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Finally: BitTorrent Piracy Evidence to be Tested in Court

A landmark order by a Pennsylvania District Court judge may become the turning point for the many mass-BitTorrent lawsuits that are sweeping through the United States. For the first time in these cases a copyright holder has been ordered to go to trial, instead of settling with the alleged file-sharers for a few thousand dollars. This will be the first time that BitTorrent-related evidence will be tested in a U.S. court.

Over the past two years a small group of copyright holders have started thousands of mass-BitTorrent lawsuits, targeting more than a quarter million people in the US alone.

The copyright holders who start these cases generally provide nothing more than an IP-address as evidence. They then ask the courts to grant a subpoena which allows them to request the personal details of the alleged offenders from their Internet providers.

The plaintiffs in these cases, often described as copyright trolls, are mostly adult movie studios. Malibu Media is one of the most active studios, and this year alone they have filed 349 mass lawsuits, targeting thousands of alleged downloaders across the U.S.

This strategy has earned the adult studio millions of dollars in settlements, without going to trial once. However, this is going to change soon thanks to Pennsylvania District Court Judge Michael Baylson who delivered a landmark ruling late last week.

In a memorandum covering three mass-lawsuits, the Judge reviewed the motions of five anonymous defendants who protested the subpoena which ordered their Internet providers to reveal their identities. Judge Baylson summarizes one of the Doe defendant’s motions as follows.

“Among other things, the declaration asserts that Plaintiff has brought suit against numerous unnamed defendants simply to extort settlements, that the BitTorrent software does not work in the manner Plaintiff alleges, and that a mere subscriber to an ISP is not necessarily a copyright infringer, with explanations as to how computer-based technology would allow non-subscribers to access a particular IP address,” Baylson writes.

“In other words, according to the declaration, there is no reason to assume an ISP subscriber is the same person who may be using BitTorrent to download the alleged copyrighted material. Similar assertions are made in memoranda filed in support of the other motions.”

However, the Judge also notes that the copyright holder’s rights can’t be ignored. Both the plaintiffs and the defendants present their own version of the truth and Judge Baylson believes that a trial is needed to decide who’s right.

“The Court cannot decide substantive issues on these conflicting documents. Discovery and, ultimately, a trial are necessary to find the truth,” he writes.

For this reason Baylson has ordered a Bellwether trial, which often take place when many plaintiffs file proceedings under the same theory swamping courts with an enormous caseload. The five defendants who filed a motion will now go to trial, and the verdicts will be used to rule on similar proceedings in the future.

The Judge notes that the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. He also calls for a speedy trial to resolve the matter in a few months.

“In this case, the Court will require that the pleadings be completed promptly and will enter an order which provides for discovery to start without delay and be completed expeditiously so the case can proceed to final disposition on the merits, within six months,” Baylson writes.

The Bellwether trial will be the first time that actual evidence against alleged BitTorrent infringers is tested in court. This is relevant because the main piece of evidence the copyright holders have is an IP-address, which by itself doesn’t identify a person but merely a connection.

In a past RIAA court case experts described the evidence gathering techniques of other file-sharing services “as factually erroneous”, “unprofessional” and “borderline incompetent.” In addition, academics have shown that due to shoddy technique even a network printer can be accused of sharing copyrighted files on BitTorrent.

Sophisticated Jane Doe, a critic of the copyright troll cases, is optimistic that the defendants will emerge as winners of the trial.

“The beauty of a Bellwether trial design is both in its pace and in its binding power: finally, trolls’ evidence (or lack thereof) will be tested. You won’t be surprised to learn that I really doubt that trolls will present enough evidence to declare victory; that’s why I’m excited and full of expectations,” she writes.

Considering what’s at stake, it would be no surprise if parties such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) are willing to join in. They are known to get involved in crucial copyright troll cases, siding with the defendants. We asked the group for a comment, but have yet to receive a response.

On the other side, Malibu Media may get help from other copyright holders who are engaged in mass-BitTorrent lawsuits. A ruling against the copyright holder may severely obstruct the thus far lucrative settlement business model, meaning that millions of dollars are at stake for these companies.

Without a doubt, the trial is expected to set an important precedent for the future of mass-BitTorrent lawsuits in the U.S. One to watch for sure.

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  • Arb1

    Yea this will be a major hit to these trolls when they lose this case.

    • Fantastic

      Also could sink the six strikes program since its base infrastructure ties into this. Course that would also mean that the government could lean on this guy to rule in a way that favors them.

      • Who

        ” Course that would also mean that the government could lean on this guy to rule in a way that favors them. ”
        Yep that will definitely happen, if they copyright holders lose they wont donate(Buy/Bribe) large sums of money to Obamas re-election campaign..
        Which his week was reported to be as high as $171 million dollars, thats $171 million dollars more than I would want my government to spend advertising their bullshit policies. Governments are scared of upsetting the wealthy elite and bend over backwards to keep them happy.

        PS= Does anyone actually know why theres troops in Afghanistan anymore?? Is it to stop them flying over here on their magic carpets and bombing us? or is it just to give the military consistant warfare practise- Just asking.

        • That_Anonymous_Coward

          You obviously overestimate how much 2nd rate porn producers “donate” to political campaigns.

        • FrostyC

          Unless they rule that imaginary property is not real property, this is all meaningless. If I eat chipolte non-stop, but it causes me to bleed out of my anus, do I just buy new underwear or stop eating chipolte?

          The point is copyright is broken and outdated. It goes against our way of life, which is to share information in an attempt to protect and advance the whole of us. Copyright is an exploitation that allows people to charge money to facilitate this process. It is unsustainable. Over two thousand years ago, Archimedes “created” the concept of Pi. Could you imagine paying money to know the value of Pi today? It’s laughable. It’s the same thing.

        • Guest

          @FrostyC “Unless they rule that imaginary property is not real property”

          The NZ crown in the Megaupload case argued that copying of data is not theft and therefore the data wasn’t theft when it was transferred back to the US when it was accused that the FBI had taken the data out of NZ. The judge stated that taking and transferring the data of the country was illegal. If Imaginary property is not real property then I doubt that Mr Goodwin and everyone else who had data on Megaupload would be able to claim their property back as it is not real property. I think it was argued in Mr Goodwin’s defence that the data on the server was his property. We shall see what happens in the forthcoming court case if Mr Goodwin gets his property back and I hope he and everyone else does get there property back. If IP is ruled as not being property then Mr Goodwin will loose as he will not be able to get his property back and so the copyright trolls as they can’t sue for loss of property, if IP is ruled as property then Mr Goodwin will no doubt get his property back but it also adds to the copyright favour as they will be able to sue for loss of property.

        • Lol

          Its to keep the supply of opium and mari9jua_na going. Ever since the US took over Afghanistan meaning entered their country, production has went up every year consistently. They then distribute it to others then arrest people for it when the source is themselves. Do some research online and you will see pictures of the americans growing, shipping, protecting their loot.

        • http://twitter.com/RusellMark1 RusellMark

          Gerald explained I’m dazzled that anybody able to profit $7952 in one month on the network. did you look this(Click on menu Home)

        • http://twitter.com/RusellMark1 RusellMark

          ….goo.gl/WJOSG

        • http://twitter.com/DianaDawson15 Diana Dawson

          But if events turn that way, it will be equally devastating to trolls’ MO, exposing them as a mockers of justice.Love my job, since I’ve been bringing in $82h… I sit at home, music playing while I work in front of my new iMac that I got now that I’m making it online… ..NDOQESB.TK

        • Sketch

          its so they cant come here and drop a nuke from the back of a donkey cart……

        • ScrewEwe2

          Because we have military assets there already and we won’t have to spend a lot of money and time building up for the invasion of Afghanistan’s neighbor Iran. As everyone knows, Iran is trying to produce weapons of mass electricity. Imagine the power they would wield over that part of the world if they are allowed to produce electricity. They could create a world wide shortage of HDTV’s if they are allowed to produce electricity.

          Or, we are still in Afghanistan because we have a practice of “If you break it, you have to fix it”. I think we broke Afghanistan, so now we’re going broke spending 6 billion $ a week fixing the lovely vacation destination of Afghanistan. We borrow money from China so we can build them new schools and roads, while our schools and roads are falling apart.

        • Ron Jeremy [The Hairy Asshole]

          Quote: “The plaintiffs in these cases, often described as copyright trolls, are mostly adult movie studios. Malibu Media is one of the most active studios, and this year alone they have filed 349 mass lawsuits, targeting thousands of alleged downloaders across the U.S.”

          It’s high time those shameless bastardized porn studios were brought to book in a court of law for crimes against vulnerable and naïve young women.

          I wait with bated breath when the sitting Judge in such a case gapes these porn studios so fucking wide, that all these studios’ assholes bleed to death.

          They’re a morally corrupt stain on the conscience of humanity, and the sooner they are destroyed and brought to book, the World will be one less evil better off.

        • What do WE do ?

          “” the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. “”

          “” the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. “”

          “” the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. “”

          “” the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. “”

          “” the five defendants can enter into a joint defense agreement, and ask for other interested parties to join them. “”

        • Fuckoff

          you are dumb

      • Prh_99

        I doubt it, even if the six strike plan was brokered in part by the White House, it remains an agreement between ISP and certain content creators, it’s power is contractual not judicial.

        • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

          Actually, I suspect that when Public entities (like monopoly telecoms) Publish a regime of Known rules to manage their public behavior; and, the behavior of their customers or employees in their normal course of business, it comes under administrative law. This is law. It carries with it a range of Civil law constraints: Disputes and infractions are addressed within a graduated system of investigations and reviews under which the accused have opportunity to present their case. The Administration must act within the limits of its charter and conduct
          itself in a manner that is neither arbitrary, capricious, or unjust. Arbitration panels make final Administrative determinations in cases that can not be settled; and, those final determinations can normally be appealed directly within appellate terms. Of course, these attributes do not apply in all jurisdictions.

          The relationship between the six ISPs, in their agreement to impose the same TOSs on their combined population of Customers, is a direct civil law contract separate and apart from the imposed TOSs themselves.

          This is the weakness: These Six ISPs control between them 75% of the American telecommunications market. They are regulated Monopolies. Question: Are the six Contracts by which these regulated Corporations agreed to impose combined TOSs on all their Customers evidence of monopolistic collusion against their Customers? Can TOSs imposed collectively in such a manner be said NOT to be Arbitrary, Capricious, or Unjust? Can the contracted conduct of these ISPs in producing these combined TOSs be said to be within the limits of their public charters?

          Most importantly, can it be said that Customers have received due notice and have given informed consent to Combined TOSs imposed collectively by the six ISP in contracts for which they had no notice or opportunity to decline?

          All this to explain that Six Strikes is a fragile and obtuse violation of common sense and law. We should have NO MERCY attacking it and suing the pants off the dimly lit thugs who have sought to impose it.

      • LinuxCoder

        That judge knows a lot of people are watching. He can’t afford to allow himself to be influenced by ANYONE or he’ll lose his seat on the bench (a huge disgrace here). Not being re-elected is the least of his worries if he’s seen to be influenced in any way. His assets will be monitored closely and he won’t even know by whom. Influencing judiciary may still be possible in some of the southern states but not likely in Pennsylvania. They don’t play in PA — if you’re even suspected of bowing down to “special interests” (yes, even the gov’t) you are out on your a$$.

        • nostrafarious

          LOL! Bullshit. You’re trying to say that corruption of the court doesn’t exist in Pennsylvania? Oh, please gimme a break.

    • Guest

      Don’t hold your breath. There is no justice anymore. Justice has been stolen by the corporations.

      If you ask me it is faster and shipper to simply kill all these copyright trolls and their servants before our freedom is completely gone.

    • Itscorrupt

      since an ip does not identify a person, why are the not letting all those that got arrested for downloading cp and sharing it out of jail and awarding them $? The fbi likes to share cp along with alot of other places like police departments so why is it ok for them to share it and then arrest others for checking it out when ip does not = person?

      • Anyone

        they generally have stronger evidence than just an IP address in those cases

        • Freedom of Speech

          They do a search warrant and confiscate all the computers, and most people are too dumb to use Truecrypt to encrypt their files, so they get convicted. But there was a case earlier this year in the 11th Circuit in which the defendant did use Truecrypt. The FBI admitted they couldn’t crack Truecrypt’s powerful encryption, so they were trying to make the defendant give up the password. But the 11th Circuit ruled that the defendant had the 5th Amendment right to refuse to talk, and therefore nothing on the defendant’s hard drives could be used against him. As far as I know, that killed the case against him. The defendant was listed as a John Doe in the court papers, which protects his or her privacy but also makes it hard to find any more information on the case. If anyone wants to read the 11th Circuit ruling, go to EFF.org and do a search for TrueCrypt and click on the first result…

        • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

          True, but the point is that EVEN FOR A SEARCH WARRANT, they should have something stronger than an IP address. I was accused of downloading actual CP at one time like 8 years ago.

          I told the police officer “Okay, what do you have besides an IP address?” He said “Nothing!” I said “Goodbye, Officer, and good luck.”

          Seriously, even in a CP case an IP address should not be enough to get a search warrant, especially when there are such things as wireless networks and easily hacked wireless connections.

          Thankfully, courts are waking up to that fact. That said, if you DO download anything illegal….. store it all on an external hard drive that you can hide somewhere.

      • Scary Devil Monastery

        Because in the case of serious felonies, the police finding an ip range simply means that they take said person under more intense surveillance and amass evidence.

        However, before taking the measures to violate a citizen’s personal integrity they first involve a prosecutor and a judge.

        Hence most people convicted of peddling child pornography don’t get nailed just because of an ip number. That “Child Pornography” in some countries today can actually mean a racy picture taken of a 17 year old boy by his 18 year old girlfriend is another matter. Or for that matter, a drawing of the same.

  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ SJD

    Thanks, Ernesto. In theory, trolls may chicken out and dismiss the case or otherwise settle with defendants (the other way around, paying them). But if events turn that way, it will be equally devastating to trolls’ MO, exposing them as a mockers of justice. Win-win.

    • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

      Yup great point, and I also agree with the quote from you in the article. There appears to be very little room for the CopyWrong holders to sneak a win.

      I’d lay money on Pennsylvania District Court Judge Michael Baylson ruling 90% to 100% in favour of the defendants. My only concern is his statement that the so-called ‘rights’ of these snivelling CopyWrong holders must also be taken fully into consideration.

      But we live in hope meanwhile, and I’m happy as it stands.

      • Glib

        He has to say that, because that’s what the point of a case is. If he was 100% on the side of the lion’s share of the planet, this case would be done before it was started. It’s his job to look at both sides, and rule in a fair way. Everyone with half a brain knows what the fair way is, but that doesn’t mean he should ignore their empty lies.

        The fact he wants a Bellweather trial seems to indicate he know what is going on, I would imagine he’s fully aware of the raping of the legal system that he will now have a chance to heavily curb their power. The fact he wants to do it fast, IMO, tells me he is well aware of the years of appeals that could go on … setting his sights on finishing the trial fast tells me he’s willing to burn through the appeals processes too to solidify a verdict that can be used now, not in 5 years.

  • Master

    It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

  • flubalubaful

    Can the trolls not back out of this trial as they have done in the past…

    If not then I expect the entertainment industry to take this to the supreme court when they lose , and as the EFF joins the defendant the “INDUSTRY” will most definitely join the Trolls. I wonder what they will think of being known to support the porn industry, but they have to, otherwise there full defence in future cases will be destroyed, unless they are going to admit that an IP address is not a good enough proof of who infringed. LOL popcorn and Coke for me , this could get interesting.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ SJD

      Unfortunately I have to agree. As you remember, RIAA filed a brief in support of Righthaven in the past. There is nothing sacred for these guys.

    • Glib

      If they back out, they lose; simple as that. They REALLY can’t afford to default on this one, as the precedent that’d have been set will be very far reaching and extremely powerful.

    • Lol

      If anyone supports the porn companies for copywrong, they should be tried for fraud. If you look up the definition of copywright, its supposted to be for meanful stuff and last I have heard, porn is not copywrongable even though their buddies send tons of c&d letters, get websites to remove links, files, etc. Its fraud because porn is not copywritable

  • gingernutgotloose

    shouldn’t have downloaded chubby chaser, after all, it’s only £35.00 in the local private shop.why was porn so expensive in the first place? just an observation that’s all

    • Lol

      your going to the wrong store, look for the stores that say 3 for $20 :-)

  • TengFow

    Should be interesting to see how that all works out.
    EasyAnon.tk

  • Guest

    I’m going to pre-empt the trolls that plague the site and claim that assuming guilt before innocence and other infractions against legal protocol are acceptable.

    You mad, Anon?

    • That_Anonymous_Coward

      Nope not mad at all, I’m pretty excited by this case and hoping it sinks the trolls.

      • Guest

        Not you, TAC; I meant the Anon that belongs to some super-secret society bent on laughing at grandmothers getting sued.

        • That_Anonymous_Coward

          Oh you mean John Steele.

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  • SS-Untersturmführer

    when the americans have no other country to start a new profitable war with they try to fuck their own people duh

  • No1_2_u

    “The plaintiffs in these cases, often described as copyright trolls, are mostly adult movie studios. Malibu Media is one of the most active studios, and this year alone they have filed 349 mass lawsuits, targeting thousands of alleged downloaders across the U.S.”

    Here’s hoping they take it hard & dry in the ass; just ilke their “actors”!

    (pun intended)

  • Zzzzzz

    I still find it shocking that it has taken so long for a judge to order the testing of the evidence against accused pirates.

    • MadAsASnake

      It’s a complete abuse of the judicial process. The reason it persists is that a lot of people (predictably) cave in to it. The thing I find shocking is that there have not been any criminal investigations yet. Extortion / Demanding money with menaces is a criminal offence.

      • Zzzzzz

        Yeah, good point as it does seem to be extortion, at least as I understand it anyway.

    • Scary Devil Monastery

      Not that strange. The pro-copyright trolls have been frantically trying to prevent such cases from ever going to court. Which is why mass-mail extortion has always been in the form “Pay up or risk going to court”.

      And if people refuse to admit and refuse to pay, they haven’t even tried taking their case to court. Mass extortion attempts have been successful simply because there’s always someone who gets intimidated and pays up, even if they’re innocent.

      • That_Anonymous_Coward

        Recently they have begun named lawsuits to try and shake people up even more. The damage 1 persons reputation, if it goes poorly they withdraw but they can frighten more people by pointing out how your name will be attached to nasty porn titles if you don’t just pay them.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Indeed. If you can massmail ten thousand and get ten to pay you turn a profit. That scam is older than P.T. Barnum.

  • Guest

    I expect MPAA/RIAA and rest of Hollywood to heavily way in here and back the side of the copyright troll if this/should go to a court trial. Expect more bs from them as they provide made up extortionate exagerated loss figures etc. and that they deem that it is absolutely necessary to give the IP address holders the choice of paying up a small amount in order to avoid court action or face court action with the cost of thousands to pay. If however the copyright troll and Hollywood do not have the evidence to win then probably they will pull out of further action of this case and therefore they will still be able continue with trolling etc. as they haven’t lost until such a time a judge thinks it is necessary for another court trial etc. One way or the other this case is getting interesting.

  • The_Strawbear

    One of the most interesting things here to me is that this wasn’t clarified before the 6 strikes system was introduced. Surely if it’s found that an IP address can either be incorrectly taken, spoofed or ridden this ruling will make the 6 strikes system utterly impossible to continue with.

    Also it will be interesting to see the international ramification of the ruling. If freedom gains a victory in the US, will it encourage rights groups in other countries to push for similar rulings in places such as the UK or Australia?

    If it’s found to be legally impossible to link a person to an IP address, where does this leave MAAFIA’s whole strategy? Presumably they will refocus on the sites, services and servers engaged in the distribution of materials.

    Should the courts rule in favour of the defendants, it’s possible to see a future push by media industries to have the ISPs regulate their traffic in a much stricter manner, a push which results in every resident of a property connected to an ISP having to have their own sign-in before they can get online. The end result of this case might, ironically, lead to less freedoms in the long term.

    Interesting times indeed.

    • MadAsASnake

      It’s factually impossible to link IP (in isolation) to a person – it would be a travesty if a court of law were to find anything different. 6 strikes is pretty untenable anyway.

    • Glib

      “If it’s found to be legally impossible to link a person to an IP address, where does this leave MAAFIA’s whole strategy?”

      It screws them … that is, until an IP address CAN be linked to a device. IPv6 could do this … easily. Get laws to force consumer accounts to run on IPv6 only, where you have to register your device with your ISP; at that point, they’d know if you were downloading with your iPhone, or tablet, or TV … easily. One of the hotels I manage does this, basically, to bill users on a device basis. We do it using internal IPv4, but I can tell you the exact device that is accessing anything in the outside world … obviously, excluding those connected via VPN.

      • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

        Actually, no, it cannot. It would only point at the ROUTER, not at the specific device or person BEHIND the router. Someone doesn’t know how these things work in the real world.

        • Anyone

          it can with IPv6, because that no longer uses NAT

    • Masau Fuku

      “One of the most interesting things here to me is that this wasn’t clarified before the 6 strikes system was introduced.”

      Well…the matter of the 6-strike policy wasn’t a legal one, but a matter between private businesses. And many of the large ISPs in the US have their hands in the entertainment industry (as cable providers, content producers or both) as well, so it doesn’t come as much of a surprise that they didn’t test the assumption of guilt before hand.

      “Surely if it’s found that an IP address can either be incorrectly taken, spoofed or ridden this ruling will make the 6 strikes system utterly impossible to continue with.”

      We can only hope. Luckily the policy is brand new so a ruling in the defendants favor could make ISPs and the MPAA back off before it’s had any real effect. Or some of the early targets of the policy will take the ISP to court over it and force the issue. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out to be sure.

    • ScrewEwe2

      The 6 strikes system only applies to those customers of ISP’s that are taking part in the 6 strikes system, excluding the customers of ISP’s that aren’t taking part, leaving them open to whatever extortion schemes the MAFIAA wants to employ. Hopefully the judiciary will see these extortion schemes for what they are, illegal and truly extortion. At the very least, I hope they find that we have a right to defend ourselves in a court of law and being extorted in this manner is unconstitutional. extort: Obtain by coercion or intimidation.

      My ISP isn’t taking part in the 6 strikes system as far as I know and when I talked to tech support twice over the last few months they had never heard of the six strikes system. That fact that my ISP isn’t taking part could be a good thing, or a very bad thing. The ball is in the torrent program developers court to solve the problem of hiding any identifying information of the users of the torrenting programs. I don’t see why they can’t encrypt the users IP’s from prying eyes. Having said that, there will probably always be way’s for someone to figure out how to write code to find the identifying information. Worst outcome would be if the governments start outlawing the use of torrenting programs and the BitTorrent protocol itself, whether they’re being used for legal or illegal usage. Aren’t some countries trying to move in the direction of outlawing the use of encryption and VPN’s by private citizens? Will we westerners someday be subjected to the same sorts of restrictions put on the citizens of Iran, China and North Korea? They can pass all the damn laws they want, and most of us will proudly fly the flag of the kingdom of the middle finger. Any time they have tried to put up a wall to stop us, we figure out way’s to go over, under or around their blockades to get our pirate booty.

      Another note on government restrictions. A few weeks ago I was talking to a Palestinian American guy about the YouTube video dissing Mohammed that set off all the riots and demonstrations in the middle east and elsewhere. He thinks that the US government should pass laws to make it illegal for anyone to say anything defamatory about the (LOL) prophet Mohammed or Islam. This guy grew up in Palestine until his teens, but got his American citizenship at some point along the way. He just doesn’t get the whole concept of freedom of speech, because that is something that middle easterners have never truly had. In some hardcore Islamic countries it is close to illegal to not be a Muslim or to be an atheist. He is under the impression that you can be sent to prison for saying anything bad about Jews or Isreal, and I told him he was wrong, but he insisted that a friend of his was sent to jail for bad mouthing Jews. His friend had to be doing more than expressing his First Amendment rights to free speech. I told him that publically slandering someone can be illegal in many cases and saying “Fire” in an auditorium is illegal if there isn’t a fire and people get hurt trying to exit the auditorium, but beyond that, we are free to say whatever in the hell we want, but with freedom comes. responsibility. I’m sure someone that’s criminally insane or who has Tourettes Syndrome could beat the rap.

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  • ken147

    I hope their “evidence” gets thrown out and the judge laughs in their face.

  • JordanKratz

    Hopefully the Defendants will Win on this Case and I do have high optimistic feelings that even if we see a bunch of MAFIAA throw support to the other side for the Defendants there will be plenty who Support them.This will have the EFF and probably ACLU, ETC help the Defendants.
    Defendants should easily win as you can never prove without a shadow of doubt that Defendant really did the Downloading.No Witness, only an IP, no other physical evidence, ETC.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      First risk: They perfect technology enough to meet required standards of proof. Cases go to court every day where evidence is less than perfect. What’s required is that it meets standards of provenance, reasonableness, relevance, and validity. Current technology craps out for rights holders; but, you can bet they’re working on “the next BIG thing”. Six Strikes obligates the ISPs to produce the required evidence precisely because it is a public proffer to Copyright holders by the ISPs: that, in return for a full formal stake in all Copyright protected distribution business, they WILL control their customers. Since providing the required evidence goes with their territory, look for the “next BIG technological miracle” to emerge within the ISPs infrastructure. The evidenciary standard is NOT perfection.

      Second risk: The TOSs: and, perhaps, actual civil and/or criminal law, are successfully changed to presumptively hold the signed account holder responsible for misuse of the service; and, to outlaw VPNs (perhaos in residential settings). Such change in law is unlikely, especially where criminal sanctions are involved; but, after all, these are the people who produced PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA, TPP and Six Strikes. Were not these laws credible efforts to achieve precisely these goals?

      Third risk: I believe the worst risk. People stop caring. They get tired and stop fighting. The strongest and the smartest P2P Filesharers would head for the darknet: which would leave Copyright Distributors and ISPs in control of the Public Mass Distribution Channels (Mass Distribution is, after all, what they’re fighting for). Who would be in control of the Political discussion then? What would stop those in the darknet from being severely criminalized? What would stop regular citizens from being even more effectively repressed?

      It might take ten or twenty years: but, those outcomes would lead directly to the new and improved PIPA, SOPA, ACTA, CISPA, TPP, and Six Strikes. Copyright Distributors would have all the time in the world.

      By that time, the Modern Internet would be a one world desktop where we could all BUY BUY BUY at obscene Monopoly prices.

      • ethicalfan

        Third risk – People actually learn that distributing someone else’s copyrighted works without their permission is against US Federal Law. Why? Because it destroys peoples jobs. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says that musicians’ wages in the US are down 45% since p2p technology arrived. That is from tax returns. It is proof positive that p2p hurts real people. That is why it is illegal.

        • Conservative

          I am a musician and I must admit that my earnings have gone up since the advent of p2p technology. My earnings went up, not down.

          Apparently the US Bureau of Labor Statistics lied to you. Sorry about that, mate.

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  • Guest

    I have this feeling that the judge is going to rule with the side of the copyright troll giving some bullcrap reason that an IP address equals a person because he hasn’t got the balls to stand up to a big business and the MAFFIA. Its a good job that this is not brought before that female judge who once worked for the MAFFIA who according to an earlier article on this site would welcome cases from the MAFFIA with open arms.

  • http://twitter.com/Anime4PSP Anime 4 PSP

    I hope lot of ppl in who were accused of file sharing will join in and teach bitching copyright trolls a lesson

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  • http://www.facebook.com/vcariello Vincent Cariello

    If this case is lost, torrent will die forever. This is actually pretty scary.

    • Anyone

      not really
      it will just open the floodgates to more extortion letters

      • Guest

        Yeah which will mean that every IP address listed in a swarm will be sent a pay up 500 dollars or be taken to court where you will be named and shamed in the paper for everyone to see that you downloaded porn and forced to pay 150,000 dollars or more letter. A lot more innocent people will be blackmailed by these extortionist racketeering copyright trolls

  • Freedom of Speech

    This judge, Baylson, is a career prosecutor, a Republican appointee, and a major league asshole. He fucked over the EFF, Free Speech Coalition, etc. in the case Free Speech Coalition v. Holder. On appeal, the 3rd Circuit overturned his ruling (kicking EFF, FSC, etc. out of court without even giving them a trial) and bitch-slapped him for acting like a kangaroo court. DO NOT EXPECT JUSTICE FROM THIS MAN. His courtroom will be a MAFIAA paradise. I hope the defendants have plenty of money set aside for appeals, because they are certainly going to need it!!!

    • Guest

      So expect the verdict to rule in favour of the copyright trolls giving major BS with regards that an IP address = person even if it is an open wi-fi. This verdict will no doubt be appealed and appealed all the way up the highest appeal court.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      Maybe the Third Circuit reversal has made him reconsider his position?

      Do you happen to know the decision history of the Third Circuit Judges? I don’t know ; and, it sure would be interesting. Great lead for research. Appreciate your post very much…..

    • That_Anonymous_Coward

      Note these cases have not a damn thing to do with the **AA’s.
      These are porn producers who have committed fraud repeatedly trying to get these cases into court.
      There now have been enough innocent faces on TV that the public is giving a damn.

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  • ethicalfan

    If copyright violators don’t think copyright infringement on BitTorrent can be proven in court, why does this site advertise services to hide from enforcement? Even if this porn company had bad data, copyright infringement on BitTorrent can absolutely be proven in court. A BitTorrent client sends pieces of 64k to 4MB in size to another BitTorrent client. In the US, when that piece contains part of a song or movie that the person using the BitTorrent client does not own and control, that person is violating US Federal law (17 USC 106). Under US Federal law, the copyright owner has the exclusive right to determine who may distribute their copyrighted work. The copyright owner may sue the person who owns and controls the BitTorrent client for that act of distribution for up to $150,000 per act of distribution. All the copyright owner has to do to obtain evidence is to capture all of the packets that were used in the communication with the peer who distributed the piece. The copyright owner can then subpoena the ISP. The ISP absolutely can reliably determine who had the DHCP lease at a specific timestamp. That is called a router log. Google “Cisco Router Log.” The account holder will then have to lie under oath in court to prevent a conviction. Someone must be doing this otherwise 30% of all Asian, European and 15% of US internet traffic (Sandvine 2012) wouldn’t be used for illegal “filesharing” on p2p networks.

    • Violated0

      It has already been proved in Court that an IP address is not person so even if your ISP hands over your subscriber details they cannot prove which member of your home, visiting friends, or even skilled hacker actually did the offence in question.

      Beyond having your WIFI link hacked then I have seen myself how hackers can drop little 5k proxy tasks on the target computers. The hackers can then use these proxy tasks, that most AV systems ignore, to bounce data off of that Internet link. You can guess why hackers use these proxies but other people also scan for open proxy ports so they can bounce BT data and more off that connection. So the target computer can bounce hundreds of movies and songs without the local HDDs seeing one bit of this media.

      This site and the people here promote ways to protect themselves because the whole system is under attack, Copyright protection organizations and even the US Government are just not very good at following the law. I would present the Mega case as but one example of a DMCA following corporation who have been almost destroyed by multiple provable unlawful acts.

      This is open warfare and people will take to the trenches and do covert operations instead of standing up waiting to be shot by the big guns they wield.

      You should keep in mind that the Copyright Cartels have spent decades twisting and warping the law to their gain into results that are now insane and cruel and unusual. We would love to see this fight on this political arena but that is far from easy when we get no voice in proposed laws like TPP(A).

      Most importantly there are millions of us who are very concerned with what is going on and our combined voice does boom loudly and this is not something that they can ignore for long.

    • Guest

      IP addresses change, which is why IP tracking fails hard when it comes to catching pirates.

      The IP address I use to download a movie one week might belong to you next week.

      • ethicalfan

        I don’t know whether you don’t know what you are talking about or just trying to encourage people to get into trouble. http://bit.ly/VWoMPE A DHCP server can be configured to keep a log of exactly what subscriber used an IP address at a specific time stamp. “It is intended for use by agents in relaying DHCP responses back to the proper circuit.” When the IP rotates, the log will still have the subscriber’s circuit-id at the time of the infringement.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          The only thing that tells a sysadmin like me is that a specific router transmitted said information. End of story.

          It doesn’t tell me which one of the 50-odd people within range who had access to said router, nor whether any computer using that router originated the commands or had those commands originated by remote script.

          If I were to guesstimate how many people had had their computers be part of a botnet at any time within the last five years I would have to say “80%”. That renders “IP-tracking” nearly completely useless.

          If the police are tracking down an ip number belonging to a suspected active pedophile they will follow up with direct surveillance and a house search which will turn up solid proof. This is neither possible nor desirable when you might have to – in the case of a scrape of tracker ip adresses – perform a house search on a hundred thousand households.

          Especially if it means that a thousand citizens have their lives disrupted for every thousand suspects you could actually hold. The resource cost alone to law enforcement would exceed the annual budget for a major war – in weeks.

          And an ip adress in itself is NOT proof. At most, it’s second-hand hearsay which MUST be backed by solid evidence before it could be used to prove anything.

          This, and the resource issue, is why an ip adress is completely useless in court and should not in itself be permissible evidence of anything whatsoever.

    • ThumbsUpThumbsDown

      It’s possible that one day (if the good lord’s willing and the creak don’t rise) you “might” have the kind and quality of evidence that would allow you to to accuse “THAT” person who you faithfully believe is illegally downloading copyrighted material: and, perhaps even convict that person in open court in a fair proceeding upheld by the Supreme Court.

      Don’t hold your breath! Why? The people you want to prosecute are not stupid; they’re just momentarily distracted. You’ll get them nice and focused on what’s below.

      At this moment, however, what you’re supporting is a very angry and very damaging criminal accusation against a person or persons that you know absolutely NOTHING about.

      What you know is that there is a piece of property (a terminal); some infinitely fast moving electrons that went from point A to point B; that you don’t like the path that those electrons took; and, that someone; some person or persons, must be responsible (you believe, the terminal owner) for the “criminal” path that those electrons took. You have absolutely no knowledge about the relationship of any specific person to either the terminal; or the infringing electrons. Other that formal account ownership, there are NO FACTS you can attest to that would link a specific person to any crime.

      Your first problem is your smallest one: You can not yet indict property for the commission of a crime in America. You still have a way to go on that. Today, you still have to credibly link a specific person to the actual commission of a specific crime before you prosecute them. You don’t have to know everything, but you have to know enough to affirm THAT is the PERSON (not the property) linked to THIS crime.

      Your second is still small; lethal, but small. You see, your logic will see Copyright holders suing, not one or two thousand; or one or two hundred thousand; but, millions, tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of people. People who still have Constitutional Rights. People who will sue for, and receive, triple damages. They’ll know exactly who to sue; and why. This matters because, guess what? Those companies are not legally immune from liability; and, no company has a big enough balance sheet; perhaps no national economy has a big enough balance sheet, to absorb those losses.

      Your third problem is the killer!! Yep! It’s Jeffrey Daghmer, BTK; and, Hannibal Lecter rolled into one. You see, triple damages mass liability is just about individual Companies committing Corporate suicide. It’s an only an Economic thing. Your worst problem by far will turn out to be Political. You see, the Intellectual and Moral basis of Perpetual Copyright is a living human disgrace that can not bear scrutiny in the light of day. Corporate Extinction of the Public Domain was the single most massive theft ever inflicted on the human race by a brutal and misguided elite. Corporate custody of Intellectual property was a treacherous betrayal of the human spirit by whatever legislature enacted it. This thing that you validate on the basis of its legality is, like slavery or legally institutionalized genocide……a LEGAL disgrace that should be disobeyed.

      Most Citizens don’t understand that yet. You will force them to learn. For that I thank you.

    • That_Anonymous_Coward

      You left off that many of these films only qualify for at best actual damages not the 150K.
      You left off that the tech to gather IP addresses is flawed.
      You left off the “experts” have a financial stake in getting more settlements.
      You left off films without copyright having copyright cases filed.
      You left off films getting “new” copyrights by lying to the copyright office.
      You left off sham transfers of rights to sue.
      You left off lies on copyright applications.
      You left off wifi can be hacked.
      You left off your not responsible for what others do with your connection without your knowledge.
      You left off your a douchebag.
      You left off they have sued people without computers, the dead, the blind, the computer inept.
      You left off your defending porn producers.
      You left off the trolls have threatened to ask around your neighborhood if they downloaded scandalous porn title on the Does connection.

      This is extortion with a law degree.

      • ethicalfan

        The tech to gather IP addresses is not flawed no matter how much you may want to believe that. If BitTorrent peers can communicate with one another, the traffic can be monitored accurately. The oft cited case of the printer IP address that got a DMCA notice was due to the fact that in the early days of enforcement, the notices were sent to IPs listed by the trackers which could have been spoofed or there was an error in looking up the router logs. The data collection company for Malibu Movies obtained a piece of the torrent. If they used a TCP/IP transfer to obtain the piece, that IP address cannot be spoofed and when the ISP looks that IP address up that data is 100% reliable. If the source IP address belongs to an overseas VPN, it wont be used in a US lawsuit.

        • Guest

          Copyright trolls, i.e. lawyers who have brought these cases to court, have already admitted that their current technology carries a roughly 30% error rate.

          So, no. Your first point is flat out wrong, and that you think this sort of error is not only acceptable, but commendable, marks you as anything but ethical.

        • That_Anonymous_Coward

          You seem to know so much about what firm is tracking for Malibu and how its being done. Care to share?
          There is also the possibility they just put the file up themselves and recorded every IP that connected.

          Oh and they redid the printer case, and got the same result again against the “new” tech.

        • Anonymoose

          You’re right it’s not flawed for that reason, it’s flawed for an entirely different reason.

          IP address != Individual

          99% of residential connections are behind routers which run Network Address Translation (NAT), this provides the subscriber to the internet with 1 IP address which all the devices behind the router connect with.

          When you see an IP address in the bit torrent swarm all you can say is that the router that IP address belongs to is routing the copyrighted data to a device behind it, you cannot say which device is sending the data and furthermore you cannot infer which individual is using that device.

          This makes 2 FUNDAMENTALLY flawed assumptions.

          1) The address of the devices are static and cannot be changed.
          2) An individual can be tied to a specific address.

          Neither of these things are true, the IP address and lower level MAC address of a piece of hardware can both be changed and/or spoofed, this means that real pirates can mask their “identity” and more importantly malicious attackers can pretend to be someone else by mimicking their MAC/IP address.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Again, wrong. the ip adress leads to one specific router. Each such router, if it has wifi capability, can be used by anyone within 50 meters. To say nothing of houseguests and/or script-run computers.

          To use ip adresses as “evidence” is like asking a professional hooker to identify which John she got the claps from with nothing more than her personal guess as evidence.

          Now, if you feel you must quibble, at least try to be factual about it.

      • chronoss chiron

        porn producers , i have abetter set a terms…..PIMPS that hire hookers to screw in front of a camera …..

      • Gulliver Foyle

        Or you can fight back by getting the cops involved. Tell them you’re convinced there are under-age females on their site.

  • Reader

    So… could the accused bring in a computer and projection equipment to prove infront of the entire court that using something as simple as a VPN to connect to another country, that the IP that these trolls are using as NOT valid evidence?

    Afterall, how can someone that is clearly using a computer in the court room but is using an IP assigned to say, Sweden, possibly be the owner of the IP listed in the court filings?

  • ofProto

    So it’s finally upon us. This is a turning point my friends.

  • Andrew Lee

    There is a lot to consider when accusing someone of copyright infringement via their internet connection.

    How many people live there?
    Is your connection open? “Mine is for the one simple reason BECAUSE I CAN”
    If not how secure is your password?
    How many people have access to your computers?
    Do you let people use your connection as a VPN and/or do you have a virtual server setup? “Even if people think that’s out of the question think again because I have a few setup for friends that have crappy computers” Most for gaming purposes but I cannot be 100% sure since it’s none of my fucking business.
    On a normal day how many hours are you away from your home?
    Does your kids if you have any have friends coming over?
    Do you let friends come over while your gone? I don’t know about you but I do every once in a while.

    They’ll have a very hard time with their case and it will be seen by all they DO NOT want trials they want to extort people.
    Just because you get something from the internet does not mean it’s automatically worth thousands.

    If they actually cared about “fair” they would sue for a reasonable amount and even then artist never see one fucking cent when they extort people.

  • Violated0

    This is certainly a major trial but let us keep in mind that these Copyright Trolls just want to abuse the law from profit. It would therefore be no surprise if they drop the case or at least go for a default judgement against them when then there is no major ruling against them to harm their future subpoenas.

    So them making up some lame excuse to pull out now would be expected. No case has gone to trial and that is the way that they want to keep it.

    This is not to say that it would not be nice to see a Bellwether trial when if they do believe their claims as valid then so should this be tested in Court. There would indeed be many interested groups in this case when this case would go to affect all future cases that they are involved in.

    IP evidence alone is of course not passable and the United States has never made one of those stupid laws making subscribers responsible for all that happens on their own connections. So unless Malibu Media pull a rabbit out of their hat then there is only one conclusion here in that who did the claimed event is unprovable.

    • Guest

      Yeah I am inclined to agree here that the copyright troll will back out of pursuing its case against these 5 defendants and that these 5 people will no longer be subject to the case against them and that way it will still leave the way open for the copyright trolls to pursue future blackmail extortion claims against people as they will not have lost the case against them. It’s very much like the US government in the Rojat (however it is spelt) website case dropping the case when Rojat was going to sue them for wrongly seizing the website etc. as it still leaves the US government open to continue to seize future websites even if its illegally. These copyright trolls will back down and continue to pursue sending out letters and will probably back down and drop all cases against people that decides not to pay but chooses to go to court and fight the copyright trolls.

      • chronoss chiron

        has no choice but to show up and if he dont he gets counter sued into oblivion as they say “with prejudice” , at least showing up and asking to dismiss and giving some half arsed reason might get it dismissed “without prejudice”. Either way to just show up in court with a good lawyer is gonna run you 3000-5000 bucks….

        SO each defendant should join together thus lowering cost to themselves and also file a counter suit for slander and defamation of character.

        • Scary Devil Monastery

          Won’t work. To begin with it could undo the fact that judges have, so far refused to bundle cases such as these together (which was a good thing as it meant the acusers were unable to extort thousands in one and the same case).

          And secondly (although this may be guesswork), I believe the DMCA actually provides the accusers immunity against countersuits unless it can be proven that they were making a wrong accusation willfully.

          Needless to say it’s quite hard to prove intent in such cases. At most the judge can dismiss the case.

          Hence what must change is the wording of the DMCA, in particular the bit where a rights holder is exempted from having to provide actual proof which creates the entire “guilty-until-proven-innocent” paradigm under which most copyright cases hinge right now.

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  • Billg

    I don’t understand why copyright holders win.. all you have to do is say your network has Wi-Fi and someone hacked your Wi-Fi and used it to download copyrighted material, end. of. story. if they can prove otherwise then someone broke the law to get information they weren’t suppose to have.

    • chronoss chiron

      and we all know how easy it is to get a virus….heck i can give everyone one to hold onto…. just install upon receipt of copyright suit and your golden ….lol

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  • Therealex123

    Let me get this straight – all the posters here feel it’s okay to steal porn movies, because they’re, well, they’re porn. And only evil bastards and perverts would produce or watch that stuff.

    Ok, your opinion, fine. Having acquaintances who were in that industry, I disagree, but that’s only my opinion.

    But the general feeling seems to be that copyright as a whole is wrong. Lets go with that. If so, then patents and trademarks should also be wrong. If you invent something, it should be given away. If you build up a brand or franchise, that should also be given away. Sports players should not be paid for what they do, as their income comes from trademarked and protected items and services being sold. THe only pay they should get should be from a percentage of sales receipts from the attendees of a game who are physically there. Companies should be able to manufacture and sell products whether they own the rights to it or not.

    Music, which can be listened to thousands of times throughout your life (unlike books or movies which are usually read only a few times, if that many) should be created, produced, and distributed for free. Subsequent performances should not involve any payment to the writers of those songs.

    You get the idea, there are thousands of other examples. Some probably include your job.

    This system has already been tried in other places, under the general label (inaccurately, I might add) of communism. I’m not saying the posters are communists or supporting communism, but I am saying the logical result of denying rights to producers or creators is a communist society.

    Are the rights being fought for out of bounds? In some cases, perhaps. But the broad brush that’s being used here is equally unfair. As far as who is actually responsible for theft in ISP, I can only relate it to this:

    Here in New York, if you have a party and there is underage drinking, you are responsible. You may not have known it was going on, but the courts decided that it’s your house, your responsibility. If you have an always on internet connection and have decided not to use WPA or equivalent protection, that was your choice. Every single ISP, when providing service, goes to great pains to tell consumers about security. Routers now come with WPA pre-configured. If someone is using your connection to steal, and you don’t know about it or don’t care, perhaps an always on connection is not correct for your situation. There is a certain amount of personal responsibility that has to be assumed by ISP customers.

    The alternative is not viable.

    • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ SJD

      That’s funny you’ve mentioned Communism. As I once noted, Copyright is like Communism: good intentions turned into disaster.

    • chronoss chiron

      ive never downloaded any pron that had a price tag to it….there is more hten enough for free that your just funny as hell ….and the fact you whine is because those prostitutes you have to keep paying to screw you in fornt of a camera and call it art is well getting a tad expensive aint it…..

      the rest of us well we do it for free and we watch it for free. get a life you creepy weirdo…no really i laugh at people that pay for porn….
      -president
      -united hackers association

      p.s. oh and in case your wondering before torrents we’d hack the crap out of idiots like you for laughs not to take your pron cause your admins are the worst on earth…..

      • Therealex123

        when you use the term “you” in your educated post, I must assume you mean it generically – I don’t patronize prostitutes, nor make porn movies (or, at this point in life, even bother watching them).

        I have no idea why you think I have a porn site. All I said was I have acquaintances who were in the industry. By that, I meant actors and actresses who did it for various reasons, mainly when they were younger (with one glaring exception who is still quite famous). But your vitriol is enough in itself to indicate your mentality.

        I like the way you hide behind “we” in discussing your past exploits. I assume you’re referring to a gang of you that worked out of your mothers basement. Perhaps you still do.

        No matter. You don’t have the moral high ground here. Most people have a description for people who, regardless of reason, take something that is for sale but refuse to pay for it. Rationalize it any way you want, and I’m sure you will. But at some point, perhaps after you reach intellectual puberty, you will understand what that description is and why it is appropriate in your case.

    • Conservative

      Nobody here is saying that STEALING is ok.

      Everyone is saying that COPYING is 100% ok.

      The copyright system is an anachronism. It has been made obsolete and unmaintainable by modern technology.

      The patent system is 10000x worse than than the copyright system. The patent system has been 10000% corrupt since at least the 1980s. It serves absolutely NO useful purpose whatsoever.

      I have no problem with the Trademark system so long as it is not abused. Sadly it has been abused lately. :(

      P.S. Porn is not copyrightable in the first place as it does not advance science or the useful arts. So everyone is free to legally make as many copies of porn as their hearts desire. And some people have very large hearts :)

    • Scary Devil Monastery

      “f you have an always on internet connection and have decided not to use WPA or equivalent protection, that…”

      As a system administrator, I can tell you that securing any wifi router from unauthorized use by any teenager able to use google is close to impossible. I can do it only if I’m also willing to spend an hour a day maintaining my network.

      The average wifi user is utterly unable to. What you are saying is, in essence, that the owner of a wifi would be accountable for actions taken by a third party which he or she is completely unable to prevent.

      This is like saying that a gunowner should be accountable for murders committed with his gun even though he has it locked up in a state-of-the-art gun safe in an age where every citizen who wants to carries an industrial plasma torch.

      In short, your wordwall tries to describe a situation where you got all the salient facts utterly wrong.

      Your argument also fails regarding copyright, patents and trademark. Copyright and Patents are related and in most cases not only fail to fulfill their purpose but open a can of exploits rendering the “cure” far worse than the disease. Every serious student of patents – including Thomas Jeffersson who actually served some years as a patent board member – has come to the conclusion that patents, by and large, are unnecessary.

      Which brings us to the second part – Trademark. Trademark only restricts you in one very major way – it prevents you from committing fraud when you claim that you represent another entity. Trademark is universally acceptable as reasonable, copyright and patents increasingly not.

      However, pro-copyright trolls do keep on trying to mesh the two, concocting a soup called “Intellectual Property” containing one part truth – Trademark/Brand – and two parts utter garbage; Copyright and Patents.

      In short, you DIDN’T get much of anything straight. I would advise some reading into the matter.

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  • chronoss chiron

    This actually doesn’t matter
    they did an end run around the law for the 6 strikes on isps , coming soon to your ISP IN THE USA….

    so who cares they just gt that ip shut off then and off and off and off and off and until they incorrectly assume no more piracy…..

    can hollywood show a way to crack aes encryption? What if i have the word HELLO enough times ot be a 15 megabyte in size …..and decrypt such in court and then what…do i get a counter claim of slander , defamation of character and libel?

    DO i get my lawyers fees back, does society get its fees back for the trial?
    YOU see there should be serious consequences for misusing the justice system.

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  • ethicalfan

    @conservative. I’m glad you have made more money since p2p arrived as a musician. If you want to give your music away for free, that is awesome. People who want to force all creative people to give their music away for free like many posters on this discussion are tyrants.

    • Therealex123

      @ethicalfan – the sword cuts two ways. As a full time musician, many opportunities have opened up to me as a result of the net. I believe that p2p has, in some ways, helped as well. I have made some of our older tunes available for free download, and even have a 9 song free sampler with tunes from our first four releases.

      However, here’s a true story: last year, we played a festival in the UK. After getting offstage I was signing autographs on CDs, and a fellow came up and said “I want you to know. I already have all of your stuff, I got it off Frostwire. But I’d like to buy a CD and, you know, support the group.”

      Now how am I supposed to respond to that? We’re not Lady Gaga famous and demanded; I know there aren’t millions of illegal downloads of our stuff. I appreciate that he realized we needed the money, touring is prohibitively expensive (especially now with gas going so high).

      But we have our new release done. We had to have it remixed and remastered, and it could have been out last January but I just didn’t have the $5000 to get it finished. I’ve been literally scraping together the money a few bucks at a time. Now I need to get together $1500 so we can actually get the CDs made (yes, I know most people get downloads these days. But CD sales off the stage are what keeps tours going, and most bookers, radio stations and reviewers demand physical CDs, as do most awards contests – including the Grammys). Then we need to hire a promoter, or it won’t get heard. Simple facts of the business.

      I can’t say for a fact “we could afford it if not for people taking our stuff”, but it sure wouldn’t hurt. To make it more complicated, I just have no way of knowing if those sales we get from CD Baby digital distribution (I tunes, Amazon, etc.) are the result of people downloading stuff for free and then deciding to buy, or from hearing us on TouchTunes jukeboxes – and boy, you want to talk about bands getting ripped off – or from just hearing us live or on YouTube or word of mouth or something. All I know for sure is this: major labels are not going to give us a fair deal. More and more people seem to think it’s ok to take music, like it’s a free prize in a cracker jack box, because there’ll always be more.

      My keyboardist’s son is in a very popular metal band that tours all over the world, and they say their fans all steal their music. They make up for it by buying tons of merchandise at concerts, but that’s starting to slow down. Their type of music gets NO radio play, so they don’t make any money that way. They play 5,000 to 15,000 seat venues, but the touring costs eat up most of the guarantee. When the merch drops below a certain point, and the music isn’t being bought, and the cost of touring keeps rising – well, you can figure it out.

      • Scary Devil Monastery

        The more people who choose to listen to you, the more people, in the end, will want to come see your gigs. That’s a start. If you’re good enough – have enough to offer to cater to enough fans – the process becomes self-perpetuating.

        As an artist, you need to wrap your head about the one fact which is important; you want to have as many people as possible listening to you, no matter the how. Once they do is when you get them swarming your concerts which is when you start seeing cash.

        Now if you’d managed to sign with a label what you’d really have is a phat huge-arsed loan which your label would then spend to promote your image by much the same. Putting your music where everyone could see it, putting your posters up on every corner, etc…

        And, of course, owning every last effort of yours all the way down to the odor of your farts for several years with no obligation to pay you back much of anything. You’d have a “retainer” consisting of high-interest loans and be hoping to hell you’d sell enough records to make the money back so you could get out of the indentured serfdom asap.

        And if you’re one of the lucky 0,0001% you might manage, and get to be the next Lady Gaga.

        Your problem is that since you aren’t Lady Gaga, gigs will be your bread-and-butter. Your fans will buy the CD’s you print and tickets to your gigs. Make it easy enough to get the records from Amazon and you might see sales there as well, as Trent Reznor did.

  • ethicalfan

    @guest. I can prove conclusively that an ISP can confirm what IP address you are using 100% of the time. Just don’t pay your bill. Your router will stop working 100% of the time. To suggest that a multi-billion dollar technology company like Comcast or Verizon with 10,000 internet engineers cannot link a subscriber account to an IP address is ridiculous.

    • Guest

      Hackers can spoof your IP address so that they can download stuff and because it is spoofed with your IP address then you as the IP address holder and account holder will get the blame for it. How would you feel if someone spoofed your IP address and then you got the blame for all the copyright infringement and taken to court?. How do you prove your innocence?. If you say to the copyright troll sorry it wasn’t me it was someone else then you would be laughed at. Do you still stand by your argument that an IP address proves who the person is that is responsible to have downloaded copyright infringement now? Good look in proving your innocence when you are faced with having to pay thousands of dollars because you as person with the IP address that was linked to the downloading of copyright infringement even though your IP address was spoofed by someone else.

    • http://twitter.com/c0rtana c0rtana/Scott Crain

      It’s simple to link a subscriber account with one. A subscriber account, under the law, does NOT equal a person. You can’t prove it was ME, just someone using my account.

      • Michael_odonnell

        “You can’t prove it was ME, just someone using my account.”

        Not even that, without further evidence. Any agent connected to the network can write any IP address anywhere. A packet with a particular IP address in it was not neccesarily part of any transaction involving any entity normally associated with that address. It can even be an error.

    • Scary Devil Monastery

      And once again you are in the wrong. Yes, your ISP can confirm what ROUTER you use.

      For 99% of router owners, that means for all intents and purposes, they give bandwidth to anyone who wants it within 50 meters. And those users will ALSO lead straight back to you.

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  • Neotoasty

    I can’t wait for the results. “And the evidence your honor, is in this bag!” They will show the bag to reveal nothing but papers with numbers on them that all aimlessly point in various servers. Or you know it could have nothing but air in the bag to be treated like as if something is inside when really there isn’t.

  • A S

    They is gonna burn in court

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  • http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ SJD
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