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Furious Copyright Holder Harasses Torrent Site Admins

Every day copyright holders send thousands of DMCA takedown requests to various torrent site owners. These notices are usually quite formal and polite, and nearly all torrent sites remove the mentioned torrents swiftly. However, some copyright holders can’t hide their anger and turn the takedown request into a hostile rant.

Normally the issuing of a DMCA takedown request would hardly be newsworthy event, but every year a few surface that are worth mentioning. The Pirate Bay, for example, have published some of their most notable conversations with copyright holders on their site.

These exchanges often started off politely but later turned into an email fight when it became clear that The Pirate Bay didn’t intend on removing any torrents from their site. However, some rights holders are furious from the start and don’t even have to be triggered by such takedown refusals.

One such copyright holder, Paul Harris from ReverbXL, couldn’t hide his frustration when he harassed several torrent site admins. In his email, Harris holds the admins responsible for the illegal downloading that occurs though their site, and warns them about the consequences of their actions.

“You won’t win this fight. And not because the big mean corporate world will beat you, because you’ll end up as an insignificant foot note in history,” Harris writes.

Harris’ full rant is pasted below, for your consideration.

Paul Harris wrote:

Hi there webmaster. We are a music publisher and your web spiders are linking to songs by TURIN BRAKES, who we publish. We have not given permission to be distributed.

Please remove all links. I would appreciate it if you could monitor your service and ensure that NO copyrighted material is linked in it. If you do not have the technology to ensure this, then I advise you to invest in it before you are closed down or forced to remove all links. May I draw your attention to this recent ruling.

Mininova. Was the biggest, and the most uncooperative, now the humblest, and the most co-operative. You will be the same. Maybe it would be best to remove the links yourself?

From a moral standpoint, you are not only hurting the music industry but also the writers and the artists involved. Think about it, please. There are plenty of legal alternatives now where people who do not want to buy music can listen. But the contributors deserve to be paid.

Think about it. It’s like a company using their fleet of white vans to move other people’s stolen goods around – no you haven’t done the actual stealing, but you are facilitating the crime!

I work my balls off trying to make a living in music – I’m not some jerk off in a suit. Nor are my artists. But you cast us as such whilst knowing nothing of the reality.

If you are so brave, so keen to take a swipe at the corporate world, why don’t you go and picket Shell, Nike, HSBC, any number of industries who actually ARE immoral. But you won’t, because your moral stand point is totally warped. I can’t wait to see you go down. You won’t win this fight. And not because the big mean corporate world will beat you, because you’ll end up as an insignificant foot note in history.

Thanks very much.

P

Although we can sympathize with Harris somewhat, this is definitely not the best way to get links to content removed from a torrent site. In the case of Turin Brakes, a little patience might have gone a very long way since there are only a handful of torrents on public trackers so the job would’ve been pretty easy.

Despite the aggressive approach, most torrent site operators are still willing to cooperate and remove the associated torrent files. After a quick search though, Google turns up as many links as most public search engines. Whether they would respond favorably to an email like this is up for debate.

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  • C

    Welp, here’s another band I won’t bother to support. And a torrent that will likely be mirrored all over the net very shortly.

  • Hangman

    Doesn’t sound that aggressive, it’s just stupid.

  • Oldies

    Wow, two TPB torrents show an upload year of 2007. Trying to get your client noticed much?

    I suggest posting torrent or magnet links and then emailing them to this guy so he has to send 100,000+ takedown notices.

  • Anonymous

    “…think about it.”

    apparently this advice is not followed by the author Harris.

  • Hangman

    lol exactly.

  • Fozzy Bear

    myspace page so you can leave them a message: http://www.myspace.com/turinbrakes

  • Sasha

    This is a publicity stunt and nothing else. Now, those who are curious, will go and find out what all the fuzz is about and download these songs/albums.

  • Fozzy Bear

    Oh yea, I suppose you can register and post on their forums too and let them know what a jackass this guy is and how bad he makes them look.

    http://forums.turinbrakes.com/

  • Bullzeye
  • Anonymous

    *throws paul in the dumpster with reason/neo/and shill friends*

  • jack

    hmph, music was ok actually. Too bad they are managed by a complete idiot.

    J.

  • Virotelisa

    “I work my balls off trying to make a living in music – I’m not some jerk off in a suit.”

    I believe him on the suit part. I might believe him on the “Working my balls off”. But i don’t believe the jerk part.

    If it was less of a rant i might feel sympathy for the man. Personally i buy music when i like it, which means not every download from me equals a sale. Yet i also discovered some bands trough torrents because i could download their entire collection instead of just one or two hit and miss numbers.

    But yet, in the eyes of the music executives im still a filthy thief because i don’t pay for every track. To hell with the added profits from discovering new genres. Crackdown and control.

    But i will certainly enjoy going trough the labels artist selection and place them on my buy blacklist, next to Sony, Warner and EA. Congrats. You might just have lost yourself a sale!

  • Spampolice

    All my emails to the listed email addresses comes back as spam by their mail servers. I wanted to let the nice folks at rebelxl know about the free publicity they are getting from this article. :(

  • Ad

    From memory, Mininova was always quite agreeable to copyright takedown requests. Possibly he’s confusing them with TPB. Additionally, he seems to be confused as to the jurisdiction of the case he refers to, unless he’s only contacting torrent sites in the Netherlands.

  • VikingThrust

    seeding.. thanks for the letter of encouragement.

  • LOLCATS
  • Anonymous

    ohh someone dared to disagree with you theiving stance…Oh didn’t care before but now you’ll pirtae them to death…and you call him a complete idiot.

  • mined.se

    hurlness

  • nah in bmore

    That particular TKD Req wasnt too bad. a bit proselytizing…but all in all…I find it reasonable.

    Of course, he also got some spotlight for his band in this….

  • The Coyote

    That’s funny this email reminds me that I didn’t buy a CD for quite a long time… Since I started traveling actually, dragging a CDs collection is not an option.
    I also stopped going to concerts and listening to music since I stopped downloading.

    I probably simply got bored… or maybe there’s nothing I like anymore. It’s sad.

  • no

    How are Shell and Nike any less “moral” than music labels? At least they make an actual product that you can actually buy and sell. You can’t make copies of oil or shoes (well, I guess you could copy shoes and pirate organizations do that and sell them as legitimate Nike shoes — but that’s still a physical actual real product).

  • Blue Sunflower

    You’re stealing their work. He’s allowed to be pissed. Take their stuff off the site.

  • kelly

    the Paul Harris’s Interests out of his myspace that kinda explains his letter style:

    “I like ENTOURAGE in fact I want to be Ari Gold.”

  • del system32
  • Anonymous

    “If you are so brave, so keen to take a swipe at the corporate world, why don’t you go and picket Shell, Nike, HSBC, any number of industries who actually ARE immoral.”

    That will hopefully be a nice 9am phonecall from someones’ lawyers.

  • hms-one

    monopoly ownership of radio, and the general decline associated with it, is another of the many factors that has led to the rise of file-sharing as a means of discovering new music. Without ‘piracy’ and internet radio the music industry(especially small labels like this ranter’s) would be much worse off.

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  • Anonymous

    Just send this e-amil to management@reverbxl.com

    Paul Harris recently wrote a rather insulting letter to several torrent site admins. In regards to this you should probably do a bit of reality check. You’re music isn’t ground breaking or catchy enough to really spread on its own. And your marketing isn’t that good because I, and everyone I’ve talked to about it here in the states, have never heard of you before. A bit of buzz from downloads could help to significantly increase awareness and market share for you. But insulting music fans is not the way to go. I will be boycotting any artist on your label until Paul Harris announces an official apology.

  • Yo

    So some dude who uses the “royal we”
    to claim to be, but not offer any proof, a publisher of some music band is pissed because some site is linking (not hosting, not distributing)to files that are copyrighted by him (no proof again) and wants the admin to remove the links?

    This sounds like spam if nothing else!
    All his other ramblings would indicate that he is also under influence of a controlled substance..

  • Crash

    Haha! Awesome! Does this guy write his own material?

  • John

    So now they finally show their true face. Haha I was expecting something like this…

  • Ninja

    hahahahaha Fail!

  • Anonymous

    I wonder if there is a way to get a list of albums from them, so that i can avoid them completely…

  • Spaniard

    He should have attached this photo of his to the email:

    http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=31254539&albumID=213963&imageID=7256917

    Very appropriate!

  • Dadvertiser

    It seems the music “industry” is learning on how to advertise their artists using p2p. This is all I can see from that email :

    “please make some free publicity about me and my clients”

  • a.t. baby

    Well, I download music and videos all the time so im no angel. I like his letter, with the exception of the mininova part. Regardless, the artist, movie producers, etc are still making large amounts of money. People have been bootlegging since the dawn of time. For example, someone in hong kong to ripping off nike shoes gets shut down, another ripper in korea will begin. especially in todays economic times, u think im going to pay 16.99 for a cd? Yea i might purchase a few tracks on itunes, but dont tell us we are immoral. I wonder how much money the guy complaining makes compared to us.

  • pirateboi

    love it. “YOU WILL DO THE SAME”

  • Thomas Jefferson

    suprisingly, he will see a short increase in sales, attritutable to this ‘rant’

  • no more

    Come on.. those guys are lucky they’re being shared.

    Douchebagery

  • Anonymous

    @21

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  • ArcMatriel

    That was a pretty exciting read, I guess.

  • Anon
  • Ranter

    When will people realize that the majority of file sharers DON’T SELL THE MATERIAL. How can someone possibly compare this with Nike shoe “counterfeiting” when those actually PROFIT from fooling the public into believing they’re buying Nike products. That is immoral, I agree. It’s counterfeiting.

    BUT FILE SHARERS DON’T FREAKING SELL IT, THEY DON’T PROFIT FROM IT, AND MOST OF ALL, THEY DON’T CLAIM IT’S THEIRS. FOR FRIGGS’S SAKE.

    /rant

  • Rob

    @22
    You fool, so vibrating molecules should have a price tag?
    Yet again no-one actually wants to listen just order people about. Having links isn’t a crime. I like the way he says “think about it” sorry but my brain cells are far to advance to be wasted on even listening to your music let alone actually thinking about your views. Oh no is your wallet empty? Perhaps produce bands that make great music and have good concerts. Even take that are still raking in the cash due to their concerts and public following. Make a band that people will actually think “hey what a great band, they deserve OUR HARD EARNED £££” not go “who the hell are these guys, oh well they mite be worth the spare bandwidth”. Until you THINK about this simple fact and stop producing bands with at best one ok song that you have to buy an album to get at a tenner in a recession. You are the people who need an education and judging by your myspace page you should consider doing summin other that sharpening knives to enhance your understanding of a situation that not only have you created but are still fuelling with your letters. I really hate these preachy people, understand the technology and the people using it before you slander us because that only alienates us further.

  • Tomas

    At footnote in history. What a cliche.

    I think the piracy “problem” is much too big a thing to be just a footnote. After all, if we are to believe what we hear then I’ll be telling me grandchildren music used to be controlled by big corporations and I was part of the movement that ended them.

    Of course that won’t happen, because the music crops are full of shit and will still be doing the same thing by the time I have grandchildren.

  • Tomas

    Music crops. You grow them on a farm you know.

    I meant music corps…

  • Johnny Bravo

    Hey indie film makers check this out, you might learn from this!!!

    Want to know how to get your ultra-low budget film that was produced on pocket change budget to become popular?

    Tell torrent site admins not to allow downloads of your ridiculously lame movies.

    This will create a spark among the file sharing community which will make them really want to download it even more.

    Here’s an example:
    Street Trash – Poor sales, poor rentals, poor marketing.
    How many times have you seen this film laying at the bottom of the bin at Walmart?
    But the moment that Synapse Films told admins at torrent sites not to distribute it……………..then guess what?

    EVERYONE WANTED TO DOWNLOAD IT!!!!
    Brilliant strategy eh?

  • Bubblenuts Gomer

    There’s a pizza pocket in my pants aching to me eaten.

    NOM NOM NOM

  • Anonymous

    LMAO @ this pic http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=31254539&albumID=213963&imageID=7256917

    P@P is great. I discovered Tatu with P2P. Yeah I’ve D/L all of their albulms but because I truly enjoy there musice I BOUGHT the cd’s. Why would I pay for something I don’t like. Same goes for movies I d/l em and if I like’em I’ll buy the blu-ray. Why pay for shit you don’t like.

  • Ghostofchris

    Downloaded. Didn’t Listen to it. Seeding it.

  • dR435T4

    whats wrong with these guys? don’t they know by now that they are shooting themselves in the foot? this is only gonna get worse for him! you cannot take down a well numbered world-wide pirate community by force, the sooner these retards get that the sooner everyone will come to terms.

  • dR435T4

    it makes me wonder if they just want the press coverage so that more people would download their crap in an effort to boost sales? i mean wtf how long has this war been goin on?

  • klitoratii

    hahaha wot a douchebag. i feel sorry for turin brakes, i bet they really wanted some a-hole like this representing their copyrights and attacking individuals in their name. probably just lost so many fans and also got their music pasted EVERYWHERE. Nice one bruvva!!

  • djnforce9

    I too have never even heard of this guy nor Turin Brakes until reading this.

    I can only imagine people going right now to download Turin-Brakes stuff and buying an album if they like it (unless of course you refuse out of spite of the label even though the artist isn’t responsible for his words).

    So if those torrents are taken down, how do people even find out about these artists? It’s not like someone is going to go into a CD store and just buy it at random. CD stores suck. They don’t even let you preview the discs before buying it (or limit you to very very few per visit).

  • Anonymous

    @53

    Right on bro. Can’t buy anything without learning about it first.

  • Anonymous

    Hell, at least this guy spoke as if he were a man. He was honest, and he does deserve some credit for that. Personally, it pisses me off when these people approach you like kiss-asses, and then proceed to make dicks out of themselves.

  • knux

    @53

    Yup, the problem is one of marketing, not ethics. If someone can’t get their name out the door without doing some stunt like this, then they have failed monumentally. The internet is a big place, but plenty of Indie, Euro and *gasp* Indie Euro bands have made a name for themselves as quality bands that actually care. Surprisingly enough, most of them support the P2P solution *gasp AGAIN*…

    It is a bit interesting that this guy thinks his music is gonna dry up all revenue. How much money does this guy think he would make without piracy? It’s a fairly unknown band (until now) and is pretty damn niche. It blows me away at how ignorant these people are when it comes to getting their name out there. If you aren’t going to do it properly, then let the pirates do it for you, simple as that. And who says, “I work my balls off” in a company letter? Honestly, grow up dude!

  • D-DoubleU-Eye-G-H-T Shrute

    whenever im about to do something, i think… would a idiot do that, and if they would, i do not do that thing. – Dwight Shrute

  • Unauthorized Content Consumer

    Oh nice…Harris is slandering Shell, Nike and HSBC. I sure hope those corporations don’t receive the forwarded e-mails to their legal departments. ;)

    Anyways, I would’ve responded by politely telling Harris to change his business model to include today’s technology. I’d also ask him to quit exploiting and ripping off artists, and maybe he should get a real job like the rest of us. We all work hard for our money, and what does he do? He has plenty of time to send off stupid e-mails all day while his bank account gets filled up with royalty payments from his exploitation of artists.

    Meh. xD

  • Unauthorized Content Consumer

    BTW, I’m downloaded unauthorized content from this guys “label” and now I’m shamelessly sharing without their express written consent off of an unknowing neighbours unsecured wireless router.

    Why do we pirate? Because it’s FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xD

  • lol

    HEY!

    Think about it…

  • Anonymous

    Here’s a list of all the artists signed by ReverbXL:

    APOLLO 440
    ARET
    ART BRUT
    BEN’S BROTHER
    THE BLUESKINS
    TERRY CALLIER
    JOE CANG
    CIRCLESOUND
    DON E
    NICK HALL
    SAM ISAAC
    LAST GANG
    MARTHA REDBONE
    RICHARD LOBB AND THE SWEAT BAND
    REAL
    FIONN REGAN
    PLUMP DJ’S
    ROACHFORD
    SHADY BARD
    SIOUXSIE SIOUX & BUDGIE
    SUV
    TURIN BRAKES
    ANTHONEY WRIGHT

    I just did a torrent search for every single one of them. And you know what? Filesharers won’t touch their music with a ten foot pole.

    Seriously, alot of them don’t even have torrents I can find. Most of the ones that do are showing 0 seeders and 0 leechers. The few that actually are getting their music fileshared have an average of ONE leecher.

    I understand why Paul Harris is so angry about people downloading Turin Brakes’ music, though.

    After all, they’re RebelXL’s most pirated band. Why, right now SIX leechers downloading their latest album right now. SIX! OH THE HUMANITY!!

    Okay. So either Paul Harris is on drugs, or his rant is a desperate attempt at generating free publicity for his obscure label and its roster of sadsack artists who fail so hard they literally can’t even get their music pirated.

    It’s like he’s been taking lessons from Indiana Gregg.

  • SmilingCat

    Hope this letter gets more publicity to the unheard bands.

  • Anonymous

    Rant backfire incoming. Seriously, if you want people to give you money for your music you should tell them to come to the concerts and stuff, people buy CDs at concerts if they like the band ’cause they heard the music and then they want a copy. Blind buying music is kind of scary anyway. I don’t really torrent the big name band s ’cause I like indie music that nobody’s heard of that the artists actually deserve my money, I don’t like too many bigshot bands anyway. Haven’t bought a full album on iTunes since Viva La Vida by Coldplay.

  • Cerberus

    @ 61 Jan 07, 2010 at 07:03 by Anonymous
    I never heard anyone of them, and I don’t think I care.

  • Pyr@

    I agree with #53 and #56

    I wonder what the band has to say about all of this?

    If I were a member/part of the band I would be happy that my music is getting out, one way or another, pirated or not, because, OBVIOUSLY, since NOBODY, ANYWHERE, has ever heard of them, their MANAGER BLOWS at his job.

    That’s what happens when a bands manager does more drugs than the band…

    Sit down and shut up Paul Harris, be happy that we pirates are doing your job for you because, as I have previously stated, you suck at your job.

  • Reality

    I especailly like his van analogy.

    Using that logic the manufacturers & suppliers of computer monitors, video cards, keyboards, mice, motherboards, network cards, hard drivers, ethernet cables and memory are guilty of facilitating crime too!

  • reality

    1% own 90% of the worlds resources the world is not fair get over it.

  • Anonymous

    I work my balls off trying to make a living in music – I’m not some jerk off in a suit.

    Well maybe you should be a jerk in a suit working in a office cubicle for a company that produces CD-s that my friend uses to distribute his music, what he makes on his laptop out of his free time and doesnt get paid for it. Then you can happily say that you are making living out of music. :)

  • Mr.Afghanistan

    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !
    F*CK OFF Paul Harris !

    how is that now ?
    I wish i had a site and you E-mailed me.

    You would get a big: F**K OFF !!!

  • \\.neo.styles|sSG

    Judging, by the self righteous backlash, I doubt anyone here has a job and knows what it is like to try and earn money from their own work.

    This is their music not yours. You don’t have a god given right to it. How is that complicated?

  • Mirage

    They call us Immoral?

    They sue people for millions for downloading a few songs, knowing full well that they will be wrecking that persons life for some little 1′s and 0′s that really have no intrinsic value.

    If we want to support an artist, then we’ll buy their cd’s and go to their concerts.

  • jon7272

    where can we download this crap off him lol find me you bastards on my vpn hahaha

  • Pdawg

    This guy definately wanted this to happen. The best thing to do in this situation is to agree with his request and delete the torrent and allow his artist to fall once again into obscurity.

  • Anonymous

    i loled

  • Cirax

    @ ++ I agree with #53 and #56

    I wonder what the band has to say about all of this?

    If I were a member/part of the band I would be happy that my music is getting out, one way or another, pirated or not, because, OBVIOUSLY, since NOBODY, ANYWHERE, has ever heard of them, their MANAGER BLOWS at his job.

    That’s what happens when a bands manager does more drugs than the band…

    Sit down and shut up Paul Harris, be happy that we pirates are doing your job for you because, as I have previously stated, you suck at your job.

    As much as they want to come after you, I also have never heard of these bands and I an now wondering about them. I would encourage all to share because really this is a publicity stunt it seems anyway. It was said ”

    61 Jan 07, 2010 at 07:03 by Anonymous

    Here’s a list of all the artists signed by ReverbXL:

    APOLLO 440
    ARET
    ART BRUT
    BEN’S BROTHER
    THE BLUESKINS
    TERRY CALLIER
    JOE CANG
    CIRCLESOUND
    DON E
    NICK HALL
    SAM ISAAC
    LAST GANG
    MARTHA REDBONE
    RICHARD LOBB AND THE SWEAT BAND
    REAL
    FIONN REGAN
    PLUMP DJ’S
    ROACHFORD
    SHADY BARD
    SIOUXSIE SIOUX & BUDGIE
    SUV
    TURIN BRAKES
    ANTHONEY WRIGHT

    I just did a torrent search for every single one of them. And you know what? Filesharers won’t touch their music with a ten foot pole.

    Seriously, alot of them don’t even have torrents I can find. Most of the ones that do are showing 0 seeders and 0 leechers. The few that actually are getting their music fileshared have an average of ONE leecher.

    I understand why Paul Harris is so angry about people downloading Turin Brakes’ music, though.

    After all, they’re RebelXL’s most pirated band. Why, right now SIX leechers downloading their latest album right now. SIX! OH THE HUMANITY!!

    Okay. So either Paul Harris is on drugs, or his rant is a desperate attempt at generating free publicity for his obscure label and its roster of sadsack artists who fail so hard they literally can’t even get their music pirated.

    It’s like he’s been taking lessons from Indiana Gregg.

    So since I and many other people may actually like the artist and want to support em, this “sue em blah blah” campaign is actually censorship over what they want us to hear about but strange that now that we hear about the maybe great music we want to check it out. If its so great, perhapse lets share and see. As always, try to pay the artist directly. I have just today got another great artist and am about to put ed2k and torrent links up. Somebody has to do it for those that can’t and to get these bands out there.

  • Anonymous

    Be sure to up to all sites/ file share protocols.

  • Anonymous

    Someone should make a peerguardian against those artists.

    Everytime you go to a page with some bonehead singer it should be blocked and see their numbers fall dramatically.

    I say give it to them.

    All of it. obscurity is a beautiful thing.

  • Rasta88

    lol i thought it was the magician paul harris at first

  • BecauseIwasToldNotTo

    Turin Brakes – Dark On Fire

    Will seed for one year! :-)

  • talorthain

    Who are these groups. I have not heard of any of them and certainly never hear their music on Radio.. I drive a lot for my job.

    TPB, I think you should, as suggested send the nice letter to those companies listed in it e.g. NIKE etc.

    It will make nice reading to see what multi billion dollar companies do to a music manager with a list of bands 90% of the world hasnt heard of / dont care about.

  • Snowflake

    While writing that letter, he lost valuable time in which he could have made profits. But then, the last part is somehow really profound. I would never ever have thought of it before. Thank you, Paul Harris.

  • Think about it

    @ 60 Jan 07, 2010 at 06:50 by lol

    Hey! back at ya:)
    ——————————–
    Not only did this guy make himself liable, but called the site warped and that they would just be a footnote in history. BTW please remove links! WTF?

    Figures that reasoned tard/Anonymous would approve.

  • Cujo

    QUOTE “Mininova. Was the biggest, and the most uncooperative, now the humblest, and the most co-operative”

    http://www.monova.org/ aka Mininova ;)

    the guy has got to get his facts straight :D

  • TurinBroke
  • ghucha

    .fuck off paul harris

    …………./´¯/)…………(\¯`\
    …………/….//…………..\\….\
    ………../….//…………….\\….\
    …../´¯/…./´¯\………../¯`\….\¯`\
    .././…/…./…./.|_……_|.\….\….\…\.\
    (..(….(….(…./.)..)……(..(.\….)….)….)
    .\…………….\/…/….\…\/……………./
    ..\…………….. /……..\………………/
    ….\…………..(…………)…………../

  • AnarchyNow

    “From a moral standpoint…” ah ah ah capitalist arsonists have a moral now? what a bullshit!
    “Artists” nowadays are 99% worse than nazi capitalist whores who wants more & more money out of thin air.
    ART IS FREE, no “industry” is making real art, only a pile of shitty canned-products to suck you bank-account dry

  • Stefing

    Harris actually comes across far better than Bono, who is widely and correctly regarded as somewhat of a massive tool.

  • Ryan

    More than anything, I am wondering what the artist has to say about this. Do they sell their music on itunes? Do they get any sales? What about physical CD’s?

    A bit of a pointer. An artist is lucky to make 10c at absolute max from one physical record sale. Most artists who are capable of selling 30k tracks on itunes arent even lucky enough to see 30$ transferred to their bacnk from itunes every year.

    So… this poses the question, who is this really affecting? The artist who works hard to earn a legit income that is “stolen” by the labels, who continue to control their music in such a manner that it cant be reproduced even so much as to make a remix, or to put it on your damn ipod, or is it just affecting the labels who already earn enough to live their lavish lifestyles, and earn so much every 5 minutes that they can afford to pen a retarded e-mail expressing their disgust at something that is actually working in their favour.

    A note to Paul Harris – Do some research on three things for me. Creative Comons, Nine Inch Nails, and Radiohead. Then come back and comment about how negatively piracy is affecting the music industry. Or what? You going to sit there like a sheep and believe everything that the RIAA wants you to believe?

  • Anonymous

    Here is some cereal for your breakfast Mr. Harris aka Ass Clown!
    http://www.bored.com/photos/assclowncereal.html

  • LadyCritic4u

    I checked their myspace! And they totally suxs, i wouldn’t pay you a cent for it in the first place just cause your songs dont match my taste. Why make a fuzz abt it, if this isnt a pr trick on torrents lol

  • deviant

    So he’s not a jerk in a suit? Maybe he’s just a poor jerk who can’t afford a suit yet.

    Does he think all people who download music are hippies who should be picketing multinational companies?
    Without all of these ‘illegal downloads’ ticket sales for tours would drop dramatically. It’s not our fault if he’s put all his eggs in one basket and thinks physical media will make him a living.

  • Paul Harris

    I don’t expect any of you to agree with me, but a few of these comments are just inaccurate. There’s so much anger directed at the music industry, and a lot of anger directed at the pirates from the industry. Obviously it’s a situation that isn’t ideal from anyone’s point of view.

    I don’t take back anything I said though in future I’ll restrain my frustration and keep my language more neutral.

    But still – just because the technology is available, doesn’t make it right.

    I actually agree with the few of you that made the observation that the industry should have embraced the technology, as now it is a situation that will require intervention by governments and copyright organisations to bring under control which will inevitably increase bad feeling. But it has to be bought under some sort of control – you can’t break laws because you feel like you can (cue barrage of abuse).

    I’m not ‘furious’ – or whatever other adjectives torrentfreak is using to type cast me as a big bad industry exec – I just would like the situation solved so everyone gets paid a fair amount for what they do. If you disagree with that, ask yourself how you would feel if you were suddenly put in a position where what you did for a living was attacked in such a way.

    Lastly, Turin Brakes are a great band – though of course not to everyone’s taste – so please don’t attack them personally. I certainly didn’t do this for their publicity.

    P

  • A non moose

    Put your foot in your mouth didn’t you P! Why don’t you suggest to the big media to learn how to adapt to the forever changed market, because they don’t listen to us, the consumer, you know the ones that buy your goods and puts money in your pocket.

  • Anonymous

    I guess someone ain’t getting any?

    Gotta admit that if I found one of my works on a site, I’d probably be pissed as well. Not sure if I would write the letter that was written above though.

    Gotta give him some credit. At least it wasn’t distasteful.

  • A Sheep in Wolf’s clothing

    Surely anyone who uses the words balls and jerk off in the same sentence and not be talking porn deserves at least a modicum of respect? No?

  • phishybongwaters

    google is already being sued over linking to infringing content. Obviously they will win, but it’s a step in the right direction.

    Anyways, at least Mr. Harris came and expressed his views, trying to clear it up.

    Let me give you mine Paul. I’m not some 15 year old emo kid who has an entitlement complex.

    Why do I pirate? Simple, as many have pointed out, the music industry is not giving me the product i want. I want digital files playable in whatever device I CHOOSE. Not a drm laden file tethered to a drm server that might go down tomorrow, forever locking me out of my content.

    how about cds? Yes, how about them, over priced, full of security breaching software (drm, sony bmg) AND decay and become unreadable very VERY quickly.

    As well, under the fair use doctrine I have the legal right to make backup copies of my purchased media, so technically I have the legal right to make mp3s from my legally purchased cds. Great, too bad the labels put DRM and copy protection on the disk, forcing me to circumvent the protection to exercise my right, sadly tho, the record labels have succeeded in making it illegal for me to do that, making it impossible for me to exercise my legal right.

    The next main point is finding the music in the first place. Maybe in your world you can afford to go buy random cds of bands you’ve never heard of, the rest of us non record label owning people, simply can’t afford that, because the cd’s in question are extremely overpriced.

    How am I supposed to find the next great band?

    some of the comments are correct, the industry must embrace this technology and strive to give the customers what they want, not suing them into submission.

    That said….. I’m one of the few “pirates” that purchases more dvds/blurays/cds because i was able to pirate them, than anything else. Since piracy hit the mainstream, and even before back in the newgroup/irc days, my legally purchased library has expanded greatly. And as some truthful statistics will show, I am not the exception.

    Obviously, your small label is one of the few that could potentially be hurt by piracy. Or, you could turn it around, and embrace it, as you’ve just promoted your band to millions of people world wide, for free.

    I’m a musician, and I totally understand the point of needing to make a living at it. As a musician, I can say this clearly, if no one hears your music, you certainly won’t be making money from it.

    Take a cue from bands like Phish, that embraced filesharing before it existed. They, from the start, allowed fans to bootleg concerts and trade freely, as long as no money is involved, and the shows are not available for purchase from the band itself.

    This isn’t exactly the same, but there are parallels, as if not for the internet, phish would not be selling out stadiums around the world 23+ years later.

    So you’ve clearly expressed your view, and I’ve just outlined the reasoning behind mine, so here it is(and this is ignoring the fact that the band in question has barely any torrents, with hardly any downloads):

    A digital download, from a torrent, or other source, does not equal a lost sale to you. You make think it does, but let me ask you, if I go to my friends house and listen to his copy, do you make money from me? If I’m walking down the street and a car drives by playing it loud, do i send you 15$?

    I believe the industry is angry because they missed the boat, and desperately want to continue their agenda of stifling innovation. Don’t believe me? Go to EFF.org and read the section on devices saved, or lost, due to bs copyright crap.

    The industry is dying, it’s a dinosaur dependent on aging technology that simply doesn’t provide what the customers want, so you get piracy.

    i honestly do feel for the small labels and bands like those you represent, but I also feel for MY RIGHTS, which have been stripped away.

    I will continue to download files illegally, and if I enjoy the content, I will be purchasing it. I implore others to do the same, as most like to spout off that they do it on principle and this and this, while in reality, they are exactly what you think they are, spoiled little kids that want everything for free.

    They are the fringe.

    all you need to do, is take a look at the figures for digital content downloads and place that against cd sales. Yes there is a decline, no it’s not all “our fault”, most of us are sick of the crap being produced and would rather try before we buy.

    And before you respond, understand that we are well aware of the fact that RIAA lawsuit wins do not equal artist payments. In fact, almost all of the money gained by suing goes right back to the company to sue for fans. Take a look and see how that worked for metallica.

    Hell, there’s currently a coalition of artists suing some of the major labels, guess why? Copyright infringement. The labels are illegally selling compilations with those artists works, without permission, and without paying. I believe the current lost revenue total is in the billions.

    This is why it makes it hard for “us” to see your side of it, and I hope you can understand why.

    I do think the artists should be fairly compensated, with limitations. I really don’t think a “band” should expect to live the rest of their lives from the royalties from 1 song. *I can’t work 1 day and get paid for the entire year.

    Bands should tour, merchandise and ticket sales is where the bulk of their money SHOULD come from, if you can’t tour, get a real job IMO.

    I’m rambling so let me finish this up.

    “you can’t break laws because you feel like you can ”

    That’s not the point, and in fact, it’s quite hard for any of us to see downloading an mp3 as theft, and if you google the term theft you’ll see why, it’s not theft.

    If you really want to solve this, instead of demanding isps and governments become copyright cops, maybe you should embrace the technology like other bands. You won’t sell make records until people hear your songs, put a few out for free, and give the people a REASON to legally purchase it.

    In your case, as a small independent label, my suggestion would be to explain exactly how much money from those sales actually makes it back to the band. Let me be frank, no one gives a rats ass about YOU, but when it comes to the actual artists, they might start to think about it.

    I purchase movies/cds because i watched them for free and enjoyed, was given a reason to purchase them, or merely wanted to support the artists.

    The easiest way to get some ground here, is to respect and understand that we’re not all thieves, then work with us to find a happy medium.

    Mp3s are not cds. Mp3s are encoded files, compressed, and shrunk down. This may sound the same on ipod headphones, but not quite so for stereos. A downloaded mp3 is not a lost sale for you, in reality, it’s a potential new fan.

    Give them a reason to support you, and i promise, people will support you.

  • phishybongwaters

    I should add that I disagree with people making money from piracy, and that includes pay sites, and sites with ads where the entire ad revenue is NOT used for hosting costs.

    That is when, in my opinion, it becomes a crime.

  • heh

    Hey you guys better think about it…

  • A non moose

    Well put Phishybongwaters!
    Paul take a look at this thread about a Finnish label that just shot themselves in the foot.
    http://torrentfreak.com/record-label-stops-signing-artists-because-of-piracy-100104/

    Read the comments from the readers and also check out what the label Thorny Bleeder Records out of Canada is doing, offering free compilations for download so people can check out new music. I plan on purchasing a couple of the albums on my next paycheck. This is how it works, if I hear music I like, I will buy it.

  • lverona

    He says something about morality? Hehe. Well well.

    “I work my balls off trying to make a living in music”

    Well, that’s your problem. Why should we sacrifice our freedom so you can make a living in music? Looks like to you a living in music means sitting at home and seeing how money just comes into your bank account. Sorry – this is not how you make living in music. To make a living in music you have to be a musician – you play music, compose music and perform music. No problem making a living there.

  • Paul Harris

    Phishy bong waters: Good response – good to read a considered opinion. I don’t agree with all you say (but do with some), but that’s the beauty of being a sentient being.

    It’s great to hear you do support music and the artists who create it.

    P

  • me

    C’mon, that’s not aggressive at all. Corporate C&D’s are often WAY harsher and a lot more threatening than that. This here was just pathetic whining.

  • Paul Harris

    p.s. the artists’ coalition is suing nearly all the labels in Canada over unpaid royalties arising from compilations (due to some weird copyright loophole), and all power to them.

    Whether the damages could run in to billions is doubtful though: that is not a real figure, but one a over excited journalist and a lawyer made up to sensationalise the story based on RIAA fines to file sharers i think.

    Anyway, it’s been fun, always interesting to read people’s opinions. Have fun and if you must steal, at least enjoy the music you’re listening to.

    p.s. I took down my myspace and all those terrible photos. Hadn’t used it in ages.

  • goolash

    Nobody’s even heard of “reverbxl.” Paul Harris is already in insignificant footnote.

  • kuru

    @ 86:
    I couldn’t have said it better…

    Vis-a-vis all this crazyness, anarchy is the only way to live!!

  • Zoom

    @Paul Harris

    “Have fun and if you must steal, at least enjoy the music you’re listening to.”

    Its not stealing.
    Its part of musicculture, just like hometaping was back in those days.

    During my life [30 years as consumer] i spent E 120.000 at musicrelated stuff. Including some of your acts. Not enough ?

    Well it is for me.
    Wlll stop buying your stuff and not play it out as a DJ anymore.

  • phishybongwaters

    guys go easy on him, this isn’t someone from EMI coming and calling you brats, this is a guy running a small label that will actually feel the bite. Now how that affects that artist is in doubt, because that’s really none of our business.

    And yes, that billions number is complete crap, yet so is 9 thousand dollars a song, and that judgment is still in appeals(or is about to go to appeals?).

    And yes, we liken this to tape trading “back in the day” (wow that ages me doesn’t it) but it’s different now, the scale on which this is taking place is staggering. Instead of fighting it, take it as an opportunity, the customers are showing you what they want, try to fill that niche, it has worked for others.

    You’ve got to at least see where this guy is coming from right? I mean, if you can’t see his point, you are fooling yourselves.

  • Zoom

    @phishybongwaters

    The tape thing wasnt on a smaller scale 4 sure. Mixtapes got me and a whole generation into music.

    It isnt 4 Mr. Harris i will stop buying his labels stuff. Its the fact the labelpeople keep calling me a thief.

    I dont call myself a thief when im spending E 4.000 on music a year.

  • mediadefender

    “I’m not some jerk off in a suit.”

    ORLY???
    http://www.o–rly.com/owl_orly.png

  • BC16

    Total non-story IMO. I don’t see anything aggressive about it at all. Ernesto, in your effort to equate that request in such a way as you have here you may prove only to do little more than shift a reasoned mind towards that of the opinion you’re attempting to be critical of. You don’t have to agree with it, or bow to the demands, but to attempt to exploit it as something oh-so-terrible just makes you look weak, and your opinion quite irrelevent, in my opinion.

  • Dan

    What an a$$..

    If I download it illegaly, it means I WILL NOT BUY IT, so stop wasting your time and money (the money that you make from us pirates, cause us too, WE BUY).

  • Anonymous

    Oh hi, Paul Harris.

    If you’re still reading this, maybe you can explain why the less than ten people downloading Turin Brakes music through bittorrent amounts to such a crisis that it provoked a threat-filled tantrum against filesharing from you.

    Can you please educate us on how badly Turin Brakes are being hurt because less than 10 people are pirating their music?

    I’d really like to know.

  • prodigydancer

    Like… what? The high morality of the music industry? Oh, and maybe pigs can fly too?

    Give me a break…

  • Anonymous

    Apparently nobody care about TURIN BRAKES since these stuff is almost impossible to find on various P2P so I wonder what the fuss is all about.

  • BecauseIwasToldNotTo

    @ The Haters
    They don’t actually suck. Perhaps they are just not the preferred genre of most.

    P2P ftw!

  • Mark

    I just read through some of those emails and responses they have posted there.
    lol’d at all of them. :)

  • in.cog.nito

    @#22 shut your cake hole. if you don’t like it don’t do it. don’t force your morals and liberal bleeding heart views onto other people.

    I feel for the guy, but his comments about mininova and saying that they WILL be the same, and the threat at the end make him sound like a retarded jackoff.

    Also, just because i rent vans, dosen’t mean i know the intentions of those people who rent them from me. What a lame ass example.

  • Yatti420

    Maybe next time this guy will actually send a proper dmca takedown..

    Mininova wasn’t the most uncooperative.. TPB is..

  • TurinBrakes Rulez

    Maybe they should just get this no-name band removed from Google altogether.

  • Boris

    the letter is pretty calm and reasonable, nothing except maybe the last paragraph is close to a rant.

    and definetly nothing FURIOUS!!! about it.

    TorrentFreak, you shouldn’t over inflate and project. Don’t stoop to FOX&Co. and Record Industry tactics

    tsk tsk

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  • anonymous

    @17- i agree with you. ive seen a lot of posts on here where anonymoe’s decide to distribute something which they probably have no real interest in, just to prove a point to some suits somewhere. its sort of noble, but really just kind of lame

  • Anonymous

    Torrents are now becoming scapegoats for sucky artists and musicians.

    If your record don’t sell well, it is due to downloaders and not for their inept ability to produce a decent material.

  • Anonymous

    Someone wants attention…

  • Anonymous

    @70

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  • Anonymous

    “I work my balls off trying to make a living in music” I rofl’ed

  • Whatever

    It may be not the most aggresive letter but it does look stupid, “immoral” and at least very insulting throughout. And anyone calling themselves “sir” are not working all that hard.

    Letter starts out reasonable but:

    1. Threat:
    “then I advise you to invest in it before you are closed down or forced to remove all links.”

    2. Lie/threat:
    “”

    3. Hypocritical, accusation and insulting:
    “”

    Only the last line maybe a real rant but the text is filled with assumptions about the mindset of the admin(s) WHILE at the same time mentioning the admin(s) shouldn’t make assumptions about him AND in the same sentence ACCUSING the admin(s) of doing just that. Most of the text is insulting especially the last part.

    Yes, i did make an assumption about a “sir” but i just comment here, i dont send takedown letters. :-)
    Also assumed this is the first takedown letter like the article says.

    PS: Indeed there are no pictures to see anymore (maybe google but not worth the effort).

    PS2: I wonder if his myspace page had embedded youtube links to copyrighted material of others like the employees of the dutch BUMA (monopoly on collecting money for artists) on Hyves who wanted to let people pay for embedding ? (If he did, he wouldn’t admit it anyway, nice making assumptions…)

  • Whatever

    Correction…

    Oops,shouldnt use bigger than or smaller than signs.

    In the quotes…
    2. mininova part
    3. insert rest of the text

  • DeathStalker

    LMAO! What a LOSER!

    Oh, BTW, he’s now made his MySpace pages & pics private. Guess he couldn’t take the heat when exposed to the light of day.

    I’ll be certain to ignore both him and any band associated with him (NOT that I had even HEARD of any of them to begin with!)

    This crap begins to start becoming less humorous and just more annoying than anything.

  • Anon

    @Paul Harris

    Man, chill and take the time to look at this article. Perhaps will enlighten you. And written by a respected figure of contemporary music, Thurston Moore. And he also needs to eat and pay taxes.

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/play.html?pg=3

    “Once again, we’re being told that home taping (in the form of ripping and burning) is killing music. But it’s not: It simply exists as a nod to the true love and ego involved in sharing music with friends and lovers. Trying to control music sharing – by shutting down P2P sites or MP3 blogs or BitTorrent or whatever other technology comes along – is like trying to control an affair of the heart. Nothing will stop it.”

  • Surys

    No doubt this douchebag is sending the same to Google/YouTube/etc who actually HOST and directly DISTRIBUTE copyrighted content…

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=turinbrakes&search_type=&aq=f

    Where the video/audio can be downloaded using a plethora of add-ons:

    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search?q=youtube&cat=all&as=1&appid=1&lver=3.5&atype=0&pp=20&pid=0&sort=weeklydownloads&lup=

    If you can’t build a decent, profitable business model despite piracy, read Trent Reznor’s advice… but you won’t accept the touring/merchandise argument because that means working every day… and let’s face it, Turin Brakes’s fans are probably too miserable to leave their own homes… so maybe it just isn’t viable.

    Seriously though, you could put 2 buskers together, add a percussion layer and you’d end up with some of the horsesh!t that Turin Brakes produces. LMFAO!

  • Anonymous

    lol thats one band im never going to support. lawl

  • Sci-Fi

    what a dumbass letter that was. p2p is already a footnote in history, regardless of his views on such, and it’s the way music is tending towards.

  • DeltaPan

    Used to love Siouxsie Sioux, had a couple of lookalike GF’s during my teens, back in the day, as well.

  • Eh

    This is a little bit of an overzealous response, but I can understand the guy. I’m sure many honest hardworking producers are assumed to be the same as the idiots ripping off the masses and suing single moms for millions of dollars. If he worked hard enough trying to make a life for himself, I could see why he would snap having that music pirated. However, rather than ranting about it to someone who honestly doesn’t care, he should use that new distribution stream as a resource–he could turn this around if he just tried.

  • Mr. Sadface

    What a cocksucker.

  • Copyright Agent

    It’s his property. He has the right. And you would do the same if you were losing all that money. Good for him. I look forward to the day when all torrent sites are banned from the internet period.

  • Nostradamus

    I’m going to download Turin Brakes and seed till 2012!!!!!

  • apathy incorporated

    @136 StFu you A$$Munch.. its not his property.. jeebusjumpeduponhisfucckinghorseChrist are you retarded? losing all what money? i dont even have the heart to explain how the whole world works to you.. banned from internets period??? W T H? obvious much? you probably think sharing didnt exist until torrents came along, did ya little susie?

  • Peter

    So, this Harris-gay is just a leecher living off musicians work ?
    He just doesn’t get it, the “Music Industry” is as needed as makers of wooden barrels, tall black hats and lead-typesetters ..

  • Irish Bog

    First of all Turin Brakes are a fantastic band and well worth checking out !!!
    (How you do that I guess is up to you :-)

    Paul Harris’s letter was very understandable and I thought reasonably put…..great response Phishy….. among all the shite comments saying the same thing over and over again it’s good to see some bloody intelligence……honestly I think the only thing that would make me think twice about downloading are all the self-rghteous “principled” assholes on here talking about their freedom…..Jesus give me a fucking break…

  • IDBIIP

    I would like to suggest that he consider the reply offered in the 1971 case Arkell v Pressdam as the most likely outcome after an incoherent, angry rant like that one.

    Furthermore, without links to copyrighted material, we would not be able to link to anything in Berne signatory countries, because everything is copyrighted automatically. But most people have more sense (and less greed) and permit such links without claiming that those links are infringing. Not that he appears to care for such trivialities as difference between copyrighted and copyright infringing…

  • Twit

    Is there any way .torrent files could be attached to Twitter tweets (in the same way that people use twitpic.com for “attaching” pictures to tweets)?

    Then Google (and the other sites indexing tweets) would act as the index for torrents, all of which would be decentralized?

  • Anonymous

    That guy didn’t make them look bad at all, imo. He just wanted his say in things and had a turn on it people didn’t like. He’s probably a good man with an available job that anyone can future them selves in, and now no body not just him can get their fair share from it.

  • Irish Bog

    Furious ? Angry rant ?
    Inchoherent ? I don’t think so….. you guys are so biased it’s not even funny…

    This kind of article makes me doubt the veracity of everything you write….

  • Cik

    @92 thank you paul for showing up and making a reasoned argument. the crowd is kind of hostile i know ;d unrepentant pirate here, but i can accept and respect reasoned arguments all the same. best of luck in the future mate.

  • Macktheknife

    WTF “TURIN BRAKES”? never heard of them

  • Ed B

    Prediction: musicians of the future will be forced to making (real) money from live shows and tie-ins (such as merchandising).

    That is, until covert video recording and fabbing tech improves to the stage where it can stop those revenue streams, too.*

    Well, there’s always the “wandering minstrel” career pathway, I guess.

    *I can just see Alan Ellis in court again in 2050. “But your Honour, I was merely running a pay upfront, invite-only indexing site for the sole purpose of posting links to popular fabbing blueprints. What, you mean some of those popular fabbing blueprints could create LICENSED products? Unbelievable. Oh, and yes, that 2 million GBP was for running my servers. All 5 of them.”

  • Anon

    This Harris bloke is SUCH a music exec. Turin Breaks are shit. He’s really pushing it to expect that anyone wants to download their pointless warblings.

    Maybe they’d have a bigger audience if they gave their music away. Then all those people who couldn’t give a shit about them might actually listen to them and perhaps, just perhaps come to one of their gigs.

    Bands don’t make much money from record sales these days anyway (and Turin Breaks probably don’t even recoup) – They make money from gigging.

    Sounds to me like Paul Harris is trying to protect his slice of the pie, like a typical music biz shylock.

    I am now trying to find Turin Breaks stuff to download ON PURPOSE. Not that I can find any, they are so unloved by anyone.

    Get a life Harris. It’s people like you who us downloaders want to put out of a job.

  • Anonmmous

    Paul Harris is just another sponge who is making money out of Artists..

    Perhaps if he gave up his own slice of Turin Breaks profits to see them make more money his points may have some creedence.

    Pirating isn’t killing music, it’s music industry types sucking their percentage from everything.

    He won’t pledge his take back to the band, so why should we pay him?

    I figure that the 20% he’s making would easily recoup their losses from downloading.

    Will he do that? Hell no, he’ll probably spend it on cocaine and laugh in their faces as Turin Breaks starve.

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