote you for president of the World’s Culture!!!

  • Aficianado

    Whoah Neelie!

  • wow

    She’s one of the few officials who understand the issues and have the balls to speak out openly against the corporates and the sorry state of things.

    She has my full respect and admiration.

    Quickly now, someone point Mr Cameron and his troupe of copyright reformists to this lady, before the corporate lobbyists get a hold of them!

  • A glimmer of sanity

    Guys, can somebody dig up a office contact address for this lady?

    We should send her a ton of flowers, like we did for that professorguy who stood up for TPB in court.

    As easily as we fire up our LOIC’s to beat the crap out of those who cross us, I think we should show equal kindness towards those who support our cause to let them know their voice of reason is widely appreciated in a sea of madness and greed.

    Think about it.

  • giz

    if we had to vote for some kind of “president of the internet’ i would choice her. now, ban those criminals like BREIN/burmasterma out of country.

  • x3style
  • wonderwhy-er

    @A glimmer of sanity:
    Second that, I want Anonymous/4chan to make new movement of sending her flowers or something and this time I will participate.

    Hurray to breath of fresh air in to that dusty and rusty copyright framework.

  • fs

    I always wonder why the translator is never credited anywhere. I assume the original was in French?

  • giz

    @13 it was in dutch, neelie kroes is dutch.

  • Acce

    I Hope she as the power to change things. But we all know that corporations frown upon that kind of speech. They’ll keep flooding us with DRMs and lawsuits. In the meantime, keep seeding!

  • Pingback: Tweets that mention European Commissioner Lambasts ‘Copyright Middlemen’ | TorrentFreak -- Topsy.com

  • x3style

    I’ve sent her an e-mail to that contact adress, i felt i had to tell how i felt about this.

    Everyone should show some support.

  • Anonymous

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    . . . . . . She makes TOO MUCH sense . . . . . .

    . . . . . . . To be taken seriously . . . . . . .

  • Mongo

    That just made my day

    @12 Glimmer – excellent idea. Looked at the contact info that someone else posted and I believe this her contact address:

    Neelie Kroes
    European Commission
    BERL 10/224
    Brussels 1049
    Belgium

    And here’s a handy link for sending flowers: http://www.interflora.com

    C’mon folks – lets load up the “FlowerCannons” for once and show this lady her work is appreciated.

  • GrX

    until they are bought out just like everyone else who wants to put some common sense on the table then she’/he will back peddle as if they was swimming for sharks.

  • Jo Derntss

    LOL, yeah OK. Should be interesting to see where that ends up going lol

    online-privacy.edu.tc

  • noone

    lets hope that

    “Today our fragmented copyright system is ill-adapted to the real essence of art, which has no frontiers. Instead, that system has ended up giving a more prominent role to intermediaries than to artists,” said Kroes

    Doesn’t mean what we need is ACTA. I hope that she can look beyond statuory damages and cases like RIAA

    I really hope so but i doubt it.

  • Wal-Mart

    This woman has no idea what she’s talking about. If we do this then the artists won’t get paid and soon there will be nothing. Copyright laws would work if people would stop stealing …

  • X

    @22 Nov 10, 2010 at 17:28 by Wal-Mart

    ANY law would work if people blindly obeyed them. -_-

  • MeepMeep

    @22 Your point makes no sense if you really read what she said. Maybe its bad for you that someone highly educated and with that big influence is just translating what we [the consumers] want to a speech that makes sense ?

  • Talorthain

    Its amazing to see a true light shine in the darkness cast by the corporations.

    I would vote for her.

  • Pingback: Delegada Européia repreende “Intermediários dos Direitos Autorais” | Racional P2P

  • Rob

    I’d really like to see an interview with her about this to give us a clearer idea of what she means.

    Also, flower power? Yes.

  • Anonguy

    @22:
    Neither do we steal, nor do YOU have any idea what you are talking about. But I won’t feed the trolls any further.

    —–

    Also, I really like the idea with the flowers. Any chance we could really get that moving?

  • Anonymous

    @everybody who replied to @22:

    Your sarcasm detectors are broken. That was clearly sarcasm.

  • aForce

    Finally a sane opinion in the right place. Kroes FTW!
    Yes, the Dutch are proud of her!

  • Jeff

    @28: Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between sarcasm and trolling.

    I am not so sure that it is sarcasm as it reads like so many other troll comments that have been posted on TF.

  • Anonguy

    @28

    Well, if that was indeed sarcasm, it was pretty ambigous and subtle. But meh.

  • A Person

    Before you start sending flowers, I think it would be a good idea to learn her full agenda. I, personally, support almost all of it, if not all of it. Here is a link to her planned “Future Actions.”

    http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/cf/pillar.cfm?pillar_id=45

  • Anonymous

    It’s about time a politician spoke out in favour of culture and the interests of civilians. Too many politicians appeared to be sucked into protecting industries and serving corporate interests. A Government’s priority should be the interest of the people that they serve and the interests of corporations and private industries second. Not the other way round! I’m very glad Neelie Kroes appears to recognise this.

  • kuru

    if she wasn’t a politician i would say: not bad at all.
    but so: blah blah blah…

  • Flying Dutchman

    “Like it or not, content gatekeepers risk being sidelined if they do not adapt to the needs of both creators and consumers of cultural goods,” she warned.

    She couldn’t have said it better! These Coörperations with their Old Business models really think they are “special” compared to other businesses, but they aren’t. In the Business world, if you don’t adapt to technology, you will go bankrupt. Thats Marketing Basics!

    They need to adapt to the world, Instead, they force the world to adapt to them…

  • Johnny

    This is not just some politician, she has spent 6 years as the EU’s competition commissioner during which she vigorously fought abusive monopolies and protected the interests of consumers.

    Both Microsoft and Intel suffered her wrath and had to pay huge fines. If she didn’t hesitate to take them on, she won’t hesitate to take on the MAFIAA either.

    What she says shouldn’t be taken lightly. MAFIAA be warned.

    I say: Neelie for President!

  • omg

    hell yeah it took a french women to finally said what everyone has been thinking and why we are all still “pirates”

    i second 36 Nellie for president !

  • anonymous

    like already said, it makes a change to hear someone in a position of authority, that has some knowledge and common sense, state officially what has been known by millions around the world for decades. her job now is to convince the other ‘powers that be’ that what she is saying is right. i wish her all the luck with that challenge! whilst there are ‘leaders’ like sarkosy and camaron (whose government have just, basically, rebuffed the UK people by continuing to side with the ‘industries’ over the DEB), she certainly has an uphill struggle on her hands!

  • fry

    go back to your kitchen old hag

  • Devo

    @39 Make sure there are flowers in the kitchen waiting for the “old bag”.

  • Cookie

    @13; It was probably translated by an in-house EU translator. We are never credited on day-to-day translations like press releases, web site updates or information materials. Neither are we credited for translation of treaties, directives or other legal documents. The only time you might be credited as the translator is for proper books or articles with ISBN or ISSN, but those are rare occasions.

  • Anon

    Just remember, wherever there is someone or something blocking something from access.. there will always be someone or something granting access to it.

    That is the way of the internet, forever and always. It is a system that regulates itself, allowing no one thing to gain control. Anyone attempting to control it is seen as a weakness and is crushed and humiliated for a warning to others.

    The internet is like the ocean, it gives and it takes with no remorse.

  • Francisco George

    She also use twitter:

    @neeliekroeseu

    she tweeted also about this

    http://www.quoteurl.com/zgrkv

  • Anonymous

    It is not the artists making all the noise. It must be nice to live off the backs of someone else and constantly make noise.

    Simon Cowell never created anything himself but crowned himself an expert at finding talent and made millions off of others creative talent.

    Copyright laws protect mostly middlemen any artist worth there salt does fine even with piracy. I don’t see Celine dion going to the poor house anytime soon because of piracy. Her Vegas contract alone pays her enough to live several lifetimes without worrying about money.

    All the trolls that post here guaranteed are middlemen or are supported by them. They are not artists but using copyright laws to live off of them.

  • Francisco George

    To #26

    Your desire is fullilled this is the link to her interview on ARTE TV

    http://www.arte.tv/fr/europeens/-le-forum-d-Avignon/3517772.html

    Go to bottom of the page.

    Best regards

    Francisco
    @paco229

  • Yogi

    Look who forgot to bribe a politician!
    Surely heads will roll in the RIAA bribery dept.

  • Anonymous

    @22

    Trollololololololol

  • Freedom.Fighter

    “Any one still clinging to the cage format for music is either a middle man or lazy” ~Gavin Castleton’s “Great American Bottleneck” Go listen to it.

    This woman deserves a lot of respect for this. Thank you for adding sensible views to the discussion of copyright reform instead of arguing over and over that the old laws simply need to be better enforced.

  • Flying Dutchman

    @37 omg

    She’s Dutch, not French =)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neelie_Kroes

  • Whatanoob

    Nelie isn’t French, she’s Dutch.

  • Digiprotector

    Hey, I am from Digiprotect. We can be thought of as copyright middlemen, pursuing those who distribute ‘our works’ without consent. All we do is add value back to the original copyright holder. Is that such a bad thing?

  • Anon

    Bravo, Neelie Kroes.

  • anonymous

    @51
    If the added value to the copyright holder comes at a cost to the consumer, then it will be reflected by the ‘invisible hand of the market’. Example: I refuse to buy anything with DRM. whether drm is good or bad is irrelevant to your clients me thinks. I imagine they only care about money. So let’s forget about ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Does the added value you give to your clients (the rights holders) affect the bottom line? You bet it does. Whether making Jammie Thomas an example has helped music sales or incensed a generation to boycott RIAA groups is up in the air. Certainly though from ‘our’ point of view though, suing women and children to bankruptcy, sonys cd root kits, discontinued music drm servers resulting in lost property without remuneration, clogging p2p with viruses, bribing away our right to representation through lobbyists, etc. IS considered ‘bad’. We really REALLY do appreciate hearing your side tho. Notice I have not called you a troll. Others probably will, but you walked into torrent freak and debated us openly and honestly and I LOVE that, and want you to here my honest, respectful (I hope) reply. In the end we are all here because we love the open and free flow of information the interwebs supplies, and the fact that we can even have this honest rapport without having ever met is amazing. WE LOVE YOU INTERNET!!!!

  • trinsic

    IS there any video of this event?

  • trinsic

    Here is a link to her blog post about the subject we should all comment on it.

    Also I wish there was a video of this speech as it should be viraled on youtube. It would be smart to get a well established person like this on the record for fixing copyright.

  • trinsic

    Here is a link to her blog post about the subject we should all comment on it.
    http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/neelie-kroes/fixing-copyright-offers-a-world-of-digital-opportunities/

    Also I wish there was a video of this speech as it should be viraled on youtube. It would be smart to get a well established person like this on the record for fixing copyright.

  • MAFIAA

    Damn! We forgot to bribe one…

  • Smith

    @51
    That certainly isn’t a bad thing at all. Artist should get paid for their work. But the current system has alot of flaws.

    You see, comment 53 already mentioned most of the points already what made people hate Copyright that much (Including me to be honest). Coörperations like the RIAA thinks that by sueing someone to oblivious will scare people and stop File-sharing, but really the opposite has happened. More and more people have started to hate the RIAA and simular companies, which resulted in even more File-Sharing.

    And on top of that, these law-offices profiting by blackmailing people, scaring the crap out of them (pay us $$$ or we destroy your and your childrens lives in court). This summarized gives Copyright a REALLY bad name.

  • StevO

    I still say screw em. I will not buy any dvds or CDs just like i did not before the internet. Once I can get a refund for crappy tunes or movies I will happily start buying them.

  • h33t

    Agenda Neelie Kroes gets my vote

    breath of fresh air blowing through the stinking aroma of rotten flesh in the MAFIAA whorehouse

    http://www.h33t.com says we are not your slaves

  • StevO

    Who is to say that the labels are good or bad for artists? They get to make the distinction between what they are going to let us listen to. They decide who they are going to promote. Some dic%head exec, who may or may not have an ear for music makes the choice for us. Then its manufactured for radio and what market gets to listen to it. Its a big fat stinking joke. I dont know whay these artists continue to play the game with them.Let the internet decide who gets promoted, thru concert tickets and merchandise. All stuff they can take with them when they tour. We no longer want Disney to tell us who and what we like.

  • StevO

    Im also gettting sick of the internet too. Youtube is becoming a frickin joke with their ADS. I dont want a new fking phone and I now HATE AT&T, that I didnt care before but now I HATE THEM! You people needs to quit being bradized every 5 minutes and CHOOSE by research and not repeated advertising. THEY LIE. They were liars in the beginning and they still LIE over and over, about BEST and BETTER. We want SIMPLER you idiots. 2 years ago everyone wanted the SLIM tiny phones NOW everyone brags about how BIG they are. What!?!?! Humans are idiots, and once you wise up and shut your pocket book maybe some of this shit will go away for good.

  • lulz

    I tried three sites to send flowers and can’t seem to get them to show delivering to BELGIUM. I’ll admit ignorance of mailing outside the U.S. as I’ve never had to do so, but I’m trying to send flowers!

    If someone could actually post how to send her flowers that WILL show up at her office I will totally do that, but I just can’t figure it out myself.

    Willing to drop $50 for this!

  • h33t

    thing is if you and your mates start a band in your garage then go to Sony, EMI or Universal asking for a record contract you get the answer “fuk off we make our own music. we make our own groups”

    it was always that way. in the beginning EMI owned the player, the record , the press, the distribution network, the shops, the artist, everything

    it is ONLY today that artists have the opportunity to distribute their content outside of the MONOPOLY. please dont forget that MONOPOLIES are illegal because of the damage they do to innovation and development!

    the MAFIAA has suppressed social and cultural growth for more than a half century. BASTA! (for the n00bs = ENOUGH!)

    http://www.h33t.com artists taking their own rights

  • Sally

    @lulz Belgium is right next door to The Netherlands the world’s largest producer of flowers ….

    ahem

    “google is your friend”

  • ITMA

    Open letter – Distribute freely
    We at the ITMA (International Toy Makers Association) would like to voice our support for our brothers in the RIAA and MPAA for setting the new paradigm that exposes sharing for what it is – piracy.
    For far too long we stayed silent as our rights had been violated by kids sharing their toys with others.
    We estimate that due to flagrant toy sharing, we are tapping less than 10% of our potential market.

    Based on the new paradigm, we propose new legislation that will get us the justice we so rightly deserve. Millions of people around the world are employed by our members, who work hard to develop, create, market and distribute toys to kids, only to see their efforts getting stolen by free-loaders who enjoy the toys without paying for the experience. All this rampant sharing robs toy retailers of billions of dollars, and makes even ToysRus vulnerable to going out of business.

    As we know, toys are IP products that lose their novelty and exclusivity with repeated exposure. By sharing other kids’ toys, abusers are able to satisfy their desire and become reluctant to buy these toys for themselves. Anti-sharing legislation will solve this abuse and increase toy sales. We are not breaking new ground with our demands since the RIAA and MPAA have already established the fact that sharing is immoral, unethical, and illegal.

    We will establish a task force to persecute violators. We propose to embed RF tags in our products and have roving patrols scan neighborhoods to detect any toy presence outside of registered premises. Violators will be sued with multi-million dollar penalties. Of course we are reasonable people and will allow the kids to work-off their debts in our toy factories.

    We will work with religious groups to tone down their hate-speech and re-write the scriptures. The message of “sharing is caring” is too subversive and inconsistent with the new paradigm. It encourages just the sort of violations we seek to eliminate.

    Our enforcement personnel will be deployed to playgrounds to ensure that kids who can’t afford their own toys, will have to sit outside the playground, and look in with envy and resentment. There are no negative social consequence from doing that at all, on the contrary. Envy and greed contribute to competitive social dynamics that separate the winners from the losers. If we are to remain a nation of winners, we must keep the losers down by any means necessary, including manufacturing artificial scarcity, and ceaseless propaganda for meaningless consumption.

    We support circumventing constitutional due process with secretive “trade agreements”, and we applaud the Obama administration and Congress for looking the other way, while we implement the new paradigm.

    Remember our motto kids: “he who has the most toys wins!”

  • Anon

    @63 Nov 11, 2010 at 02:36 by lulz

    “If someone could actually post how to send her flowers that WILL show up at her office I will totally do that”

    Here you go: http://www.interflora.be/

    Delivery country and payment currency are at the top-left.

  • Anonymous

    All this talk of art and artists is nonsense.

    The mainstream music and movie industry is just business. Nothing more, nothing less.

    They couldn’t care less whether something is ‘art’ produced by an ‘artist’, it’s irrelevant to them, as long as they can sell it.

  • jon7272

    [66] lol

  • hmm

    agree with 68 look at xfactor non art

  • tttt

    .

  • anon

    I like #66 lol

  • lulz

    @67 Thanks, that’s much better than the results I was getting with my tries off Google.

    @66 We should do a major printing of that and snail mail it to RIAA/MPAA, senators, and the white house. If they get buried with something like that it would be a riot. Emails just don’t seem to cut the bread due to the mass amount of spam and easy deleting/filtering.

  • momoola

    “It irritates the public who often cannot access what artists want to offer and leaves a vacuum which is served by illegal content, depriving the artists of their well deserved remuneration.”

    “Depriving”? When you copy data, you are not “depriving” anyone of anything.

    It sounds like this person is talking about the act of ‘stealing’ potential profit. However, if they believe that this is possible, then everyone in existence is ‘guilty’ of this. You ‘steal’ potential profit merely by not giving someone your money or by interfering with someones flow of profits. Meaning, if you decide not to buy a product from a store, you have ‘deprived’ (at least by their logic) the store of profit that they could have had.

    Obviously, that makes absolutely zero sense. That’s not even taking into account the fact that basic logic states that for you to be able to steal something, it must first exist. Potential profit does not exist.

    No one is being deprived of anything.

  • neo’s mirror

    I love how the mafiaas think they are above the law lol

  • neo’s mirror’s mirror

    lol

  • anon

    DRM toys lol

  • Anonymous

    americans, u mad?

  • anon

    Good speech, it takes this whole p2p debate into the 21st century, something the decrepit old bastards at the RIAA, and other “has-been-protectionist” groups deny has occurred, when will they change their calenders from 1980 to 2010?

  • anon2

    @ #66
    dont forget the ‘potential’ profit car manufacturers and public transport companies are losing when a person takes a lift in another persons car to go to work or to go to the shops. wont be long before all vehicles will be made that only allow a single person to use them!

  • Neelie Kroes

    Neelie Kroes (born July 19, 1941) is a Dutch politician of the People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD). She was the European Commissioner for all of us.
    nice- – http://www.fajltube.com/menedzsment/index2.php

  • lverona

    Nice that she says these things, but who cares what anybody says? There are a lot of sensible people around here too, so what? Has that changed anything?

    As long as people who have real power don’t believe what she says and actually do what they say – all these lines, sweet to our ears, mean nothing.

  • anon

    To @51 Digiprotect, you are trying to turn digital product into vinyl or 8-track or some other outdated analog format. this is 2010, it’s true that years ago folks could not mass reproduce LP’S, or cassetts in their homes, so entertainment product was protected not by the law but by natural limitations. with digital entertainment that protection is gone forever. attacking p2p downloading is not going to bring it back, no DRM protection model will be able to outwit those who can reverse any digital encoding, if it can be protected digitally, it can be UNprotected. whether it is moral or not people can’t be relied upon to pay $15.00 for something they can get for free, such expectations are just goofy. Using copyright law to crucify a few “examples” hardly walks hand in hand with morality. these examples should not be held accountable for the whole fallout of progress where the dissemination of entertainment media is concerned. It is evil. I’m not against artists and their business partners getting paid for their honest efforts to produce entertainment, but they need to be realistic. If the torrent sites are so damned profitable then start a torrent site with your stuff and stop expecting the whole population of the planet to keep living in 1980.

  • The Dude

    Here here!

  • lverona

    @74

    “Meaning, if you decide not to buy a product from a store, you have ‘deprived’ (at least by their logic) the store of profit that they could have had.”

    This is an incorrect analogy, by the way. The difference is that if you decide not to buy a product from a store – you do not have it. When you copy – you decided not to buy the product, but you actually have it and are using it – thus, if you did not copy, you would have to buy it in order to use it.
    This is the logic.

    Of course, nobody can objectively answer the question of whether you would buy a cd if it was available for money only and not as free download, but their logic is not entirely false.

    The false thing is the conclusion they make – let’s consider every download a lost sale. This is obviously a wrong assumption. But they decide to act on it anyway, since they prefer to get more money than less.

  • lverona

    @83 Yeah, I agree with what you say. I think the industry does not open a torrent tracker for a simple reason – they know that torrent sites are not as profitable as they claim. If you saw interviews with Pirate Bay guys, they say it straight-forwardly – they did not make much money, most of it went to pay for bandwidth and servers. It is an unfortunate truth – torrent tracker business is tricky and is not profitable by default. You have to actually work a lot on it and even than I doubt you would get a lot of clean profit.
    A lot of those torrent site cases are bogos – owners of the site say they do not make a lot of money, but the court does not care about expenses, they just deal with the money those owners get from ads. That 90% of that money goes to fund the site seems irrelevant to them.

  • Pingback: EU-Kommissarin Neelie Kroes watscht Copyrightkonzerne ab « 11k2

  • Whatever

    I might be a bit sceptical but…
    Wait a week or 2 to see if she takes back her words like so many others did before (And sharing is still called illegal).

    Everyone who only says something remotely bad about the middlemen are immediatelly hailed as a hero. I guess its because there are so few positive things coming from people in the right positions that anything is taken as a relief.

  • Colin

    @82…’but who cares what anybody says?’ Mrs Kroes is not just anybody, she is a European Commissioner and so in a position of great power – as Microsoft and Intel among others found out when she was EU Commissioner for Competition. They failed to nobble her, and I think the MAFIAA will also fail.

  • anon

    @86 point well taken, the recorded entertainment industry should look for a business model that takes into account how “unprotected” their “protected” content really is, like the torrent sites. They must face the hard fact that what brought in $50.00 in the day of analog product may only bring in .10 cents in the day of digital content. That is because of progress not p2p file sharing. They want to believe the old profit margins are still possible through litigation, I say wrong answer.

  • BAReFOOt

    Can someone check if the temperature in hell fell below the freezing point? I can’t leave the house right now, cause the air’s full of flying pigs.

  • Johnny

    @74 Maybe you should read this sentence again:

    “It irritates the public who often cannot access what artists want to offer and leaves a vacuum which is served by illegal content, depriving the artists of their well deserved remuneration.”

    She says that artists are being deprived of remuneration by the fact that no legal way exists to consume their products. In other words that those people who would have gladly paid for something couldn’t. She’s basically blaming the music and movie industry itself for depriving artists of sales…

  • anonymous

    LOLZ @66
    spot on, too bad our taxes pay these dbags cuz there’s just no stopping them. They WILL get paid, they don’t care how, looks likeawsuits against the citizens and subsidized by the citizens now. It’s like the war on drugs/ terror. These things are pretty worthless UNLESS IT’S YOUR JOB. then your making bank off drugs and ‘terrorists’ (personally I think mafiaa are the real terrorists, I’ve never actually been threatened by a Muslim, the mafia on the other hand seems to be attacking citizens left and right. Pay up or else letters ARE terrorism) so yeah, everyones gettin paid off made up social issues through OUR taxes. They are so corrupt it’s insane. All you can really do is take back that money ANY way you can. DIY is a good way to stick it to them. DIY music/ movies are what were here about anyway. Me making ALL the effort to ‘pirate’ is DIY. mafiaa doesn’t deserve to get ANY money for it. The artists make it but get very little from music sales, like 1-2% or so. And then on the other end I’M the one finding it, organizing it, making good versions, using my bandwidth, etc. So what did mafiaa even do that it thinks it deserves anything? They’re worthless. They’re such lying scum. Netflix, iTunes, steam. BAM. they solved music/ movie and pc game piracy ALL WHILE FIGHTING YOU UPHILL THE WHOLE TIME. I hope your entire ‘business’ aka corrupt monopoly bribe cartel, just crashes and burns around you, I hope people spit on you on the street. I hope people spit on your children on the street, to hurt you through your children just as you attack children with lawsuits you total dirtbags. Enjoy your ivory towers while they last, because if you ever come down here with us. If your walls break down and REAL PEOPLE hold you really accountable for your evil…
    KEEP PIRATING PEOPLE, VOTE WITH YOUR WALLETS, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE ONLY THING THEY UNDERSTAND

  • Neelie fan

    Neelie ‘Voorhamer’ Kroes FTW!!

  • momoola

    @85 (lverona)

    No, it’s not an incorrect analogy. Did you read it? The entire point of that analogy is to show that if it is possible to harm someone by not giving them your money, then that means that anyone who simply does not give someone else their money or interferes with someones flow of profits is ‘stealing’ potential profit from them, pirate or no. The fact that the pirate has the product means nothing. The fact that they think that not giving someone your money damages them, however, does mean something, as everyone in existence is ‘guilty’ of doing that.

  • A41202813@GMAIL.COM

    She Is Right.

    A Lot Of People Prefer To Waste Their Money On Flea Markets Instead.

  • Ninja

    Holy wisdom, Batman! I am officially in love with her in a ideological way.

    I had to read the article twice to make sure I was reading it right and that the context (place, country etc) was what I thought it was.

    Epic.

  • Anonymous

    F U C K copyrights!

  • Pingback: Online Global Week in Review 12 November 2010 from IP Think Tank

  • lverona

    @94

    I understand what you are trying to say, I just do not agree that they say this. Their main point is that “pirates” ARE using the product. They seem to be quite okay if you don’t use it and don’t buy it. Their main irritation is that everyone gets it for free, THUS depriving them of profit – not because someone decided not to buy it in question, but because they decided to USE it without paying. This is what irritates them and this is the “losses” which they are counting, assuming that if you are downloading this music, then you want it enough to buy it if it wasn’t available. Bad reasoning obviously, but it is not as dumb as you point it out, imho.

  • momoola

    “Their main point is that “pirates” ARE using the product.”

    Which is irrelevant and does no damage to the artist by itself. Nothing was taken, and if you say that potential profit was, then refer back to my previous arguments.

    “They seem to be quite okay if you don’t use it and don’t buy it.”

    Which is what I’m saying is illogical because if it was possible to steal potential profit (which doesn’t even exist), then everyone in existence would be guilty of that.

    “Their main irritation is that everyone gets it for free, THUS depriving them of profit”

    They weren’t deprived of profit (or anything else for that matter). Their argument is that they are deprived of potential profit (which again, doesn’t even exist).

    Whether or not the pirate has the product is again irrelevant. The point that they are making, whether it is their main point or not, is that ‘stealing’ potential profit hurts someone, and that is the illogical argument that my posts are responding to.

    In reality, piracy doesn’t hurt anyone, and those who think it does must also believe that people who choose not to buy a product are damaging its creators. One last time, whether or not they have the product is irrelevant. That alone does not do any damage.

  • lverona

    @momoola

    Do not think that I am defending their logic, I just do not agree on your take on it. I believe your take to be simplistic and I do not agree that whether someone has a product or not is irrelevant – it is the point of relevance to RIAA and the like. I agree that artists are not hurt by it and I agree that potential profit is a very bad concept, but “In reality, piracy doesn’t hurt anyone, and those who think it does must also believe that people who choose not to buy a product are damaging its creators” in my opinion is incorrect and there is an inherent difference which is relevant.

    But you disagree and I think we should leave it at that. I am not having a last word here – I just explain my analysis of the situation.

  • momoola

    @100 (Iverona)

    “and I do not agree that whether someone has a product or not is irrelevant”

    Why? Again, having the product does not alone do harm. If you disagree, then you must realize that pirates merely copy data and deprive no one of the media itself. Downloading the content, again, does no harm by itself. Even adding the fact that the pirates have the media to other arguments does no good because having the media doesn’t do any harm in the first place.

    “in my opinion is incorrect and there is an inherent difference which is relevant.”

    How so? That is exactly what pirates are doing. Not giving someone money.

    When faced with an argument that the pirate isn’t actually taking the product itself and is merely copying data, those that are against piracy will usually use either a “time” or “potential profit” argument, but both are highly illogical. I don’t know what you’re talking about, but I’ve argued with enough people about this to know that there are plenty of people who use the potential profit argument and even accept the fact that the pirate having the data alone does no harm.

  • whose ripping who off?

    Good to see for once that someone knows what they are talking about but is also in a position with some power to do something useful with that knowledge.

    Another thing destryong music:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

  • whose ripping who off?

    Sorry about the double post; ‘destryong’ was supposed to be destroying

  • Anonymous

    It’s not stealing because i would have never bought it. I would have never watched it if i could not watch it for free. Because usually it is crap anyway.

    Also:

    Home cooking is killing the restaurant business!!1!1

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

NewsBits

Even more news...

  • Blu-ray Anti-Piracy Tech Stops Discs and Promotes Purchases

    An anti-piracy system present in all official Blu-ray players since 2012 has received a fresh update...

  • Foxtel Breeds Pirates by Locking Up Game of Thrones

    One of the main reasons why people turn to piracy is the lack of legal alternatives....

  • UK Student Admits Breaching Sony Copyrights With Leak of PS3 SDK

    Last year an Internet user known as El Nomeo leaked version 3.70 of Sony’s Playstation3 SDK...

  • Pirates Can Be Identified Despite Sharing IP Addresses, ISP Claims

    Carrier-Grade Network Address Translation is a network mechanism through which many Internet subscribers can share the...

  • Feds Seize Cash from Major Bitcoin Exchange’s Dwolla Account

    The U.S. Government has taken a significant action against the web’s top Bitcoin exchange by seizing...

MostDiscussed

Below are TorrentFreak's most discussed articles of the past month. Join the discussion if you like.

CopyQuote

Left Quote

“The Pirate Bay has been one of the most important movements in Sweden for freedom of speech, working against corruption and censorship.

Peter Sunde Left Quote

PopularArticles

A selection of some TorrentFreak's classics dug up from our archives.