TorrentFreak

The place where breaking news, BitTorrent and copyright collide

Hollywood Lawyers Threaten ‘Hobbit’ Pub

Film producer Saul Zaentz owns the film, stage and merchandising rights to JRR Tolkien classics such as The Hobbit. Ostensibly to protect those rights, lawyers for the company are now threatening small businesses across the UK with ruinous legal action if they don’t stop using the term ‘Hobbit’ – a word that may not even have been created by Tolkien.

When Hollywood paints their version of the piracy picture, they’re careful not to mention the millionaires and the affluent who do rather well despite unauthorized copying. Instead they focus on the little guys who make coffee and run errands on set, and the mom and pop businesses scraping an honest living on the periphery.

But when the big rightsholders feel under threat, they’re happy to crush those very same people in pursuit of money. Cue an awful story today from the UK’s Daily Echo.

For the last 20 years a little pub in Southampton, England, has been serving beer to the local community and all that time it’s had the same name – The Hobbit. But Saul Zaentz, the producer behind movies such as The English Patient and One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, has sent in the lawyers to do something about that.

Zaentz owns the merchandising rights to The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and his lawyers have warned that if the pub doesn’t change its name and remove all references to Tolkien-related items by the end of May, its owners will be sued for infringement.

Understandably its owners are upset. They can’t afford to fight the studio but their pub’s very identity is now at risk. People supporting a Facebook campaign against the studio’s threats is growing quickly.

But even more worrying is that this action by Zaentz against a local pub doesn’t sit in isolation.

In November 2011, Zaentz sent his lawyers to threaten the owners of a small cafe in Birmingham, England, near to where Tolkien was born. The sandwich bar, known as The Hungry Hobbit, was accused of copyright infringement despite operating under the name for the last 6 years. The current owners are first-time business owners of less than a year’s standing.

In a letter titled “Unauthorized Use of Hobbit” – Zaentz’s lawyers ordered the owners of the cafe to stop using the word Hobbit or face legal action, claiming that the sandwich bar’s use of the term would be detrimental to the brand and would leave people to believe that the outlet is endorsed by Zaentz.

But the threats don’t even stop there. A small company in Scotland making wooden lodges dared to refer to one of their products as “hobbit houses” on their website. Of course, Zaentz sent in the lawyers and the company were forced to comply.

But let’s step back for a moment to see what the origin of the word ‘Hobbit’ actually is. Was this something conjured up from the depths of Tolkien’s imagination in 1937, a product of his mind and his mind only? That’s up for debate.

In 1895, folklorist Michael Aislabie Denham listed a massive collection of interesting creatures in his publication ‘The Denham Tracts Vol 2‘ which included “. . . nixies, Jinny-burnt-tails, dudmen, hell-hounds, dopple-gangers, boggleboes, bogies, redmen, portunes, grants..”

And, of course, ‘Hobbits’.

It seems absolutely ridiculous that 125+ years after an imaginary creature was reported somehow a company can come along and turn the lives of normal people upside down over the use of its name.

Trademarks may have to be protected, but being a heartless bully can’t be the answer.

Related Posts

Previous Post | Next Post

  • Momo

    first :)

  • Element_board_123

    Stupid Idiots thinking that suing people is the best way to go btw before I read this story i didn’t know who the fuck Zaentz was, but I know what a hobbit is.

    • Anonymous

      Does that mean, “Elves” and “Orcs” are ok to use in TLOTR? How about the race of, “Men”?

      • Guest

        The race of Men is fucked…the US own everyone.

        They appear to be able to extradite anyone, anywhere, any time.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17355203

        • Guest

          Boycott list:
          - Hollywood products
          - RIAA products
          - The Hobbit (movie ofc)
          - The Lord of the Rings
          - Saul Zaentz

          #blackmarch

        • Guest

          Fuck Hollywood

          All they’ve ever done is steal other people’s ideas. Practically every Disney movie ever written uses European folklore and The Lion King was stolen from the Japanese (Simba the White Lion). “Foreign” films are routinely recycled into plastic-fantastic crap. Hardly anything is produced locally with local ideas.

          Shit, even the industry itself is populated with talented non-Americans lured with promises of cash, then fucked on when the blockbuster pays its producers a massive one-off fee and on paper the movie makes a loss.

          It’s corrupt from top to bottom. Don’t give them a cent. It will only be used to track you online and harass you if you don’t do things their way.

          Fuck Hollywood. Fuck them in the arse.

        • Asdf

          Without stealing content, Metallica would have never existed since they stole most of their music from someone else.

      • Loltroll

        ssh, don’t give them any ideas, next thing you know every fantasy author that came after Tolkien will be prosecuted after apple patents the world troll :-)

    • GUEST

      “I know what a hobbit is”

      Are you sure?

      “Hobbit definition
      A Scheme to C compiler by Tanel Tammet tammet@cs.chalmers.se. Hobbit attempts to retain most of the original Scheme program structure, making the output C program readable and modifiable. Hobbit is written in Scheme and is able to self-compile. Hobbit release 1 works together with the scm release scm4b3. Future releases of scm and hobbit will be coordinated.
      Latest version: release 2.
      (ftp://altdorf.ai.mit.edu/archive/scm/hobbit2.tar.Z).
      (1993-04-25)
      2. The non-ITS name of (*Hobbit*), master of lasers.

      hobbit definition
      High order bit. The most significant bit (of a byte). Also known as the meta bit or high bit. [Jargon File] ”

      My point is that there is a very very good chance that there is a prior pres-Tolkien use for the word Hobbit meaning something different.

      This being said the invention/re-invention of the word Hobbit by Tolkien was brilliant but it bother me to see all these corporate parasites taking advantage of something they did not created. These guys are making the rope that will hang them but I guess that they don’t realize that. I mean if they were not a pack of fool they should be worry considering what’s happen in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, S . .

    • http://twitter.com/eliziario Marcos Eliziario

      I am glad to announce that I am planning to open a Pub in Rio de Janeiro that will be called “Zaentz, the Unclufucker”.

    • yello

      well, now i feel compelled to go out, re-download “one flew over the cuckoos
      nest” and ‘The english patient” and seed till a ratio of 1mill.
      just to piss em off…

  • Anon

    What the fuck did i just read?

    • Sozoiemn

      You read the story about a RETARD called Saul Zaentz.

      Now, everyone knows that Saul Zaentz is a motherfucking, stupid, assclown, RETARD.

      • Guest

        To be fair, the guy is 91, I doubt he plays a very active role in all this. It’s probably the lawyers keeping busy as usual. It’s win-win for them regardless the outcome.

        “It did not take long for people to see the rather obvious flaw in paying a group of people by the number of fires they put out.” :)

        • Guest

          american legal system shines upon the free world with it’s lawyers ahead

          http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

        • Matthew Muscari

          If you have some question about Saul Zaentz’s role in this, look into his dealings with John Fogerty, and have a listen to the song ‘Vanz Kant Danz,’ which was renamed from ‘Zanz Kant Danz’ when Zaentz threatened legal action.

      • Jay Maynard

        Saul Zaentz is not a RETARD! More like a FUCKTARD……

  • Jehovah

    You used the word ‘Hobbit’ a total of 10 times in the article, prepare to be sued! Wait… I just said Hobbit as well….Nooooooo! Quick everyone, stop using the h-word!

  • nco71

    DOn’t go watch their next movie in the feature , pirate it , download it online , hack it , don’t buy their accessories. They care so much about money , let’s teach them money means customers !!

    • Guest

      My thought exactly. It’s the only “language” these guys understand, money.

    • Universal Soldier

      After reading this article, I already planned to boycott the movie. Now I would download it and share it with my friends and encourage them to boycott the movie too.

  • Anonymous

    Something about hoe bbits not getting a good deal from some cafe/pub in the Queens land.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

      reminds me of how a small time contractor Michael Roe had Bill Gates’ lawyered up against him in view of his chosen domain name for his web presence. mikeroesoft.co.uk

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    Could always do a Prince on it
    PUb FOrmally Known As The Hobbit

    The PUFOKATH public House

    The story on how it got its new name would be told for years and far more damaging in long term PR to a dumbass rights holder

    • Anonymous

      Yes “NOT The Hobbit Pub” would work.

      • It’s a fit-up

        How about:
        The Saul Zaentz is an alleged cunt pub.

    • Anyone

      brilliant
      I hope they read this

    • Henrik

      Agreed! If I owned that pub, I’d give it a very startling name to get the talk going as much as possible.

      God, I’m glad I’ve neither spent a cent nor seen a minute of their shitty movies.

  • foff

    Bullshit you can’t trademark a word or a name that has been in continuous use for 125 years. They should tell the film producer to fuckity fuck off and sue him after all you had the name on your business first.

    • Anyone

      of course you can if the system is as broken as it is.

    • Anon

      but it is really unfortunate, they don’t have money to fight back. It’s pretty sad. Better option, then pirate they works, is to ignore it completely, then they will get even no free advertising.

    • http://twitter.com/eliziario Marcos Eliziario

      You can, if your victims don’t have the money to fight you in justice.

  • saa

    I live literally 5 minutes away from that pub. It’s a wonderful little place, and seeing it threatened with legal action is really disheartening. It’s nothing but friendly, good natured and fun – it has a ton of house pints/shot cocktails all named after characters from LotR. And it does silly things too like on one day of the week you get a free Freddo chocolate bar with a Frodo pint cocktail. It’d still be the same friendly place even if it were forced to rebrand, but it would lose its unique identity and part of its charm. I know loads of people who go there for their first time purely because of the novelty of having a LotR themed pub, so it would probably lose business too.

    This is just bullying, and it doesn’t deserve it. It’s been around so long too with no problems.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/5ZAGR3DOWPOSKHZ6JHUTHOTGEM Louise

      Perhaps these people don’t like ‘fun’ and are a bunch of miserable idiots who only see money. What would JJ Tolkien think if all this?

  • Anonymous

    Well I have just researched this one.

    The Hobbit was first published in the UK: 21 September 1937
    J. R. R. Tolkien (British author) died: 2 September 1973.

    Under 1911 laws Copyright was life plus 50 years.
    Copyright was extended in 1995 to life plus 70 years,

    The author’s life plus 70 years: 1973+70= December 31, 2043.

    Information also indicates the term “Hobbit” was created by this author making it a word subject to copyright and trademarks. So I am sorry to say that all these places are wrong and under current law you cannot use “Hobbit” without the approval of the copyright owner.

    The only remaining question is if Saul Zaentz has the lawful right to enforce these restrictions when licencing for use does not usually involve such rights enforcement and may need the current Copyright holder to enforce these rights.

    • Guest

      However, as the article also states, the word appears in the second Denham Tract, published in 1849. Also, the word is not used just randomly there, but clearly to describe a supernatural creature. Hence, it can be argued quite strongly that Tolkien did not, in fact, create the word Hobbit — although he undeniably made the word world famous.

      • Anonymous

        Wikipedia says on evidence of earlier use…

        The only source known today that makes reference to hobbits in any sort of historical context is the Denham Tracts by Michael Aislabie Denham. More specifically, it appears in the Denham Tracts, edited by James Hardy, (London: Folklore Society, 1895), vol. 2, the second part of a two-volume set compiled from Denham’s publications between 1846 and 1859.

        The text contains a long list of sprites and bogies, based on an older list, the Discovery of Witchcraft, dated 1584, with many additions and a few repetitions. The term hobbit is listed in the context of boggleboes, bogies, redmen, portunes, grants, hobbits, hobgoblins, brown-men, cowies, dunnies

        In the December 2003 Oxford English Dictionary newsletter, in the “Words of Choice” section, the following appears:

        4. hobbit — J. R. R. Tolkien modestly claimed not to have coined this word, although the Supplement to the OED credited him with the invention of it in the absence of further evidence. It seems, however, that Tolkien was right to be cautious. It has since turned up in one of those 19th-century folklore journals, in a list of long-forgotten words for fairy-folk or little people. It seems likely that Tolkien, with his interest in folklore, read this and subconsciously registered the name, reviving it many years later in his most famous character. [Editor's note: although revision of the OED's entry for hobbit will of course take this evidence for earlier use into account, it does not yet appear in the online version of the entry.]

        So there may indeed be a case here even if most official sources quote J. R. R. Tolkien as the creator. There are different aspects in play than just the Hobbit word when all make use of a larger theme.

        • Guest

          “There are different aspects in play than just the Hobbit word when all make use of a larger theme.”

          That’s true. As ‘saa’ above states, the place is seemingly thriving on the whole Tolkien franchise with Fredo cocktails and whatnot. While I do think it’s sad, this is almost surely not allowed.

          Time to revise IP laws… oh, wait, we can’t because ACTA. …

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Just say the “Hobbit” in the pub name refers to the older, public domain creature. Case solved. And suddenly I feel the urge to open a pub named The Hobbit. For the lulz.

        • Anyone

          ACTA is not yet in effect, so there is still time

        • Anonymous

          Seriously? Who cares, this is fucking madness.

    • traedmark

      Well.. but trademark should only apply if there is a conflict between products or if it’s a source of confusion for the consumer.

      For the same reason that Microsoft’s “Windows” trademark doesn’t prevent any other non-software product from calling itself “Windows”. Example: I can have a pub and call it “Windows” and Microsoft wouldn’t be able to do anything _as long_ as it’s clear that my pub and Microsoft are totally unrelated. Particularly because the word “Windows” precedes its use in the context of software.

      As you confirmed below, Tolkien probably invented “hobbits” as much as he invented “elves” or “orcs” (i.e. not at all), which makes it all even worse, I think.

      Oh well..

      • Anonymous

        Yes but the The Hobbit pub is LOTR themed including cocktails named Frodo and Gandalf. I am not too much into patent law but both of these clearly aim to exploit the same copyright protected story.

        • ShirleyTemple
        • Gimli

          I’ll take a Gimli please!

          http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/drink-offers/

        • traedmark

          Yeah, true. On the other hand, unless LOTR-themed pubs compete with any of whatever-his-name-is’s products, I fail too see how blindly protecting the trademark is morally, ethically or economically correct (even if it is legally correct).

          This bar is actually helping to imprint LOTR into people’s brains (i.e. helping whatever-his-name-is) while at the same time selling something that whatever-his-name-is isn’t selling (i.e. not competing) – alcohol.

          I fail to see how persecuting these LOTR-themed bars will make them more money. In fact, I’d say it has exactly the opposite effect… being an asshole towards your customers/fans is never a smart idea in the long-term.

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          Dudes and dudettes, elves, dragons etc come from the VIKING mythology. Clearly public domain. Except that in the United Nazi States of America public domain can be copyrighted.

        • CH3OH

          If they served methanol then they can have a special …

          “One Card to Blind Them All”

        • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

          @Ninja:

          That’s probably not a strong argument. Though elves came from viking mythology, any current incarnation of elves is a spinoff of Tolkein’s personal vision…they’re not portrayed as faeries dancing around in mushroom rings anymore. There may be a similar argument with regards to hobbit, if the term was defined at all before Tolkien…although, simple use of the name in and of itself should not run afoul of anything, regardless of copyright law, due to precedence. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and neither is ignorance of history before writing a contract…

        • http://twitter.com/icanhazsake Ninja

          @Gene

          I disagree with you. Just because the current use is based on Tolkien it doesn’t mean my use can’t be the old mythology one. It’s public domain material. End of the story.

          That said, it seems they serve drinks and other stuff themed after specific LOTR characters. This COULD be a problem if it wasn’t public domain already (the book). And there’s the fact that the pub is like 20 yrs old. Srsly? Why sue now? I will agree that it is commercial use of the names but does it really matter? Will the usage of character names deprive Tolkien of any money (or the producers of the movie)?

  • http://torrentfreak.com/ Rob8urcakes

    Dear Mr Zaentz,
    Please note that use of your surname is in breach of my CopyWrong ownership as I claim sole rights to the use, distribution and copying of all material containing your alleged name.

    Your unlawful use of your surname is unauthorised and I hereby claim damages of 100 Gazillion Bucks or, at the very least, your wobbly little dick shrivels up and drops off quicker than any Hobbit can drop a smelly fart in public.

    Get a freakin’ grip you fucktard troll.

    Sincerely,
    Rob8urHobbit

  • Bec Cam

    I’ll download their next movie illegaly

  • Batlock666

    There’s a reason that Dungeons & Dragons uses the word “halfling”. Tolkien also used this word, but it is not trademarked.

    • Thoughtful

      Time for a short history lesson!

      D&D exists as it does today, because originally they based it off of Tolkien’s work. One lawsuit later, and we saw use of the word Halfling, and lots of differences being made for the second edition. Now, D&D became the basis for games such as Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, etc… and those became a sort of foundation for games like Dragon Age: Origins.

      However, have you heard of The Ring of the Nibelung? It was a series of four operas created by Wagner. [[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Ring_des_Nibelungen#Wagner.27s_Ring_and_Tolkien.27s_Ring ]] There are studies tying Tolkien to Wagner’s work, despite that he denied it. The funny thing though, is that they both likely studied Norse Mythology for some of their source material.

      • Anyone

        and the Nibelungen saga itself is even older than Wagner’s work

        • Zoijar

          Everything is a derivative work. We as humans don’t exist in a vacuum; everything we conceive stems from some previous input or the other.

  • Jmorse43508

    Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit…

    Sue me, Mr. Zaentz. I dare you!

    Another idiot lawyer who thinks they can wave around legal threats like they were some kind of badge. Sounds like a copyright, or to be more precise, a trademark troll, to me.

    • Keifthefilesharer

      But you’re not making any money by saying that word multiple times there, all you’re doing is promoting the upcoming movie and associated merchandising by implanting it into people’s minds.

    • Edward McCain

      I love the bold and daring use of “bit, Hob” on whitespace. Can I use your artistic creation on my Facebook? I would be willing to give you a fiver or two for the privilege. Thanks!

  • Somebody

    We all need to stop all this bitching and make a bill before congress and have Copyright minimized to the point that it won’t bother anyone.

    • wellitstrue

      hahahhaha, that’s hilarious. good one!

  • BRiTiSHSM

    They’ve been using the name for at least 20 years – no UK court will even contemplate doing anything – they’ll just throw it out as frivolous.

  • O’lay Pirate

    I was going to buy The Hobbit on blu-ray because I love Lord of the Rings and thought it was totally worth the money. Now I’ve read this… fuck them, I’ll pirate it like I did with shit movies like Twilight.

  • Hmm7

    more like knobit

  • Mwhahaha

    Hobbit’s a derivation of hob, which also led to hobmen and hobthrusts, the term hob was around in the 1860′s when the terms were vaguely interchangable with a boggart or brownie, a household spirit of some kind (Lore of the Land, Westwood & Simpson, 2005).
    Lore of the Land also states Tolkein didn’t invent the term hobbit, tho it doesn’t state who did.

    I can’t see this getting very far, I’d imagine they’d be protection for the term in a literary or cinematic setting, but it’s like the makers of Cats and Dogs suing a company making Dog food.

    Can they counter sue on the ground of being petty money grasping bastards?

    • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

      the problem is it’s going to amount to financial bullying. The people being sued aren’t going to be able to afford to defend themselves and as such will have to fold and change to avoid going bankrupt. There should be some kind of version of ‘habeus corpus’ before a financial suit, something informal where the two parties meet in front of a judge to determine if it is moral and ethical to proceed before the trial begins.

  • Mwhahaha

    News Just In:

    The Hungry Hobbit to also be sued by the writer of ‘The Very Hungry Caterpillar’.

    • Zig

      And Hasbro over the Hungry Hippos game

      • Danny

        And hungry horse.

        And me because I’m hungry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    To think, under ACTA if treatment of the internet is anything to go by, The rights holder could stop the pub in its tracks by making his prima facia claim to a magistrate to withdraw the pub’s alcohol license and issue a court order to brewers not to supply them and demand directory enquiriesdelist their phone number and freeze their bank accounts, all before the claimed rights holder writes to the landlord.

  • Ka

    Hobbit, Hobbit, Hobbit, I could say it or use it wherever and whenever I LIKE !!!!!!!
    This is ridiculous! Does he own the rights of the books?

  • rockadayberry

    john fogerty,formerly of credence clearwater revival, wrote a song about the guy,published in 1985,called:vanz kant danz,but he´ll steal your money.
    read the lyrics,and you´ll know.

  • Anonymous

    Man you just gotta love them bottom feeding, blood sucking attorneys lol.
    Getting-Privacy.tk

  • spontaneouscombustion

    Come to Africa my brothers and sister. The long arm of MPAA and their ilk cannot reach us. Muahahahahah

    • Anonymous

      I read recently that they now aim to bring Africa under copyright enforcement.

  • http://mattrhysdavies.com Matt Rhys-Davies

    Copyrighting words. Awesome.

    I’m going to copyright the word “fail” and sue the internet.

  • PonyUp

    Look out … Prancing Pony … YOU ARE NEXT! BOLLOCKS!

    The Prancing Pony
    Stiffords Bridge
    Cradley
    Malvern
    Worcestershire
    WR13 5NN

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/The_Prancing_Pony%2C_Stifford%27s_Bridge_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1110590.jpg

  • LedZepplin

    Mine’s a tale that can’t be told, my freedom I hold dear.
    How years ago in days of old, when magic filled the air.
    T’was in the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair.
    But Gollum, and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her, her, her….yeah.

    -Led Zepplin
    “Ramble On”

  • Rifrich

    Are you fucking serious?….
    Tell them to fuck off.

  • ndmushroom

    Does this fellow own the rights to Tolkien’s works, or just the rights to the movies and associated merchandise? It’s ridiculous either way, but it would be hilarious for the guy not to own the rights to the book itself.

  • Pingback: Hollywood Lawyers Threaten ‘Hobbit’ Pub | We R Pirates

  • ndmushroom

    Having said that, I think there’s a pretty easy solution to this dispute, and one that will point out just how ridiculous the case is: the pub owner only has to change his last name to “Hobbit”. If the copyright owner says anything like “that’s not fair, you only changed your name after I sued you” the pub owner could reply “well, given my pub’s name was “The Hobbit” 20 years before you acquired the copyright, we’ve got ourselves in some situation, haven’t we?”, preferably following this with a headbutt (which, IMO, is the only thing the copyright clown deserves).

  • Zig

    The Hobbit is also an old Welsh measure of volume or weight (particularly items like grain – you know, like they use for brewing beer, so perfectly suitable for use in a pub name anyway):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_(unit)

  • Asdf

    And what a heck does the pub name have to do with a movie? nothing. Or are you honestly telling me that you could mix up the two??? If you can, then I’d say that you should be greeted by some nice fellas wearing white and locked in a padded room. The name hobbit ( unless used in a movie/tv/book/cartoon etc ) has nothing to do with the the JRR Tolkien stories… So they do not own the rights for this name.

    Its kinda the same that I would come and tell you that I patented brown shoes today, since you are wearing a pair of brown loafers you owe me 20 billion eurodollars.. Umm, I think I would just be laughed out of the courtroom with that…

    • Zig

      Not least because there’s no such currency as Eurodollars! ;p

      • Asdf

        LOL, I was afraid somebody would catch up on that..

  • ChauvinistPig

    Would they sue Led Zeppelin cause of Ramble On song?

    • Jason Bonham

      They would if Led Zeppelin hadn’t split up 30 years ago following the death of John Bonham.

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t there some “statute of limitations” or anything like this regarding copyright laws?
    I mean when you’ve done business for 20 years with that name, how come you can have a lawyer ring at your doorbell and say that you suddenly have to pay up or change the name by which everyone knows your business?

    • Anonymous

      I am doubtful. Copyright lasts life plus 70 years and further more the law expects rights owners to police and enforce their own creations. I seems misplaced to limit their rights just because they were looking in the wrong direction for infringement or had their due enforcement list full already.

      I am quite sure though that their main problem with this case is use of recognizable artwork from the recent movies which should pose an easy infringement case.

      I doubt they would have a problem with the name “The Hobbit” where it clearly has older reference and the author also doubted his creation. The cocktails are more middle ground when food and drink have always been a bad place for copyright. At best they have assumed name origins.

      Best option seems to be to ditch the questionable artwork and to put up a sign reading that “this place is in no way approved by or connect to….”

      • http://www.thesatelliteshow.com/ Erik

        Yeah, the objectionable thing, from the lawyers’ perspective, is all the film imagery. Zaentz has clear rights in that regard.

        But also, it’s a shame that the first move is always a cease-and-desist. In the case of a mom and pop business that is completely divorced from the Copyright Holder’s domain, why not charge a token license fee (say a pound) and issue a press release announcing the amicable accord?

      • traedmark

        Uhm… just to clarify something: This issue is about “trademarks”, not “copyrights”, so there’s no 70 years+life issue.

      • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

        hmmmmmmmmmmmm…

        something occurs to me, a potential loophole.

        I read about the copyright dispute to the song “this land is your land”, it seemed the writer of the song did not file for copyright at the time the work was originally distributed (via music sheets) and as such passing on of the rights failed as copyright expired 28 years after creation, making the work public domain, despite a company ‘owning’ the rights to the work.

        My point is, is copyright retroactive? When did Tolkien file for copyright of the works? could the existing copyright laws have expired before the laws were changed? The law at the time was not life + 70 years…

        • Anonymous

          It’s not supposed to be retroactive. The newer copyright laws should not extend the “life” of protection that already expired. However, there was one exception. I think it was when US adopted some european standards (or the opposite) which turned the protection duration from “date of work + n years” to “death of author + n’ years”. At this point, they decided that the change was retroactive… which effectively brought some creations out of public domain. I leave to you to imagine the mess it can be.

      • Anonymous

        As with all “statutes of limitations” or the like, it doesn’t matter that you were not looking in the right place. Even a murderer can get away with it if the police doesn’t “look in the right direction” for long enough.

        Copyright lasts (more than) long enough already. And now you add this abuse from something that clearly doesn’t cause any prejudice. (If anything, the right holder benefits from free advertisement.)

        I don’t say that “statutes of limitations” are good or bad. I just wonder why more serious crimes can benefit from them while such innocuous behavior doesn’t.

  • Thedrone

    That sort of people are the real scumbags. Sharing is caring !

  • Zan

    18 years ago I drank there, great pub. However since the release of the new line cinema films they. Have blatently used the movies images for there own profit http://www.thehobbitpub.co.uk/ if they had stuck to their original fantasy Tolkienesque art then they wouldn’t be in the situation they are in now

    TO sum up remove the new line cinema art and you 20 years president would allow you to keep the name.

  • Disqus

    Tolkien was born in South Africa, not in England.

  • brian

    fuckin’ jews.

  • Pingback: Hollywood Lawyers Threaten ‘Hobbit’ Pub | Zombie Torrents - Ultimate Torrents Downloads

  • Pingback: === popurls.com === popular today

  • Joblow

    OH MY FUCKING GOD! What is this world coming to.

  • Nul

    Replace the sign with a nice big “Zued by Zaents” and let people keep calling it the hobbit unofficially. Let him try to sue all the customers individually…

  • Hobbit

    HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT HOBBIT

    Well…looks like 45×5 = 225 years. brb prison.

    • Moo

      “Nobody and I repeat nobody, is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle….and…I jwant to make this absolutely clear…even if they do say Hobbit”

  • Anonymous

    Huh wtf?!

    So this motherf*cker owns the word “Hobbit”. Basically saying any business with that name needs to be taken to court because he’s afraid people will think he endorsed it? Who the f*ck is this motherf*cker anyway. Didn’t know of his name until I read this article.

    This stupid old fart and his band of lawyers need to dig their own graves and lay there already.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ValhallaLegend Andrew Lee

    O_o Hollywood is a bunch of fucking muppets. Ever since they bribed our government into putting the smack down on MU their demands just keep getting more ridiculous.

    If it keeps going the way they want it I’m sure they will have a gag order on us all. It would not surprise me if they just go ahead and try to copyright the English vocabulary all together.

  • Mooosey

    they can’t bring that case to court, it will be laughed out, tossers

  • AVG_GUY

    FOR ALL CANADIANS BETTER READ THIS! We are going to have it worse then Americans.

    http://www.michaelgeist.ca/con

    The Bill C-11 committee has just opened the clause-by-clause review of the copyright bill with 39 amendments on the table: 8 from the goverment, 17 from the NDP, and 14 from the Liberals. The good news is that the misinformation campaign on issues such as fair dealing, user generated content, consumer provisions, statutory damages, and Internet provider liability has largely failed as the government is not proposing significant changes to those provisions. These all represent good compromise positions that will likely remain intact.

    Unfortunately, the digital lock provisions will also remain largely unchanged as the government is not proposing to link circumvention to copyright infringement (both the NDP and Liberals will put forward such amendments). The music and movie lobby are getting one of their demands as the enabler provision will be expanded from targeting sites “primarily designed” to enable infringement to providing a service primarily for the purpose of enabling acts of infringement. The CIMA demand for an even broader rule has been rejected as has calls to add statutory damages to the provision.

    A summary of some of the proposed amendments, by party (note: subject to possible change should a party decide not to introduce the amendment):

    Conservatives

    change enabler provision to providing a service primarily for the purpose of enabling acts of infringement

    a slight tightening of the private purposes copying exception and the time shifting exception by limiting to the specific individual

    a new limitation on computer interoperability exception that restricts the use or disclosure of the information reproduced for the purposes of making the programs interoperable

    a new limitation on disclosure of security flaws that requires advance notice to the copyright owner unless it is in the public interest to have it disclosed without such notice

    a change to the network provider safe harbour that allows for extraction of meta-data

    a limitation on the injunction power against information location tool providers

    • AVG_GUY

      Everyone welcome Canada soon to all this mayhem and future headlines news on Torrent Freak.

  • B6510963

    I wish someone would teach these lawyers and greedy assholes some manners. And by that I mean kick their ass. I wonder how these people function in polite society without witholding or misrepresenting what exactly they do for a living in conversation.
    … oh yeah.. money.

  • Mrt049

    What if they just add an extra T so it reads “Hobbitt”. Same name, different spelling, no infringment right? I would just spray paint an extra shitty looking t on there to rub it in their faces.

    • http://twitter.com/Mathew30 Mathew Lisett

      no because like other cases before it, if people did do this they could be used for misleading or taking a name within the spelling. bloody stupid but its happened

  • Anon

    They should change the spelling to “Hobbet” or some other such different spelling just to thumb their noses at these fucking greedy assholes. Afaik, they can’t possibly copyright every single spelling of a single word. This is just shameful and unacceptable.

  • ZenicReverie

    So many people suggesting they’ll download the movie instead of buying it.

    Why does no one mention the alternative? Ignoring the movie, not watching, not discussing, and giving no word of mouth for it.

    Just because you didn’t pay to watch the movie doesn’t mean some mate of yours you discuss it with won’t just because you brought it up. Maybe someone will buy it for you if you talk about it.

    • http://profiles.google.com/zerianis10 Christopher Kidwell

      Not going to happen. Again, we are N O T going to miss out on culture just because some of these makers are fuckwits.

      • traedmark

        Well.. “culture” is what we decide “culture” to be. If we decide whatever it is this producer does is irrelevant, then it’s not culture. It’s just irrelevant.

        And, honestly, I’d rather miss out on some things, if the alternative is to keep supporting people like the one described in this article.

  • Anonymous

    Words and text should NOT be allowed to be copyrighted.

  • Anonymous

    WHATEVA! I do what I want!

  • optional

    THE FUCK

  • http://twitter.com/JFBD Joseph Duffy

    Nope. Nothing to do with torrents. Is this a legal blog now, or just about anything related to MPAA?

    • Anyone

      anything related to the copywrong monopoly

  • Jamesvca

    Just change the name to “Hobbitt” instead of “Hobbit” and tell the MPAA to F/O

  • Hobbitlandia

    Looks like a daycare in Chicago called “Hobbit Land” closed in January: http://www.yelp.com/biz/hobbit-land-chicago

    Not sure why, but wouldn’t be surprised if they were sued.

  • Pingback: Hobbit Trademark Battle of the Day - TDW Geeks

  • Anonymous

    Everyone here should make a point to pirate The Hobbit when it comes out. Also then go onto IMBD and down vote it, go onto Youtube and down vote the trailer. Also hope Anonymous will take action against the Saul Zaentz Company.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ValhallaLegend Andrew Lee

      LOL I wouldn’t have that filth on my hd if my life depended on it.

  • http://7-books.net/ SleepyJohn

    Didn’t Green Day write a song about this man?

    I wonder if he also walks round town ripping down all the posters advertising his movies?

  • Pingback: Hobbitses Under Attack » ?LEMINHEAD

  • Anonymous

    Its worrying that people here see this as a subject for interpretation of the law and debate. That story was fucking sick and there should be no room for these kinds of things to happen period.

  • NAJ

    Copyright laws stifle creativity and innovation.

  • Desu75

    Not surprising. Bars can’t even use the term “Superbowl” in any advertisement. They have to use “The Big Game.” To me that really stifles free speech since they are paying to show the game anyways. It’s not like they are stealing anything. I can see why with The Hobbit pub because it’s the name of the place and despite its origins, it’s trademarked.

  • Rab

    If you check Google’s Ngram Viewer, you can see that the origin of the word “hobbit” dates back to a book published in 1808.

  • AVGN Junior

    As bad as that woman a year ago or two years ago hosting a “Harry Potter” themed dinner? Someone should send the 360, PS3, Wii, and all the technophiles off into a rocket! Plus Bullywood too :) Seriously, this worlds dying slowly as ever now!

  • Microlodge

    I make the formally known H00881T houses featured above, and was told to change my website..delete my blog, remove the H word from Flickr and advise all my customers not to use the H word or they may be sued also. Shall I pack my shorts in preparation for extradition to LA???

  • Pingback: Hollywood Lawyers Threaten ‘Hobbit’ Pub | Emmashare

  • http://gene-poole.tumblr.com Gene Poole

    They all need to come together and get a decent lawyer to represent them.

    This is no different than the 80′s with Nintendo v Universal Studios over the rights to Donkey Kong. Universal didn’t own the rights to King Kong, and Saultz doesn’t own the rights to “Hobbit”. If it can be proven that, regardless of agreements made, that he can not own the rights in perpetuity throughout the universe to the term hobbit (and it seems it can), then QED.

  • tonyj

    Now I know who to sue for the stupid Ralph Bashki animation.

  • Anonymous

    [reply went wrong]

  • Anon

    Hopefully they can reach a settlement where the bar gets to keep the name but they must take down the copyrighted imagery from the movies. That seems fair.

  • Anonymous

    Okay, so everybody boycotts the cinemas when when the movie comes out, boycotts the DVD, then downloads movie illegally. Seriously.

    • Desu75

      I gotta see a Peter Jackson movie in 3D. Sorry.

  • Pingback: Anonymous

  • Pingback: MakinMo's Tech Blog

  • Johnny

    The only thing detrimental to the brand is Zaentz.

  • Pingback: Hollywood-advokater hotar stämma puben "The Hobbit" | Feber / Webb

  • The guy

    Notice how it was stated that even though millionaires also copy without authorization, hollywood prefers to go after the small fries, just because they can’t defend themselves in court, whereas the millionaires could easily do so.

    That is practically discrimination of the working class, just because they aren’t rich. Boycott hollywood and all of their ass kissers and loyal butt-fuck slaves.

  • Facts

    They’re disgracing JRR Tolkiens name.

  • Pingback: Abogados de la industria de Hollywood amenazan al bar "The Hobbit" por el uso indebido de su nombre

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Dilly/1624894683 Don Dilly

    I wonder if Zaentz is getting any royalties from youtube for this gem

    http://youtu.be/AGF5ROpjRAU

  • Mad Max

    Seems that Saul Zaentz is the original troll. He may have been behind some decent films but he gets his kicks out of sueing the hell out of anyone who dares to breathe in his presence, judging by the frequency he indulges in such practices.

    After all, this was the guy who sued Creedence Clearwater Revival singer and songwriter John Fogerty for , wait for it, “plagiarising himself”. DUH???!!!! Thank goodness he lost that case. Fogerty also wrote a song called Mr. Greed, no prizes for guessing who was the inspiration for that.

    Bottom of the line – is he J.R.R.Tolkien ? NO
    Did HE, Saul Zaentz, come up with those ideas or write those books? NO
    Is he, Saul Zaentz, making a fortune out of other people’s creations? YOU BET HE IS.

    So what’s his problem? He should be be really happy cos he’s dancing on other people’s graves. Why is he such a mean-spirited, miserable little shit? Beats me.

  • http://twitter.com/MordecaiWalfish John Bedri

    One of the very best resturants I have ever had the pleasure of eating at was named “The Hobbit” and is near Nags Head, NC iirc.

    Why doesnt a party with some dignity that would at least try to represent the franchise on the behalf of the creator and not on the behalf of hollywood have ownership of tolkein’s works? Because he had enough money at the right time? Whats he doing with it? It’s just an investment to him and nothing more, so why is he the owner again?

    I would expect a more noble nature from the Tolkien estate.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/D7S2CHS5PJWK4CJTBIR45VRCKA Keith

    This Saul Zaentz guy is also 91. He probably be dead by the time the movie comes out.

  • Ricky

    When this guy’s film comes out, don’t expect me to pay money for it – The Pi**te Bay was designed for people like this lowlife. I’m sorry I bought the LOTR films now, but I won’t make the same mistake again. I might give them to a charity shop.

  • Beyond The Black Stump

    Follow up to this story…

    http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movie-stars-help-save-hobbit-pub/story-fn7mjoe2-1226302253945

    I love the quote from Fry:

    Fry added on Twitter this week, “Sometimes I’m ashamed of the business I’m in. What pointless, self-defeating bullying.”

  • Hobbit

    Saul better u not crossing with me at the streets mate….ill make u a dead hobbit

  • Pingback: How Adobe DRM Requires People to Pirate Library Books | TorrentFreak

  • BTGuard - BitTorrent Anonymously

NewsBits

Even more news...

  • Blu-ray Anti-Piracy Tech Stops Discs and Promotes Purchases

    An anti-piracy system present in all official Blu-ray players since 2012 has received a fresh update...

  • Foxtel Breeds Pirates by Locking Up Game of Thrones

    One of the main reasons why people turn to piracy is the lack of legal alternatives....

  • UK Student Admits Breaching Sony Copyrights With Leak of PS3 SDK

    Last year an Internet user known as El Nomeo leaked version 3.70 of Sony’s Playstation3 SDK...

  • Pirates Can Be Identified Despite Sharing IP Addresses, ISP Claims

    Carrier-Grade Network Address Translation is a network mechanism through which many Internet subscribers can share the...

  • Feds Seize Cash from Major Bitcoin Exchange’s Dwolla Account

    The U.S. Government has taken a significant action against the web’s top Bitcoin exchange by seizing...

MostDiscussed

Below are TorrentFreak's most discussed articles of the past month. Join the discussion if you like.

CopyQuote

Left Quote

“The Pirate Bay has been one of the most important movements in Sweden for freedom of speech, working against corruption and censorship.

Peter Sunde Left Quote

PopularArticles

A selection of some TorrentFreak's classics dug up from our archives.