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First Kiwi File-Sharer Guilty, But Lack of Evidence Kills Large Fines

New Zealand’s Copyright Tribunal has handed down its first penalty to an Internet subscriber accused of downloading and sharing music without permission. While the case is a victory for the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand, the details make it a rather hollow one. All attempts by the music industry group to extract large punitive damages failed due to an almost complete lack of evidence.

pirateThe so-called ‘Skynet’ anti-piracy law in New Zealand has been operational for some time, but it took until yesterday for the legislation to claim its first victim.

The case involves a female customer of local ISP Telecom and perhaps dates back well over a year.

Background

The unnamed individual was sent a so-called ‘detection notice’ by Telecom’s copyright infringement team on November 24 2011. The claim, originating from Island Def Jam Music Group (Universal), stated that the subscriber had shared the Rihanna song ‘Man Down’.

Then, on June 19 2012, a second ‘warning notice’ was sent to the same subscriber after the woman was discovered to have uploaded the same track again.

A third ‘Enforcement Notice’ was sent to the individual on July 30 2012, claiming that this time she had been monitored by RCA Records (Sony Music) sharing the Hot Chelle Rae track ‘Tonight Tonight’.

Following this final ‘strike’ the subscriber’s case was filed with New Zealand’s Copyright Tribunal in August 2012. The following month the woman wrote to the Tribunal outlining her explanation for the alleged infringements, accepting the claims on one track but denying another, and stating that she had experienced difficulties shutting her torrent client down.

Confession

“The first song downloaded was a song called Man Down by Rihanna. I accept responsibility for this. I downloaded this song unaware that in doing so from this site was illegal,” she wrote in her submission.

“When this song was downloaded to my computer, a whole uTorrent program downloaded onto my computer..[W]hen I turned my computer on it said that the song was still downloading and maybe that caused the song to register twice as it being downloaded?”

As for the Hot Chelle Rae track, that remains a mystery.

“I can’t claim responsibility for this as it wasn’t done by myself or anyone in this household but if I find the person responsible for downloading this through my internet then I will definitely enforce the consequences behind do so,” she concludes.

Guilty upon accusation (but the confession didn’t help)

Interestingly, the Tribunal noted that there was insufficient evidence in the case for it to make any detailed findings but since there is a “statutory presumption” that each incidence of file-sharing alleged in an infringement notice constitutes an actual infringement of copyright, the Tribunal accepted that illicit file-sharing had taken place.

Calculating the punishment

So, with guilt under current law established, the Tribunal set about the task of a financial punishment. According to regulations, in a downloading case the cost of the infringed products must be considered. Man Down is available of iTunes for $2.39 (US$2.00) and Tonight Tonight at $1.79 (US$1.50).

However, since this case also involves uploading (distribution) there is an additional cost to be considered there. RIANZ wanted to hold the individual responsible for many alleged uploads to other BitTorrent users but the Tribunal wasn’t happy with that suggestion.

“As the [RIANZ] rightly acknowledges, a difficulty in this case is that it is not known how many downloads, if any, were made from the sound recordings uploaded by the account holder. Using current internet detection services the rightsholders were not able to obtain details of the number of persons who downloaded the tracks in issue,” the Tribunal wrote.

With this in mind the Tribunal said it would order the subscriber to pay RIANZ double the iTunes price of Man Down (2 x $2.39) and the same for Tonight Tonight (2 x $1.79) – a total of $6.57 (US$5.49). This aspect of the Tribunal’s decision will be a huge disappointment for RIANZ.

But despite the low penalty to pay to rightsholders, a few more loose ends still had to be tied up. The Tribunal said that the subscriber should pay the costs of sending the warning notices – a total of $50 (US$42.00) – and the Tribunal application fee of $200 (US$167).

The ‘deterrent sum’ – and lack of evidence.

Finally there was the issue of the “deterrent sum”. Three elements are to be considered – the “flagrancy” of the infringement, the effect of the infringing activity on the market for the work and whether the other sums awarded by the Tribunal already constitute a sufficient deterrent.

In this respect RIANZ argued that the fact the subscriber had uTorrent on her computer, had been monitored three times over an eight month period, and that it “defied common sense” that more infringements hadn’t been carried out in that time other than the ones detected. The music group also argued that the first two warnings not to infringe had been ignored by the subscriber.

In response the Tribunal said that the factors listed by RIANZ could be common to most of the cases coming before the Tribunal in future so therefore could not be regarded as “particularly flagrant”. It did accept, however, that the infringements took place over a lengthy period, but noted that the subscriber had a clean record, took responsibility, apologized and engaged with the Tribunal.

In respect of the potentially damaging effect on the market caused by the infringements but with no evidence to back up their claims, RIANZ put forward a report commissioned in 2008 by the IFPI in the UK. It didn’t help their case.

“The Tribunal has felt unable to accord much weight to this UK report,” the Tribunal noted adding that it related to a different BitTorrent client (Azureus as apposed to uTorrent), related to different works, related to entire albums rather than to individual tracks, and is nearly five years out of date.

Decision

With these issues in mind the Tribunal ordered the subscriber to pay a deterrent sum of $120 per infringement to a total of $360 (US$301.00).

Overall the subscriber will have to pay a grand total of $616.57 ($515.64), hardly the amount RIANZ had in mind when they started this whole “3 strikes” machine rolling several years ago.

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  • http://profiles.google.com/pianogamer Knut Harald

    So “defiing common sense” is the new evidence standard now?

    You can take any random person, and declare that it defies common sense that they haven’t infringed copyright more than you have evidence of… while I agree, I don’t see why a court should care.

    • MadAsASnake

      Likely to be true for a significant part of the population. If the media industries really want to stop this happening then they really have to make more relevant market offerings. Trying to stop what – 25-30% of a population from doing something they see no wrong in is a lost cause. A Cause they lost in the 90′s when they did not engage with the Internet.

    • Guest

      They’ve as good as admitted that they calculate damages by pulling any number they see fit out of their ass. As though there was ever any doubt.

  • http://geekhideout.net/ The G33K

    *sniff* I’m sorry, I have sorta choked up…. *sniff* It’s just so heartwarming to see that the process’s of procedural fairness, equity and rules of evidence (in relation to authenticity, relevance and reliability) are carried out.

    It gives one a sense of wonder, and amazement that in common law countries… outside of the USA that is… justice itself is carried out and respected. Oh and the fact that the RIANZ (and there masters the MPAA/RIAA) would be basically ropeable is just a bonus.

  • Guest

    Who wants to bet that as a result of bringing this filthy criminal to justice, Rihanna is $120 richer?

    I think I smell a free $5 from bobmail.

    • cgimusic

      I seriously doubt Rihanna is any richer. The filthy bastards will have kept all the profit for themselves.

      • Guest

        thatsthejoke.jpg

        • cgimusic

          Ahh, OK. I don’t think I understood the last bit. I haven’t seen bobmail in a while but I remember disagreeing with him last time I replied to a comment of his.

        • Guest

          The joke is that bobmail’s ilk is insistent that these initiatives are for the artists’ benefit, which is a premise that has never come to pass, period. Which makes the moral aspect of their argument somewhat weak when they try to bring the artist into the debate.

        • bobmail

          Guest, you are full of shit. I don’t claim anything is specifically, directly to benefit the artist. IE, it’s not a case of collect $1 here, give 90 cents to the artist. It’s about creating the level playing field where the artists can actually make a living.

          Let me tell you, the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore, that is for sure. He knows he can get caught, and he will tell his friends they can get caught too. The risk / reward deal just shifted for them.

          Now, if you paid attention, and stopping being a jackoff, you might understand.

        • ScrewEwe2

          He’s a “She” Bob. You need to stop Dissing and Cussing if you want to engage people in discussions. Just trying to help Bob.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “Let me tell you, the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore, that is for sure. He knows he can get caught, and he will tell his friends they can get caught too. The risk / reward deal just shifted for them.”

          This, against the fact that piracy has been largely untouched no matter how stringent punishments were handed out? Tell me about the guys who got handed a 30 million dollar fine and seem to be quite unrepentant?

          And what you seem to miss is this – for the person charged, the vast majority of pirates see nothing wrong with filesharing.

          That being the case, the guy who gets smacked sees himself as treated unjustly. He doesn’t feel shame, nor guilt. He feels rage. As do all his friends. Which brings us pirates more votes.

          He’ll keep pirating. He’ll simply take steps not to get caught again. We’ve seen that happen again and again.

          And that’s why, irrespective of how much you try to emulate “Baghdad Bob”-Anon’s diatribe on “withering and lifecrushing punishments you are as much in the wrong as he is.

          Punishments have never mattered in copyright infringement cases. If anything what you’ve just done is to convince the guy who got smacked with the 600$ fine never to spend a single cent on the entities he perceived as robbing him.

          “Now, if you paid attention, and stopping being a jackoff, you might understand.”

          And here we have the usual – trying to push the point with bad language since even you seem to have realized the imaginary world you portray wouldn’t even fool a toddler.

        • Wallace

          “He doesn’t feel shame, nor guilt. He feels rage.”

          Probably not as much rage as people who get sued by BitTorrent trolls, though, or face Anon-style punishments. Both victims will still file-share, but one might be more inclined to buy a movie ticket just this once.

        • Romet6

          The money that she spent on the “Tribunal application fee” might have gone for a concert or some cinema tickets or CDs, she now has less money for those things and she might think twice before spending money on them.

          She sounded like an honest person who downloaded an illegal file just once, she admitted her guilt probably because she believed that common sense would prevail and they would just let it slide. They might have actually turned someone who supports them against them.

          You don’t gain people’s support by attacking them.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Exactly.

          What we are looking at is the industry, once again forgetting the napster lesson. One which transformed Metallica into pariahs overnight and had them struggling like madmen for ten years in order to build a new fan base. Much of the old one having burned the CD’s they bought of this band of “rebels” in public.

        • Romet6

          Yeah, that was shocking and unforgivable for a band such as Metallica. I used to actually buy some of their albums as well as download them, I’ve also been to their concert the first time they visited my country but years later when they were here again I thought to myself “F**k Them!”

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “…years later when they were here again I thought to myself “F**k Them!”"

          Most of their former fans said the same.

          It does not pay to piss on your own image. Had Metallica gone down their perceived rebel route and done a “Monty Python” on napster, they would have had their next ten years worth of concerts pre-booked instead.

          And I guess that may be why a far more humble Metallica started flirting with Reznor’s NIN model in 2008 and eating crow.

        • Guest

          Then each and every time you dumbshits bring up the starving artist as a reason to support the RIAA, you can take that poor excuse of an excuse and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. If all you wanted to prove was that people could be fined ridiculous amounts of money, for publicly admitted randomly arbitrary numbers, you’re not winning any favours. Tell us – exactly why is HADOPI sending out more letters, when you proudly claimed that people were casually pirating less, jackass?

        • Guest321

          No Bobby, you got it wrong again. She most definitely ain’t gonna quit file sharing, nobody ever does. Yes, she will tell her friends about it and one of her friends will show her how to protect herself in future and she will become wiser. Just count her as one more vote for the pirate party.

        • icec0ld

          “Guest, you are full of shit. I don’t claim anything is specifically, directly to benefit the artist. IE, it’s not a case of collect $1 here, give 90 cents to the artist. It’s about creating the level playing field where the artists can actually make a living.”

          There is no playing field.

          Not a cent of this money has gone to any artist any where. The $600 or whatever is left it has gone right where we knew it would, the pocket of a money grubbing parasitic corporation sponging off the talent of the real artists.

          “Let me tell you, the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore, that is for sure. He knows he can get caught, and he will tell his friends they can get caught too. The risk / reward deal just shifted for them.”

          1 person. Out of roguhly 8 million

        • platyourpus

          (He knows he can get caught, and he will tell his friends they can get caught too.)

          Her not He,read more carefully sweetie.
          This case will only generate more Hate for the Mafiaa.

        • platyourpus

          Sorry icecOld, my reply was to bobmail.

        • Ophelia Millais

          Let me tell you, the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore, that is for sure. He knows he can get caught, and he will tell his friends they can get caught too. The risk / reward deal just shifted for them.

          Well, by the same token, these people also aren’t lining up to buy products from the assholes who sued them, nor does the deterrent effect spread much beyond that “guy” (woman, actually) and “his” circle of friends, if even that far.

          So nothing is gained. Piracy continues unabated. Even the extreme statutory damage awards in the Tenenbaum & Thomas-Rasset cases in the U.S. were completely ineffective as deterrents. It’s pointless to try.

        • Guest

          bobmail

          ” It’s about creating the level playing field where the artists can actually make a living.”

          Piracy doesn’t stand in the way of artists making a living, Baghdad Bob.

          http://www.google dot com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=pirates+%22buy+more%22

          Thanks to the internet the playing field is now very level. Oh wait, that’s actually what you have a problem with, isn’t it?

          “the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore”

          You’re right, he’s probably lining up for a VPN.

          Next he’ll line up to share more songs.

          “Now, if you paid attention”

          If WE pay attention? Excuse me, but YOU’RE the dumbshit who doesn’t notice how these schemes like Skynet fail utterly in their mission to reduce piracy. And no, don’t drag out HADOPI – even the president of Warner Music says its results are shit.

        • Guest

          Funny how even Baghdad bobmail’s hero/pimp says that HADOPI isn’t repressive enough. That’s a real kicker. Still enjoying Robert King’s Cowper’s fluid running down your chinny chin chin eh bobby?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “If WE pay attention? Excuse me, but YOU’RE the dumbshit who doesn’t notice how these schemes like Skynet fail utterly in their mission to reduce piracy.”

          Someone should tell him that spending hundreds of millions worldwide every year just to get a dozen people in court to pay petty fines isn’t a good bargain.

          And if anything it just illustrates to everyone the numbers: “You mean out of a few hundred million pirates they catch less than a dozen every year? And fine them for roughly a speeding ticket?”.

          Most people are smart enough to realize they are more likely to get hauled over and fined for going 5 mph over the speed limit in rush hour.

        • SoundnuoS

          I’ll have to counter your collection of google links, all pretty much referencing the same research with this link again:
          http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2132153

          “Based on our review of the empirical literature we conclude that, while some
          papers in the literature find no evidence of harm, the vast majority of the
          literature (particularly the literature published in top peer reviewed journals)
          finds evidence that piracy harms media sales.”

          HC-pirates might be among the bigger spenders, but this does not mean piracy as a whole does not hurt sales.

        • xpmule

          ” the artists can actually make a living”

          correction..

          where the record labels and distributors can make far MORE than a living. You seem to be ignoring the obvious fact that artists receive almost nothing.. 1% of the pie.

          The pimps need to get paid while the artists are forced onto the street with a black eye.

        • Wallace

          “Let me tell you, the guy who just spent $600 for a couple of songs ain’t lining up to pirate anymore, that is for sure.”

          I said the $600 fine would be a BETTER deterrent than the US attempts. Better in that it would not inspire as much sales-killing animosity.

          I am happy to buy a ticket to Skyfall, for example (even though they might give me a strike) but I will never again pay to watch a Voltage Pictures film (because they threaten lawsuits).

          The fact that almost all of that $600 goes to the local courts for their time is a bonus. it literally is a lot like a speeding ticket or another “idiot tax.”

          But yeah, he’ll pirate again.

        • Romet6

          Yes, I am sure that the money RIANZ received from this is more than enough to cover all of their costs so far and now the person in question will go out and buy a lot of CD’s while telling her friends to do the same, rather than listening the songs on Youtube.

          Let us all rejoice, this is a great day for artists worldwide!

        • Ardvaark

          Of course no artist gets a cent from this.

          That’s why some artists who dislike piracy hate these programs, because it doesn’t fix the problem and pisses off their fans and customers (notice the fans are not the MAFIAA’s customers, they’re just leeching) which only makes things even worse for them.

          I for a fact know several not-so-tech-savy people who started pirating as a protest to such actions by the MAFIAA and which also took extraordinary measures to protect themselves from detection.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Maybe because he keeps losing it lately. Now that he’s run out of lies and people routinely call him on his pet straw men, the only thing he’s got left seems to be invective.

          And he isn’t very imaginative there either. Trust a pro-copyright maximalist to be entirely lacking in creativity…

        • bobmail

          The only thing I am losing is a bit of patience with children like you. Other than that, it’s pretty much victory on victory, small and large, for the rights holders.

          I know, you are too blind to see. That’s okay. It just makes you so much more adorable.

        • ScrewEwe2

          Bob, you seem to have an unhealthy attraction to children, since in your mind, we’re all children. Shouldn’t you be trolling the NAMBLA site instead of TF?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Judging from the mental age he demonstrates while trying to comment lately, NAMBLA is probably the last place our rambling little bobmail would care to show his dyslectic prose.

        • Ophelia Millais

          bobmail, according to the article, the NZ court pointed out that the law there is written such that mere accusation establishes guilt. Even if she was actually guilty and even though you enjoy the rights holders getting “victories”, isn’t there anything about this presumed guilt that feels unethical to you? I mean, notwithstanding that it’s pretty much counter to the founding principles of democratic nations, aren’t you saying “two wrongs make a right” and “if any innocents get swept up in this, not my problem”?

        • Romet6

          Some people just want to see the world burn.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          That’s exactly what he’s saying.

          Him, “Anon”, “Nejtillpirater”, “SoundnuoS” all operate from this assumption.

          They just try to bury that little nugget which acts as the foundation for their arguments in wordwall-wrapped conclusions drawn from that assumption.

        • SoundnuoS

          The question becomes about router responsibility. In some places the law forces you to keep your guns locked up. Is that unacceptable as well?

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “The only thing I am losing is a bit of patience with children like you.”

          Let me see, you admitted to being 24…?

          Then, snotnose, sit the fuck down and shut up in the presence of your elders and betters. You also appear to be losing your sanity – what little of it you had to begin with.

          “Other than that, it’s pretty much victory on victory, small and large, for the rights holders.”

          You mean the way everything you’ve tried in the past and in the present have failed? and ARE still failing to deliver anything?

          No, seriously, bobmail. That’s just like our dear “Baghdad Bob”-Anon, metaphorically standing around proclaiming victory for the republican guard while in the background Abrams tanks are rolling up toward the presidential palace.

          ACTA, SOPA and PIPA were the breaking point. You’ve literally run out of room to maneuver any more without in essence declaring all-out war on the REAL businesses making money out of being online.

          “I know, you are too blind to see. That’s okay. It just makes you so much more adorable.”

          And that lame attempt at marginalization is, at the end of the day, ALL you have to come with. Your problem is that neither I nor any of the other readers are blind enough to allow you to get away with your frequent attempts to rewrite reality.

          Naturally. What next? Abandoning the current nick for a convenient new one so you can keep on peddling the same lies under a fresh hat?

        • JordanKratz

          Fuck Off ! I am not a Child bobmail !!! I am Jordan Kratz 57 Years Old and Original 1976 Boston, Mass Punk Rocker.
          Founder and Singer for Four Different Bands who all have physical Releases over the years.
          Guiess what dickhead bobmail:
          I share all my Art with the World and they all have my permission to share my Art and Use it.Just credit us if you use our Music in a film or something.
          We did not nor do we do Art so we can make Money but we do it cause someone has to.
          http://www.bigmeathammer.com
          I also Seed stuff on TPB, ETC but I do Mirror it all on my Maine Website.Also Videos are there and some of them are pretty wacky.
          I also Mirror all the Videos on youtube.See Big Meat Hammer, The GoreHounds, The Lynn Rebels, or The Transplants (1976-79) Boston Punk Rock.

        • platyourpus

          (It just makes you so much more adorable.)

          Careful bob some people might think you are batting for the other team.

        • Freebies For Everyone

          I am a little kid, so what?
          bobmail, if you’re so happy about these great victories,
          why you get frustrated so easily?
          It’s clear that basing your happiness
          in suffering of others, it’s not a good way to live.

          Anyway, you must love the feudalism
          and that’s why you want that every person should pay
          a fee to those lords.

        • icec0ld

          A paltry sum and an admission by the judge circumstance and evidence was flimsy at best.

          NZ ISPs have likely had enough of footing the bill for this level of crap. I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped cooperating at this point given the level of competence demonstrated overall.

          One case and more than 10,000 tax paying hours spent. Yeah, you and your ilk will the first to go next time they look at the budget and the results it brings.

        • Guest

          @bobmail:disqus

          You’re going in to hyper denial mode.

          The whole point of Skynet is to deter piracy, but so far it’s only penalized ONE single pirate with a fine that the average first-world or even second-world citizen can manage to pay.

          How the fuck is THAT supposed to deter us when not even arrests and $100,000+ fines do?

          RIANZ may have “won”, but their victory amounts to a hill of beans and the Skynet law is confirmed to be a horrible failure.

          But hey, keep being divorced from reality. It makes your comments all the more entertaining.

        • Wallace

          “Other than that, it’s pretty much victory on victory”

          hahahahahaha

          I guess when all else fails, you can simply state up is down.

          He did pretty much dare you to say SOMETHING, but it didn’t have to be “der, isn’t what it looks like.”

          You could have said that an irritating $600 fine serves better as a deterrent than a thuggish $600,000 fine. But oh crap, now I’m arguing your side. Well played.

        • Romet6

          I wonder, do you actually look like a troll in real life as well? I don’t mean to say anything negative about your appearance, I just wonder what a person who says these things in a pro-sharing site might look like.

          I mean, you clearly feed on anger and raw hate directed at you and your irrational comments, so I wonder if that has somehow permanently affected your physical appearance as well.

        • ScrewEwe2

          Bob?

        • Ardvaark

          Oh you…
          Claiming victory and all…

          Lets have a look at 2012 by this time:

          -Everyone was panicking with filelockers going down especially MEGA
          -Everyone was panicking with SOPA and simmilar laws.
          -MAFIAA & CO. were screaming victory!
          -More people get prosecuted
          -3/6 strikes policies get implemented
          -Copyright trolls scare the shit out of people with mass lawsuits

          1 year later….
          -Kim launches MEGA.
          -Kim Dotcom slowly and steady proves the DoJ and the US Government wrong about the Megaupload seizure.
          -Intrusive laws like SOPA and PIPA are gone.
          -X Strikes policies are proven useless, inefective and pirate trafic seems to increase.
          -Several countries in Europe legalized piracy
          -1 Country abolished US copyright and is getting ready to legally (and not by national but by INTERNATIONAL standards) distribute “pirated” copyrighted material.
          -More and More courts claim copyright trolls’ lawsuits as void and without enough evidence or don’t accept them at all

          I could go on but I think I’ve proven my point…

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “I could go on but I think I’ve proven my point…”

          Better copy and save that most excellent post of yours. Bobmail, Anon, Nejtillpirater, or whatever this army of cloned yokels like to call themselves at the moment, will conveniently forget all about these facts ever having been brought to the table.

          This is the way astroturfing works in a tough audience. Repeat, copy and paste the same nonsensical arguments until people are tired of hearing them and stop refuting them.

          Then roll out the real agenda when the opposition is exhausted.

          Of course, astroturfing only really works when what is at stake is an opinion. In the case of copyright enforcement the only way to keep an argument going for the pro-copyright side is to deny reality and fact…or openly come out with the view that civil rights are a secondary concern.

          That would be seen as less politically correct.

          And that’s why bobmail willingly spouts nonsense flying in the face of historical fact, basic information technology, Science and law – in the exact same way his contemporaries on swedish forums do.

          It’s a way to upset people and make them go away, or kill the forum threads with garbage.

          I doubt the manual on “Astroturfing 101″ – or “online market engineering” has anything to say about what to do when the trolling little runt instead becomes that clown most of the forum comes to see and laugh at.

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          Considering that SDM has backed up all his refutations with citations and fact, and all I see from you is ad hominem and invective, I’m pretty sure he’s the one spnaking you.

  • cgimusic

    This case seemed to be handled unusually fairly but I still think that the “deterrent sum” is just an amount that they tack on when the damages aren’t actually as high as they want.

    • http://twitter.com/quietobserving Andrei

      How exactly is it fair to say that a simple claim of infringement equals guilty? When RIANZ filed, the judge didn’t debate whether the accusation is true but merely how to handle the fines.

      • cgimusic

        I meant compared to most copyright witchhunts but the woman did admit guilt so is it that much of a stretch to assume she is guilty of violating the law as it stands (not that it should be that way)?

        • MadAsASnake

          Only on one of the three

        • cgimusic

          I suppose but the bulk of the fine was for administrative fees. That seems like the bigger injustice.

        • MadAsASnake

          Nope. The bulk would appear to be on the “deterrent” element. There is no place for these in civil cases.

        • Guest

          As was explained earlier – they are called punitive damages and are entiurely appropriate in civil cases.

          See here http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/punitive+damages

        • MadAsASnake

          There would typically have to be some aggravating factor. The judge actually appears to have been saying there was no evidence of any (probably because there was no evidence at all).

        • Guest

          Damages were awarded. Fact. What you think the judge “appears to have been saying”. Speculation.

        • MadAsASnake

          Much of what is said on tf is.

        • http://twitter.com/quietobserving Andrei

          I was talking about the “statutory presumption”. It’s not the first time I’ve heard about this and everytime it looks like more and more abuse.

          And how can you even utter “assume she is guilty”? Guilt shouldn’t be an assumption but a conclusion based on evidence. Under duress people can admit to almost anything if properly pressed, that’s why in no respectable justice system is a simple confession enough to decide guilt, let alone in a case where out of three counts the confession affects only one. Add to that the fact the judge himself admitted there’s not enough evidence to disseminate the partial confession and you can see the whole thing hands on the “presumption of guilt”.

          I’ve lived in communism until adulthood so I can recognize the inspiration for such lawmaking.

    • VapourTrail

      Most courts in A/NZ are usually pretty neutral. We don’t have the problem of coporate puppeteers like the US does. They’ve certainly tried to enforce their views on us though, however, it doesn’t often work (although a certain NZ resident might debate that, but even there the courts have been sticking up for him).

      • NoIdeaWhatYoureTalkingAbout

        While we have some very good people running the justice system in this country, we certainly do in fact suffer from corporate puppets within politics. The fact you aren’t aware of this worries me, but isn’t out of the ordinary. Most of our country is pretty much blind to what is going on here.

  • MadAsASnake

    Presumption of guilt simply isn’t on. If I was this person, i would pay for one and refuse the other two on the grounds that 1 was a duplicate and 1 was not proven. The message that RIANZ cannot demand ruinous sums and expect to get them is a good one however.

    • nony

      They got the money, patience, and power. What are you gonna do when they come for you? You take a lawyer, you pay every month for three years. You don’t take a lawyer, good luck in the court alone, after which you’ll have to pay for THEIR legal costs. Either way, you have already lost the financial battle.

      In this case it was 600 bucks… for one song. Imagine if you aren’t that well off, like the lawyers and the jury. It might be your entire month’s income. Now imagine if these associations begin doing this in grander scale. Legal terrorism.

      • MadAsASnake

        demand a hearing in a real court with real laws

        • Brett Cooper

          You have no idea of the NZ law… She could have change her ways, or atleast her account.
          That whole lawyers thing is a USA thing and also is why it’s only $600, that’s like a speeding ticket.

        • MadAsASnake

          I am a kiwi and have a pretty good idea of NZ law. This thing can charge $15000 against which there is literally no defence, and not one scrap of evidence is needed. IP evidence is so poor that this can all happen without any action on the part of the victim at all. It needs to be thrown out for the travesty it is.

      • Brett Cooper

        Two songs, didn’t you read the full story posted above?

        • MadAsASnake

          There was only evidence for one.

        • Wormlore

          Correction, according to the article, there was evidence for none. And only confession for one. And in several countries, confession alone is insufficient. (I don’t know about NZ, though.) That does make quite an empty case.

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  • BuddhaFacePalmed

    SCORE
    Common Sense & Decency 1 – 0 MAFIAA

    • Romet6

      500 bucks for one song (the one that she admitted to downloading) is an insanity not common sense. She shouldn’t have to pay for their costs of spying on her and sending overly expensive letters and for putting up a show with their tribunal.

      • MadAsASnake

        I think a lot of folks are so use to the lunatic US cases and this seems “reasonable” by comparison.

  • MadAsASnake

    It is fascinating also that RIANZ seem to believe that having a BitTorrent client on your PC is proof you are a serial pirate. The fact that these are perfectly legal and have plenty of legal uses seems to have passed them by, A good question would be: If she was doing this why was it not detected?

    RIANZ offered no evidence at all of how many people downloaded from her – hmm BitTorrent doesn’t work like that.

    I’m also wondering what place in civil law “deterrents” should have. None at all, I think is the right answer. I’d refuse to pay those too…

    • Just watching

      I’m also wondering what place in civil law “deterrents” should have. None at all, I think is the right answer.

      They’re called “punitive” damages and have been part of civil law forever….

      • MadAsASnake

        Punished on the presumption of guilt and a total absence of evidence? Great! I thought damages need to be proven (on balance of probabilities). If they want to reverse the burden of proof, should they not still have to prove damages?

      • Scary_Devil_Monastery

        Perhaps they should not be. Deterrence is an archaic concept which simply doesn’t work well – or works at cross-purposes (witness the reaction to the pirate bay trial, for example).

        Punitive damages on the scale of a speeding ticket are annoying – and annoyance deters. In this case it deters being naíve enough to own an uplink without a VPN.
        Had the sum been an imaginary five-digit number, pirates would simply have had yet another martyr and a larger supply of rage.

  • The Guy

    2 songs for 3.50? Jeez, damn extortionists.

  • http://twitter.com/Power2All Power2All

    And thats exactly the crux.
    I’ve modified my client to only upload “50%” of a song to every peer.
    So basically, I could never have sended a full song/movie/game to a user.
    By law, I am then not sharing the file, as it is considered sharing when you have uploaded the full thing.

    Gotta love law :)

    • Phil MacGobblegiver

      Hopefully ill never be downloading anything from you or anyone like you.You take 100% but give half back,sounds fair.If all filesharers were like you we’d be fucked.Good luck with yr 50% defence if yr ever in court lololol

      • Ophelia Millais

        I agree, copyright law is written such that it’s infringement to copy or distribute even a tiny portion, be it a page from a book, a sample of a song, or a fragment of a file. You may be able to argue that you didn’t cause as much harm as a long-term seeder, thus deserve a lighter punishment, but first you’d have to admit that you were willfully infringing. People have to remember, there is no “yeah I did it but it’s OK because…” defense. The book is thrown at you before you can finish your sentence.

        But Phil, it also sounds like you are making an argument about needing to give back at least as much as you take. That’s not true. I mean, yeah, if nobody uploaded, nothing would get distributed. But the health of a swarm depends on the combined upload capability of all peers; any one particular peer’s upload-to-download ratio doesn’t have to be anywhere near 100%, or any number in particular. The BitTorrent protocol was designed specifically to address the fact that individuals usually have much less capability to upload than to download. If you want to look at it like leechers and people with low ratios are burdening the long-term seeders, you can, but having most of the swarm giving back less than what they take, at least for the popular torrents, is how it normally plays out, and it’s fine.

      • Romet6

        He said “to every peer.” He could be sharing it with hundreds of people and someone else would give them the other half. How is that unfair? The courts however seem to do whatever they feel like, no matter what the law says, so even if the law would be on his side, it might not matter.

    • liam Jh

      “I’ve modified my client to only upload “50%” of a song to every peer” Power2All
      So they use the argument that you have facilitated the sharing of the song and fine you for every single one of em, because that what will happen. Sharing 1% or 100% , its all the same, you have sent part of the “whole” and are as liable as everyone else who shared a %.
      I don’t agree with it, but that’s how it works.

    • Aponymous

      I always wondered if some fair use argument could be made if you don’t upload the whole thing, heh

      • MadAsASnake

        Nope, but the upload on torrent arguments from the trolls are pretty disingenuous. It’s the seeders they should go after – now why don’t they?

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  • MadAsASnake

    I wonder what would have happened if she had burned the track to a CD, produced that CD in court and explained that she had already paid royalties on the blank media?

    • sumgai

      We don’t have blank media taxes like that in NZ

      • MadAsASnake

        I seem to remember there being one on blank tapes – did they do away with that?

      • xpmule

        i do and i will keep a note about that if i’m ever hauled into court thanks lol

  • anonymous

    ‘since there is a “statutory presumption” that each incidence of
    file-sharing alleged in an infringement notice constitutes an actual
    infringement of copyright,’

    this is so wrong! the entertainment industries are half way to winning a case simply because of getting the law changed from ‘innocent until proven guilty’ to ‘guilty on accusation unless able to prove innocence’. our society is supposed to be based on the former, on fairness and on evidence, not on anything else.

    the grand total of $616.57 ($515.64) she still has to pay for a couple of songs may well be a pittance to RIANZ, but it is none the less a lot of money for just a couple of songs! in reality, the amount bears no sensible resemblance on the true cost of the tracks. the amount of harm done would have been just as negligible as well. had it been catastrophic, you can bet your arse that RIANZ would have been able to prove it. more than anything, this case shows that despite what they say, the entertainment industries are winning cases through accusations and not through reap evidence. their biggest ally is the awards given and that all depends on whether the judge they get is ‘one of theirs’ or not!!

    • xpmule

      ya and they are guilty of stalking and invasion of privacy for spying on us in the first place and maybe entrapment.. the police are not allowed to stalk me until i create a crime and then arrest me because they watched me 24hrs a day until they had enough evidence for a speeding ticket or something.. usually they have to go and get permission from a judge etc ..unless maybe you live in the USA where your guy’s Patriot Act kinda destroyed your civil rights (Terrorists did more harm than you realize)

      • Timbo

        Yes, and we have FISA (warrantless wiretapping) as well, all in the name of ending terrorism.

  • TempleNewsam

    I know it sounds kinda over the top buy maybe the utorrent people should modify their client so it only runs through a proxy or vpn setup to protect the unwary.
    A nice free mass market Antigua proxy would be useful :o)

    • xpmule

      pay someone to hide you from your stalker will only work for so long especially when your stalker is the FBI / MPAA/RIAA and any law enforcement related people anywhere inlcuding lawyers.. but hey good luck with hiding behind your VPN i bet that will work out great for you guys *for now.. and don’t worry about the rest of us who STILL value our rights and will not pay money to poorly “simulate” them.. you guys can laugh and point and call us idiots while we’re victimized but get your jabs in soon your bullet proof VPN systems may not work for long..

  • markh

    I noticed that the trolls are asleep, Bobmail where are you troll nothing to say I bet

    • xpmule

      ..there here whether they are quiet or not count on it !
      and bob was getting into to it as usual on this story further up the page..
      don’t forget these slime balls (many of them) get paid to spy on us and disrupt any activity they can on ANY web site or network they can infiltrate. have a look at your torrent logs these days and see how many corrupt chunks get sent and users get banned etc.. i see this a lot on popular torrents these days and it’s usually at the very end of the file and the chunk failures go on for quite a while banning tons of people.. i also run peerblock too so i wonder how much worse it may be if i did not ?

    • Guest

      Punitive damages are not usual practice outside United States. The German Constitutional court ruled that imposition of punitive damage awards without criminal proof violates due process.

      US law regarding punitive damages in civil cases is not world law.

  • anons

    I lol’d when I saw the decision. LMAO

  • dondilly

    I think bittorrent inc might have something to say about RIANZs attitude if ‘she had bittorrent on her pc so must be g July’ attitude.

    2 music tracks in a yr is hardly a big catch, the number and freq seems to fit more a person with torrent on their mobile walking past an secured wifi.

    I cant see this lasting long if the media cant turn persecution into a revenue stream. As with copyright trolls, only those dumb enough to plead guilty will end up being chased.

    People must realise that unlike a criminal case with over whelming evidence a guilty plea saves court time reducing your sentence. In these cases, evidence is next to non existent they can only proceed against you if you plead guilty.

  • Andrew me

    Nice to see the tribunal is not 100% on the side of the media companies, but saying that the fact that this was only for 2 tracks should be relevant , i thought they said they are only going after the big file sharers.

    The one nice thing about the Tribunal is the fact that they were not hoodwinked into accepting evidence that was irrelevant.
    I wonder how this would have gone if the person in question had claimed that she did not know anything about this and claimed her innocence. Possibly giving a list of 10-15 people that had access to her router as family or friends.

    If the media company could not prove it was her downloading the tracks there would have been no case and it is impossible to prove.
    It is not realistic to think that any normal person could ever identify who had used her router to download the files.

    This case if she had just kept quiet would have been a perfect example how the system does not work and can never work unless the accused admits to the “crime”

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      ” …but saying that the fact that this was only for 2 tracks should be relevant , i thought they said they are only going after the big file sharers.”

      Every now and then the *IAA’s go after a filesharer – usually to be able to show at least ONE result. What it actually does is simply to illuminate the fact that every now and then, someone does get struck by lightning.

      • MadAsASnake

        I see it as a sort of negative lottery – where the entry fee is an ISP account. Funny, chances of winning the jackpot at Lotto or scratch cards are far higher.

        • Romet6

          Hah, Devil is making a great point with this!

          Sadly, there is still a lot of people who do believe and invest in lottery, despite the fact that they are more likely to die in a car crash on their way to buy the ticket than they are to actually get a big win.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          This is actually the same scare tactic as that employed by terrorists (or government looking for a fast way to railroad through a Patriot Act).

          Getting killed in a car crash is thousands of times more likely than even being involved in a terrorist act. Being struck by lightning – twice – is more likely.

          And yet people were going through the streets, bleating like frightened sheep, for several years, over the thought of terrorists.

          Here’s the thing; fear only works for short periods. Two years after 9/11 people were making fun of the color-coded terror alert system and starting to wake up angry.

          And it’s the same with the copyright trials. TPB didn’t frighten filesharers anymore – it galvanized us and made us pirates, the world over, furious.

          And judging from what I hear, there’s not one single non-pirate who doesn’t feel the copyright industry is overreaching badly.

        • Romet6

          I have been keeping my eye on the TSA stories and there was one story where a woman was crying in the airport because the TSA went too far with their pat down and this seems to be standard practice for them. From what I have read, with the FBI’s new definition, what some of them are doing regularly could be called a serial-rape and yet there are still a lot of people who don’t seem to have a problem with this.

          The most disturbing thing about that story was what one of the people standing in the line reportedly said “would you rather the plane blew up?” That kind of logic hurts my brain. You’d have them feel up your girlfriend/wife and do whatever they feel like with your child every time you go through an airport for the tiniest chance that there might be a terrorist on board?

          The terrorists can get past the TSA, if they really want to and either way the people are more likely to die in a car crash than by the hand of terrorists. Perhaps the reason why some conspiracy theorists want to believe that the government is behind some of the attacks is that the attackers seem to be giving the government and large corporations exactly what they seem to want (the power to do anything).

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          “The most disturbing thing about that story was what one of the people standing in the line reportedly said “would you rather the plane blew up?” That kind of logic hurts my brain.”

          Yes indeed. Would I rather accept a risk of being involved in a terrorist hijacking on the same scale as the risk of taking a meteor to my head when stepping out of doors rather than allowing some closet TSA pervert to feel up my girlfriend?

          You know what, I’d take that risk.

          Can you even quantify the courage – or lack of it – in any person, male or female, who willingly allows what is essentially a public groping on a routine basis based on fear of odds even more far-fetched than the odds you’ll get struck by a falling piece of sky.

          I keep envisioning a scene where a bunch of victims claim they were robbed, raped, or stolen from with the words “Officer, he threatened to sneeze on me and expose me to the risk of pneumonia! What other choice did I have but to undress and hand over my wallet?”

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          there’s not one single non-pirate who doesn’t feel the copyright industry is overreaching badly.

          honestly, I can’t find any of those. Every person, even people that I didn’t expect it of, that I spoke to about piracy, and filesharing, every single person was invariably a filthy pirate, like me. Christians, police officers, soccer moms, every one of them had some involvement with piracy in some manner or other. Admittedly, this is my own subjective circle, but I’m really wondering

          …I wonder where all these non-pirates are. The Amish?

        • MadAsASnake

          There are a couple of islands in the Andamans that have not been seriously contacted – must be them, and some Amazon indians…

      • Romet6

        Hah, you’re making a great point with this!

        Sadly, there is still a lot of people who do believe and invest in lottery, despite the fact that they are more likely to die in a car crash on their way to buy the ticket than they are to actually get a big win.

  • ScrewEwe2

    “Man Down is available of iTunes for $2.39 (US$2.00) and Tonight Tonight at $1.79 (US$1.50).” For 128kbps mp3′s? What a total ripoff iTunes is.

    “When this song was downloaded to my computer, a whole uTorrent program downloaded onto my computer…” Ohhh, well that makes perfect sense. She should be using iTunes I guess.

    $616.57 “dumb tax”?, or $616.57 “educational expense”.

    • 2013sUxAlready

      Cool now they can buy RIANZ some toilet paper to wipe their ass with. Probably half a months worth of TP.

      iTunes is shit anyway unless you own a i*

    • Ophelia Millais

      I was confounded by that uTorrent claim as well.

      As for iTunes being a rip-off, most of us here probably agree. The industry would argue, though, that iTunes users are a pretty broad cross-section of society, as far as their means; it’s not like the iTunes Store’s prices are set so high that only the uber-rich shop there. For popular songs, the store does great business, indicating that people are generally willing to pay the price asked. The lossy format, for most people, is irrelevant; they either don’t care, or just consider the store’s convenience as worth the trade-off. So I do understand the industry’s argument that in the “fair market”, the song is “worth” the price tag they’ve put on it.

      Where this theory breaks down is in that the redistribution of unauthorized copies doesn’t adversely affect their ability to charge that price at all. The black market’s already there; they’re already competing with it, and they’re quite successful at it. That is, the current price reflects what they can and do charge despite the flourishing peer-to-peer trade. Further, it’s not at all certain that if that trade didn’t exist, they’d be able to charge any more than they do; instead, it seems that the fair-market price—i.e. what they could charge if there were no black market—is right about where it is, not higher.

      And then there’s this woman’s implausible culpability in creating the black market. Not only was the market already there, but the song was already there; that’s where she got it from. And for such a popular song, she could’ve left uTorrent running for months and her contribution to the black market’s “inventory” would still have been effectively nil, a mere drop in the ocean. She could’ve not uploaded at all, and had the same infinitesimal effect on the availability of the content via BitTorrent. Even if the black market, as a whole, does adversely affect the fair market value of the work, her personal liability is minimal.

      Unfortunately people don’t think to raise these arguments when they are first accused, and the way courts work, you have to make these kind of arguments up front. Even then, they can be cast aside, to the extent that the law says what it says; “take it up with the legislature.” But good luck trying to get your elected officials to stop trying to make an example of file-sharers as a deterrent.

    • PiratePuppy

      I don’t know how iTunes operates wherever you are, but their files are 256kb/sec AAC m4a files. And while I like iTunes, I would *definitely* not pay over 2 dollars for a Rihanna song; her music ain’t worth that much to me.

  • tiger97a

    i say lets start shearing more and more music by just making a copy and give it to a friend and that friend has to give it to two people and then they have each to give it to two people and really hit them hard and no way to stop or catch you then

    • Ophelia Millais

      Hmm, well, sorry to rain on your parade, but I get the impression that people who are interested in sharing already share what they can, and people who are interested in buying already buy what they can. The only thing that could really increase the sharing is to make it more convenient and to raise awareness of it as an option.

      But even then, you’re up against the fact that most people nowadays don’t even want to possess actual files, and they don’t really care about formats, they just want to hear the music. If you want to kick the industry, set up a convenient, on-demand music streaming service, and make it better than what’s already out there. Good luck keeping it in business, though.

      • Romet6

        I went to Netflix to sign up but for whatever reason it’s not available in my country. Really, you can’t set up a simple PayPal payment system?

        It’s not that difficult to make the content easily available worldwide.They refuse to take our money and cry about not getting money from us.

  • 2013sUxAlready

    So … where are all the other “pirates”? When they could single out one torrent user over a year why isn’t there more evidence and more infringers in court? This shit is pointless and only serves to destroy lives and burn taxpayers money. It does not scare the rest of the crowd. It does not lead to better prizing nor better service. It sure as hell does not compensate the artist in any way. So why the fuck is RIANZ even going after 2 files?

    • Scary_Devil_Monastery

      They are going after the odd single person every now and then simply so they can show some result.

      Same reason as to why HADOPI has managed to penalize roughly a dozen filesharers after several years of operation.

      Of course, to desperate pro-copyright trolls such as “Anon” and “bobmail”, the fact that many years of effort and untold sums of money have been sunk in catching a dozen pirates the world over is enough to send them into paroxysms of joy and pronounce doom upon all the hundreds of millions of pirates who have no reason to worry.

      Now, in any other context and to anyone else the fact that the media corporations must have spent more than a million dollars for every pirate “caught” would seem like a total loss.

      That, of course, is the reason they are desperately trying to pass the cost to taxpayers instead.

      • MadAsASnake

        If they went after many, they would end up with too many flagrantly absurd convictions, and people (especially the French) would demand its removal. Keeping it token avoids such widespread objection. Avoids every other point to, of course.

  • MenkFunk

    Lack of evidence but guilty anyways? Seriously?

    urAnon.tk

  • Edgar

    Well, I can see that Rihanna will be getting that new pool to go with that mansion…. ohhh wait they don’t cost 600 dollars do they? As for these copyright lovers, let me educate you a bit, about the music industry, while I am not a musician myself, I have many friends whom are upcoming new artists, they make nada through cds etc, same with larger artists, their basic pay comes from doing gigs. The only people who are losing due to the internet are the ‘fat cats’ sitting behind their fancy tables. You may call me being liberal or what not, but the fact is musicians are constantly on tour, especially big names, the albums are all about publicity and assuming they are good, people actually do buy their cds. Same with movies, if their is a decent one worth watching we would line up at the cinemas to watch it.

    Now moving on to this silly case, I would have defended the accused, if I hadn’t noticed how stupid she was to give out a confession or to even get caught. This law has been in New Zealand for some time and by the time she got the first or second warning, she could have at least gotten a hint. Plus I do believe you can outright deny having knowledge of either downloads (assuming you don’t confess before hand). And during the introduction of this law, their was a talk of fines from 5,000 to 30,000 dollars (Probably inaccurate figures) however this goes to show what a waste of time and waste of public money this whole shamble of a law is.

    • Romet6

      Yes, the warnings pretty much tell the pirate to look for a safer source for their files and/or to cover their tracks better.

      However, she did say that the first two warnings were about the one single file that she pirated and that she had nothing to do with the other file. That’s not a difficult situation to get into for a regular person who doesn’t have much experience with computers, she was just naive enough to think that these evil creatures care about her lack of malicious intent or that she only downloaded one file. The third warning could just have been a mistake by the system because apparently it isn’t very reliable.

      • FinalApokylypse

        Agree 100%. She probably typically buys CD’s and only downloads on the very rare occasion when you look at her situation. The kind of people who should not be punished at all unfortunately.

        • ScrewEwe2

          Seems like the noobs that get caught the most are the ones torrenting the latest pop and hip hop crap. In 14 years of P2P/torrenting I’ve never had a warning email or letter.

        • http://www.facebook.com/rafacod Rafael Cordeiro

          well, bad thing courts dont consider case to case history, at least not in positive way, which would create a situation something like “oh its just one song, she is not a pirate”. Actually what comes up is “she pirated” and thats it.

          I think VPN should be enforced by all players in the torrent scene

        • MadAsASnake

          RIANZ seems to have been saying she must have been a major pirate because she had a BitTorrent client. If that was the case why did they not detect it? It is more likele she is a casual / occasional torrenter who has now been alienated from paying for life

  • Shuffle

    Musicians and bands in general really dont make much money from album sales. The real money maker for them is from eitgher getting a guaranteed amount to perform a series of concert tours ( Rolling stones, Van Halen etc ect ) and the other way the musicians and bands make money is through their merchandise sales at the concerts… Thats where the money really is for anyone touring, not album sales. While their are bands mucsicians who make money from album sales, the real cash comes from the touring.

  • Ray Carroll

    If you ever talk to a lawyer about admitting guilt to something, they will tell you to never admit to anything. Unfortunate they try an intimidate you into doing so to make their case easier. Let your attorney decide your course of action, remember.. if you cant afford one, one will be appointed. Make it as hard and costly on them as possible.

    • Romet6

      “You have the right to remain silent, so shut the f**k up, okay? You have the right to an attorney. If you can’t afford an attorney, we’ll provide you with the dumbest f**king lawyer on earth. If you get Johnnie Cochran, I’ll kill ya!”

      • Ray Carroll

        Grow up..Worthless piece of shit.

        • Romet6

          Calm down, this was a quote from Lethal Weapon 4 and my opinion on how good legal representation you may expect. I’m not sure how distrusting the legal system makes me what you called me.

        • Ray Carroll

          Sorry..I get attack a lot, from probably people that are paid to irritate the users here. I take it all back. I feel bad now.

        • Romet6

          No problem, I can understand how this could have been misunderstood, although you shouldn’t expect a lot of pro-copyright responses in here. The majority of us support sharing.

        • Ray Carroll

          You would think so, but some of the replies are so ignorance and mean to the point where you think know fool gos to TorrentFreak just to harass people so it makes me wonder if their paid to just disrupt the process of discussion between file-sharers. I wouldn’t put it passed them. TorrentFreak is high on their list. Peace my friend..Once again sorry, I didn’t see the movie.

        • Scary_Devil_Monastery

          Astroturfing is a fact of life.

          However, the good thing about the people who try to astroturf pirates is that for good and valid reason they have to lie outrageously to make their case.

          Or obfuscate the issue until it disappears in legal details. You may want to read up on how SoundnuoS does it around here.

          In general if the person you argue with presents you a brilliant wordwall based on a blatantly false assumption they are eager to skip discussion of, you know you have a troll on the hook.

        • Ray Carroll

          Absolutely.. I like the “Brilliant Wordwall” term you use, that describes it best. Its either a malevolent tirade or an exquisite journalistic piece that’s so well written, yet completely misses the global benefit of file-sharing. I always wonder, what would the world be like if you had Copyright Goons standing at all the doors of the ancient libraries of the past.

        • MadAsASnake

          Funny SundnouS hasnt appeared on this thread…

        • SoundnuoS

          Here now.

        • SoundnuoS

          You might want to take responsibility for your inability to actually refute my arguments instead of bullshitting.

  • djb

    ahahahahahahahhahahah HAHAHAHAHAHAH LULZ, EPIC FAIL rianz!!

  • ICU812

    It was expected to pour but it only RAINZ.

  • Brett Cooper

    And the songs are free on youtube for anyone.
    I hope the USA copyright police help protect NZ copyright in the USA as well as the Protect the USA rights in NZ.

    It’s funny that RIANZ is defending a USA client, when the RIANZ should be defending NZ copyright in NZ (there role).

  • JG

    ” since there is a “statutory presumption” that each incidence of file-sharing alleged in an infringement notice constitutes an actual infringement of copyright”

    So in other words, if RIANZ (or in my case the RIAA) accuse me of downloading a song, I’m automatically guilty of said act… RIGHT….. This is precedent that needs to be stopped….

    I’d love to see the IT guy from the previous posting (in regards to the University of Illinois) being brought out as a witness for the defense. “According to the email we received from the prosecution, the alleged downloading occurred at 12:38pm on Tuesday January 29th. However, as you can see from the network activity logs for the IP address in question, the only active connections any where near that time were to Facebook, Spotify, AIM & Lexus Nexus. No evidence of any use of a VPN or any other anti-surveillance countermeasures. This is the case with about 10% of the alleged reports we receive.”.

    I’m not trying to say everyone caught downloading is wrongfully accused & that those who do break the law shouldn’t be punished…. Just that I don’t think we should automatically assume guilt just because they say so. I’d like to think our legal system has evolved somewhat since the Salem Mass witch hunts… TorrentFreak & other similar sites have helped to show that MAFIAA agents are not 100% infallible. So why does our legal system continue to treat them as such?

    • MadAsASnake

      Presumption of guilt is necessary for these schemes as they have no satisfactory evidence. It is conversely very difficult to prove the positive ones – it has taken a year of this for RIANZ to raise about a dozen cases – more likely to be thrown out than not, even with this reversal of the burden of proof.

  • ScrewEwe2

    Wow, Bob needs to download a pirated copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People”.

    • Wallace

      People BEGGED him to comment. He’s just making his fans happy.

      • MadAsASnake

        Trolls don’t seem to have a lot to say on this one. Clearly they need to see someones life ruined by crazy sentences to celebrate

  • Pingback: First Kiwi File-Sharer Guilty, But Lack of Evidence Kills Large Fines « Geekpolitic : on Freedom, Privacy and Security

  • Romet6

    $500 dollars when she could have just listened/downloaded it at Youtube?

  • Taxpayer Funded

    Andddd…We have more taxpayers money going to Bullshit.

  • ferrit

    ferrit

  • comingupforblair

    I find long legged trannies attractive!!! Does that make me gay?

  • Romet6

    This story needs that picture of The Joker burning money.

    He should also be holding the $600 in his hands and the caption should say “It was all worth it!” or perhaps the “Why so serious?” line would work here as well, to match the complete lack of sanity and reason that these evil people display.

  • kachan64

    Is this how Megaupload got a warning?

  • Pingback: Volunteer Pirate Crew Gives Mega Its Own Search Engine | Ezspk Tech

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  • Jon

    What is a KIWI anyway??

    • platyourpus

      New Zealander = Kiwi
      Australian = Aussie
      UK = Brit
      American = Yank

  • Pingback: New Zealand penalises first file sharer

  • Pingback: Volunteer Pirate Crew Gives Mega Its Own Search EngineTechNewsWorld | Top Technology News

  • Pingback: The First Fine Under the New Copyright Law Has Been Given | Mark B's Blog

  • eattherich

    I’d love to know how they’d stop a Saudi oil sheik from downloading, and uploading whatever they wanted… :)

    Simply put, enforcement of copyright laws is Tyrannical plain and simple because it relies on the principle of “I have more money than you” to be a deterrent.

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

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